August 27, 2009

Just Water Under The Bridge

Jules Crittenden;

Meanwhile, listening to ”Reflections on Sen. Kennedy … Lion of the Senate” on the Diane Rehm Show on the drive home last night, I was deeply moved to hear Newsweek’s Ed Klein tell guest host Katty Kay about Kennedy’s love of humor. How the late senator loved to hear and tell Chappaquiddick jokes, and was always eager to know if anyone had heard any new ones. Not that Kennedy lacked remorse, Klein quickly added, seeming to intuit that my jaw and perhaps those of other listeners had just hit the floorboards. I gather it was a self-deprecating manuever on Kennedy’s part, exercised with the famous Kennedy charm, though it sounds like one of those “I guess you had to have been there” things.

Posted by Kate at August 27, 2009 11:45 AM

OK, NOW I can say stuff!

That is just awful, and for someone to say that stuff out loud and not realize how appalling that is, disgusts me.

Posted by: Erik Larsen at August 27, 2009 12:00 PM

Why am I not surprised?
Disgusted, yes, but not surprised.

Posted by: bluetech at August 27, 2009 12:10 PM

Is that joke story true?

Posted by: dymphna at August 27, 2009 12:15 PM

Jaw dropping? What can you expect from somebody who let a young woman drown in order to save his own skin and reputation? I bet Charlie Manson has some great Sharon Tate and dead baby jokes. I wonder if the Kennedy lovers would look as kindly on them. EMK may have lived in Camelot but, in reality, he was among the lowest of lowlifes.

Posted by: ducktrapper at August 27, 2009 12:17 PM

How the late senator loved to hear and tell Chappaquiddick jokes, and was always eager to know if anyone had heard any new ones.

Lower than a snake's rectum.

Posted by: Oz at August 27, 2009 12:23 PM

As my father said yesterday, the only good thing you can say about Kennedy is that he was consistent.

Posted by: TJ at August 27, 2009 12:27 PM

Actually ducktrapper, Mary Jo didn't drown. She suffocated when the air bubble trapped in the car was exhausted. Chances are she would have lived if Ted went for help right away.

Posted by: Largs at August 27, 2009 12:38 PM

WE have two (2) cult freaks dead...we just gotta believe they will stay dead! Shame on the folks of MA for this stain on humanity...

Posted by: Slap shot at August 27, 2009 12:41 PM

If it’s really true it has to be the most head shakingly stupidest thing I’ve heard in say the last 6 months.

Posted by: Agent Smith at August 27, 2009 1:09 PM

Thanks Lars. Actually, I knew that but, yes, let's keep the facts straight. My major thesis still stands, however.

Posted by: ducktrapper at August 27, 2009 1:11 PM

Like I said on the other "Ding dong Kennedy's Dead" thread, when an enemy dies, be happy.

He was The Enemy, and now he's a dead guy. I feel moved to dance in the street and throw candy, but I live in the boondocks and there's no kids around to catch it.

Shut off the TV. Don't read the paper.

Its BAD FOR YOU to be lied to 24/7/365, y'know. Watching this stuff is like voluntarily eating dog poo. Stop doing it and the nausea will soon pass.

Posted by: The Phantom at August 27, 2009 1:17 PM

The left have no moral code left, allowing that woman to die as he toodled off home to sleep off the drink is funny? Not to me, and frankly the left and MSM sicken me with their adoration of that drunken killer. Is there nothing the leftwingnut elites can do that will repulse their supporters? No, it sickens me to say NO.

She didn't die right away and could possibly of been saved if he had of considered her life worth more than a bag of trash.


Posted by: Rose at August 27, 2009 1:47 PM

But remember everyone: it is Kate and I who are the awful "haters".

PS, Kennedy's dog was named Splash. That is also true. Having a black sense of humor is admirable, but it is not supposed to be directed at one of your own _victims_.

Thank God he is finally dead.

Posted by: Kathy Shaidle at August 27, 2009 3:11 PM

churchill bugged his father leading up to the big one....and presented the evidence of his treachery to roosevelt who summarily fired his ass after summoning him with one of the funnier telegrams i've ever read...

being a scumbag seems to be a family tradition....altho i did like jack....still do...and as gore vidal assures us jackie was the truly DEEP machiavellian...

Posted by: john begley at August 27, 2009 3:55 PM

And that is why the whole lot of them still kicking should be wiped out as the commie,socialist,lefturd viruses they are,just like you would the flu.

Posted by: Justthinkin at August 27, 2009 3:55 PM

If JF Kenndy was killed in USA and nobody find the who is behind it

trust me
nobody can find who was real person behind sep 11 conspriary as well

the danger of this law is corruption and destroy human dignity and

freedom of public

if person was choose is elcted by majority the rest must be united and let this period finihs and not kill or destroy and defame them
this is wrong method of slandering in west

they hate first then try to know each otehr

when you hate some one how you can help themor direct them or

this hate and anger seen in west is deadly

blame it all hate in WEST To their mother grow their childer wihtout love and support
and they are selfish think of themselve than their how to grow their children to be act human

Posted by: new at August 27, 2009 4:29 PM


Churchill you said him

I do not like
name of " Mr. Churchill"
his face was ugly and
he was mentally danger angry MAN
he was not honest
he was scary cat to send other to die for him
and has two evil faces
because him the anger of world never cool down
I do not trust peopel who fight for so long and not find easier way to settle and prevent matter

Nobody can trust Churchill direction
for rest of their life

Posted by: new at August 27, 2009 4:40 PM

"new", how much of a Canada Council grant did you get to write those wacky poems? Far out!

Posted by: Dudley Morris at August 27, 2009 4:59 PM

I always skim new posts,
but today I thought
well why not

and this caught my eye
"he was scary cat to send other to die for him"
and then I knew
it must be true
that is why
suicide bombers
do it for others
instead of sending soldiers
to those places
to kill civilians
to spare their leaders faces.

Posted by: old at August 27, 2009 5:07 PM

A friend of mine always calls it "Blood under the bridge". That's usually more like it!

Posted by: lookout at August 27, 2009 5:14 PM

I've taken to thinking of new as a sort of post-modern beat poet with an e.e. cummings vibe. I find it helps a lot.

Posted by: Black Mamba at August 27, 2009 5:19 PM

**I do not like
name of " Mr. Churchill"
his face was ugly and
he was mentally danger angry MAN
he was not honest
he was scary cat to send other to die for him **
You got your turban too tight and have incured my ire.
Churchill was no chicken----he lead the charge at Omderman----the last cavalry charge in History (BeerSheba was light horse--mounted infantry good show tho-) and put you ilk to the sword...
It seems a century later we will have to repeat that treatment.
"History will be kind to me---because I intend to write it." Winston Spenser Churchill

Posted by: sasquatch at August 27, 2009 5:21 PM

Doesn't anyone remember the time Teddy was caught by a photog having sex with a-much-younger-woman not-his-wife on the back deck of his boat as it floated off the coast.

Teddy was leading the charge in the senate to prevent ANY oil drilling off shore.

The embarassing pictures caused much merriment amongst other congresscritters and acolytes - leading one, while in a packed elevator full of aides and lobbyists and such to wittyly enquire: "So Ted, I understand your position on offshore drilling has changed."

Posted by: Fred2 at August 27, 2009 5:39 PM

To which Ted's witty response was presumably "hey, at least that one made it back to dry land!"

I guess you had to have been there.

Posted by: Black Mamba at August 27, 2009 5:50 PM

Canadian media have been gushing over Teddy, apparently their highest accolade is this: "he was almost Canadian."

I see what they mean, Trudeau was a better driver.

Posted by: Peter O'Donnell at August 27, 2009 6:09 PM

Kennedy certainly didn't have a great love of swimming - nor his date - that night.

Posted by: RW at August 27, 2009 8:37 PM

The Cancer Industry claims another "victim" in its "40-year war on cancer".

"Kennedy Case Shows Progress and Obstacles in Cancer Fight
New York Times - Gina Kolata, Lawrence K. Altman - ‎1 hour ago‎
Like almost no one else, Senator Edward Kennedy embodied the frustrations of the nation's 40-year war on cancer. Articles in this series examine the struggle to defeat cancer."

Posted by: maz2 at August 27, 2009 8:41 PM

And I've come to think of new as a human hemorrhoid. Ya never know when it will pop out.

Posted by: The Glengarrian at August 27, 2009 9:03 PM

When PET croaked some of the most stoic men I know walking the face of this earth had tears in their eyes. Yes tears. They had managed to live long enough to see the SOB dead.

Posted by: The Glengarrian at August 27, 2009 9:15 PM

Churchill took part in the charge at Omdurman, describing it as follows, " ..I had the good luck to ride through the charge unhurt-indeed untouched-which very few can say. I used a pistol and did not draw my sword. I had no difficulties and felt confident that I should get through if, neither my horse fell nor I was shot-for I must tell you the ground was execrable and there was the wildest shooting in all directions. Neither of these things happened and such of the enemy as approached me or attacked me I shot-three I think I killed. It is difficult to miss at under a foot's range. The whole thing was a matter of seconds-for as you may have gathered-we burst through their line and formed up the other side. The loss was most severe-1 officer and 21 men killed-9 officers and 66 men wounded and 119 horses out of only 320."

In addition, when dismissed as a Minister in 1915, he rejoined the British Army and became a battalion commander on the front line, spending a lot of time in the forward trenches. Both then and in later life, he may have sent men to their deaths, but he certainly understood the implications of his decisions and had not been reluctant to put his life on the line.

Posted by: KimW at August 27, 2009 10:25 PM

Churchill needed a firm leash...
For D-day it took no less than the KING, at Ike's personal request, to ORDER Churchill NOT to be aboard one of the ships offshore.
Ike relented on D-day +1or2 to allow Churchill to fly in and BRIEFLY visit the bridgehead.
He arrived just after the first RAF squadron had relocated to an improvised field in the beach-head......he arrived on a liberated (captured) Fiesler Storch...
BTW the pistol he used at Omderman was a 1896 Mauser broomhandle, with the powerful .30 Mauser cartridge....
"the pistol was the greatest thing....I fired it 10 times going through and then reloaded in the face of the enemy." (from a letter to his mother[Jenny Jerome]...who had gifted him the pistol).
With a mummy like that and Marborough for an ancestor.......

Posted by: sasquatch at August 27, 2009 11:01 PM

That's Marlborough......the first Duke of Marlborough.....whose shining victory at Blenheim ended Louis XIV's ambitions with the War of the Spanish Succession....
Not to be confused with American cigarettes.......

Posted by: sasquatch at August 27, 2009 11:06 PM

I seem to recall a few people on here yesterday taking issue with those who had nasty, but true, things to say about Kennedy. Wonder where they all are today.

Posted by: bob c at August 27, 2009 11:53 PM

For all you who thought the BBC is a bastion of raving left-wing loonies - think again.

Tributes from Britain to Edward Kennedy:

The top comment is as follows:

"Let's not get too carried away.

His family were anti-British, starting with the old man, Joseph. Edward Kennedy was supporter of the IRA. The Chappaquidick question was never fully answered. He was not an icon but a man who escaped justice."

That says it all.

Posted by: Ace at August 27, 2009 11:56 PM

What I love is MSM's inability, rather unwillingness to put it straight. On last night's The National, Neil McDonald said of kopechne [paraphrasing] "she was a woman who died in a car driven by Kennedy". Why so many words when it could be summed up by simply saying "He killed her".

BTW, I love the double standard of MSM. Making a big deal about Bush getting a drunk driving ticket in his younger days ("he could've killed somebody" MSM bleated with moral indignation), but giving a free pass to a drunk driver who ACTUALLY KILLED SOMEBODY.... oops, I mean, caused somebody to no longer exist (oops again)... I mean, be around as a result of a motor vehicle mishap.

Posted by: Jon at August 28, 2009 12:07 AM

Jon, it does not change. MSM has one standard for liberals and another higher bar for conservatives.

Posted by: Ken at August 28, 2009 12:39 AM

uh, bob c, I was one, first post thx.

Posted by: Erik Larsen at August 28, 2009 1:19 AM

"1896 Mauser broomhandle, with the powerful .30 Mauser cartridge...."

Er... not very powerful at all, actually
hardly got better as the 7.62x25 russian..but at least a little ore powerful. give me a .455 webley any time.

Didn't pickles bush drunkenly kill her boy friend back in texas at the age of 17? Well, I guess she did.

And George W. Bush..attempted to assualt his own father after being dressed down by the old man for driving drunk with his younger brother in the car...then lies us into a war that kills 50,000 to half a million Iraqis and several thousand US troops including a friend of mine. Hmmm. all kinds of badness in the world ain't there?

ps there were were cavalry charges well after the boer war, just not by WASPs. See poland in the Blitz.

Posted by: yar at August 28, 2009 1:56 AM

Were we not still at war with Iraq?
Did not the whole world, including the ever august New York Times, the Russians, the French and all of Sadamms Generals believe he had weapons?

Lastly, I dismiss any claim of one to another soldiers death. They are men, it is very clear the nature. I don't know how lefty crypto commie pacifist scum can claim for political advantage the speaking rights to people they never met and most likely would have nothing to do with them.
But then I'm not a Marxist so I see people as individuals and not as 'members of a class' or downtrodden peasants.

Posted by: Paul at August 28, 2009 7:04 AM

Back to Just Water Under the Bridge:

Interview with the Chappaquiddick diver who removed Mary Jo's body out of Ted's car July 19, 1969 is on :

The Dem's haven't change their tactics, as Joe the Plumber discovered recently. For no reason (other than intimidation), the diver (John Farrar)had his income tax investigated 3x in one year, as did the foreman of the jury. Since he was a pharmacist, they also had the FDA do an investigation. Scumbags.

If it seems doubtful that Kennedy could have made Chappaquiddick jokes, you have to read the whole story and this one interesting observation:

Kennedy did not inform the police of the accident while he was at the hotel. Instead at 9am he joined Gargan and Markham on the ferry back to Chappaquiddick Island. Steve Ewing, the ferry operator, reported Kennedy in a jovial mood. It was only when Kennedy reached the island that he phoned the authorities about the accident that had taken place the previous night.

RIP Mary Jo

Posted by: gellen at August 28, 2009 10:03 AM

I seem to remember one account of the tragic incident. Trouble is that the name and source escapes me. I understand one Joe Gargan, a Kennedy associate, arrived at the motel next morning.

Now what is important is that fairly substancial accounts say Kennedy even complained about noise of a party in that motel, during the night.

I read it that Gargan said to Kennedy "she's dead". I think there is a strong chance, Kennedy did not know that the young woman had the accident. He could have gotten out of the car, and let her drive off.

I believe a car had pulled up behind Kennedy as he parked with the young woman. It put on it's flashers and was said to be a local "trick" to spook lovers. It was driven off at that point. I trust the secret did not die with Ted Kennedy.

Posted by: Peter (Lock City) at August 28, 2009 12:01 PM

I think it's a good idea to read the story on Spartacus rather than put out 2nd hand stories that attempt to exonerate Kennedy, Peter. There was a trial, remember? It's all on record, including the change in the mph so that he could escape a manslaughter charge.
More "keep it honest":
"I was unfamiliar with the road and turned onto Dyke Road instead of bearing left on Main Street. After proceeding for approximately a half mile on Dyke Road I descended a hill and came upon a narrow bridge. The car went off the side of the bridge.... The car turned over and sank into the water and landed with the roof resting on the bottom. I attempted to open the door and window of the car but have no recollection of how I got out of the car. I came to the surface and then repeatedly dove down to the car in an attempt to see if the passenger was still in the car. I was unsuccessful in the attempt."

According to a statement issued by Kennedy on 25th July, 1969: "instead of looking directly for a telephone number after lying exhausted in the grass for an undetermined time, walked back to the cottage where the party was being held and requested the help of two friends, my cousin Joseph Gargan and Paul Markham, and directed them to return immediately to the scene with me - this was some time after midnight - in order to undertake a new effort to dive."

When this effort ended in failure, Kennedy decided to return to his hotel. As the ferry had shut down for the night Kennedy, swam back to Edgartown. It was not until the following morning that Kennedy reported the accident to the police. By this time the police had found Mary Jo Kopechne's body in Kennedy's car.

They tried to prove he was unfamiliar with the road but the Judge pointed out he'd driven down the road twice the day before.

There's more, much more, Peter. No other car, no flashing lights. Don't waste your time trying to whitewash Kennedy. It was tried.

Posted by: gellen at August 28, 2009 2:05 PM

> Didn't pickles bush
That's Mrs. Bush to you.

> drunkenly

No, according to the police report, alcohol/drugs were not involved. Click my name for the link to the Wikipedia article.

> kill
She ran a stop sign and caused a fatal accident.

> her boy friend

> back in texas at the age of 17? Well, I guess she did.

No, I guess she didn't. It was a terrible accident; unlike Teddy the Swimmer, she didn't leave the scene; her friend's parents did not press charges. And, unlike Teddy the Swimmer, she never joked about it. She never named her dog "Crash", for example.

Posted by: Mary in LA at August 28, 2009 3:47 PM

Black mamba

I never talked about 'Winston Spenser Churchill "

I talked about some other Mr. Churchill

you may not know him perhaps but he knows, this is long story!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do not know too much about Winston Spenser Churchill

just for clear above mad post with me
when I see name of Churchil I automaticaly hate this name for know one bad Mr. Churchill in my life he was devil and animal in body of human

Posted by: new at August 28, 2009 4:35 PM

So new...I'll call crock on that:

You said:

"he was scary cat to send other to die for him"
-Referring to military leader, or a former evil acquaintance of yours?

Begley referred to WS Churchill...and it seems that was the reference that put you into a spin.
If in fact you didn't know that was an historical reference perhaps you should take some World history lessons, and get out of the box.

Your spin is your problem.

Posted by: bluetech at August 28, 2009 5:31 PM

Oh, and new...
If you did bash Churchill here you are free to do so. We still have that element of free speech on the blogosphere.And I'm not aware of anyone on this blog holding up Churchill as a Diety, if you catch my drift.
The backpeddling was more a reflection of your fear. No apology needed.

sorry fo the o/t Kate.

Posted by: bluetech at August 28, 2009 6:06 PM

Not to whitewash Ted Kennedy. He has taken the truth to the grave. In his case, his "truth" is stranger than fiction.

Ted was going to put himself in the best light possible. A difficult job indeed. Others will know and who knows? Maybe we will get a whisper, now he has gone.
cordially. P.

Posted by: Peter (Lock City) at August 28, 2009 8:38 PM

Intriguing, Peter.

Posted by: gellen at August 28, 2009 10:54 PM

Kennedy loved to hear and tell Chappaquiddick jokes. Mary Jo Kopechne was unavailable for comment.

Posted by: Jeff Bauer at August 29, 2009 6:40 AM

Holy Cow, Kate. You have wackier trolls than we do down south.

Posted by: Greg at August 29, 2009 11:32 AM

Ted Kennedy didn't even have the class, before he died, to finally clear the air about what happened on that night in 1969.

It seems a shame - we now even know who "Deep Throat" was.

This was a politician who had a Massachusetts law changed in 2004 so that the Republican Governor of the state couldn't name John Kerry's successor as Senator, should Kerry win the presidency. Only to have his own law revoked in 2009 because the Governor of Massachusetts was now a Democrat.

As Donald J. Boudreaux said, "To the very end, Mr. Kennedy displayed his lack of principles."

May Ted Kennedy spend eternity in the back seat of a submerged 1967 Oldsmobile.

Anyway, here's an alternate version of what happened at Chappaquiddick;

"The truth is rarely pure and never simple." Oscar Wilde

Teddy's back in the tabloids. According to the New York Daily News, among others, The National Inquirer is reporting Kennedy fathered a son 21 years ago with a Cape Cod woman half his age. The Kennedy camp denies everything.Of course the tabs have resurrected the June 1969 scandal of Chappaquiddick — déjà vu all over again.And I guess it's time to tell the version I heard, supposedly from a horse's mouth, of what really happened there almost 37 years ago.

First a recap. Ted Kennedy's car went off a bridge and into a pond after a party for Bobby Kennedy's campaign staff on Chappaquiddick Island near Martha's Vineyard. A passenger, Mary Jo Kopechne (Ko-peck-nee) was subsequently found drowned in the car.

Kennedy claimed he dove repeatedly into the dark water but couldn't find her. Then, disoriented and hurt, he gave up. On it's face, a routine if terrible tragedy. But Kennedy and his handlers inexplicably waited 9 hours before reporting the accident.

The media frenzy was ferocious. There were claims Kennedy was drunk and that he and his staff engaged in a massive cover-up of the accident and the cause of Ms. Kopechne's death.

Kennedy eventually pled guilty to the charge of leaving the scene of an accident and the case was closed. Justice may not have been served for Mary Jo Kopechne, but many felt partial justice was achieved in the destruction of Ted Kennedy's chances to mount his own presidential campaign.

I was a carefree college student that summer of 1969, doing the European tour. When the scandal broke we were in Italy. A sidebar: it wasn't until we returned to the states that I learned the young woman's name was not Mary Jo "Co-pa-chine-eh" as had been widely reported in the Italian media.

Fast forward a few years to my post college life in the political arenas of Pennsylvania and Washington. I met a woman who was, to say the least, in the thick of things at Chappaquiddick. She told me her story — one that makes the most sense of the 9-hour lag in reporting the accident, the most critical and damning factor in the whole mess.It comes down to this. The party was filled with young girls star struck by the older power brokers with whom they were atypically socializing. Mary Jo in particular had a crush on Ted Kennedy. Everybody was drinking heavily.

At some point in the evening, feeling more than a little under the weather, Mary Jo wandered outside, saw Kennedy's car and crawled into the back seat to sleep it off.

At some later point, Kennedy and the woman who told me this story got in his car and headed for a more private party a deux. They were both, shall we say, plastered.

After the car went off the bridge, Kennedy's primary goal was to get his female companion the hell out of the picture. His wife was at home, after all, and pregnant to boot.

Here's the punch line: they didn't know Mary Jo was in the car.

Which provides the most locigal explanation for Kennedy's seemingly evil callousness in not trying to save her. And the troubling time lag as aides scrambled for damage control, not realizing that something far worse than casual infidelity would hit the fan.

My source's anonymity was protected. But her conscience was far from clear. I hope after all these years she's realized she was little more than a naive kid dazzled by a powerful figure with feet of clay. And that she had plenty of company. From those who gravitated to the first Kennedy in power all the way up to Monica.There are dozens of theories, reams of material, reports, hypotheses and even websites on what really happened at Chappaquiddick.

I didn't make this one up. I wasn't there. So I don't claim this is the Emmes. I'm just reporting the story I was told. We'll never know. After all … wait for it … there's too much water under the bridge.

Posted by: Sooke at August 29, 2009 11:43 PM

I had read carefully your account. I take it as sincere and in any case persons can take it or leave it.

I tried to put myself in Ted's shoes and use that mode to qualify his account. First, one has had a brush with death- their own. We know about the excellent people who have demonstrated on television what to do to get out of a submerged car. Not related to this case. We know that panic is a terrible thing.

He is soaking wet. He knows- so he claims a human being is in that car. He is a drinker. Here I am in his shoes. Whatever, I would have gotten well fortified if not drunk and tried to work it out from there. There was booze in that cottage.

Old Ted stayed sober. Just a few thoughts as the weather turns nice in Northern Ontario, but brisk.

Posted by: Peter (Lock City) at August 30, 2009 1:15 PM