The distruction of the US economy continues.
There is nothing Obama can't do to distroy yhe country.

A lot of people still don't understand that businesses don't pay taxes, they collect taxes for the government. That 31 billion tax will be added to the price of the product, so the consumer will pay every nickel.

Discourage overproduction?

He wants to drive up the price of available stocks and reap more taxes.

When do the impeachment hearings begin..?

Wow, take that picture that was painted by Fred yesterday, about England and he big black, and remake it for Amerika.
It's not even joke worthy any more.

A whole strange new mindset is emerging in US administration.

Discouraging self sufficiency in their own domestic energy supply.

One would almost think that the Obama Democrats are intent on destabilizing the USA.

But why?

A Cult, pure and simple.

So there pals in China and Iran have an easier time invading when the time is right.

How much more?

Show me the beef! I want one example of green energy production that will replace oil and gas, it must be nuclear since there is nothing else even on the horizon,either that or its just endless prattle, talk IS cheap.

Why?

If you want to remake a nation, you must destroy it first.

Obama is evil and he lies. That what you need to know.

At present rate, Canada will soon be richer and more powerful than the USA .... Obama is making us look smart. Bwahahahaha

Because it's anarchy they want Joe. Check out Cloward-Piven. Obama and his Czars want to destroy the White-run Capitalist.
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This is just BO's way of saying after buying up all the bad paper from his sponsors in the Wall Street investment banking cartel and subsidizing the auto and health insurance industry, there is no expropriated money left - until the next fed bail out lets him print more.

You gotta get up with the lexicon of Obomanomics narrative

[ Today, Russians laugh at our peak oil theories as they explore, and find, the bounty in the bowels of the Earth. Russia’s reserves have been climbing steadily — according to BP’s annual survey, they stood at 45 billion barrels in 2001, 69 billion barrels in 2004, and 80 billion barrels of late, making Russia an oil superpower that this year produced more oil than Saudi Arabia.} Solomon

Ratt; you might not be far off, but how can he ignore what happened in old Rhodesia? They certainly got rid of those damned white capitalists!

Didn't the Obamessiah provide aid to a Brazilian oil company a little while ago to aid them in offshore drilling. Strangely enough, I believe that Boss Soros was heavily invested in said company. Imagine that!

...the nation puts too much emphasis on oil and gas at the expense of other industries.

The other industries are dependent on cheap oil and gas.
What is it about the word "industry" that OweBama and his Democrat syncophants don't understand?

"syncophant" should be sycophant @ 11:27

This begs the question why is anybody still investing in the US markets.

Something to think about
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/1439-WARNING-Deflationary-Collapse-Dead-Ahead.html

Socialists love to take other people's money so they can enrich themselves.

Bye Bye America, it was nice while it lasted. You are now letting emotion, not facts, run your country. And that's a recipe for disaster.

The Obama Administration is populated by Environmental Morons that have bought off on the Renewable Energy Pipe Dream.

To the US Energy Secretary Chu

Please create a supply chain to build solar panels and windmills that uses no fossil fuels, distillates or energy derived from fossil fuels, then show me the cost projections for that supply chain. I will be fair and allow the first power generation site, a solar or wind farm in the 64Mw range as a free starting point.

I want the buildings, equipment, transport and I mean everything to be fossil fuel free. If you can prove to me that it can be done then I will change my position. If not we need fossil fuels so Energy Independence is a political goal, it is fantasy like saying this will never happen again when talking about the economy.

If you cannot provide this renewables only model then admit that your policies actually impede any progress in your stated goals.

Example: No NEW Coal Power Stations!!!

New Coal Stations could be multi-fuel sourced (Bio/Coal/NatGas) have much better particulate filtering (less real pollution) and are 20-60% more efficient (either creating more power or using less fuel depending on the age of the plant they are replacing) and could replace the aging installations and increase electrical energy supply lowering costs for consumers and business (and making businesses more competitive because energy input costs could be lowered).

Incremental progress is not a bad thing. Stop trying to leap frog over technology that can help today in order to promote technology we left behind in the 18th Century (wind) and one that has not yielded progress in 50 years (solar).

The transformation away from fossil fuels will take decades, perhaps a century to happen and in that time a new technology will be discovered (something totally new) that really will supplant all current energy sources. That is real progress, promoting things that do not work is regressive, not progressive and a waste of resources and capital.

Also the subsidizes that Energy Companies get are to promote domestic jobs and industries, they are not at the well head, they are for Investment in the National Energy Infrastructure. The other is the overseas profits, which is a much bigger issue than energy.

Time to grow up and work on a real solution rather than chase a clean energy butterfly because even if it looks pretty it sure flies erratically and you will be changing direction every few steps.

Increasing US Dependence On Foreign Oil

Soon enough they'll become dependant on foreign nukes.

Why the bashing? They will buy it from us.

Seems that Obama is a Narcissist, so does it not follow that he may take a page out of Bill Clinton's book? - forget the socialist thing and go with a it's the economy stupid thing?

Mind you Billy had to deal with the GOP congress then and it is looking more and more now like Obama is loosing support of even the Dems in congress.

Soooooo, if the O switches gears and turns the corner, could the US economy also turn the corner? After all, it is the same country, same people, same industries(except GM Chryc), same Yankee know-how that was humming along just a year ago. (Before the eco-gore-soros-kult appeared on the horizon)

Why the bashing? They will buy it from us.

Sure they will, after they've bought every drop that Venezuela can spare first.
But it won't be enough.

America, like Europe, can't afford disruption of the supply from the Gulf states, especially Iran which controls the Straight of Hormuz.
http://ca.encarta.msn.com/map_701516791/strait_of_hormuz.html

The important thing to remember is that America can't fight any wars if their strategic reserves are depleted.

Emergency sales to Israel
According to the 1975 Second Sinai withdrawal document signed by the United States and Israel, in an emergency the U.S. is obligated to make oil available for sale to Israel for up to 5 years.

Ah yes Arron D.; the plight of the White Farmers of Zimbabwe. The Black Run Government siezed the White Farmers land and gave it to the Blacks. Within 1 year Zimbabwe was asking for Food Aid from the U.N.

Kind of like what Obama wants; by legislating the redistribution of white wealth to the blacks in America thru ObamaCare, AGW, Cap&Trade, Capital Gains Tax and now Obama wants to Tax the Insurance Companies an additional 35% and cut Big Oil subsidies all of which will trickle down to the middle-class tax payer who is dominately white.

Obama was not raised in America, therefore; his roots are not here. He was continously exposed to the foriegn view, especially the Middle Eastern Muslim and down-trodden African view of the United States which formed his liberal socialistic opinions at an early age.

You know, kindof like; Western Capitalism is bad, Mercedes Benz is good.

I mean Good Lord, look at Obama's Cabinet Picks, besides being Tax Cheats, he has nothing but Radical Black Panthers and Gutless White Liberals. That's a Hell of a mix to try and save the American economy, or for that matter the America I grew up in.

So, come 2010 we will try and take our country back legally, if we fail then we will try and take it back thru a Revolution. But, either way, a storm is coming.

And, for you Obabots that don't like to hear that kind of talk then turn me into flag@whitehouse.gov.
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Am I understanding this correctly? The problem is too many subsidies for oil and gas so the solution is to tax oil and gas?

Why not just cut off the subsidies?

Aaron said:

"Why the bashing? They will buy it from us."

Actually they won't. Apparently the tar-sands are too dirty for Obama's liking.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=610810

The chief economist in the Obama administration's Treasury Department testified before a Senate panel that current subsidies "lead to overinvestment" in the oil and gas industry.

I don't know anything about "oil and gas subsidies" in the US. Does anyone know what he's talking about? Considering the profits the oil industry makes, I don't see any need for subsidies. But if the subsidies are the problem, why isn't the chief economist talking about eliminating them, rather than imposing new taxes?

I'd have so much more respect for Bambam's team if they actually addressed issues head-on instead of always talking in circles or indirectly.

They are buying our oil and will keep buying. Enough of childish blathering.

If the US is overproducing oil and gas, why do they import both?

Ratt,
I only take issue with one part of your premise. The fact is we have had Communist LIZARDS in America for the last 60 years. There are more, than an order of magnitude, of white Lizards than black Lizards. The White Lizards in Congress are hiding behind Obama & his black Lizards. The black Lizards have the race Card, but it is the white lizards that are playing that card.

A storm is coming for SOROS & the White EU/UN Communist goals

Can't really complain, more drilling rigs and jobs for us. If the US does not want dirty oil sands oil, I am sure at least 10 other countries will be lining up.

The North Sea is just about pumped out isn't it? Even a guy like Brown has to think about energy security sometimes, doesn't he?

Let's see now. We're going to build an electric car. (IE: Chevy Volt--Obama welfare$$$,) and we're going to plug our little electric car into the wall outlet, that's plugged into the powerline that's plugged into a coal fired generater.

Keep in mind that in the USA, thousands of small towns still use Diesel oil and natural gas to power piston type engines to generate electricty.

So the little electric car will run on coal, natural gas and diesel.

Why don't the Americans let the Chinese build them a smaller car, 4 cyl fuel efficient engine that uses regualar pump gas, gets 60 MPG, and costs $12,000 at Wal-Mart? Problem solved!

Ps: By now you know where they can plug the cord that leads to the electric car?

Kathryn, What a revelation, I bet they never thought of that. Too busy thinking of how they are going to cover their butts on this Acorn thing.

bambam is partially right. The US does not need 'dirty oil' as long as they do not have any National production. You do not need a lot if you produce very little. However if they plan to actually pay for all the goodies they have to increase production to do so. Taxation alone won't do it. As California has learned it is a whole lot easier to get into trouble than to get out of it. What they will do is the same as Canada does with enriching uranium in the US. A certain portion of production is Canadian and cannot be used for nuclear weapons. If 60% is Canadian only 40% can build bombs. This way they only get our 'clean oil'.

Racists!!!, all of ya's

Illiquid, everything you suggest is true with one small but important quibble. Burning a variety of different fuels in the same generator is very difficult if you are optimizing the combustion conditions. The only dual fuel burner for electricity production thus far has been oil/gas.

In the case of biomass for example, the best of which would be wood chips, by contrast with coal it contains far too much water and produces far too many obnoxious toxic and corrosive pollutants, such as ketones and aldehydes and various benzene derivatives. So, you have to make rather extensive modifications to any coal-fired plant to burn this rubbish. Because of all these factors, particularly the water content, you can usually expect lower combustion temperatures and thus a lot less output. Indeed, coal fired plants are configured for specific varieties of coals for optimum performance; you can't just dump any old lignite into them. And you have to protect them from the particular forms of corrosion depending upon what fuel is being burnt.

A storm is coming for SOROS & the White EU/UN Communist goals

Posted by: Slap Shot at September 16, 2009 12:55 PM

On that SS, I can agree.
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For a short take on big oil subsidies try this;
http://priceofoil.org/thepriceofoil/clean-energy/

Exxon/Mobil/Texaco/Chevron have been receiving Gov't Subsidies in the Billions for years now. It's a crazy ponzi scheme between our Politicians and Big Oil. The Gov't collects about 1/3 of the price of a gallon of gas on Taxes then turns right around every yearly congressional session and legislates Big Oil Billions in subsidies and corporate tax breaks. I don't get it, but I do get this. If the subsidies are cutoff then that means Billions in loses for Big Oil which even the dullest clucker in the pond would surmise that prices at the pump are gona go up. But, then again, we could use that as a bargaining chip if we took the subsidies and invested them in alternative fuel, such as nuclear and solar (we can leave the corn for the tomales), but whether we did or not it would send a message to Big Oil.

Further more; the American economy, and for that matter, the American way of life cannot survive at $4.25 a gallon and the Democrats know that now, and by Jehova's Witness that is scary.
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Now, I just heard that Sen. Baucus (D) has stated that they will need about $900 Billion to pull off ObamaCare for the 46 Million un-insured. Good God Almighty, that's $19,565 per person and that's $58,695 for a family of 3 per year, and that don't include Dental or Vision. My Private Plan is around $5,500 per year for 3 and that includes Dental and Vision.

I stand by my 1st conviction; Obama and his Democrats couldn't run a Ho House in Nevada with a Drive-thru Liquor Store and turn a profit.

If Obama and his Democrats can blantantly take over the Private Health Insurance Providers in America then who is next. Wal-Mart ? They are none Union and a prime target. Or, how about Big Booze, Big Tobacco, Coke, Pepsi, are they making a profit ? Auto and House Insurance is high you gona tax them too ? But what you won't find them doing is taxing Big Oil, and dammit, here we are again back where we started.

Socialism is wrong, do you hear me you young Obabots, I don't care what color it comes in.
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There is oil to be found in the US but is it cost effective to recover is the issue. Also, the US does need to move to the new energy future now before asia does it first then they will be screwed for sure. On the other hand Obama has been giving exploration money to other countries like Brazil which seems to indicate his preference for a global solution to the problem rather than American. (real conservative)

This constant whining on both sides of political and social spectrum is tiresome.

Nothing has managed to kill the human race as yet. At least not the natural causes. We lived just fine even before industrial revolution, we lived juse as fine thru it. Heck, oil was unknown 150 years ago and heck, we lived just fine. Think big, not small. You can't take your riches with you into the afterlife - why the hell do you need billions of dollars, when 1 million buy plenty enough of everything?

The more I live, the firmer I believe that all I see is greed and cowardice, cowardice and greed. The tall and bold have been slaughtered by now.

Wild ass guess here, but I swear Soros and Buffet want to go long on oil and this administration is their enabler.
It's mid September.
The northern half of this planet is about to freeze up.
Killing US oil R&D incentives at this time is a market ploy in my opinion.
Bonus round for all the subsides for alt energey that don't work.
The Copenhagen conference on Kyoto II is coming up.
Cap and Trade legislation may crash and burn, leaving the Chicago carbon exchange still a no go.
And Buffet still has all his wind turbines in storage from his failed Texas endeavor.

I think this is a typical shell game of H Obama to take the heat of health reform and refocus on C%T. He's going to loose both but if some of his backers make some coin, all is well.

As usual, I will defer to G Tulk of Phillip Shaw to peel this onion. (not being sarcastic)

I think there's alot of people missing the boat since few people really keep a close eye on things like natural gas. Current existing storage nat gas capacity in the U.S. is ~3880 billion cubic feet. The department of energy expects us to reach that level near the start of November when the injection season peaks.

Currently the price of natural gas (and for the last two months) has been below the well head price...meaning that natural gas companies are losing money (unless they're storing it for sale later in the year...however, carriage and storage fees during times of limited storage are going to hurt that).

I would suggest then that there is _some_ incentive that keeps new rigs starting up. In the past 7 weeks we've had more and more rigs running while the price of natural gas has steadily fallen for 8 months now. Horizontal drilling has allowed the number of rigs to drop off while still producing the same amount of natural gas.

So there IS over production of natural gas.

As to oil...record profits and obscene profits abound in that industry. In fact, the most profitable corporations on the planet are oil companies...so why on earth would tax payers be giving them _handouts_? I'm not anti-corpratist...I'm practical enough to understand that corporate taxes pay for a large part of government, and that stimulating business is good, but out of any industry, why are we subsidizing the oil industry?

That pretty much sums it up from my perspective...natural gas is reaching the point where most producers will be flaring their natural gas at the wellhead by the 1st of november, and oil producers have some of the most outrageous profits ever seen. Can someone tell me why we need to subsidize them?

I think there's alot of people missing the boat since few people really keep a close eye on things like natural gas. Current existing storage nat gas capacity in the U.S. is ~3880 billion cubic feet. The department of energy expects us to reach that level near the start of November when the injection season peaks.

Currently the price of natural gas (and for the last two months) has been below the well head price...meaning that natural gas companies are losing money (unless they're storing it for sale later in the year...however, carriage and storage fees during times of limited storage are going to hurt that).

I would suggest then that there is _some_ incentive that keeps new rigs starting up. In the past 7 weeks we've had more and more rigs running while the price of natural gas has steadily fallen for 8 months now. Horizontal drilling has allowed the number of rigs to drop off while still producing the same amount of natural gas.

So there IS over production of natural gas.

As to oil...record profits and obscene profits abound in that industry. In fact, the most profitable corporations on the planet are oil companies...so why on earth would tax payers be giving them _handouts_? I'm not anti-corpratist...I'm practical enough to understand that corporate taxes pay for a large part of government, and that stimulating business is good, but out of any industry, why are we subsidizing the oil industry?

That pretty much sums it up from my perspective...natural gas is reaching the point where most producers will be flaring their natural gas at the wellhead by the 1st of november, and oil producers have some of the most outrageous profits ever seen. Can someone tell me why we need to subsidize them?

Should be;
G Tulk OR Phillip Shaw to peel this onion

Posted by: bar_jebus:

Could you provide us with a link to the how's and wherefore's that oil & gas companies are subsidized by government? What is subsidized in their business? Do you have any numbers to bandy around?

Because right now I am positive that you don't know squat about the subject, but you'll come onto this thread bug-eyed and slack-jawed with moronic, unsubstantiated drivel to appear informed on the subject.

I also suppose that you are also another SFB who think that political parties get elected to "lose" seats and not form majorities, too.

Businesses are in business to "lose" money or make a profit in your POV?

US $5/gallon gas is not too far away, with tin-hat policies like this. Hope it happens, as it will be Obummers fault, as it is his hand picked Czars that force this policy upon Americans.

Corporations don't pay the taxes. they pass it on to the consumer, a fact that is lost on LibLefty morons, who have this pre-conceived notion of teaching those mean old nasty multi-national corporations a thing or two.

But it's Joe Citizen that really pays.....

So are they saying that government interference in the economy is a bad thing?

Mystery Meat wrote: "A lot of people still don't understand that businesses don't pay taxes, they collect taxes for the government."

To which I would append:

"A lot of people still don't understand that government employees, government-funded organizations and politicians don't pay taxes, they take them from the private sector."

Ratt:

Thanks for the link - won't have time to follow up tonight, but will do tomorrow.

Bar-jebus:

As I posted earlier, can't see why oil companies need subsidies - they make plenty of money. Like you, I'm not anti-business, but why does the company making the largest profits on Earth (XOM) need government subsidies?

But for natural gas - prices have spiked from the recent lows. Sure, they're well below the price reached at the crazy peak last year, but they are getting better. Still, you'd think coal fired plants might be considering conversion at these rates. With the new shale deposits becoming economical, we're going to be flush with gas for years to come.

why does the company making the largest profits on Earth (XOM) need government subsidies?
~KevinB

You do know, KevinB, that energy companies pay royalties and taxes on their gross at the well head and not on their net like every other private business right?

Oh, and AFAIK the largest profits are made by manufacturers of military products, as an industry, second largest industry is the tourist industry if you're talking about whole industries instead of individual companies which have an international scope.

Some energy companies actually fail and go out of business you know.

The largest domestic industry by far that receives tax dollars, of course, is the health care industry.