Skim ice again today in the Bedford Basin.

Lived here for 31 years now. Saw skim ice in the Basin a total of three or four times until this year. Now it is every other day. Not easy to get a tidal body of water that is that deep, cold enough to get ice to form this regularly.

This will not likely change the minds of the true faithful. The glaciers will have to be plowing into Winnipeg or Edmonton before the warmists concede defeat.

Yeah, but ... are the polar bears safe now?

Somehow, this will be twisted into more proof of AGW. Global Warming is so evil it can even cause record cold.

Yesterdays temperture in Calgary were a palmy high of "minus 21.4" and the low was a cozy "minus 26.2". "Wind chill" not included.

Yup, it's a good thing the "warmist" don't get to hung up on the truth and reality. It'd be way to "cognitive dissonance" for them.

Those who don't know the difference between weather and climate should limit their observations and comment to the former.

Al Gore Dr. Fruitfly probably do not read SDA b_nichol, so your advice is missing its best targets.

Little known fact for b-nichol:

"If you don't believe in global warming, just look out your window"

Is a quote from Dr. David Suzuki.

I trust that puts this series into its proper context for you.

"If you don't believe in global warming, just look out your window"

You have a link, I trust.

"Summerland" BC is -10C this morning. Under "you never know if people are kidding or not", the girl at the coffee shop this morning attributed the cold snap to "climate change". Brainwashed!

I am issuing a call for all people to idle their cars for a minimum of 5 minutes every day until we've got Global Warming again! It was minus 41 yesterday, even the polar bears were complaining about the cold.
Maybe the real climate refugees are going to be those moving south seeking warmer temperatures.

On Monday a cold weather record was set at Edmonton's International Airport.

The new low did not beat the old one by a fraction of a degree as is the norm with weather records, in this case it shattered the old record by a full 12 degrees!

b_nichol wrote:
"You have a link, I trust."

Never mind, Kate. I found four links. Curiously, all are attributed to you.

Just Google the phrase "If you don't believe in global warming, just look out your window"

Thoroughly dishonest.

b_nichol opened his yap and parrots an AGW proponent's favorite activity; using weather events as proof of their theory.

Oddly though, he/she doesn't realize it's not just a weather event of one or two days, but an entire season.

...and the AMO (Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation) is still WARM. It is expected to go cold in the next couple of years. Solar Minimum, PDO (Pacific Decadal Oscilation) gone cold last year and soon to be cold AMO. You can already see how this cold blob will move over Eastern Canada without the moderation of the Atlantic. Toronto will not fare as well as Vancouver has. But in the end it won't be much of a change for us on the praries. From Buffalo Jumps, these cold periods are biologically productive on the praries where moisture is the key variable. Just remember, don't plant until the May long weekend ;)

No, I have an ear. I was among of thousands of radio listeners who heard it via a broadcast interview.

But, as an aside - here's another Suzuki Greenhouse Fact: (published in the London Free Press, May 12 1990) Cars get hot on a sunny day because of the "carbon" in the glass!

b_nichol: Don't cite yourself, from the same thread, for God's sake.

That was the interview he got all hot and bothered about having to defend his views was it not Kate?

yet this is the CBCpravda headline. talk about global warming derierres.

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2009/03/10/tech-090310-climate-seas.html

"b_nichol opened his yap and parrots an AGW proponent's favorite activity; using weather events as proof of their theory.

Oddly though, he/she doesn't realize it's not just a weather event of one or two days, but an entire season"

Sorry, that fails the smell test.
Yes it has been bitterly cold in Edmonton for several days, and a number of records fell for March 9 and 10 throughout the province.
However, if you have a quick look at temperatures from mid-January to mid-February you will see, for the lower 2/3rds of Alberta, a period of very high temperatures, relative to seasonal norms.
Is this indicative of AGW? No.
How about the month of November, which was the warmest in Alberta in 54 years? Or perhaps last summer in Edmonton, which normally experiences 3 days above 30C, when it recorded 10 days above 30C? Or the summer previously, when Edmonton recorded its second-highest temperature ever? Are all these indicative of a cooling trend, or a warming trend?
If you answered either, you are wrong.

Gee, you'd think someone like b nichol would be absolutely thrilled that Global Warming is not actually happening! The earth is not doomed! Why so glum, chum?

God b_nichol people like you are so brainwashed it is stunning.

We grows raspberries and apricots in BC, and the plants don't lie, unlike Al Gore and company.

The raspberry crop has fruited later and later each year for the past 8-9 years, and the crop has lasted longer. Last year the crop ran for over 3 weeks, which we have never seen before.

Last year we had no apricots because the buds were killed by the cold.

We keep records of it all.

What amazes me is how members of the global warming religion ignore these facts by resorting to terms like "climate change".

What a gigantic con job the whole thing is. The parallels with a cult are obvious.

b_nichol...the difference between weather and climate.

When the "weather" is hot, it becomes synonymous with "climate". When the "weather" is cold, it isn't. Book of Gaia, Epistle of Gore, versus 4

Is that about it?

Make use of a good crisis. Get some snow machines into the bush camps and sell eco tourism. This may be your last chance to experience snow and ice! Land in a plane with skis! Total quiet! Charge 200% of what you would charge fishers and hunters for the increased costs.

The Liberals used global warming as a pawn to make the Canadian populace believe that somehow or another, they, (Libs) had the answer to the problem. (Remembewr Carbon Dion.) As it turned out, the reduction in CO2 may be the cause of this cooling trend. Of course the CO2 levels are lower because of the global recession and reduced consumption of fossil fuels, and nothing the Liberals did. What happens now if we can't stop the cooling trend?? Come on now Mr. Dion--you gotta have an answer to that one!

People like that would rather stay miserable than celebrate the fact that there is no climate crisis. They would rather cling to catastrophe, even if its obviously untrue.

Or it makes them happy to make everyone else miserable and terrified? Is that it?

People like that would rather stay miserable than celebrate the fact that there is no climate crisis. They would rather cling to catastrophe, even if its obviously untrue.

Or it makes them happy to make everyone else miserable and terrified? Is that it?

new cold record for this date in Vancouver this morning . . . -5.

Al Gore lies, we freeze.

Fruit fly and Al Gored are going to have an breakdown shortly, the weather just won't cooperate, shit.

"Are all these indicative of a cooling trend, or a warming trend?
If you answered either, you are wrong."

So b_nichol you and I are on the same page here. Like a figurative cop standing at the crime scene: "Nothing to see or worry about here or anywhere with regards to anthropogenic global warming/climate change... move along."

So, b_nichol, enlighten us. Exactly what is the difference between weather and climate? While you're at it, in order to make AGW a scientifically valid hypothesis, it must be in some way falsifiable. So, what are the conditions which would falsify the hypothesis that "Human CO2 production is causing global warming"?

"Thoroughly dishonest"
b-nichols
Translation: "Did Not"

AHHHHhahahahaha
Now the fun begins
Two to one that b_nichols whilst bent over scraping fruitfly shit off his birkenstocks and black socks , will go to the "right-wingers-are-nazi's defense" the lay off bet is even odds he advocates the use of the state monopoly of violence to silence your point of view.

Just like Dave the creepy home invader did.
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=290513

From: 2009 Saskatchewan Hunting Forecast
Shawn Burke Manager, Wildlife Management.

"Pronghorn antelope populations.... many of our pronghorn have migrated into the United States to escape one of the coldest winters in history of their range. ....many of the animals who usually winter in southern Saskatchewan are now far south in Montana. Migrations in excess of 600 kilometres have been recorded."

And, "....the prolonged spell of severe temperatures combined with crusted snow conditions are expected to result in above normal upland game bird mortality in southern Saskatchewan."

"if you don't believe in Global Warming" why are you still voting for people that do. How about a nice post on who's a believer mayor, premier, prime minister. That way people could decide who gets power or donations or whatever. Power to the people's!!!

b_nicols Actually, I heard Suzuki say this myself in a telivised interview. I'm not sure, but I think it was with the CBC in 04' or '05. Will look into it some more.

About the recent cold spell - take what comfort you can from the British Met Office. Last September, they forecast the coming winter as likely to be milder than average. When that didn't pan out, they came up with this gem - global warming had prevented this winter from being even colder. (via WUWT)

So, thank goodness for global warming, otherwise it would be really cold.

I have two thoughts [sometimes I have more than two but just two for now]
Whenever I hear about trying to change the temperature of the planet, I think of King Canute ordering the tide to stop so that his shoes would not get wet.
Is there another story going on that we are not seeing...the planet is actually getting colder and somebody has decided that if we are tricked into believing it is getting hotter we will never realise it is actually getting colder.

Who gives a crap about what any leftard has to say about AGW......this thread is supposed to be about the "wrong once again" assertion that the great lake's levels would be hurting because of AGW.

Well, as a boater, who plies the waters of eastern Lake Ontario, I can say, for a fact, that the lake was higher last year than it has been for a long time.

Anecdotal evidence aside, the data compiled by the pertinent Canadian and American government agencies is there for all to see.

ONCE AGAIN, LEFTARDED FEAR MONGERING DIPS#$%S WERE WRONG AGAIN !

"...in order to make AGW a scientifically valid hypothesis, it must be in some way falsifiable. So, what are the conditions which would falsify the hypothesis that "Human CO2 production is causing global warming"?"

>> Falsify the trend that CO2 is increasing
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/

>> Falsify the trend in temperature increases.
http://tamino.wordpress.com/2009/01/15/what-if/

>> Falsify the chemistry of CO2 that shows it is a greenhouse gas.

The difference between weather and climate is the same as the difference between inches and miles. Get enough inches and you end up with miles. get enough weather and you have climate. When people speak of Climate they are really talking about seasons.

"Two to one that b_nichols whilst bent over scraping fruitfly shit off his birkenstocks and black socks , will go to the "right-wingers-are-nazi's defense" the lay off bet is even odds he advocates the use of the state monopoly of violence to silence your point of view."

Done. I'll put $5000 each way.
You lose.
Gimme my money. That's 15-large you owe me.

"The difference between weather and climate is the same as the difference between inches and miles. Get enough inches and you end up with miles. get enough weather and you have climate. When people speak of Climate they are really talking about seasons."

Actually, I like the analogy, except the notion of 'seasonal' is rather limited; rather, it would be a seasonal variance in climate to talk about changes from autumn to winter.

Hey b_ minus, do you get your talking points from the Obamaton automated phone list. I heard this very line "weather is not climate" canard from the usual bimbos and dufusses on the msm dinosaur shows at least 3 times last week. Odd that!!

The most compelling argument against AGW is that politicians have latched onto it as a vehicle to spend tens of billions of dollars on pet social programs (and here I include building uneconomic solar farms and such as social programs).

That alone is enough to make the argument specious.

The thing that b_nichol and the Henny Penny crowd seem not to understand about the formal logic that all (real) science is based on is that it only takes 1 counterexample to disprove a statement and you can't prove anything by using examples ...

What this means is that a demonstration of a cooling trend that occurs while CO2 levels increase (like the past decade) is enough to disprove the global warming hypothesis ... And the media's obsession with "extreme" weather patterns can never be used to prove the global warming hypothesis.

In other words, claiming that the global warming hypothesis is correct is the same as saying you don't understand or follow logic and you can therefore not be a scientist.

Hoooray for the global warming cultists at Environment Canada. It's the coldest winter in thirty years. A few years back an old timer wrote into the Western Producer commenting on winter. The two worst in his long memory were 1955-56 and 1978-79. The latter winter we set the record (as I recall 34 days) for the most consecutive days of minus 30. We don't have quite as much snow in western Manitoba this year as in '79, however it's just as cold.

"Done. I'll put $5000 each way.
You lose.
Gimme my money. That's 15-large you owe me."

A bet's a bet.
Here's where you're confused, with Fruitfly Dave's new formula for betting on the future though.
From the comments I see everyone except you understands this.

You see, you bet YOUR money, and if you win, the pay off comes in carbon credits, either way, win or lose, you'll never see your 10,000 dollars again.
You win.

"The scientists are virtually screaming from the rooftops now. The debate is over! There's no longer any debate in the scientific community about this. But the political systems around the world have held this at arm's length because it's an inconvenient truth, because they don't want to accept that it's a moral imperative."

Though I looked and looked, I could not find the quote attributed to David Suzuki, but did find this gem,from the former Vice-President.

The theory then may have a problem:
http://www.klimadebat.dk/forum/attachments/feb.gif.

It's a tropical 17F here today. I'm thinking positive thoughts in old Al's direction.

"The thing that b_nichol and the Henny Penny crowd seem not to understand about the formal logic that all (real) science is based on is that it only takes 1 counterexample to disprove a statement and you can't prove anything by using examples..."

Um, if you read that over again, you'll see that you contradicted yourself: "...it only takes 1 (counter)example to (dis)prove a statement and you can't prove anything by using examples..."

"What this means is that a demonstration of a cooling trend that occurs while CO2 levels increase (like the past decade) is enough to disprove the global warming hypothesis..."

As I pointed out before, that would falsify the AGW theory. Do you have such an example?

Have a closer look at the 2nd graph generated from the NOAA data set, and note the 10-year smoothed average for the last decade.
http://tamino.wordpress.com/2009/01/15/what-if/

"In other words, claiming that the global warming hypothesis is correct is the same as saying you don't understand or follow logic and you can therefore not be a scientist."

Really? Do you not think that's a false dichotomy?

Well, it's been fun(?), but I need to get some real work done now.

drd: your link didn't work for me, and I have no idea how to navigate in this forum.
Can you give me some directions, and I'll check back later on it.
TNX

Nichol, if you really do believe the hype, can you please explain it to me, cause well, one of the things that I find so troubling is the fact that all this global warming hullabaloo has essentially nothing for information.
After all, there's oh... 65 million years of data that is completely unaccounted for owing to the lack of thermostats, including at least two ice ages that we know about based on physical evidence, two mini ice ages in Europe since AD 0 based on written accounts and a generally cyclical temperature where everything tends to warm up for a while, then cool down for a while (both on an annual and on a millenial scale).

Honestly, how do you justify the whole global warming panic when there's only 100 years of data to draw conclusions from?

drd: your link didn't work for me, and I have no idea how to navigate in this forum.
Can you give me some directions, and I'll check back later on it.
TNX
Posted by: b_nichol at March 11, 2009 4:01 PM

Delete the last period in the link.

i can't take anymore stupid. the next person who says climate change to my face will get a face full of fist.

I thought Suzuki said that comment when he stormed out of the studio in Toronto when he was challenged to prove his theory.

'WE'RE WARMING UP EVEN FASTER THAN EARLIER PREDICTIONS" --- Steven Hume, Columnist, Vancouver Sun.

"The sky is falling, the sky is falling." - Chicken Little --- Columnist, Vancouver Sun

"The earth is flat, the earth is flat." - Editorial Board, Vancouver Sun

'WE'RE WARMING UP EVEN FASTER THAN EARLIER PREDICTIONS" --- Steven Hume, Columnist, Vancouver Sun.

"The sky is falling, the sky is falling." - Chicken Little --- Columnist, Vancouver Sun

"The earth is flat, the earth is flat." - Editorial Board, Vancouver Sun

b_nichol should just stop exhaling Co2, thus helping to save the planet.

Hitler's new wave green shirts deserve that old white guy but I think the media should be the first to feel a boot where it smells funny. They are pulling way ahead of the legal and political users in the sleaze category.

It's the sun, son.

Just say no to solar warming denial.

b_nichol, CO2 is a nutrient will plants evolved with it on average around 1500 ppm and animals using the signature at a higher concentration, so there are even medical complications with plant life scrubbing it so effectively from our atmosphere and getting it so low. I think we are an evolutionary part of the Carbon Cycle preventing the collapse of photosynthesis by liberating Coal in the Earth's crust.

http://itsonlysteam.com/vent/2009/03/11/carbon-dioxide-the-importance-of-carbon-dioxide-to-your-health/

Despite what Kate thinks, I like my Prius except for the bladder in the gas tank (one tweak too many) and despite what AGW priests say, there is such a thing as CLEAN COAL.

The variation in the Earth's Climate is natural. Just be thankful we are still in an interglacial in an ICE AGE and not going through much bigger variation.

I must be going numb with age. I didn't find this winter all that cold in the grand scheme of things. Frikkin' long but not especially cold.

Monckton Mockely Goody:

"Monckton delivered a high energy stem-winder mocking global warming "bedwetters" and praising the conference participants for their courage in opposing the activists' global warming juggernaut."
...-

"Clouding Up Man-Made Global Warming

Final dispatch from the International Conference on Climate Change in New York

March 9, New York—The participants at the final lunch of the International Climate Change Conference in New York were in a celebratory and pugnacious mood. On the one hand, these skeptics feel beleaguered—who would not?—from their antagonists constantly comparing them to Holocaust "deniers" and calling for them to be tried for "high crimes against humanity and nature." On the other hand, they are cheered by recent polls indicating public skepticism of the claims of imminent catastrophe made by climate "alarmists." In a January Pew Research Center poll, global warming came in dead last on a list of issues of concern to Americans.

At the luncheon, retired NASA climatologist John Theon rose to lament the fact that he hadn't fired James Hansen, the head of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies and an ardent advocate of the idea that man-made global warming is a catastrophe in the making. The audience burst into applause when Theon called Hansen an "embarrassment." In 1988, Hansen launched global warming as a public policy issue in his testimony before a congressional committee. Theon admitted that he actually couldn't have fired Hansen, who had powerful political protectors, most notably then-Senator and later Vice President Al Gore. So had Theon tried to do it, it's much more likely that he himself would have been out on the street rather than Hansen.

Theon told the audience that while he remained silent on the issue of global warming when he retired from NASA, he now felt he needed to speak out. "This whole thing is a fraud," said Theon. "We need to educate the public about what we're going to get into unless we stop this nonsense." The nonsense being the deleterious effect that carbon rationing would have on economic growth and jobs.

Next up was Christopher Monckton, a former advisor to British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher. Monckton delivered a high energy stem-winder mocking global warming "bedwetters" and praising the conference participants for their courage in opposing the activists' global warming juggernaut."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2204650/posts
...-

"Gallup Poll: New High - 41% of Americans ‘now say global warming is exaggerated
11 03 2009

EXCERPTS FROM GALLUP - complete poll story here

PRINCETON, NJ — Although a majority of Americans believe the seriousness of global warming is either correctly portrayed in the news or underestimated, a record-high 41% now say it is exaggerated. This represents the highest level of public skepticism about mainstream reporting on global warming seen in more than a decade of Gallup polling on the subject."
http://wattsupwiththat.com/

Hmmm. How much more CO2 is created by cold weather? Think how much CO2 is produced by having to raise the temperature in homes, businesses, hospitals, schools, and factories to a liveable temp (approx 68).

Think also of all the CO2 produced by having to remove snow from vast numbers of parking lots, runways, city streets, highways and interstates every time it snows - or having to dispense tons of salt and sand when we get ice.

The solution to the CO2 "problem" is global warming:)

Ian:

Not that I disagree with your main thrust, but I have to say, Canute gets a bad rap. He marched out into the sea and told the waves to hold back to prove to his courtiers that his powers were limited. So many people trot out this anecdote as proof that Canute was an idiot or power-mad, when in fact, he was exactly the opposite.

4TimesAYear *exactly*.

We see the same garbage with CFL bulbs, where the published savings that the consumer can achieve by using them fails to take into account that incandescent bulbs provide heat in the winter.

Therefore in places like Canada, the savings from using CFL bulbs in a well-insulated home is greatly exaggerated. While there may still be some *small* net savings, it is not worth it given the crappy light that CFL bulbs produce.

http://www.klimadebat.dk/forum/attachments/feb.gif
TNX Drd

This appears to be the global temperature anomaly for 2002 to 2008. The downward lines certainly indicate that the warming trend has slowed during this period. I would like to see a linear regression of the previous 7-year period, and the one before that, to see if there is consistency.

max2: I won't comment on Monckton, his foibles are well-documented and easy to find. As for Theon, he was on the leading edge of climate change advocacy in 1991:
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19910016130_1991016130.pdf (page 6). Maybe he forgot, along with the fact that being the Radiation, Dynamics, and Hydrology Program Office Manager, he wasn't even in the same NASA department as James Hansen (the Goddard Institute for Space Studies). But that's neither here nor there.

Shannow: I didn't think this winter was particularly long or harsh either (so far), but I know some folks in Winnipeg who would heartily disagree.

Ian: I doubt you'll find a ten-year-old who doesn't know the benefit of CO2 on plants, and I'm sure you believe that coal is 'clean', but neither has nothing to do with AGW.

Finally, Western Canadian (no, I didn't forget about you), I call Godwin's law. You lose.

"The solution to the CO2 "problem" is global warming:)"

HAR!
And the solution to stupidity is natural selection.

One of these we actually can do something about.

BTW - 4Times ..... that's not a shot at you .... I really do like your comment.

It's just good to keep a few solutions in play while things go to hell.

One thing about the AGW debate I've always found interesting, is even if I accept the worst case scenario, I don't see that much risk in a few degrees of warmth over a century or so.

Who gives a rats ass? Who gets to determine the ideal temperature of the planet, and would the folks in Alberta and Fiji agree on that number?

This whole ridiculous story started out as a chase for grant money by scientists in dire need of crisis to help finance the new boat and the pool. Then it was picked up by the global socialists as a way to control the bumpkins and help finance whatever the hell they pay for.

10 year olds' use to be taught that the sun warmed the earth. Guess that's just old school.

One thing about the AGW debate I've always found interesting, is even if I accept the worst case scenario, I don't see that much risk in a few degrees of warmth over a century or so.

Who gives a rats ass? Who gets to determine the ideal temperature of the planet, and would the folks in Alberta and Fiji agree on that number?

This whole ridiculous story started out as a chase for grant money by scientists in dire need of crisis to help finance the new boat and the pool. Then it was picked up by the global socialists as a way to control the bumpkins and help finance whatever the hell they pay for.

Gary they've countered that with the oceans swallowing up the land.
Momma Gaia is all knowing 'ya know!
This whole GW/CC cult is just another ponzi scheme on a world wide basis, but we'll be getting the debt via taxed to the max.

Like AtlanticJim's and several others, my report is anecdotal. I'm in Nanaimo, just an hour north of Victoria.

In a 'typical' year, we'd be starting to see snowdrops, crocus, early daffodils and even a few early cherry blossoms starting to show.

Instead, the lake across the road is still solidly frozen and we still can't find our lawn due to snow - as has been the case for nearly three months.

Last night was a record low, breaking the previous low temperture, set in 1951. I've been here 15 years now and the 'trend' over the last few years, appears to be both longer and colder winters.

Then it was picked up by the global socialists as a way to control the bumpkins and help finance whatever the hell they pay for.
Posted by: Gary in Kansas at March 12, 2009 1:25 AM

Indeed. It's no coincidence the entire global warming scam took off with a vengeance in the early 90s, in the immediate aftermath of the fall of the Soviet Union.

With communism failing, another "ism" needed to be embraced by the deluded left to counter capitalism. Never mind that capitalism has created the most modern, long-lived, healthy and prosperous civilization in the history of mankind. It still must be bad.

Scratch a lefty, find an idiot.

"Those who don't know the difference between weather and climate should limit their observations and comment to the former."

Agreed. Also, those who wish to whip up media frenzy, public panic and encourage a state of fear should have to fully disclose their agendas and if taxpayer money funds their research. Additionally, they should release the scientific methods for their conclusions, engage in public discussion (including those that are in disagreement with their theory), disclose how much of their budgets go towards 'advertising' and promoting 'the end is near' meme.

They should also explain how they get such an easy ride in the MSM.