Girl, the older one got 24 months!

Was at the range last weekend - they have a province-wide petition to abolish HST going. Abolishing YCJA sounds like a more noble cause than that. What would it take to repeal YCJA? A torture-murder? A mass murder? If it saves one life, you know... Ah, does not work THAT WAY, only if it's a duck hunter's gun.

Nothing a good old fashion healing circle won't fix,cue the Whooping Goldberg quote.

c'mon, it's not like it was rape-rape, they only Polanskied her...

I wish I could call this "unbelievable", but it is pretty much par for the course.

victim impact statements? Every judge should begin sentencing symbollically by calling the victim "my daughter", "my family", etc. The maybe the "JUDGE" and lawyers will get 'it'. what has a victim impact statement ever done but just fool the victim or their family into thinking that their sufering and view matters to the justice system? If it was the Judges daughter who was raped would the sentence be the same? Would plea bargains happen all of the time with crown prosecutors? It's all such a sewer and it has to be changed.

it will be appealed to a healing circle.

this kind of stuff is too harsh on our Native soldiers.

"Nothing a good old fashion healing circle won't fix"
Old fashion meaning approximately 20 years old. I believe true traditional justice would have consisted of a severed carotid artery with an obsidian knife.

Kind of makes the argument for a judiciary that's elected, doesn't it? Imagine, if this "judge" ran for re-election, how his opponents would destroy him/her for this judgement?

~~favill~~

Lets not forget Pre-Trial time served!
Liberal Justice Inaction, Hug a thug or a Liberal Senator.

Three things one can count on in life:death,taxes and a two tier justice system.

As Whoopi might say, how do you know it was "rape rape"?

self defence is a criminal offense---taking the law into your own hands.
Dial 911---dial a prayer---
Actually traditionally among the FNs this matter would have resulted in war....attacking a member of another community....an event only avoided by surrendering the offender to the offended group to IT's tender mercy's....not pretty...I approve that....

If Kate did publish their names she'd probably get a stiffer sentence than they got.

Not surprised.
White collar crime has the most severest of sentences - that's what's important here - money.

Best to realize it's a different world today and be way more prepared for this and more aware of your surroundings when it comes to personal safety in Canada anymore.

Sad that the boyfriend wasn't able to kick their asses down right there. Good he got the police and wasn't injured to the point that he couldn't do that.

Just another reason why I favour Capital Punishment. Both of them.

I'd also give the boyfriend a pretty severe ass-kickin'

...a 'street soldier' with the Native Syndicate.

Yes we would like to know which 'disciplined soldiers' practice rape, pillage and plunder as a method to secure "Peace, Order and Good Government" among the "Native Syndicate".

Meanwhile, are we to assume that "To him foreplay is kill husband, burn house".

Cheers

Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief

1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North"

> I'd also give the boyfriend a pretty severe ass-kickin'

You should have sent both boy and girl to karate and aikido clubs at young age instead. Lamenting how he failed her now is stupid and cruel.

I teach self defense, I know how EASY it is to hurt an assailant to make them cry of pain like a sissy.

All it takes is systematic training, that's it. How many parents actually think about possibility of their kids having to defend themselves and the loved ones so seriously, that they send kids training in martial arts for real? Not many. Many more prefer to piss away those $100 a month on booze and cigs.

So now that they've been given a slap on the wrist, what will happen the next time they do this? Sexual predators (I use this word deliberately) have a taste for what they do. Sending such people to prison for a mere few months isn't going to fix things.
Publish their names and faces.

16 months of good food and bad dope.

I recommend N. Korean justice. 15 lashes when most people don't survive 12!

Aaron you are right but you also need the will to inflict horrendous damage and extreme pain knowing you will be the one in the court and you 'know better'.

Heaven help them if anyone tried that to my daughter. I'm thinking a punishment involving a rope and a woodchipper might be in order.

Then we should be starting a "Self-Defense is a Human Right" campaigns, especially in the faces of those prosecutors and judges who would treat the average citizen more harshly than the criminal in that case.

And start an ongoing defense fund to hire legal pit bulls to fight those cases where it can be clearly established.

Don't know what to think of your reply, Speedy.

For me the turning point was a beating I received in the street. That was Rubicon crossed, there was no turning back: since then assailant has no rights, no personality, only the vitals.

The most important part of training is training of spirit. The criminals have self-preservation instinct that helps them identify their prey. They avoid individuals capable of harming them like plague.

99% of the time trained persons don't have to fight.

No lamentations Aaron. Just stating the opinion that there was only one victim here and she was let down by society, her boyfriend and the justice system, in that order.

better yet: let victims and family's hire lawyers that match their ideology for punishment instead of letting whomever's next in line in the crown's rotation represent them incompetently on behalf of the dysfunctional and rehab-the-criminal-centric system.

> there was only one victim here and she was let down by society, her boyfriend and the justice system, in that order.

She was let down by her parents in the 1st place.

Publish their names in violation of the Criminal Code of Canada and your site would be out of business so fast, as well as you being criminally charged.

Any mention of this on CBC or CTV? A significant number of Canadians will will still vote Liberal, NDP or Bloc. Without unspun information, they deserve the legal industry they've got. Unfortunately, the rest of us have to suffer this injustice as well. Looks like some more than others... How long before attrition puts conservatives in the majority of our senate?

I'm guessing more than their names are being protected here.

Must be "rape rape" not real rape.

Publishing their names serves no purpose. They're no bodies to civilized people. Publishing their names might give them more 'street cred' with their other low life peers. Now branding their foreheads if they make it back from a couple years on an ice flow might inform people of what type of animal they are. ChrisinMB's obsidian knife idea has merit too.

Seeing as many criminals only serve 1/2 the imposed semtence, I wonder if 16 months is about double what is actually served.
Canada's #1 enemy....its justice & parole system.

> there was only one victim here and she was let down by society, her boyfriend and the justice system, in that order.

She was let down by her parents in the 1st place.

I understand your point Aaron, I just don't feel that the girls parents are as culpable as the three I listed.

I do agree that people should be prepared to defend themselves and their loved ones. I guess I could have initially said:

"Just another reason I support concealed carry."

This is not a justice system, it's a criminal enabling system.
AND a great place for a job/support for life, on either either side of those temporary jail bars.

Not surprised. White collar crime has the most severest of sentences - that's what's important here - money.

Posted by: ldd at October 16, 2009 2:19 PM

I don't know ldd, them Wall Street Boys got off pretty easy.
---------------------------

Many more prefer to piss away those $100 a month on booze and cigs.

Posted by: Aaron at October 16, 2009 2:36 PM

Aaron ? Can you please point me in the right direction where I can smoke and drink for a $100 a month ?

> I just don't feel that the girls parents are as culpable as the three I listed.

This is the definition of the problem with Canadian society.

> Can you please point me in the right direction where I can smoke and drink for a $100 a month ?

No, I can't. You would need a supplement, and being able to quickly size your comprehension skills, I can estimate that you will need to rob a few old ladies a month for that.

This is not a justice system, it's a criminal enabling system.
AND a great place for a job/support for life, on either either side of those temporary jail bars.

16 Months! Why, I hope that includes no TV privileges as well (sarc off). That'll fix em.

If you moved the hosting to a US based server, could you publish without fear of the Canadian Justice system?

Ratt at October 16, 2009 3:36 PM

Agreed their 'white collar' sentence fit their crimes, but that was in the USA not here. Here, I still contend that white collar crimes, ie insurance fraud get stiffer sentences than say for someone ( esp visible minorities ) who do serious violent crime that affects their victims/families just as negatively and does just as much damage.

robp:

As I am particularly interested in repealing YCJA's privacy provisions, I though about that. Probably not, as it is unpredictable to what extent RCMP will go to investigating a violation of CCC/YCJA by an 'American'. It may come to bite the publisher in the rear.

But there is cheap hosting in the countries Canada has no extradition treaty with.

> I just don't feel that the girls parents are as culpable as the three I listed.

This is the definition of the problem with Canadian society.

The problem with Canadian society is that we're more concerned about a criminal than decent people.

If you hurt or kill a criminal while defending your person or property you're just as likely to get arrested as they are.

Aaron, I think we're basically on the same page, but arguing over minutiae.

Here's my favourite arguement on crap like this:

1. A jail on Han Island where the guards wear white fur coats.

2. When one of these precious folks are parolled they become the responsibility of the individual parole board members and get to stay with one of them.

I wonder what ever happened to common sense in this country (or the one next door for that matter).

This incident screams for elected judges and the the right to carry concealed firearms.

Smith said the teen being sentenced on Wednesday has not showed remorse for the crime, and is only bothered that his co-accused broke a gang code by co-operating with police.

Is THAT worth anything when sentencing someone? Or, it maybe it was considered and he didn't get a 3 month sentence. Sweet.

Hollywoods trickle down morality and the liberal sense of justice.The CBC and the toronto party would definately approve that two out of three lives are salvagable.

"I teach self defense, I know how EASY it is to hurt an assailant to make them cry of pain like a sissy."

Then I suppose you also must know how difficult it is to defend against knives, which is what these thugs were armed with.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure we're basically on the same page here. I would submit though that concealed carry is always a better option than martial arts, although sadly it isn't an option in Canada. But I digress, a 120 pound woman, no matter how well trained, is gonna have little chance against a 250 pound thug. The same woman trained with a pistol is an equal to any opponent.

All of that said, lets not get distracted from whats at issue here. Saying they should have been prepared and that their parents failed them is beginning to miss the mark, and edging towards the idea that the thugs weren't 100% responsible.

How is it that if you touch a woman without her consent it is regarded as assault with severe penaltys attached but if you rape her its a minor offence subject to 16 months with double time for already served,manditory parole,and no limitations on being near the person raped when released.Shouldnt there be a civil action here someplace? Wheres Tony when we need him?

"You should have sent both boy and girl to karate and aikido clubs at young age instead."

I'm a firm believer in training kids to fight but...everyone shouldn't have to learn how to fight to protect themselves against thugs. It's the thugs who need to be stopped.

And Junker is right, it is difficult to defend against knives no matter how good you are. I did some training in knife fighting and I've also been in a few knife fights. Things don't fall together in real life like they do in the dojo's.

> Aaron, I think we're basically on the same page, but arguing over minutiae.

Yes, in my mind I was not arguing with you, just sort of nodding and adding a comment. Good or bad, for the first 10-15 years in life children can't make their own informed decisions for lack of life experience, and it's the parent's responsibility to teach them (specially girls) how to stay out of trouble in broad sense, not just how to fight of a robber or rapist.

> Then I suppose you also must know how difficult it is to defend against knives

Oh, yes, I wholeheartedly agree, that it is enormously difficult to defend oneself against a skilled knife fighter. but it is also an illusion that knife is dangerous in anyone's hands. For a novice any object in hand is a burden rather than weapon. I can go lengths into the subject, but more important is the point that trained individuals more often than not would not have been chosen as victims.

> Things don't fall together in real life like they do in the dojo's.

Most common dojos should be avoided at all cost.

The YCJA is some more legacy from that rotten bast*rd PET.

"How many parents actually think about possibility of their kids having to defend themselves and the loved ones so seriously,"

O/T
I do, and every parent of girls should do the same. My 14yr daughter is a boxer and my 10yr old is a provincial wrestling champ. That being said, I think you're being a little naive (Aaron) suggesting that self-defense would have protected this girl from these two teens. Another common fallacy is that taking "Karate" will make your kid tough. Wrong! Kids and people that like to fight and who are good at it do it, they fight. Although learning self defense assists in confidence and crisis management, unless you’re street savvy and experienced you can get yourself into big trouble overestimating your skills. Most of that stuff is for confidence boosting and personal development.JMO

IMO the mistake made by the victim(s) was splitting-up. The boyfriends cowardice is appalling but that's a separate issue.

"Oh, yes, I wholeheartedly agree, that it is enormously difficult to defend oneself against a skilled knife fighter. but it is also an illusion that knife is dangerous in anyone's hands."

I know where you're coming from. We aren't talking "anyone" here though. We are talking about bad guys who have no doubt been in lots of fights in their lives and they have knives. You have to get into their strike zone and that's dangerous. Any weapons instructor I know will tell you to run and not fight. If you're cornered it's going to be bad. You are going to get cut and your body will go into shock. You have to win the fight quickly. Then call the ambulance.

Very few people can survive a close quarter fight when the other guy has a knife. Most people don't want to spend their whole life getting that good. They hope maybe the police and courts keep the crazy people off the streets.

wrt the thread.

I have no doubt that if the brother or father of the victim (her) get their hands on these punks they'll get more than 16 months.

Indiana Homez said. "I have no doubt that if the brother or father of the victim (her) get their hands on these punks they'll get more than 16 months."

I think the Police should take the punks to the victims house and handcuff them to the radiator in the basement and then leave. Then we'll have justice.

The vigilantes will come when the law won't! Who was it that said . . . "all it takes for evil to prosper is for a good man to do nothing!? Good men . . . DO THE JOB!

Aaron said "Most common dojos should be avoided at all cost."

Agreed. You'd be better off sending your kids to dance class than the local karate school. They are more interested in handing out belts and trophies than teaching your kid how to fight. I've seen a few black belts get pounded badly in parking lots by mediocre street fighters.

The "victim impact statement" is of a piece with the kind of flannel we see with "hate crimes legislation". We should not, for example, treat the theft of a car from a person with 4 BMWs and restored Studebaker pick-up any differently from the theft of the car of a single-mother who has to drive 50 miles to get to her minimum-wage job. The law, of course, may well consider many mitigating factors when sentencing a criminal, but the random impact of the crime on any given victim shouldn't be one of them.

Bottom line my friends, we live in a society where we are forbidden to defend ourselves, and the government will not defend us either. Particularly when the perpetrators are ethnic minorities. That is the facts, jack.

Question: Which political party presided over the creation of this farce? Who passed the Young Offenders Act? The gun registry? Who decided to set the bar for self defense so high an arch angel out of heaven couldn't measure up?

So if you don't like the way it is, don't vote for the imbeciles who made it this way in the next election.

/.rant

By the way. For all you armchair quarterbacks, the correct and intelligent thing to do when faced with multiple armed assailants, when you are unarmed, is to RUN. Run like a f-ing deer and GET HELP. Or you are going to -die-. Which will not help your girlfriend one little bit.

Phantom said "Run like a f-ing deer and GET HELP".

It is the smart thing to do. Did the guy actually run and get help or did he just run? You call 911 with an armed robbery/kidnapping in progress and they respond in minutes. I think the boyfriend just wandered home.

it's really disgusting to think that it is true in Canuckistan that if you are skilled or lucky enough to turn the tables on an assailant, YOU are then put in the hot seat and face very expensive legal bills and still do time.

another accident of birth I guess; born in wussy Canadia where it is sternly frowned upon when one 'takes the law in their own hands' of some such jingoistic excuse to perpetuate this abomination of a legal system. I don't call it justice system, it is legal but sure as horse manuvre aint just.

you people know Im not talking stereotype alarmist either.

one more reason I will NOT vote lieberal.

One thing you could do is go to a public computer where you don't have to sign in. Open a new e-mail on yahoo or msn, use a pen name, and e-mail the name to as many people as possible. Close the account before you go home, and whatever you do, don't open your own e-mails while you're there.

Aaron:

Job well done blaming the victim of these rapists. Would you happen to be a member of either ones defense team? Wouldn't it be the parents of these gang members that failed this girl, and not her parents?

I've been fighting, and training fighters for over 30 years. Most martial arts are sports. They have rules, and procedures. People who devote that much time to a disciplined sport have little time to learn how to street fight. In fact, street fighting is strongly discouraged. It teaches bad habits, and can lead to injuries, or legal problems.

That said, I do know how to hit people. It helps to know that much, at least. Now, I carry weapons. Everywhere I go. It embarrasses my kids, to no end. Knives can cause terrible injuries, in the blink of an eye. An old friend of mine grabbed one by the blade, and ripped it from a guy's hand. His hand was horribly slashed, but he lived to tell about it. I carry something a bit nastier.

I understand the boy running for help. It really was the best thing to do. If he'd gotten stabbed, the bad guys might have killed the girl, for good measure. I ran for help once, when a friend was getting kicked. I was 13, and the guys were all in their 20s. It was the right thing to do, even if I felt like a coward.

The no-identification policy has been a travesty since the Young Offenders Act was passed in 1983 or 1984. Not only should the provision be repealed, but this should be backdated, so all perpetrators since 1983 can be identified. What can't be done, of course, is to impose tougher penalties retroactively, which is an affront to justice even if they were deserved (the Supreme Court, given its BC smoking bill ruling in 2005, may disagree; however, I've already called that one the most evil decision the Court has ever handed down).

The no-identification rule is a clear violation of the freedom of expression provisions in the Charter of Rights. It's one thing to maintain secrecy regarding victims of sexual assault, but quite another to do it for criminals.

Another thing: the no-identification policy itself is surely Marxist in origin. What else could explain the ludicrous situation that arises when a "young offender" can be identified (on a judge's order) for a few days while the cops are trying to apprehend him? Once they get him, it's back to being illegal to identify him -- even though everybody already knows now. Are we supposed to bash ourselves in the head with hammers so we forget?

Good on you, Kate. If you get the name of that little rat-bastard I for one will donate gladly to your defence fund.

Enough of this horse-shit (on my! did I actually spell that out?)

The time has come that we need to hold these creeps accountable for the horrible shi_ they do!

Go for it girl!! Publish the name if your spirit tells you you must!!

I'm sure somewhere there's a facebook group openly discussing this case and the names of those involved.

To think rapists in this Country used to be whipped once a month for this heinous crime. Now its become a pastime for the psycho's & a religious duty by Islamists.
This is what happens when the criminal rehabilitation becomes more important than the public safety.
It also shows how slowly Women are being DE-humanised with loss of respect.
I wonder sometimes if its just not Islamofacists eroding female rights. but certain women hating elements that are female. Themselves trying to keep younger Women down?
As for youth crime its a joke. The rancid Indian affairs have not helped by making Natives into Children. As well in our society parents have had their parental rights stolen or let go for their own ease. Moral relativism isn't a help either
JMO

How my sentiment could be stretched into blaming the victim is beyond me.

There is difference between saying 'it's her fault, she should have learned boxing' and 'parents should be more involved in their children's progress'.

Re traditional karate: what other word could I use? karate is around, one can start at a local club and move up more serious stuff. as well as aikido. Anyway, the key words are 'self defense' and there is no point in arguing 'boxing vs karate' or 'judo vs aikido' here - that's technicalities. Kids must learn how to defend themselves, period. Blaming imperfections of particular style is just an admission of failure to pursue it rigorously enough.

Kate, it's the boyfriend's name that should get published. He left that girl in the hands of those freaks rather than stand up to them. He deserted her. Publish his name with a big caption "Sniveling Coward gives girlfriend to Rapists'.

INP- I think it's your name that should get published, tough guy. I'll bet $10,000.00 that you, Aaron, and almost anybody else who comments, would run from 2 native gangsters with knives. Running for help saved both their lives, and got convictions for the attackers. Macho asshole.

INP - Think back a couple of years ago in Regina a good samaritan named Moser came to the aid of someone being beaten outside a club. He ended up with a knife in his gut and is now 6 feet under.

dp is absolutely correct that the kid did the right thing. If you thought about this thing for longer than two seconds you'd remember that the assault stopped when the little bastards saw the cops coming. Without the kid alerting them that this assault was going on who knows what the end result would have been. He just might have saved the girl's life by leaving the scene and getting the cops.

No......maybe you want to reconsider your previous post.

Here's what you do...

There is a theory called the six degrees of separation, where anyone on Earth is separated by only six other individuals from anyone else.

To find out who these little punks are, merely ask anyone and everyone you know if they know, and get them to do the same with whom they know, and to get back to you.

It's a smaller world than you think!

The boyfriend did the right thing, IF he ran directly for help.

I agree with Indiana Homez assessment that martial arts is a confidence builder and crisis management tool – Which goes a long way on today’s dangerous streets. I practiced TKD for 5 years, there’s always someone bigger, faster and stronger than any fighter at any given time. Indeed the physical skills to win a fight have nothing over a mind prepared to fight.

Self defense is a great tool for kids to learn, in fact any physical sport that demands their body’s top fitness levels will rule over lazy street thugs smoking cigarettes and drinking beer.

The idea of the boyfriend staying to fight is a noble thought; in fact if he was wise enough to assess the situation as a losing one, he did what any great general would have done if grievously outnumbered with a means of retreat. Lose the battle with minimal losses and then regroup to win the overall war.