Seems typical, nothing will come of it.

The legal basis for torture under US law is that it is a crime of specific intent. You have to prove that the intent was to cause pain and injury; that the person intended to torture. On this basis, it is clear that the CIA personnel or whoever was involved in the enhanced interrogation cannot be convicted of the crime of torture under US law.

This is barring some activist judge rewriting the law on the fly. Of course, that is a two edged sword, because their side will not be in charge forever. One day that precedent will come back to hurt them.

it's not torture, it's waterboarding.
perhaps if he could have worn his "Che-shirt", the response would have been different?

I read Hitchen's account of w/b'ing last year and he categorically labelled it as torture.

I can't see the video from this PC, but if memory serves, he had pros do it just as they did it over there. And even though he was ready for it, and had a prearranged 'terminate' signal ready to go, he only lasted seconds. And he didn't even get a chance to use the signal because the 'interrogaters' knew he was close to panic.

Thinking that he knew what to expect, he asked for a do-over: same thing.

So, I accept that it's a tough technique but I don't accept that it's not alright for us to use on the baddies. This war on man-made-disasters (O-trademark) is asymetrical and therefore, the rules of symetrical war must be dispensed with.

Judge the value of a society by it actions in times of peace, not when it's defending itself from tyranny.

It MUST be torture, with emasculating side effects.

Obviously water boarding turns right wing talk jocks into simpering publicity whores to whom Keith Olbermann makes sense.

What a horrid thing to do to someone. Torture for sure.

Seems odd that the MSM does not want to chose who would perform the "experiment". A quick charter flight to some exotic third world destination or cab ride to obtain the participation of "Mistress Karin, By Appointment Only" should not be much of a challenge to with it media movers and shakers who know everything.

If they were waterboarding NYT journalists I'd volunteer and pay my own expenses to boot.

For that matter, I bet you'd clean up in an eBay auction for charity.

Christopher Hitchens should subject himself to conventional methods of torture that involve cutting, piercing, hacking and breaking-of-bones and then make a comparison between that and waterboarding.

I think we should demand a "do over"

Why don't we just use a taser on baddies. They are legal to use in the US and Canada. Maybe continuous jolts would get them talking...

That said can we vote for a celebrity we want to see waterboarded...

Hope Olberman still has to pay the 10 grand to charity. Actually I hope he has to double it..kind of a stupid and naive tax.

Waterboarding isn't torture.

This is torture:
http://www.medievality.com/flaying-torture.html

A list of real torture methods:
http://www.medievality.com/torture.html

Gawker's Cajun Boy wrote "we can't help from feeling as though we, along with a host of others, have been duped by a cheap publicity stunt."

It is a cheap publicity stunt, to be sure, but in the current zeitgeist it's also evidence of something broader and more serious: Shafran's email -- "(it) would be great if (those who perform the fake waterboarding) could dress in fatigues..." -- is just one more small example of the sort of trace-level cultural sedition that's currently in vogue since this administration took office. It's always done blithely, of course.

Not surprised that this sort of "stunt" would air on MSNBC.

I find it strange that so many are lining up to be "tortured" via waterboarding, but not lining up to have their bones broken, testicles cut off, skin burned, fingers dislocated or crushed, and all sorts of things shoved up their arse ... I suppose it's because waterboarding is so much more "torturous" that they want to feel the real thing.

Truly, some days I wonder if our Western civilization deserves to survive. Decadence must cause the degeneration of brain cells.

Hell I would agree to be Water Boarded if in return I can bury MSNBC's Gobberman in nice soft sand right up to his worthless neck...

A laugh a minute watching the Shit head panic and his heart explode!

Anything to do with MSNBC should be immediately suspect. Especially but not limited to, Keith Olbeman.

Some of you will be familiar with MSNBC 'political commentator' Lawrence O'Donnell. I feel embarrased when I see or hear him, because while unrelated, we share a last name.

He purports to be an expert and pontificates on all things political, especially that which can be used to slag the former Bush government.

One of his 'themes' is the criminal use of waterboarding for which in believes the Bush/Cheney administration should be brought to trial.

I'd urge you to listen to Hugh Hewitt's very entertaining and enlightening podcast which can be found here:

http://townhall.com/talkradio/show.aspx?radioshowid=5

The specific show is currently #5 H2 Lawrence O'Donnell with Hugh Hewitt.

On Hugh radio program, Lawrence cites several instances of U.S. soldiers having been prosecuted for the use of waterboarding, suggesting that if a common soldier can be prosecuted, then surely those who command them to do so should also be prosecuted.

For those who can't or don't want to listen, here's a little of the dialogue.

Hewitt: "Did you mean for waterboarding?" He then asks for specifics: "Who? When?"

O'Donnell: "Uhm, I don't know, it's a.... I think it's ah (long pause) umm, I dunno, I. I. I can't you know, I know that we've done it... I don't have the research in front of me to say exactly when we prosecuted who for it, in which conflict. I'll get the internet fired up and find it for you".

Hewitt: "For waterboarding specifically"

O'Donnell: "Sure."

Hewitt came back later, after researching the cases cited by O'Donnell, which he (O'Donnell) took from Wikipedia no less. O'Donnell was unembarrassed that as a 'serious journalist' he uses Wikipedia as a source. Hewitt illustrated that O'Donnell's Wikipedia citation was not waterboarding, but rather something called the 'water cure' which involves causing prisoners to ingest vast amounts of water and then beating their distended stomachs and bladder - clearly torture.

More interestingly, because they were discussing waterboarding in the context of terrorism and Hewitt wants to understand O'Donnell's background knowledge, Hewitt asks O'Donnell: "Have you read the 'Looming Tower' yet?"

O'Donnell: "No".

Hewitt then asks, "what was the last book you read on terrorism?"

O'Donnell's response: "I don't think I've read a book about terrorism".

Hewitt: "Ever?"

O'Donnell: "Nooo", said in a drawn out hesitant voice.

Hewitt: "About Al Queda?"

O'Donnnell: "No".

Hewitt: "About, how about the mullahs in Iran?"

O'Donnell: "No".

Hewitt: "I, I'm just stunned!"

O'Donnell: "Well I'll tell ya, I'm, I read Bob Woodward's book about the accounts inside the Bush administration from what they were doing from the day they got sworn in, okay."

Hewitt: "You've never read a book about terrorism?"

O'Donnell: "There is no, there is absolutely no evidence, and I defy you..."

Hewitt: "Larry! You've never read a book about terrorism?"

O'Donnell: "... to point me to a citation, one memo or one meeting that Dick Cheney..."

Hewitt: "Larry, I gotta go lie down."

O'Donnell: "...where he says anything about Al Queda.

Hewitt: "Larry, I gotta go lie down, I really do!"

Hewitt: "Do you really think you're a well informed NBC, by MSNBC standards, do you think you're above the grade of people on that network?"

O'Donnell: "That's a trick question, Hugh!".

The part that I don't get is the concern being shown for the person being water boarded. This is not done to our friends. This is done to our enemies and it works just fine.

Putting wimps in charge of the military is a sure way to end up with a fighting force that isn't allowed to have real bullets, only blanks.

I find it strange that so many are lining up to be "tortured" via waterboarding, but not lining up to have their bones broken, testicles cut off, skin burned, fingers dislocated or crushed, and all sorts of things shoved up their arse ... I suppose it's because waterboarding is so much more "torturous" that they want to feel the real thing.

Truly, some days I wonder if our Western civilization deserves to survive. Decadence must cause the degeneration of brain cells.
Posted by: Paul at May 29, 2009 2:48 PM

Thank you, Paul. You summed it up better than I ever could.

I like the reference to NBC's "gas tank guy", a true Mythbusters event.

Dateline NBC aired an investigative report about General Motors pickup trucks allegedly exploding upon impact during accidents due to poor design of fuel tanks. Dateline's film showed a sample of a low speed accident with the fuel tank exploding. In reality, Dateline NBC producers had rigged the truck with remotely detonated explosives. The program did not disclose the fact that the accident was staged. GM investigators studied the film, and discovered that smoke actually came out of the fuel tank a split-second before impact. GM subsequently filed an anti-defamation lawsuit against NBC after conducting an extensive investigation. On February 18, 1993 GM conducted a highly publicized (view broadcast in 1993 section of GM 1990s history) point-by-point rebuttal that lasted nearly two hours after announcing the lawsuit. The lawsuit was quickly settled by NBC, and Jane Pauley read an apology on the program.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dateline_NBC#General_Motors

See also 'Runaway Audi 5000' and 60 Minutes (CBS) for more MSM obfuscation and clueless scare-mongering:

http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/4.33.html#subj7

I can see Hitchens wussing out right away but Mancow? I now this isn't politically correct us he shall now be known as GirlyCow.

I think they should waterboard Ohlbermann until he admits that he's an idiot douchebag.

If this water boarding torture keep's up some misguided, misunderstood and marginalized person is going to catch a really really really nasty sinus infection... which may require penicillin.

It's not torture if it's used against our enemies.

It's not torture if it's used against [suicidally homicidal non-citizens].

There, fixed.