Teachers are evil and stupid.

I sisnt know the union had anything to do with placement of sudent teachers, other than agreeing to it at a high level.

I also thought accreditation of a university and specifically a teachers college was the Ministry of Education's job, solely.

Well I am glad the teachers union feels they can do this and have taken on public functions....great, so they wont mind when I show up to vote at the next union election.

I hate unions.

The OTF should be careful about kicking sand into the teeth of Mike Harris, whose governments pulled Ontario out of the economic dumpster unloaded by Bob Rae, and who continues to be politically well-connected.

Memories run deep. The next PC government in Ontario will/should HAMMER the OTF. A little Chris Christie would go a L-O-N-G way with voters.

Stephen: "I didn't know the union had anything to do with placement of sudent teachers, other than agreeing to it at a high level."

They don't. Mr Melatti continues, "We encourage the profession by encouraging teachers to do whatever we can to assist [the students] in their program. But at the same time, we can't compel them to do that."

So, the OTF isn't encouraging individual teachers to reject Nipissing student teachers. They're just illustrating the level of anger expressed by some teachers over this honorary doctorate plan.

But I've no doubt that others will continue to use this opportunity to bash the OTF and unions in general.

I retired from teaching (Sask) four years ago. I saw close hand how the STF would often stray into the political landscape, taking with it the presumed support of its membership. I found myself "supporting" all sorts of causes that I never signed up for, all because I was paying several hundred dollars a year to the STF to respresent me. Every year, resolutions were passed at conventions urging the government to do this or that--mostly on the extreme left of the spectrum. I would have been happy with an organization that negotiated salary and benefits and regulated some of the disputes among teachers or issues of ethics and accountability. But these weren't glamorous enough for some of the STF folks. I don't want to trash the STF. They stuck up for teachers way back when people like my dad made about $300 a year and struggled to collect even that much. But like any bureaucracy, it attracts empire builders who are only too happy to swing their weight around to achieve political and social power that has nothing to do with their mandate. The people they are supposed to represent become hostage to the ambition of power seekers. That is why I no longer join anything.

So what the letter says, is that there are teachers SO hateful and filled with impotent rage that they have take out their anger on the next generation of teachers.

Harris will come out of this looking like a Hero. If he and the university stay the course, they win for standing tough against bullying. If Harris backs down in order to protect the next generation of teachers, he's the magnanmous one. The teachers involved (and the OTF) will look like a bunch of petty little tyrants.

Davenport,

Thanks for the reply....but if they have nothing to do with it, why issue the threat?

Teachers, while enjoying respect and levels of support for doing their important job lose that support pretty fast when it comes to union issues, or anything that doesnt affect the children directly.

This would be a very bad issue for the OTF to atract attention over, as it is a distraction from their "professional" duty.

Trust me, at thsi stage in Ontario the teachers union, as opposed to your kids teacher, makes a great and wonderful issue to bat around like a Pinata.

It would be appropriate for teachers to warn their leadership to stick to their knitting.

Rita- You are so right! Retired 1987 ontario teacher and was soooo alone defending sensible right positions after "rae days". As a pre-teaching vet from commission sales i couldn't comprehend the fear of my totally protected confreres about their future. How about hiring by contract renewable each year based on performance decided by board, sr. stsff, pupils and teachers? Better still have parents select school of their choice as well. Why not all private schools under ministry guidelines?

The problem of militant teacher's unions could be fixed in one second if governments would provide suitable financial credit to those parents who have their kids in private schools.

If it costs the public system $X/year/child, then $X/year should be given to parents for each child they have registered in a qualified private school.

Problem fixed.

The teachers union sure helps make the case for public education when they take a position like this.

Mike will get his awards and the teachers union will all have a sore stomach as they should.

Dear Davenport, some of us normal people are not at all happy with the OTF. If "just illustrating the level of anger expressed by some" normal people involved not letting OTF teachers buy stuff at local stores, would that be ok too?

How about if I as a medical professional refused to take OTF members as patients? Hmn? Its within my power to do that, you know. Its also possible for me to encourage others to do that. Just as an illustration of my personal level of anger, y'unnerstand.

See, these things cut both ways. Are you prepared to see union members shut out the way this OTF cretin suggest shutting out students? Does that seem like a reasonable state of affairs for the place you live?

I think its a f-ing outrage myself. What kind of country do you want to live in anyway?

Ii love teachers. I despise their union leadership.

That seems illegal to me.

The problem of militant teacher's unions could be fixed in one second if governments ...

Sorry, I have very little faith that whatever you end the sentence with will have any useful effect.

Instead, the problem should be fixed by the 155,000 members that this Melatti-thug purports to represent.

maybe it's time Mike Harris ran for premier of Ontario again...just to really stick it to the teachers this time.

Mike Harris deserves that honorary degree,he took a province that was ravaged by Bob Rae and his Finance Minister Pink Floyd and put it back on its feet.Mike Harris would be a good candidate for Governor General in my book.

The Phantom: "If "just illustrating the level of anger expressed by some" normal people involved not letting OTF teachers buy stuff at local stores, would that be ok too?"

They could attempt to do so, if they liked -- and their local voluntary BIA wouldn't have the power to stop them...

"How about if I as a medical professional refused to take OTF members as patients? Hmn? Its within my power to do that, you know."

Sure, and your medical profession's respective equivalent-of-a-union wouldn't have the power to stop you either.

THAT's Mr. Melatti's point -- individual teachers have apparently expressed to the OTF the possibility of their rejecting Nipissing student teachers because of this, and since the OTF isn't involved in either student teacher placements or teacher discipline, they wouldn't be able to stop those individual teachers from doing so. The OTF could encourage (and they have) these teachers not to punish student teachers out of anger at Mike Harris and/or Nipissing U, but they can't actually compel them not to.

Harris obviously didn't go far enough when he was in power. Teachers (and other public sector white collar unions) really hate conservatives running the province's socialist institutions. If you are going to be hated, give them something to actually hate you for, like vouchers and charter schools. Personally, I will never forgive Harris for endorsing Belinda Stronach during the CPC leadership campaign.

All else having been spoken to here, why are the STUDENT TEACHERS being targeted?! What have they got to do with the University's decision re Harris?

If I were a student teacher there, I'd be thinking black thoughts about the Union I would shortly be forced to join...should I actually ever graduate, no thanks to the Union.

"Thugs" is right.

Like Davenport, but for different reasons, I have no problem with this decree. From my perspective, if teachers wish to eat their own young, then so be it. The more often these commies flex their muscle, the more clearer their intent becomes to the taxpayer.

"When the grass is cut the snakes will show; I gotta thank my little homie Nas for that though"-Jay-Z

Sure Davenport. Stated another way, he just said "Nice teacher's college ya got here. Shame if anything should... happen to it."

I repeat my question: is that the kind of country you want to live in?

I agree with Rita. There way union dues are collected and spent really stinks. Union membership is mandatory and the dues taken from the paycheck is often spent on the political ambitions of the executive. I think union membership should be voluntary (and abolished in public service monopolies) but in the interim dues and union spending needs to be reformed. The union should be forced to divide their activities into separate pools - strike fund, collective bargaining, grievances and political activity. Union members should have the power to exclude their dues going to political activities.

One more question Davenport. Wouldn't it be quite reasonable for a Nipissing student teacher to file a Section 13 complaint with the OHRC and the CHRC for this kind of behavior? Open and shut case, you ask me.

The Phantom: "If "just illustrating the level of anger expressed by some" normal people involved not letting OTF teachers buy stuff at local stores, would that be ok too?"
The problem is they own the stores! This is just a few of the properties they own:
Through its fully owned subsidiary Cadillac Fairview, the OTPP owns properties including the Toronto-Dominion Centre, Toronto Eaton Centre, and the Rideau Centre in Ottawa. Through its private equity investment arm, Teachers' Private Capital, the OTPP owns or has interests in companies such as Samsonite, Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment, Parmalat Canada, Doane Pet Care, and Worldspan. In 2006 it acquired a 20% stake in CTVglobemedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Teachers'_Pension_Plan

Here's the letter I sent to the OTF.

Re: Honourary Degree for Mike Harris

Anent the above, I find your president's letter to and demands of Nipissing University reprehensible. That another's views may be in conflict with those held by Mr. Melatti does not give him the latitude to imply (threaten?) retaliation.

Maybe what the OTF needs is a few free thinkers, rather than what appears to be a surfeit of left-wing idealogues

Shame on Mr. Melatti and the OTF.

Teachers are the most reactionary force in the country, the 5th column of NWO.

hmm, political activism should be followed by union desertification

and WTH, lets seize all their assets @ the same time. ;)

If the government had a set, they would advise the teachers union that they are about to be sued for their actions. This is clearly extortion with potential victims.

Time to take on the teachers unions everywhere. We could use a few people like Chris Christie here.

Its obvious that Mike Harris didn't cut nearly deep enough. Melatti still has a job.

With the expressions of Champagne Socialists and Latte Liberal floating around does anyone else find Mr Melatti's name somewhat ironic?

[quote]So what the letter says, is that there are teachers SO hateful and filled with impotent rage that they have take out their anger on the next generation of teachers.[/quote]Chris

And if medication will not reduce (control) that hateful rage; why continue to allow them to be involved in teaching thier social malfeasance. This calls for a mental evaluation & prompt termination

Scratch a union, find some fascists.

Did you hear the one about the used car salesman and the teacher who went looking for some respect.......

There's not a lot the Government can do about internal Union politics BUT it can and should (if it hasn't already) separate the professional aspects of being registered as a Teacher, from the normal union functions of negotiating and representation of the individuals.
The professional role should be delegated to a teachers College; responsible for registration, standards, and discipline, and staffed by gov't. appointed non-teachers!

Given the insidious treatment of the profession by former premier Mike Harris

Given the insidious treatment of the WHAT? This is from a letter from a union. Belonging to a union is the opposite of professionalism (so is advertising, but that's a story for another day). True professionals care about doing their jobs well, not about extorting money.

Iowa Jim:

Given the insidious treatment of the WHAT?

Well, I don't know where you were living in the Harris years, but he actually IMPLIED that teachers weren't doing their jobs by implementing province wide achievement tests in reading and arithmetic. At the time, the OTF promised the end of days, frogs raining from the skies, etc., if these were put in place.

Of course the tests are in place, and the OTF's prediction has come true, in the twin forms of Dalton McGuinty and David Miller (note that both have the initials "DM" - never vote for the initials "DM"!).

I do have some sympathy for individual teachers, though. They have had all their "sticks" taken away from them - corporal punishment, detention, expulsion, flunking - and they have no real rewards left to offer, so they have to try to teach in front of classes of unmotivated, undisciplined, and ill-mannered louts. It's no wonder to me they're obsessed with pensions; I'd want to get out too.

"I don't react well to threats"
-- Conan the Administrator

davenport writes:

"THAT's Mr. Melatti's point -- individual teachers have apparently expressed to the OTF the possibility of their rejecting Nipissing student teachers because of this, and since the OTF isn't involved in either student teacher placements or teacher discipline, they wouldn't be able to stop those individual teachers from doing so."

As others have pointed out, Il Padrino Melatti is not threatening anyone, just providing a little wise(guy) advice. In some places, however, such as Nova Scotia, teachers are required under legislation to accept student teachers.

Now, in practice, no one enforces this compulsion on teachers who don't want to be bothered. It would be a nuisance to the province, universities are not interested in "co-operating teachers" who are not co-operative, and the union would be preoccupied in defending teachers who defied the law. If, however, teachers began to refuse student teachers for political spitefulness (as opposed to garden variety laziness or lack of a professional conscience), I think that there might be a public backlash.

Whenever I hear that a teacher refuses to mentor student teachers, I am tempted to ask the teacher to explain that decision to the teacher(s) who mentored him or her.

By the way. This was alluded to above, but its worth making the point loudly. Teachers are so mad at Mike Harris, ten years on, that they are maybe going to take out their mad on completely innocent Nipissing U interns.

We should let people like that near children? Really? Are you f-ing kidding me?

When my father (now retired) taught, teachers in Ontario, most of whom did little work for the maximum benefits they received, protested against the Harris government's cuts which he was forced to make after Bob Rae (remember Rae Days- work for five days and get paid for four?). He thought the protests were a bunch of bull and didn't care what the other teachers or the unions (which NEVER supported him) thought as he crossed the line to teach students who needed his help.
Who deserves an honourary degree (if one must be handed out)? My dad. He didn't let the politics of privileged union stuffers get in the way of an essential service.

Rita @10:23 am; SYF @ 11:22:

I agree, but my anger is directed at SGEU. I am a member, and have been for over 15 years.

First, I am pi$$ed that a member of my union - in the Justice Branch no less - is getting off with little consequence for violating the privacy of individuals when it was discovered that member of the union illegally accessed private information and passed it on to the Teamsters when they were trying to create a Union at a local courier branch. I don't care about her union affiliation - my 'sister' broke the law and should be punished;

Second, the recent commercial that SGEU created and Kate has posted here has me upset about the threatening tones used in it against the Sask Party Government - not to mention the out-of-province actors used.

Like Kate says in her sidebar "...they never once asked (my opinion)"

To my SGEU 'representatives': "YOU DON'T SPEAK FOR ME"

Teachers are evil and stupid.
Posted by: Kathy Shaidle

Kathy, that's a little over the top n'est pas?

A case of certain teachers getting too big for their boots. If they are wise, they might reconsider and enjoy life.