More from telegraph.co.uk

Sergeant Munley, 34, was unconcious after being shot three times by Hasan and was rushed to hospital after she lost so much blood doctors thought she would die.
[---]

Dr Kelly Matlock, who treated Munley in hospital, said: "She opened her eyes and said, 'Did anybody die?' That's what she said." Sgt Munley has now been told that Hasan killed 13 people and wounded 38 but her actions saved the lives of many others.
[--]

Sgt Munley, a mother of two daughters, is just 5ft 3ins tall, but colleagues described her as a "fireball" and a "tough cookie." She is a member of Fort Hood's SWAT team.

Thanks Kate...posted.

Great story. Many lives were lost, but many were saved. Well done.

Kim,
it's extremely weird for a guy in Dallas to be writing you through a blog in Canada. But if anyone is universally a citizen of North America, with a foot equally in both countries, it's Kate.

I want to sincerely thank you for your conscientious, courageous, and professional assistance at this terrible site of carnage.

I imagine you saved lives and were a tremendous comfort for the injured and traumatized victims.

I'm very grateful that you were on the scene.

Thanks Kim for doing what you do and thanks Kate for having Kim post her info.

Best regards,
Pat

Wow, all this from someone who was apparently never asked for her "credentials" during a time of crisis , but was allowed to do what she does best in a time of crisis, help others who can't help themselves.

Was she qualified ? Was she certified ? Did she have malpractice coverage ?? Where were the authorities ??

She seems like one of those people who in the heat of battle..........if allowed to, would have pulled a gun out of her purse (purchased with her own money) and shot the SOB dead at the earliest possible opportunity. ?? I bet she would have said "gun control be damned".

I hope the government comes and takes her away !!

Wait. Thanks Kim. !!

Those of us who have read your story say "thanks, please keep doing what you do".

Kimberly Munley may have just fired another "shot heard around the world". Perhaps this incident will revive the American Spirit that was first established at Concord so long ago. We can only hope that the 'libs and dems' will finally see what they have done to "North America" and begin to correct and atone for their mistakes.

I'd fight beside either one of them any day!Looks like I may have to convince one of the granddaughters to name her first born Kim.
These two women epitomize everything about courage and duty,something we seem to be losing at an amazing rate,thanks to PCness/multi-culti and lefturds.

You have to admire these folks. Its a job few could do.

If it ever gets to the point where we forget who the real heroes are in this world, we're done like toast, and frankly we're not all that far from that. I've had just about enough of the Al Gores and the Barack Obamas and the John Edwards and the Bonos and the Stings and the dancing queens of all descriptions.

The courageous, real-world, modest, non-intellectualizing, non-frivolous, non-dancing, non self-absorbed people like Kate's friend Kim, and officer Kimberly Munley, are the fundament. In a perfect world, people like Kim Munley would make every wide-awake person heartsick by comparison with the rest. The pointless, frivolous endeavours of those egotistical, self-considered, self-pleasuring remora who endlessly try to turn their moral absence into a sententious lesson for those who are less profoundly self-absorbed should be identified for the damaging force that they are.

One needn't have seen Fargo to recognize what's ineffably beautiful about Officer Kim Munley's face. It should haunt and hurt and ache every wide-awake person who sees it. It's not a face you could ever fake, no matter how hard you tried. There's a pointed absence of any kind of lie whatsoever. She's modest and mortal and courageous, she's there, she's present. She embodies the perpetual forefront of those who turn heartsickness into resolve and action.

God bless her. Hopefully we'll wake up, at some point and realize realize what's valuable, and what isn't.

God bless the REAL heroes, as opposed to those who put on a costume for self-pleasuring purposes and then lecture the rest of us.

Horror of serious accidental injury is confronting, but the added horror that these people were killed and injured in their daily, peaceful lives, carrying out their normal daily tasks, and not in a war zone, makes this all the harder to comprehend.

Thank goodness you have been trained to do your job and could put the horror aside until the people were in expert hands in hospitals.

Ditto what Greg in Dallas and Pat said.
My condolences for the dead and wounded caused by this act of terrorism.
I thank God Sergeant Munley is alive and recovering.
Hopefully she will get the Congressional Medal of Honor for her actions and courage.
Hopefully it isn't sent via the post office.
I'll bet B Hussein Obama doesn't want that photo op.

Wow, Kate. I know what it's like to know people who are in the centre of a violent, bloody attack. My ex is from Baghdad, Iraq. During Gulf War I it was the eiriest of feelings to know that people I knew were having bombs dropped all around them. The thing is, every single one of them wanted the Butcher of Baghdad gone and they were sorely disappointed that Bush I and the allies didn't go all the way into Baghdad and get the monster. Because my then husband was from Iraq, I was among the few Canadians that knew what was going on during Saddam Hussein's reign of terror and that's why I supported both Gulf War I and Dessert Storm. I have a real soft spot in my heart for the American military and the American people - except of course those the 'libs and dems' of whom Antenor speaks. And to think there is still three more years of B. Hussein before the yanks can correct course. I wish I could vote in American elections.

You have said very well, what I would wish to say EBD. Thank-you for posting this Kate.

Kate, Thanks for giving us this!

What strikes me most about this terrifyingly real and beautiful account is that amidst the horror spawned by Jihad your friend Kim was able to use her training, rely on her experience, maintain her presence of mind and contain her emotional response in order to play her part in the miracle of Western Civilization.

Her cool-headedness and bravery (along, of course, with that of Officer Munley and all of the bystanders whom she also praises) is the very kind of expression of the Western style of thought and values in action that has brought us to the pinnacle of human achievement. It is not the phony "selflessness" of the progressive left. It is a world removed from the human cog-in-the-machine of communism. And it is from an entirely different universe from the self-surrendered slave of Allah who she so pointedly refers to as “the shooter”.

If only our leaders could summon the courage, intelligence and common sense to meet the threats of creeping socialism and the aggressively expanding Caliphate with such a cool head and clear vision.

I've posted it at BotB- Here

"We can only hope that the 'libs and dems' will finally see what they have done to "North America" and begin to correct and atone for their mistakes." (Antenor)

Don't hold your breath. They passed health "reform" last night, and judging from the smile on Nancy Pelosi's face, she's very pleased with what she's done.

Thank you, Kim, for being there to help and comfort.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6521758/Fort-Hood-shooting-Texas-army-killer-linked-to-September-11-terrorists.html

Thanks Kim. Others on this thread sum up my feelings as well.

Thank you, Kim, and thank you, Kate, for posting this.

Kate, thank you for having Kim post this. There are a lot of sick, twisted people in this world. What keeps it sane is the good people like Kim, who risk their lives to saves others. I can not imagine being at the center of a war zone like that. Very compelling story. My thoughts and prayers go to the victims, family members and rescue workers.

Thanks Kim for the update and for all that you have done for those injured. First responders, risking life and limb, exposing themselves repeatedly to the horrors and tragedies of the world in order to help others are truly exceptional people!

Thank you.

'Can't say it better than you, EBD. Ditto.

Thanks, Kate, for posting this.

Thanks, Kim, for being there for the fallen, in such a senseless massacre, the motive about which the authorities are still scratching their heads. WAKE UP, IDIOTS.

Thanks, Kimberly Munley, for running right into the middle of the melee, as you were trained to do (unlike the spineless American "leaders"), for your strength of character, the strength of your convictions, and for being a true hero. Even if Obamanation never acknowledges your bravery, countless other millions do and will.

G*d bless all of the dead and wounded and their families. And G*d bless America. Please G*d, they wake up from their unfortunate slumber under Sandman Obama.

Hasan gave many, many warning signs he was unstable and unreliable and yet no action was taken. One other thinbg how did this guy reach the rank to major when he'd never, at least from what I've gleaned, been involved in any combat whatsoever?

Thanks for sharing this Kim ... you are clearly one of those people who stand guard while the rest go about their lives. Our civilization will always be in debt to people like you.

And to EBD ... perfect!

Thamks for stepping up. When the world turns upside down there are those that step up and there are those that hide. There were a lot of good people step up and you can be proud to be one of them.

The motto for this time of the year is "Lest We Forget" I fear that we already have.
It is people like Kim and Kimberly that remind us that freedom is not just another word and that freedom is not free.

The MSM is really amazing how they fall over backwards to label this guy as mentally ill, or as a nice guy who wouldn't hurt a fly or as pushed to the brink by soc-called harassment.

The worst was Mark Kelly on Newsworld (or Connect or whatever they call it) interviewing a reporter from Al-Jazeera network who recounted how he felt discriminated against as a Muslim when covering the Iraq war.

Medals aren't good enough for the sergeant. She deserves a visit from Chuck Norris.

Thanks Kim, for taking the training and being prepared. Being able to to your job under these stressful and panic situations so well is a testament to just doing the right thing when called on.
Well done!!!
Thanks Kate, we need these lifts when things are tough and down!

Wondering where were all the doctors and military police on this "largest U.S. army base in the world"?

at the Mosque for prayers?

I recall saying to a Bosnian-Serb friend of mine when the troubles started there....

"This is happening because you forgot and it will continue until you remember."

Bump to EDB---now it's our turn into the breach...

Regretably, I predict we will see more of this sort of thing before we see less. Now is the time of our trial....
LETS ROLL!!!

"at the Mosque for prayers?"

Obama is probably planning on going to the mosque to apologize for the actions of the police woman. After all she jumped to the wrong conclusion just because an Arab looking person was yelling Aloha Snackbar and shooting unarmed people she thought maybe there was something wrong with him and shot him. What she should have done is engaged him in conversation thereby getting to know him. Obviously she is guilty of a hate crime and Obama will point out that this is just another stupid action by law enforcement.

Good job Kim. Thank God for people like you.

Every time something like this happens, where another muslim nut case goes off, and the "moderate" muslims do not speak up against their extremists, the rift between us gets wider. More and more when I see muslims here in Canada, especially when they have the obvious garb on, I cannot help but think of the differences in our culture. Churchill said it best:
http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/27711

When the average joe muslims start to stand up against the wacky views in their midst, then they can gain themselves some respect. Otherwise, as a group, they get and deserve none.

If this would have been a nutcase spouting out verses from the bible, mowing down people in a mosque, can you imagine the resulting media coverage, followed by rampages and bloodshed all over the world? It's a given.

Thanks for this Kate, nothing like a reality wack upside the head with Sunday coffee.....

Kate: " 'Allahu Akbar!'---It's the new 'cry for help'." Brilliant.

In an event like this, there are always (at least) two issues: (1) The event itself; what caused it; whether the authorities were negligent, and so on; and (2) What we think and therefore say about it. On the latter, the question de jour is 'Was this a case of Islamic Terrorism?' The liberal apologists are flooding the public forum with every conceivable excuse: He was troubled; he had been insulted; he "snapped" due to PTSD, and so he was non compos at the time, and therefore not responsible; "he was depraved on account of he was deprived" (OK, we haven't heard that one yet, but give them time); etc. But even among the more sane commenters, there are those who are reluctant to call it 'islamic terrorism', and they include those who assert that it would be terrorism only if there had been a conspiracy---that is, only if it had involved more than one person, was premeditated, organized (by a "master mind") and so on. According to known facts as of this morning, he premeditated, planned, acted alone---he murdered 13 and tried to murder many more in the name of Allah. So, call it what it was: Islam inspired mass murder.

Now, tell us again how harmless unrestricted muslim immigration is. Tell us once more of the virtues of multiculturalism.

Thank you to both 'Kims'.

Thank you 'Kate' for posting this.

Thanks to Kate for posting Kim's enlightening note to Kate's readers, especially to Canadians.
Kim's immediate involvement would never reach a Canadian audience via Canadian MSM.

CBC it seems turns to al-Jazeera the home of former CBC yapper Avi Lewis to spin the story.

God bless you Kim and your associates and don't forget Kate and SDA either, for that matter!

"guilty of a hate crime"
"engaged him in conversation thereby getting to know him"
sorry, that would be an insult to Muhammad for a woman,

She should have surrendered her weapon and begged Allah for forgiveness.

Thanks Kate and Kim. Sad but moving story and first hand account.

In response to Joe Molnar's statement about the MSMs minimalist reporting - take a look at the "left wing sites as in most of them there is NO or just passing reference to the tragedy.

"The worst was Mark Kelly on Newsworld ..."

Mark Kelley is one of the worst of the worst on the marxist broadcorping castration. This is the jerk that was interviewing a senior Dutch official a couple of years ago and, in true urinalist fashion, lectured her on why the Dutch should not be restricting immigration.

Mark Kelley = the new Avi Lewis.

I linked to this post as well.

Right after doing another post on the hero who defeated the Islamic jihadist.

Spectator article below eloquently documents what the authorities actually knew about Hasan and how they did NOTHING.

Here.

Thanks for the post, and the life-saving actions.

Was it Islamic terrorism? Yes. In my view, it was. It wasn't carried out by an Al Qaeda group but by, presumably, a single Islamic individual. Why is it terrorism? Because such violence against others is promoted by Islam.

The problem is, that Islam is a socioeconomic and political ideology, defensively cloaked as a religion. Such a cloak disables the reform of the political agenda of Islam. And Islam says it publicly - that agenda is to control, by enslavement or killing, all who are not Islamic.

"Qur'an 98:6—Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islam, the Qur'an and Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikun will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.

Qur’an 9:29—Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

What is needed, is for our public speakers, on the MSM and in government, to acknowledge the problem. The problem that Islam does not separate church and state, but that its religious ideology is also a political ideology - and that political agenda is a militant control of all other peoples.

And, Muslims around the world have to, themselves, start to separate the political from the religious axioms of Islam, and reject its 7th century tribal militancy.

Two things. We in the West have to acknowledge this anamoly of Islam; its merger of religious axioms with a political agenda. Such a merger makes it very difficult for the ever-conciliatory West, always ready to accomodate the religious issues of another people...to also reject the glued-on political agenda embedded within that religion.

And Muslims have to acknowledge this two-headed nature of Islam, and reject the political agenda.

Well said EBD and ET. Islam is a religion controlled by narrow minded bigoted individuals more concerned with their wealth and power. WE are at war and hopefully this terrible terrorist attack will awaken Americans and motivate them to take back control of their lives and destiny.

Thanks to both Kims and to Kate for posting this.

ET has it right and we ignore this at our peril. The term "religion of peace" is code for one religion for all people and that being Islam.

I am afraid that we will see more of this before the people wake up and tell people like Mark Kelly and the politicians that whitewash these acts where to stick it.

[quote]According to known facts as of this morning, he premeditated, planned, acted alone---he murdered 13 and tried to murder many more in the name of Allah. So, call it what it was: Islam inspired mass murder.[/quote]Nick

That is the truth...cold blooded murder done in the name of Allah (religion) It can't be spun as anything but Jihad in the same league as the those individual Palestine bombers killing Jews in Israel....

The Major was born an American, was above average intelligence, was professionally rewarded & recognized, but failed to respect or understand our order of human priorities. He resorted to a 13th century call to arms (Jihad) by Allah

The Islam nations are engaged in a religious war.. We are in denial, that denial is not rational or sustainable.

God bless the 13 who were murdered.

Note: The people on the ground, in the early time frame, reported accurately to the Media. Both Fox & CNN reported that a wounded gunman was in custody (truth) and 2 more suspects were been sought. The number on dead & wounded was changing as the information became available….

When the WH became involved the Truth was lost (Gunman Dead, not a terrorist act) & the General’s first press Conference was focused on suppressing the truth. The Media coverage became controlled & orchestrated to deceive. It wasn’t until the next morning that the truth went back to gunman in custody. Strange ! and needs to be explained… Is the WH that incompetent & freaky?

Hopefully she will get the Congressional Medal of Honor for her actions and courage.

Hopefully she'd reject such a proffered award which contains the word "congress". That would entail gangsters basking in reflected light.

EBD: Awesome, beautiful post. You are a truly gifted writer. Choked reading that.

ET: Yeah, that's job#1 -- getting the elites to make the fine distinctions: separating religion from totalitarian political ideology. Sadly, most Muslims, whom we criticize for their silence, probably agree with us but, absent courageous political leadership, are understandably keeping a low profile. As Steyn so eloquently put it, "you can't assimilate with a nullity".

Message to Kate: Fort Hood: One Paramedic's Perspective (Nov, 8)
Hi, I'm a German TV journalist and film maker with the main German/European channel "ARD"
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARD
currently been researching for a documentary on future models of care (stay-play and scoop-run) in Germany, Israel and the US. I would love if you'd like to talk to me via Email (mihae@online.de) on that operation. Any hint on web based sources how your colleagues deals with the situation on the spot would be highly appreciated too. Best regards, Michael Haenel Aachen, Germany.

It is said he fired around 100 shots, so good thing he is a poor shot or many more would be dead and injured. He is probably thinking he will not get into paradise as he wasn't killed during the his terror rampage.
If heads rolled because a team got the flu shot, many heads should roll at Fort Hood for refusing to take action when they should have.
But, even if he had been court marshalled or discharged, he would still have done what he did.
How many more are walking among us. For some reason we assume an attack will be by many terrorists at a time, not just one.
Is the enemy doing these things, one at a time, to see what the response will be.

Kate, you know the best people.

"Hopefully she will get the Congressional Medal of Honor"

The MoH is a military award. Sgt. Munley should be awarded the Cong. Medal of Freedom.

She should also be nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize; her actions, unlike those of the most recent recipient, actually restored peace.

Headline in today's Ottawa Citizen:

"Motive probed in Fort Hood shooting rampage"

hmmm...

MaryT- We can watch, and be vigilant all we want, but without the capacity to act, we're pretty well hooped.

A friend of mine was returning from Arizona, right after 9/11. On a breakfast stop, in Idaho, he was a bit shocked to see every other patron of the restaurant wearing a big old handgun. After his initial shock, he began to feel fairly secure among those folks.

If we hire more cops, and private security, we're surrendering ourselves to a police state. The only way to stay truly safe, is to enable every citizen of this country with the ability to act. Sure, we're going to have problems. Not everyone is qualified to act responsibly. But, the alternatives are not acceptable.

The silver lining to this dark cloud will be the stripping away of the RoP myth.
Those that have been blissfully unaware just had a rude awakening, and those who've been in the forefront sounding the alarm, just gained a whole pile of credibility and new 'recruits'.
Robert Spencer's book sales should reach new heights...
http://www.amazon.ca/Stealth-Jihad-Radical-Subverting-America/dp/1596985569/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257705585&sr=1-3

I wonder how well BC's-on strike to save lives-ambulance crew would've handled a situation like that, they'd probably need the fire dept. to tell them what to do.

Ditto Black Mamba's comment at 1:08.

EBD

That post was beautiful,curios that the trolls aren't around today with the usual racist finger pointing,maybe feeling a little inadequate.

Thank you Kate for this posting. The tragedy demonstrated both the worst and the best side of humanity. The worst being the cold-blooded murder of so many innocent victims along with the wounding of yet more, and the best was Kim and others like her. The Kims of the world should be in the headlines of our MSM instead of empty suits called politicians along with scammers seeking to create any crisis from which they can profit.

I also agree with ET's comments that the ball is in the Muslims' court. However, it is also in our court in that our leaders and authorities must cease consulting Muslim mullahs, clerics and Islamic organisations for their input on policies. By doing so they lump all Muslims together within their country, especially those who simply want to live in peace without sharia, with the radicals. We can only encourage a reform of Islam, which must be done by Muslims, by removing the spotlight and stage from the fundamentalists.

Dredded Boink - that quote from Winston Churchill would be headlines in any normal society, right now. Winston had personal experience with Islam. Winston saved our sorry hide (not F. Roosevelt) from the Nazis and Winston wanted to liberate the Soviet Union from the Bolsheviks after our soldiers finished off Hitler. Churchill, like Lord Moncton, was fighting on the side of freedom loving people everywhere. Churchill would have known how to deal with this internal treat to our way of life.

My Mom says that most of the Canadian soldiers in WWII fought for Canada and Sir Winston Churchill; she says that they saw Churchill as their leader. Mom, like Kate's friend Kim, would know as she was in England at the time, in the RCAF: 'serving so that men may fight'.

ET

Good job on digging deeper into the nature of Islam. You used to scare me a year or so ago.

Good job on digging deeper into the nature of Islam. You used to scare me a year or so ago.

Posted by: BL@KBIRD
................

Has ET toned down, or have you wised up? ;-)

Were any others in the immediate Hood area armed ?

The first time I was at a gun and hobby meet, I thought mmmm.

A lot of guns here. A lot of ammunition. Some crazy could really make hay.

Nope. If a nut-case was looking for an opportunity to shoot it up, would he choose a Utopian University setting or a gun show ?

I suggest, even a nutso can see the light. Within seconds, one or more of the hunter types would have taken this guy out. And probably save many lives.

Bellow the Beltway posts an excerpt from a BBC interview with Duane---fellow mosque-goer of Hasan.

http://belowthebeltway.com/2009/11/08/hasans-fellow-mosque-member-im-not-going-to-condemn-him-for-what-he-did/

Money quote: "in the end, they were troops who were going to Afghanistan and Iraq to kill Muslims. I honestly have no pity for them."

Over at Ace of Spades, DrewM. posts a quote for Gen. George Casey:

"What happened at Fort Hood was a tragedy, but I believe it would be an even-greater tragedy if our diversity becomes a casualty here," he said. "We have a very diverse army. We have a very diverse society. And that gives us all strength."

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/294510.php

So, it would be a "tragedy" even greater than the Fort Hood murders were our liberal preferences for inclusivity and diversity---as if those have some value independently of what gets included---to ... What? Get questioned? Wondered aloud about? Moderated as a result of the fact that we're now including religion-crazed mass murderers in the Army BECAUSE they're muslim. Cultural suicide. Casey should be fired.

Meanwhile, over at Fox news, we have to endure Gerald-O who just has to tell us that he feels most sorry for good Muslim GIs who now will be subjected to even more discrimination than they were after 9-11. Gerald-O should be fired.

new info just
sh!t full of are so you.

"The MoH is a military award. Sgt. Munley should be awarded the Cong. Medal of Freedom."
Tks Katherine. I forgot about that.

Bernie at 1:45pm

I am neither an ambulance attendant or first responder of any sort. Neither am I a supporter of almost anything done by and for the unions but I have to say your statement is among the dumbest and most ill-advised I have ever had the misfortune to read or hear. Whatever possessed you to write that tripe?

blackbird - I'm saying the same thing now that I said a year ago.

I've always pointed out that Islam is a tribal mentality, which means that it supports a group-based fidelity against what it views as Other groups - who are all defined as enemies..who must be conquered, killed, controlled.

And that Islam is less of a religion, with most of its axioms taken from the Judaism of the time, and is primarily a socio-economic and political ideology. One that is suited only, and I mean only, to a non-industrial isolated pastoral economy.

It's a defensive ideology, and if you read the texts, you get the sense that it emerged in an era when some peoples were settling more and more land..moving the economy into agriculturalism and a market trade...while others were attempting to retain the land base for a pastoral (cattle) economy..which is migratory rather than settled.

Get it? Two different uses of the land. One settles the land, increases its production of goods and its population, sets up a market based economy that requires people to get along and be neighbours and collaborate. That's the emergence of Christianity, based on the economic infrastructure of the Roman roads, irrigation and protection.

The other economy is a nomadic one, based around a requirement for large tracts of land left free, to use during the migratory season, for large and small animal-based (rather than grains) economy. That's the Islamic one - and this economy was 'pagan'..but when the settlemements began ato encroach on those free lands, the pastoral economy moved into an 'idealistic' or utopian manic ideology of militant and vicious defense of those lands. Thus was born Islam, which is less of a religion and primarily a defensive and expansionist militant political and economic ideology.

And this ideology remains rooted in the tribal societal axioms of that 7th c period. Group oriented; rejects individual freedom of thought; rejects reason. Rejects science. It froze itself in the 7th c, and set itself up - with that merger of religion and political - into a dead state, unable to change and adapt.

That's why we in the West have to confront this two-headed monster, point out its monstrosity to it, and assist it to change. Bush's war in Iraq, enabling it to move, politically, into a democracy with a constitution and rule of law..rather than a tribal elite (Saddam Hussein) as hereditary ruler...was a vital act.
More needs to be done..insisting that other Islamic nations move out of a tribal political structure and into a democracy.

The West has to understand the two-heads and confront that political agenda..and insist that this be public, talked about, questioned.

"Muslims have to acknowledge this two-headed nature of Islam, and reject the political agenda".

And right after that we will convince the Christians to give up their salvation and the Jews to give up their dietary laws and the ....

Sorry but the political agenda in Islam is foundational to the religion. Taking the political agenda out of Islam is like gelding the stallion and expecting colts next spring.

BCer, though hopefully it was an isolated incident this is exactly what happened during the recent strike of Toronto's CUPE. The EMS responded and got to the site where a man had had a heart attack withing a few minutes then sat outside the apartment building saying they didn't feel safe and were waiting for police assistance.
There was zero need for them to do this except union behaviour. The man died some 1/2 hour later without the EMS coming to his aid.

This case is being investigated but as usual after a strike as Miller signed the contract agreeing to not pursue union wrongdoing during the strike such as beating up citizens dropping off garbage at union controlled sites probably nothing will be done.

My condolences to those killed and injured at Fort Hood and absolute heartfelt praise for those who came to their rescue.

No, Joe, I disagree with you.

The dietary laws of the Jews, which, by the way, are very similar to the dietary laws of Muslims, are not equivalent to a political agenda of domination of other tribes. And, you perhaps may not know this, but reform Judaism has dropped many of the dietary rules.

Equally, the Christian salvation is not comparable to a dietary law nor to a political agenda. It is a metaphysical construct and therefore, completely different from the realm of the 'actual' physical world.

Political agendas can be changed. How? By defining them as human rather than metaphysical constructs and therefore, open to human reconstruction. Muslims are fighting for freedom of thought, rejection of 'jihad' as a holy was and understanding it as a personal spiritual agenda, fighting to enable gender equality, and so on. We in the West have to openly support this, openly reject the terrorist and fundamental aspect of Islam.

Your idea,joe, seems to lead to a complete rejection of Muslims. What are you planning to do with them? Thrown them off the edge of the flat earth? There are too many of them; what must be done is a constant insistence on reform, on collaboration with the West, on their rejection of tribalism.

[deleted. if you want to write crap like this, you need to get your own blog, and sign your own name and address to it. ED]

Thank you Kate for posting Kim's hands-on, first hand account of this terror attack as she rushed in to save lives!

Thank you Kim for sharing this with us. As well as to those who ran "in" right away.
Heroes all over, especially a female officer named Kim, Sgt Munley.
Who's alive and hopefully doing well.
As already stated eloquently above, my thanks as well to the usual great commenters.

R.I.P for the fallen and prayers and best wishes for the fast recovery for the wounded of this unprovoked attack.

A few years ago I had my head buried deep under the hood of my worn out car. It had stalled and it didn't seem to matter what I did it just wouldn't start. As I skinned my knuckles one more time ET stopped by and made the helpful suggestion that the reason my car wouldn't move is because the engine wasn't running. Funnily enough ET never made any suggestion on how I could make the car move because she was too busy disagreeing with me when I said the engine won't run.

Now what was it some wag posted on SDA? In theory, theory and reality are the same thing. In reality they are not.

Just give army one flower of respect to stop the war inside and outside as soon as they can

Only army can stop the war sooner is better
they know better than us
====

General Casey: I'm 'concerned' about backlash against Muslim soldiers
politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com - Washington (CNN) – The Army Chief of Staff hesitated Sunday to get into any details of the investigation into Thursday’s shootings at Fort Hood. At the same time, Gen. George Casey said he was ‘concerned’ that the incident could result in a potential backlash against Muslim soldiers.

momar - I think your comment is unacceptable and trivializes the real problem the world, and Islam, has with Islam.

The real problem is an ideology that has merged a religious perspective about the metaphysical with a political perspective about the material world. That's not a trivial but a major problem.

The political perspective is militant tribalism which exhorts its followers to kill and/or subdue any and all peoples of 'other tribes'.

The societal perspective is 'groupism', so to speak, which privileges the group against the individual. The individual has no freedom to think, dissent, question, innovate, change. This sets up a no-change society trapped in repetition of a 7th century culture.

These are very serious problems, for the political and societal axioms, tied to religious authority, render Muslims unable to participate in the modern world economy.

Coupled with this frozen politico-societal structure, is the tribalism of the Islamic nations. That is, the Islamic nations haven't moved into a civic political mode that treats all as equal and rewards individual merit; i.e., establishes a hard-working middle class and gives this class economic and political power.

Instead, the Islamic nations have retained the old hereditary tribal political structure which awards authority to hereditary kin/families and no-authority to the rest of the population. There is no political or economic reward for hard work; the mass of the population remains without power. This anamoly in the modern world is the 'root cause' of Islamic fascism, which is a utopian movement that seeks to deal with the lack of power by, almost mythically, returning to a fictional world..where the proposition is:
IF you live as a non-industrial 7th c. Muslim, THEN, everything will be perfect.

Doesn't work that way. In a population in the multimillions, you need industrialism, and industrialism operates within a flexible, rapidly adaptive middle class who have the economic and political power to adapt and progress. A hierarchial elitist tribal authority is against change...and can't foster industrialism.

Instead of our authorities in Canada and the US, hastening to assure Muslims that we don't blame them for the Fort Hood (and other) incidents, these same authorities, and we, ought to insist that Islam confront its ideological political agenda of domination and militant killing of non-Muslims, debate this agenda among its own peoples..and reject it.

Instead, we tolerate radical imams preaching hate and violence, ..because they do it within the cloak of religion; we tolerate individuals expressing support for those who murder in the name of Islam; we hide these actions as 'psychological twisted people'.

We cover up honour killings and pretend they are 'just domestic violence'.
We ignore the isolation of women dressed in veils, despite our knowing full well that this is a cultural rather than a religious edict.

We shouldn't do this. We have to help the Muslims confront their own two-headed ideology, and separate 'church and state'. How? By refusing to accept a religious support for a political agenda.

'Allahu Akbar!'---It's the new 'cry for help'."

Best headline since Drudge's "The Ego Has Landed."

Well, joe, your example of the car showed us the problem. You didn't know how to start the car. That's a real world problem.

So, I'll ask you again, what's your suggestion, in the real world, of dealing with Muslims and their two-headed ideology?

Talking about how impossible it is won't solve the problem, will it?

BCer, question/comment based on 20+ year contact in the fire dept.

Muslim say Allah akaber so many times per day
in their pray to god

nothing "new" for us to hear it
this is new for you
just say as we say Allah will help you

I do not need to cry I am helping you get over
topic of Muslim
8 year war is enough just wrape it up
find solution stop fighting

plus I was wonder every body know
" full and final release" signed on Auge 7, 2006 signed by Hassan in legal law sue
the Wendy Earle agreed to pay so many peopel as letter said still she did not pay a penny

how come in Canada one women can corrupt system and nobody ask her any question so far for 4 years
wendy shoot the Hassan and this is proof corruption in lawyers system in Canada

==
such as

Employees of walmart approx. 2,100,000

and we have 2 million unemployeed in Canada

just made new store
new brand name

and work to open new market and hire
unemployee people who are out of job for more than 6 month

and ask only do one small simple job and pay them low income to mid and high job for mangment

more than they got from unemployment

and made share Tawani store exist in middle east
owned by country socialist
Canada can have their own store and stock

to bring all job opening in Canada too
to reduce hate too

war is not only war zone but find so many solution for people

all people are share over minim to live and work
that waht is matter for every body

---
be creative I donot know just made job for people
stop hate stop war stop fighting muslim stop wendy

President Barack Obama to announce extra 34,000 troops for Afghanistan before end of November
President Barack Obama is poised to send an additional 34,000 US troops to Afghanistan, but is set to delay a decision to attempt to persuade Nato allies to expand their commitment to fighting the Taliban. All Nato troop from Afganstan are leaving out include Canadian troop and US troop take over, this is link with
Obama to meet Netanyahu amid doubt on peace talks
on Monday Nov 9, 2009

blackbird - I'm saying the same thing now that I said a year ago.

Not quite ET. You've never quoted the Koran; in fact, you downplayed Islam in favour of generic tribalism. You've never given Islam its full due. Like Bl@ckbird, I too was pleasantly surprised.

Hint: Not all tribes see the whole planet in terms of two camps with a view of making it one camp: the camp of Islam, Dar Al Islam.

British MSM reports:

"Police Heroine Who Brought Down Fort Hood Gunman Lost Half Her Blood After Being Shot

The lightly-built police heroine who is credited with halting the Fort Hood massacre almost died at the scene after losing half the blood in her body.

Mother of one Sergeant Kimberley Munley confronted gunman Nidal Malik Hasan and, despite being wounded in both legs, brought him down with four shots.

One of the shots cut an artery in her leg, leaving blood pumping out but she still managed to keep firing before collapsing.

Heroine: Kim Munley, a civilian police officer, is the woman who brought Hasan down by shooting him four times before he could slaughter more people.

Medic Francisco Delaserna applied a tourniquet to Sgt Munley as she drifted in and out of consciousness because of blood loss.

'I cut her trousers oopen, tied a tourniquet around her thigh and stopped the bleeding. But she had already lost a lot of blood,' he said.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk"

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2381700/posts

ET

you are atheist as you said in all your past post and you only know word called Atheism and judge peopel based on your ideology run in aboriginal Canadain and Hindu and Budism

you do not believe god to judge people who believe god

people who belive one god has not believe
two-headed snake ideology means "Monafeq"
only use for peope who not believe god

atheistbus.ca/

Munāfiq (n., in Arabic: منافق, plural munāfiqūn) is an Islamic Arabic term used to describe a religious hypocrite, who outwardly practices Islam, while inwardly concealing his disbelief (kufr), perhaps even unknowingly.

The term munāfiq in Arabic and Urdu is primarily a non-religious term that refers to a person whose actions are different from and opposite to his thoughts, which he conceals. In the Qur'an sense the term refers to a person who does not have faith, but pretends to. "When the hypocrites come to thee, they say, 'We bear witness that thou art indeed the Apostle of God.' Yea, God knoweth that thou art indeed His Apostle, and God beareth witness that the hypocrites are indeed liars." - (Qur'an 63:1).

The Qur'an has hundreds of ayāt (verses) discussing munāfiqūn, referring to them as more dangerous to Muslims than the worst non-Muslim enemies of Islam. The Qur'an states, "The hypocrites will be in the lowest depths of the Fire: no helper wilt thou find for them." - (Qur'an 4:145).

According to Sahīh Bukhārī, the Prophet said, "Whoever has the following four (characteristics) will be a pure hypocrite and whoever has one of the following four characteristics will have one characteristic of hypocrisy unless and until he gives it up. 1. Whenever he is entrusted, he betrays. 2. Whenever he speaks, he tells a lie. 3. Whenever he makes a covenant, he proves treacherous. 4. Whenever he quarrels, he behaves in a very imprudent, evil and insulting manner."

Me No Dhimmi we know about Israel story well

Well ET by my count there are 16 ex Muslims I know about that are ex Muslims because of what I said. How about you? You see my solution is not trying to reform Islam. My solution is to make Islam nonexistent. Now if you want to babble on about tribalism, political blah blah blahs go right ahead. At the end of your blather the Hasans of this world will still be shooting up the neighbourhood. I harbour no illusions that my little effort will cure all the world's ills but by doing the little bit I pray the world will just that much better a place to live.

I have been without a computer for 10 days. That's over a week of relying on CTV news to keep me in tune with the world.
UN-believable. It was torture.
So my first visit to Kate and I get the real story about Fort Hood, instead of the silly wide-eyed faces exclaiming 'no one knows why this man did it'.And 'he really suffered from anti-Muslim bias'.
Oh my.Poor guy.

Gag me.

Thanks Kate...no time to read all the comments here, because I have some catching up to do. Kim and Kimberly are some of the heroes. Hopefully we will hear more of the real stories. In the meantime the US military needs some prayers and encouragement.EBD...right on!

Betrayal of America by O and its commissars.

The Islam jihad enemy is within America.
...-

"[US] Army Chief of Staff Concerned for Muslim Troops"
(nyt)

"Fort Hood killer ‘does not represent Muslims’: American security chief

ABU DHABI // The killing of 13 people by a Muslim psychiatrist at an American army base must not lead to the victimisation of Muslim Americans, the US secretary of homeland security has said. On a visit to the capital, Janet Napolitano said grassroots efforts were vital to preserving relations between Muslim Americans and the wider community after Friday’s shootings at Fort Hood in Texas. “We object to, and do not believe, that anti-Muslim sentiment should emanate from this,” she said. “This was an individual who does not represent the Muslim faith.” Describing the killings as “a terrible tragedy”, Ms"
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2381698/posts

me no dhimmi - the Qu'ran quotes are superfluous and one must be very careful not to privilege the text but instead understand the structure in which that text was written and is followed. That structure is tribalism. I gave the texts only as examples, not causes, of violence.

Again, the texts are not the cause of the violence; the infrastructure of tribalism, which denies power to the individual as a free thinker, is the problem.

There is no difference between tribalism and Islam. [What's 'generic tribalism'?]

Islam IS a tribal ideology. Most people don't seem to understand or know anything about tribalism; they don't know its infrastructure of 'groupism', of rejection of Others of denial of individualism, denial of reason, science, etc.

To focus on the texts is an error; that's what the phenomenologists, the postmodernists do..they focus on the words and think they are causal. No, absolutely not. I think you focus on the words and call it 'Islam'. No. Islam is a structure not a text.

What has to be examined and understood is the deep structure in which those words emerged.

All tribes see human beings as either members of the tribe..or members of another tribe. That is, they do not see them as all, human beings. The Other tribes may be enemies, may be subservient, may be superior. But there is a hierarchy and evaluation.

As for Islam's original militant agenda of domination, I've explained that, repeatedly, as, in my view, a result of the encroachment of their land base by a different economic system, settled market agriculture.

The modern Islamic fascist agenda of domination, which began in the 19th c, is, I feel, a result of the failure of the Islamic nations to move out of tribalism and into a civic political structure.

joe - that's remarkable, that you can, by 'what you said', 'undo a Muslim'. What did you say? And what are they now?

I cannot reform Islam; it is the Muslims who must reform it. Your agenda of 'removing Islam' by your words is indeed admirable but, given the numbers of Muslims in the world, may I say, rather ineffectual.

My suggestion is that we in the West must reject the political and societal axioms of Islam as tribalisms of the 7th c; reject the imams preaching such agendas in the West under the rubric of religion, and insist that Muslims start to analyze and question the two-headed nature of their ideology.

There are Muslims who are doing exactly this questioning and analyzing - and we should support them and publicize them. Instead, what do we hear from the government? That Hasan's actions were not related to his Muslim beliefs.

But they were, and this ought to be addressed; we ought to protest against these beliefs. These beliefs are not personal texts; they are in the Qu'ran and are preached in various mosques.

You can see a lot of articles that do exactly that; that openly acknowledge that Hasan's actions were rooted in his Islamic ideology, eg, articles by Victor Davis Hanson, by Charles Krauthammer, Michael Ledeen etc. Go to Pajamas Media and Hot Air. These analysts are not pretending, as is the govt and the MSM, that Hasan was merely a victim of 'secondary stress'.

These articles, I suggest, done often enough and in public, with demands that the Islamic world deal with this infrastructure, is 'the way to go'.
And, the govt ought to also do the same thing. Sarkozy is, in France.

Self-preservation instinct dictates that there are not legitimate targets all over the North America.

Self-preservation instinct dictates that there are now legitimate targets all over the North America.

Forgive me ET. I guess I just stumbled on one of your paragraphs that made sense. No, lol, you haven't changed!

ET

Me thinks this "joe" is also the one who CONVERTS gays, enough said on that topic:-)))

as to the tragedy and those who did their jobs, let me be one of those that points back to EBD's post, and concurs

"It is the muslims who must reform Islam"

How long is that going to take? I'm afraid I don't have the patience to wait a couple of centuries. The world will be smoldering rubble by the time they sort things out.

Joe- How in hell did you convert 16 muslims, and what did you convert them to? Unless you converted them to ashes, I doubt you really accomplished anything.

Thanks to Kim for sharing her heroic actions with us . Thanks to Kate for allowing me and many others around the world an insight into the reality of Islamic terrorism.

Well for those who are curious the ex Muslims I wrote about earlier are now Christians. The fact is this: We are engaged in a Spiritual battle and when Spiritual men speak Spiritual Words conversions take place.

ET is like leftists, thinks some manmade "system" will cure the world.

How's that been working for you? For one thing, that approach produced leftists...

Christianity, on the other hand, really did change the world. Which ET seems to recognize, but she wants to take the good results and leave behind the foundation.

What happens when you live in a house with no foundation?

ET always reminds me of this verse;

John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

Like a leftist, she wants to ride on the coattails of others without doing any of the work.

Joe is correct: "The fact is this: We are engaged in a Spiritual battle ..."

Ephesians 6: " ... For our struggle is not against enemies of blood and flesh, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers of this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Therefore, take up the whole armour of God so that you will be able to withstand on that evil day, and having done everything to stand firm" (NRSV).

Not to understand this is our Achilles Heel and is definitely ushering in the sunset of Western Civilization. In these latter days, it seems to be the spirit of the age to want something for nothing: no cost freedom -- which is an absurdity.

As a preacher said yesterday at a Remembrance Day Service, after any war is over, the battle continues. He was referring, of course, to the continual battle between good and evil, compassion and indifference.

heh - yes, I'm an atheist. But that doesn't mean I'm a 'leftist'. What a charge..sigh.

I don't believe in 'god'; I believe in 'Mind'. And I quote my favourite philosopher, Charles S. Peirce:
Thought is not necessarily connected with a brain. It appears in the work of bees, of crystals, and throughout the purely physical world; and one can no more deny that it is really there, than that the colors, the shapes, etc, of objects are really there" (4.551)...

So, I believe in Mind, in the workings of Reason, which is not the sole prerogative of man but of the physical world. Hmmm.

I believe that Christianity is a man-made ideology, developed as an economy was moving into one that required settlement rather than nomadism, that required getting along with Others...
I believe that Islam developed as a militant reaction of a pastoral tribal economy to these settlements and market economies.

oh, and one other thing. It's interesting..I'm an atheist, but I don't denigrate or insult those who do have a belief in god. The opposite is not the case. Strange.

"I believe in Mind".

No you don't. You have created a snuggly warm intellectual cocoon from which you dismiss anything that may cause you discomfort.

In truth is you truly 'believed' in Mind you would be doing everything in your power to contact said Mind. But therein lies the risk. What if that Mind is real and not just and your intellectual construct. What if that Mind actually required that you get out of your cocoon?

Aye there is the rub. Better to sit and pontificate and bask in the pseudo glory of the accolades piled on by simple minded humans. After all that Mind might show me to be a fool. That Mind might destroy the comfy cocoon. Ah yes far better to seek stasis than risk....

god heavens, joe - you are obviously a Platonist. I'm not; I'm Aristotelian.

Mind doesn't exist as some kind of separate metaphysical entity. You can't sit back and contact it, you can't 'dial it up'. Mind is certainly real, but Mind is not a separate entity, but an active ongoing process of logical order, that exists within the ordered interactions and morphologies of the natural world.

Read again, if you wish, what Peirce wrote. Mind is expressed within the order of the natural world.

There's no such thing as a Platonic separate Mind.

Again, there's no need to insult or denigrate me because I do not believe as you do.

Kate, thanks, and thanks to thoughtful commentors.

Linked at Bread upon the Waters.