December 11, 2009

Hide The Decline: From Orland To Calgary

Update 2 - I pulled down part of the original content of this post for a few hours, while Anthony Watts checked it for accuracy. I've now updated it with excerpts of his corrected version.

I’ve been following this issue a few days and looking at a number of stations and had planned to make a detailed post about my findings, but WUWT commenter Steven Douglas posted in comments about this curious change in GISS data recently, and it got picked up by Kate at SDA, which necessitated me commenting on it now. [And he didn't give the "what for" I deserved for that - ED]. This goes back to the beginning days of in June 2007 and the second station I surveyed.

"Remember Orland? That nicely sited station with a long record?"

Note the graph I put in place in June 2007 on that image.

Orland, CA station

Now look at the graph in a blink comparator showing June 2007 and today:

And it is not just Orland, I’m seeing this issue at other stations too. [...] The timing could not be worse for public confidence in climate data.

Continue reading here....

Now, take a look at this

"Chalk up another for the flattening the past theme. Here’s what Calgary Int’l looks like:"

(Click to enlarge)

"I added a 15 year moving average to both the raw (in blue) and adjusted (in red) data and what they’ve done is quite striking. The warm “blip” between roughly 1915-40 has been adjusted down by as much as a full degree C while leaving the cold years in the late 1800’s and warm years post 1970’s more or less alone. Niiiiiiice."

Who's the minister in charge of Environment Canada? I bet he'd be a great interview.

Posted by Kate at December 11, 2009 3:45 PM

I am very sorry if Environment Canada are doing this.
My own recollections of a couple of very strange days, weatherwise, don't seem to square
with official records.

Another matter about Environment Canada. Back about
20 years ago they had one of the world's leading
glaciologists, Simon Ommaney, working for them.
One of his major projects was mapping the Canadian
glaciers, which are numerous. The small ones should be good indicators of limate change, if any.
He was not treated sympathetically in Environment Canada, and left,
for Cambridge, to become chair of the International Glaciological Society.
I don't know what happened to his mapping project-
I had a couple of draft maps from him, which are now in the Memorial University Library, but the
one map librarian I hve talked to about the matter
can't find any ther sheets, and didn't know anything about the project.

Yet another dereliction of
successive Canadian governments in regard to environmental monitoring.

One does wonder.

Posted by: John Lewis at December 11, 2009 11:58 AM

Seriously, when is there going to be different content on SDA again? Your readers are the choir, Kate. We believed AGW was bs before climate gate. I can understand the desire for keeping tabs on it, but it's all you post about now. We don't need long articles about it everyday. Make a list box with links or something, and bring back was once a great blog. Obviously you own the place and can do what you want, but I thought I'd let you know that myself and a few other people I know are getting a little frustrated with this one issue blog. Again, you're not convincing anyone who has not been convinced. Just being blunt.

Thanks for all your work over the years, btw.

Posted by: Stan at December 11, 2009 12:12 PM

The collusion on the AGW narrative is so widespread that the average folks will have a hard time believing that it's real and not a crazy conspiracy theory. The trained seals of the MSM embedded in the narrative are trying to reinforce that skepticism by continuing with the "nothing to see here folks", "its all settled", and the statist variant, "might makes right".

Thanks to Kate and the blogosphere, minds are changing.

Posted by: John G Chittick at December 11, 2009 12:13 PM

Post by: Stan at December 11, 2009 12:12 PM

I completely disagree with you 'Stan'. This "climategate" is very newsworthy item. Keep up the most excellent work 'Kate' because it sure isn't being covered by 'lame stream media'.

Posted by: Merle Underwood at December 11, 2009 12:22 PM

Stan, I appreciate what you're saying. However, the traffic here at SDA since Climategate broke is 70% higher than in the weeks preceding it, and remaining stable.

Please check the traffic stats on those Blogging Tories pouring over details of Afghanistan detainee abuse, and get back to me.

If the information being posted here was available in the Canadian mainstream media, I'd be doing what you suggest already. But it's not, and until it is, I'll continue to follow it closely - particularly in this currently "Copenhagen" heated media atmosphere.

Posted by: Kate at December 11, 2009 12:22 PM

All the better to justify global skimming operations like Enron type cap n trade operations which are now having their cover blown!!

Carbon Credit fraud causes more than 5 billion euros damage for European Taxpayer

The Hague - The Netherlands.

The European Union (EU) Emission Trading System (ETS) has been the victim of fraudulent traders in the past 18 months. This resulted in losses of approximately 5 billion euros for several national tax revenues. It is estimated that in some countries, up to 90% of the whole market volume was caused by fraudulent activities.

Indications of suspicious trading activities were noted in late 2008, when several market platforms saw an unprecedented increase in the trade volume of European Unit Allowances (EUAs). Market volume peaked in May 2009, with several hundred million EUAs traded in e.g. in France and Denmark. At that time the market price of 1 EUA, which equals 1 ton of carbon dioxide, was around EUR 12,5.

As an immediate measure to prevent further losses France, the Netherlands, the UK and most recently Spain, have all changed their taxation rules on these transactions. After these measures were taken, the market volume in the aforementioned countries dropped by up to 90 percent.

With the support of Belgium, Denmark, France, the Netherlands, Spain and the United Kingdom Europol has set up a specific project to collect and analyse information in order to identify and disrupt the organised criminal structures behind these fraud schemes. There are reasons to believe that fraudsters might soon migrate towards the gas and electricity branches of the energy sector.

Mr. Wainwright, Director of Europol, says "These criminal activities endanger the credibility of the European Union Emission Trading System and lead to the loss of significant tax revenue for governments. Europol is using its expertise and information capabilities to help target the organised crime groups involved". Europol has therefore offered its support to the European Commission - DG Environment to safeguard the integrity of the Community Independent Transaction Log."

Background information

Missing trader intra-community fraud (MTIC) is the theft of Value Added Tax (VAT) from a government by organised crime groups who exploit the way VAT is treated within the member states of the EU.

The EU has the objective of limiting global warming to 2 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial levels, to reduce climate change and meet its obligations under the Kyoto Protocol. Each MS has granted its emitting facilities a certain amount of emission rights by means of a National Allocation Plan. These emission rights can be traded like any other commodity on the market. The transfer of greenhouse gas emission allowances is a taxable supply of services.

In Europe there are 6 trading platforms: European Climate Exchange (London, UK), Nordic Power Exchange (Oslo, Norway), European Energy Exchange (Leipzig, Germany), Energy Exchange Austria (Graz, Austria), Climex (Amsterdam, the Netherlands) and BlueNext (Paris, France) and various other market platforms such as SENDECO2, Italian Power Exchange GME and most recently Greenmarket, set up by Deutsche Bank at the Munich exchange. More than 2 billion EUAs have been allocated to 12.000 emitting facilities in the 27 MS. The EU carbon market is estimated to be worth about €90 billion a year!

The Emissions Trading Scheme (EU ETS) was created as a cap-and-trade system for transactions of European Unit Allowances. Each transfer of EUAs is recorded in a national registry before it is centrally stored in the Community Independent Transaction Log (CITL) at the EU Commission.

Carbon credit fraud is a variation on the VAT carousel fraud. The attached graphic shows how carbon credit carousel fraud works.

Hey Soros says the the carbon credit slush fund should be $100 billion!!

Soros pitches idea of 100-billion-dollar climate fund

GLOW BALL warming scam is justification for the cap n trade trillion dollar skimmers.

You just need enough dupes to vote for the schtick and you have a never ending revenue stream.

That where the real game is...


Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief

1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North"

Posted by: Hans Rupprecht at December 11, 2009 12:24 PM

I am glad Kate's been focusing on Climategate. This is my "go to" site for all matters climategate. Like a good denier, I am in the process of trying to educate by less interested friends as to the implications of Copenhagen etc., and in order to stay on top of it on a daily basis, all I need to do is come to this site. Keep up the good work Kate!

Posted by: Littlebones at December 11, 2009 12:33 PM

Kate, keep focusing on this BS warming issue because the intent of the socialists/commies in the UN is to make Canadian consumers and taxpayers much poorer and people need to be made aware how much cap and trade will cost them and the country.
We know MSM will not do that so keep up the good work.

Posted by: dastardly at December 11, 2009 12:49 PM

how does that saying go....

"the road to valhalla is strewn with those of good intentions"

O - both of 'em

keep it coming Kate. we can take it.

Posted by: puddin n pie at December 11, 2009 12:51 PM

My only question: When does it cease being sloppy science and cross the line into outright fraud?

Posted by: gordinkneehill at December 11, 2009 12:53 PM


As many here know, I'm a big fan of Marshall Macluhan. He once wrote "All myth is compressed wisdom".

May I suggest, that on climate change, the operable myth is neither "Chicken Little" nor "A Stitch in Time", but rather "King Canute"?

Posted by: KevinB at December 11, 2009 1:05 PM

Extreme temps for Sask. for the next few days. Windchill in the -40's. Hey Al baby, want to stop by and feel that global warming b.s. of yours? The normal temps are somewhere around -5 to -16 I think.

I'm beginning to seriously believe these enviro turkeys are really trying to kill us. I'd say this goes beyond just fraud. It's closer to a declaration of war against the population. They want to put us back in the dark ages because of a bloody non-existent problem. If Harper signs anything, we should go marching in the streets, for starters. I'm really sick of this crap. There are more of us then there are of them.

Keep the heat on Kate. Good job.

Posted by: Terry Anderson at December 11, 2009 1:12 PM

It is an interesting coincidence, that once I said to myself: 'these new 2 Terabyte hard drives really make a difference in data storage - one can store entire history of humankind on an array size of a second bedroom these days', the data deletion story came up.

Posted by: Aaron at December 11, 2009 1:14 PM

Climate-Gate has already exposed GISS and NOAA as socialist conspirators and we suspected that Enviro-Canada was we have some evidence.
The question is will it need an election and/or a Macabean-like event to purge the commies from the swivellel service?
We see the same single minded continuation/propagation of LIBRANO policy at Justice Canada.....BS statistics supporting the registry etc....

Posted by: sasquatch at December 11, 2009 1:15 PM

Where's the surface station at YYC? That airport has gone through a lot of changes in the last 20 years.

I suspect that Alberta readings are more accurate than most other locations. The never ending wind would tend to cool down any heat from local sources, allowing the ambient temperature to stay constant.

Posted by: dp at December 11, 2009 1:17 PM

The Environment Canada office at McCall in Calgary was actually shut down for nearly a decade, starting in 1999?, so I don't know how they were able to come up with this data.

Posted by: Oz at December 11, 2009 1:23 PM

There's something wrong with the blink comparator graph, the "now" data from GISS today doesn't match up with the plot in his graph which purports to be now.

I'm looking into this.

Posted by: Anthony Watts at December 11, 2009 1:28 PM

I've used the resources here, and at WUWT, to deprogram at least four "greenies" who had no idea of the nature of the hoax they were propping up until the Climategate e-mails hit the Net. Now they're out trying to deprogram their friends.

SDA really DOES get results.

Posted by: Sean at December 11, 2009 1:29 PM

It is this kind of data adjustment without apparent reason that needs in-depth investigation. The e-mails, while interesting at revealing the mindset of the climate scientists, only hint at the extent of their 'tricks'. The graphs of statistical tweaking provides evidence of how they did it. The refusal to comply with FOI requests and raw data destruction then reinforces the data manipulation theory. If it can be proven that it is manipulation then the AGW theory should be dead in the water.

I appreciate all the energy you and others (WUWT, M&M etc.) have put into exposing the AGW deception.

Posted by: LC Bennett at December 11, 2009 1:30 PM

Interesting conversation here:

Posted by: Michael at December 11, 2009 1:38 PM

Does anyone know of a good 'letter to Grandma explaining climategate' type article that one could print out and leave in the coffee room at work or with the magazines in the doctor's office or slip into those stacks of the socialist rag Planet S or other spots where people have time to read while they wait for something?
Most of us here are news junkies but there are people who aren't and who are just getting the spin from the MSM.
The MSM won't do their job so someone has to.
We could call it our Climategate Action Plan.
This is the fraud of the century and the more people understand that the better.

Any suggestions?

Posted by: Stan, the other one at December 11, 2009 1:47 PM

Here is a simple fact of climate science, the Climategate scientists and data modelers at the heart of the issue developed the adjustments for homogenizing the data, it is used in some form by all the climate records. See Canada adjustments recently here.

If everyone is doing the same thing that is why you get the same results from three different records. This is a key part of addressing the argument that all long term climatic temperature records show the warming.

These adjustments were pioneered by NASA GISS and basically replicated through out the science community. When they are all basically applying the same adjustments they all get the same answers.

Three Monkeys trained to push the blue button when together and then are sent to three different labs will continue to push the blue button...

Posted by: Illiquid Assets at December 11, 2009 1:48 PM

Kate: keep up the awesome work - this is the most important peacetime issue and scandal
of our lives and deserves the attention.

I trust that Adler rutherford et al will be getting minister prentice on air pronto. Heads should roll.

Posted by: Gord Tulk at December 11, 2009 1:58 PM

Gore and Suzuki, and millions of cultists, believe that AGW is the most important issue facing humanity. I agree - because I don't want my son and his descendants to live like worker bees in a hive filling the pockets of totalitarian scum like Gore and Suzuki.

Kate, thanks for compiling and publishing so much of what the world really needs to know about this, and please do keep up the good work.

Posted by: Michael H Anderson at December 11, 2009 2:00 PM

Kate: keep up the awesome work - this is the most important peacetime issue and scandal
of our lives and deserves the attention.

I trust that Adler rutherford et al will be getting minister prentice on air pronto. Heads should roll.

Posted by: Gord Tulk at December 11, 2009 2:03 PM

Kate, Stan is dead wrong!
This story is huge and I am relying on SDA to gather the latest on this story.

I am a private researcher and have never seen a more serious case of fraud with such a detrimental effect on the globe's economy.

No other story really matches up to what you are doing here.

These guys want to keep 1.6 billion people in perpetual poverty while at the same time enrich themselves with both money and power.

I am deeply grateful for what you are doing, so continue to keep up the good work!

Posted by: Claude at December 11, 2009 2:11 PM

Well it looks like things are about to hit the fan big time as the US and China are in a brawl at Copenhagen about ... guess what ... enviro$$$ !

> Chinese official calls US negotiator irresponsible
> By KARL RITTER (AP) – 25 minutes ago
> COPENHAGEN — China's Vice Foreign Minister He Yafei on Friday said the chief U.S. climate negotiator either lacks common sense or is "extremely irresponsible" for saying that no U.S. climate financing should be going to China.
> In unusually blunt language, He said he was "shocked" by U.S. climate envoy Todd Stern's comments earlier this week that China shouldn't expect any American climate aid money and that the United States was not in any debt to the world for its historical carbon emissions.

Posted by: Brian at December 11, 2009 2:16 PM

Good work Kate press on indeed! We CAN handle the truth! Particularly with the EU and PM Brown in England falling all over themselves to give Billions to this Greenie Ponzi scheme. A little strange how Al Gore has disappeared down the "rabbit hole" the last few days,

Posted by: Bubba Brown at December 11, 2009 2:19 PM

Go for it Kate. I love the series.

Posted by: RCGZ at December 11, 2009 2:19 PM

Freedom of speach at the UN Climate Summit. NOT!

Posted by: Rob @ dailyrasp at December 11, 2009 2:33 PM

Stan is wrong. I'm a regular reader as well and I'm checking SDA, wattsupwiththat constantly. This story is massive. And deserves the attention with what is at stake it is the most important story.

The climate change AGW crowd is trying to get away with a massive bastardization of capitalism with carbon trading.

A Financial Post editor echos the position of the Chinese government in favor of a global one child policy. Advocating the biggest infringement on personal liberty possible.

All of this because a small group of scientists have manipulated temperature records.

I don't know of any other story that is more important right now.

Posted by: Craig at December 11, 2009 2:33 PM

Getting back to the thread's (actual)topic...;)
My beef with statistics couldn't be better illustrated than here. The graph apparently shows nodes at Summer highs and Winter lows; the averaged temp tells nothing except a homogenized meaningless trend.
A record setting brutally cold and long Winter, followed by an exceptionally dry and hot Summer, is reduced to porridge.
5 years of Cream of Wheat instead of a Prairie dustbowl...

Posted by: DaninVan at December 11, 2009 3:17 PM

Rob @ dailyrasp, I watched that video and once again the folks who have been caught with their pants down are falling back on this useless meme that the emails were private.

In the last two jobs that I have had (in Alberta and Saskatchewan respectively), the law says that any document produced on the employer's computer resources on employer time is the property of the employer. By extention, it would be considered as releasable in a FOI request. If the law in the UK is similar, and it certainly should be for a publicly funded institution, then this notion that the emails are "private", like the research conducted at CRU itself, simply doesn't stand.

These folks are desperate.

Posted by: Louise at December 11, 2009 3:43 PM

@Stan: well, it's only you then. Live with it.

Importance of climategate cannot be underestimated.
The seduction of scientists by the 'dark side' is truly frightening and we need to get to the bottom of that - what their motivation was and how exactly they were motivated to undermine Western economy and establish global policies for transfer of Western wealth to the so-called '3d world', which strangely includes Russia and China.

For the sake of balance I have to state that if Russia and China did not have a reputation of countries which shoot first, ask questions later, on the premise that end justifies the means, I would not have worried as much.

For me it is blatantly obvious that the whole thing was engineered by the commies as the next round of Cold War, and a very clever one.

This is an issue of strategic importance to our survival and only relentless efforts of several individuals, not affiliated with the government and not supported by taxpayers, was able to undermine the looming crisis.

Posted by: Aaron at December 11, 2009 4:01 PM

Great! Thanks for the update. I can have lunch now.

Posted by: Anthony Watts at December 11, 2009 4:07 PM

Climategate is the most important issue out there and without the internet blogs it would have been spiked in the MSM. The huge increases in taxes, electricity and virtually everything you buy if a carbon trading scheme goes ahead justify every word to expose the warming sham. In addition we will have government with the authority to regulate every aspect of our lives in the name of climate change.
Go Kate!

Posted by: Rob H at December 11, 2009 4:14 PM

Calgary would be an interesting case. For years the temperature was taken down near the Bow River (av. temp 4C), later 5 miles away at the Airport on flat open plain. Any assumptions as to the effect on temperatures between the two is guesswork and could never be claimed with any degree of statistical accuracy.
Bogus science done for grant money.

Posted by: Rob H at December 11, 2009 4:24 PM

It still boils down to the Enviromental Minister will sign on to whatever the USA decides. If the Government of Canada signs anything, before studying the facts, then I would join those on the streets protesting.

All this because the PM is afraid of losing a few votes from enviromentalists and the fear spread by Dr, Fruitfly. At this particular time, the first time, I am losing faith in the PM doing what is right for Canada. Like I said before, we will know by Christmas.

Posted by: Clown Party at December 11, 2009 4:26 PM

I'm with all of your other supporters, Kate. Keeping this travesty alive is the most important thing that we can do for ours and future generations.
Btw, you were terrific on Adler today and I am a proud supporter of all the great things you do to enlighten engaged Canadians.

Posted by: Bec at December 11, 2009 4:34 PM

Too bad that the meeting is being held in Copenhagen and not here in Saskatoon. Windchill warnings -40 to -45 C. But it's a dry cold.

Posted by: Deb at December 11, 2009 4:37 PM

Trillions of dollars rest in the balance here , stay the course Kate .

Posted by: Bill D. Cat at December 11, 2009 4:46 PM

can I do the same thing with some of my less-than-stellar high school marks?

LOL !!!

has this hit the late nite comedy shows yet?

you've all noticed the traffic here at sda too. 400,000+ since the last and very recent milestone. keep at them Kate.

trillions of dollars at stake hinging on lies lies and more lies. still no word on the identity of the whistleblower, God bless them.

Posted by: curious_george at December 11, 2009 5:02 PM

I think I posted on this subject of "period of record adjustment" in another thread.

Before people go off on too big a rant, you need to become aware that the "climatological day" was changed at some point 60-70 years ago, which tended to make later records colder ... the reason is that days with constant temperature falls that produce daily minima in the evening hours (and these are not rare in Canadian winter patterns) used to be cut off earlier so that you would get higher monthly averages "back then" than you do "nowadays" given the same actual data.

As an example, say that it hovers around -18 C all day then starts falling sharply at sundown to reach -35 C at midnight. Nowadays, that would go into the records as high of -18, low of -35 ... but in the 1930s a day like that would go into the books as more like -18, -20. That happens often enough that an adjustment is required to compare data sets. I think the adjustment being used is a bit generous, but it's not just an outright fraudulent attempt to add to the "evidence" for AGW.

As for the California station that supposedly was warmer in the 1880s than nowadays, that would make it the only place on earth that was, as the 1880s were a very cold decade generally. I suspect that station may have been relocated to cause the discrepancy.

The winters of the 1880s were even worse than the past two, so it was no MWP that's for sure.

Posted by: Peter O'Donnell at December 11, 2009 5:26 PM

Last winter I was convinced that E.Can, was fudging the coldest numbers.
Their weather site would say for example, the high today is -12c then it's clearly not any higher than -22c for the day.
The next day their site DID not corrected to what the actualy temp was but left at what they predicted.
This happened several times.

Never use their site for weather predictions/conditions any longer.'s much more accurate.
And NEXRAD Radar is the best for tracking bad weather -proiding you reside close to the border.

Kate thanks again for doing the job that our publicly funded corrupted cbc skanks won't do.

Posted by: ldd at December 11, 2009 5:31 PM

dp I'm not sure about the veracity of Alberta temperatures but since they built the Edmonton International Airport the Urban Heat Island effect was announced every morning. The temperature at the downtown airport remains a degree or two warmer than the temperature at the International Airport.

Posted by: Joe at December 11, 2009 5:32 PM

For Stan, the other one, @ 1:47 p.m., who asks, "Does anyone know of a good 'letter to Grandma explaining climategate' type article that one could print out and leave in the coffee room at work or with the magazines in the doctor's office or slip into those stacks of the socialist rag Planet S or other spots where people have time to read while they wait for something?"

I think this article by the incomparable Charles Krauthammer fills the bill.

In Canada, David Warren at the Ottawa Citizen is writing great stuff too.

Keep up the heat, Kate! Thanks.

Posted by: lookout at December 11, 2009 5:43 PM

Peter O'D at 5.26 pm

According to my old geography textbook, the maximum- minimum thermometer was invented in the 1780's, so recording temperatures when it was convenient to go to bed likely stopped shortly after that. People have always had a morbid curiosity about the weather, and they wouldn't have stood for a data entry that they knew was wrong. Systematic rearrangement of data was only invented when politicians got involved.

Posted by: kakola at December 11, 2009 5:44 PM

The Canadian Delegation .. . 4 pages of tax payer funded Christmas Shopping in Copenhagen.

Who are these people?

Posted by: Fred at December 11, 2009 5:46 PM


Fully support your emphasis on climategate. This is unfolding as the greatest scientific and economic scandal of the last 100 years.

Governments, NGO's, corporations, and other rent seekers are in Copenhagen right now attempting to to implement a global command and control economy. They believe what history denied them in the 20th century junk science will unlock in the 21st.

We are still in the denial phase. It's going to take a while for honest scientists to go through this and start publishing, for "climate change correspondents" to re-tool their careers, and for co-opted political leaders to slowly back away.

Keep posting on this Kate. If this isn't a situation calling for tenacious bloggers there never will be one.

Posted by: Bart F. at December 11, 2009 5:53 PM

Fred at 5:46pm

Skimming through the list I actually see one or two brave souls who are likely skeptics. The vast majority, however are hacks, sycophants, followers, and opportunists looking for "green" handouts.

Few, I fear, have ever held a real job, and many of them most likely got fired.

Posted by: kakola at December 11, 2009 6:13 PM


If one looks at the "balance of probabilities", as they say, it looks like the climate scientists mission is to accentuate modern warming and minimize all past warming not objectively track changes. The balance really tips when you add in "tricks", "hiding the decline", splicing, truncating, homogenizing, other unexplained adjustments, resistance to FOI requests, meddling in the peer review process, and data destruction. These scientists used up their benefit of the doubt credits long ago.

Posted by: LC Bennett at December 11, 2009 6:15 PM

Keep up the coverage Kate as this topic has had me riveted to my computer screen for the last 2 weeks (except when working).

It is crucial now that archived climate data be backed up. There is no way that I want to have to go through microfilms of old newspapers to manually extract temperature data day by day to reconstruct temperature records. I've been grabbing data when I get a chance to and storing in on my computers. Environment Canada appears to have old unadjusted data and the most important dates to be backed appear to be the late 1800's and period 1920-1940. If that data suddenly starts disappearing then we'll know for sure that there's something very rotten in Denmark.

I suggest that people save raw temperature data (while they can get it) for their local areas. Grab every local weather station you can and make a couple of copies that are not on the same disk. What appears to be happening here is the rewriting of history to conform to some warped ideology. Any individual who calls himself a scientist who has participated in the willing destruction of raw data should be forever banished from the scientific community. Whether or not any criminal charges can be laid here is not in my area of expertise. I was going to suggest putting the files on bittorrent, but we need some way of verifying the authenticity of the temperature files.

Thus far we have seen these "adjustments" show up in NZ, the Darwin Australia data, in the US and in Calgary which suggests an international conspiracy. These findings of data tampering need to be checked and rechecked by unbiased individuals and if they they hold up the UN is going to be hit with a shitstorm far larger than it could have imagined in its worst nightmares.

Posted by: loki at December 11, 2009 6:42 PM

Aaron @ 4:01. I agree with you on this. Executed relatives have a powerful influence on how one views attempts to diminish democracy.

Posted by: Ken (Kulak) at December 11, 2009 6:45 PM

Please do not criticize Stan for posting honest feedback. Opinions are personal, and should not be deemed "wrong".

Kate responded respectfully and clearly, and Stan has yet to comment.

I think that Kate is posting AGW commentary for an international audience, primarily any country whose government is centre or left of centre, and thus their media is not communicating this issue.

My primary irritant with the MSM is their continued use of the phrase "stolen e-mails" without any evidence indicating who "stole" them, or how they were "stolen". I believe that since no evidence has been presented since they were first posted, the odds these were stolen is about 0.01%.

Unfortunately, I am a realist, as well as a Libertarian. I believe an evil leftist treaty will be signed, but within the next 5 years the fraud will be completely exposed. Just add an "integrity of data" clause in the treaty, that provides immmediate opt out for all signees should the data supporting AGW lack integrity. To not do this would be akin to supporting created data for trillion dollar transfer payments. Not that this isn't happening already. Man, this is frustrating.

Posted by: Dave in Mississauga at December 11, 2009 7:22 PM

who is the Minister of Environment? Oh, yeah. The Carbon Taxer of Doom.

He likes numbers.

Posted by: hardboiled at December 11, 2009 8:22 PM

what is so difficult about reading comments here is how lost you all are.

Prentice and your Conservative Government have already done a Carbon Tax (Cap and Trade).

The money is committed. The budgets built. The 'green agenda' fulfilled.

You are all whistling past the graveyard. Your pocket has been picked.

And yet - all you have is indignation.

It's all you will ever have.

Posted by: hardboiled at December 11, 2009 8:25 PM

Stan the other one @1:47 -- try "Understanding the Hidden Decline" by Mark Sheppard, Dec. 6, 2009 on the American Thinker blog in the Articles section. It really helped me to understand the issue about tree rings. And the "Musings from the Chiefio" blog has some eye-popping stuff about how they have eliminated a lot of land thermometers and moved the few remaining ones down from the mountains and onto beaches (I'm not making this up!) over the past few years around the world.
Kate -- Please keep focusing on this! You are my go-to cite because as far as the NY Times and the Washington Post are concerned, it's over, all settled, move along. You are doing a wonderful service for those of us who had some doubts but thought maybe we were just being pigheaded. Thank you so much.

Posted by: Carol at December 11, 2009 8:48 PM

Don't be so hard on Stan. In all honesty I can say that after all this time, I cannot add anything to the discussion I have not mentioned before or anything that has been observed by other loyal readers. Except maybe that listening to the MSM has driven me to throw things at my boob tube or switch to the Discovery Channel. kind of like health care, eh.

Posted by: Texas Canuck at December 11, 2009 8:56 PM

Post by: Stan at December 11, 2009 12:12 PM

The debate is over..... here

Climate "skepticism" is not a morally defensible position. The debate is over, and it's been over for quite some time, especially on this blog.

We will delete comments which deny the absolutely overwhelming scientific consensus on climate change, just as we would delete comments which questioned the reality of the Holocaust or the equal mental capacities and worth of human beings of different ethnic groups. Such "debates" are merely the morally indefensible trying to cover itself in the cloth of intellectual tolerance.

Thank God for SDA
Thank God for Kate

Posted by: bruce wayne riley at December 11, 2009 9:08 PM

Posted by: bruce wayne riley at December 11, 2009 9:08 PM

Shut up, and pay the Carbon Tax.

Posted by: hardboiled at December 11, 2009 9:22 PM


I find it "morally indefensible" paying the Carbon Tax.

Posted by: bruce wayne riley at December 11, 2009 9:29 PM

Yep. Suck it up, and cut a cheque. They aren't moral.

Prentice needs your cash.

Posted by: hardboiled at December 11, 2009 9:32 PM

Then target Prentice in his riding. Make him sweat.

Posted by: Kate at December 11, 2009 9:59 PM

[quote]COPENHAGEN — China's Vice Foreign Minister He Yafei on Friday said the chief U.S. climate negotiator either lacks common sense or is "extremely irresponsible" for saying that no U.S. climate financing should be going to China.
> In unusually blunt language, He said he was "shocked" by U.S. climate envoy Todd Stern's comments earlier this week that China shouldn't expect any American climate aid money and that the United States was not in any debt to the world for its historical carbon emissions.[/quote] Brian

I love it when my bastards (USA) get the AGW fraud shoved up thier butts...Everyone is going to demand the MONEY,, MONEY.. Why not? . The USA has faked evidence and that evidence proves the US is responsible. You create a phony problem you fix it

It's good that Soros is holding 2B for South Africa.... Gore is afraid he will be arrested & tried in Iberia; he is holding 100M for them.

The next generation of inbred Bastards will be fertilized in Copenhagen.

Posted by: Slap Shot at December 11, 2009 10:01 PM

Bruce, here is the comment I left at that site.

"Interesting.The debate is over.O.K...I don't believe any debate is truly ever over, that's why they call it, you know, a debate.., but let's take your statement at face value.

If the world does not come to a flaming end, and the sea does not rise 20 meters, and the alarmist approach is found to have been wrong, will we see an apology from any of the people who were incorrect?

Will we see a refund of the billions of dollars that were pumped into a theory that we were told was the undeniable truth? Will you say you were wrong?

I know that you are concerned for the welfare of your fellow man, so I am sure that you or ,say, Al Gore, would not have a problem issuing a mea culpa on some day, 20 years from now, when we're all still here.

On the other hand, if what is being spoken as the gospel truth is the reality planned for humanity regardless of the outcome, can you please inform us how many articles of clothing we will be allowed to bring to the gulag that is being prepared for humanity out of all this?

Best to be prepared, and all that.."

Posted by: Kursk at December 11, 2009 10:31 PM

The statements made above about the max-min thermometer, etc, are irrelevant, the fact remains that operational procedure at Canadian weather stations changed some time around the end of WW-II. I am not making this up, I could point you to discussions of it on weather forums but also it is obvious from the climate data pre-1940 where you can find days with a higher "minimum" than the next day's maximum. That only happens when the diurnal periods for mins and maxes are different.

I'm a skeptic myself, have been for a lot longer than many of you even heard of these issues. So I am not sure what the name calling is really about.

My concern (and "angle") is to prevent our side from scoring on our own net by displaying elementary ignorance of some of the details of this debate.

Temperature data from before 1945 has always been adjusted downward to account for the changes in observational procedure. The question is whether the magnitude of the correction being used here is appropriate. It looks awfully generous to me.

Meanwhile, I notice a nasty little slug of -40 air coming down from the high arctic and settling in for the weekend over the prairies. These are the more obvious weapons in the arsenal against the AGW hoax.

Another persective that might have mileage is that the media seem to think Tiger Woods is a bigger scandal than climategate.

Final thought -- please try to keep in mind that there was a real "climate science" in place before this scandalous situation developed; that science had established standards and procedures, and some older workers from that field have spoken out about the misuse of data by younger workers trained more extensively in Marxist concepts of political correctness.

Others, some of them very well known in Canada, have remained silent. Instead of making fun of me, a blacklisted dissident scientist, may I suggexst that you get on their cases, as their public statements would have far more impact than mine. I am more or less a non-citizen after a lifetime of social ostracism. I have spoken out about this issue for many years, including those when it was on the back burner even in the conservative blogosphere.

Posted by: Peter O'Donnell at December 11, 2009 10:46 PM

Kursk at December 11, 2009 10:31 PM

That was reasonable and sane, but unfortunately I fear your effort will be scrubbed clean, you being morally wrong and all.

The patients are in the driver seat of the asylum, solar (spotless)/wind (intermittent)driven of course.

Posted by: bruce wayne riley at December 11, 2009 11:02 PM

I went to Environment Canada and plotted their raw data and I found no pattern. Some years the chart shown had higher readings and other lower values.
For your information the readings are here:
1884 1926 5.1 1968 3.1
1885 4.3 1927 2.1 1969 2.4
1886 3.4 1928 5.3 1970 3.1
1887 1.3 1929 3.7 1971 3.2
1888 2.7 1930 4.6 1972 2
1889 4.8 1931 5.9 1973 3.5
1890 2.8 1932 3.1 1974 4.1
1891 3.8 1933 3 1975 2.8
1892 3.4 1934 5.4 1976 5.1
1893 1935 2.9 1977 4
1894 3.8 1936 3 1978 2.7
1895 2.9 1937 3.7 1979 3.2
1896 2.2 1938 4.6 1980 4
1897 2.8 1939 4.3 1981 5.9
1898 3.2 1940 3.7 1982 2.3
1899 1.5 1941 4.8 1983 4.3
1900 3.6 1942 3.9 1984 4.2
1901 4 1943 4.4 1985 3.8
1902 2.7 1944 4.9 1986 5.3
1903 3.1 1945 2.8 1987 6.7
1904 2.8 1946 4.1 1988 5.6
1905 4 1947 3.7 1989 3.9
1906 4.1 1948 2.9 1990 4.5
1907 2.6 1949 3.3 1991 5
1908 4.7 1950 1.3 1992 5
1909 2.3 1951 1.2 1993 4.1
1910 4.7 1952 3.9 1994 4.3
1911 2 1953 4.4 1995 3.7
1912 4.2 1954 2.9 1996 1.7
1913 4.5 1955 1.5 1997 4.3
1914 4.8 1956 2.9 1998 4.6
1915 5.4 1957 3.4 1999 5.1
1916 3 1958 4.4 2000 3.7
1917 3.4 1959 3.3 2001 4.9
1918 5.4 1960 4.1 2002 3.8
1919 4.1 1961 4.6 2003 4.2
1920 3 1962 4.4 2004 5
1921 4.3 1963 4.9 2005 4.9
1922 3.9 1964 3.6 2006 5.7
1923 4.9 1965 2.3 2007 4.7
1924 4 1966 2.5 2008 4.5
1925 4.2 1967 3.5
The blank readings were not reported

Posted by: ES at December 12, 2009 1:40 AM

Peter O'Donnell:

May I say that I always appreciate your calm, well reasoned posts? I believe you write with the authority of one who has real experience, and rational thought, about the climate field.

It's not that I don't enjoy the invective here, some of it coarse, some of it funny, not all of it accurate. And, truth be told, I've been guilty of all three myself, so I hold myself as no paragon. But I do agree with you that the importance of not scoring an "own goal" is, or at least should be, at the top of our list.

Rather than choose individual posters here, I'll take examples like Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck. It's not that I disagree with their general world view; I don't. It's not that I don't think they bring many important issues to light and scrutiny; they do. But they both go off on such tangents, use such hyperbole (memo to Glenn: stop crying!), and make such outrageous claims that they become, first, natural targets for the MSM, and second, a brush with which the MSM tar all people who disagree with their agenda.

I still watch The Daily Show on a regular basis. It's not that I generally agree with Jon Leibovitz, but I do think he's funny. And there are times when I cringe watching him, as he and his team display egregious errors, such as when Fox News replaced footage of a small fall rally in Washington, DC, with footage from the much larger summer rally. It's so easy to use such mistakes to discredit all and any who disagree with the MSM view.

So, please keep posting. I read them all, I try to understand them all, and I appreciate your efforts. Stay warm, my friend.

Posted by: KevinB at December 12, 2009 4:50 AM

with regards to Stan's query, from the comments over at the Reference Frame

[This user is an administrator] Harlow
Do you ever feel like you are preaching to the choir?
Today, 7:00:51 AM
– Flag – Like – Reply – Delete – Edit – Moderate
[This user is an administrator] Lubos Motl
Yes, but let me admit, I still find it more calming for the soul than the preaching to the unfixable infidels. Wink After all, the main point of my posting about anything is for all of us to learn something, and yes, it is much more likely that the "choir" will learn something than those, ehm, non-choir people.
Today, 7:12:18 AM

Kate is in good company and keeping up the good fight.

Chief Dan George: We thought about it for a long time, "Endeavor to persevere." And when we had thought about it long enough, we declared war on the Union.

Posted by: bruce wayne riley at December 12, 2009 3:31 PM