"It is a truth universally acknowledged....."

I suppose all the Judeans were busy doing other things, like preventing one mass murdering group of Palestinians from killing another mass murdering group of Palestinians.

Go Fatah go . . . or . . . Yea, yea Hamas.

Take you pick.

And this is a surprise how? I'm trusting most of those papers aren't engineering thesis' or science dissertations. The "progressive" sheeple factory continues to espouse hate by wanna be politicians and statesmen who have come to the reality that those who can, do, those who can't teach until they get tenure and then sit back and enjoy the money rolling in from a bullet proof position.

June 1942 -- clearly the multi-state concept of Europe is producing untold conflict and hardship between the Germans, who simply want their right of lebensraum and the right of return/unification for the German peoples living in the Grossdeutchland and the apartheid seeking Russians, and English and French and Belgians and Dutch and Poles. This conference seeks to explore the progressive efforts of the National Socialist German Workers' Party, (not to mention the progressive efforts of Liebstandardt Adolph Hitler division) and explore peaceful solutions that will come when everyone, especially those pesky Jooos, just knuckle under and live like the good little slaves we want them to be. All papers have been peer reviewed by the Reichsministry of propaganda.

"You would think..." No I wouldn't. Its an Ontario university. Their descent to the Dark Side was complete long ago.

You want your kid to get an education? Trades is it.

Ah, Kate's insecurity complex about never having received a university education comes out via yet another anti-university post. Kate, take a few courses. Yes, even in the dreaded social sciences. You'll quickly see that blogs are no substitute.

A few months ago, I was asked by my family where my niece should go to school, U of Toronto or York. She had done very well in high school and pretty much could go where she wanted.

Reply: "York is where the people who can't go to a real university go if need a degree after their name. You'll probably come out less intelligent than you went in."

Smart guy A person that can make a part is smart. A person that can pay his bills is smart. A group of people that sit on their arse and pontificate on the moral superiority of one religion or another are drags on society. By the way I do have a degree and some of the most inept humans I have ever met also have degrees. The reason is simple, they could never hold a real job or have the guts to create their own. How about a PhD that has to hire an electrician to put in a ceiling fan in an existing fixture? A CSB or a GIC is the tough investment decision because at 50 years old it's the first job he has had.. and it's gov't..and we were TOLD to hire him. No one will do his work. My reply was I don't babysit. I let him lead on projects.. that was his job.. not one got completed in 7 years before I retired. Oh Oh Dion never impressed me. IIIIggMEMEME doesn't impress me and bambam ain't even in the building.

So Smart Guy. How many people read your blog, dude?

Tell me, btw. Do you know the difference between an Allen key and a keyed shaft? I bet a dollar Kate does.

Marxists clutch onto anti-aparthied like a drowning sailor onto flotsam. It justifies the long decades of false starts and patient inaction standing on the sidelines building common fronts while all of South Africa grew and prospered economically but regressed politically and socially.

The blueprint is the same via the Communist Party of Israel and Arab front groups as far as they are concerned. Well at least after all the blood has dried up or washed away.

I look forward to the Jewish right of return to the Arabian Peninsula (along with apology and reparations), now occupied by the apartheid state of Saudi Arabia.

I think all this really proves is it's pretty easy to to find 44 asshats; 45 if you include Smart Guy.

"Smart Guy", let me tell you, university is overrated.

Been there, done that, got a piece of paper on the wall that says so.

And let me tell you... Kate's a better "professor" than most actual ones I've had.

So what the hell are you doing here (Smart Guy)
slumming I suppose. Do not diss Kate.

When have universities ever been places of evenhanded enlightenment? Not when I went in the early eighties. The sixties? Not a chance. During galiaeo's time.

I would be interested if someone could prove my asertion wrong but I doubt it.

I've worked at a university 3 times with 3 different job descriptions. For the most part the students and professors were dumb as rocks. And pompous to boot. My best friend worked at a university for over 20 years as a tradesman. He got tired of being treated like an idiot when he knew he was smarter than these bozo's so he started writing the Mensa tests. He passed. It embarrassed them that they only had 2 employees who were Mensa and one of them was fixing the clocks.

Having said that there were some prof's and students who were obviously intelligent and loved teaching and learning.

I won't mention the engineers. :)

Oh and one more jab at sfart guy..

Have you ever been to York U? Know anyone from there? It's a pretty special place. 2 years there and I hope I never see it again.

I feel bad for a few professors I had there. There are actually good ones. I don't understand why they put up with all the BS. Especially Jewish ones giving instruction to students that would rather spit on them than learn from them. They can only claim the location is conducive to where they want to live.

And why any Jewish students even bother with the place anymore? Can't say for sure but they come with the impression they were welcome and leave a little battle weary.

The YFS are a bunch of CAW/CUPE wannabes, making a career out of protesting.

Good grief! Not York again!

Look, it's time we all call a quack a quack, York is not a learning institution. It's a long term social experiment run by people with some of the world's most ludicrous ideas.

I am smart (and funny) because many of you have replied to me using my this chosen name, thus making your responses look ridiculous. lol.

I think it's best to read the conference outline and the papers carefully. It looks like a serious and actually, a very good conference. And most certainly, there is NOT 'uniform acceptance that Israel is operating an apartheid state similar to S. Africa'. Absolutely not. Read the paper abstracts.

The main questions explored are the relation and rights between a settler population and an indigeneous population, and the two-state versus one-state solution.

Conference presenters are Jewish and Muslim and Christian, and there are quite a few from Israel as well.

The keynote paper explores how a settler population deals with an indigeneous population - a valid question. The author refers to this situation in a general not specific-to-Israel analysis.

Other papers refer to but question the validity of the popular analogy of Israel as an apartheid state and explore how some attributes fit but others do not and how one must be extremely cautious with this analogy.

Others explore the reality of the settlements of the West Bank, which effectively nullify any land base for a Palestinian state, and which could lead to civil war in Israel if the settlers were made to move. These are all part of the 'indigeneous rights versus acquired rights of settlement' perspective.

Other papers reject the notion of 'two cultures hating each other' and promote a one-state solution and yet, express concerns about how it would operate and the ideological and emotional obstacles. Economic and social implications are discussed in several papers.

Others suggest the two-state solution but critique it as based on the notion of 'two sworn enemies'. Others see it as the only solution.

There's an interesting paper on 'mental maps' of both Israelis and Palestinians. And another on a binational model..a very interesting proposal to have shared powers.

Another looks at the treatment of Palestinians by Jordan and Lebanon. Another rejects the Palestinian 'right of return'. Another considers whether international law is strong enough to assist the development of both a Palestinian and Israeli state. There is even a paper on a 'city-state solution', which if I understand it, focuses on shared economic development in cities.

And yes, there's even the gender-based perspective and women's rights. And another one exploring the notion of Gaza as a separate entity reliant on Egypt rather than Israel.

All in all, I'd say, from reading the paper abstracts, and seeing where the conference presenters come from, it looks like an excellent, open and thorough conference, unbiased and considering all issues and all sides. And absolutely nothing to do with the description as posted above.

How many gave correct attribution to Jimmy Carter?

"I am smart (and funny) because many of you have replied to me using my this chosen name .."

Smart guy has a bit of an ego, and poor grammar.

Madrid trains, Mumbai trains, Beslan school, Moscow theater, Philippine missionaries, Egypt tourists, Bali hotels, Iraqi Shiia and Kurdish mosques and markets, Paris arson, Denmark assassination, Saudi apartment buildings...

Whenever I'm told that we had no enemies in the Middle East until we supported Israel, I'm reminded that muslim fanatics are killing people all over the world who never supported Israel.

ET,

So, are you saying that Charlotte Allen's head is in her ass? That's what is sounds like.

And Fart Guy sounds like a stupid immigrant having fun with the locals. In any case, he is an idiot to be ignored.

Not surprised in the least that a university would deliberately rig something so as to make students think Israel's bad and "Palestine" is good. After all, universities have been taken over by the Activist/Propagandist Left, which includes more than plenty of anti-Semites.

And, Momar, I'd say that Fart Guy also sounds as arrogant and conceited as Obama.

The left wing sand dunes just hate Israel; just as they hate sucess. Just look at the people around them. Living off the rest of the world so they can run around every day with their arms in air so the can fart better I guess. So it takes very little brain power to see Israel is not the the bad guy's

The best post I've read on this subject. Thank you for the smile.

momar - I have no idea what you are talking about.

I read the abstracts of the papers; it's a long list - and commented that they looked to be very thorough, legitimate and sincere explorations of the issues of Israel-Palestine. They seem to be, for the most part, unbiased and looking at the real problems of the area, and looking at the situation via BOTH perspectives.

As I said, the papers explore issues dealing with indigeneous and settler rights both in Israel and elsewhere, with the two-state and one-state solution, and suggest benefits and problems with both. They explore the Palestinian side, the Israeli side, the complexities within both sides, and so on.

From the comments of some posters here, I get the impression that no-one has read the abstracts of the papers or even bothered to check out where the presenters are from, and their disciplines. I suggest you do that; it appears to me as a legitimate and valid conference.

And as I said - the papers have absolutely nothing to do with the outline of it by the person above..as 'uniform agreement that Israel is apartheid' and etc etc. That's nonsense. Read the abstracts of the papers. They are legitimate and thorough debates about what is feasible for both peoples.

Gees, ET, how can we get a good rant going if you bring your logic and facts into the thread, burst our bubbles and we all have to wander away, mumbling "Oh well then if we had of read the agenda...but York is a commie hotbed...damn"

Smart Guy, pi** off.

I have two university degrees (well, whoopee) and I'm with Kate. Having a degree from the uni proves only that I can write essays and pass them in more or less on time.

So what?

ET,
If (Per ET) the definition "Indigenous" can’t be used to describe the tribes of Palestine... How can the pre-condition that they are Indigenous be a valid argument..?

One must be extremely cautious with this analogy?

Abigail Bakan: "...we suggest that the analogy [with Apartheid] is essentially valid."

Omar Barghouti: "...a process of non-violent transformation requires a revitalized, democratized Palestinian civil resistance movement with a clear vision for a shared, just society and international support for Palestinian rights and for ending all forms of Zionist apartheid and colonial rule..."

Not very cautious.

Smart guy – the educated fool is a virtual proverb. Some of the goofiest misfits I ever met were in my university days. Most people go to university because they don’t know what to do with lives or are putting them on hold till someone tells them what to do. A real ‘smart guy’ finds what makes him/her happy and goes after it. People who make a point of standing on their academic credentials are sorry assed bores – besides suffering from inferiority complexes.

A wise Newfie Pipefitter once told me: " A half-hour in the bag is worth seven years of University"

But I must admit Vitruvius' vocabulary ain't vocational.

So, how would you react if the United Nations carved out a section of Ontario to be a homeland for Tamils?

So, how would you react if the United Nations carved out a section of Ontario to be a homeland for Tamils?

Yes, that comparison with the British Mandate in the 1940s is EXACT.

Wait no ... what's the word I'm looking for? Oh, right. Insipid.

gee let me think MR populist....hmmmmmmm

i reckon about the same as i'd feel if the 'paleostinians' tried to claim they owned land that the jooooos had lived on 4000 years before the word and concept of a 'paleostinian' was ever conceived of or uttered...

how do you like THOSE matzos you smucka?

As Ayn Rand said, the fundamental moral principle of a civilized society is that no person has the right to initiate the use of force on any other person. If this principle were accepted universally, it wouldn't make a bit of difference whether the ultimate result was a one-state or two-state "solution". Government would exist only to step in when one person used force against another, and it would be blind to the racial or religious characteristics of the persons involved.

Thinking idealistically, Israelis (and everyone else on the planet) would be better off if this principle were universally accepted -- because there would be no enemies to fear -- than merely by inhabiting a "Jewish state".

Having said all this, in today's world, I have to side with Israel, although not to the point of giving it carte blanche.

I wonder sometimes.
And I am gonna stick my neck out here.
There are better places in this world to establish a state.

So why Israel where it is?
It just seems so irrational.
In Canada there are many places where you could buy cheap land and prosper far away from enemies.
There are better agricultural opportunities.
More water.
No rockets.
No shell shocked kids coming back into society once they leave the army.
Or at the very least, fewer.

My family came from England.
And while I would like to visit one day, I have lived there in spirit.
But I don't want to eat beans on toast every other day.
The Beatles, The Clash, not the Stones-see The Verve and the royalty story for Bittersweet Symphony.
They were my nursery rhymes and then they were my friends.

I do not want to live there.
Britain is a dust pile for most and comfortable for the few.
I thank God that my mother made it out before I was born.

Wherever you live and make your life is the Holy Land.
But really, it's not in England or Wales or Scotland-
Or Israel.

Actually, I believe Canada is the Holy Land.
For me and my family.

By the way, I think that I have enough things to worry about every day without moving to an arid patch of desert where there are millions of people who want to kill me.

I worry about my kids coming home from school.
The scumbags are a lot closer to home in Saskatoon than they were in Winnipeg.
Still getting used to that.

But rockets and bombs.
Why would I stick my head in that noose?

ah shaddup G...ferkrissakes...sometimes even YOU must know you gotta break some MORE egs to remake the omelette...

and why give up on Blighty(greatest country on earth yet idn't ?)

...it's early innings yet sweety......try to keeep a stiff upper dearie....(and i don't mean yur dental plate or your shoe leather)

Hey "Smart Guy" see if you figure this out.

0
BA
MA
PHD

Your Answer Please?

Hey "Smart Guy", can you figure this out?

0
---
BA
MA
PHD

Your Answer Please?

There is absolutely no such thing as an essential or historic right to a land. To say that Israel now, ought to belong to 'the Jews' because some of their ancestors lived there, along with other peoples, several thousand years ago, is invalid.

After all, there were peoples living there before the Jews. So, how far back do you go before claiming 'it's yours'?

And is you insist on your argument, then, all of America ought to be handed over to the indigeneous 'first peoples' who were indeed here, long, long, long before any Europeans. Therefore, using your logic, this land is theirs.

Land and nation ownership of land is a political decision and not an inherited or essential right.

Ramon Daily - I suggest you read further into the Bakan abstract rather than cherry pick. As for the second quote, it's fundamentally a reasonable statement. Remember that zionism is a political agenda, not a religious one, and indeed, is rejected by quite a number of religious Jews. Read further into the abstracts and you'll see that this conference is intelligent, serious and hardly a polemic for either side.

I still don't see how people can say that the Jews had that land carved out for them in 1948 and became Israel. Israel has been there since the start, that land belonged to them long before. The argument that palestinians need their own recognized country is a total load of the stuff most farmers would spread on their fields to help crops grow. There is a myth, it's called Palestine, and the people, palestinians. There is no such thing as a palestinian. They are Syrian, Jordanian, Egytian, Persian, and any other myriad of ME nationalaties. They are only there to gain world sympathy and push Israel into the sea. Pallywood, it's all a huge scam. Leave Israel be and I would highly recommend against trying to divide and quarter her... just ask the Syrian general what happened to his advance when he tried to come in to conquer. The result will be the same.

Rick from AB - you're kidding! Land, 'right from the start' (Adam and Eve start??) belonged to one religion? And the other peoples who were there, before them, of a different religion or tribe, were they there 'right from the start'? Do they have any rights to the land? No?

Since when does a land base bond to a religion?
Again, land is not an inherent right of any religion or ethnic group or 'race'. It's a political attribute and can change ownership over the years.

By the way, with your essentialist ideology, why aren't you promoting the sovereignty of natives over Canada and the USA? Did you know that at one time, there was no such thing as 'Canada'? Or the USA? Bet you didn't know that! Bet you didn't know that the Cree and Sioux and Iroquois and Huron..they were here long, long, long before the Europeans. Why aren't you promoting their essentialist right to this land? Well? Why the silence from you? Hmmm?

of course I knew that the natives were here before white man came, well there is an exception to that, they did find remains of a "white man" near a washington base that pre-dates others, but I don't have the time to search for a link at the moment. If you don't believe in God, then no, you won't believe that land can be given to a certain group, but again, ask anyone who has attempted to assault Israel and ask them, specifically that Syrian general, wish I could remember his name too. Nothing anyone does will change Israel because there is a higher power watching over it. Of course that'll draw a lot of flak, as my beliefs probably are not popular today, but I make no apologies.

Jennifer Lynch, I must disagree with you. I doubt very seriously that Kate has any insecurities about her education.

I've been reading SDA almost from its inception, and my view is that Kate could easily teach at a university level in many subjects.

Furthermore, no one on this thread has even mentioned how much time Kate may or may not have spent at a university.

You know, it's a well-known phenomenon in graduate school that as soon as a person reads 10 good books on some subjects, they automatically know more about those subjects than almost anyone else.

ET, please don't presume to know that I didn't read the entire Bakan abstract. Your assessment of the tenor of many of the abstracts struck me as rather misleading. The two examples I cited gave very direct parallels of Israel to apartheid. I fail to see the relevance of the distinction between a political agenda and a religious one.
Incidentally, I can count the number of times I have spoken out in defense of Israel with the fingers on one hand.