Amazing. All the complex engineering required to achieve these MPG goals and all done so easily with the stroke of the Messiah's pen.

Why is the comparison always the cost of one car vs. total US gasoline consumption? Isn't that like comparing grains of sand to planetary systems?

Somehow we, lowly Europeans, managed to survive with 1.1-1.4 liter engines, where 1.5 and above was always considered a sports car.

It was funny to arrive in North America and find that your Corolla and VW Golf have 1.8 liter at the very least. You guys are agreeable to pay extra several thousands of dollars for big engines? Good for you!

How you drive actually contributes even more to how much you pay for gas. If I drive Honda Accord at 100, it uses 6.9 l/100 kmh. Same car at 110 uses 7.4 liters. Your speeding costs us all money.

Obama is a jerk, but high price of gas is not his fault.

"That official said the cost would be recovered through savings at the pump for consumers and if gas prices follow government projections."

The Obama administration has been so accurate on all of their "projections" thus far that I can't possibly see what could go wrong. I think I'll start spending my projected savings now... NOT!!!

I love that word... "if". As in "if" the fools hadn't elected Obama the _________ would look so much better. (Fill in any damn word you wish and you have a 95.8% chance of being correct)

Cars are for rich people.

Pay attention, Aaron. In those US states in which gasoline consumption has fallen, they're moving to "per miles driven" taxation.

The promises of lower energy costs through conservation are never realized because governments rely on consumption for tax revenues.

As soon as revenues begin to dry up, they find new ways to "fund the shortfall".

Uh, lowly European - when I lived in Germany, I didn't see too many people driving 100 km/h. (And that's not only in Germany.) I also didn't see too many 1.1 liter engines, and I don't know anyone who would consider greater than 1.5 liters the definition of a sports car.

But, you're right, Obama is a jerk.

"Somehow we, lowly Europeans, managed to survive with 1.1-1.4 liter engines"

That's because you all live cheek by frigging jowl! Lack of population density means we can't afford the transit or inter-city rail options that Europe has. So for us a FUNCTIONING car (WINTER as well as Summer!) is a necessity, not an amusement.
Over there 100k is an epic journey...here for many it's a short commute. Little 1.1 litre sh!tboxes aren't going to cut it in those circumstances, not by a damn sight.

And to think that he is going to do all this with no input from any country but the USA. Just waiting for him to ban the blackberry as it is canadian, and perhaps they should quit using the Canada Arm in their space flights.
I can't believe the american voter will sit and let all this happen to their country.
I think his idea of how may barrels of oil will be saved is as out to lunch as global warming is.
How many jobs and taxes will be lost with the loss of all that oil production. What does he plan to do with it. Of course if you don't need oil you don't need drilling and refining.
Back to whale oil for you all.

Wow. Good thing the automakers are so outrageously profitable and in such good financial shape they can afford extra costs. I'd hate to think we'll have to bail them out. I mean, it's not like the automakers have suffered from expensive, contradictory government regulation thus far...

For Canada, boidiesel is as practical as that other California wet dream...hideaway wind-shield-wipers.......good luck with either at -40 and snow. At -40 you can carry propane in a bucket...

I was so disatisfied with the products I bought the whole industry. - B Obama President Car Club for Governments

Aaron, is our speeding that costs you money, or is it the life-sucking socialistic governments in europe taxing the life out of everything including petrol?

If you are not going to explore or drill for oil there will always be high prices because you will never be fuel efficient enough.

"Obama is a jerk, but high price of gas is not his fault."

Lets see now. What have been and what are his Democrats in favor of that may have or would have affected the price of gasoline

Dems policy;

Allow Saddam freedom to control all of the Middle East. Check.

Allow the eco-fascists the power to restrict oil exploration in the US. Check.

Allow severe enviro regulations to restrict the building of new refineries - to the point of no new ones being built the last couple of decades. Check.

Allow the EPA to declare an essential gas a pollutant. Check.

Allow eco-nuts and the media the freedom to promote restrictions on Canadian Oil Sands oil. Check.

Allow the world's Despots, Dictators and Communistic countries the freedom to take the lead in new oil discoveries. Check.

Allow Hugo Confiscate Chavez a free pass on the world stage. Check.

No, not Obama's fault - just happened to help allow a few things to happen. To the point that the world's oil reserves and refinery capacity is now only 10% controlled by "Big Oil". The rest is controlled by OPEC, Communist Regimes and State Oil Companies. Nice.

It's not about running out of oil, it is about running out of sane people.

"Bass, how low can you go? Death row, what a brother know?" Was Chuck D talking about Obama?

I'll keep repeating myself. Americans asked for this(we didn't)! Obama clearly said: "Under my plan of a cap and trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket."; and, Obama said "he will bankrupt the coal industry".

I keep hearing on the news and from pundits that "Americans want more government" but I never hear anyone object to this statement except the usual suspects. I agree, Americans want more government! I believe that Obama is exactly what Americans desire and his direction is the direction most Americans approve of. I don't prescribe to the theory that most Americans were unaware of Obama's past or future goals. That is a cop-out, Americans knew damn well what they were voting for when they put an X beside BO's name. They were voting for a "sugar daddy", someone who will take care of them so long as they do what they are told.

Aaron

If Europeans started drinking bottled water would you do that too? It is a wonder how leftards always point to the failing EU as an example to follow.

35.5 mpg !!??

That's easy. The Popular Science "Scientists" sitting in the arts lounges know all about the 'Super Carburetor'. Knew about it decades ago. They could never quite put their lily white fingers on it, but it must be around somewhere. Saw a guy on TV also and he said .....

Meanwhile the automotive Engineers were fooling around with fuel injection, catalytic converters, converter clutches, variable valve timing, ... you know - things that actually work.

Beware the state.

@Aaron

Could the lower displacement in European cars be related to the higher energy density of diesel? After all a 2.0L turbo diesel in a small car can be pretty sporty, but a 2.0L gas engine (without turbo) isn't particularly impressive.

I owned a 1.6 VW (all I could afford at first). It did not have a problem transporting 5 of us to and from the cottage with the trunk full of luggage. Not sure how many HP was left there after the previous owners who screwed up the carburetor, probably 60 out of 75. My buddy had 1.1 Golf, then sold it and bought 1.4 Golf and always complained that 1.1 had more pickup. Bottom line, it does not matter how many HP you have if all you need to do is get from pt. A to pt. B on a highway. Driving on a HW does not require a big engine.

There were smaller engines in circulation, like 0.9 liter. Saying 'I was in Europe and never saw small engines' you won't earn my trust - I lived there, while you were just a tourist. And I know full well how much attention you North American tourists pay to the engine size of the cars on the road - exactly 0.

I think the actual regulation will be 42 mpg (us gallons remember) for cars and 26 for light trucks. I think that's where the overall fleet average of 35 mpg comes from. If you want a look at the future for north american motorists go and find cars right now on the EPA website that have a combined 42 mpg. Not to put too crude a phrase on it but "gutless golfcarts" come to mind.

What's the other phrase that comes to mind? "We are all Europeans now" (living in cramped cold flats and tiny cars, if we can afford one at all).

Will American's embrace this new lifestyle without trucks (and therefore bass boats, fifth wheel RVs etc.)? I doubt it; they will throw the Democrats out once they realize what is happening.

Regards, BRK

Welcome to the Suzuki way of life.

Aaron, time to grow up. If you cannot string a logical argument together, best sit on the sidelines and watch.

Aaron, shut up. I've touristed in Europe several times and the engine sizes of the cars there are of interest, particularly while driving on the autostrada/bahn surrounded by massive truck traffic on the right and maniacs [you wish you could join] on the left.

Americans can at times act in a sheeplike manner and this may, unfortunately, be one of them. All they know is what TJ, Oprah and Catie tell them.

We here in the flyover states do at least retain a modicum of common sense. The jackass who parks his smart in the company garage continues the butt of all jokes as should be the case. A girlfriend of mine bought a mini-cooper which she says is unsafe on the interstate and unfit for snow. Imagine a smart in similar circumstances.

As I watch the cutesy electric cars buzz about Halifax, I can't help but notice that there are only one or perhaps two younger generation adults but no children, certainly no baby seat. You don't see the drivers loading it up with any more than two grocery sacks (recyleable of course)or trying to fit a BBQ, a 2x4, a flatscreen from Future shop or even a new recycle bin. They can't even get their canoes or kayacks moved with this trendy POS. And these roller skates still take up one whole parking space to boot.

Although my Mazda 3 gets me around in the land of $.99/litre gas, I still would die for a good pick-up truck that can tow my boat to the sea.

Aaron- A few weeks ago, my wife and I drove to Las Vegas and back. This is the equivalent of driving from Monaco to Scotland and back. We drove a car with a 2.4L turbocharged engine, and averaged just over 20 mpg (US), while maintaining a cruising speed of 80-85 mph. There are 2.0L, maybe 1.6-1.8L powered cars out there that will duplicate this performance, but not many that can do so and meet our needs.
20 some years back, our smaller car with a 2.2L, N/A engine would barely get this kind of mileage at a lower cruising speed. 75-80 was about the most you could reasonably cruise on the interstates back then. That 2.2 used to suck the headlights out of the omnipresent Rabbit GTI's that we routinely diced with on the way to the ski hills.
As one of the resident hard-core gearheads, I can tell you right now that there are not now, nor have there ever been 1.1L and 1.4L powered cars for sale in North America that broadly fills the demands of this marketplace. Small cars are a niche market. Americans and Canadians will buy a car to fit occasional needs, hence retired folks like my parents own a mini-van. People who go camping a few times a year, might buy a pick-up.
They don't necessarily buy these kinds of vehicles because fuel is cheap. After all, the price of the gasoline or the diesel is almost the same everywhere. The price of the taxes is higher elsewhere. In Europe, and to a lesser extent, Canada, that tax money is largely used to fund socialist ambitions and schemes that would otherwise fail if funded in a more transparent fashion. (i.e.- direct taxation and user fees). Europe's vaunted passenger rail network is largely funded by taxes on roads and motor fuel. In the USA, the gas and diesel cost just as much as it does in Europe, it's just that there are legal restraints on the ability of jurisdictions to tax motor fuel for purposes other than roads and related infrastructure.
It's also an engineering fact that given two cars with equal rolling resistance and aerodynamic qualities and differing engine sizes, both will get equivalent mileage at a given speed, and worth noting that 2 different acquaintances of mine have made the same trip as we did- Red Deer to Vegas- in a much larger Dodge Charger with the 5.7L Hemi, and at similar cruising speeds got better fuel economy than we did.

There's so much to hate about this. Where to start? How about Obama's press conference? All the conquered auto execs flanking el presidente. He gave his usual speech. Used the same old rhetoric to make it sound like he's done something of epic importance, first one to do it ever, unity, compromise, progress, etc.

About the added costs of only $1300 - who are they kidding? Especially if government pushes the auto industry to rely more on hybrids. They have always been expensive. And when we are all stuck in those little eco-friendly hybrids we'll be using less gasoline so government will raise the gas tax. They'll have to won't they, to recoup revenue they lose when Americans conserve or otherwise can't afford to drive so much.

People should be free to choose to drive big cars or trucks if they are willing to pay for them and the extra gas. Automakers should be free to develop and market products people want.

Yup Eurotrash all drive cars with small engines.

Like Land Rovers, Merc S's and BMW 7's. Yup, teeny-tiny stuff they make over there along side their Porches, Astons, Bentleys, Audies, Ferraris and Lambos.

Euros who drive small cars do so because their political class has taxed them into poverty and overpopulation in their cities has done the rest (even 3rd rate cities are expensive to live in there.) A parking spot in London will cost you more than a Lada is worth, comrades. And that's what you have to pay after Red Ken's fee just to enter the city.

Euros are no less prone to think green. This is the continent which pioneered the use of Man Kat military trucks as campers (some of which have 1000 litre gas tanks and get 6 mpg.)

You guys can argue all you want, but SOMEBODY is going to have to get out there and drive a shiny new Michellemobile that they're going to be paying for anyway, on all those shiny new shovel-ready freeways the Bamaman says he's going to throw their money at.

spend billions of taxpayers money to keep them alive and kill them with one stroke of the pen. f--king brilliant.

To make enough money to drive large engine car in Europe one has to make career first. Here you finish school and buy a Camaro.

As if I was expecting sympathy! Horrors - he wants to take away our gas guzzlers! Moron! Shut up!

My driving style is 1) legal and 2) saves me $200 a year that I can spend on the new skates and hockey sticks for the kids. You keep speeding - Canada is a free country.

"My driving style is 1) legal and 2) saves me $200 a year that I can spend on the new skates and hockey sticks for the kids. You keep speeding - Canada is a free country.

Posted by: Aaron "

Not if you had your way Aaron. If you could dictate that everyone did as you do with your "driving style" you would make it law, wouldn't you?

Obama is a jerk, but high price of gas is not his fault.

Posted by: Aaron at May 19, 2009 11:39 AM

--------------------------------------

Back in 2008 the high price was based on the bubble in credit and investments, demand was falling while the price was rising, the price did not fall until the market started correcting and investors pulled money out of oil futures. FYI with the production cuts the supply is 3% away from demand today, same as it was in July 2008..curious, no?

Obama is forcing Cap and Trade! He will also raise the Gas Tax on top of that to force people to buy his "Obama Picked it for you Cars"!

Cap and trade will add another 10% to car prices over and above the $1300 premium estimated. You CANNOT smelt metal with a solar panel! Rubber and Plastics ARE OIL!

So high gas prices will be his fault, even though demand easing due to higher MPG should cause a reduction in prices.

Also in case you have not noticed there bucko this ain't Europe.

Everyone is talking of cars, unfortunately 90% or more of my driving is done for work and no car is going to carry up to 5 garage doors on top of it.

Don't bitch at me when I raise your price for me to get to your house, nor bitch to anyone else that your itty bitty car can't haul a load of sh!#!!!

I too haul shit in the truck, sometimes 800 lb of it. As you justly noticed, this was about cars.

Indiana: How did you manage to not notice, that driving above speed limit is illegal, and not because of me?

It escapes me how you arrived at a conclusion that I am dictating something to somebody. The "conservatives" can't stand opinion different from theirs or are you a troll?

I love my Jetta TDI.....over 250,000 km and the engine runs pretty much the way it did when I bought it. Simpler.

But Diesels arent allowed in California in big numbers because of emissions.

Solving emissions and gas is a bigger problem. Solving mileage is easier, and you will see lots of Direct Injenction Diesel cars soon.

I am curious about Fords new EcoBoost. A direct injection gasoline car engine that promises similar mileage to a diesel with a better emissions profile.

I like Fords approach to all of this. The are using the concept of "S" curves with technology. There is more to be gained out of the existing technology still without making a big infrastructure shift. They are also working on Hybrids and Plug in electrics but they arent betting the farm on the new technologies.

Ford's is a more sustainable, smarter and more engineering based approach.

Thank goodness they arent owned byt the government. The patriotic, Canada or US thing to do is actually buy a ford. The smart thing to do is shop between Ford, VW and Toyota. three really smart car companies.

Aaron

What I'm trying to establish is that "you" have a problem with other peoples point of view. People here are content to let you drive how and what you want(on your dime), but your haughty attitude is indicative of someone that "knows better" and therefore is willing to force those that don't agree to comply for their own good.

If you prefer to do as you say(drive efficiently) then more power to you. What is in question is: do you feel it is necessary to cap the CO2 emissions from vehicles?

If your answer is "no", then my bad. If your answer is "yes" then you prove my point.

The patriotic, Canada or US thing to do is actually buy a ford.
~Stephen

I disagree.
The patriotic thing to do is resist and boycott commie Union companies.

Ford gets rid of the Union workers and I might change my mind when I need a replacement for my RAV4.

Oh, and I'll won't forget Toyota has never built a car that'll Bar-B-Q you like the Pinto/Bobcat, which Ford knew about but decided to build as-is because they thought it would be cheaper to pay for the lawsuits they lost instead of retooling*.

*how patriotic of them

Aaron, not content merely to tell us what to do, you tell us what we said (i.e., wrote) and did. You wrote: "Saying 'I was in Europe and never saw small engines' you won't earn my trust - I lived there, while you were just a tourist."

No one wrote that before you did, so I'm not sure whom you were trying to quote. I did, however, very clearly write that "I lived in Germany" - not, as J.P. mentioned, that living there is in any way a prerequisite for noticing an engine's displacement, even if you're "just a tourist", barely sentient, not all-knowing like you. After all, you lived there...

"To make enough money to drive large engine car in Europe one has to make career first." Too bad they're not as advanced as the North Koreans, though - you really have to make it to get a large engine there...

For the record, though, my 20-something colleagues and I in Germany drove BMW 3s, Audi A4s, and the like - and didn't hesitate to undertake multi-thousand km road trips.

Here's a history lesson for Obama.

Back in the 80's there were major changes to the Building Codes fr Houses because of new Fire Codes for Homes and better Fire-Fighting responses.
From this , developers could now build the garage into the House or part of the house rather than the old Brick unit or detatched backyard Garage.
Now comes the flood of Apartments with underground parking spaces and all of this created a problem for FORD,GM and Chrysler because they all made the Tall rear-wheel-drive Luxury van based on the Cargo Vans.
The door heights and pipes in the underground areas were too low to get a cargo van into
(remember when the CAA switched to station wagons and pick-up trucks,plus Tow-Trucks were re-designed with a lifting-Plate instead of the cable and pulleys) and the new houses had garage door heights around 6.0' or less.

Basically, Lee Iaccocoa argued with FORD to build a Mini-Van to fit a new garage but FORD was bent on keeping the cargo van design.

What Obama doesn't understand is that the price of products will go through the roof because small delivery vehicles will have no choice but to carry lesser loads and be more unsafe with lighter body parts and frames to get the Mileage he demands.
This means 2 small trucks, 2 drivers ,2 insurance policies,2 benefits plans,and 2 vehicle caught in traffic just to deliver the same amount of Electronics as 1 cargo van with 1 driver getting 9 miles per gallon less than each of the 2 vans eating up 1 gallon every 35-37 miles.

There is a reason for why a bakery doesn't make 1 Loaf of bread at a time or 1 Cookie at a time.

So keep this in mind Mr.Obama because this theory also works for delivering those Cookies and bread loaves to local small shops , and don't think for one minute that using 3 smaller Van's to deliver the same Cookies and bread won't cost more or be passed on to the consumer.

Show me where I had a problem with other's points of view or told you what to do, with quotes, if you please.
Like I said, if you want to speed - keep speeding, just don't blame the high gas prices on Obama.

One thing is obvious to me: the vast majority of Canadians are a bunch of lawless thugs. How I arrived at that? Looking at how you speed, run the stop signs, do not signal lane changes, cross solid lines etc. Argue all you want - I have footage. Until you all begin obeying your own country's laws, don't whine that a bunch of Tamil Tigers ignore them. They look at you and use you as an example.

If speeding is so dear to you, you have to grow up.

Aaron

why don't you quit nattering about my lawn mower, and let discuss my 9000 LBS, 4X4, red neck red pickup that I haul my chit with

my lawn mower has a 1.1 litre engine, and it won't pull hay wagons:-))))

"...To make enough money to drive large engine car in Europe one has to make career first. Here you finish school and buy a Camaro...."

(Aaron)

True enough. North America has a flatter social structure; even the middle class can drive 300+ hp cars, or 4x4s like Grand Cherokees. In Europe it's only the elite who can afford 300 hp cars, due to both high fuel prices and high vehicle prices. In the post-Obama world there will still be Grand Cherokee-like vehicles in America, but only the richest 10% will be able to afford them.

As for Aarons "lawless thugs" I doubt speeding qualifies you as a "thug", not in Alberta anyway. I sense he has embraced the concept of "euro-docility" whereby the agreement is the state makes all the big decisions in your life and your part of the deal is to accept a web of government rules you religiously live by.

Speeding is sooo relative. If we are to define speeding simply as a relationship to out dated "maximums"?, then yes we ALL speed at times.

The speed limits generally in the world are based on old car technology, not mileage. As a fellow person who has also lived in Europe at some point, I can conclude that there are many many roads that are in your terms "unsafe". If those same roads existed here, they would be 70kph at best.

However Germany has created a great road system which encompass motor sizes of way greater values than 1.4L, and most of the vehicles are cars of which are also larger than 1.4L. The autobahn is a very safe road to travel at high speeds, only because the majority of people there pay attention. It would take a big set of kahunas to accuse a daily driver there that they are unsafe and immature for driving between 150 and 200kph.

So really difficult engineering solutions are made viable by a stroke of the politicians pen ?.
I mean - does this not prove that Politicians really DO live on a different planet ?.

Why are we worrying about speeding when we should be worrying about the reliability of the new motors?

We just tried a new piece of heavy equipment out this week with a new generation motor, we ran it for an hour before the computer started "howling" stating an engine malfunction - sensor related due to the water separator sensor, drained it three times still no luck.

Six rads where there used to be two, variable port turbo, etc - yet the owner buys a service contract to take care of all the bugs brought on by tighter tolerances, that matter more than reliability and progress and could mean more potential harm to the bottom line.

The salesman even stated how much more expensive it was to replace the fuel system in the new motor- hence the fuel system sensor, and the warning so.....

I think the real cost of the new technology when it comes to vehicles and the engines in them is understated to say the least.

Obama is the equivalent of a God forsaken cloning of Carter and Nixon.

Why is it that about 25% of the American electorate who are certainly old enough to know better ... re; Carter etal ... chose to ignore history, facts and certain evidence that these Democretins were going to ruin the US?

This time around there is not likely to be a Ronald Reagan to set things back on the right path.

Don't forget, OMMAG, the last time significant fuel reduction standards were implemented by government fiat was under Carter. The net result: people drove more and there was no material change to overall fuel consumption. Golly, who'd of thunk it?

Zero and his moron squad, like most of those on the left, are simply incapable of learning from history. What's the oft-cited definition of insanity, again?

I'm at the point where nothing Zero does surprises me anymore. The man is a wing nut. A strategic, cunning and intelligent wing nut. Which makes it all the scarier.

Arrrgh. Some one tell President "Let me be perfectly Clear", that emission reduction and fuel economy are mutually exclusive. Any reduction in emissions have been at the expense of fuel economy. Just ask the trucking industry how their fuel bills have increased when all the new generation emission controls were added to the engines. Does he want me to replace my Peterbilt with a Smartcar?

Look on the bright side, in a few years under Obama’s wise guidance, auto enthusiasts wishing to see classic American cars in everyday use won’t have to travel to Castro’s jewel in the Caribbean.

its easy to make the 1300 bucks payout in only 12 months in fuel cost saving. triple the price of gas through taxes.

shut down the coal companies as he promised. hook up america to the grid of high cost half time windmills.

Atlas Shrugged. he is shutting down the US economy one sector at a time and nationalizing it. first the banks. then the car companies , then the oil companies, then the power companies.

the price of obama paying the mortgages and putting gas in the po' peoples cars.

Greta on Fox News has a great interview on the car business with a really smart car dealer. This guy hammers the poor managers who have run Chrysler and GM into the ground. He says he would help them figure out how to fix things, but they wouldn't listen to him if he tried. This is now typical of American industry: college-educated clowns with little practical experience ignoring people with decades of hands-on experience. Both of these companies are going down I think.

Aaron, it was funny to arrive in Germany and find you can drive from one side to the other in less than a single day, and you can walk from one town to the next in an hour or two. It was funny to see a country where 80% of the people live in a dinky little apartment with no parking.

What I want to see is how Obama's 35mpg wonder-truck is going to make out pulling my car trailer with a Bobcat on it. I have to go do that this morning.

I predict a brisk aftermarket trade in big frackin' motors and turbo upgrades for the new Barrymobiles.

Incidentally Aaron, a VW 1600 with 60hp is an excellent engine... for a 1500lb sand rail. In a highway vehicle, not so much. Even the rail begs for a dual carb upgrade and a turbo.

One thing is obvious to me: the vast majority of Canadians are a bunch of lawless thugs. How I arrived at that? Looking at how you speed, run the stop signs, do not signal lane changes, cross solid lines etc. Argue all you want - I have footage.

Dear Aarhead;
You have the time and inclinaton to record traffic infractions by us thugs?
You were certainly a oh so popular hall monitor in school weren't you?
All the actual problems in the world created by leftist weirdo's like you, and this is your community involvement?
Shaddap

The vast majority of Canadians are known for their orderliness and love of order.

Argue all you want - I have footage.

What you don't seem to have is a life.

Aaron: The US is large.

The road distance from Portland, OR to Phoenix, AZ is 1500 miles.

That's the distance from London to Moscow.

We don't like dippy little tiny engines because we have to drive a lot, many of us - and while you don't need lots of horsepower/torque to move, you DO need it to safely pass another vehicle at speed on a two-lane road.

My first car was a Metro, with a 1.1L, and my current car weighs nearly twice as much with only half again more power (and it's a German car with a 3L engine!), so I know about small engines at least as well as you, no?

Oz: Ford doesn't deserve the bad rap it got over the Pinto. See Here (pdf).

The Pinto didn't burn more than other cars (at the time - they're all safer now), and the horrible "cost of fixing vs saving lives!!!" thing was... a paper submitted to the NHTSA arguing that the cost/benefit analysis of proposed regulations was unfavorable and that they should be rethought.

(And the case in question was rollover-caused fires, rather than rear-impact ... and also referred to all American car production, not the Pinto.

Similarly their "a life is worth $200,000" figure... came from NHTSA standards.

Ford completely doesn't deserve the approbation people still attach to them over this.

Thanks, Mother Jones. Progressive journalism at its best.)

Ford totally deserves the aprobation for the Pinto.

http://www.fordpinto.com/blowup3.htm

Apparently Ford has not yet learned the lesson from the Pinto:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/ford-fire-safety-problems-take-2-total-recall/

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/ford_ranger_safety.html

Ford totally deserves the aprobation for the Pinto.

http://www.fordpinto.com/blowup3.htm

Apparently Ford has not yet learned it's lesson from the Pinto:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/ford-fire-safety-problems-take-2-total-recall/

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/ford_ranger_safety.html