February 24, 2010

Y2Kyoto: Springtime For Gore

The use of the word "denier" to slur skeptics has long been criticized on the basis that it's an inappropriate borrowing of a term long used to identify those who minimize or refute the Holocaust.

That misses the mark. They're not borrowing the word at all - they're using it in the original context.

Independent Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders said Tuesday that people who do not take the threat of climate change seriously remind him of those who downplayed the growing threat of fascism and Nazism in the 1930s.

If you hadn't figured that out yet, you haven't been paying attention.

Posted by Kate at February 24, 2010 7:33 AM

Today, on Maritime Morning with Andrew Crystal, News 95.7 Halifax, they are having a 'debate' between "denier" Tim Ball and Richard Zorawski(sp?), 95.7's resident meteorologist and ardent AGW proponent.

They literally called Ball a "denier" on the radio. I nearly drove off the road.

Posted by: Mark Peters at February 24, 2010 8:03 AM

I thought Mr Sanders was close, but he's pointing the finger at the wrong people, again. It's not those raising the alarm about overblown and unsupportable claims of doom that are the deniers.

Nazi's were welcomed by the intellectuals then, same as the eco-fascists are being welcomed and supported now.

That's where the deniers are.

Posted by: mitchel44 at February 24, 2010 8:39 AM

Bernie Sanders said Tuesday that people who do not take the threat of climate change seriously remind him of those who downplayed the growing threat of fascism and Nazism in the 1930s.

On the contrary, people like Sanders are the water carriers for the socialist attempt at 4th(3rd?) Reich.

Sheer projection on his part.

Posted by: Oz at February 24, 2010 8:41 AM

"Independent Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders said Tuesday that people who do not take the threat of climate change seriously remind him of those who downplayed the growing threat of fascism and Nazism in the 1930s."

Like Oz, I was going to say that, on the contrary, those who try to force and bully everyone into the green agenda through loads of misinformation and threats remind me of all of the great socialist dictators who always seem to turn out to be mass murderers.

Posted by: Reed at February 24, 2010 9:28 AM

I know how how he feels.

Because Socialist Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders reminds me of people who do not take the threat of the Leviathan State seriously, and those who downplay the growing threat of trans-nationalism and Statism in the 2010s.

Posted by: Noel at February 24, 2010 9:46 AM

"The persistent practice of tying conservatives to Nazis

C. Edmund Wright

The Jurassic media continues to casually throw around the phrase "right wing / far right" when describing a certain group of socialists - as in Germany's National Socialists -- of the 1930's and 40's.

Nazi was in fact short for the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei.

Translated it sounds even more left wing: The National Socialist German Workers' Party. The term "workers party" is now almost a universal code term for a communist political party in any nation that is not officially communist.

You can't get much more "left wing" than that.

This does not stop the media from continuing to brand conservatives with the Nazi label. Consider this excerpt from a Reuters story from yesterday:

DRESDEN, Germany (Reuters) - At least 10,000 Germans formed a human chain in Dresden on Saturday and stopped neo-Nazis staging a funeral march to remember victims of the Allied air raid that flattened the city 65 years ago.

About 5,000 neo-Nazis, clad in black, had gathered at Dresden's Neustadt station -- where Nazis once packed trains with Jews bound for the Auschwitz concentration camp -- hoping to stage Germany's biggest far-right march since 1945. (emphasis mine).

Notice how it is just inserted into the flow of the story in a matter of fact manner - as an assumed innocent little historical footnote to the story of today. You know, of course neo-Nazi's are like the tea party crowd.

And it didn't stop there:" (more)

Posted by: maz2 at February 24, 2010 9:59 AM

I guess if your theory depends on the data, methods and conclusions produced by the IPCC, CRU, NASA/GISS and NOAA then you too would bitterly cling to irrational smears to express your fear and frustration.

Posted by: LC Bennett at February 24, 2010 10:09 AM

Springtime For Algore

The climate was having trouble
What a sad, sad story
Earth needed a new leader
To restore its former glory
Where, oh where was he?
Where could that man be?
We looked around
And then we found
The man for you and me
And now it's

Springtime for Algore and IPCC
Greenland is happy and gay
We're marching to a faster pace
Look out
Here comes the carbon race

Springtime for Algore and IPCC
Winter for western finance
Springtime for Algore and IPCC
Come on, Warmists
Go into your dance

I was born in Koy-o-to
I ‘m green with cash from head to toe
Don't be stupid, be a smarty
Come and join the greenback party

Springtime for Algore and IPCC
Footprint’s the new step today
Fire falling from the skies again
Al’s wealth is on the rise again

Springtime for Algore and IPCC
Sea Shepherds are sailing once more

Springtime for Algore and IPCC
Means that soon we'll be going
We've got to be going
You know we'll be going to a CO2 war

Posted by: Sir Mel of Brooks at February 24, 2010 10:18 AM

When Insults are thrown your way it simply means you have won the argument. Kate wins gold

Check out Max Bernier in the Globe and Mail. His piece suggests he has the climate balls in the Harper govt.

Posted by: ron in kelowna at February 24, 2010 10:21 AM

This may have been reported before, but this is the best description I've seen.

Boxer & Jackson Admit EPA’s CO2 Finding Based On FAIL at SOYLENT GREEN.

-- Begin Quote --

"During EPA budget hearings following the release of Sen. James Inhofe’s Minority Report on the State of Climate Science Fail and his request that the DOJ investigate ClimateGate, both Babs “Call me Senator” Botoxer and Lisa “Call me Mr. Tibbs” Jackson said the endangerment finding had nothing to do with the fraud/chicanery/crimes committed by the UN IPCC.

“I didn’t quote one international scientist or IPCC report. … We are quoting the American scientific community here.”—Babble Botoxer

[The errors Inhofe had presented were] international events. The information on the glaciers and other events doesn’t weaken … the evidence we considered [to make the Endangerment Finding on CO2.]—Lisa Lisa Lisa


The EPA cited the UN IPCC 4th Annual Report as the primary source for its GHG endangerment finding."

-- End Quote --

Guy's got style. Emphasis in the original.

Better formatting, better linking at the original.

Posted by: Looking Glass at February 24, 2010 10:51 AM

. . . and they are all Warmongers.

Their hatred of humanity and the benefits of technical progress are the two support pillars for their child like Utopian environmental beliefs.

That and too much Walt Disney as children.

Posted by: Fred at February 24, 2010 10:57 AM

"don't be meanies
be a greenie
come and join the AGWeenies"

Posted by: john begley at February 24, 2010 11:00 AM



The WAR BETWEEN THE STATES was really the war between the Democrats and the Republicans.

The current ploy of the Democrats is as revisionist much like the KREMLIN ploy to lable the Nazi's as "right wing."

The WAR BETWEEN THE STATES was not economic or to do with civil rights but a political war.
The CO2AGW thingy is not scientific but is definitely a political matter....with apolitical solution----the same as 1860's.

Posted by: sasquatch at February 24, 2010 11:16 AM

The CO2AGW thingy is not scientific but is definitely a political matter....with apolitical solution----the same as 1860's.

You've got that right, mostly.
British PM Margret Thatcher started the CO2 AGW meme in the 1980s to smack down the British Coal Miner's Union and promote nuclear power plants.

The CND(Coalition for Nuclear Disarmament) lost their cause when Russia shed the Soviet Union and the CND took Thatcher's government funded CO2 meme and weaponized it to use against Western Industrialized Civilization.

That's why in the UK support for AGW doesn't divide so much along Left/Right lines the way it does in North America and the rest of the Anglosphere.

Posted by: Oz at February 24, 2010 11:28 AM

Anybody who calls Bernie Sanders a socialist is incorrect.

He admits he's a communist.

Posted by: set you free at February 24, 2010 11:35 AM

Karl Marx used the terms socialist and communist interchangeably.
The idea that there is a difference comes from the same College Professors that teach the idea that the Nazis were "right wing".

Posted by: Oz at February 24, 2010 11:38 AM

"But as the New York Times notes, EPA administrator Lisa Jackson did not give an inch when it came to the overwhelming scientific consensus on climate change."

"The science behind climate change is settled, and human activity is responsible for global warming," she said. "That conclusion is not a partisan one."

We still have a LONG way to go.

Posted by: dmorris at February 24, 2010 11:40 AM

Mark Peters,Re: Maritime Morning, I hope it wasn't the same ditch that I almost ran into. I could only listen to a few moments of that "debate" before I had to change channels. I was amazed at the facts Tim Ball had at his disposal but even more in awe at the "yeah, but" responses of the "expert". Zurawski and Crystal have clearly drank from the same koolade bowl but then again most of the personalities on that station seem to be of the lieberal leaning.

Posted by: Texas Canuck at February 24, 2010 11:47 AM

Time Magazine; January 2, 1939

"Most cruel joke of all, however, has been played by Hitler & Co. on those German capitalists and small businessmen who once backed National Socialism as a means of saving Germany's bourgeois economic structure from radicalism. The Nazi credo that the individual belongs to the state also applies to business. Some businesses have been confiscated outright, on other what amounts to a capital tax has been levied. Profits have been strictly controlled. Some idea of the increasing Governmental control and interference in business could be deduced from the fact that 80% of all building and 50% of all industrial orders in Germany originated last year with the Government. Hard-pressed for food- stuffs as well as funds, the Nazi regime has taken over large estates and in many instances collectivized agriculture, a procedure fundamentally similar to Russian Communism."

Posted by: John Luft at February 24, 2010 11:52 AM

Libel and slander are the first tools the left reaches for when one of their taxpayer funded gravy trains loses a wheel and they are exposed to even minimal outsider scrutiny.

Posted by: Sgt Lejaune at February 24, 2010 11:55 AM

Oz @ 11:38 has it right. The only difference between socialists and communists is a matter of degrees of radicalism. When put on the ropes they stick together.

John Luft @ 11:52 nice find, exactly and this ties in so neatly with Oz's comment. This also explains why it was so easy for many former Nazis to become part of the communist system in the former East German Democratic Republic. The Stazi and government was full of former Nazis.

Posted by: Ken (Kulak) at February 24, 2010 12:09 PM

Are you talking aboutthis , Kate ?

Posted by: Bill D. Cat at February 24, 2010 12:13 PM

Sorry Kate. It was the headline that pulled the trigger.

Posted by: Speedy at February 24, 2010 12:14 PM

I read J.Curry's article at WUWT. Although I agree with much of her article, the cynic in me cannot shake the feeling that this is all strategy. Much like Toyota and Tiger Woods' 'deep regret' over, well...getting caught. A doddering old communist like Bernie Sanders is too inflexible to navigate this evasive maneuver.

Anyway, I would like to see all data etc. fully released but I doubt the AGWers sincerity.

Posted by: LC Bennett at February 24, 2010 12:31 PM

Darn, I forgot to add that reading Curry's *edit* of Kate's comment certainly adds to my suspicion.

Posted by: LC Bennett at February 24, 2010 12:37 PM

Those who call informed, knowledgeable AGW skeptics "deniers" are, almost certainly, commie poofters.

Posted by: jlc at February 24, 2010 12:43 PM

J.Curry's article at WUWT shows that she is firmly ensconced in the AGW Church of Al Gore.

The hypothesis, that CO2 drives warming, has been falsified.

J.Curry's continues calling skeptics "deniers" and pushing the false meme that climate denial, at least originally and until recently, was funded by "Big Oil".

She isn't trustworthy and neither is anyone who continues to deny that the CO2 drives warming hypothesis has already been debunked by the fact that CO2 is increasing while temperature in the last decade has reached stasis or even cooled.

Even Phil Jones has admitted that there has been no warming in the last decade.

Posted by: Oz at February 24, 2010 12:48 PM

"And a pristine record, in which every possibly error is ironed out, will be of significant value to the climate science community as well as of PR value to the Met Office."

Al Gore's Weather (AGW): Here I Am. We Shall Be Made Whole Again.

>>> "PR value to the Met Office".

Al & its AGW choir sings that old gospel/revival song:

"Rescue the perishing, care for the dying, snatch them in pity from ..." (H/T Fanny Crosby)

"Analysis: reaping what was sown"

Posted by: maz2 at February 24, 2010 12:57 PM

The scientific "community" (very artificial term) should be distancing itself like crazy from the AGW hysterics and scam-artists if it wants to maintain any credibility at this point.

Posted by: Black Mamba at February 24, 2010 1:05 PM

I have to agree with Oz here. At first glance the article appears to be a genuine olive branch and, in many ways, Curry may be genuine in her desire to extend same.

However, she does so from a position with at least one foot continuing to be firmly planted in the alarmist camp.

1. While she has substantially reduced here use of the 'denier' term, its inclusion at all is problematic. The term is pejorative, and I must agree with Watts' position that its usage is unnecessary, even in quotation marks. Full stop.

2. She continues to promote the Big Oil theme which is, to be charitable, pure propaganda. The implication she makes (intentional or not), is that research funded by Big Government is clean, noble and pure.

Curry does make some welcome mea culpas that the scientific method has been corrupted by those within the AGW establishment. However, her solution appears to be little more than improved PR and communications from this same corrupted establishment.

Sorry, Curry. Not good enough in my books.

Posted by: Colin from Mission B.C. at February 24, 2010 1:21 PM

JoNova has a good laugh . .

Posted by: Fred at February 24, 2010 1:28 PM

"denier" - a variant of the ad Hominem attack, attacking the messenger personally, rather than responding to the message, and bringing up any logical counter-arguments to the message.

I suspect that "denier" is thrown around at skeptics because the corrupted scientists, the MSM talking/writing heads, the "eco-minded" public are either intellectually lazy and/or have no logical counter arguments. (I.e. British scientist Monckton's powerful, logical, articulate response to a "Global Warming" fanatic.)

Posted by: Dave in Pa at February 24, 2010 1:38 PM

John Luft - thanks for your post. wow, the similarities with Obama's statist socialism, massive govt, and denigration of individual free enterprise - are frightening.

Posted by: ET at February 24, 2010 1:43 PM

Curry does make some welcome mea culpas that the scientific method has been corrupted by those within the AGW establishment.
~Colin from Mission B.C.

Yeah, but that was only because dirtbags like her got caught.
A limited hangout is to be expected so that they can continue down the same road, which has already been shown to lead NOWHERE.

As I said earlier, no more needs to be done toward proving the AGW scam.
The link between CO2 and warming has been falsified, cut, disproved by the continuing CO2 fractional increase and NO WARMING for the last 10 years.

The AGW hypothesis says that CO2 increases FORCE temperature increases.
(John Cross made that abundantly clear here and , lo!, has not been seen here since his hobby horse was killed by a computer download)

As a scientist, Curry should recognize that the AGW hypothesis clearly has been falsified, but she wants to keep her snout in the tax trough while keeping her damned reputation intact.

All of the legislation based on the AGW hypothesis should be repealed.
All of the punitive taxes should be terminated.
All of the government funded research and promotion of "alternative" energy sources should cease and be replaced by private initiatives.
The IPCC should be scrapped immediately.

There is no CO2 driven global warming and there is no energy crisis.

Did I mention that the AGW hypothesis, touted as "settled science", has been undeniably falsified?

Posted by: Oz at February 24, 2010 1:47 PM

Agreed, Oz. Curry only comes halfway and you're more than likely right, that she only does so because of the CRU e-mail/data leak, and the more recent damning revelations that the last IPCC report cited, shall we say, less than stellar sources.

She is clearly still entrenched in the alarmist, CO2-causes-warming camp. As a scientist, she needs to remove herself fully from that camp and state unequivocally that she will follow the truth, wherever it may lead.

This is why I do not give her credit for her position. It is welcome as far as it goes, at least relative to where we were six months ago. But is a far cry from where we need to be scientifically and public-policy-wise -- and you succinctly state where that is in your last post.

Posted by: Colin from Mission B.C. at February 24, 2010 2:02 PM

The "overwhelming scientific consensus" is a beast with many legs - most of which have now been chopped off.
These politicians have not the faintest idea of what science is about or how it is done. Nor do they wish to find out. As for calling
a scientist who is simply doing his duty of skeptical inquiry a Nazi, it is an unforgiveable slander.

Posted by: John Lewis at February 24, 2010 2:05 PM

The AGW beast will die toughly . . . there are far too many careerists with their "entitled to their entitlements" mindset and a lip-lock on the public teat + too many businesses seeing huge profits from receiving free carbon credits that they can then sell, + too many politicians who have hitched their careers to the eco-grifter AGW marketing/fund raising campaign that went rocket.

But it will die, just like ENRON.

It will be a spectacular market bubble when it finally goes kablooie.

Posted by: Fred at February 24, 2010 2:22 PM


I will agree that the AGW money sucking vampire will die a slow and tortuous death. There will be much shrieking and wailing...but the fundamental science has largely been undercut by the AGW cabal themselves.

When everything from cow methane to a human burp causes AGW you know these kleptocrats were overreaching. These people are the Bernie Madoffs of the AGW world.

The lurid harum scarum of the Goracle acolytes only served to illustrate that this was some sort of B grade horror flick attempt at stampeding emotion. Run for your lives...we're all gonna die.

The Inconvenient Truth is a B grade horror flick. The Nobel Prize has become a debased medal.

I wonder if there is a provision in the Criminal Code for GLOBAL FRAUD?


Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief

1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North"

Posted by: Hans Rupprecht at February 24, 2010 2:40 PM

At least there's one person in the comments other than Kate who's not an idiot:

BTW, Kate, if you're reading this: was your comment censored in the [snip] part? And was it your citing of the actual, literal source of "denier" that you've cited in your own post, above, about Sanders?

Posted by: andycanuck at February 24, 2010 3:00 PM

Al Gore's Weather (AGW):
Moi commissar/Kommissar/gauleiter speaks for Moi.

>> "Bloc MP Pierre Paquette said all signs point to a Harper government that is "ideological, conservative, and retrograde."

"Bernier sides with climate-change skeptics

MONTREAL - Canada's ex-foreign affairs minister has come out swinging on behalf of climate-change skeptics and assailed what he describes as alarmism over global warming.

Maxime Bernier has taken a public stance against the conventional wisdom on global warming. The prominent Conservative MP has written a letter to La Presse newspaper saying there is no scientific consensus on the matter.

He says the issue has been taken over by alarmism - and he applauds the Harper government for taking a go-slow approach.

"The debate over climate change, stifled for years by political correctness, has finally broken out in the media," Bernier wrote in a letter published Wednesday."

Posted by: maz2 at February 24, 2010 3:14 PM

Posted by: Fred at February 24, 2010 1:28 PM

Neat site , thanks . She has a ton of good stuff concerning the money .

Posted by: Bill D. Cat at February 24, 2010 3:20 PM

And the Band plays on.

Man, these cats won't quit, ObamaCare full steam, AGW full steam, Cap & Trade full steam and the Gummint run Media backing them.

It's almost as if Obambi wants us to start CWII so he can declare Martial Law, abolish elections and become Dictator.

I ended up on some Liberal Pro-ObamaCare website yesterday and was literally foaming at the mouth. The PlumLine I believe it was. These people actually want to kill us for denying them Free Healthcare, they also advicated killing us for being AGW skeptics. I was so distraught afterwards it took 2 stiff drinks and a 1,000 round order from Cabela's to kool me off.

Comon November.

Posted by: Ratt at February 24, 2010 3:20 PM

The threat of climate change is like Nazism? Boy, I guess that means we better get millions of allied troops together for a mass invasion to overthrow the evil climate! There's an old refrain from our WWII troops that we used to chant as kids in the schoolyard:

"Whistle while you work,
Hitler is a jerk;
Mussolini bit his weenie,
Now it doesn't work."

Now that climate change is the new Nazi, we must have a new schoolyard chant:

"Whistle while Lefties sit on their butts and watch Al Gore documentaries,
Their science is a jerk;
Nature didn't do what they wanted it to do,
Now their weiner-brained science doesn't work."

Posted by: ricardo at February 24, 2010 3:28 PM

Anyone who makes wild claims a la Nazism/climate change should- on live TV- qualify his or her statements. Let him draw the logical connection between Nazism and actual scientific documents regarding noticeable changes in the climate. For far too long, the left has been casting all kinds of aspersions on anyone who isn't them and it's all been allowed to slide. No more. Have "Independent Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders" defend what he says to the very people he accuses of downplaying Nazism. Let potential voters see this idiot fumble around for an answer. If they don't get it then, do as Jesus said: kick the dust off your sandals and hit the road. None are so blind who won't see.

Posted by: Osumashi Kinyobe at February 24, 2010 3:31 PM

Been following some links around and found this little gem . Investors with $13 trillion on the line looking to seek rent ....... and yeah it's that UN.

Posted by: Bill D. Cat at February 24, 2010 3:34 PM

Return the favor: Solar Influence Denier

Posted by: rimcTX at February 24, 2010 3:34 PM

The science debate is simply misdirection. It’s like a flee-flicker in football, they’re going for the long-ball but our DB didn’t take the bait completely; but the ball’s in the air regardless.

It's never been about the weather, it's about an overt tax on energy, the most precious of commodities, or should I say monopolies.

Once the taxes are firmly in place it will not matter what anyone says about the science; this is why it’s been a race to implement the treaties and taxes. By then the revenue stream will be "too big to fail" or should I say sever; and, Canadians will follow in lockstep(out of necessity IMO). The skyrocketing Debt and the recession will be the justification to continue these overt energy taxes. Quite simply, it will still be George Bush's fault.

Sorry for the echo as I am repeating myself from back in 08'. Nothing has changed.

Posted by: Indiana Homez at February 24, 2010 3:34 PM

Upon further reading, I realize that it is Joseph Romm not J.Curry who edited Kate's comment. I see that on Romm's home page he expresses his admiration for Van Jones in his first post and his disappointment for J.Curry's article in the second post. Romm's endorsements : (from Climate Progress- About Page

"In March 2009, The New York Times‘ Tom Friedman wrote that Romm is “a physicist and climate expert who writes the indispensable blog” In April, U.S. News & World Report named Romm one of the 8 “most influential energy and environmental policymakers in the Obama era,” writing, “In terms of his cachet in the blogosphere, Joe Romm is something like the climate change equivalent of economist (and New York Times columnist) Paul Krugman.”

Posted by: LC Bennett at February 24, 2010 3:46 PM

Bernie Sanders- Born Sept. 8 1941. Just curious to know what debates he heard in the '30s to remind him of those "deniers" of today?

Posted by: pkuster at February 24, 2010 3:53 PM

ET, if you haven read this book it may be worth it.

Intellectuals and Society by Thomas Sowell.

I have found it to be a text book of common sense high lighting today’s problems and those of the past.


Posted by: Western Canadian at February 24, 2010 3:55 PM

The obligatory Hitler learns of the downfall of global warming video , no swearing , funny stuff .

Posted by: Bill D. Cat at February 24, 2010 3:58 PM

Al-AGW says, Don't let Moi die. Moi wants to see/feel "the remarkable change under way in the climate," x 1,400 "Climate scientists".

Look here and you'll feel GUI, er guilty:

>>> "The foundation's projects at universities across the country, which are seen as key to understanding the remarkable change under way in the climate".

"A petition, signed by close to 1,400 graduate students and researchers, is demanding new funding for the Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospheric Sciences, which will die without a cash infusion."

Send $$$$$; hurry. We are dying.

"Climate scientists fight for renewed research funding

Petition; 1,400 demand Ottawa renew money in budget"

Posted by: maz2 at February 24, 2010 4:37 PM

"The Jurassic media continues to casually throw around the phrase "right wing / far right" when describing a certain group of socialists..."

I'm thinking that the political spectrum must be a circle..go far enough right and're left!

Posted by: Pongo at February 24, 2010 4:38 PM

Mr. Sanders disparages the appeasers of Britain, " 'don't worry! Hitler is not real! It'll disappear! We don't have to be prepared to take it on.'"
I am curious about his take on Islam. I'd bet the farm,if I had one,that he is firmly in the 'there just like us' camp.

Posted by: wallyj at February 24, 2010 4:41 PM

Or maybe even the 'they're just like us' camp.

Posted by: wallyj at February 24, 2010 4:43 PM

A'sGW: It's Global Change, not Climate Warming.

"Tories in no hurry to embrace Bernier’s remarks"

"The prime minister’s office declined comment. But a spokesman for Environment Minister Jim Prentice was less than supportive of Bernier’s comments.

“The MP expressed a personal opinion that doesn’t reflect the minister’s or the government position on climate change,” Frederic Baril wrote in an e-mail to QMI Agency. “This is the only comment we will make on this matter.”

"Opposition critics say they want the government to repudiate Bernier’s remarks."

Pay no attention: It's a computer model; a figment.

"A very strong coastal storm will dump heaps of snow across the Northeast Thursday and Friday. The heaviest snowfall will come Thursday afternoon and Thursday night when the region from northeastern Pennsylvania through central New York gets as much as 1 to 2 feet. That combined with 30- to 40-mph winds will force some roads to close."

Posted by: maz2 at February 24, 2010 5:42 PM

Arghh. People like "JR" at ClimateProgress are almost insane-making at this point. The case for an impending climate Armageddon has been built on falsification and deletion of data, wholesale moving of measuring stations to warmer locations, suppression of dissenting views, recycling of worthless anecdotal "data" as scientific "fact", etc., etc., and they just won't admit it. We're not talking about one or two or ten cases of malfeasance; the scientific evidence for their entire argument - outside of their computer modeling - has been shown to be corrupted and compromised top-to-bottom. For the remaining hardline holdouts in the warmist community to have the chutzpah to assert that those who don't accept shoddy and corrupted data - i.e. that those who merely examine the available evidence and draw appropriate conclusions - are moral monsters who are worse than Holocaust deniers is repulsive on many levels, not just a scientific one.

If someone who was in a coma for the last thirty years woke up a month ago, alert and refreshed, to look at the current debate, and without any knowledge of the viability of the evidence one way or another, two things would clearly stand out to him:

1. The "deniers" like McIntyre, Watts and look at, discuss, and examine the actual scientific evidence, and base their conclusions on the evidence.

2. The warmists dismiss, on moral grounds, anyone who examines the actual scientific evidence.

This difference between the two camps can be seen even in comments from regular folks at popular blogs and under online newspaper articles: the "deniers" tend to refer to the scientific case - i.e. the actual evidence - while the AGW supporters tend to say no, no, you idiot, the evidence is already in, it was in ten years ago, the case is closed, and your wish to drag me into a discussion about the actual evidence just shows that you are a knuckle-dragging, moral monster.

Btw, wrt the CBC News article -

"As the New York Times notes, EPA administrator Lisa Jackson did not give an inch when it came to the overwhelming scientific consensus on climate change"

- that's *CBS News* saying that there's overwhelming scientific consensus. There's a difference between saying "EPA administrator Lisa Jackson did not give an inch, stating that there is overwhelming scientific consensus on climate change" and saying "Lisa Jackson did not give in inch when it came to the overwhelming consensus on climate change."

Posted by: EBD at February 24, 2010 5:46 PM

MSM are in a feeding frenzy. seems that Maxime Bernier, the soiled Tory wonder kid from Quebec has stepped on hallowed ground by (gasp!) saying that climate change has no scientific consensus and PM Harper is right with a go slow approach. It is such a scandal that Lizzy May and Gilles Duceppe are raising alarm bells and Jane Tabor is polishing up her Pulitzer Prize acceptance speech. These village idiots make the Salem witch hunt seem sane.

Posted by: Texas Canuck at February 24, 2010 6:43 PM

Agreed TC.

Bernier didn't do PMSH and the Conservatives any favours.

This was very selfish on Bernier's part. He's clearly appealing to the populous mood at the expense of his party for personal gain. It doesn’t matter what Bernier, PMSH or you thinks about AGW because the ball rolls with or without us. This is why paying lip service and doing nothing was the best strategy!

Everyone will now see for themselves the consequences of the perception that the Conservatives are non believers. I'm sure they've got the PMSH clip cued and ready to go of PMSH calling Kyoto a "socialist plot". It will be interesting to see if this crack in the Conservatives solidarity can be mended or if it will expand laying waste to all that PMSH is trying to accomplish.

Posted by: Indiana Homez at February 24, 2010 7:25 PM

I have to repeat my question: “What is endangered?” My answer is: “It is our freedom and our prosperity. The climate is OK.” This is relevant for all countries but even more so for the less developed ones. They must have a chance to grow, to develop, to move ahead without any artificial constraints – the totally useless fight against the current CO2 levels being one of the most important and dangerous ones. We have to resist such ambitions in the name of freedom, prosperity and progress. Countries like Egypt should not become victims of the irresponsible doctrine of global warming.

One short explanatory comment. I very often see that people confuse two different things – a necessary protection of the environment (necessary because there is no doubt that we have to take care of the rivers, lakes, seas, forests and air) and an irrational attempt to fight or to protect the climate. I am very much in favor of rational efforts when it comes to environmental protection, but I resolutely reject any attempts to change or – as I frequently hear – to combat climate.

Václav Klaus, ARAB Global forum, Hotel Four Seasons, Cairo, February 8, 2010

Posted by: Hans Rupprecht at February 24, 2010 8:27 PM

This pronouncement of Bernier is proving the impatient members of the conservative camp were stupid.......
......however although Bernier may have gone off prematurely----all is not lost.
So far it is just the usual suspects in the lefitist media and the political troika that have taken notice.
It is possible that this is the spark to the powderkeg......which will destroy the warmists and the lefties in a perfect storm.
The difference/balance is in OUR hands....not the Lizzie Mays and the troika.

Posted by: sasquatch at February 24, 2010 9:07 PM


"""The hypothesis, that CO2 drives warming, has been falsified.""""

nope, not so, and it is foolishness like this that can blow up in your face

all that an increasing CO2 count and a decreasing temp at the same time prove is lack of correlation. The fact is that there could be an over riding forcing that causes the temp to decline, but less so than if CO2 was not a positive forcing agent. It is the same as increasing temps and increasing CO2 only prove correlation, and not actual forcing. So lets not fall into the leftist meme of simplifying things just to over state our position!!

Posted by: GYM at February 24, 2010 9:15 PM

Garbage in , garbage out. Welcome to modern education. Its a rare thing this much ignorance is found in one place. I found the comments chilling in their homogeneity.
That science is now a belief system, not procedure will slow any progress.
Kate's posted article is by a Luddite. For Luddites pretending to be for knowledge. While parroting censorship by mockery.

Posted by: Revnant Dream at February 24, 2010 9:22 PM

MAZ2 @ 3:14 mentions..


Maxime Bernier has taken a public stance against the conventional wisdom on global warming. The prominent Conservative MP has written a letter to La Presse newspaper saying there is no scientific consensus on the matter.

Hey, I like the Maxime guy. He must be checking here at SDA..

He says Solar activity and other influences have more effect on climate than we humans do.

That was what I said in my comments..

Excellent Maxime, and you are very welcome.

Posted by: TG at February 24, 2010 11:20 PM

GYM at February 24, 2010 9:15 PM
My position is that there is no global warming.
Nothing I have seen or read contradicts that.

The AGW hypothesis is that rising CO2 levels forces temperature rise on a global scale.

Their hypothesis does not, and has not, taken other factors into consideration.

Thus we get Phil Jones saying that the temperature has not risen and he and other "climate scientists" have NO explanation for it not rising.

The hypothesis has therefore been falsified.

You see, they put all of their eggs in one basket and declared a consensus on it.
They are the ones who made it simple.
They are the ones who said there was a direct correlation.
All of their models demonstrate a direct correlation and their solution is single: Lower CO2 levels and that will lower the temperature.

You, GYM, are the one misapprehending the situation that they are in, not me.

I don't have to prove anything.
I get to sit back and poke holes in their position.
I have no case to make except that AGW proponents have no case.
I represent the status quo and they have failed to make a case to change the status quo.

I don't know how long you have been coming to SDA, GYM, but there was a most patient and eloquent AGW proponent named John Cross who used to come here and argue a direct correlation all of the time.

Apart from being wrong about global warming John Cross was an intelligent man who made they AGW case, such as it was, very well.

He hasn't dared come here since late November 2009.

Posted by: Oz at February 24, 2010 11:22 PM


Maxime, I like your selective taste in women as well.

Posted by: TG at February 24, 2010 11:52 PM

Globull warming was great fun while it lasted and did contribute to less pollution with the promotion of wind farms and electric vehicles.

Horns REV1 Windfarm.. [offshore ocean shallows]

The 489 ton Vestas turbines deliver 2% of Denmark power needs or enough for 150,000 homes. So big and slow, they kill almost NO birds.


The 160MW Horns Rev (Horns Reef) offshore wind farm has 80 turbines off the west coast of Denmark's Jutland peninsula. Horns Rev was the world's largest offshore project when Elsam installed it in 2002, close to Blåvands Huk in the North Sea. It is now owned by Vattenfall (60%) and Dong Energy (40%).

Posted by: TG at February 25, 2010 2:34 AM

TG, I agree with the "nice tits" evaluation.

Posted by: PiperPaul at February 25, 2010 3:43 AM

"For the past 3 years, I have been trying to figure out how to engage skeptics effectively in the context of #3 (engaging AGW skeptics in open debate)" Dr. Judith Curry

Dear Dr. Curry,

Three years? Really? What's the matter? Is Dr. Tim Ball's phone number unlisted?

Posted by: Jamie MacMaster at February 25, 2010 7:23 AM

Good comment, Jamie MacMaster.

In fact Dr. Tim Ball would be happy to have a public debate with her right now as, no doubt, would Lord Monckton.

The real reason she and her ilk haven't had a public debate with these people if they had wanted to in the past 3 years, is that they would fail spectacularly and be ostracized by the likes of Phil Jones and Michael Mann.

The AGW position has up until now been maintained on a pedestal of pure image and lies to bolster that image and a debate would destroy that image by exposing the lies.

Posted by: Oz at February 25, 2010 12:33 PM

Exactly PiperPaul,

You are a skilled 'between the lines' reader.

Posted by: TG at February 25, 2010 1:24 PM

We dont need to discuss CO2. Tim Ball proved the case. He summarized all his work in the conclusion below and it was published. They say he doesn't publishe on atmosphere but here it is.

Ball, T. Book Review, Agricultural Dimensions of Global Climate Change, book ed. by H.M. Kaiser and T.E. Drennen. Canadian Journal of Agricultural Economics 42: 212-214 (1994).

Tim Ball: "...For example, carbon dioxide from anthropogenic sources increased the most from 1940 to 1980 while global temperature decreased. Atmospheric carbon dioxide readings plummeted at Mauna Loa in the last two years. "

Posted by: Red at February 26, 2010 9:12 AM