April 8, 2010

Oprah High

The first generation raised under "zero tolerance" enters the workforce.

The Desert Sands school district spent $45,000 for consulting fees and training for its new bullying policy; a price tag some say was too much, considering the district faces a $15 million budget shortfall for the next school year, according to Superintendent Sharon McGehee.

"I just think the money should go toward the kids, not the adults,"

I think the money should go towards the purchase of leather straps and wooden yardsticks, but that's just me.

Posted by Kate at April 8, 2010 9:50 AM


Posted by: Gerald at April 8, 2010 9:57 AM

Homeroom teacher in Grade 9 had a sauna tube full of yard sticks at the beginning of the school year.

He had to refill it around March. A strict disciplinarian, but ya know what? His classes ran smoooooooooth. Well except for the occasional sound of a yard stick snapping in half across the desk of some kid or another. lol

Posted by: AtlanticJim at April 8, 2010 9:57 AM

You go, Kate-lyn! Tell it the way it is! I used to work as a teacher in South Korea. We were allowed to speak softly and carry big sticks. Needless to say, after the first student stepped out of line and got a bonk on the head, the others behaved much better.

Posted by: Simon at April 8, 2010 9:58 AM

Kate you are wise beyond your age.

The public school principal whom taught my children here in Oxford County Ontario, told me the saddest day of his teaching career was his loss of the ability to immediately remedy behavioral situations ordered by the system by removing corrective punishment of the strap!

Bullying in the public schools would stop within days if the strap was sanctioned or reinstated within the system.

Elementary school bullies simply carry on into secondary school as we see today.

I was on the receiving end of the strap, but not for bullying , but for putting Nora Evers pigtail into my inkwell in grade three in Dufferin School, Winnipeg.

Posted by: Joe Molnar at April 8, 2010 10:12 AM

Kate, agreed.

Posted by: Ken (Kulak) at April 8, 2010 10:14 AM

A bulling policy indicates that some degree/type/whatever of bulling is permissible. Should have saved the 4500. No bulling allowed.

Posted by: Tony RoBC at April 8, 2010 10:20 AM

Spare the rod... and a whole pile of no-good is the result.

Posted by: Mark Peters at April 8, 2010 10:22 AM

The leather straps and wooden yardsticks are still popular; just ask Michael Steele.

Posted by: john at April 8, 2010 10:25 AM

I haven't been in a school in several years now but the difference between when I went to elementary and what my children endured was night and day. I can proudly say the I got the strap in grade 3 after the vice principal caught me throwing a snowball.

Posted by: Joe at April 8, 2010 10:26 AM

Save the money for chalk too!
I had a high school science teacher with a good aim and a good arm. He would fire pieces of chalk at his students who talked and did not pay attention in class. I never was in his cross hairs, but occasionally received a bit of shrapnel from the missions on the primary targets near by. After a few weeks, chalk sorties decreased greatly.

Posted by: Al the thawing fish in Manitoba at April 8, 2010 10:29 AM

My mom taught for over 40 years. She retired when she was disciplined for throwing some coffee on a student who was attacking another student with a knife.

Posted by: bill at April 8, 2010 10:30 AM

Every new invented "issue" is an ATM full of taxpayer money: "Please enter your union card number and press 'enter.' Now, type in a short description of the issue you'd like to see funded..."

I love the line "We've had a number of situations come forward."

Yeah, situations - they coalesce out of thin air, grow arms and legs, and "come forward" to validate the "issue", which in turn "pays dividends."

Posted by: EBD at April 8, 2010 10:37 AM

I too got the strap in Gr3 for 'chopping' the wee-wee of the boy who sat behind me with my metal-edged ruler.Hey,he put it out there,what's a gal to do?? Not sure why I got the strap..nowadays it would have been a big 'sexual harrassment' issue,with new rules put in place for keeping pee-pee's in pants,a lawsuit against the school..blah blah.Tell you what,I dealt with it,and after the metal edge made contact with this moron's private small as they were,he NEVER did it again. And Joe Molnar,this happened in a Man school as well.Must be a Manitoba thing.

Posted by: Sammy at April 8, 2010 10:46 AM

You are just unfamiliar with inner operation of modern school system.

Suppose, they suddenly announce policy to establish teacher anti-bullying training.

You would ask them if they had any teacher-on-teacher bullying to begin with, would you?

And they will tell you that if only it saves one life...

Usual drivel from the useful idiots.

Posted by: Aaron at April 8, 2010 10:48 AM

I went to an elementary school in a small northern community where they applied corporal punishment right up until the point where it was outlawed in Ontario, (1982 or 83, I think?).

I still remember the awed silence that fell over the classroom when an offender was taken out in the corridor to get "the strap". Corporal punishment was administered by the vice principal in the presence of the teacher with all of the formality of an execution.

Back in the classroom, all the other pupils would be listening eagerly to see if the miscreant being punished would cry or not. No one had the least sympathy for the strapee...

Posted by: Chris Ivey at April 8, 2010 10:52 AM

Who wants all these lefties influencing our kids 8 hours a day?

Posted by: bob at April 8, 2010 10:59 AM

One of my junior high teachers was far more creative (and effective) than straps and yardsticks. Wall-squats were the most common deterrent to bad behavior but a slow learning student may find himself pushing a jellybean down the hallway with his nose. No one was frightened of the teacher but all were respectful and well behaved during his class.

Posted by: LC Bennett at April 8, 2010 11:14 AM

I went to a k-9 school in rural southern Alberta. The principal carried a pool cue, as a walking stick and as a whacking stick. Many times, a student would sneak out of the room through the back door, followed by a "whack" and hurried, nothing-to-see-here, clenched-butt scurry to his desk. The stick also made a good attention-getter during assemblies and when soemone was turned around talking to someone behind during class.

The graduating grade 9 class one year purchased and presented an engraved replacement pool cue after his severely shortened original broke across a kids' back.

The point is that "behaviour problems" from the other schools in the county were driven by car to our school and eventually returned to their regular schools with different attitudes.

His replacement allowed corporal punishment, but only after meetings with staff, parents, the student, and plenty of time for the offense to be forgotten by all before a rather mild hand-slap.

Posted by: foobius at April 8, 2010 11:19 AM

Not just Manitoba me thinks Sammy.

Got it in Grade 4 when for whatever reason, me and another kid decided that wrestling in the classroom was a great idea. Right up until we went flying into the desk of one of the girls.

Miss Green was just a little bit of a thing, but she could swing that strap!

Posted by: AtlanticJim at April 8, 2010 11:22 AM

I would like to thank Mrs. Shortreed and Mr.Martin for you 'adjusting' my attitude via the strap in 1965 in North Bay for acting up....

They had no reservations doing this..and I was in a wheelchair at the time.

You gotta' love them.

Posted by: cappy at April 8, 2010 11:26 AM

I was born and raised in a tough town in Northern Manitoba,50's & 60's. The "strap " was an every day event for many of us rowdy little buggers.

Never hurt anybody, and it was a source of pride if you didn't cry, this was in grade school. They stopped using the strap in high school after a big farm boy took the strap away from the teacher and administered a few back.

There is "zero tolerance" to bullying in all our schools in B.C.,and the students assure me that means doing "zero" about it.

Posted by: dmorris at April 8, 2010 11:31 AM

"The Illinois state Senate last month passed the Abusive Work Environment Act, which would provide protections from workplace bullying for public workers. Workplace abuse "pushes people into a shell of silence," said Democratic Illinois Rep. Eddie Washington, who is co-sponsoring the House bill. "This is a good way to get in front of it," he said."

Although everyone latter agreed the Illinois state Senate would be better in front of a big silent bus.

Posted by: richfisher at April 8, 2010 11:39 AM

But the irony...'teacher on teacher' bullying?

Life comes back to bite. These teachers are the generation that didn't get the strap.
And now they have the unions to 'protect' them as well.


Posted by: bluetech at April 8, 2010 11:42 AM

I don't think anyone ever forgets why or how often they got the strap in school. And, when hearing stories of it not one of the recipients talk nasty about the teacher.

Posted by: MaryT at April 8, 2010 11:42 AM

Wait a minute! If the educational system will re-introduce physical punishment then there will be another generation of conformists voting for the big Liberal government bringing "universal" education while universities will be re-populated with Marxists professors.
Yes, the present educational system is in decay, but come on ()!?) The comments here are just a geriatric attitude: "when I was young.......newspapers were better."

Posted by: xiat at April 8, 2010 11:45 AM

Incredible that if all of the luxuries, like anti bullying legislation compliance consulting, was stripped away we would probably have an education system that worked just as well, if not better.

Another example of the high overhead society we have, all evidence that maybe we are too rich.

Posted by: Stephen at April 8, 2010 11:53 AM

I agree xiat. A surprising number people seem to think that having older people whacking kids with straps, sticks, etc. is the cure for everything. Back when that sort of thing was allowed, and common, I remember one seriously sadistic little peacock-Scot gym teacher who took an almost prurient pleasure in hauling girls into his office - for chewing gum, for example - and strapping them until they cried. He'd come out all red-faced and happy-like, and would kinda' sniff the air...

He should have been punched out, in the most non-figurative sense.

Re the "geriatric attitude" - good line - it reminds me of a scene from Atlantic City where a elderly, declining Burt Lancaster stared at the waves with his young charge and reminisced, "You should have seen the ocean back then..."

Posted by: EBD at April 8, 2010 12:01 PM

Stephen, how would the students function without diversity advisers, liaison officers, conflict management programs, environmental education and so forth? Sure there may be time and money left over for core subjects and remedial classes in math and English but we'd have to sacrifice the production of well-rounded, empathy-filled student we currently find roaming high school hallways.

Posted by: LC Bennett at April 8, 2010 12:03 PM

I went to elementary school in the 80's, and in my experience "the strap" was similar to the unicorn. We'd all heard stories, but none were ever first hand.

Posted by: Indiana Homez at April 8, 2010 12:03 PM

Yeah I got the strap in grade one. Back then the Heros had come home from europe and started siring the next generation. If you got the strap well...ya probably deserved it. You were expected to take it. Uncomplaining.

Posted by: abtrapper at April 8, 2010 12:09 PM

typical SDA dope @12:02 - I know I come here for the S&M. Tell me more!

Posted by: Black Mamba at April 8, 2010 12:11 PM

Radical lefties with big sticks,just what we all want.
We need to get the government,lefties,radicals and unions out before we give them sticks again.

Posted by: bob at April 8, 2010 12:20 PM

The irony here, that seems to be missed by most here is that the link refers to teacher to teacher bullying.
The lesson here is that the teachers were nutured in a non-coporal punishment environment and they are as bad as the kids to their peers.
Obviously this anti-social obstreperous behaviour has not diminished with the onset of adulthood.
This pattern is manefest by the presence of a critical mass of the constabulary who appear to delight in bullying the general population.
Swivellel servants such as in Revenue Canada as well.
A while back I was comparing notes with a retired Canadian serviceman...who was noting that "you not even allowed to scold them now".
This is a sad situation.
My experience in the Legion (Legion D'Etrage)was bullying was a severe offence, while insubordination or tolerance of insubordination was a greater offence. It was a happy camp.
The military and schools are not a democracy, however respect MUST be mandatory....and there MUST be consequences.

Posted by: sasquatch at April 8, 2010 12:32 PM

The more interesting question is how this generation will pay "lunch money" I mean taxes to bureaucrats or fees to unions. Just say no to bullies?

Posted by: xiat at April 8, 2010 12:38 PM

To steal a line from P.J. O'Rourke, we should re-introduce corporal punishment in the schools... and apply it to the teachers. (And the administrators. And the consultants. And the Union heads.)

Posted by: Black Mamba at April 8, 2010 12:41 PM

And the they come out of university with some with or without fries degree and are going to rule the world. We should all be thankfull.

Posted by: Western Canadian at April 8, 2010 12:51 PM

The education system never ceases to amaze me. How can any system that continually indicates they waste massave amounts of money proving their irrelevance exist in current form?. There are layers and layers of educators that do no such thing. The theory of education should be very simple..teach. We have cops, most kids have cellphones collecting evidence where does edumacation theory come in? There is one lesson in bullying..payback is a bitch. Learn that lesson young and a lot of the problem goes away.

Posted by: Speedy at April 8, 2010 12:53 PM

If only that were so, western canadian.

Unfortunately, they are the one occupation where supply is creating its own demand. The social science graduates are flooding into all areas, starting with government. Once there they produce polices about diversity, harassment, tolerance... which they then impose on the crown corps and public services. This forces the companies to hire consultants and expand their Human Resource depts with more social science types. Once that happens, the field workers are required to attend a multitude of sensitivity training courses, fill out endless questionnaires put out by HR (to identify more make work projects for themselves) and create HR facilitated diversity groups to advise the company and all sorts of other unproductive activities. They are seriously gumming up the working environment and inhibiting real productivity.

Posted by: LC Bennett at April 8, 2010 1:09 PM

Speedy....I think there is parallel on many levels between educational system and assembly line in Detroit. The world of manufacturing that is convulsively fading away. The schools got trapped with producing citizens -the future employees (and social activists),while forgetting about natural human drive for knowledge.

Posted by: xiat at April 8, 2010 1:18 PM

corporal punishment is the most efficient way to get a human to understand there are consequences to misbehaving.

The left removed the consequences and now we see the results, we have the numbers;

this generation of teenager is way more delinquent and more violent than all generations before them who got the strap.

They commit crimes at a younger age, and more violent crimes than previous generations.

Statistics show this is a growing trend.

Numbers show that corporal punishment was a better way to do things, but leftists will deny and conceal the numbers.

Todays teens have no manners, no respect, they do not give their seat to an old person on the bus, they spit their shewing gum on a carpet in a shopping mall - all things that were unheard off only decades ago - because they know they are untouchable.

What a dysfunctional f***ed up generation has the left created.

Posted by: Friend of USA at April 8, 2010 1:21 PM

As a superannuitant of the Snivel Service (Revenue Canada) I represent that remark.
You are correct in your assessment of some of them. By and large these are the younger recruits
that get a power-trip from all the authority they have. Perhaps their lack of an old-school education, including the bullying gives them a feeling of entitlement to do such things.

Posted by: atric at April 8, 2010 1:28 PM

St. Thomas Catholic School 1st grade thru 6th grade before I hit the Public Schools. Man, those Nuns would beat the crap out of you, and I spent everyday, except saturday in church.

I converted from Catholic to Roman Catholic in 1985, now they can't Roam far enuf to find me. ;-)

Posted by: Ratt at April 8, 2010 1:59 PM

Not many have read the link it seems.

"Schools tackle TEACHER-on-TEACHER bullying"

Posted by: ChrisinMB at April 8, 2010 2:00 PM

If you have to resort to corporal punishment, humiliation and fear in order to discipline, I think you have failed. I have seen many great kids who were polite, set high goals and who went on to be successful whose discipline was based on consequences set by their parents and by their teachers. That doesn't mean that you accept poor behavior, rudeness or bullying from kids. Better methods require skill and persistence and perhaps some kids would benefit from more of a boot-camp atmosphere at times, but a little martinet strutting in front of a classroom waving a stick around is not a disciplinarian.

My mom would still almost weep when remembering a particularly sadistic teacher and his sarcasm and strappings. He punished little kids because he was a crappy teacher and they didn't learn from him. One day, a big grade 8 farm boy took him on in defense of the grades 1's and 2's. The "teacher" left soon after.

Posted by: rita at April 8, 2010 2:00 PM

When I was in high school, my brother got into a fight in the school yard. The other kid whipped out two pens and stabbed my brother in the head with them. While my bro looked like Gazoo, he put a fierce pounding on the other kid. The principal came out a gave Gazoo the strap. I'm not sure if he learned anything from it other than if you put an SOS pad on one of the pens, he could pick up CBC radio.

Posted by: multirec at April 8, 2010 3:08 PM

What a pathetic, pussified continent North America has become. Sissies raising sissies.

Another generation and we'll have to go off-shore to recruit our soldiers and cops.

Posted by: Jamie MacMaster at April 8, 2010 3:29 PM

Chris in Mb, I read the links, the other stories about the strap were far more interesting,so I responded to them, as probably did everyone else.

If teachers are being bullied by their own, tough shit,they do nothing about protecting our kids,so why should I have any sympathy for them?

Posted by: dmorris at April 8, 2010 3:30 PM

I believe only a parent should administer corporal punishment but it's extremely helpful when both the parents and the administration let you take control of your class. It should be up to the parents to teach children proper behaviour and habits. If need be, however, there should be real consequences to bad behaviour in the classroom.
When I taught in South Korea, I could separate kids if they fought with one another, send a kid out of the class (believe me- that was a TERRIBLE punishment), make them stand with their arms up and verbally punish them. Had I tried that in Canada, I would have lost my job.

Posted by: Osumashi Kinyobe at April 8, 2010 4:47 PM

> leather straps and wooden yardsticks

Oh hell, they still use those, but only in the sex ed classes now.

Posted by: Sean at April 8, 2010 5:05 PM

I like the Singapore solution. Strap the darlings on a public viewed pole, than whip them for public crimes they have done. Seems to work for them.
In school to all the faith hearted. No one liked getting the strap but it did have an effect. As for the kid if he came out not crying he was a hero. So much for psychological damage.

Posted by: Revnant Dream at April 8, 2010 5:42 PM

Isn't "workforce" rather inappropriate? Especially
the "work" part?

Posted by: John Lewis at April 8, 2010 6:04 PM

I remember the "strap" and the nervous dread standing outside the principle's office waiting your turn. Worse than the actual punishment actually. Mind you, the worry of your parents finding out was a worse form of punishment.
In those days, parents didn't bring their lawyer to parent-teacher interviews either.

Posted by: Texas Canuck at April 8, 2010 7:09 PM

The only time I ever got the strap I was terrified that my parents would find out (never did tell them) and the only one who cried from the strapping was the vice principal who administered it. The whole school heard him snuffling over the PA as he told the entire school that he had to strap three boys during the lunch break.

Posted by: Joe at April 8, 2010 10:37 PM

And it's in California, what a shocker....

Posted by: jcl at April 9, 2010 8:32 AM