SDA gets results :)

Almost 51 million hits at Bing for clim(ategate) , wow .

Sounds more like a crash than a U-turn.
With flames.
wow
Sue them All

Sounds more like a crash than a U-turn.
With flames.
wow
Sue them All

Nobody on any blog or comments section in any newspaper has answered the "what would you cut challenge. They are all gutless and clueless but demand Canada "do something".

I repeat the challenge and hope everyone here asks their greenie friends. Challenge all the greenie do-gooders, the suzuki butt lickers, the socialist mumbo-jumbo morons the big city latte liberals, all the soft headed warm comfy fur types who think it will be painless to be part of the Great Carbon Ponzi Scheme.

In order to fall in line with the Copenhagen/COP15 agreement Canada needs to cut 150,000 Mt of carbon emissions from our annual level.
The table below lists the major carbon emission sources. So your task is to choose which areas of the Canadian economy to devastate . . . but you total cuts needs to add up to 150,000 Mt.
After you have figured out what parts of the economy need to go bye-bye, then address the COP 15 para 41 requirement . . . you know the one where it says Canada needs to start paying an annual amount equal to a minimum of 0.7% of our GDP for our "Climate Debt".
0.7% is about $9 billion dollars annually . . . so what are you going to cut out of the current Federal budget to free up $9+ billion annually ?
I'd cut Equalization payments to Provinces - but you-know-who would go ballistic because although they deny they are net recipients of Canadian largesse, they would whine like stuck pigs if their entitlement to the entitlement was cut off.
Electric/heat generation 126 000
Fossil Fuel Industries 70,000
Mining & Gas 23,000
Residential 40,000
Automobile 41, 000
Light Gas trucks 45, 000
Heavy Gas Trucks 6,640
Heavy Diesel Trucks 40,100
Railways 7,000
Off Road Diesel 25,000
Off Road Gas 6,7000
Domestic Aviation 7, 804
Metal Production 13, 800

My solution . . . take every car & truck off our roads, stop every train, ground every plane and tie up every ship.
That will meet the required target and shouldn't have too much of an impact on our economy.
Should it ?

Bet google has at least that many CG hits, but Fat Gore 'directed' them to tone it down.

Fred

Now isn't THAT an Inconvenient Truth?

Thanks for all your work at keeping us informed Kate.

I also sent an e-mail to Coren thanking him for 'going against the flow'. He suggests an e-mail to the editor as well.

“Climategate” surpasses “Global Warming” on Google

But autosuggest still blocked; WUWT

Thanks for all your work at keeping us informed Kate.

I also sent an e-mail to Coren thanking him for 'going against the flow'. He suggests an e-mail to the editor as well.

Fred;
How much would be saved if every Greenie quit breathing for ten yrs? (that's my solution to this non issue)

Discussion at WUWT re: google being 'in on it'.

Gore was introduced on CBC radio Wednesday as a 'board member of Google.'
I thought I was the last one to find out that little tid bit. Apparently not.

I read in the news today(Globe&Mail) comes the story that the so-called expanding Artic ice is just an illusion. The surface area is about the same but it's a lot thinner.
Multiyear ice used to cover 90% of the Artic basin, now it is roughly 20%. Where it use to be up to 10 meters thick, it's now 2 meters at the most.
Something's happening here. Yet you blockheads just don't want to get it, that climate warming is happening. All your huffing and puffing is not going to change that.

With apologies to the Buffalo Springfield

There's something happening here
What it is seems plenty clear
There's a man with facts over there
Telling me I got to beware

I think it's time we stop, children what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
It's climate warming, you bunch of clowns

There's battle lines being drawn
The right wing nuts are so very wrong
Young people speaking their minds
Getting so much resistance from behind
...........................................

These brigands say they will produce the data but how can they when they have declared "the dog ate their home-work?" Which is an offence in and of itself?
They are still stalling for time, and brazening it out.
They are stalling with this "....the university said it would make all the data accessible as soon as possible, once its Climatic Research Unit (CRU) had negotiated its release from a range of non-publication agreements."
They are hoping for Global Government in Copenhagen, which will negate any disclosure of "Inconvenient Truth".
It is time to hunt them down with dogs.

Nuckthing

What your esteemed 'scientist' did not state, is, exactly where he went, for how long, nor disclosed his track, so given that lack of information, I will take his rant with a grain of salt, a big grain.

Of course if he's traversing the edges of the ice floes, he will not find thick ice. But if he aimed at the north pole, and got there easy, thru '2 metres of ice' , then you might have something. Instead, it's a lack of information disclosed. Therefore, I will take his opinion as just another warmonger, like yourself, as one with blind faith, and no time for dissenting opinions or facts.

Tell me, how does transferring 0.7% of GDP to third world despots end globull warming? How does that stop CO2 emissions? it doesn't, as this jig is all about redistribution of wealth, and cherry picked data, as well as looking at events that are part of a natural evolution of the earth's natural climate system.

Where are all the hurricanes? Oops, another inconvenient truth.

More from TimesUK.
...-

"Climate change data dumped

SCIENTISTS at the University of East Anglia (UEA) have admitted throwing away much of the raw temperature data on which their predictions of global warming are based.

It means that other academics are not able to check basic calculations said to show a long-term rise in temperature over the past 150 years.

The UEA’s Climatic Research Unit (CRU) was forced to reveal the loss following requests for the data under Freedom of Information legislation.

The data were gathered from weather stations around the world and then adjusted to take account of variables in the way they were collected. The revised figures were kept, but the originals — stored on paper and magnetic tape — were dumped to save space when the CRU moved to a new building."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6936328.ece

The Antarctic ice sheet has been getting thicker . that is how it pushes out into the ocean.

the wobble in the earth's orbit tends to favour one pole at a time.

remember the alternative time when the arctic icesheet extended into Minnesota. I dont remember myself but it was only 10000 years ago.

Humans are a result of climate change not a cause. Try living anywhere north of Olduvai gorge
about 50,000 years ago.

My proposal ,Fred, is to shut down one city at a time for a month, no heat , no lights, no cars, you cant leave until the results of this nonsense sink in.

.
.
Look, you guys. With corruption of this magnitude, and as far-reaching as it is -- trillions of dollars, billions of people, lasting misery for centuries -- any self-respecting search engine should be producing results for "climategate" etc. BEFORE anything is typed in.

Like after a close-miss of an approaching 1 km sized asteroid, or bigger, there should be sirens wailing. NOT as a warning signal but as an ALL-CLEAR signal.

In the morning the paper-boys should be yelling on the street corners, the shoe-shiners and barbers should be relaying the good-news. It should be proclaimed from the pulpits tomorrow morning, as church-bells ring.

We are not going to fry after all. We can fart, guiltless.

"Beans, dear; beans! Let's have beans tonight."
.
.

Looks to me like Harper will have little trouble saying "no deal". Let them scream their heads off back at home, by the time he gets home there will be even more exposure even without the msm.

I am now using Bing as my search engine. The second thing I entered after "Climategate," was "Goodbye google." I got 8,900,000 hits.

Canuckguy, links please; not G&M article, but where they got their data on arctic ice.

Haven't heard any of this, so let us know.

Something's happening here.

Yeah, and what it is isn't clear to even you AGW cultists.

Try explaining away the increasing Antarctic ice with your factless Suzuki-approved talking points, idiot.

They have a TV program called Question Time on BBC in Britain where the public put questions to politicians and "celebrities". Climategate was one of the questions that came up this week. On the panel was Melanie Phillips who is a wicked climate change denier and some "comedian" called Marcus Brigstocke. When the issue of AGW came up Phillips essentially said it was bunk. Brigstocke and the BBC conditioned audience were horrified. One of the audience claimed the flooding recently in Cumbria was directly related to "global warming" I felt like shouting at the ignorant muppet "what about 1953 then?" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea_flood_of_1953
Some people are just beyond help I fear. I hope this scandal continues to grow but as far as the BBC and much of the media are concerned it is a non story. Even the leader of the supposi-tories David Cameron is still singing from the warmists hymn book. Mind you when they start shutting down Britain's worn out nuclear reactors in the next few years I suspect they will realise that keeping the power on is more important than appeasing these watermelon fanatics.

Waterhouse
You called some one an idiot.
I agree.
I believe his song was written on CRU graph paper. You know, the kind Mann uses to make bad hockey sticks.

Cru is using the "Trust us: defence.

In other places that is known as the:

Bernie Madoff defense
The Enron Defense
The "I didn't have tortuous relations with that data defense"

"were dumped to save space when the CRU moved to a new building"

I bet I could fit about 20 8Gb USB hard drives in my front pocket, and still sit comfortably. This would likely hold more raw data than could be analyzed in a person's lifetime.

I just entered clim at google.com and the suggested
matches list showed climategate as the first entry.
Picking that, Google found 5,430,000 references.

Fred;
How much would be saved if every Greenie quit breathing for ten yrs? (that's my solution to this non issue)

Not nearly enough, although the "sound" of Lizzie May being silent would be priceless.:)

supposi-tories?

Suprised they didn't try the ever popular "but the cat ate my raw data..."

Deleted original data.............

You know, in my previous career, my job was a surveyor, for construction and legal types of work.

We had various files of data that were created used, etc, but, above all else, what was most important, was keeping the 'raw data'. Those files were the bread and butter of the work. Without those, our work was not defensible, if mistakes were made. This was where we could re-create our modelling when things went awry.

Those scientists are idiots. Tossing your raw, original data is just moronic, especially in a controversial field like climate science.

This just starts to stink more by the minute.

Posted by: Canuckguy at 6:55 PM

yup (I'll not refer to you as an idiot as someone else in here did, as idiots do have feelings)the sea ice melted, and is re-appearing, and it will take time to get multi-year ice in some areas, fact it will take "multi-years, capice. Now as to why the ice melted in the first place, as it has done before as well, is because of ocean current changes, which has also occurred in times past. I have to suspect that A) you didn't receive the memo, or, B) you didn't read the news, as the IPCC, Hansen, and even Fat Gore admitted to the fact that it was current changes, and not Gorebulwarming , that caused the ice melt, just as it did in the late 1800's

Now unless you have something useful or intelligent to respond with, I would suggest that silence would be your best bet as to demonstrating that you have at least some intelligence

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/quirks-blog/

Another comment board that needs enlightment, by the Ceeb's own Bob McDonald, fellow traveller of Suzookis....

Fred at 6:39pm Thanks, Hear is something we can Propose to our earth muffins friends.
You can only drive your car once every 4 days +30,250
Heavy diesel trucks- can only deliver once every 4 days +30,025
Electrical and heat generation- No air conditioning and for winter thier would be a max setting on the thermostats of 10 degrees C.
+63,000
Residential - you would only be able to use your household appliances one day in 4 as well to catch up on the news and prepare your food and have a hot bath.+30,000

total 153,275 Mt (inflation)
Now the 9+ billion, Heavy fines for breaking the rules by earth muffins.

CRU Moving List:

Computer...check
Desk and chair...check
Grant applications...check
Coffee mug and ethical coffee...check
Personally autographed copy of An Inconvenient Truth...check
Crucial raw data hardcopies and databases...unnecessary clutter

Seems reasonable to me.

The song For What It's Worth, written by Steven Stills in 1966, was actually about the run-ins between the cops and the hippies over the closing of Pandora's Box, a club on the Sunset Strip in West Hollywood.

For what it's worth, herein lies the irony Canuckguy surely missed -- that once the contents of Pandora's Box has escaped, it can't be put back again.

but remember wingwalker that the only thing left in pandora's box was 'hope'...

NOT 'hope and change....'

How much, PM Harper? How many of our tax dollars have gone to Gaia?

Canada is fleeced by the AGWarmists.

Did you vote Conservative for this?
...-

"Canada agrees to contribute to $10-billion climate-change fund

Canada has agreed to write a cheque for a $10-billion (U.S.) fund that would help poor nations cope with the consequences of climate change but Prime Minister Stephen Harper isn’t budging on calls for his government to offer deeper and faster cuts in greenhouse gas emissions."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/canada-agrees-to-contribute-to-10-billion-climate-change-fund/article1381653/

When I was in school you got a failing grade for not showing your work.

...*in my best Ronald Reagan voice*...

"Mr. Harper, tear up that check!"

.
.
Wikipee piddle (same puddle)...

"Small differences in initial conditions (such as those due to rounding errors in numerical computation) yield widely diverging outcomes for chaotic systems, rendering long-term prediction impossible in general."

"Chaotic behavior can be observed in many natural systems, such as the weather."

Maybe it would have dried up, but now it won't?
.
.

Attention Shamrock:
I don't have links to the data, it's Saturday's article in the Globe&Mail. The fellow is 'one of Canada's top northern researchers' ,a David Barber who holds the chair in Artic science at the University of Manitoba. His findings are soon to be published in the journal Geophysical Research Letters. Meanwhile just read the article in the newspaper.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/arctic-sea-ice-has-nearly-vanished-expert-fears/article1381174/

Lost your original data!!

HA HA HA!!

This has got to be the biggest

"THE DOG ATE MY HOMEWORK" goes global excuse

since Bernie Madoff started injecting steroids into his ponzie scheme.

NO CHECKS, NO BALANCES, NO TREATY!

Cheers

Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief

1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North"

The science is scuttled.

and the AGW BS wagon keeps spreading it manure...

Polar Bears resort to cannibalism due to you guessed it AGW!!!

Polar bears turn into cannibals

Melting ice caps make hunting seals more difficult

Scientists say shrinking Arctic sea ice may be forcing some polar bears into cannibalizing young cubs.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/11/28/11961626-sun.html

When is the LSM going to come up with the AGW causes humans to resort to cannibalism story?

Oh please your desperation is so obvious...

Cheers

Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief

1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North"

Deleting or cooking data! If you are an assayist for
a gold mine, or a medical researcher, or a biochemist, that can get you a stay in the local penitentiary. Lab books are legal documents.
My biochemistry colleagues lock theirs up in safes every night. The Baltimore-Imanishi-Kari affair turned on the possibility that data had been invented.

I don't know what the practice is with large data sets, but I intend to ask.

The Had Crew have erased the original data. This is the only possible explanation if they do not produce it.

I might add to my above post that entries in a lab book
should be made in ink, and if an entry is corrected it is to be crossed out, in ink,
so that it remains legible, and the correction written above it, in ink.

These people at the CRU are not scientists!!!!!!!

To those patriotic Canadians calling for Canada's dismissal from the Commonwealth, it would be the Commonwealth's loss, not ours.

wingwalker: "Mr. Harper, tear up that check!"

Oooh, good one. I am so stealing that.

DanBC- I was a survey party chief for many years. On several occasions, I've had to refer to field notes from the 1883 Alberta township survey, in order to re-establish evidence. I don't know where they store this stuff, but notes I made in 1980 are still available for reference.

No real scientist would discard raw data. I'm sure that Charles Darwin's raw data is still in a safe place. Newton's notes are probably in a safe place. If this is such an earth shattering event they're studying, they really need to keep the raw data safe. Without it, the models are absolutely meaningless.

One of the most unfortunate situations I've come across, is the practise of storing land title information on microfiche. Alberta's EUB stored every survey plan on microfiche for decades. After 30 years, those plans are impossible to read. The same is true for certain types of land title documents. If landowners haven't kept copies tucked in an old desk drawer, there is no readable copy in existence.

“We do not hold the original raw data but only the value-added (quality controlled and homogenised) data.”

Sorry Phil., That is scientifically equivalent to the work never having been done.

gary- It's also the legal equivalent to the work never having been done. I didn't realize this before reading all these enlightening comments.

Climategate/watergate - who will be this current scandal's Rosemary woods?

"Fiercely loyal to Nixon, Woods claimed responsibility in 1974 grand jury testimony for inadvertently erasing up to 5 minutes of the 18 1/2 minute gap in one of the Nixon audio tapes (specifically, the one from June 20, 1972) that were central to the scandal. Her demonstration of how this might have occurred—which depended upon her stretching to simultaneously press controls several feet apart (what the press dubbed the "Rose Mary Stretch"[3]) was met with skepticism from those who believed the erasures, from whatever source, to be deliberate."

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_Mary_Woods?wasRedirected=true

So, just noticing a trend here....freedom of information requests being circumvented, emails alluding to improper behavior regarding FOI requests....leaked/hacked files that seem to be organized for an FOI release....raw data missing, "oops! It's been erased!"....Perhaps the deletion of the raw data, instead of including it in the FOI release, is what finally triggered a moral alarm somewhere...

By the way, it is not necessarily impossible to retrieve the raw data, assuming one has the code that performed the "value adding". However, reverse-engineering the code to retrieve it is probably covered under the DMCA and will result in charges...

One of the first things a farmer or naturalist learns....if you see one rat or weed...you will find another and another and another....

This fella:
"David Barber who holds the chair in Artic science at the University of Manitoba"
....couldn't possibly be misleading us?...now could he? Why that would be like the Hadley CRU making stuff up now...wouldn't it?
My BS meter is on overload....

Any lawyers out there interested in starting a class action suit against the CRU? Thats the kind of green economics I can support.

Way to go colin from mission BC! On a previous climategate thread (Nov. 24) you posted a letter you wrote to CBC and the PM's office - I just wanted to let you know I thought it was very well written and result worthy.

Step #1 "Canada agrees to contribute to $10-billion climate-change fund

Canada has agreed to write a cheque for a $10-billion (U.S.) fund that would help poor nations cope with the consequences of climate change but Prime Minister Stephen Harper isn’t budging on calls for his government to offer deeper and faster cuts in greenhouse gas emissions."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/canada-agrees-to-contribute-to-10-billion-climate-change-fund/article1381653/ Posted by: maz2

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

I've been saying this for about a month now. Nothing to see here. I would demand of the Canadian government stop its foreign aide funds by $10 billion. I bet the opposition parties would cry about tghe cut to foreign aide and not a sentence about this $10,000,000,000.00. This should be voted on in paralament, in a fee vote. This way we can see who believes on Global Warming and those who would rather stand for the truth.

Step #2 is setting a unattainable carbon emissions goal ... just to prove to Canadians that he is not interested in facts but taken over by enviromentalists fear mongering. No different than the LIEberals.

Step #3 Canada will go along with Cap & Trade - just like the USA is proposing - in which the present tax system will seem great.

Global Warming is alive and well within the Conservative Party - I thought only the oppoition parties believed that lie. I am starting to feel betrayed like the time I voted LIEberal on their promise to get rid/change the Grits Support Tories tax (GST). So far not one Conservative has said Global Warming is a fake, built on fake data. They might loose votes, therefore appease the enviromentalists like or Minister of the Enviroment does. At least in Austrailia many politicians would rather resign than go along with proven false data.

Hope I am wrong.

It may have been necessary for them to have thrown away the raw temperature data. If the raw temperature data was available then they might be asked to reproduce Exactly The Same Results, in front of skeptical witnesses, as they had used in their peer-reviewed publications that were distributed to the world. This might have been impossible without using some infected modeling code, which an investigating scientist might discover.

See also

Anthropogenic Global Warming Virus Alert

http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s5i64103

Seems to me that data, once written, is on the hard drive of a computer forever. If I am correct, those so called 'scientists' would know that. Lord Moncton spelled it all out in his speeches, the 'scientists' are just stoolies with no credibility and no credibility was ever wanted or expected; they were just pawns in a plan to make the people of the world slaves to a poopy pants group of slugs who (WHO!) intended on cornering all the wealth of all the people from all the nations.

As I and others have stated here before: it all started with the anti tobacco bedwetters WHO had almost everyone who did not smoke (and many who did smoke!) on the 'anti' side. The thing was a non issue from the start because tobacco was and is legal. If you buy something to consume it is idiotic to suggest it will not be consumed!! All that the anti smoking movement (as in bowel)did was stink and prove to the next pack of shrieking bedwetters - AGW goofs - that people could be manipulated. The president was set. The old saying: first they came for the Jews, I was not a Jew so I turned away...when they came for me there was no one left to help ...

The bedwetters hate wood stoves..the better to freeze you with my dears..they hate gardens in cities (put everyone in a condo and create parks, no land available for sale...)..the better to starve you with my dears...you get the drift. What would happen to us if the electricity went out and the pumps ran out of gas? Don't blame the Prime Minister...he is saving our sorry dependant hide the best he can...blame ourselves for being so willing to lie down so that we could be used as doormats by the poopy pants evil power mongers. We now have our first Prime Minister, in Canada, in the 20th Century, who is on the same side as the people who elected him (Canadian citizens - only Canadians cast ballots for PMSH - the Ducippe (no Canadians voted for that little red worm), Jacko (the bedwetters of every ilk placed their vote with him) and Deyawn had the green stick so we know who voted for him!

To those of you casting stones; please think of the green stick in bed with the obermastra south of the border; if the coup troika had succeeded or if the results of the last election had been slightly more to the left. The very thought should give sane people a few bad nights!

This web of 'Cimatista' lies is unraveling faster than a Chineese made nylon sweater. The politicians are on to it, all of them. I think that ENORMOUS pressure should be loaded on the opposition, with threats not to vote for them, if they do not ask questions and call press conferences. I have already written to Larry Bagnel, our Liberano MP, and sent him links to Climategate, I have written Ignatieff and the Prime Minister and Jim Prentice. It is the JOB of the opposition to bring this up - so far they have gotten off -Scott free. It is all about who knew and when they knew..they must be kept up to date with a paper trail to prove that they knew all about this scam to impoverish all Canadians by stealing our wealth and our freedom to support a scientific fraud. They must be forced to ask questions once they are armed with the information or they will be punished at the next election. It does not matter that sane people already know that the troika are 'all in' floundering around the filth in the the AGW tank.

"Canada agrees to contribute to $10 Billion climate change fund" - G&M 29 Nov.

"A Conservative government will never raise taxes on income trusts" - Stephen Harper

"Kyoto is a socialist scam"- Stephen Harper

The rest of you are learning what income trust investors learned three years ago. Harper is an inveterate liar.

And who is your chosen 'one' for Canada, Jim?

Kate, but she's not running.

What I would like to hear from PMSH:

"We have been informed that the science behind climate change is sound. We have been informed that climate change is a global emergency. We have been informed of thousands of very negative effects that climate change is having on the people of Earth (heart attacks, starvation, drowning, suicides, etc.). We have been informed that it is the #1 issue facing mankind.

Accordingly, we are redirecting every cent of our contributions currently made to third world countries to fight global warming."

I'd love it.

Message to Canadian PM Harper.

Redeem yourself Mr. Harper.

Are you on the wrong side of history, PM Harper?

Say it is not so, PM Harper.

>>> Here is the message: AGW is fraud, a criminal fraud.

Science is scientism.

Scientism joins the other isms:

socialism > communism > environmentalism > fascism > National Socialism > nazism >>>>

Human manmade/Mannmade/CRU/AGW/Kyoto frauds listed incude, and there are others:

"The Y2K Glitch, The Arctic Ice Melt,
The Poor Polar Bears,
The Hockey Stick That Wasn't", etc.

The Canadians cited:

"This chart creates immediate doubt in anyone knowledgeable about the climate of the past millennium, which more resembles a roller coaster than a straight line. It developed -- in yet another impressive McIntyre takedown, this time with an assist from Ross McKitrick -- that Mann was utilizing an algorithm that would produce hockey sticks if you fed it telephone numbers. (Mann is the "Mike" mentioned in the CRU e-mails, and this is one of his "tricks".) Despite this disclosure, Mann has never withdrawn the chart, offered an explanation, or made a correction. The chart remains an accepted piece of evidence among warmists."
...-

"Scientists were once among the most trusted figures in Western public life, similar to bankers, priests, and doctors, but in a real sense standing above them all. Scientists were honored as truth-tellers, aware that their reputation for veracity and seriousness was their only real asset. And while exceptions existed (read the story of Blondlot and his N-rays, for one example), the public took them at their own valuation.

That is ended, one with the scholastic monasteries and the academy at Athens. Scientists today are well on their way to becoming an amalgam of the cheap politician and the three-card monte dealer. They are viewed by the less educated as a privileged class making alarming and impudent claims for their own benefit. The better informed find ourselves in the uncomfortable position of being unable to defend something we once admired.

The next set of questions in physics cannot be answered without equipment costing billions at the very least, and possibly much more. Will a disbelieving public pay for that? We are facing serious dilemmas concerning breakthroughs in biology, not only in stem-cell technology but also in neurology and synthetic biology, breakthroughs that threaten to distort the very nature of humanity itself. Should we leave the solutions up to people who want us to pick a card, any card?

The collaboration between science and democracy is one of the great achievements of human history. It is now threatened by the behavior of people at the very heart of that collaboration. If it is destroyed, something of unparalleled value will have vanished, something that will be nearly impossible to replace. If the Western world wishes to continue its magnificent upward journey, we will have to save science from itself. An errant and corrupt climatology is the place to start."
...-

"Global Warming Fraud and the Future of Science
American Thinker ^ | November 29, 2009 | J.R. Dunn

The East Anglia Climate Research Unit (CRU) revelations come as no real surprise to anyone who has closely followed the global-warming saga. The Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW) thesis, to give it its semi-official name, is no stranger to fraud. It would be no real exaggeration to state that it was fertilized with fraud, marinated in fraud, stewed in fraud, and at last served up to the world as prime grade-A fraud with nice side orders of fakery and disingenuousness. Damning as they may be, the CRU e-mails are merely the climactic element in an exhaustively long line.

A short tour of previous AGW highlights would include:

The Y2K Glitch." >>> (more)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2396202/posts

WOW. Jema54 and Maz2, great posts! I think that it is time to make our politicos "run" on a lot of issues.

Force them out into the open and force them to state their positions on the plethora of issues facing us, the voters today.

The current government and the opposition need to flesh out their platforms on where they want to take Canadians, even the BLOC. Because this time, I'm flying down to Montreal, my old stomping grounds and I WILL CAST A BALLOT in "their" election, one way or the other!

I want to see a raging, ranting, good old fashioned sweat breaking, scereaming out of POLICY from every bench-warmer in the HOC. Earn your friggin' salary and that golden pension ya bunch of clowns! Get to friggin' work, instead of pissing and moaning on PC crap!

Jema54 @ 4:45. I know, I know, but it is hard having faith when it is so crucial that we be not sold out.

Maybe it's time for some tea parties of our own. The kind with barrels on fire with something that spews out maximum carbon (to keep us warm as we hold our peaceful protest as to lack of common sense in our political representatives). Steven Harper, you think something like the Wild Rose can't happen to you? I, for one, suggest a western seperatist party - one that would refuse to sit in Ottawa and would continually demand a referendum to seperate from this country which is rapidly flushing itself down the drain.

"anti tobacco bedwetters WHO had almost everyone who"
Actually, I consider the tobacco issue to be the exact opposite of the climategate scandal. It was tobacco companies who convinced people there was something cool or enjoyable about this pathetic habit, otherwise nobody would cough their way to a fixed habit. The science has been proven and tested for decades and nobody doubts it except smokers frantically trying to whistle past the graveyard
Anyone continuing to smoke despite reputable science regarding the heath hazard is either truly addicted or simply kind of slow. Judging by your continued obsession with this topic, I'd say you're addicted.

If I understand the process at most stations, there is someone who collects the data each day. If I were that person, I would keep a copy of all the data for that site just in case anything were to happen. (really, just for my own satisfaction to have a complete set of data that I recorded.

Has anyone checked the individual station sites to see if they maintained a copy of the log or the actual original records?

Kate:

Brava! on your "mention in dispatches."

"...I'm indebted to Kate McMillan, the remarkable Canadian blogger who runs smalldeadanimals.com, for calling it to my attention..." Lorrie Goldstein in today's "Botch after Botch after Botch" in the Toronto Sun.

Keep leading the charge against the forces of ignorance and duplicity. Brava, again.

Is there, or should there be, something along the lines of a Central Clearing House or Center For Gathering and Disseminating of the Truth - about Climategate as well as many other topics deep sixed and B.S'd by the alleged progressives?
But "real" truth, not that "pravda" [Moscow nor Toronto] variety.

Totally Off topic now: I was born and raised in Montreal. Did time in Saskatoon , late fifties when "Varsity," Frosh Week Snake Dances, The Sheaf and Greystone were the only game in the province. We'd joke about the "new" campus needed in the Capital. We, of Ukie background, cynically and jokingly named it "U.S.S.R. - University of Southern Saskatchewan - Regina." The real thing seems so much better. Joined the Army at 9PD, Regina. Proud to have a Saskatchewan designation on my Regimental number.

Loved the Saskatoon Varsity teams, local Hilltops and the Quakers. The Roughies, Rams - with Fran Huck, and Oscar's [on the Boulevard and on Broadway - I think] in Regina.

This is a verbose and long 'round about way to say that today's game in Calgary may seem to have me struggling with conflicting loyalties. Lifelong Als fan, lifelong Green Machine fan, minus my first 17 years.

Today - in Calgary, I can guarantee that my team will hoist the cup.

t.e.& o.e.

"Canuckguy, links please; not G&M article, but where they got their data on arctic ice.

Haven't heard any of this, so let us know.

Posted by: Shamrock at November 28, 2009 7:26 PM "

He is referring to a survey done by a group that traversed the ice and did measurements of ice thickness, both from drill holes and ground radar.
Now, 1st year ice is generally nice and flat and smooth, easy walking and no problem to move equipment. Multi-year ice, on the other hand, tends to have lots of very rugged ice ridges, and is difficult to walk over, much less move equipment. So where to you suppose the team of "surveyors" spent the bulk of their time?

Forgot to add the link to the group that did the survey:

http://www.catlinarcticsurvey.com/

Jema54: "Seems to me that data, once written, is on the hard drive of a computer forever. If I am correct, those so called 'scientists' would know that."

You are wrong. In the mid-80's, a large data center would have less hard drive storage than the largest thumb drive has now. The drives held mainly programs and the operating system. Data was held on tapes - sometimes transferred to disks while a program ran. Large centers would have operators whose only job would be loading and unloading tapes.

In addition, none of the hard drives that were in use in the mid 80's are in use today - they were huge ... about the size of a washing machine.

There's NO WAY IN HELL that the data was 'dumped'
without being saved or archived in some discrete manner. They need the data as much as the FOI applicants do.
I'd guess that, at the very least, some of their NA co-conspirators have that data.
Let's play 'Find the Memory Stick'...

On a slightly different tack, Quirks and Quarks is looking for comments ;)
http://www.cbc.ca/technology/quirks-blog/2009/11/climate_science_still_sound.html#comments_open

Re: Comments on Harper going to Copenhagen, I found it very peculiar that the PM announced his travel plans one day after the e-mails were leaked. Perhaps Mr. Harper has something to tell the Global Warming Summit leaders, something along the lines of "Canada has had enough of the rantings of shysters, con-men, frauds, and hucksters. We see no reason to continue with the Kyoto fiasco and as one of the Planet's coldest countries we will be directing all of our previous Foreign Aid funding to implementing a domestic program of geo-thermal heating. In this way We will be reducing Our carbon emissions and creating a more sustainable economy rather than transferring hard earned wealth to economies that are unsustainable."

Canuckguy, regarding your reference to Prof. Barber and his article about Arctic ice:

I'm not sure what your point is, but maybe it's this: Barber does research in this field, he's said some alarming things, therefore we must believe him because he can't be wrong, after all the science is settled, since climate scientists are completely credible. Is that it?

Good grief, have you learned nothing in the last week?!

Remember: being a sceptic is a *good* thing. Once upon a time all scientists thought scepticism was the basis of investigation and discovery.

Dear Revenue Canada,
Enclosed herewith are my tax returns for 2009. Although the original receipts (data) were all destroyed in the move, in the interests of full disclosure, I have included my value added, corrected and homogenized receipts (data).
In anticipation of a hefty refund this year,
I remain,
xxxx

Deleting the raw data to "save space" has only two possible explanations:
(1) the level of incompetence of the CRU researchers is far greater than we ever imagined or
(2) the raw data, if analyzed by people who had no interest in whether it showed warming or cooling would find that the huge warming of the last few decades was totally faked.

I managed my labs computers in the early 1980's and it's hard for people now to comprehend how limited storage capacity was. The last 2 years that I worked there we finally had lots of disk storage and this consisted of 2 dishwasher sized drives of 32 Mb each. With a few removable disk packs we had total potential disk storage of 256 Mb. The primary form of archival storage was on 8 track tapes and IIRC I could squeeze about 20-30 Mb onto a tape by using large block sizes.

The most valuable data we had were the results of experiments and once this was written to a tape, that tape had the write enable ring removed and was never overwritten. I got flak from my boss about how many tapes we were using and how much space they were taking up. We ran a number of analyses on the experimental data which sometimes took a couple of days of CPU time and the results were written to tape. The highlights were printed out (we went through massive amounts of paper) and the tapes were then erased and used for the next analysis run. I couldn't imagine storing the analysis results and deleting the raw data as one can always rerun the analysis but there is no way one can recover the raw data once it is lost.

In the 1980's there was a serious problem of storing digital data but it was also easy to compress data to deal with it. What I've noticed is that all of the data files in the leaked zip file are text files. This is an incredibly inefficient means of storage taking one byte/character. What I used to do was to store data in binary form. For numbers

Forgot that can't use "less than" symbol in comments. Remainder of post is:
For numbers less than 65535 the text form of the number takes 5 bytes (assuming only single spaces or commas separating the values) but storing the number as a 16 bit integer takes 2 bytes with the binary data taking up only 40% of the space that the text data requires. None of my data was stored as text and I even packed data more tightly as we had a 10 bit A/D so I'd squish the numbers together so I could get 16 10 bit values in 10 words of data. These manipulations require more work but in the 1980's they were well worth it as a 32 Mb disk pack sold for about $300 then.

biff jupiter - If I am addicted, I am addicted to a legal substance! People are 'addicted' to many legal substances: sugar, pharmaceutical drugs, T.V., jogging, coffee, alcohol, cars etc. etc.

I am not responsible for the bankruptcy of many people in the hospitality industries; the bedwetting anti tobaccos are! I have actually saved a lot of money by not going out.

It is not your business to dictate my lifestyle to me. People of your ilk who have never had a stressful moment in their soft lives have chased veterans of our wars outside at their old folks homes and their legions. Tobacco is one of their only comforts against memories that people like you and I can only imagine. Pretty selfish and ungrateful, IMO. If they had been made POWs for life they would have had the RIGHT to smoke! (one vet told me that - it is in the Geneva Convention - bet you didn't know that).

Ken (Kulak)- I trust PMSH, I know that he won't sell us out - he is a good man. PMSH inherited all this PC filth from the red tories and the liberanos and he knows that an election would produce a troika coup gov't that would destroy our country. He is walking on eggshells.

PMSH should not be mentioned in a comparative sentence with special ed, PMSH has to work with that sellout and all the other goofy premiers (like red Fentie, the liar, in the Yukon. The Feds are paying for a 'joint' hydro project in the Yukon and Fentie has sold his share of cost to ATCO (now Direct Energy) in Alta - most Yukoners don't even know the project exists!! The population is in full denial and the msm does not report anything about this project because the msm backs the former dipper (Fentie crossed the floor to run for the top job) masquerading as a Conservative. The entire budget in this territory is sent to the territory by the Feds (southern taxpayers), in spite of the fact that the Yukon is blessed with mineral riches.

John Crouton's wife apparently wanted a park and Crouton 'gave' her the Yukon. 95% of the population of 30,000 lives in Whitehorse and all earn a living, directly or indirectly, from massive Fed government transfers..sort of like another bigger province in the east. The Yukon, like Que. wants to build a big climate station to study (and employ!) lots more climatologists. I say all of this, not because I hate this beautiful territory but because I hate the idea of taking from the willing to give to the unwilling. The Yukon, until the Dippers were elected in the mid eighties and Eric Nielson quit Fed politics (back stabbed by red tories) was the most exciting, productive. optimistic place to live in Canada.

"The polar bears ate my homework".

-- Phil Jones

The claim that the original data was disposed of to save space is very hard to believe. One 30 year old 7-track 12" reel of magnetic tape would hold ALL the data. In my field of particle physics we archive data sets many many orders of magnitude greater than the temperature record. It would never occur to us to dispose of them. To be fair, it would be hard for us to give outsiders access, as the interpretation would need knowledge of how the data was acquired.

But anyway, I think the "to save space" claim can not be true.

Loki - In the mid 80's I suspect the bulk of the raw data was being reported in text format (think telex). Then entered into a Cyber computer, 60 bit word (10 x 6 bit bytes ... no lowercase) for preprocessing. IIRC, the smallest unit was half a word - 30 bits ... 5 bytes. Pre-processing got rid of wonky data before it was sent to a supercomputer.

R. Orr - The Met orgnizations were concerned mainly with their product - the daily weather forecast ... todays forecast is useless tomorrow. Of course, they also wanted to improve the weather model. Because the data had a shelf life of a couple of days, I doubt much care was given to it ... unless, maybe, if their model failed spectactularly.

For those that can't understand why they didn't store stuff on hard drives in 1985:

1985 - 1 DD-49 1.2 GB drives, 9.8 MB/s transfer rate - $125,000 = $104,166 per GB
2009 - 1 Barracuda SATA 3Gb/s 1-TB Hard Drive, 120 MB/s transfer rate - $98 = .10 cents per GB

http://www.craywiki.co.uk/index.php?title=Cray_XMP (DD-49 pricing)

Make that - spectacularly

Well this debate with you lot about the reality of AGW is not going to be settled at this point in time.

Time will prove AGW is real. I have a question, when the Artic becomes a shortcut for cargo ships, then will you deniers be prepared to eat your words? I'm a patient fellow, I can wait 5 years.

Polar bear stew! MMmmm, MMmmm, good!

Canuckguy; The issue is NOT whether the Earth's climate is changing. That's a given; it always has.
The issue...the ONLY issue, is the basis of making the claim that it's warming, caused by Human activity! The proponents have been exposed as inept charlatans. On their failing-grade-science the World is poised to destroy Western economies.
Did that help clear up your misunderstanding?

The CRU is the world’s leading centre for reconstructing past climate and temperatures.

Does that depend on Clinton's meaning of what is, is?

Fred at November 28, 2009 7:38 PM

You forgot the Chewbacca defense.

Canuckguy, Do you have to use "Canuck" in your name? It is embarrasing for us Canadians. Also, that prediction of catasrophe "in five years" has been made numerous times before and it is still five years away. Does time stand still in your universe?

This post is ready to drop of the page but here are my parting shots.
DaninVan - First you lot deny climate warming. Now that it looks it too obvious to ignore, you hang your hat on denying it is the result of human activity. That shift buys you sometime before you look foolish again.

"Canuckguy, Do you have to use "Canuck" in your name? - Native
Yes, I am too lazy to go through the trouble of changing at this late state. Besides, it annoys the Mercans when I show up on their blogs.

The opposition Leader was just rolled in Australia for his support for the government's Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS).

The negotiations with the government caused a grassroots revolt of Liberal Party supporters who flooded the MPs and senators with protests at their actions.

The new leader, Tony Abbott, has vowed to oppose the ETS.

The effect of the release of the CRU emails is now being felt. It's only going to get hotter for the believers as the significance of the raw data loss sinks in.