Who can listen to 45 minutes of the CBC, even with the wonderful Hirsi as a guest?

Another anti-Christian CBC host....he cannot stand the idea of her standing up for Christianity, it's driving him nuts

Jian got biatched slapped as bad as little Commie Lewis did.
He'll be at aljazeera in no time.

All of my liberal friends berate me for my ideology. I hold Hirsi as my #1 hero and they dont even know who I am talking about most of the time.

She is beautiful, poised and inspirational and she scares the bejeesus out of ignorant Marxists.

I wouldn't be able to hold it together as calmly and politely as she did. She is a wonderful, intelligent, and courageous woman.

I watched her brilliant, polite and firm smack down of Commie Lewis and then watched her do the same to this clown. It would seem that she enjoys it. Probably in the back of her mind she is wondering "Ok which one of you clowns wants it next?" She is amazing.

Holy smokes, Cjunk. Your posting had been up here for only a few minutes and my sitemeter recorded three times as many hits as I normally get all day. SDA gets results. LOL! More please, sir.

Is that available on podcast?

Louise: Welcome to the power of SDA. I'll let you in on a little secret ... in the past, my site Celestial Junk, has been linked to by Malkin, Steyn, Frontpage, TownHall, Five Feet, a number of major Israeli News orgs, and Gateway Pundit ... none, yield as many hits as SDA. I don't think most people realize just how many readers Kate has.

I liked Jian when he was with Moxy Fruvous.

Since then..yeah, not so much.

As for Hirsi: In one word, amazing.

A really great discussion about Ayaan's political bent vs her insistence that she is more concerned about ideas starts at about 30:30.

The whole interview was excellent.
Thank you for posting it, Cjunk.

Cjunk @ 12:05 PM, it's Kate's pin-point precision in pointing out the hypocrisy of the left that does it. No one does a better job than Kate and in so few exquisitely chosen words.

Lewis, like so many liberals, has to pin her down on the political spectrum - the easier to dismiss her once she's been tarred with the "right wing" brush. Anyone who knows Ali well should be aware of how difficult that is, and that her position at the AEI is a marriage of convenience, so to speak, and one that Ali probably wouldn't have taken if the left wasn't so keen to repudiate her.

(Sorry - Ghomeshi, not Lewis.)

Jian Go-Mushy tried every angle, with absolutely no success, to slip in the PC cultural relativism excuses for the intrinsic islamic barbarism that most people are too cowardly to confront. Jian played the pseudo-intellectual water pistol to Hirsi’s calmly pragmatic fire hose. Picking up on one of the questions posed, I would like to see a debate on “What good things can Islam teach the West” with Hirsi and Mark Steyn on one side and anyone else on earth on the other.

Ghomeshi looked like he was trying to swallow broken glass during that entire interview.

I liked it.

I could listen to her all day. An amazing person.

Hirsi is a great lady. My wife just read her book and read excerpts to me. Jian Go-Mushy and Lewis are Marxist scum bags and their hate for anything on the right blinds them to the danger that radical Islam poses to western democracy.

The cultural left has so corrupted our society that radical Muslims are striking out to keep this moral rot from infecting their society and moderate Muslims keep quiet as they agree with the radicals in this regard, but are not yet ready to embrace the radical war.

I hope Louise doesn't mind but I'd like to repost a comment I just left on her site:

Thank you for posting the video, Louise. Coincidentally, an L.A. columnist named Amy Alkon just posted this other interview of her. As I said there, what Hirsi Ali is saying is of course true for anyone who has any semblance of Common Sense. But her views are diametrically opposed to the Left's "great" narrative that all cultures are absolutely equal. But dare question why cultures that support honour killing and female genital mutilation are equal to ours and you are deemed a bigot by the Left.

Which, by the way, raises an interesting side point: I fully agree with Dennis Prager's theory that most people who identify themselves to be "on the Left" or "liberals" actually are NOT. For if you were to discuss individual issues like this with them, they would adamantly disagree with the official Leftist position.

Therefore, what percentage of our population are actually truly Leftists? If it's more than 2 - 3% I'd be shocked. Will historians 100 Years from now look back and wonder how such a tiny minority of the population was able to seize control of the reins of power (political, academic, media) and steer it in such a destructive direction?

The modern liberal malaise in a nutshell: You cannot say that classical liberalism is better than sharia (or words to that effect). That's so ... ya know ... offensive; so provocative; so ... false!

At the 41 minutes mark Hirsi is asked if there is anything that can be learned from islam... It's all summed up there for the west, that she needs time to consider her response, that she needs to search for an answer for that one. I personally doubt if anything useful can be found in islam, perhaps as only a warning to the west, a lesson as to what may happen if this road is taken and that this road must be avoided at all costs.

Well worth the minutes Louise and Cjunk!!

Robert W. (Vancouver) at 12:55 PM, I don't own your comments, Robert. Feel free to take 'em anywhere you want. It's a good one, after all.

Whatever his own views, he asks her the "hard" questions that the liberal needs answered and allows her to make everyone of her points. I thought it was excellent. AHA is a treasure!

I thought I was too old for hero worship but this lady totally impresses me. I think of a young girl, not well-educated, simply leaping out of a culture she found oppressive even before she was able to articulate what what wrong with it. She simply didn't want to live her mother's life. I'm amazed at the learning and wisdom she has achieved. The interviewer really wasn't up to her weight. He thought he had the slap-down question and it fizzled before her cool, articulate and reasoned response. I've read Infidel and will be seeking Nomad.

Thanks for posting this.

And besides, a lot more people are going to see it here. LOL!

Another thing, I believe the phenomenon that you cite in your last paragraph explains the need the Liberal Party and their cronies feel they have to accuse conservatives of being unable to read or not owning books, and assorted other non-sense. I'd be willing to bet that man for man, woman for woman, conservatives are better educated that liberals, certainly the current crop in any case. IMHO, the Liberals have delivered themselves a real blow by posting that on their website.

Thanks, Louise. I don't often repeat such things but I do feel I made some important points, expanding out the subject much wider than just what Hirsi Ali is talking about.

One of the biggest problems I see in our society is that too many people don't own up to their views and are not held accountable for their views.

Example: Recently I got in a rather heated exchange with a Facebook "friend" about the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. She essentially was saying that all offshore drilling should be stopped. I asked her where she would prefer the oil come from should that happen. Her response: "All oil drilling in the world should be immediately stopped." This woman does not live in a cave. She's raising a family in Colorado, heats her home, drives a vehicle, and has lots & lots of items made out of plastic. Therefore such a statement is both irresponsible and hypocritical. I told her this and then removed her as a friend from FB. A little act on my part to be sure but at least I was doing my part to hold her responsible for her views.

I've long thought that public shunning is highly underrated! :-)

She is correct, islam has NOTHING to offer the West.

Robert W.@ 12:55

Nice comment; especially the insightful remark that the (post)modern left's notion of equality is driving their policy and practice.

But I think Prager's percentage wildly underestimates reality, unless he means by "true left" classical Marxism. The modern left---the postmodern left---is not your father's left: not classically Marxist. They are, instead, an unselfconscious, inconsistent brew of relativism and subjectivism on all important matters---from truth, to morality, to justice, to their conception of persons---, and they are politically of the totalitarian Marxist stripe. They dominate our most important institutions: our schools, our universities, our media, our bureaucracies, thanks to Gramsci. That explains, for example, AliBama.

She works for a 'right wing' think tank? Isn't he rather blatantly showing his bias?

Alberta he works for a leftwing toughtless tank but that's not obvious to him.

She's awesome, yes we can learn from Islam-never surrender never cede to their Supremacists demands.

Nick, the 2 - 3% estimate I cited was mine, not Prager's. It's based completely on people in my life I've spoken with. Admittedly it's not a random sample but I really would be shocked to learn that it's more.

For example, imagine you & I were polling Canadians over the telephone:

Question #1: Do you believe that all cultures are equal?
a. Very much agree
b. Somewhat agree
c. Neutral or not sure
d. Somewhat disagree
e. Very much disagree

To this initial question I have no idea how most Canadians would answer but I bet there'd be a pretty high number answering 'a' or 'b'.

Question #2 (only ask if the respondent answered 'a' or 'b' to Question #1) : Since you agree that all cultures are equal then would it be correct to conclude that you also believe that female genital mutilation and honour killings are perfectly acceptable in those cultures that have them and Canadians should not be critical of such practices?
a. Very much agree
b. Somewhat agree
c. Neutral or not sure
d. Somewhat disagree
e. Very much disagree

This is where I believe that there'd be a long pause amongst a huge majority of Canadians as they fully understood, perhaps for the first time in their lives, what it actually meant to support the notion that "all cultures are equal".

Pollster instructions: If the respondent pauses for a long time or answers 'c', 'd', or 'e' to Question #2 then ask them if they would like to change their response to Question #1.

If a poll were conducted properly, allowing the respondent to indeed go back and change their earlier answers then I do believe that 97 - 98% of Canadians would state that they do not believe that all cultures are equal.

But since I have little faith in the motivations of polling clients, I doubt we'll ever know the actual figure!

Well into Hirsi Ali's book, Nomad, and it is another excellent read on her life and how she sees islam in America now that she lives there still under 24/7 guard. I feel that she is like a Cassandra in Troy with her warnings of how islam and its followers are becoming increasing more militant.

This is mostly due to Saudi money funding mosques throughout Europe and North America and stacking them with young firebrand imams. She reminds us that muslims are brainwashed since birth in their unchanging religion and it is an easy step to radicalism.

She writes: "I believe it would be a grave mistake to be complacent about islam in America."

Couple of paragraphs. Here she is writing about the difference of between the muslims coming to North America and the leftists/liberals that welcome them:

"One side wants change in their circumstances without letting go of tradition; the other, overcome with guilt and pity, want to help newcomers with the material change but cannot bring themselves to demand that they excise traditional, outdated values from their outlook."

This one covers how the young muslims through the mosques are taught the hardline islam that joins muslims of all countries into a fifth column and how they relate to American patriotism:

"Can you be a Muslim and and American patriot? You can if you don't care very much about being a muslim. If you squint and look away, you can avoid thinking about the very basic clashes between the submissive, collectivist values of islam and the individualist, libertarian values of the democratic West. Almost 50% of muslims consider themselves muslim first, American second. Only 28%, little more than a quarter, considered themselves Americans first.

Asked whether suicide bombing can be justified as a measure to defend islam, 26% of American Muslims age 18 to 29 said yes. With estimates between 2-8 million that is a lot of people."

Just a brilliant lady and a giant in reminding us of our hard fought for freedoms and how easily we can lose them. I would love to see her address our parliament.

Robert W. @ 2:47:

Right. Your two clever questions would indeed catch out the unsophisticated pomo liberal---probably a majority of them. And that would show the contradictions at the heart of their views.

But the clever pomo liberals---those who dominate our institutions---would not be troubled for an instant by your survey. They would say that your second question cannot be answered because it presumes an objective measure for cultures that does not exist. They might admit that WE, or many of US, would not approve of genital mutilation in Somalia, for example, but our (dis)approval is entirely subjective---culture-centric; merely an expression of our preferences, which themselves are based in nothing but our own psychology---and so cannot be used to measure another culture. Cultures are, as they like to say, incommensurable. So, it is not that all cultures are straightforwardly equal---that is, not all equally good. Rather, it is that there is no way to measure them, since the required objectivity is impossible (They, like most in the media, help themselves to the idea of the death of objectivity: that explains a lot. If no objectivity, then each of us is licensed to prefer our own views to others', irrespective of "evidence" or "logic" to the contrary.); and to think otherwise is myth, dangerous because it can be used by the imperialism-inclined among us---the unenlightened---to oppress others, to impose what are purely subjective preferences on others. Something like this is surely on the "minds" of all those pomo feminists who refuse to criticize the barbaric treatment of women in sharia-run countries.

Cheers,

What this blog could learn from Gomeshi is how not to be a snearing twit when speaking to somebody who you may not agree with 100%. Remember... his job is to challenger her to explain her views.

I know that's hard to wrap your heads around, since you think the purpose of news and commentary is to simply allows the people you support to spread their views, but that's why conservatives are taken in by snake oil salesmen like Palin who afraid of answering real questions.

John @ 3:31:
P*ss off!

Dear John,

Welcome from your cozy world of CBCNews.com. Though you've decided to smear every commenter prior to you with one brush, all I can do is respond for myself.

I agree that an interviewer should challenge his guest as best s/he can. But what became very clear is that Gomeshi's brain seemed ready to explode as he tried so desperately to get Ali to change her views simply because said views were inline with those of many conservative pundits. She did not and I applaud her for that.

If she wanted to be mean she could have asked Gomeshi why he provides de facto support & cover for those kill innocent women and mutilate the genitals of other women without any consent.

Which brings to mind an obvious question: Being a Proud Member of the Left that you've implied you are, why do you support such cruelty in the world?

John at 3:31 PM: "What this blog could learn from Gomeshi is how not to be a snearing twit when speaking to somebody who you may not agree with 100%."
===============
Actually, what "this blog" (sic) could learn is:

1) How to spell "Ghomeshi"

2) How to spell "sneering"

# 2 is particularly curious, seeing as how the little box where you write your comments actually highlights the misspelled words, giving the writer the opportunity to correct them.

So, Jian Ghomeshi is a Muslim? Interesting. He quickly makes a disclaimer that it's only the fact that it's the family he was born into that makes him a Muslim, and seems to have nothing useful to say about the very serious claims Ayan Hirsi Aly makes about the mistreatment of women on the part of many Muslims and how this abuse is justified by Islam/the Koran. 'Talk about slipping under the wire. 'Not an impressive display.

It was instructive, and not at all surprising, to see the knots Hirsi Aly tied him in! He started out oh, so sure of his snotty self and his condescending opinions of his "right wing" guest, and ended up being lassoed by Hirsi Aly's calm, her coolness, and her reasoning skills -- neither "left" nor "right," as she was at pains to point out) which left him hog-tied with a stupid, lop-sided grin on his face.

It's ironic, though, isn't it: that it takes a young Somali woman, with no prior experience in the West, to be able to see, and have the courage to say, that the anti-Christian Emperor/Empress of the Western Chattering Class has no clothes?

It is not lost on her that it is Christianity (a "developed religion" which is "enlightened" and "friendly"!) that stands in the gap between Western Civilization and barbarity.

Would that those of us who have for centuries been the beneficiaries of Christian largess could be as clear-seeing, as clear-thinking, and as courageous as Ayan Hirsi Aly.

Hey there John, could it be that you also could learn from Gomeshi is now not to be a "snearing twit when speaking to somebody you may not agree with 100%"? Anyhow, Gomeshi, like most modern progressives, doesn't realize that he is a fundamentalist. So Hirsi Ali pretends not to understand his objections to "what if THEY" (i.e., your friends and colleagues at the AEI and their kin) exploit your ideas? Who, do you mean, she says, the KKK? So what? Wouldn't that be good since my ideas are liberal? Poor pitifully and badly educated Jian. If he had a clue he'd be fired.

John at 3:31 PM: "Remember... his job is to challenger her to explain her views."
==========
His job, John, is to toe the CBC Liberal Leftie line by completely misconstruing and misrepresenting what it is to be conservative. His assumption that the American Enterprise Institute = a bastion of evil is right from the Little Red Liberal Leftie Book.

I'll bet you not more than a tiny handful of Little Red Liberal Leftie Book readers have ever even visited the AEI's website, let alone read any of their literature or watched any of their videos. They have no idea what conservative principles are and that pretty much applies to most of the talking heads at Mother Corpse, too.

Moxy Fruvous... that takes me back.
John, do grow up. A clever commentator or reporter is able to absorb ALL the facts and deal with them. As many here have pointed out, Jian Ghomeshi appeared uncomfortable the whole time Ayaan Hirsi Ali spoke. She is articulate, gentle-spoken and- well- right. Muslim and leftist apologists have difficulty dealing with people like Miss Ali because she is so spot-on and unafraid.

She's a very special person, that's for sure...a true champion of the individual. Somalia, and in fact all nations, certainly needs more people like her. What courage to stand up for new ideas and to challenge deeply re-enforced culture.

I think she ignores, or is ignorant of, the influence that western nations have, historically and presently, on middle east social, political, financial institutions, and thereby misses the fact that while western nations have allowed their own culture/religion/social structure to progress, they have stalled and sometimes reversed the same progress in other nations, namely in the middle east and africa.

I don't agree with her stance on Christianity in regards to being an 'enlightened' alternative for Islam...religion PERIOD is a problem and outdated human creation. It is certainly not christianity that supports western societies enlightenment.

I think some would do well to listen to her stance on left vs right...that it ignores ideas in exchange for grouping people.

I don't understand how anyone can think Jian got his 'ass handed to him'...it was a very relaxed interview for the most part.

@grok

If you want it as a podcast, use this link:

http://www.video2mp3.net/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D4jisYWdj_HU%26feature%3Dplayer_embedded

it will give you the audio as an mp3 file. I got the link from the Firefox plugin 'Youtube to MP3', it puts in video and audio download links automatically for youtube videos. Home page for plugin here:

http://www.video2mp3.net/

What an asshole interviewer! Oh yeah. It's CBC. He couldn't care less about the women she was talking about who are beat and murdered on a daily basis. All he wanted to do was make her look like a "right wing" pawn or some kind of a traitor to her past. She was wonderful. I would not have been so kind to this shithead.

Now I have to go shower. That much CBC will take a while to wash off.

The CBC announcer dork can't wrap his head around Hirisi's contention that you can -measure- the success of a society. Every time she says it, he looks like his brain is going to explode.

That's why I cave up on Anthropology back in 1979. Every time I suggested we might want to measure something, guys would get this glassy look and start arguing with me.

His mind is completely trapped in a box. I should pay money to employ people like that? I'm thinking NO.

I agree that we should expose Muslims to Christianity. A Muslim friend and I have been reading the NT together, and that friend loves it... and has remarked, "Everybody should be reading the Bible"

A few thoughts - Ayaan Hirsi Ali - so calm, so cool, so smooth, so rational, God I could never do what she does, - apparently specializes in handing to themselves the balls, such as they are, of spoiled smirking Canadian lefty CBC-type brats.

Ali is wonderfully brave. She lives under a genuine threat of death 24/7.

Ali is ridiculously beautiful (it's just true. Somali cheekbones are one of the great achievements of the human genome).

Ali scored poorly on an IQ test. I can't find the link, or be bothered, but it's findable. Just in case you idolize that kind of thing. She doesn't strike me as dumb.

She is (largely) correct - i.e. agrees with me - about the definition of the Left/Right divide re. conservatism etc. @31:25-36:10 - it's important.

Listen to 12:20-12:40 again - also important.

Ghomeshi giggles/snorts/smirks like an insecure nerd. He's the Jimmy Fallon of the CBC (to whom he bears a physical remarkable resemblance BTW). I'll give him this: I do prefer him to Avi Lewis.

...remarkable physical?...

Bold

Brave

Brilliant

BTJ @ 5:26 P> M.: " ... religion PERIOD is a problem and outdated human creation ,,,"

OH. GIVE. ME. A. BREAK.

When I totally rejected Christianity, G*d came knocking at my door. I didn't create my relationship with Him, and I wasn't high on anything. No drugs. No alcohol. But, I started walking down a different road away from the me-me-me fork in the road I'd been travelling into the how-can-I-help roadway.

A world without "religion."

Hmmm. Let's try to picture it: All of our museums and art galleries 3/4s empty; all of our opera houses and concert halls, more than half empty; hospitals and schools built only for those who believe what you believe; and who would feed and clothe the hungry and poor? You, BTJ?

If we relied on the government, rather than clothing depots, food banks, in from the heat/cold programs run by volunteers in Christian churches, we'd run out of bureauacratic resources. Government-run programs cost ten times what church-run outreaches cost.

If the Church WAS a "human creation" it wouldn't/couldn't have lasted over 2000 years. Let me assure you, BTJ, that Holy Spirit power exists (even if Ali doesn't believe it!). It's the energy the Church runs on. To say that religion is an outdated human creation reveals a rather breathtaking naivety, ignorance, and arrogance, all at once.

Aayan Hirsi Ali, even though she is a non-believer, recognizes the benefits of Christian belief and believers to the world and doesn't denigrate them. In fact, she applauds them. She is clear that no moral equivalency exists between Christianity and Islam and the cultures they have cultivated despite what our multi-culti, equality czars insist on telling us.

Lamentably, Phantom, you are entirely correct about Anthro. I went through university about the same time you did. Like now, it was all about trying to understand a culture under study on its own terms. Almost inevitably that meant two things: disdain for any sort of quantification, and a tendency to 'go native'.

It may be nothing more or nothing less than a variation of The Stockholm Syndrome.

Well I partially agree with BTJ. The human created religion, secular humanism is by far and away the worst religion. Of course it would be followed by Islam but at least Islam admits to a greater power than self.

"OH. GIVE. ME. A. BREAK."

No, there are enough 'breaks' given out these days...there's never a true philosophy, it's always some middle ground where some things are ok and other's aren't, based on subjective guidelines.

"When I totally rejected Christianity, G*d came knocking at my door. I didn't create my relationship with Him, and I wasn't high on anything. No drugs. No alcohol. But, I started walking down a different road away from the me-me-me fork in the road I'd been travelling into the how-can-I-help roadway."

Good for you, how does that legitimize religion Christianity again?

"Let's try to picture it: All of our museums and art galleries 3/4s empty"

You can't change history, if there was no religion I'm sure people would have found something to inspire works of art.

"all of our opera houses and concert halls, more than half empty"

Huh?

"hospitals and schools built only for those who believe what you believe"

Where's the logic behind this?

"who would feed and clothe the hungry and poor?"

I hope they would be able to feed and clothe themselves. There are more poor and hungry people than at any point in human history...what exactly has religion accomplished in this respect?

"If we relied on the government, rather than clothing depots, food banks, in from the heat/cold programs run by volunteers in Christian churches,"

Why do you have to be connected with a religion to perform charity work?

"If the Church WAS a "human creation" it wouldn't/couldn't have lasted over 2000 years."

It IS A HUMAN CREATION. Why couldn't it last for 2000 years+? Does that mean that anything that has lasted for 2000 year of human history is 'God Created'?

"To say that religion is an outdated human creation reveals a rather breathtaking naivety, ignorance, and arrogance, all at once."

I think not my friend. It was the transcendence beyond faith that has created the world around you.

"recognizes the benefits of Christian belief and believers to the world and doesn't denigrate them"

I wouldn't quite go that far, she said that for those people WHO MUST KEEP BELIEVING IN GOD, Christianity is the path she would send them on...basically it's the better of two evils.

BTJ

You may think "religion is a problem and outdated human creation" but majority of people on Earth would disagree.

You may also ask yourself why so many Europeans convert (they call it "reverting") to Islam. It is because people like you tried to tell them that Christianity is outdated, not fit for progressive thinking European people. They believed it but still felt need to believe - and that's why they are converting to Islam.
Religion is not dead, is not outdated, is not unfit to modern humanity. It is only some liberals/socialists in Brussels, in Canada, in States think so. But they are in minority.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali recognized the need majority of humans have for religion, for something better then themselves to believe in.

Some people can live without believing in something better then themselves. Majority can not. And that is why the religion is not outdated, and will not be outdated regardless of your thought on the subject.
****
BTW Ayaan Hirsi Ali is great!!!!

"You may think "religion is a problem and outdated human creation" but majority of people on Earth would disagree. "

The majority of people on Earth also don't do anything to advance human progress. The majority of people on earth are poor and live in developing or third world nations.

"You may also ask yourself why so many Europeans convert (they call it "reverting") to Islam. It is because people like you tried to tell them that Christianity is outdated, not fit for progressive thinking"

No it's not...because I would tell them to forget religion period. It's because they feel an urge to belong to a group and therefore identify themselves with a collective.

"for something better then themselves to believe in. "

How does that benefit them or humanity? Do you think Einstein made his achievements by believing in something BETTER than himself?

"Do you think Einstein made his achievements by believing in something BETTER than himself?"
As a matter of fact - yes.
He probably wanted to be closer to God, and to be closer to God one have to work to unveil the rules for HIS creation. And to unveil the rules for HIS creation one has to see what Universe is made of. (aka learn real science - physics, and make scientific discoveries).
Q.E.D.

btw. Einstein DID believe in God.

"As a matter of fact - yes.
He probably wanted to be closer to God, and to be closer to God one have to work to unveil the rules for HIS creation. And to unveil the rules for HIS creation one has to see what Universe is made of. (aka learn real science - physics, and make scientific discoveries).
Q.E.D.

btw. Einstein DID believe in God."

I think not:

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
—Albert Einstein

Einstein: "I want to know God's thoughts... the rest are details."

There are quotes ........and then there are quotes

I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings.
Albert einstein.

Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish.
Albert Einstein

God always takes the simplest way.
Albert Einstein

I shall never believe that God plays dice with the world.
Albert Einstein

God may be subtle, but he isn't plain mean.
Albert Einstein

I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation and is but a reflection of human frailty.
Albert Einstein

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
Albert Einstein

That deep emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God.
Albert Einstein

I want to know all Gods thoughts; all the rest are just details.
Albert Einstein

True religion is real living; living with all one's soul, with all one's goodness and righteousness.
Albert Einstein

We should take care not to make the intellect our god; it has, of course, powerful muscles, but no personality.
Albert Einstein

Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.
Albert Einstein

Anger dwells only in the bosom of fools.
Albert Einstein

It's clear that Ayaan Hirsi Ali, from personal experience and observation, recognizes and appreciates the benefits of the Christian faith over the millennia, whereas the benefits of Islam, she's going to have to think about.

She's given them both a lot of thought. It's pretty clear that from what she has seen and experienced of the Christian faith and the Western democracies which are founded on Judeo-Christian principles, there's no contest WHERE AND WITH WHOM she'd prefer to spend her time.

Just because you call G*d a "human creation," BTJ, doesn't mean that He is. You've got politically correct, secular humanist thought on your side, championed by our chattering classes at this point in history, but that doesn't mean you're right. In fact, it rather suggests that you're following the crowd, which is easy.

Hey, break out of your politically correct mind set! See what abundant life is all about! You'll be glad you did!

BTJ, you may reject the fairytales which come as part of the package in almost all religious beliefs. You may reject the big bogeyman in the sky with a big white beard who speaks in a booming voice, and who parts the sea and smites people with lightning bolts, etc. etc., but those are man-made depictions.

Rejecting man made depictions is all very fine and good, but that does not mean there is no god simply because you can't accept any of those offered up via the frailty of human conceptual and perceptual capacity. To declare triumphantly that there is no God is to declare to know the unknowable, which makes you look sort of foolish, like a child having a tantrum. It's like declaring we have seen the finite limits of the universe and have determined there is no more to see or learn.

Louise, batb, ella and Joe @ 9:05, those are all great comments and rebuttals. BTJ's ideological Soviet soul-mates tried, with threats, imprisonment, labour camp terms and executions, for 70 years to make atheists out of the Russian people and they failed. Hundreds of cathedrals that Lenin and Stalin tore down have been rebuilt to original specifications and they are full of young and old people.

Haha...how did I know a spate of einstein quotes would come.

""I want to know God's thoughts... the rest are details.""

He said he doesn't believe in a personal god...I think he's implying here that he wants to know the universe.

"I believe in Spinoza's God"

Do you know what Spinoza's God is?

"Spinoza believed God exists only philosophically and that God was abstract and impersonal"

"Hey, break out of your politically correct mind set! See what abundant life is all about! You'll be glad you did!"

Huh? Saying that God is a human creation is far from politically correct. I've been very close to the Christian faith, it is in my family , I've never been able to feel and see life more than I do now.

"but that does not mean there is no god simply because you can't accept any of those offered up via the frailty of human conceptual and perceptual capacity."

I believe that there is a divine power, however, giving it a three letter word for a name and believing that it is better than you is not compatible with that belief. I believe that this divine power can never be explained by something as relatively simple as human language.

Ken (Kulak), you're unstable my friend.

Has anyone ever heard the phrase "left wing think tank" on CBC?
And his s-h-u-d-d-e-r at having to mouth the words AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE was palpable.
LOL. Kinda reminds me about how lefties would "win" an argument by just saying "Rove" or "Cheney" or "Wolfowitz", people beyond the pale of decent society.

And notice, the hand gestures, shoulder risings, and the ... sighs ... on some of the questions, esp. his barely concealed disgust at her letter to her grandmother.

I found the interviewer to be very insincere. I chuckled at his bald lie that he "enjoyed the interview". No, he didn't. It was torture for him, and he knew to the core of his being that he was fabulously outclassed.

As Black Mamba says, AHA is "ridiculously beautiful" and what grace, what class.

When she spoke about the urgent need for western feminists to help muslim women, I was reminded of when I loaned Infidel to my very smart, liberal feminist Chinese-Canadian hairstylist only to receive it back at my next appointment -- without a single comment. I demured 'cos I try to keep politics out of that relationship.

BTJ, no doubt you have the perfect cure.

Although it is from last year, I think you may find this book review useful. The author comes from a Muslim perspective and reviews her works. The link is here ... it is good to hear other opinions and ideas.

http://www.alhamdulilah.info/2008/11/defending-our-diin-ayaan-hirsi-ali.html

Hope you find it interesting.

Stockholm syndrome, could be. I think it also includes a healthy does of Margaret Mead worship and intellectual laziness. Measuring stuff requires that you learn mathematics. Anthropology was one of those places people went to -avoid- mathematics but still do "science".

Frankly I did not do well at mathematics, its not one of my strengths. But you know, one can always hire a statistician, physicist or other propeller heads to help with study design.

Instead, the whole discipline shunned the scientific method altogether and embraced Foucaultian deconstructioniist magical thinking instead. Result, our cranially challenged friend at the CBC there.

It is to barf.

BTJ, you obviously have no idea what I or others are talking about. Too bad.

I see no evidence that Ken (Kulak)'s not stable. But I'm not surprised you'd take that view of someone who agrees with those with whom you disagree. From his comments here, I know that many of his family lived -- and died -- through the horror of Communism.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali agrees with you: that there is no G*d, but with eyes wide open, she's observed, and had the guts to say it, that countries with Christian antecedents and where G*d is worshiped treat women far better and uphold human rights and freedoms, which is something that doesn't happen in either G*dless countries or where G*d is the Muslim G*d. Logically, she asks why is it that immigration's always a one-way street, from the East to the West? Why aren't Westerners immigrating to Muslim countries? Open your eyes, BTJ. There's a reasonable answer and G*d's part of it.

When you've lived in a G*dless country and suffered the consequences, BTJ, come back and tell us there is no G*d and that unbelief's improved the lives of the people who live there.

Thanks batb. I shudder to think that BTJ would subscribe to an ideology and would consider that I and others who think like me should be added to the list of familial victims.

Re: the CBC interview:
Ghomeshi implied (or stated? I listened late last night) that the Candaian lefty feminists will not speak out in defence of Muslim women who are victims of abuse due to 'cultural respect'..??!!
And that is ok...?!
What a tool...
If that is true, and evidence proves it is so,then it also re-inforces my claim that NA feminists have never been interested in equality for women. Their real agenda is to attack the Judeo-Christian model for marriage and family.
Period.
Ghomeshi could not get past his lefty ideals to consider the fact that a right wing (his words) think tank stood up for women.
AHA as usual had excellent responses.

"you obviously have no idea what I or others are talking about. "

Riiight.

"I see no evidence that Ken (Kulak)'s not stable."

"BTJ's ideological Soviet soul-mates tried, with threats, imprisonment, labour camp terms and executions, for 70 years to make atheists out of the Russian people and they failed"

Insinuating that organized religion is the antithesis to Soviet Russia is ridiculous...state enforced atheism IS an organized religion in itself...it's still a collective identity.

"that countries with Christian antecedents and where G*d is worshiped treat women far better and uphold human rights and freedoms, which is something that doesn't happen in either G*dless countries or where G*d is the Muslim G*d"

Correlation does not guarantee causation...there are many countries where Christianity is practiced and women are not treated fairly...it is the loosening of religion from society and politics that makes way for western freedoms.

"Why aren't Westerners immigrating to Muslim countries?"

Why aren't Westerners immigrating East at all? Aside from the benefits available in Western nations, because the East is never portrayed as anything but undesirable.

"I shudder to think that BTJ would subscribe to an ideology "

That's just it...I DON'T subscribe to an ideology...I don't subscribe to a group identity...I don't need some prescribed doctrine, some collectivist thought to guide my spiritual life.

Kidz, Kidz, Kidz:

The reason it's pointless to get involved in an Atheism vs. Religion debate is because it has heretofore been impossible to DEFINITELY PROVE one's beliefs either way.

With that said, I fully respect every religious person's view, as long as their religion is not forcefully violating other people's human rights. (Note: I rarely use those last two words without quotes but it's most appropriate here.)

I have no respect for Atheism for one simple reason: The belief system is completely flawed by one simple question - "If there is no higher power out there then how did we get everything we see around us today?" The instant response to this most of the time is, "The Big Bang". But that's insufficient, for what existed before this grand event? It all comes down to the simple fact that you can't get matter and/or energy from nothing. But yet we all exist. So there's clearly something more going on that none of us are capable of understanding. The fact that atheists refuse to deal with this salient point not only illustrates their lack of intellectual curiosity but also completely disqualifies their belief system.

As for me, I was raised as a Roman Catholic but long ago fell away from the church. I fully respect and appreciate the beliefs of my many Christian friends but I have to be true to myself. And in my heart & in my head I can't honestly say that I'm convinced that God is an older gentleman with a white beard, that we only have one life on Earth, and that after this life we either go to Heaven or Hell. God Bless those who truly believe all of this - and they may very well be 100% correct - but it just doesn't sit quite right with me at this juncture in my life.

'Good point, bluetech.

'Funny, that North American feminists don't extend their "cultural respect" to Christians and women who take their husband's names, stay home to care for their child(ren), and have a fundamental objection to abortion as a "solution" to problem pregnancies.

You're absolutely right. The reason they don't extend "cultural respect" to Christians and women who see merit in "traditional" roles for women is that their agenda is to smash the Church and the one-man-one-woman family unit, all the better to forward their androgynous Utopian agenda.

(Where Ayaan Hirsi Ali's argument falls down, is her not understanding the deeper, anti-family, anti-Christian, agenda of the extremist, radical feminists -- the "official feminists" who, in the past, have had all the government money to hawk their agenda. She would call herself a feminist and is flummoxed as to why North American feminists don't come to the aid of Muslim women who are systemically abused. I suspect these feminists are not just being culturally sensitive and don't come to Muslim women's aid a) because they're cowards and don't want to stir up the ire of often-violent Muslim men and b) because they don't go along with most Muslim women's comfort level being in the home and caring for their kids. They also must know that Muslim women and men are vehemently against abortion -- which is one of the litmus tests you have to pass to get any empathy, sympathy, or support from them.)

In the meantime, Jian Ghomeshi and his CBC overlords are useful idiots to spread the G*dless, propaganda.

BTJ's drunk the Utopian Kool-Aid.

OK, BTJ. Proof please. Specifics.

" ... it is the loosening of religion from society and politics that makes way for western freedoms."

"If there is no higher power out there then how did we get everything we see around us today?"

Why does their have to be a 'higher power'? What does a higher power even mean?

"The fact that atheists refuse to deal with this salient point not only illustrates their lack of intellectual curiosity but also completely disqualifies their belief system."

Atheism deals with it, it just doesn't relegate some undefined, unknowable 'higher power' to the creator of all. There are forces all around us that create what we see...the 'electrical' charge of atoms is responsible for much of life's processes.

"OK, BTJ. Proof please. Specifics."

America was founded on the separation of church and state...this was a loosening of religion from society and politics no? This opened the way for freedoms never before realized, which gave people the ability to create and spread ideas..which gave rise to the most profound advancement in human history.

ET...you were right again about BTJ...high school, only, and lacking in history lessons.
BTJ dear...the seperation of church and state was mandated to protect the Church from the State(Crown). It was incorporated in response to serious infringements on the people's right's and freedom to worship.
So you are half right. That freedom ..."which gave people the ability to create and spread ideas..which gave rise to the most profound advancement in human history."

Thanks for that...

BTJ, I've got to assume you're young or just an ignorant older person.

"America was founded on the separation of church and state...this was a loosening of religion from society and politics no?"

How embarrassingly ignorant. No. America was not founded on the separation of church and state. Its Declaration of Independence says

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

In their Bill of Rights, they further stated regarding religion:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

As you can see, religion is not prohibited, nor is freedom of assembly or freedom of expression thereof. Separation of church and state simply meant that there would be no "established" religion as there was in Britain, the country from which they were declaring their independence.

Your argument is based on sand and the secular humanist Kool-Aid (aka lies) you've been fed in your Canadian "education."

Back to school, BTJ. Do your homework!

"There is no pleasure to had in a battle of wits with an unarmed man."

nix the name calling and stick to the topic or I'll start scrubbing.

It tells me something when people can't refrain from making assumptions, calling names, hurling insults, basing arguments on empty claims of ignorance. Keep up the good work ya'll.

"the seperation of church and state was mandated to protect the Church from the State(Crown). It was incorporated in response to serious infringements on the people's right's and freedom to worship."

It doesn't matter what the reasoning behind it was...it was the separation of Church from State that set the stage for freedom to pursue ideas and to create. In the old world the Church ruled, you go against the organized religion in power and feel the wrath..no room for 'ideas', the only ideas you could express were to be found in the bible.

""Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Ya, so separation of church and state! What are you trying to prove?

"As you can see, religion is not prohibited, nor is freedom of assembly or freedom of expression thereof."

I didn't say it was! Stop creating strawmen to argue with.

"Separation of church and state simply meant that there would be no "established" religion as there was in Britain, the country from which they were declaring their independence."

Uh, no, separation of church and state means just that, a secular state, two separate entities...unlike the old world where they were one (church ruled).

"It doesn't matter what the reasoning behind it was..."

Yes it does...that would be a pillar of your argument.
And it just crumbled.

"Yes it does...that would be a pillar of your argument."

No it wasn't...I didn't make any claims as to the reasoning behind creating a secular state...I said that the separation of church and state BY DEFINITION is a loosening of religion from society and politics..which LEAD TO freedoms allowing creativity and ingenuity.

"America was founded on the separation of church and state...this was a loosening of religion from society and politics no? This opened the way for freedoms never before realized, which gave people the ability to create and spread ideas..which gave rise to the most profound advancement in human history."

You point out where I said differently.

G*d bless you, BTJ!

I have to agree with John at July 30, 2010 3:31 PM

I thought Jion did a bang-up job of interviewing. It's the job of an interviewer to challenge the interviewee and give her every chance to explain her position. This Jion did admirably. It's even more impressive when you consider that he works from a leftist viewpoint. How many other leftists would give Hirsi such a forum to air her views and promote her books?

Well Dirtman, so you admit that Jian (note the correct spelling) Ghomeshi is a leftist. So was Avi Lewis, a former CBCer who also interviewed Hirsi Ali. So is Anna Maria Tremonti. So is Robert Enright. So is Carol Off, and on and on and on.

If you can name for me an equal number of equally rabid personalities to the right side of the aisle who have had and continue to have long-standing prime-time shows on CBC radio or TV, I'd be happy to hear who they are and happy to conceed your point, if they too refer to any leftwing American think tank as though association with it is akin to a marriage with the devil.

And THAT was pretty much the main point in my post. The CBC is stacked top to bottom with left-wing ideologues whose primary message is anti-Conservatism and Anti-Americanism, without a shred of regard for accuracy and truth. And I, along with untold thousands of rightwinger, have to pay them to work against our values and ideals.

Just curious. How much time has CBC devoted to the Liberal Party's phony "Conservative Census Form"? How much time has CBC devoted to the LeCompte case (Cuba, the Trudeau's fav country and all that) in comparison to what they devoted to the Suaad Hagi Mohamud (very similar situation, but not associated with the sainted Trudeaus)?

It seems CBC is highly selective not just in what questions they ask, but in what stories they choose to cover. If it can't be worked up into an anti-Conservative or anti-American gold mine, then, pftt, pay it no mind.

Robert W., I read your remarks with some sympathy, but there are a couple of things you say that trouble me.

First, why do you think anyone wants you to believe that God is an elderly gentleman with a white beard? Or for that matter, that you get only one life on earth? I'm sure there are people who believe such things, and I expect that if it's really the closest you can get to understanding Christian teaching, then you can believe it and still be considered Christian. Being Christian is, after all, first and foremost about how you live your life; what you believe, though important, is secondary. But these beliefs you describe are not what the Church teaches and a serious Christian would not be expected to hold them.

Second and more seriously, do you really think that whether or not you should believe something is entirely a matter of whether it "sits well" with you? Shouldn't you believe the true and reject the false, believe the constructive and reject the destructive, believe love and reject hate, even if you have to invest in an intellectual ergonomic chair to manage it?

I hope I don't sound unkind, Robert. I wish you well.

funny how many of you speak strongly against islam (or liberalism, communism, etc). you seem to think truth and righteousness is locked in the box of conservative christianity. as if that's the be-all end-all. and many of you seem *so certain*.

I think all religions are equally stupid (more or less), but last i checked, it was christian crusader wars of aggression (iraq, afghan.), christians imposing judeo-christian law on countries they colonize and infiltrate, and christians who are less tolerant of others than islam. basically all the allegations muslims and islam are slandered with (sharia, jihad, intolerance).

here's the thing w hirsi ali: she had her clitoris chopped off. totally savage and evil. but her responding general worldview, is to manifest her justifiable anger towards her family by essentializing a religion that exists in the hearts of over a billion people from thousands of cultures in over 100 countries as if it was a single homogenous violent-jihad-sharia conspiracy cult. absurd!

PS Einstein did not believe in a religious god:
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
—Albert Einstein

SkepticalHumanist: You confuse Hirsi's attack on Islam, with an attack on Muslims. She fights for Muslims; she decries the doctrine. In fact, any thinking Western educated person should decry the doctrine of Muhammad ... it's barbaric.

Cjunk,
I'm pretty sure my argument emphasized "essentializing a religion". I'm not an advocate of Islam, but its analogous to Christianity. You can take all sorts of crazy verses in the Bible and use them to justify violence (eye for an eye, for EG), or use them to do whatever the hell you want with it, Its that ambiguous, and that's why it works so powerfully for so many people.

The issue, is whether Islam, and Muslims, by extension, embody this savage ideology she claims they do. All the radical aspects of it, are *cultural manifestations* created by human interpretation. And there is certainly not a "majority" of Muslims who adhere to a brutal and oppressive ideology, otherwise you would now see a full on war consisting of hundreds of millions of Muslims fighting back in the brutal and violent "jihad" way Hirsi Ali claims is so common.

FWIW jihad means "struggle" (to improve yourself). Some muslims interpret it as using violence. But what Hirsi Ali does is interpret it as aggressive violence, and that a majority of muslims adhere to her definition. This is wrong.

"an eye for an eye" is not a Christian teaching. It's from the Old Testament and is at odds with what Jesus taught: "Love your neighbour as yourself; do good to those who hate you; pray for your enemies."

Hmmm. What's equivalent in Islam?

As for "christians imposing judeo-christian law on countries they colonize and infiltrate" examples, please. Are you talking recently?

SkepticalHumanist: You can take all sorts of crazy verses in the Bible and use them to justify violence

Actually you can't if you are a Christian. Christianity is based on the New Testament, which is a pacifist book. Most quotation which advocate violence, like the one you used, are from the Old Testament, which was by and large nullified by the New Testament ... hence "old" and "new". Jesus even quoted the passage you used, and said that his "new" way is to turn the other cheek. The New Testament is a book that teaches love, peace, and redemption. Those who have exercised violence in the name of Christianity, could never find justification for doing so in Christian texts. Zero.

Dead thread, but...

SkepticalHumanist @4:38 - "here's the thing w hirsi ali: she had her clitoris chopped off. totally savage and evil. but her responding general worldview, is to manifest her justifiable anger towards her family by essentializing a religion that exists in the hearts of over a billion people from thousands of cultures in over 100 countries as if it was a single homogenous violent-jihad-sharia conspiracy cult. absurd!"

Yes, of course. She's not a brave, intelligent woman who has dedicated her life to fighting an ideologogy which she believes is a threat to civilization; she's just some hysterical bint with daddy issues. Thanks for clearing that up.

Louise - "Well Dirtman, so you admit that Jian (note the correct spelling) Ghomeshi is a leftist."

There's no question. All CBC personalities are leftists (with the possible exception of Rex Murphy). But Jian (note the correct spelling) Ghomeshi gave Hirsi an opportunity to air her views, and didn't try to talk over her or interrupt her comments. Kudos to him. How many other CBC hosts would do that? You can count them on one finger (the aformentioned Rex).