Kate, you should win some sort of award for your headlines.

They're far better and infinitely more clever than you'll ever find in the dead-tree media.

I am only 35 and I can remember a time when a students who didn't perform well would get a tongue-lashing from their teacher. I can distinctly remember at least three situations where the conversation went something like...

Teacher: "Mr/Miss Jones: Could you please explain your poor performance on this test."

Student: "I dunno. I just don't get the subject."

Teacher: "What do you mean you don't get it? We spent two weeks on the subject."

Student: "I just don't understand the material."

Teacher: "Go to the principal's office. If you say you don't understand the material, you're saying that I'm not doing my job. So, go explain my incompetence to Mr. King."

There was a time when educators actually took the performance of their students to be a reflection upon themselves. Then again, this was in a small town - so maybe my perception is all messed up.

"It's odd that nobody asks why knowing only 50% of the required material should get you a passing grade in the first place."

Because that's all the socialists figure they need to know. A dumbed down sheeple is an easy ride for the leftards to obtain what they want.After all,the other 50% can be covered by feelings.
Glad our doctors,etc need more than 50%.Or do they???(nowadays)

The Latte Liberals are clueless as to how the Moral Hazard can destroy society. Rewarding failure in their minds is just so, well, bleedy hearty.

Hey, no sweat, just 'C Job' it - a 55% will get you by.

Hey, a 49% will cut it now.

Hey, a 44% is cool- see ya at grad.

(Another gen later)

Hey, 27% and they still pass ya.

Hey, the Teach doesn't keep score anymore - zero is the limit. Keeping score is just for the basketball court.

Book lernin never done me no good no how.

I expect that many teachers will be nudging a 45 up to a 48 to give some more benefit of doubt. Oh, such a slipery slope we tread.

The muslim gentleman sitting next to me at a dinner party in a restaurant was an instructor at the local community college and he told me he tells his students, 'if you get 50% it means you are wrong half the time.'

Knowing 40% is better than knowing nothing. There are people who just don't get some concepts no matter how long or many times they fail and repeat. It's better to put them through so they get on to the real education at the University of Hard Knocks.

All you have to do is read some of the corny riffing in this thread to realize that passing school grades does not equate to knowledge.

Passing a course only says one thing...you passed a course!

Actually, the state has an unlimited supply of goodies and incentives to be stupid and inept.

If you are smart and able you will be the one funding the goodies.

What's point?

No wonder people people believe in global warming. They are so devoid of any sort of the kind of education that teaches you to think critically, that most of the cattle will believe anything they are told by their benefactors.

And that's the way our leaders like it.

Yes Warick - kate's headers run very deep. More meaning than a weeks worth at the G&M !!

Others, Bourque, Drudge, ect, as good as they are, just post the stories. Kate also points out the irony, the fallacies, the moral hazards, the Juxtaposes and more.

All that takes brains and in depth knowledge and intelligence. It is no fluke that sda has a huge following. It is no wonder that the likes of wk and others are driven crazy by sda.

'Irony' (multicult Toronto's hyways shut down by the multiculters)

'Fallacies' (Chretien signs a AGW fraud document)

'Moral Hazards' (Punks bands and their drugs are cool - baptizing will protect the Kiddies though)

'Juxtaposes' (Canadian media praising BO, three months later condemning his protectionism)

Depending on the marking standards 50% (or even 25%) could be an appropriate score for a passing student ...

In University I took a course where the professor created an exam with 10 open ended questions where he expected that a student with a full grasp of the material would be able to (correctly) make 10 distinct points but he didn't limit the number of points an individual could earn on any question. When the marking was completed the C students were getting 75 points because they demonstrated an understanding of the material at a level which was adequate for passing the course, while the A students were in the 200 point range, and (when you add up all the potential points that could have been earned in the exam) the total was in the 300 point range.

Now, this was an extreme case but it should demonstrate that our fixation of percentages as a measure of academic achievement is entirely arbitrary.

I hate to tell everybody but this is common practice at University - I'm regularly asked by the Undergraduate Chair or the Registrar's office to do just this for undergraduate students.

May 9 Star-Phoenix page A3 headline: "Calling mom? Here's some suggestions"

Same issue, page A4 headline "Budget: Other universities fairing worse"

Must have had their grades bumped up.

A couple of comments:

If I'm on a bridge designed by one of these grads, I hope I'm on the half that doesn't collapse.

Remember the Beverly Hills Eduacational Board? They placed Jethro Clampett according to his intellectual level, not his age category. Our school boards could take a lesson from them.

In 1993 I started U as a 32 y/o mature student and the lack of maturity in many of my classmates astounded me. I can recall one laughing at his mid-term mark of 44% on a very simple 'Intro to Computers' first year course. Maybe he was a product of the teacher system featured in the article.

I 'saw' the strap once and was promised that I would 'feel' it the next time I messed up. Sure this wasn't for academic reasons but rather 'extreme' horseplay. My point is, bring discipline back into the schools and just watch the marks climb.

I think Momar nailed it "They are so devoid of any sort of the kind of education that teaches you to think critically,.."

The 'Modern Liberal' believes there can be no discrimination - none what so ever. Giving a student a failing grade is discrimination, they "teach" us.

The key word there being 'believes'. Being Liberal is all about believing - not knowing.

Ontario's assessment/evaluation education policy is even better....cheating, plagarizing, not doing assignments can still get you a passing grade.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/News/Teacher+begins+petition+change+fail+policy/1532870/story.html

The following, from a very prominent Canadian Journalist, sums the rot up quite well;

[I think many people have lost the capacity for "critical thinking" and have replaced it with "magical thinking."
Critical thinking means you form ideas and views based on reason, research, observation and experience.
Magical thinking means you base them on accepted or "received" wisdom from others.
Critical thinkers ask questions. Magical thinkers crave pat answers.
Critical thinkers are skeptrics. Magical thinkers are believers.
Critical thinkers are wary of authority, magical thinkers put their faith in authority, as long as that authority sounds like it is consistent with their world view, no matter the consequences.
I think part of it has to do with how modern liberal, secular, education has to a large extent devalued the ideas of standards, values and the use of reason from our collective consciousness.
After all, if there really is, for example, no moral difference between, say, capitalism or communism, if both are indeed simply human responses to greed, then how does one judge any system of governance?
And why wouldn't people, on both the left and right, therefore put their faith in politicians promising simple, "magical", one-size-fits-all solutions to complex, practical problems that ignore the law of unintended consequences, if only we'll do what they say?]

What frightens me even more is what they are being taught.

"The point, Hunter says, is to give students who are extremely close to passing the benefit of the doubt."

They failed - what is there to doubt?

Good Morning Educators: Today Kate is teaching you About "Irony"

To hand out marks just shy of passing is "inviting controversy," he (Hunter) says.

I really wouldn't have any problems with kids getting through school without learning anything if we did not have a welfare state. However, since we do, I think it is imperative that we get as many of our children to the point of where they are able to get a job, excel at it and make more money (hence, becoming net contributors). Which begs the question, is there a way to completely do away with welfare? This isn't a rhetorical question--I'd like to find a way of doing away with it once and for all.

~~favill~~

*
oh, kate... you're so snobby.

this is canada... what's wrong with a "bachelor of nice"?

*

Ah yes, forgetting more than we learned; the unheralded basis for a regressive society.

Systemic stupidity coming to a learning institution near you.

Cheers

Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief

1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group "True North"

I can't remember the last time I took a test where I only needed 50%

Passing grade for most courses here are 70% to 80% and for most of my courses, anyone who did not get 90 plus was someone you probably don't want to trust with your life around 440 power or the ever popular 400 cycle power.

Posted by: abcd at May 11, 2009 12:45 PM

Probably more than half the time abcd. If you only got 50% then you were most likely taking some pretty wild guesses on the parts you got right.

Hey Kate, you might want to put this story up under the heading "NOT WAITING FOR THE ASTEROID"

Irish student hoaxes world's media with fake quote

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090511/wikipedia_hoax_090511/20090511?hub=SciTech

It would be more comforting if teachers were given exams. Those that aced the soft marxistspeak trendy claptrap laden subjects could be advised to go teach elsewhere, perhaps Cuba or Zimbabwe. Those who could actually speak several coherent sentences in sequence and had a liking for real math and real science might be worth retaining. The vacancies could be filled by "old style teachers" from various areas of the world where "hands on" has an entirely different connotation.

Back when the earth was new I remember pre-med students heading for the prof when exam scores came out. His philosophy was he would bend a little in order to change a 4 to a 5. His statement was who was he to keep someone from trying to be a MD. He would give a mark or two but not more than that. I can't say that is wrong if the desire is there and it usually was. The people that got that 1% made darn sure they did better next time. But a 44 to a 50 is being lenient to the extreme and not in anyone's interest.

Dang, needed some critical review of the way I presented the last point. Hope you know I did not actually mean you abcd........... LOL

"It's odd that nobody asks why knowing only 50% of the required material should get you a passing grade in the first place."

Can't have people thinking for themselves. Stupid, uneducated, brainwashed folk are who keep voting Democrats into power (at least in America).

It's in Barack Obama's interest to make sure no child actually graduates with an education...

It's all set up to get people to not learn.

Achieving at the level of +or-50% will get you fired from most jobs that are worth having.

The best lesson students can learn in school is how to really achieve, not merely how to get by in a hot-house environment like a classroom.

I always thought it was "chill'uns". Amazing what I learn here!

I've commented on this topic before. It's unfortunate that we've delegated so much authority to a group of people(teachers) whose very occupation attracts the bottom of the bucket academic performers in Universities. I didn’t pay some drop-out $5/hr to raise my kid for me in a daycare; and I sure as h%ll am not going to entrust those same kids futures to a group of mediocre socialists, that are more concerned about getting paid extra for the extra time required to accomplish what was their job in the first place, educating our kids.

Anyone who isn't directly participating and evaluating their own child’s education are gambling with their children’s future. Policies such as the one in question do not benefit the students effected by this policy.

Passing a failing student is just a cowardly way to tell a student that "I'm give up on you" without saying it to their faces!

"They placed Jethro Clampett".
I believe you mean Jethro Bodine.
Fail.

Passing a failing student is just a cowardly way to tell a student that "I'm give up on you" without saying it to their faces!
~Indiana Homez at May 11, 2009 1:52 PM

I disagree.
I think passing a failing student is the teacher's way of saying, "Look what a good job I'm doing. Nobody failed. Now it's time to give me a raise!"

Yes I think so - Amy P. The Owe's remark about visiting 57 states was embarrassing for the new wanna- be President, when some of 'his' future subjects picked it up and laughed at his ignorance. Why would he want subjects that are better informed than he, himself - The One? The One must be 'all knowing'. Seems to me that the King of Tonga had similar worries and attempted to 'deal' with it in a similar manner. Why do some countries ban education for women?

Knowledge is power. Dictators cannot prosper if citizens have power.

We have set the bar too low for students. We have, in effect, given up on them. We have conceded failure before having experienced it.
Kids aren't stupid. If you get them young enough, they can learn just about anything. We need teachers (and curricula) with enough wiggle room to teach students concepts in a way they can understand. We need parents to get off their butts and care about what their kids are learning. We need students to understand what is expected of them and to do it.
I taught Korean kids as young as six years old the difference between the simple present tense and the present continuous tense. The Korean alphabet is entirely different from the Roman one and the verb in a Korean sentence is the last word. My sister teaches high school students who confuse "their" with a word of location. That's not seen as a major detriment to understanding the meaning of a sentence (my Korean students understood). How did this happen? Because we let it.
By the way, the Korean word "boksu" means plural AND revenge. Just thought I'd share.

Then there is the conflict between the desire for a world-class" knowledge economy" at the post-secondary level and an equal outcome, everyone passes public education system.

For example, this year I have been asking my second grade child about his math class. His vague answers and lack of basic math knowledge concerned me. After a little research, I learned that our province has a "new and improved" math curriculum. It is slower and has less arithmetic but more group problem-solving and student-centered activities. The entire plan seems designed to throttle down the actual learning of the mechanics and focus on the concepts alone. So everyone passes but no one learns. I shudder to think of the outcome when students attempt advanced math and science at the high school and university level.

It is unbelievable that the same forces promoting increased R&D and a transition to a high tech economy are also implementing a dumbed-down version of math at primary and middle schools.

I teach at a local institution of higher learning when I'm not working for a living and I can tell you the policy is similar: If it's a couple of percent off a pass (not 50%, thankfully) then boost it to pass. The reasoning is simple in that a student who has failed and is that close may well appeal. The appeal process is nasty, every test is scrutinized and there is almost always a question here or there that could be misleading or ambiguous. And I don't get paid to sit in on the appeal.

Q: What do they call the guy who came last in his class at medical school?

A: Doctor.

Jethro said: "They placed Jethro Clampett".
I believe you mean Jethro Bodine.
Fail.

Oops!

50%. i must be f--kin brilliant.

I got through University this way, twice I was on the verge of failing out. Both times I convinced serval profs to increase my mark by one or two percent, spread across serval classes was enough to get through. I have been working sucsessfully for ten years in the real world.
Failing a student by one or two percent is just dumb, to go back and have to take high school geo-trig or english over is just a waste of time.

systemic stupidity, i love it, brilliant.

I believe that the lowered standards for education is a creature of the Left.

It's all part of the dumbing-down of the Free World.

I seriously doubt that the Non-Free World has such liberal passing standards. Why would they? They can insist that students try their best, that no one has a right to be a slacker.

In the Free World, the astonishingly powerful and influential Left believes it's a right to be a slacker, to not use one's brain. They seem to believe that requiring students to apply themselves to the best of their ability would somehow be a violation of their human rights.

What else can possibly explain why half-knowledge passes for knowledge?

Right, so the kid barely achieves 50%.

Over the summer the kid then forgets 50% of the mere 50% they learned.

Then the teacher spends 1 week of the next course level for a refresher, and plunges into new material, building on the basis of the last year, that the kid starts out with if they're lucky, a 25% ability to comprehend.

It's all downhill from there.

Oh, and Keith | May 11, 2009 2:40 PM, you should tell that to your boss. I'm sure they've been wondering which slackers to give pink slips to in this economy. I know that if I was your boss, I'd give you more than a 50% consideration.

The unintelligent are easier to lead as sheep.

POTUS Obama is not just a posterboy of this process.....his ignorance is blatant but the fact that he got elected means he is not unique. That was the agenda in the first place.
We are painfully aware that he is a puppet by meqans of teleprompter but his arrogance will inevitably destroy the whole thing.....he will rebel.....reject advise etc. Arrogance does that.

As an engineer, my fresh from school employees soon learn that 80% correct is 20% wrong. I strive for 0% wrong. I don't want stuff to blow up and kill people.

I as them..."are YOU sure? Would you defend yourself in court?" They usually leave my office and come back when they are sure.

I get mad at them when they want me to hand them answers. They don't even think about where they can get the right answer. I want them to think.

I try to promote discussion, saying there are no stupid questions, only stupid mistakes.

50% to pass. No wonder it is hard to find people who want to excel.

Nice try Oz, I'll be just about the last guy laid-off, besides, my perseverance has served me well in the real world. Of my friends I graduated with I obviously had the worst marks, today, ten years later, I'm doing just as well if not better than the ones with better marks.

So I take it you aren't going to introduce your boss to this thread then, eh Keith?

I agree with OZ.

I tutor math from time to time and in almost every situation the kids and adults I've helped don't have the basic prerequisite skills for the work their currently doing. More often than not, it's a problem with fractions. My approach once I've identified why the student is struggling is to go to the root of the problem, and then get them caught up over the long run. Their (just kidding Osumashi) is no shortcut to remedy this, or none that I'm aware of.

btw, there doesn't seem to be a shortage of 50% math students. They seem to be the same students year after year after year; yet with only 48-50% grasp of the curriculum these students miraculously just learn enough to just learn enough the next year. Stimulus for tutors.

I'll post one conservative's dissent from the general sentiment here.

Teacher-made tests are just not valid (in the statistical sense) within one or two percentage points, e.g. 50% = Pass, 49% = Fail. The B.C. Ministry of Education suggests that teachers convert their grades to percentages for the purpose of reporting student achievement to the Ministry.

Unfortunately, many teachers do it exactly the opposite, i.e. they make up the test, they administer it, they derive a percentage when they grade it, and they never reflect on whether it might have been their teaching or perhaps the test itself that was inadequate if, say, 40% of the class fails the test. "Oh, Johnny got 68%. That's a - let's check the chart - C+."

Nobody has ever pointed out any significance to the B.C. percentages that are attached to grades from A to F; it's just the way it's always been. 50% could actually represent an incredibly high standard, depending on how the material is presented and assessed, and I agree it sends out a poor message and, even worse, promotes vagueness and lack of focus. The 60% common in many US jurisdictions isn't much better.

I could go on, as a retired school administrator of more than two decades including my final 15 years as a secondary school principal, but let's just say I'm not as trusting of teacher infallibility as some.

Their union, the BCTF, declares themselves to be a "union of professionals" and took exception whenever I pointed out they were not "self-employed" professionals and therefore subject to supervision. If their more militant members would concentrate on the art of teaching rather than on furthering their own economic interests, students would be better served. Ironically, it was generally the most militant unionists who proclaimed their "high standards." Odd that they wouldn't support such high standards imposed by supervisors on them, eh?

In closing, I award myself 87% for this post. Let's see - oh, that's an A in BC!

At the University of Saskatchewan, we second year computer science nerds were given an exam that, "we should not be able to finish...as a finish line limits the the full breadth of knowledge that can be displayed".

The idea was that the test wasn't designed to be completed. The top students would complete the largest portion of material with the most correct answers, and the entire class was then graded based on our collective achievement. There was some fancy math included to keep people from trying to shotgun the test (just race through and grab all the low hanging fruit). For example, if a question was out of 6 marks, and a student got all of those 6 marks, they would be worth more than if he answered 6 questions worth 6 marks but only got 1 mark for each.

Thank god it didn't work that way when I was in school, 23 years ago. I recieved a 49% in grade 10 math. After whining to my teacher about bumpimg up my mark, he said, "50% is a pass, 49% is a fail. Take the class over next semester." Thankfully I did take it over, passed with flying colors and now I make most of my living from using math skills.

I feel that the three R's should require better than 50% to pass. More like 70% to 80%.

Extra classes like social studies, biology, Chemistry and physics are probably okay at 50%

However, if you can Read Rite and Rithmatic at a high level, I don't see you getting below 70% on any other classes either.

As touched on previously, what is the use of teaching a kid how to do a math problem if they can't tell you 7x6, or the sqare root of 144 right off the top of their head.

In this day and age of email and blogs, I feel it is more important for children to use proper grammar. Mistakes when using their/they're/there, for example, can add or detract from the authority of the author.

How long do we have to deal with lose standards before we risk loosing the ability to correct ourselves?

Just one more point to add a little more perspective, in BC there is (or at least used to be - I'm happily retired) a Board of Examiners that reviews the provincial examinations annually. Ensuring that tests are both reliable and valid is a highly technical task. I was told one year by a member that, due to deficiencies revealed in the Physics 12 exam (if I'm recalling correctly), a raw score of 35% was scaled and converted to a passing grade.

No, even tests prepared by full-time experts are not always bullet-proof, let alone those prepared by individual teachers, even with the best of intent.

If you fellow conservatives would like to read more on this , check out John Taylor Gatto
-Dumbing Us Down.
-The Underground History of American Education.
-Weapons of Mass Instruction.

Weapons of Mass Instruction is a gem.

This story is apropos: http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/05/11/buffalo-plane-crash-training.html

Failing a student by one or two percent is just dumb, to go back and have to take high school geo-trig or english over is just a waste of time.

Posted by: Keith at May 11, 2009 2:40 PM


So, where do you draw the line? 46%? what's the difference between 46 and 45%? 1%, so, might as well pass the 45%'ers too! And what's the diff between 45 and 44%? Get the point? If your pass/fail line is 50%, it needs to be 50% with absolutely no exceptions. 49.8% should still be a fail, since it is not 50%.

There must be a reason why their skills are so poor, Indiana Homez (tee!).
Tests don't always point out the student's overall skills but there should be a baseline of knowledge at a certain age.

Kate, if you have to ask 'why', you don't understand that it's KGB working to turn Canada into a gun at the USA's temple. Sad.

So the art of teaching only involves a mark moving up to 50% from 44 - 49%, but never down to 49% from 50 - 55%. Where's the art? Sounds like rote.

ron in kelowna at May 11, 2009 12:27 PM:
Hey, the Teach doesn't keep score anymore - zero is the limit. Keeping score is just for the basketball court.

Except that keeping score on the basketball court will destroy the little darling's self esteem. Everyone must be a winner, don't ya' know.

You'd think with all of the failing grades these kids just finished taking the Kobayashi Maroo. (BONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!)

So the art of teaching only involves a mark moving up to 50% from 44 - 49%, but never down to 49% from 50 - 55%. Where's the art? Sounds like rote.

No, the art of teaching involves actually teaching, and as part of teaching using a variety of evaluation instruments to measure the student's progress, and also to assist the teacher in measuring his or her success in guiding the student to the learning objectives.

Anybody who thinks that a teacher distinguishing between 49% and 50% is engaging in some sophisticated professional activity obviously has no idea either of the limitations of teacher-made tests or of the modest introduction the vast majority of us have gotten to statistics and measurement in our course work.

I always said I wanted all teachers to have high expectations. If they have those of all students, the standards pretty well look after themselves. A student had to try pretty hard to fail one of my classes, because I demanded a lot. Paradoxical? Only to some.

Since I'm starting to remind even myself of the education-speak jargon of my former job, I'll sign off this topic. I hope I haven't damaged the self-esteem of any teachers happening to read it. For that reason, I'll steer completely clear of the topics of private school vs. union-dominated public schools, vouchers, et al.

Cheers,
Drained Brain

Sorry to be stating the obvious, but this is dumbing down at its very best -- or, rather, at its very worst.

Things have got so bad -- but, hey, we didn't mean our mamby-pamby, no-one's-to-blame meme to result in such absolute destitution -- that to admit it might mean that the conservative-redneck-naysayers win and we lib-left progressives have to admit defeat.

No way! We'll just make sure that the know-nothing, do-nothing guys pass the test because, poor babies, life's been really tough for them. We'll just wrap the ne'er do wells in cotton batten and ensure more government funding for us all. That's the "l/Liberal way."

I agree, batb.

It makes me wonder, when someone says their public schooled child is an "honour" student or was valedictorian, if it bears any relationship to what it meant back in my day or if their kid is just the smartest of a dull lot.

with the real spellin'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobayashi_Maru

I can't understand why more people don't homeschool. With all the resources available, why would anyone imprison their kid for 13 years in a socialist system.

My husband died when our kids were 4, 7 and 9 and we managed to homeschool K-12. The older two are graduating from uni this month, my son with a double honours degree in math and computer science, my daughter with her second degree, having attained the first one at home by age 18.

I really only taught them to read and then did not stand in the way of their own ambition. I had to work to keep food on the table, so they were largely self-taught. If our family can do this, EVERYONE can do it.

Oz: "It makes me wonder, when someone says their public schooled child is an "honour" student or was valedictorian, if it bears any relationship to what it meant back in my day or if their kid is just the smartest of a dull lot."

Yeah, me too.

How to create more welfare-collecting socialist-voting losers.
Tantamount to child abuse.

ACADEMIA, its not all that, Whats it worth?
I have a PHD but i cant change a light bulb.
Some of the dumbest people i know are highly educated and put them in the real world and they cant change a flat tire. What good are they? Not much.

I got through University this way, twice I was on the verge of failing out. Both times I convinced serval profs to increase my mark by one or two percent, spread across serval classes was enough to get through. I have been working sucsessfully for ten years in the real world.
Failing a student by one or two percent is just dumb, to go back and have to take high school geo-trig or english over is just a waste of time.

Posted by: Keith at May 11, 2009 2:40 PM

keith

thanx for the laff

with 2 spellin missteaks, 1 repeeted , ewe clame a younivercity edukation

BTW, just claim you're a dyslexic, and that is why you kan't spell, that's wot I doo!!!!

"We need parents to get off their butts and care about what their kids are learning."
Bingo!

The goverments last thought is to have an education system that actually creates an independant thinkers or even logic. It wants an emotional idiot with no logic or other skills.
Thats why they send their kids to REAL schools with NO modern stupidities. Where lucky in Alberta that under Ralph we got a multi educational charter with home schooling encouraged, charter & private schools. Even the school system has set up there own Charter scholls as well. 23 Higher learning institutiions in Edmonton alone, with just over a million Metro in Pop.

Homeschooling one of two. He's a different person, was a complete failure at school and now he's an over achiever. The toughest part was to find out how bad the things were, the school/board went out of their way to shove any signs of trouble under the rug.

This is why the really smart kids start taking IB or AP courses - its a real course with real marks.

not stirred enough: "It's better to put them through so they get on to the real education at the University of Hard Knocks."

I have to agree with this. To my way of thinking most of the learning that happens in high school is not that meaningful. It probably does not accomplish much to have some of these people repeating over and over again. Real success or failure will be determined at a later point.

Revenant dream: "The goverments last thought is to have an education system that actually creates an independant thinkers."

The independent thinkers are the ones who are dropping out.

kdl - well done.

This will help students in real-life situations when they get a job after school! "But, boss, teacher said I could pass when I failed." You're fired.

Being "present" most of the time, or close to most of the the time, should be enough to pass.

I'm not sure, but I suspect that Hamburger University, requires more than 50% for a pass ... and it's a hard pass mark ... even MacDonalds doesn't hire everyone.

So if grades are a definitive marker of one's intelligence then I guess we can all agree that Obama is much smarter than Bush, right!? Glad we got that settled. ;)

stan,

Please post the marks that you are basing this on.

I think many people do not understand the point of school lessons and exams. There is an element of leaning history, math or English because these subjects may come in handy in life. An overlooked element is teaching someone how to learn and how to produce under pressure i.e. examinations and tests.

When Ontario eliminated final exams for most high schoolers with "recommendations" not to write the final exam because they had done so well during the school year, an entire generation lost the ability to produce under pressure. I saw them in the hospitality business; front desk clerks who would panic if more then three guests tried to check in at the same time. Cooks and waiters who became paralyzed when a dinner rush fell on the restaurant. They had simply never learned how to handle a situation when you must get it done in a set time frame. Sad really.

It fell on management to teach these "graduates" what the high schools did not. Work under deadlines, write a clear letter, speak clearly without ums, ohs and you knows. Don't get me started on basic math need for cash outs! Many were salvageable. Others you knew would be overpaid for the rest of their lives due to minimum wage laws.

At the apprenticeship school I attended many years ago our passing mark was 70%. This amused a classmate's sister-in-law, an M.D.

She pointed out that the pass mark where she went to medical school was 50%.

Then some of these grads get into college programs that DO require a high bar for a passing grade and cannot figure out why they can't keep up(example, some paramedicine programs only graduate students that get 80% or above). I don't want to knock alternative programs either, but I know a girl who graduated high school a few years ago with some sort of special diploma from an alternative learning program but she could not even pass the general writing entrance exam for our community college - standard grammar and writing principles. She wanted to get into the same program as me for Early Childhood Education even though she knew that some of the psych courses were making pull my hair out, and I graduated high school with an 'advanced matriculation' diploma. She thought with her diploma she could do anything and was very upset when the college did not accept her. I have no idea why so many schools are literally setting kids up for failure while claiming that they are setting them up to succeed.

Obama is much smarter than Bush, right!? Glad we got that settled. ;)
~stan at May 11, 2009 10:58 PM

In what universe did Obama run against Bush?

I'll tell you what, though, if Obama had run against Bush instead of Gore or Kerry, Obama'd have gotten his ass kicked 'cause that hope and change tap dance Bambi just did would have been laughed out of town in those races.

Bush would have played hardball, Obama's relationship with the terrorist Bill Ayers would have been front and center, instead of the patty-cakes that brands McCain as the honorable loser he so desperately desires to be.