Only a Troglodyte would not see this coming.

All them green hens coming home to roost.

I'm sure the good honest taxpayers of Ontario will be happy to know their 24.3% increase is doing absolutely nothing to save the planet.

But it does let them feel better about themselves.

Now if only Ontario would close down those massive coal fired, CO2 spewing plants.

Hey! some of those Fans are running Backwards.

And sound advice from Bjorn Lomborg about how to go about cutting carbon emissions (for those that believe in AGW):
http://www.montrealgazette.com/technology/carbon+fixation+will+cost/1903357/story.html

And it involves putting off the use of green tech for energy production until it, you know, actually works.

Fred.. Green eggs and ham. Where have I heard that before?

July invoice;
Actual hydro used: $30.63
Delivery charge: $35.80
Reg charge: $3.74
Debt retirement charge: $3.50
GST: $3.68

and they want to harmonize the GST/PST !!!!!

Enough said!

...And where is the grass roots revolt over all of this nonsense?...oops!, this is a Canadian subject thread. Never mind.

*Shrug Shoulders*...There ya go, I've done more than my Canadian share...I will now await my new higher hydro bill so I can complain while writing the cheque.

John Laforet's column has all of the numbers right except this statement: "Considering the cost of just 5% of Smitherman’s proposed five billion in investments will have an impact of 24.3% on your bill, you do the math and figure out how that other 95% of investment will impact your bill."

It's an increase of 24% on the distribution part of the bill only, not the whole bill. So it's about 12% increase of what you pay, not a 24%increase.

This is a minor quibble because the plan is still insane. What John hasn't factored in is the increase that will be caused by the take or pay contracts. It's also worth noting that transmission and distribution has to be built to match capacity, but because of the poor capacity factor of wind, most of that capacity will be severely underloaded most of the time.

There's no surprise in any of this. Hydro One has been telling the government about this madness for years and what it would have to do to recover costs. What isn't generally known is that most private power contracts require the producer to pay for the connection charge. The wind boys were given a free pass on this by the gov't long before Shitty Smitty took office, so Hydro One has to absorb it. H1 is not for profit, so it gets put into the electricity rates.

Greening of the energy sector has nothing to do with climate or the environment. Its a control and profiteering scheme and it shows.

Alsways - qui bono? qui bono?

Last monthly bill

Basic Charge $4.04
Useage Step1 Rate $26.42
Useage Step2 Rate $0
Rate Rider @ 1% $.30
Innovative Clean Energy Fund $.12
Regional Transit Levy $2.00
GST $1.64
Total $34.52

Hey this is chump change for Ontario! The industrial powerhouse of Canada! I'm sure its economy will have no trouble shrugging off this piddling increase.

That and the entire energy output of a windmill turbine over a typical 25 year lifespan is less than the energy used to create the materials to build it. It's a lose-lose proposition.

Jim said "Its a control and profiteering scheme and it shows."

When I point this out to people they all seem to have the same response. "But we have to do something".

Sometimes it's best to do nothing. This is going to raise the price of EVERYTHING by about 20% not just the hydro bills.

Because this is a family board, I will refrain from using profanity. I will say, however, I am very, VERY displeased.

Any accountants here? Can you explain to an accounting challenged how it is possible for labour costs to grow despite outsourcing and global economic decline? The labour costs are always cited as reasoning for price increases by our beloved utilities.

I call BS.

With urban sprowl the average cost of delivery in the province has to drop over time, not increase, as concentration of consumers increases on average.

Privatize the f--n thing! Create multiple commercial delivery companies who would compete with each other. I am sick and tired reading the notices of price increases from one utility after another, all while pay cuts are being introduced left, right and center.

BS!

LOL!! What kind of coverage in the mainstream press?

As we have dug into our Hydro Bills recently this part ticks me off immensely. Significant portions are becoming relatively fixed cost versus pure usage based. Now there is a calculation that they attatch but unlike the usage portion the amount is never printed as a cost per kwh.

Apparently the "debt repayment portion" is also partially usage based, but never broken out on a cost per kwh.

And the off peak pricing they are putting in place.....the difference between peak and non peak usage will only be on the usage portion which is less than half of the bill. So even if you are religous about doing your dishes and your laundry on weekends or after 10:00pm, easier to do with newer appliances that have timers, your savings are minimal.

The least they could do is have time savigs apply to distribution as well, then you might actuially shift behaviour.

My nrighbour just received her 3-month bill from Hydro one of 865$, of which 405$ were that 'delivery charge'. You do the math on what she'll pay in 2011.

Well, I've beaten them at their own game.

Cost of my stinking fan, batteries, solar panel, inverters & other hardware: 31,000$

Telling Hydro 1 to come remove their stiking meter, and never paying a red cent to them again: Priceless!

Maybe they can give him another award when all future manufacturing investments leave the province and look elsewhere due to overpriced costs and overhead. This reminds me of when a Long Island mothers organization gave Dina Lohan a mother of the year award.

Just wrote my MPP to let him know this is the last thing Ontario needs right now. I just hope voters remember this come election time.

This seems more like a scheme dreamed up by the rightoid pigs running OPG to stuff their friends pockets with cash while using the Green Energy Plan as a smokescreen.

It is plausible....you know!

a 3 month bill of $865??? Yowsa, I can only imagine what the bill would have been if the summer had actually been warm. Thats almost triple our bill for our family.

Is that a business bill?

But reagrdless, that half the bill is Delivery Charge is not surprising. And guess what, they probably dont lay out the cost on that section of the bill. You have to read the miceprint to find any references to it.

Hydro is out of control, still....the amount of money they wasted on the nuclear reactors, that still dont work as advertised, is still being paid for.

I guess this is the price we pay for adhering to Adam Beck's vision of not for profit energy. Had there been profit at the time maybe we wouldnt be paying off non value add debt charges.

McGuinty just rolls over and takes it while steamroller Smitherman ploughs forward.

It is the same old story. When utilities raise the rates enough people cut back on their usage. To makeup for the decrease the fixed costs go up. I have a lot of neighbours that no longer water their lawns because they charge sewer tax on all usage even though the lawn doesn't flush.

Kate:

How long would it take you to do up a Dalton McGuinty-as-the-Joker photo?

I think one is needed.

Thanks.

About 40 giant wind turbines were recently installed and set-to-work on Wolfe Island directly across from picturesque Kingston, On.

What a blight on the view looking out from Kingston. I can only dream that someday they'll be dismantled and relegated to the dust bin for all eternity.

And what's worse is that I can see them from my parent's balcony overlooking the harbour. It really dampens the otherwise salubrious experience of sipping on a Manhattan while enjoying all the pleasure craft in the harbour!

It's all according to plan. Just keep stepping up the costs of progress until we regress to an agrarian society. One day the entire population of Ontario will spend their days chilling at hipster bars downtown living large on the transfer payments from the rest of Canada. And of course there will be enough to go around... anyone who wouldn't vote NDP left for reality.

I live in Ontario. I'm not really happy about this proposed hike, but let's consider a few things, shall we?

1 - What Hydro One asks for, and what Hydro One gets are two separate things. In situations like this, it is to be expected that Hydro One will ask for more than they need, and that the OEB will give them some increase, but not all they request.

2 - $266 million over two years is roughly $11 million per month. There are approximately 11 million people in Ontario. Thus, for a household of 4, the average expected rise will be $4 per month (which is less than 15 cents a day), if Hydro One gets everything they asked for. As I said, I'm not happy about this, but it's not Armageddon either. Change a few lightbulbs from incandescent to compact flourescents, and it should be a wash.

I think Mr. Laforet uses statistics like drunks use lamp posts - for support, not illumination. His exaggeration of this proposed increase's impact is either deliberate, in which case I have no respect for him for deliberately overstating his case, or unwitting, in which case I have no respect for him for being innumerate.

Congratulations, GreenNeck. Welcome to your 40 year payback on invested capital, particularly given that the half life of what you've installed is about 20 years. A truly brilliant investment, sir.

Now if we could just get the government to think in those terms. Oh, wait....

As for Stephen's "nuclear reactors that still don't work as advertised". Oh, really? How so? Where do you think you're getting more than half your electricity from as an Ontario resident, you dolt? Were you by chance one of the boneheads years ago that claimed Darlington was unneeded and unnecessary?

KevinB, my parents pay over $300 for their Hydro bill. They are retirees (who are very water-conscious, by the way)and are constantly being assailed with rising costs and taxes, all of which are due to mismanagement, graft and "labour costs". This increase will finish them and others who will have no means to deal with such costs. The province of Ontario is sinking.

Kevin, do 9.5% mean nothing to you?

a 3 month bill of $865??? Yowsa, I can only imagine what the bill would have been if the summer had actually been warm. Thats almost triple our bill for our family.

They use electric heat, and the bills are averaged over the year. We don't need A/C in this area - maybe 2 nights every summer.

Congratulations, GreenNeck. Welcome to your 40 year payback on invested capital, particularly given that the half life of what you've installed is about 20 years. A truly brilliant investment, sir.

That's my own money, I do what I want. I am a firm believer in renewable energy, and walk the walk. Besides the payback is about 15 years, not 40. Even less now once you factor in all the coming increases. Appliances will need repairs/replacing but that's true of everything.

The answer is here: hyperionpowergeneration.com

The Los Alamos based company Hyperion Power Generation is developing a new power source called the Hyperion Hydride Reactor, a sealed fission reactor that can supply power to a small community. Although the portable nuclear reactor is the size of a hot tub, when it's hooked up to a steam turbine, the reactor can generate enough electricity to power a community of 25,000 homes for at least five years. As it is self-contained and involves no moving parts, the reactor doesn’t require a human operator and is considered "extremely safe". Some experts, however, are still questioning the logic of using even this relatively safe kind of nuclear energy. These experts are worried about the pollution created in the process of extracting the radioactive ore, and by the storage problems of the spent nuclear fuel.

KevinB, you IDIOT, there may be 11 million people in Ontario, but how many of those 11 million pay hydro bills? You think the 3 million under 18's pay a hydro bill? How about the million people on welfare, are they paying a bill? Do married couples pay 2 bills, or one?

What boils my blood, so to speak, is that the electrical generation is being built far from the bulk of the population. Rather than exercise political fortitude and telling the residents of the GTA that it would be enviromentally responsible to build the generating capacity in the GTA no we stick it as far away as possible. Then the province has to expropriate rural landholdings at extortion rates to build transmission lines to the GTA. Of course it is not only one way. Toronto is kind enough to send its garbage out to the hinterlans of Southwestern Ontario.

When the 1,000,000th "plug in and drive" Ecofraudmobile is sold all the smug greenies should plug them all in at the same time and then admire how bright the stars are during a massive power failure.

Larger industrial power users cut their own deals with Ontario Hydro. My bet is none of them will be getting this increase.

The guy across the street from me is a power lineman for Ont. Hydro. He made well over $100,000 last year. His 2 sons and 1 daughter all work for Hydro.

99% is probably due to their rising labour costs.

They electricty/nuclear industry is filled to the rafters with overpaid Union Members. They comprise the largest portion of workers that belong to the $100,000 Sunshine Club.

There is so much graft, incompetance in this industry its pathetic.

transfer payments? to a socialist province? I'd rather separate.

During the last election when Dion was going to green the country I read where Ont. subsidized power to the tune of about 20%. Is that subsidy going or are they still going to get the 20%? Electric cars don't purr when they run, they say 'gimmee gimmee gimmee."

re PhilM's comment at 2:12,I would heartily agree with these fans being an absolute blight on the landscape.The hubby and I took a drive thru St.Leon in soutern Manitoba on the wk-end,and there are a huge amt of these giant fans in what used to be a lovely drive.They are CREEPY,and a horrid site!

WHAT RISING LABOUR COST??? WHOSE SALARY IS RISING THESE DAYS???

It's either layoffs, or pay cuts.

DEATH TO THE UNIONS!!!

I live in Toronto and neither the Globe, Star, Sun or Post has any news about this today. WTF?

I am one of those highly paid Ontario Power Generation employees. I repair nuclear power plants for a living. I know that there are a lot of well educated highly skilled people here, but repairing nuclear power plants is not exactly an unskilled job. I could make more money doing what I do in the private sector. People I worked with have left OPG to work for other generators for a lot more money. I have not worked there long enough to take an early pension and move on, or I might consider it too.

I would argue that a lot of people who work at OPG are over paid, but I don't think that I'm one of them.

Aaron:
Kevin, do 9.5% mean nothing to you?

Er, yes, it means approximately one in ten. Is there any way by which you can attach this arithmetic generalization to the discussion at hand?

Obiwan Kenobe:
KevinB, my parents pay over $300 for their Hydro bill.

Let's assume an average price of $0.10 per kW/h, which very few residential subscribers pay, but it makes the arithmetic easy. Assuming a 30 day month, your parents are paying $10/day, which means they are using 100 kW/h per day. That is over 4 kW/h per hour. Could you please explain to us exactly what products and services your parents use that need 4000 watts of energy every second of every day?

Pete:

KevinB, you IDIOT, there may be 11 million people in Ontario, but how many of those 11 million pay hydro bills? You think the 3 million under 18's pay a hydro bill? How about the million people on welfare, are they paying a bill? Do married couples pay 2 bills, or one?

Pete, you illiterate, innumerate MORON, go back and read my post. I averaged it out to $1/month per person, and then explicitly said a family of four would pay $4 extra per month. That family of four presumably includes two of those "under eighteens" you refer to.

And people on welfare are a red herring. We, through our taxes, pay all their expenses - medicine, food, shelter, etc. If you want to complain about what welfare costs taxpayers, go ahead, but don't single out electricity like it's something special.

Aizen:

Hydro One had a fairly large notice on the bottom of page 3 of the National Post regarding the requested increase. I presume that similar notices would have been placed in other papers. Since at this point, it's just a request, I can understand the press ignoring it until the OEB responds.

The science deabt is over
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/images/stories/papers/originals/co2_report_july_09.pdf

The political battle must be taken up!

Just EFF OFF!!!

This is the price of uneconomy being foistered upon the economy.

Check this out:

http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/images/stories/papers/originals/co2_report_july_09.pdf

...and that from a province who is prepared to squander tax dollars on electric cars...

Lickmuffin at 2:08 p.m.

There has already been used at various demonstrations a delightful poster of Our Dear Leader Dalton with a pinocchio nose...mind you it's a very LONG wooden nose now with all the lies to the taxpayers of Ontario.

Just to give fellow Ontario electric power users an idea as to where their rates are headed currently we pay 5.7 to 6.6 cents per kWh for electricity.
A local dairy farmer is producing electricity with a manure digester and is being paid 14 cents per kWh for that power.
The large wind turbines and large solar parks are paid 40-some cents per kWh.
Small generation ( I can't remember just how small feeding into the grid) is paid 82 cents per kWh.
So you don't have to be math wiz to figure out where the rates are really headed and only 24% might sound good yet!

This should finish off any business or industry that has managed to survive in the province so far.

Just keep voting friggin' Liberal Toronto.

I told you, KevinB, they are not frittering away anything. Prices are being jacked up.

First Dalton the liar who promised not to increase taxes inflicted Ontarians with OHIP premiums which Mike Harris had eliminated, then McGuinty saddled ONtarians with Hydro rate increases and his next present to Ontario will be a harmonized sales tax in 2010 which will tax everything at 13%. And fools wonder why Ontario is going down the tubes.

I was going to mention the Hyperion solution as well. Factory sealed, and need to be shipped back every 7-10 years for refueling. 25-30 Million each.
I wonder how the price compares with the big CANDU's we have now. Certainly we can reduce the amount of loss we have by generating power closer to the consumer.

Obiwan Kenobi:

In law, they would call your answer "non-responsive". I share a small bungalow in Richmond Hill with another person. We both have extensive computer systems, which are on a lot. I have an electric bike which I recharge every day. We have A/C, but set the temp and timer so it doesn't get used much in the day. Our electricity bills rarely exceed $60/month. Using my $0.10 per kW/h pricing, we use about 600 kW/h per month. That's about 20 kW/h per day, or less than 1 kW/h per hour. Your parents are using more than FOUR TIMES that amount. Again, I ask: what are your parents doing that require this amount of energy?

Ezekiel saw a blade a turnin'

way in the middle of the air.

Aaron said "Any accountants here? Can you explain to an accounting challenged how it is possible for labour costs to grow despite outsourcing and global economic decline?"

Labour costs are measured as a percentage of sales. If sales go down your labour costs go up unless you lay off people. So if you have ten people making 10 widgets a day but then one day you only make 5 widgets then your labour costs will have doubled for that day unless you sent 5 people home. That's a simplified version. So my guess would be that if your labour costs are going up plus you're outsourcing etc then you have too many employees or you're paying them too much.

In reality you may need all those employees but your plant is inefficient for other reasons. This could give the false impression that you have to many employees.

Best I can do.

KevinBstupid, you are wrong in every analysis you've done on this. First, you take the reported shortfall they're trying to cover ($266 million) and divide it up among every resident of Ontario to show a minuscule monthly increase. But the fact is, there are not 11 million people paying the tab, it's far less. Regardless of that, the article clearly states that they are raising rates by 24% over two years, not that they will be billing an extra $266 million divided amongst all paying customers. A 24% increase on the delivery portion of my bill will result in about $12 per month extra. And that rate increase is permanent, it's not just until they've raised $266 million.

pete, I'm sure the square root of your IQ is comfortably in the single digits. First, as I've noted before, the 24% is a request, not a done deal. Second, if 24% of your current bill (pun intended) is $12, you're spending about $100/month on electricity. I've challenged someone else who has high power bills; now I challenge you. My roomie and I can get by on $60/month, including multiple computers, A/C, electric bike, etc. Why do you need to spend so much?

And please explain why it's wrong to figure out a per capita cost. With the possible exception of the homeless, everyone in Ontario uses electricity, and everyone pays for it in one way or another (directly, through their parents or spouse, or by the government - i.e. the rest of us through taxes).

Does anyone else remeber news footage of Minister George Smitherman being interviewed in a press scrum and Smitherman saying the rate increases for all this new "green" energy with the Green Energy Act would amount to something like 1% ??

KevinB, I have a family of 7 (myself included) and an electric stove. I'm a computer tech, so aside from the five family computers that are regularly in use, I usually have a couple to a dozen client machines sucking power too. And as far as it being a request, if they don't get all they're requesting this time, they'll simply request it next year, and the year after, and the year after that too! The funny thing about publicly owned/run corporations, is they never undergo any sort of cost cutting measures. So if I don't end up paying the 24% extra in the next two years, I'll still end up paying it a year or two later. I'm smart enough to figure that much out, so I guess that means the square root of your IQ would be equal to your IQ, eh?

Minuteman: "I would argue that a lot of people who work at OPG are over paid, but I don't think that I'm one of them."

Then what about John Murphy, a techie, and the former Union Head of the Power Workers Union who strangley manages to land the position of VP of their HR department earning $200,000 plus and then a few years later a top VP earning over $700,000!!!

How the hell does that happen?