SuhWEEEEEET!

So if the greenies discover that they have been co-opted by big business especially corrupt big business like Enron are they going to abandon the green cause? Probably not they are enjoying too much power.

"[]and recognize that the biggest money interest of all in the climate change debate lies with those poised to cash in on the climate-change policies of Kyoto and its successors."

"Follow the money" is still the best advice around.

Joe wrote:
"So if the greenies discover that they have been co-opted by big business especially corrupt big business like Enron are they going to abandon the green cause? Probably not they are enjoying too much power."
Actually the problem is that the greenies and their dupes have invested too much emothitionally to abandon their new faith/religion.
Alarmism has long since attained all the hallmarks of a religion....with it's adherants willing to endure much hardship in it's cause......Protesting Global Warming in a blizzard....enduring frostbite to further the cause (Caitlin).

Everything we are seeing is the despicable side of human nature running wild and loose. Here is a clip that may go long way to splainin' why so much bad shit happens. Those of us who try to live and let live are being flushed and we should not be tolerant any longer. We should at least make some effort to regain our freedoms. It cannot be done at the ballot box. That game is over.

Tax Slavery

Climate-carbon-environmental guilt industry certainly is the swindle of the century. It isn't new by any stretch. And, as discussed in this article, it is not a meme driven by the grass roots or even the scientific community. This is a plunder of public wealth, on a global scale, perpetrated and driven by the global financial class to profiteer in new unofficially traded commodity markets (water, land use, air, carbon).

The first mention of a global economic elite bilking the free world middle class under a contrived environmental guilt premise, was in the Club of Rome's 1991 global public policy paper; "The First Global Revolution".

In this revealing manifesto for global wealth redistributing, the global elite lay out a blue print for escaping the financial collapse of old limited capitalist markets by creating new ones which are derived from laying the guilt for their resource wasting, polluting military-industrial complex at the feet of the consumer then taxing and inverting ownership under that guilt to finance their new industrial complex and put vast amounts of private and publicly owned land at their disposal - all with the help of flunky government leaders.

A good read: http://tinyurl.com/5fq2q8

This impetus for new growth industries predicated on manufactured guilt and global crisis spawned the global governance movement. Global governance responds to the fabricated climate and resource crisis by pandering the need for monumental subordination of nation-state sovereignty (and individual freedom) to a centralized global regulatory authority. The new global governing meme was justified and laid out in manifestos such as the Earth charter, UN Agenda 21, global village-united world anti-sovereignty movements, numerous elite NGO sustainability papers and the new carbon banking (cap and trade) network.

A good accounting here:
http://green-agenda.com/index.html

So the reality is the last thing this was started by was grubby hippies chaining themselves to old growth trees. This is a product of the most manipulative elite financial forces in global markets. They will plunder the population's private wealth to fund the new financial-industrial complex they are building.

Have you ever seen those massive swarms of fish that, each existing as an individual, still move as one great mass in self-organized swarms? Bird flocks? Herds of wildebeest?

It's the same thing with human populations. An idea of behaviour will emerge; it may at first be small, but a critical threshold may be reached and almost on its own, a massive movement based on that idea becomes dominant in the population.

Naturally the economic processes of that same population will link to this ideology. The economic processes of that population are, after all, part of the whole society.

So, no economic process could survive if it tried to live within an economy that denied this population's wishes.

My point is that it isn't simply the 'greed' of the individual economic agents, i.e., the corporations, big business etc. It's the wish of the majority of the population to 'go green'. Whether the population's wishes are based on reason, fact etc is not the point.

And I'd say that the original 'true ideologists' are now feeling quite marginal as their ideas are not valued for any facts or logic but have instead, moved into the general economy. That's how societies operate.

ET: "My point is that it isn't simply the 'greed' of the individual economic agents, i.e., the corporations, big business etc. It's the wish of the majority of the population to 'go green'."

>> ET numerous programs, polling and rejected proposed policies, have proven beyond doubt that the geberal polulation's support for "green" is only lip sevice. When going green comes with a substantial price tag, the support drops to near zero.

This is why the corporate-financial interests who drive the green wealth+power shift are instilling green taxing and surcharge by stealth, a sort of commerce skimming done out of sight of the consumer. This was the main thrust of the article. The green guilt tax is now a major factor in inflation and COL and it was accomplished in a very unilateral clandestine way. Those that directly benefit from the revenues are a small elite who are building alternate markets in which they are oligarchic players.

Obama doesn't seem to be doing anything by stealth anymore. He is so confident that he is a much loved Dear Leader that he will put in Cap and Trade and Socialized health care, bail our just about anyone with a pulse who vote liberal while the economy goes down the toilet and wealth creators leave the country in droves.

But then that's all part of the plan isn't it?

" Those that directly benefit from the revenues are a small elite who are building alternate markets in which they are oligarchic players."

Exactly !! All made possible by our beloved Dumbed-Down Media and Air Head Hollywood among others.

And the people always want to be 'in-sytle' - no matter how dumb the idea; Big tail fins, high heels, green through guilt, long hair, short hair, ........

Ron,

I always marvel at the teen-ager who wants to be different and get a tattoo ... like everyone else.

voltaire's bastard - I agree; the majority don't want to 'go green' IF but only if it includes a hefty (and I mean 'hefty') price tag. But they still want to 'go green', if it coats them in what is now an ethical aura of 'caring for'....

I disagree with your statement that it's "the corporate-financial interests who drive the green wealth+power shift are instilling green taxing and surcharge by stealth, a sort of commerce skimming done out of sight of the consumer".

Such a perspective is the typical scenario of The Evil Capitalist versus the Hapless Consumer. This is a leftist perspective of capitalism.

My point is that a movement for a particular perspective, in this case, 'green' emerged in the periphery of our society. That's where all new perspectives emerge, in the periphery. Most remain there. Some move into the dominant perspective, as the Green Shift has done. How did it move? By stealth? By Evil Capitalists? No.

By a kind of spreading 'algae movement' where a perspective takes hold, for various grassroots reasons - and it does so, not driven by some higher authority but within the system itself. So, more people became interested in health foods (witness the spread of such stores); the Internet proved an indispensable communication system. We get the spread of alternate medicines. Then, we get a few well-publicized weather events. Then it moves into the sciences, and climate and of course, the ideological fervour of academia..and so on.

Therefore, the economy, which is an integral part of a society, MUST operate within this paradigm. So, it too moves with this perspective.

And you get all the supermarkets with their 'organic produce'; their 'no plastic bags'. You get produce advertised as 'environment friendly'. Then, you get cities moving into recycling of waste, which is primarily an economic measure.

And then, you get the economic scams moving in, as we humans will do in every society, whether communist or capitalist. So, you get Al Gore and his making himself a multimillionaire; Suzuki and his scams. Cap and trade and Kyoto, which is a UN scam and so on.

My point is that this is NOT an agenda run by Evil Capitalists out for money. It is instead, a quite normal process of how an ideological paradigm moves into a society, becomes dominant, and moulds societal behaviour among all sectors of the population. This includes ardent ideological believers who feel emotionally strong only when they are embedded in a 'cause'. It includes the followers who simply want to 'be good'. It includes the scammers who want to exploit. But it's NOT just the Evil Capitalists out for a buck. It's human behaviour.

ET,

Good analysis, but I would state that governments by their nature are evil or are destined to become so. That too is human nature.

If there actually was a superman, he would be unlikely to be benevolent, he doesn't need to be, he is all powerful and there is not deterrent to indulging even the most base of needs or desires.

Governments operate as 'supermen'. They have almost no deterrent to treating their populations anyway they desire once the population is properly conditions and or disarmed.

If we are to have a viable society at all, it is imperative that the government fear and respect it's population, anything else is slavery.

Didn't they use to tell us that all the research that said that global warming wasn't for real could be discounted because it was financed by the oil industry?

I agree with ET. Corporations will give you what you want..for a price. As the politics go so the corporations go. Once they have invested heavily in doing the research required they have little choice than to ride the wave. GE comes to mind. They have been recruiting the cream of the crop to come up with better methods of power generation. Free Ivy League tuition and guaranteed jobs for the best. As the threat of carbon taxes by any name one chooses is coming, they invested heavily in wind power and nuclear.
So have most of the big oil companies. Once the momentum has hit critical, it doesn't even matter if it makes sense anymore. It is just good business.

Hello Birdy, yes, that's a famous Jefferson quote:

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

The key to the government fearing the people is multileveled elections, as in the US, where different levels of government are elected at different times...and that vital Freedom of Speech. And a focus on the importance of the individual as a key agent in society; no immersion of the individual in group identities which muzzles questions and thought.

ET,

I don't think we can vote our way to a sensible solution and regain our freedoms. That game is passed. Elections are now only a sham. You vote for Hose A or Hose B. They both hosers.

I couldn't disagree with you more, ET.
Go ahead and apologize for a bunch of crooked capitalists if you want. You'll never convince me with your long winded excuses. Free enterprise is about serving the interests of people. It’s not about devising schemes to steal people’s wealth without providing them with anything and without them knowing it.
You want a world were anything goes, a world were ripping off everyone is okay?

Main Stream Media, aka MSM, is complicit in the AGW criminal fraud.

May the MSM die a thousand deaths.
…-

“Media Myth: Networks Ignore Trillion-Dollar Price Tag of Climate Cap Bill

Waxman-Markey cap-and-trade bill leaves committee while ABC, CBS, NBC remain silent.

The media love to fret over global warming, but now that a trillion-dollar scheme to address global warming could be just around the corner the networks have been curiously quiet.

On May 21, the House Energy and Commerce Committee passed a bill to cap carbon emissions and create an artificial trading market. The network news media didn’t mention it, but critics say the legislation would be a “huge threat to American prosperity and freedom.”

The Heritage Foundation estimates that this bill, known as Waxman-Markey, would cost $9.6 trillion in GDP loss and over a million jobs by 2035, but the network news media ignored the bill and almost never explained the cap-and-trade policy it seeks to enact.

ABC, CBS and NBC didn’t mention passage of the Waxman-Markey bill or discuss cap-and-trade over Memorial Day weekend, despite a global summit about climate change that took place in Copenhagen May 24-26. That summit was in preparation for a December U.N. convention to create a global plan of action regarding climate change.

The three networks have mentioned cap-and-trade in only 13 stories between Jan. 20 and May 25 even though it is a top priority for Obama, who said in November “few challenges” are “more urgent than combating climate change.” Nearly all (9 out of 13) instances were on the Sunday talk shows which have much smaller audiences than evening newscasts.”
http://www.businessandmedia.org/articles/2009/20090527141451.aspx

Global warming hits North Bay Ontario today.

Snow

"Hah - Bourgeois Lysenkoism"

There are times when I miss the Communists...

This is shaping up to be a good expose.

An inconvenient expose.

Enron tainting the climate change industry. This can't be good news for Al Gore, for he hates it when inconvenient REAL truths come out and make his job all that much harder and make him go all unhinged...

With all due respect to this man, Kate has been the number one exposer of the climate change and Global Warming scam(s) and frauds - and sda has been done it scientifically, from the bottom up. Kate, with help and facts from her many knowledgeable commentators, has never deviated; she has exposed the schemers in their naked greed right from the beginning of this hoax. SDA has exposed the sham temperature indicators, the hullabaloo about the 'shrinking' ice caps, the phony data....it is all here in the archives. Any ding dongs who actually ever questioned why the weather was not being bossed around by the Coalition of Traitors (Puffins/Dippers/Blocheads) and the msm soon began to question the credibility of their 'heros', if they stopped and read a few common sense facts here at the hub of 'lets not be duped again by politicians and special interests groups who want all of our money, our Liberty and our minds' people.

The real problem is pollution (as our Prime Minister and President Bush have both stated): the filth being pumped into the water systems - pharmaceuticals in the systems of humans and animals flushed into recycling plants - most notably the birth control pill and sex enhancements that deform natural life, fertilizers that are not natural soil ingredients, clear cutting (Dippers in bed with forestry cos allowed low stumpage fees and clear cutting for union member's votes), BIG feedlots that keep animals in hell for all their lives instead of 'liberating' crown property and collectives to individual farmers and ranchers for free rage happy animals and domestic birds (imagine the life that an calf lives born in manure and standing knee deep in crowed conditions lives verses and calf who is born in grass and can run flat out if he feels like it, in a big field)- and making BIG lots available to urban dwellers so they can have a garden and a clothes line, allowing farmers and ranchers to sell their own products to the public at farmer's markets (get rid of the CWB), the people of this country are being attacked by the government in every nook and cranny of our lives; we get overwhelmed and bury our heads in the sand of denial and forget our common sense.

My advice: read sda and listen to Glen Beck - you will get your mind and heart out of chaos and disorder and take back your power as an individual citizen instead of being a gov't brainwashed,controlled peon. Once your soul calls foul to the agendas of those who hate people, we are on our way back to having a brilliant future here in this beautiful country.

Hello Birdy - I'll disagree. I continue to place my faith in human beings, acknowledging not merely their irrational emotionalism and bad will but also their rational empiricism and good will.

So I don't think that elections, which are, after all, an expression of both sides of our nature, are useless. We do get to express our opinions. But above all, I focus on blogs and the Internet. This media system has really given Power back to the people.

Blame Crash - I have no interest in convincing you of anything. You've come up with the astonishing statement that 'free enterprise is about serving the interests of people'; this is a basic socialist leftist perspective.

Free enterprise is about serving the interests of the free entrepreneur. Period. Absolutely nothing to do with 'serving the interests of people'.

IF the enterprise as carried out by this individual entrepreneur is not wanted by the people, then, they won't buy his services or products. End of story. And people might be taken in, for a short period, by a scammer, (found in all societies) but I rely on the basic common sense of people, which you don't. People will eventually realize they are being scammed.

Jema54 - yes, I fully agree. The real problem is pollution, which the AGW nits ignore. Harper has focused extensively on pollution, with millions towards cleaning up the Great Lakes, other lakes in various provinces, installing new waste treatment and sewage plants in towns all across Canada, cleaning up rivers etc.

george w, hero to the rabid right wing, tried to get mr enron a.k.a. ken lay appointed as secretary of energy or whatever.

with friends like that . . .

Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. There is a rumour going 'round that there was snow on the ground in Northern Ontario this morning. Hope no one died from climate change.

"Radha, a tough, sinewy widow and the only female farmer here,"

The elite political classes have become dealers in Death.

See the trigger-fingers at the ready here to defend
"Gujarat's chief minister Narendra Modi [who] admits carbon credits can be a 'good business opportunity'".
...-

"The great carbon credit con: Why are we paying the Third World to poison its environment?

In the fields around this giant chemicals factory in Gujarat, the barren soil smells of paint stripper and the water from the well makes you gag.

So why has it been given tens of millions of pounds of taxpayer-funded UN ‘green reward points’, which are traded hungrily on the financial markets at huge profit?"
urlm.in/cnrm (DailyMailUK)

"Such a perspective is the typical scenario of The Evil Capitalist versus the Hapless Consumer"

Reactionary and blind naiveté.

The demand economy was centered around the will of the consumer, the laissezfaire capitalist system catered to the consumer-end user. Populist direct democracy built a governing system that bent to the will of thew people but protected the rights of the individual. Big government and corporatism do not.

They are oligarchic and monopolistic in nature and relate to each other very well. They want to control and restrict the consumer and limit competition. They want to own every horse in the race and have once party dictate the will of the elite monority. When feudal corporatism meets big government we have an end to free market capitalism -consumerism and democratic freedom,- we have fascism - as we now do in green economics, green policy making and sustainability legislating. All subvert property ownership, confiscate private wealth and create command economic legislating. All rely on big government and command systems.

The end result of this nearly 100 years if governing-corporate insest has been the destruction of truly free inclusive markets, a reduction in the wealth of the middle class, loss of individual freedom and property rights, a democratic system with parties which never differ on elite agendas and an expanded command economy.

For over 100 years it is not the consumer who has demanded what corporate and government forces "give us". Since Edward Bernays and Carrol Quigley's ruling class shadow governing class, we are GIVEN our culture, leaders, public policies and social trending by an entrenched super class. An establishment public policy and media junta mated to a protected corporate oligarchy who profit on culture and policy creation through mass public indoctrinating. It's called "demand creation".

http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/1999Q2/bernays.html

Obama's demand was created. Going "green" was demand created as so much trending is. The school of fish analogy is not applicable in these days of culture and demand creation.

Re: Demand creation and the green agenda:

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society," Bernays argued. "Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. . . . In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons . . . who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind."
“If one understands that socialism is NOT a share the wealth plan but a politically actuated plan to consolidate power and control a nation’s wealth, then the paradox of super rich men promoting socialism becomes no paradox at all. Instead it becomes logical, even the perfect tool for wealthy power-seeking megalomaniacs.

- (Dr. Edward L Bernays, nephew to Sigmund Freud and father of modern psychological marketing AKA PR)

voltaire's bastard - nope, I disagree with you. I'd consider your view stuck in the old leftist view of Evil Corporations and Conspiracy Theories.

What you, and the esteemed Bernay (and I can't stand Freud) and Carroll Quigley and his 'secret societies' are missing is that the normal structure of a society is bileveled. There is necessarily a collective consciousness, a commonality of beliefs and behaviour that enables stability...along with the diversity and destabilizing force of individual beliefs and behaviour.

Both levels - the stabilizing commonality and the destabilizing individualism, are necessary in a progressive society. And these two levels may well contradict each other, with the collective moving to restrain and constrain while the individual fights for change.

You might notice that societies that have no capacity to change and adapt place primary emphasis on the commonality.

Corporations are part of the commonality; they, for example, enable the spread of a technology or lifestyle or consumer product etc across space - so, you get the automobile, the computer, supermarkets etc...all of which would be impossible to spread to the consumer via small independent businesses.

Naturally they want to control competition; so does small business. There's nothing subversive or reprehensible about this. How do you deal with it? By insisting on free competition, by disabling unions which prevent free competition.

If you get unions, businesses and government all colluding together, that's corruption, and can occur in any size of business. Nothing to do with 'Evil Corporations'.

I don't agree with the term 'feudal corporatism' and I also disagree with your definition of fascism, which seems to merely consist of authoritarianism. That's not a valid definition of fascism, in my view, which must include a utopian perspective of a past purity of a commonality.

Your outline of subversion of private property etc is valid for all types of authoritarian non-democratic governments, including socialism and communism.

I also don't agree with your idea of 'demand creation'. You know, it isn't that easy to brainwash an entire population. You seem to think it is, but it takes a LOT of top down authoritarian energy to prevent that second level, the individual level, from surfacing. Especially in this era of the Internet, of blogs, of rapid information transfer.

Most certainly, the left, i.e., the Democratic and Liberal/NDP parties are elitist and set themselves up as superior in knowledge, wisdom and authority. But, that doesn't mean that our beliefs and behaviour are entrapped within their voices.

A society is more complex than your conspiracy theme outlines. Both Bernay and Quigley's themes are quite frankly, mechanical outlines, for they focus only on one level of the societal structure, the common, and define it as controllable, and reject the individual level.

I happen to disagree with your reductionist view.

Don't think that the public, or any company, demanded the outlawing of the incandescent light bulb. In fact, if the consumers (the public in general) really wanted CFL's there would be no need to ban any other form of bulbs.

There is no grassroots - just a few nutbars in organizations like the EPA/NASA and their environut buddies.

Good one Jema54.

Re: Jema54's comment @ May 31, 3:50 pm-"....allowing farmers and ranchers to sell their own products to the public at farmer's markets (get rid of the CWB), the people of this country are being attacked.....".
Wow! I have always appreciated reading your posts and thoughtful opinions, but really, hey, maybe give it a rest. There's not a lot of (international) trade of wheat and barley being done at the local farmer's market.
Jema54, in an earlier thread today concerning the CWB implied that the system was open to grading abuse (which it certainly is, except for safeguards imposed by the Canadian Grain Commission), but that threat is there with or without the Canadian Wheat Board.
Once indoctinated, keep shouting the mantra, some people fall for it.
Personally, I am directly involved, I have a stake in the matter. I know there are instances where the Board might not have served me as well as I might have wished, but by and large I feel it has been a benefit. Those who are of the opinion that the private (open) traders are so altruistic are in for a rude awakening if and when that time comes.

Why do you scoff at local markets, Snagglepuss? Do you also scoff at local industry involving grain products: like pasta plants, flour mills, linen cloth plants, linseed oil plants, canola plants....farmers would grow more consumer products like carrots and potatoes IF they could sell such products for a profit. In the Yukon California cherries are $7.00 a pound; B.C. cherries are left to rot on the ground because local supermarkets will not buy them (even though they are much better tasting) and the Cherry tree owners cannot even give away the excess Cherries they cannot use themselves. Grass fed beef is 10 times as good as the hormone stuffed feedlot cattle we eat in Canada, yet Ranchers who sell grass fed beef do not get a huge premium on their on the hoof cattle - and we do not label beef as grass fed or grain fed - and the best beef is shipped out of the country at huge profit to the cattle buyer but no extra for the grower.

We cannot build ourselves a log house using trees from Crown land but the big companies like mac Blowdel sell premium lumber cheap to China and USA (with low stumpage fees to encourage shipping outside Canada)then we pay a big price for finished products to build clapboard, chipboard houses and furniture.

In the Yukon, Yukon Nevada (owned by China!) can mine for gold and silver (and use Chinese slave labour) but Canadians have to leap through too many hoops (greenie hoops) to make any profit mining on Canadian claims.

Why do people like you want to be controlled by an outfit like the CWB? Why do you think eastern farmers do not want the CWB? Why do you think the malt (beer) producers buy western grain from eastern farmers? Do you like the fact that eastern farmers can sell their produce at such a good price that they can purchase superior western produce for a lesser price and then resell that produce for a double profit? Do you like being a doormat?

Jema54- I do not scoff at local markets, I endorse them, in fact.
What I was pointing out was the non-sequiter in regard to your statement "...allowing farmers and ranchers to sell their own products to the public at farmer's markets(get rid of the CWB)....", as if the CWB was preventing him from selling his potatoes or his eggs or his ribsteaks to the local customer, OR that the farmer's market was made inaccessible (by the CWB) for his huge production of wheat and barley, which logically would never be marketed there anyway. That's all.
The examples you listed- sure, they don't make sense, but some politician or bureaucrat was playing ruler in his own little fiefdom which allowed that to happen.
Why would maltsters buy western malt barley from eastern farmers who bought it from the CWB, when they can get it directly from the western farmer through the Board in the first place (and logically at a lower price) and cut out the layers of middlemen? That makes no sense at all. As a malt barley producer, I know there are strict specs as to quality, variety purity, etc and a maltster would not buy barley unless it was identity-preserved, and the only way to ensure that is to access at the producer level.
Have a good day.

you actually only know this if you have a functioning brain.