A grand old bird.

Hopefully they will be bringing her down to Halifax for the HIAS this September.

Only appropriate for the 100th anniversary of flight in Canada. Would be extremely cool for them to get a pic of her flying over Baddeck.

Naw.Saw her in edmonton coupla weeks ago,just before the lanc.Wonder how many lefturds will be out protesting a display of such horrible killing machines? And think of the CO2!!!!!

Saw the Golden Hawks fly in their first year (1959) and I still remember the feeling! For a young man of 9 it was spectacular....caused me to want to be a pilot. Though I ended up in ATC, I spent my career around airplanes and left with some wonderful memories.

I served under the man who commanded the Canadian squadron that taught the Luftwaffe to fly the Sabre in Germany. He had fought the Luftwaffe while flying the Spitfire. I think the Spit was his favorite although he also spoke highly of the Sabre.

Oooooo, shiny!

Kate, thx for posting the link. My dad flew Sabres in Germany for several years in the 50's before coming back to Canada and having me. :-)

He's aware of the refurb but I don't know if he's aware of the Toronto show.

Joe at 8:25. General Adolph Gallant was the general i/c of the western front fighter wing during WWII. When Hitler asked him on a visit to France if he needed anything, Gallant replied, "Give us Spitfires". Hitler was not amused.

although he was, after a fashion, certainly 'gallant'.....his surname was Galland...

I have a print signed by both Douglas Bader and Adolf Gallant.
very cool.

PhilM: Actually Adolf Galland, author of "The First and the Last" (read when I was nine, did a book review for our paper at the International School in Moscow in 1956).

Mark
Ottawa

I checked out on the Sabre in January 1952 at RCAF St Hubert while on 421 Squadron where the Squadron left behind our De Havilland Vampires after a year spent withh the RAF in England. We ferried our complement of aircraft across the Atlantic to open up RCAF Gros Tenquin, France in September/October of that year. I knew almost all of the Golden Hawk pilots many of whom, including myself went on to fly the CF-104 Starfighter. Although my total flying time on the Sabre was limted due to a short tour time was I managed to get in another ferry trip across the Atlantic to catch up on aircraft that went to the RAF. At a SPAADS (Sabre Pilots Association Air Division Squadrons)reunion in Halifax a Sabre was available for old jocks like myself to sit in the cockpit - what a flood of memories that evoked.

cal2, there was a story that Bader used to love to tell about a reunion of the Commonwealth Air Training Scheme that occured about 10 years after the war.

He was one of the invited guests along with Galland. Some questioned wether having Galland there was appropriate, seeing as how he triple digit kills of Allied airmen.

Someone piped up that if it were not for blokes like Galland there would not have been a need for a Commonwealth Air Training Scheme!

Bader and Galland were the hit of the reunion.

Cool! So when does this baby go into service?

I remember clearly watching the Golden Hawks when I was a kid in Calgary. A remarkable aircraft and great pilots.

This thing is absolutely gorgeous. Went up to the airport to see it when it was here in Calgary a few weeks ago.

Funny, doncha think, that Canada has all kinds of money for stupid things, but seems to have very little to keep some of its heritage alive.

The people who restored this plane did it for the love of the aircraft. It is wonderful to see it in the air again.

What an absolute classic.

Canada has much to be proud of in the Sabre. while it may not be a Canadian design, the Canadair built Sabre 6 with the Canadian designed and built Orenda engine is universally recognized as being the finest Sabre variant ever built. I'm proud to be good friends with one of the main RCAF test pilots of the Sabre 6, he's even part of the Mach 1 club, having taken the Sabre past mach 1 in a dive, several times.

For all you plane lovers, there's a CAR SHOW at the Canadian Warplane Heritage tomorrow, Sunday, from 10:00AM to 4:PM.

The Phantom will be there. {In disguise, of course.) The Phantom Mobile might be there too, I haven't decided it its worth loading it on the trailer and schlepping it over to the airport.

The Phantom will also be going to the Ex, with a big honking telephoto lens if I can swing one. The Sabre and the F-22 on the same bill? Oh baby!

There used to be one outside the gate at CFB Chatham done up in Golden Hawks colours.

Anyone know where it ended up?

Further to what Harrison wrote, and I'm going on memory here, but I'm pretty sure that in his autobiography Chuck Yeager talks about his time in Germany and how the American Sabres couldn't keep up with their Canadian counterparts because the latter had the Orenda engine.

I read somewhere that the guy who played the "Klingon" named "Worf" in the TV show "Startrek the next generation" has his own fully functional F-86 that he flys around at Airshows and such.

Curious says "There used to be one outside the gate at CFB Chatham done up in Golden Hawks colours.

Anyone know where it ended up?"

Nope...no idea. But the difference between seeing one in display and one in the air is like night and day. One of the most beautiful aircraft ever built.

Funny you mention the influence the F86 had on a lot of youth...me included....
But as a ground pounding grunt....I still fondly remember (tears....) the sound of "Sandy's" (Douglas Sky-raiders) incoming......their air-to-ground maneuvers were virtually identical to a Snow-Bird routine....
The four-leaf clover was evolved by the close-support Typhoons of WW2 to keep at least 1 bird chewing up the weeds from ever changing directions.
Victor Charles was not particularly fond of the "Sandy's".
The Douglas Sky-raider was a single engine (big radial) capable of hauling a weapon load in excess to that of a B17 (Flying Fortress).

I have an associate visiting from OZ....
According to him OZ, had Commonwealth build licence built versions of the sabre, with the Rolls-Royce Avon engine.....which were the fastest variant of the sabre....
Apparently the sabre-6 was the inspiration...
According to him....
(just got smacked).......

Justthinkin said: "Wonder how many lefturds will be out protesting a display of such horrible killing machines? And think of the CO2!!!!!"

The Sabre and 7 Snowbirds just put on a charity show over Nanaimo earlier this week. The beneficiary of the event was 'The Children with Intestinal and Liver Disorders Foundation (CHILD) - and the pilots put on a great show over the harbour.

The front page headline of the local paper was "Snowbirds give kids a lift".

Less than 24 hrs. later there was a letter to the editor decrying the 'pollution' of their display smoke and the waste of fuel and resulting carbon.

I think we can be pretty sure this person didn't write a cheque to CHILD, either.

Idiots.

I saw them at Moose Jaw air show. the Golden Hawks were similar to the Snow Birds in performance. If you look at the air intake at the front of the Sabre, and compare it with the headlight of a 56 Ford T-Bird, you'll see where ford might have used some of the Sabre's aerodynamics. Interesting!!

Back in the 60's my cousin had the oppertunity to buy a Spitfire for 1500 bucks. He turned it down because it was leaking to much oil. Of course now a days a fully restored Spitfire is worth around 16 million or so I'm told.

I'm fairly ignorant when it comes to airplanes, but the F-86 has always been my favourite since I was a kid. Nowadays there are undoubtedly many military planes that can go faster, higher, and do more damage -- but I think you can tell just from the way the F-86 *looks*, that the people who designed it really loved their jobs. If cool looks could win air battles, this would be #1.

Worked it into Winnipeg a few months ago, where it had to get some radio repairs done. Lovely piece of machinery... Second only to the F4 in my heart.

I have heard that story before about Adolf Galland telling Hitler to give him Spitfires but I do not think that it is true unless he said it late in the war, of course they had the Me 262 which was superior to any fighter at that time (they just didn't have many of them). The Spitfire in the early years of the war may have been able to out turn a Bf 109 but a Bf 109 had a higher climbing and diving speed then the Spitfire, in terms of speed they were about the same so they were about equally matched. When the Germans came out with the Fock Wulf FW 190 A, it was far superior then any Spitfire up to the Mk 5. According to Johnny Johnson FW 190s were shooting down Spitfires at a ratio of 2 to 1. Of coarse when the Mk 9 came along the tables were turned. Adolf Galland did tell Hitler to stop producing the Messerschmitt Bf 109 use the Fw 190 as a interim fighter while the Messerschmitt plants re tooled for the Messerschmitt Me 262 jet fighter which interestingly enough the F 86 Sabre was based off of. If Hitler had listened to Adolf Galland the out come of the war might have been very different. Thank God he didn't listen.

I used to tape pics of aircraft on my high school locker.

found out my home room teacher was a former cdn forces pilot.

when I was about 5 or 6 my daddy took us to the gravel road at the end of the city airport runway. just in time for a B-17 or something to take off. my gawd the things we recollect eh?

I remember the Golden Hawks performing at the Kelowna Regatta in the early '60's. Thanks for re-kindling the memory. They were very impressive.

it must have been fun sitting on top of that jet engine.

Justhinkin: You needn't worry that the lefties overlooked the CO2 angle - the aircraft flew with a Snowbird demo in Nanaimo this week, and right on cue, some twit wrote a letter to the Nanaimo paper and bitched about the waste of energy.

Warren @ 1:33
My understanding of Hitler's thoughts on jet prodution was "Nein!" I thought he was into bombers and was understandably upset when he visited what was otensibly a bomber plant when in fact it was jet prototyping. Certainly, Galland argued in favour of jets over props.

As for Galland's quote on 'give me spitfires...', either I got it from the book cited earlier in this thread 'The First and the Last' or my father, who met Galland on several occasions on business (after the war of course :-), told me he said it.

Phantom said "For all you plane lovers, there's a CAR SHOW at the Canadian Warplane Heritage tomorrow, Sunday, from 10:00AM to 4:PM."

If you're a gearhead this would be the place to be. I spent 2 days there this year and it's amazing. You can actually watch them working on the engines and ask them questions. Plus there are very knowledgeable. people to talk to you about the the different planes. And there are some very cool planes.

sasquatch: From Paul at "Celestial Junk":

"Bring Back the Skyraider 2"

Mark
Ottawa

You guys, Galland never said "Give us Spitfires, sir." to Hitler. He said it to Herman Goering, who was field marshal of the Luftwaffe and one of Hitler's original bully boys from the Munich days.

Accounts vary as to the actual wording, but by all accounts Herman was seriously p1ssed!

Apparently this kind of bad career move was habitual with Galland, because he got demoted back to active duty in 1945 for suggesting Goering was an incompetent dork.

Anyway I'm packing up The Phantom Mobile and heading to the car show. Get my picture taken next to the Lancaster, you betcha.

Well, I might as well toss in my two cents worth. I flew Hawk One back in 1968, as a matter of fact, my last flight in a Sabre was in 314 on May 15,68 out of Chatham NB, a 1.1 hour mission on CPM (Combat Profile Mission) 54. The Sabre was the last of the "kick the tires,light the fires" fighters. A dream to fly and because there were no "buses," your first flight was a solo, flying the Sword was very personal. On another note I see Bob Wood has commented and I remember Bob from 104 days in Cold Lake. Bob was an instructor when I went through on Starfighter course 31. Bob, check your log book for Oct 1,68, we spent 5.5 hours flying together that day. As for the above mentioned reunion, it was a fighter pilot reunion held in Winnipeg in 71, I believe, and I was lucky enough to have a conversation with Galland,Bader and Johnnie Johnson ( 34 kills). There were many wartime pilots from many countries but none from the Soviet Bloc or Japan. To go back to Hawk One for a moment, Jerry Weatphal, who we youngsters looked up to in the early 70s, scored 94 hits during air to air gunnery in old 314, a record, At the French Air Force Base Rabat Sale Morocco on Nov 25,1955.
I actually believe I could climb into that old bird today and feel right at home as I believe most old Sword drivers would.

Awesome story, Capt. Craig! Thanks for that.

Mark Ottawa:

Yeah I heard about that...
The swabbies are inovative....
Turbo-props are not as maintainence intensive...
Quicker response---less transit time with fixed wing....
less friendly fire from props....
We used to throw the smoke out for the fast movers.....so we didn't get hit by the splash....

It flew in Nanaimo before the snowbirds last week, no leftards in sight, they behave in situations like this as they dont want to be labled party poopers.

PhilM: You are absolutely right, that is why Hitler demanded that the Me 262 carry bombs which of coarse negated its fighting abilities although he did allow some of the Me 262s to serve their intended role as fighters. As for the Galland comment you may be right I just haven't seen proof of it. Mind you Galland was a bit of a big mouth which at times didn't serve him to well.

Capt Craig,I am not quite sure how to take your comments on flying with me at Cold Lake.I was Base Flight Safety Officer and in fact was never a CF !04 Instructor. I kept my hand in by flying occasionally and doing test flights. In fact on one of the flights I was given an aircraft without tip tanks and was doing a few loops below a layer of cloud at about twenty thousand feet. I momentarily took my eyes off the angle of attack guage while tightening the loop to avoid entering the cloud. What manoevers the aircraft went through next I can not describe but it was clear I was in a tumble. My hand flashed back and forth between the drag chute deployment handle and the ejection handle. One of my my more marked talents, procrastination, prevailed and lo and behold the aircraft stated flying again at about twelve thousand feet. That saved me the embarrassment as Flight Safety Officer having an ejection and lost aircraft due to my own ham handedness!

Yo Bob, Memory is a fleeting thing but As BFSO you were a constant presence at the Sqn. and you did fly with me on Oct 1,68 in T-Bird 497 Od-RCA, RCA-GFA, GFA-OD. Come on dig out your old log book, And believe it or not I remember buying a green corduroy shirt in the BX at RCA. How's that for memory?
For John Luft: The Chatham Sword is now in the Atlantic Canada Aviation Museum located just outside Halifax Airport. Read about it here http://www.atlanticcanadaaviation.com/sabre/sabre2.htm

Well, I'm back from the car show. The Warplane Heritage has a Saber in the collection, in Golden Hawks colours to boot. Obviously I took a picture.

I also got a walk-through in the Lancaster. It is -small- in there. Once upon a time I was able to get into a B-17, its like a barn compared to the Lancaster.

There will be pictures at my blog tomorrow. :)

Again for Capt. Craig. I am at our summer cottage at Brightsand Lake about 360 ks east of my log book so will look up that trip when I next get back to St Albert. Yes, I did quite a few of those sort of trips in the old reliable T-33s. I am at a real disadvantage when I have to rely entirely on my memory. Sorry to use your comments section to converse with Capt Craig Kate but I cannot get out on email from here.

kakola: "and bitched about the waste of energy"

I live due south of Calgary Int'l and see many wastes of energy flying over my house. I never fail to run outside, or at least look out a window, to see what's wasting it this time.

The Snowbirds landed in formation Friday morning - too bad the Sabre wasn't with them. I eagerly await September when the RAF Tornados pop 'round to take their turn wasting energy. Six of them taking off at once will shake the pictures off the wall and the teeth right out of your head. :)

"I checked out on the Sabre in January 1952..." Bob Wood @ 9:29pm

Holly crap! Bob must be older than dirt. That was a whole three months before I made my humble appearance in this world. Those were the days when the Canadian Air Force actually had more aircraft than you could count on all your fingers and toes.

By the time I joined up the Sabres were out and that crappy green uniform was in. However, many of the ground crew that taught me the trade in Chatham were former Sabre folks. Talk about your "war" stories. As for the fond memories thing I recall back in the early 80's they brought a Sabre up for an air show in Namao. I think I still have some pictures somewhere of the Sabre and a pair of Starfighters flying in formation. I'm not sure but I think the Sabre was a NASA B1-RD.

Thanks for the flashbacks Mr Wood & Capt Craig.

Bob, when you get back send me an E-mail, I've got more guts than Dick Tracy. kimchi@nf.sympatico.ca
You remember Course 31! Ben Oxholm, Rod Ellis, Pete Caws,Chris Tuck, a few others and me! I remember my first mach 2 run, I didn't make it, I got to M 1.85 and the SLOW light came on and I chickened out. After a debrief by USAF exchange pilot Jamie Denard I went at it again and sought the T-2 reset line and screw the slow light and hit Mach-2 and a little bit... really cool... big grin under the mask... now to slow down... pull back on the stick... trade airspeed for altitude... Do you have any idea how high you can go when you start out at 37 thousand feet at Mach 2? Holy shit! I was passing through 65 thousand feet and as I rolled inverted and started to bring the nose down to get back into thick air I was worried that if the engine flamed out my goose was cooked. We didn't wear pressure suits and the engines weren't tuned for high altitude forays, there was a water boiler, which we never used, for that sort of mission, remember, the 104 could easily zoom to close to 100 thousand feet. R.A. Bracket Bud White has the Canadian altitude record of 100,110 ft which he established on 14 Dec 67. He used an AETE bird # 700 which was the first aircraft off the line at Canadair. Skeptics, including me think we could have done better has we used a later production aircraft and an experienced 104 pilot. Anyway, as I was saying, there I was heading skyward like a homesick angel and really wanting to return to breathable airspace... It starts to get twilight up there, light and dark become sharply defined and you can actually start to discern the curvature of the earth... upside down at 70 thousand plus you are at the apogee of a parabolic arc and playing the angle of attack like an "all in" call by the Devil. Slowly the nose comes down and airspeed builds up, it was down to squat at the top, and then I head for the bar and lie about the whole trip like everyone else, "Yah man, it was a piece of cake!"
Those were the days!
On a somber note we lost 37 pilots and 100 airframes during the 104 era but I wouldn't have traded those days for all the gold in Shangri La.

Bob Wood at 9:29.

If you're in Spaads, then you might know my father, Dusty Miller. He flew in 444 Sqn out of Baden-Sollingen (sp?)in the mid-50's.

God bless all of you who stood, and continue to stand, on the front lines between tyranny and freedom. Thank you.

Why is it only just being posted when the CNE is involved? Heck, it flew last weekend at Abbotsford.