The NYC chapter of the ACLU (aka CAIR, New York) must be salivating in anticipation.

When I tuned in to hear Holder say he'd be seeking the death penalty I thought they'd arrested Bush and Cheney.

I wasn't that far off. It's pretty obvious that part of the plan is put them on trial one way or the other.

If found not guilty do they get to walk?

The stupidest idea I've heard all year.

WASF...

Major Nidal is also an 'alleged' shooter.

I thought he confessed?

Like Beck said today "where are they going to find a jury of his peers?"

The latest from the WH is that they are seeking amnesty for 10 million illegals.
P.E.T. must be green with envy Obama has him beat hands down.

Maybe if his fair trial could be followed by a 1st class public hanging on the site of the WTC complex...

Like Beck said today "where are they going to find a jury of his peers?" Posted by: gobi desert

Pakistan.

Try these men and put them in a pit somewhere. If this is allowed to become a media circus, God help us when they get their own talk shows.

Why not? Now they are going to have to throw out all kinds of evidence. Can't wait for the day when his lawyers are high fiving and he walks out of the courtroom a free man. He can probably move to have the charges dismissed on the grounds that his right to a speedy trial were violated.

Obama And The General. This could be a TV series, you know ... another one of those mindless Negro sit-coms.

Love his eye shadow in the picture on the right.

I dunno.

I always thought that photo they took of Khalid when they nabbed him looked just like the late John Belushi after an all-night bender:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/Khalid_Shaikh_Mohammed_after_capture.jpg

Toga! Toga!

Did Belushi really die at the Chateau Marmont?

I think we should be told.

I don't comment much here as 99% of the time what I want to say has already been expressed, but I can't believe some of the comments on the link provided re: The NY Times article. This one blew me away.... "It will be interesting to see how the jury handles evidence obtained by torture. If I was a member of it, I would vote not guilty"

Absolutely stomach turning. There are plenty more like it. People on the left must truly have a mental disorder, there can be no other explanation.

I new I'd seen him before too, but I thought he was Ron Jeremy.

I started reading those too, Rodney. Absolutely sickening.

A jury of his peers?

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_111309/content/01125111.guest.html

I have seen that face before as well...

And if you don't believe it, then you better kill me now, because I'll put a jihad on you too.

I like you. You have balls.

I like balls.

...

"I've got five terrorists going southeast on Baka laka daka (Wall) Street."

That is one hairy MOFO.

Can there be any doubt that an OJ-like acquittal is in the cards?

Yeah Rodney, I only got to the third comment before I closed the window to prevent hypertension and acid reflux.

The BDS leftoids are still out there and are more than willing to hand over our freedom to feed their habit.

Speaking of the ACLU ....

Here's some observations from

Stop The ACLU !

Now the victims of 9/11 get to pay for the housing, security and show trial of those who sought the murder of those and their families.

Really effin cool those Democretins... eh?

By putting it in NY they are inviting years of appeals. Prejudice? Find any non truther that wouldn't want these slime to swim the Atlantic in December. Those Americans that have not lost the will to live remember the people that brought this farce to you in the name of Justice.

I just cannot understand how people can hate people from their own country and sympathize with those responsible for 9/11. What is so hard to understand about islamist jihad and the fact that they want to see us all dead? I felt physically ill reading some of the comments at they NY Times. I've NEVER felt that way before in my life and I'm 43. I don't understand how people can believe things like that, as hard as I try.

You can't reason with people like the jihadis. The cold hard truth is as much as you try to talk to them they will only understand the fist. That is the only way they will respect you. To think otherwise is delusional. They should have been executed long ago, in a way that would cause them the greatest shame in the eyes of their peers so as to demoralize them, not make them martyrs and give them a platform to spout their crap like this dog and pony show. They're playing for keeps, why aren't we?

One more page in the Obamunist play book. The boy president was not able to put Bush on trial so now Holder & the administration will put the FBI & CIA on trial. During a war.

The progessive media will love this! Especially the dead tree media as this will be like a bail-out with no end to the column inches of America bashing churned out by pin head CSJ graduates.

Just think of the possibilities for Chris Matthews - CAIR "Special Reports" during the next 10 years of trials, appeals, trails, etc.

I have to agree,this will end up being another "OJ" case, and Khalid will probably walk.

Some of the comments at that link are unbelievable!

Look at it this way; now the MSM has something other than the economy to kvetch about.

Who provides security... NYC police ?

NEVER HAPPEN!

I want to see the birth certificate, I prefer Biden because he is more entertaining than dangerous. bambam is dangerous and Holder has let ideology rule over common sense. NY doesn't need to be a target and as Guiliani (sp?) has said we did not try the Pearl Harbour guys in Hawaii. It was an act of war and not a civillian crime.

Follow the "alleged" link in Kate's post, and then scroll down to the link to the "Baseball Crank". This guy's right on the money - by holding the trial right in the middle of downtown Manhattan, the required security is just going to further choke and snarl traffic in the very heart of the city's civic core. An excerpt:

It's impossible, really, to caricature this White House; even Josiah Bartlett didn't run through this many liberal stereotypes in his first season. Obama needs new writers. Blow up the World Trade Center and kill 3,000 Americans? Jail! Don't buy health insurance? Jail! Win the Nobel Prize for doing jack squat.

Very funny, but absolutely accurate.

Have any of you read the article behind the "Is there nothing that Obama can't do?" link? This could be more than just a circus. It could turn into downright betrayal of their country.

I haven't read any of the comments from the NYT, but if they are as bad as folks here suggest, then it must be like commenters at CBC's website or at the Red Star. We must remember that people who comment at those places are primarily restricted to those people to consume the garbage the host media organ grinds out for their consumption. In other words, they are lunatics on the fringe.

I was one of the earliest and long-time commenters at the blog Iraq the Model. Most of the commenters there were Americans and I was amazed at how many confessed to being life-long Democrats right up until 9/10, but switched allegiances shortly after and have never gone back. I suspect this circus could very well result in a similar movement. It's going to be a loooooonnnnnng three years, but stunts like this will ensure the Dems are soundly defeated. (I hope.)

"Who provides security... NYC police ?
NEVER HAPPEN!"

No, but one can always dream...

It's outrageous.

1)Think about it. This act defines them as criminals within the rights of US Law. But - They are neither US citizens nor criminals. They are terrorists and non-citizens; i.e., an illegal militarist and should be tried in military court.

2) Think about it. How much money, US taxpayer money, is it going to cost for US citizens to pay for the lawyers for these five? And security? Millions and millions. Of US taxpayer money being spent on five terrorists whose agenda is to harm the US. Hey..with this decision, they ARE harming the US and its taxpayers!

3) Think about it. Holder informed the press that he was certain that prosecution, seeking the death penalty, 'would be successful'. Hey- that's already grounds for a mistrial judgment!

4) So what's it really all about? It's not about terrorism. Remember, Obama doesn't recognize terrorism; he's changed the 'war on terror' to 'overseas contingency operations' (what the heck does that mean?)..and the term 'terrorist' is now forbidden; they are called 'insurgents'.

It's an election year. The real agenda is Bash Bush. It's really a trial of Bush, Cheney and the whole Bush administration. That's what it's really all about.
And, there'll be LOTS of talk about incompetence, torture, ill-treatment of the Koran..oh..and lots of talk about how the whole 9/11 was justified and due to the perfidy of the Before-Obama era.

5) I predict - that this will blow up against Obama. Yes, there'll be the usual Hate America crowd, but I think that the Love America crowd, made up of people who are Democrats, Republiclans and Independents..is increasing. And they are fed up with Bash America, Apologize For America, and yes, are starting to see the good points of Bush.

Think about it - How Bush went, privately, without the photo-op, to Fr. Hood to meet with all the wounded. Did Obama? Heck no, He couldn't even announce the crisis properly. Recall how he first talked about a 'shout-out' (what is he, a campus cheerleader?) for some native American, and other..and finally, got to announce the Ft. Hood massacre..

Remember how he showed up for a Return at an airforce base of a soldier killed in Afghanistan? Obama? For a photo-op? Why? Because he was refusing to decide on the AFghan policy and he was trying to silence critics..so, he went for the photo-op.
Bush went often, often, to these ramp ceremonies. But never once allowed a picture to be taken. Obama asked for one.

I predict, that this will blow up against Obama.

This is a brilliant move for Obama. He can't keep them in Gitmo because he promised he would shut it down. He can't order the detainees released. He can't deport them because their home countries don't want them. So he orders a civil trial where the judge throws the case out because they weren't Mirandized. The 5th Amendment kicks in - double jeopardy - and they walk out, free men. His hands are clean - how can you blame the Constitution? - and the mess goes away.

Related - any guesses on how much poor wee Omar Khadr is going to get for his troubles? I think it'll be at least 20 million.

He looks like most cab drivers?

I just don't think the Democrat strategists have really thought this one through.

If Khalid walks (unlikely) the popularity of the Obama administration will inevitably tank.

Even if, as seems more likely, he ends up with a significantly reduced sentence, the popularity of the Obama administration will still suffer.

It's LOSE-LOSE all the way.

Circus is right. While the media bombards us with daily overdoses of OJ East Coast, Reid and Pellosi will be busy shredding the last remnants of the constitution.

It's a political agenda for Obama; it's part of his next election campaign.

Think about it.

1) The trial will take several years. It's all about Bash Bush, it's laying a huge guilt trip on America, for the defense will do all they can to set the terrorists up as hapless victims of American imperialism...it will be about waterboarding; it will be about..whatever..

Remember, that Obama operates by emotional manipulation. He won, using the vapid empty rhetoric of Hope and Change (hope for what? change from what?..it's up to the listener)..and on an anti-Bush campaign. AND, on the guilt trip strategy of his 'race'. He used that as a vital tactic in his election campaign. Pure emotion.

2) This next election campaign, disguised as a court session is equally emotional manipulation.

It will campaign on guilt. But this time, it's not about race. It's about Being American. So, he'll put the Pre-Obama era on trial, and make Americans feel guilty about that era.

3) And this anti-Bush and anti-American campaign will be paid for by Americans! Not out of the Democratic Party coffers!

4) And it will function as a huge propaganda campaign to recruit and inflame jihadism around the world. Huge propaganda....

5)Notice that this decision came right after Ft. Hood. Ft Hood was a terrorist attack. On Obama's watch. This trial is being set up to define any and ALL terrorist attacks, even future ones, as Due To Bush and to Pre-Obama Americans.
Watch them do this; watch for the rhetoric.

6) I'm still going to predict that this will incite more, a backlash against Obama. You can only manipulate people so much....

Too clever by half, Kathyrn.

I'm with ET. THEY WILL RUE THE DAY. This is going to become a long-running advertisement against this despicable regime. This is going to refresh liberal memories. Recall, liberals were just as angry as we were on 9/11.

I keep wondering if I sometimes engage in unjustified hyperbole when I refer to this administration as Marxist/Maoist America-haters.
But I think not. If anything, HYPObole.

This is way, way beyond hard-ball Chicago gangster partisan politics. This is a Fifth Column Whitehouse. This is collaborating with the enemy.

me no dhimmi - YES! I agree with you! We finally did it! We agree.

It is indeed true; this administration is in active collaboration with the enemy.

Obama is using this as an election strategy. He's not intending to run his next election campaign on what HE has done, for his record is increasingly disastrous. No, he's running against Bush. And against guilt. But this time, it's not racial guilt. It will be 'religious guilt' or Middle East guilt.

What are the proponents of this fiasco saying to try to justify it? They are saying, in their smug sanctimonious stupidity, that this will 'show the world' the real glorious nature of American justice. Rubbish.

The world isn't interested in such a showcase. What is will show the Islamic world, and that's its agenda, is the Evil Bush Era, the Evil CIA, and it will attempt to twist the American voter into a pretzel of guilt. How to get out of this guilt? Vote For Obama in 2010 and 2012.

Think about it. Obama's Gang tried to trip up the CIA. Remember Pelosi claiming that the CIA lied to her? Hmmm?

And, they've tried to have the 'perpetrators' of 'torture' tried in US courts. Remember that?

These agendas both went nowhere.

Now, they are achieving this goal: Denigrate the CIA; Bash Bush....by this trial.

I'll still predict - it will backlash against Obama. There's a limit to Boots Walking All Over the American People..and when it's the Presidential Boots..he'd better be careful.

If the point was to have a real criminal trial he would walk even with the most inadequate of defence attorneys. So what is the point really, other than to fan the flames of Obama's raging ego and publicize security secrets?

maybe OwebamaRahm is champaigning to be the next secretary general of the UN

Hang onta yer hat granny...Hell just came to breakfast....

Ordinarilly I would equate this to firing on Fort Sumter...........I may be right................

oh look.

it's rosie o'donnell.

p.s. this has far less to do with The B.O. and vastly more to do with the fact that in 2004 there were more lawyers in the US of A per capita than anywhere else in the world.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fsb/fsb_archive/2004/04/01/366651/index.htm

oh lookie. 666 in the link. whatever does that mean . . . ?

Here's a comment worth reading at the National Review The Corner, by Andy McCarthy:

"So: We are now going to have a trial that never had to happen for defendants who have no defense. And when defendants have no defense for their own actions, there is only one thing for their lawyers to do: put the government on trial in hopes of getting the jury (and the media) spun up over government errors, abuses and incompetence. That is what is going to happen in the trial of KSM et al. It will be a soapbox for al-Qaeda's case against America. Since that will be their "defense," the defendants will demand every bit of information they can get about interrogations, renditions, secret prisons, undercover operations targeting Muslims and mosques, etc., and — depending on what judge catches the case — they are likely to be given a lot of it. The administration will be able to claim that the judge, not the administration, is responsible for the exposure of our defense secrets. And the circus will be played out for all to see — in the middle of the war. It will provide endless fodder for the transnational Left to press its case that actions taken in America's defense are violations of international law that must be addressed by foreign courts. And the intelligence bounty will make our enemies more efficient at killing us."

And that's the agenda of Hodder/Obama. To Bash Bush and the previous administration, and to create GUILT in the emotions of Americans...so that they will vote for Not-Bush, i.e., Obama, in the next elections.

It's not about justice. After all, they ARE guilty, and therefore, what's the point of a trial like this? A military tribunal would have been correct.

Those leftists who bleat about 'it will showcase the American justice system all over the world' are talking through their tinfoil hats. There is no need for the American justice system to be showcased in this instance, because there is nothing to prove or disprove. Nothing.

But it will incite jihadists all over the world because the trials will set these men up as Glorious Martyrs.
It will assist terrorists in their plans.

It will cost the American taxpayer billions - and I maintain that it is being used as an electioneering strategy by the Democratic Party, which means that the American taxpayer is subsidizing the Democratic Party's election campaign.

It will endanger the jurists and govt lawyers who will be targets of jihadist attacks.

This visage almost, for the first time in my life, gives me to accept Darwin's theory on the Descent of Man; ... in reverse!

Absolutely bang-on, ET. Every word, from start to finish. Can't even tell you.

Thank you.

It's ... a ... reverse show trial.

Another thing brought up on the radio today, they probably were never read their miranda rights. Case dismissed.

One of the NYT commenters said "Try them in Texas". Initially I thought it was a swipe at dubya...butchyaknowwhat? It actually makes way more sense to try them in Tx than NYC.

Texas is a big state where security concerns would be minimized in the sparsely populated areas. The Texas justice system works as efficient as any in the Union - the defendant's presumed right to a speedy trial has a better chance in Tx than NYC. Also, nobody administers the death penalty quite like Texans do.

So if Guantanamo is a stagnant rotting mess of Islamic terrorist tripe...the great state of Tx and it's no nonsense justice system might be the right tonic to correct the malaise.

Curious, I guess I need new glasses, as I thought the guy on the left was WK after a rough policy session at the Lib HQ.

Why is anyone surprised that obama is using alinsky's playbook? Everything that he has every done said that he would.

I was going to predict a suicide bomber on the steps of the court house.

Upon further thought, the terrorists aren't that stupid.

Obambi will do more damage to the USA and the free world than any physical explosive could ever do.

Unfortunately the gullible Americans (leftards, demoncrates and virtually everyone under 30) will get what they deserve but drag the rest of us with them.

I'll be stocking up on lead and keeping my powder dry.

Dave.

Isn't that guy on the left a superannuated porn star?

What Lawyer in his right mind would take on this case? "Give me infamy or give me death?"
Talk about a lose-lose situation.
The enemy looks at us and sees not 'a fair trial' but abject weakness.

"Give me infamy or give me death?"...oops, make that an exclamation mark not a question.

ET you are absolutely correct. However, I would add that in addition to putting the USA and the FBI and CIA on trial during a war in the very city where this horrific terrorist attack took place and paid for by the taxes of its citizens is nothing short of an intentional mockery and insult by this administration. In my opinion an even darker strategy and outcome is possible: the consitution itself will be used to legally introduce Sharia law (a further mockery and insult). This adminstrations treasonist agenda and utter contmept for its citizens under this president is continually being severely underestimated. One only sees 10% of an iceberg(the visible amount ) - the other 90% remains unseen. 90% of this evil agenda is yet to be seen, yet it only takes the visible 10% to sink the ship (think Titanic).

It is such a blatantly evil decision that it leaves me stunned. It is an anti-American decision. It has nothing to do with justice; nothing. It is a purely political decision.

1) Those on the left are defending it as 'it will showcase the value of the American Justice system. Rubbish.
The American justice system is not now and has never been at question. There is no need to defend it.
AND - that's their only defense! A non-issue!

2) So, what's it really about? It is one thing only. It's a political strategy with ONE agenda. One agenda.

This has two parts: part one is to Bash Bush; this will satisfy the blood lust of the leftist crowds who are feeling let down by Obama's weakness in their Pet Values of gay marriage, attacking the CIA.
Its other part is to make the American people feel guilty by showcasing America as The Cause of Islamic jihadism.
Result? Vote for post-Bush Obama.

3) It's a political strategy to DIVERT attention from the disasters of Obama's presidential reign: his deficit, his pork-stimulus, his cap-and-trade, his health care..all of which are bankrupting America and doing nothing positive.

It's a political strategy to counter the growing voices of the Tea Parties (whom Obama himself denigrates by calling them TeaBaggers)..The Tea Parties are growing, are continuing, and that massive Tea Party in Washington, which the Obama Gang are pretending didn't happen...has deeply worried them.
This is their response to the Tea Parties, to FOX, to the American people who Dare To Criticize the Great Master, Obama.

4) What does he do with their criticism of Him?

He puts the American people on trial. That's what he does.

They'll manipulate the MSM so that this is ALL that will be talked about, the evil Pre-Obama regime...and the disasters of the Obama regime will barely get any air time.

5) Then, there'll be the threats against America as this trial incites jihadists around the world. These will be used as evidence of the Evils of the Bush era, and Obama will give speeches: 'We HAve Changed; This is Post-Bush; there is No Need to Attack Us. Oh..and Vote For Obama.

That's what it's all about. Disgraceful, despicable. And frankly, Evil.

[quote]No, but one can always dream...[/quote]

If Obama & Holder think any AMERICAN will allow those terrorists to PISS on the graves of those lost on 09/11...be my guest. One terrorist boot on the ground will incite an ugly response...Do you think NYC police will protect the worthless clowns that pretend to seek a type of unjust vengeance, but actually intend to violate every American value in the process. This is part of the anti-American agenda by Obama

Obama is a Muslim by blood line....is Holder?

This may sound trivial but the result of this civil trial gambit is not written in stone.

This may have many goals----eliminating by default may legal checks and balances that are in place to protect the civil rights of civilians versus the justice system.

For starters---the public Holder assertion that he has confidence that KSM will be convicted is by itself grounds for an appeal or set aside.(set aside = vacating a conviction).

These vermin were not Mirandized and then there are the allegations of torture which taints evidence.

Because of the above and the reality that acquittal is impossible in principle----this sets a evil precedent for jurisprudence.

That may be the agenda---to allow the Marxist masters of the US government to persecute critics and opposition with impunity.

Just heard Giuliani with Cavuto:

"This is the application of a political IDEOLOGY ... over what I would call common sense" [close approximation].

"From the top down".

Obviously!

sasquatch - exactly, Hodder's assertion that they WILL be convicted is a violation of due process in a criminal trial and could be used to justify 'corruption' of that due process.

But think about what is going on..By the way, during his tenure as Senator, Obama pressed for a military trial! (See Breibart).

What is going on is a blatant attack on the American people, on any and all who have dared to criticize Obama. This is His answer to the Tea Parties, to FOX news, to the Town Halls. He's putting them, and their supposed Bush-Allegiance, on trial. THEY are the evil ones. Not the terrorists. THEY will be shown as the 'root cause' of terrorism.

And, think about it...the explosion of jihadist emotions this will incite among radical Islamists; this trial will act as a recruiting bonanza for jihadists.
Why? Because the cause of jihadism will be shouted from New York..the cause is Bush-Americans! Not Islamic fascism! No, the cause is America!

Then, he's bankrupting Americans even further, because the millions spent, by Americans, on funding the defense lawyers for these five, and the millions spent on security..incredible.
What about the jurists who will receive death threats and even attacks?

And..notice, any and all future terror attacks will be blamed, not on Obama..including the current Ft. Hood one, but on Bush. So, Obama is preparing the way to avoid his complicity in future terrorist attacks.

AND, the trial will divert all attention from Obama's disastrous policies at home and abroad, and focus on Bush. And create an American Guilt Trip, which will only be dealt with By Voting For Obama.

The blatant Evil of this agenda..is incredible.

So far, the only defense I've seen of this decision is that 'it will showcase the purity of American justice to the world'. But this reason is empty. American justice has never been questioned; there is no need to examine or display it. American justice is not on trial and never was.

But Obama is...and he's setting this up to instead, divert criticism of him..to Bush, and anyone who supported Bush and who criticizes Obama.

Pure evil.

ET, Hasn't Obama crossed over into a psychopath? Or are we just now seeing it?
He is demonstrating no empathy for the survivors and their families in his quest to destroy Bush and Cheney. He is cold and chilling, warm smile regardless.
I pray, as you predict, that this will be a bridge too far.

Sasquatch:

the public Holder assertion that he has confidence that KSM will be convicted is by itself grounds for an appeal or set aside

Geez, have you never watched a single episode of Law and Order? There's nothing wrong with a DA proclaiming his faith that the guilty will be convicted, just as there is nothing wrong with the defense attorney holding press conferences to claim his client's innocence.

gellen - is Obama a pyschopath? I'm not sure if I'd go that far but he is sociopathic, and is, in my view, a malignant or pathological narcissist.

As such, he has no empathy for anyone. His only agenda within is relations with other people is to control them. His control is to ensure their constant adulation of him, their inability to criticize him, their utter bonding to His Will.

He has previously managed to isolate himself from criticism. He's done this by playing on his 'race'.

And, by his manipulative skills. Narcissists and sociopaths are masters of rhetorical manipulation. Obama's winks, grins, calls for 'shout outs', calls of 'I love you', and his empty rhetoric of glory...that's all part of it.

Previously, Obama has managed to evade responsibility and ensure that others are in his control by using race and charm to 'do nothing'. He really hasn't done a thing concrete in his career. As 'president' of the Harvard Law Review he didn't do the required work of editor but left it to others.

He's written no analytic arcticles on law in any journal himself. His two 'books' are autobiographies and their authorship is questioned; one of those books was supposed to be an anlytic study of race; he couldn't do the research and analysis and instead it was about Him.

His time as community organizer was as a cheerleader. His time in Senate was the same, empty and merely voting 'present' or far left.

Now, he's President and for the first time, he's open to criticism. And he can't handle it. It enrages..and I mean that word..it enrages him. It makes him feel fragile, losing His Control Over You. That's enough to turn a sociopath into dangerous rage and attacks.

He's attacked FOX new, he's had his minions disparage the Town Halls, the Tea Parties..Can you imagine - he won't permit Americans to criticize him! If they do - he rejects them!

And now, this current agenda is a blatant open attack on Americans who criticize Obama and who might be Independents or Republicans..who favour Bush. It's an attack against them.

He's not only inciting an explosion of jihadism around the world against America, but, he's further dividing the country. Remember is talk about a non-divisive America? Obama has done more to incite racist divisions in America than any recent president; he's divided the political arena; and now, he's dividing Americans into those who support Obama vs those who support Bush..and he's defining those who support Bush as The Cause of Terrorism.

The agenda is so monstrous, so evil...it's astonishing.

I don't think there is really a difference between sociopath and psychopath. I believe the latter word became associated with violent action (PSYCHO!) and therefore the former was invented to denote a person without a conscience/compassion/empathy but who is non-violent.
Both words clearly indicate a person without guilt, conscience, empathy, remorse.

I don't think "sociopath" is a "milder form" as much as another nicer word for the same syndrome. It's kinda like thinking socialism is a milder form of communism, which it really isn't. Perhaps we use communism to denote a political system with gulags and mass murder, whereas socialism is thought to be less overtly (physically) violent.

Robin of Berkeley (American Thinker) did a good piece on why Obama may not be ABLE to feel empathy.

ET: I'm 100% with your assessment of the sheer unmitigated EVIL of this. But you have to admit it's also pretty strong evidence backing my contention that Obama is a hard-left ideologue. A true BELIEVER.

me no dhimmi - no..sigh..Obama's current Trial Of America in New York, isn't, to my mind, evidence of his being a communist ideologue.

It's evidence of his being a pathological, demented, narcissist, who cannot allow anyone to function outside of his control. Reject Obama and he's showing what will result. Nothing to do with ideology.

As for the difference between a sociopath and psychopath, I agree with you. The differences can depend on the author/researcher. One person will indeed say that the former is non-violent while the latter is violent. Another will say that the former is less organized while the latter is very organized. Another will say that the psychopath is 'cooler' or more controlled in his anger while the sociopath can 'flip' in his rage at loss fo control over others.

Whatever - I think it's clear that Obama is pathological and an incredible danger to the American people..and the world.

ET: re: your earlier post about our agreement, be clear I agree with nearly everything you say here (ex. Israel, anyway).
I only disagree a little around the edges. And when I try to take you on, it's only 'cos you're BIG GAME. :)

I'm sure we agree that:
Obama, like most on the hard left, believes that most of the world's problems are due to American adventurism; that he certainly doesn't subscribe to the belief in American exceptionalism; that he believes in a "community of nations" which would be all harmony absent American hegemony; that he doesn't understand that with all its faults, from a statistical point of view, the post WW2 US hegemony resulted in a period of unprecedented peace and harmony; that the US was a "good bully" relatively speaking; that he fails to understand that most US failures internationally were well-intended ones; that he believes the US shouldn't be restrained by the constitution 'cos it only spoke about "negative rights"; that he believes in the State as the solution to all social problems; that he NEVER talks about the high morality and bountiful fruits of free market capitalism (notice, zero suggestions on removing the many constraints on the free market in health care); that he sees the market as a unlevel zero-sum playing field of exploiters and exploited; that he believes in wealth re-distrubution domestically and globally; that he believes in subordinating US sovereignty to global governance.

Clearly that partial list adds up to a unmistakable statist, anti-American ideology. The marxist label is, in the end, unimportant.

Mark Levin, in his bes-seller, never mentions socialism, communism, marxist, only STATISM. That's wise, I think.

I like your Trial of America. Further up I made a very short post: it's a REVERSE show trial.

And EVIL is the only word for this.

me no dhimmi - is Obama a statist? Yes, to that I'll agree. But before you jump up and down in glee, I'm qualifying my opinion.

He's a statist, NOT because he believes in the constructive power of the State to 'do what's best' for a nation. He's a statist because it empowers HIM, as president, and disempowers the People. That is, his view of 'what to do' is based on HIS psychological aberration of malignant narcissism. Not on any intellectual analysis of governance.

Intellectually, I consider him a blank. His mind is totally empty. He can't analyze a cause and effect of anything. That's why he was unable to write that book on racism and instead switched it to all about Obama. That's why he's never written any analytic articles. Nothing. His only focus is on How Do I Control YOU. That's it.

And he's in politics because it's the only profession apart from a used car salesman where you can get by with charm, winks and slick talk. He's in the Democratic Party because its ideology is all about statism and reducing the power of the ordinary people to zero.

So...there it is. We do see a lot of things in common..It's just that I think that Obama is more intellectually barren than you do. His mind is like the roots of a dead plant.

Didn't Nostradamus predict the end of the world to occur in 2012, during Obama's reign?

Got to reread those quatrains. Events seem to be unwinding as predicted.

If someone could tie The Red Prince and Obama together, the whole world would get a tingle up their spines.

ET: Yeah, I think we BOTH (along with a lot of regulars here) got Obama right from the get-go, from even before he got the nomination. And it must be conceded that your analysis has been more expansive and eloquent than most, including my own!

I completely agree that he's a blank, intellectually barren. It's just that I don't see that as "an alibi". Put another way, I don't think it's at all true that holders of strong ideological beliefs necessarily got there through rigorous intellectual analysis. In the case of the hard left, it seems to me that's its derived emotionally, not intellectually, through envy, jealously, resentment, hatred. I believe Obama is a great hater!

Our minor differences are probably mostly semantic.

All these defendants need is one Muslim on each jury of their peers and regardless of any evidence the result will be hung juries at best.

Convictions have to be unanimous and no Muslim would risk being ostracized, or worse, by their community.

me no dhimmi - ahh, now there I again agree with you. I think that Obama is a 'great hater'. He has a lot of hate and anger in him.

After all, sitting through 20 years of anti-American, anti-white rants of Wright...only someone with hate in him could do that. And he hasn't found a new church, so that means that he wasn't going there for the Christian religion but for the hostile rants.

And I'd bet he moved into that psychological state long ago, faced with parents who abandoned him, tossed him around..and were socialists themselves.

So, yes, I agree, that many of the left radicals do follow The Word of Socialism, not out of intellectual commitment, but out of their own emotional needs. Obama is in that set.

Dare I say this:

Coming from a bit of a dysfunctional family myself (father manic-depressive alcoholic, albeit of the functional variety) I felt really bad for the boy Obama after reading Robin of Berkeley's American Thinker piece of a day or two ago.

That was a tragic upbringing. Affirmative Action put him on a path he was clearly not suited for. By totally neglecting to do the required due diligence, MSM put him in the Oval Office. In some ways, I'm angrier with MSM than with Obama.

You have to avoid sentimentality though considering the extremely dangerous situation the country is in with this president.

Oz makes a good point about hung juries. Considering Army Chief of Staff's insane remark to the effect that a loss of "diversity" would be even more tragic than the 13 murders, you've got to be terrified about a "diverse" jury.

The problem that I see with this move is this -- it tends to legitimize the terrorist agenda, to make this an ordinary crime (on a mass scale, to be sure) and not a new form of warfare that is not to be played by the established rules of warfare (declarations, codes of conduct, etc).

It should be treated as that new form of warfare that we arbitrarily define to be outside the pale, and therefore subject to arbitrary justice.

Even Bush and Cheney were perhaps too soft on these people. They would have been better to divide the Gitmo prisoners into the truly guilty and the small fish caught up in a bigger game.

The truly guilty should have been executed Nuremburg style within 18 months of being detained -- trials could have been held in any reasonably non-contentious place, but surely not New York City. Perhaps some place like Fort Stockton, TX if they didn't want the media assembling in Gitmo (hey now there's an idea !!!)

The small fish could then have been given a merciful release, since they would probably just fade back into the labyrinth which is sure to produce a steady stream of new "martyrs" in the coming years.

A summary execution would have sent the right message -- mess with us, and you'll pay with your life, no moral uncertainties about are we right or wrong to terminate your sorry lives.

If we don't know what is evil, then how can we hope to be good?

This is Obama's paradigm -- he is so obsessed with being "fair and just" that he ends up being nothing but "a reed shaking in the wind."

Now you would have to agree, Jesus might have been thinking about just that example when He asked His famous question about said reed shaking in the wind. Or maybe it was Harry Re(e)d.

ET:
I think the Fort Hood speech was an example of his complete lack of empathy to the human emotional current that carries us all.
The shocked silence at the beginning as he talks about the Native Chief instead of the slaughter spoke as nothing else of his disconnect from people.
He has to guess how people are feeling. He has no internal reference or understanding. He misses entirely the external body language of folks. I do agree with your analysis. He has no Religion except himself. As for the trial when dealing with a devil its best to assume the worst.
JMO

Slightly OT: somebody here recently mentioned the electric chair in a comment concerning the US Military's use of the death penalty. Apparently it's been 50 years since it was last applied(?).
Anyone know for certain how the US Mil. administers the death penalty currently? Just curious.