Does anyone really doubt that he was out of his mind? If he can be medicated to prevent this behaviour, whoever was responsible for THAT should be prosecuted. If it was himself, then he should be held responsible for not receiving approriate care. Assuming it was actually accessible, of course. Was it?

Kind of reminds me of the judges who put fathers in jails because of wacko "feminist" psycho-analysts and their unproven theories of repressed memory syndrome. The theory being adult women were feeling depressed as a result of abuse by their fathers but this memory was so horrible it was repressed and forgotten. Judges bought this nonsense when even the major medical establishments never did.

Isn't anyone who kills anyone for any reason a little bit nuts? You have to be nuts to kill someone.

Li admitted guilt to the police after the incident and asked the court to kill him. Who has better judgement: the mentally ill Li or the sane prosecuting lawyer and judge?

The advocates for people with mental health problems should be most vocal.
Does this do anything to encourage trust and acceptance if a mental disorder can be an excuse for anti-social behaviour?

Like I said on an earlier thread, this trial was all about Vince Li, pseudo-victim, not about Tim McLean, real victim.

As I read Charles Adler's very articulate and succinct take on this travesty of a trial, I also realized that this trial was about the omnipotence of the therapeutic chattering classes, the new dispensation in Canada: Always feel sorry for, and let off the hook of personal responsibility and accountability, the socio/psychopath who has killed someone, is dealing drugs, treats others with utter contempt and disdain because, dontcha know?, they're depraved on accounta they're deprived. Psychiatrists are now the new priesthood who grant indulgences to the maladjusted in our midst.

Vince Li is totally responsible for his brutal killing of Tim McLean and the subsequent desecration of Tim McLean's body. Before he committed this crime, Li had been in an institution, was released, and at some point made the decision to go off his medication. That makes him responsible and he should be made accountable.

Instead, we have the two psychiatric goons averring that Li is a "decent" and "gentle" human being. Excuse me? Looking at what Mr. Li did and attaching "decent" and "gentle" to his person is a complete oxymoron and makes morons of these "doctors" who are living in some kind of alternative universe to the one that most Canadians live in -- what Mr. Adler refers to as the "Canadian Mountain."

We have no guarantee that if Li is released from hospital after a spell of rehabilitation, he won't go off his meds again and kill again. He needs to be kept off our streets, buses, and subways for life. He needs to be held accountable for this crime. He may be insane, poor man, but he is CRIMINALLY insane and needs to be found guilty.

What happens when he forgets to take his meds?

Once there was a time when such folk would be incarcerated for the rest of their life.

But these are more "enlightened times." (sarc)

Another issue is what was the responsibility of the officers of the law who arrived on the scene and allowed Vince Li to stay on that bus with a dead body and desecrate it in full view of all of the passengers? I'm a great defender of the right of our police to protect, using force if necessary. So, why did they not use reasonable force to stop Vince Li from desecrating Tim McLean's body over and over again?

Most of the "authorities" in this scenario, from the police, to the court personnel, to the psychiatrists called as witnesses, have totally failed in their responsibilities to the Canadian citizenry: All of them have bent over backwards to accommodate Vince Li and his unfortunate psychiatric illness and have put the "niceness" of Canadians on trial. Woe to anyone who doesn't feel sorry for "poor" Mr. Li and agree to give him a pass.

I can't help but bring up another issue, the utterance of which will cause the courts, the psychiatrists, and our chattering classes to suck in their collective breath and raise a very arched eyebrow: What part has Mr. Li's "diverse, multicultural" status, as a recent immigrant from China, played in his sentencing and in the court's shying away from finding him in any way responsible for this crime? At the very least, he should have been found criminally insane.

A crime was committed. A horrendous, brutal, and inhuman crime. Someone's responsible. And if it isn't Mr. Li, who is it?

wanna off somebody here in canuckistan?

experiment with a shot glass and find out how tanked you can get and still function. practice practice practice.

now sit and wait, stalk the prey and keep quaffing those martinis to keep the blood alcohol spot on. when the prey makes their appearance, run them over and that way you can get off with a very minimum sentence plus for sure a (oh dear) LICENCE SUSPENSION!!! gasp !!!

based on a true story.

I'm finding it somewhat disconcerting that this morning I'm actually finding myself agreeing with the likes of Tom Cruise, albeit for different reasons.

I want to buy a liver. Any takers as to whose, if you get my drift.

We don't have a justice system...it's a legal system, that sucks.

Also...thanks to Adler for filling us in on the details.
No sense even mentioning the laziness of our MSM.
Did anyone read or hear the fact that police and witnesses did not get on the stand at the so-called trial??We find that out from Adler only.

batb...I wonder about the timing re: police interfering. How long did it take for the police to arrive. Sadly it looks like it did not take long for the despicable acts.

Dahmer et al weren't schizo. Li clearly was he shouldn't be incarcerated with the regular prison population but he should also not be relaesed unless we have a very high degree of certainty that he will not degrade into such a state again or anything remotely close to such a state.

The "off his meds" argument is an interesting one - IOW if he consciously stopped taking his meds and then reverted to a full-blown schizo state, is he guilty? (i don't think Li was being treated whatsoever so this argument does not apply to this specific case)

My discussions with people who deal with schizo's a lot is that a very, very high percentage of them stop taking their meds - that the medication only partially stabilizes them and thus going off them still does not make them guilty.

Why have we never heard what Li, was doing with a knife? That reeks of premeditation for so many reasons.
Good for Adler, for saying what so many of us are thinking. Actions however, speak louder than words.

Since the perp fits my own exact definition of real insanity, I can't dispute the result. It would have been useful if the trial had gone into the horrible side effects of anti-psychotic drugs and the need to have those who can't or won't keep taking them under strict control.

Well, a few observations from the prison capital of Canada.

That creature should be locked up in KP(Kingston Pen) for life. There is no way that any "professional" can guarantee that he won't re-offend. This way, they can protect him like they protect Olsen and Bernardo, and they can assure he gets the medical help he needs.(there is a Regional Treatment Centre at KP that is geared for mental health issues).

Sayng that, he will likely end up in a half way house, and be allowed to roam some innocent community, while the doctors who are treating him keep their fingers crossed hoping that the deviant keeps on his meds.

Nobody took the stand not in an effort to hide anything, bluetech, but because it wouldn't matter.

The guy is obviously insane. No if's, and's or but's about it. What would it help to have people take the stand and say, yes, he was crazy, he was eating flesh. How would that help the family?

He'll be away in a mental hospital for a long time. Nobody wants him out.

gord I would argue that the so-called experts hadn't got their acts together in time for Dahlmer et al.

So, why did they not use reasonable force to stop Vince Li from desecrating Tim McLean's body over and over again?

They phoned their boss first off and he/she/it told them to do the multi-culti-tolerance-and-diversity-thingy (nuthin), but shoot anyone else who tries to interfere.

Can you imagine how the family of Tim McLean must be feeling? In my mind just another line between our law and their law.

This quote, from whoever it was, best sums up my feeling of this event and one hell of a lot of others concerning our legal system.

If you want satisfaction go to a whore house, if you want to get F--ked go to a court house.

Just a reminder for the crimonologists, psychiatrists and other bleeding hearts when they tell us all in a few years' time that Li is fit for release...

"The man charged in last night's unprovoked stabbing at a Riverdale streetcar stop had been charged with an identical 2003 attack in the Dufferin Mall, but was found not criminally responsible."

“He was put into the mental health system, released and then went out and did exactly the same thing,” Toronto police Detective Derek Young said this morning. ‘‘This was another completely unprovoked attack.”

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2008/05/21/riverdale-stabbing-suspect-hospitalized-after-identical-2003-attack.aspx

If I may ... now that I read Adler and got pissed right off.

FYI

Crazy people who hear voices are the very people who gave us gods and religions in the first place. That was long before psychiatrists and psychologists were invented.

Many people who hear from a god, hear from a god who apparently has on-going financial problems, that would be the Christian god. Others are told to take over the world, that would be the Allah version who just doesn't want to share his toys.

The wastoid Li, from some Asian dung heap, happened to hear from HIS particular god who wanted to see some 'blood on a bus' since it is now a bit too hard to get his 'snakes on a plane.' Yes, Li's god is the same one who tells Arabs to take over the world. I mean to say ... it IS exactly in the style the Allah god isn't it?

In view of the Allah god's people with their penchant for beheading others, why is this guy considered po' schizophrenic and all the other Islamo whacks are simply considered devout, horny, virgin-crazed young men who just want the Western world to quit bugging them?

In a real country, Li would be considered at least criminally insane and locked up forever.

In an earlier and better time, a good citizen would have pulled out a colt .45 and shot that bastard at the first sign of the knife and the blood right there and then on the bus. Same could be said for the Marc Lepine event in Montreal some years ago.

In the cowardly pretend country of Canada, Li will petted and cared for by compassionate Liberals and eventually set up in a nice little condo where he can live and get a job maybe washing dishes at the local chino dispensary, or what the hell, why work at all, welfare for life will do just fine. After all this is a bus person we are talking about.

Okay, it's morning and I need another drink.

The judge should have found that Li presents a danger to society and that he should be placed in a mental institution for the rest of his life.

He has clearly shown to be a danger to society because he did not take his medication , and in future would probably also fail to take his medication ... hence he is a danger to society ... PERIOD !

"He'll be away in a mental hospital for a long time. Nobody wants him out."

But someone DOES want him out. The psychiatrists who treat him, would like to prove their genius by "curing" him, and if it takes a year, or two, they'll wait until they think he's "no longer a danger to society", and release him. "He's really a nice guy".

And if he re-offends, the psychiatrist will declare on the witness stand, at Mr.Li's second trial,"of course one can't be CERTAIN", but they will have released him nonetheless, and will have no culpability whatsoever if he does re-offend.

Kenneth Bianchi, the infamous Los Angeles Hillside Strangler, after spending a couple of years in Walla Walla, convinced a naive corrections psychologist that he had been mentally ill, and was now better, and should be considered for parole.

He was stopped from applying for early parole only by the actions of State doctors who'd examined him before trial, and knew how dangerous he really was.

Psychiatry is as exact a science as climatology, but without the lovely graphs and charts to prove it. Mr.Li is one naive psychiatrist away from release, especially after a couple of years, when the notoriety has subsided.

If you talk to ten schizos on meds, each one will have a different prescription. They also have just as many names for the diagnosis rather than the stigmatizing schizophrenia. Last ten years the catch-phrase/diagnosis has been called Bi-Polar disorder. These doctors don't care about you or me, only furthering their science. Personally, I think psycology is about as much a science as say alchemy, or sorcery.

John, to blame what Li did on religion is going a little bit overboard and a just a little bit unhinged in its own right. You might want to deal with whatever inner conflicts lead you to such extreme positions. Remember - mental discipline. And a good psychiatrist can help! And ya, the days when a good citizen might have just drawn their .45 were better in a whole lot of ways.

Peace.

This treatment of Li as not responsible due to mental illness is hardly new in Canada. This is how we treat women who murder or abuse their children. We say that they are 'clinically depressed'.

Recall the case a few years ago in Toronto, where a young woman starved her baby to death. Social services had been, apparently, watching over her and totally missed the rather obvious fact of starvation. The mother? Oh, she was let off because she claimed 'post-partum depression' and she also claimed that she shouldn't have been allowed to take the baby home.

Other cases - same thing. The mother may abuse her child to the state of death - and is defined as not responsible due to depression.

Nothing new in Canada.

This is so sick! You cannot force anyone to stay on their meds. This guy should never be allowed to walk the streets a free man. If he is mentally ill, they should lock him up in an asylum for life to keep the population safe. If he went off of his meds once he will go off his meds again. If he killed and partially ate someone - he will do it again. Let him live next door to those shrinks.

Li has only been in Canada for a few years. Didn't any of the geniuses at Immigration Canada ask about his mental or physical health before allowing him to live in this country? Or does the diversity criteria encouraged by the anarchist bureaucrats who administer our immigration policies encourage every misfit on the planet to become a Canadian? Send this nut back to china.

*
"When did we become a Vincent Li country?"

lemme see... how about when we started using taxpayer dollars to give beauty treatments
to violent criminally-insane rapists being held in a psych-facilities... who now want to
be women?

"Wearing a skirt and high-heeled shoes, Taylor -- formerly named Vance Egglestone until
she got a legal name change -- began transitioning into a female in 2000, with extensive
hormone therapy, nose surgery and $15,000 worth of permanent hair removal."

yup, i'm thinkin'... right about then.

*

You're right, ET. Canada has a small, select group of pass-Go, collect $200 citizens, depending on what victim group they're a part of: poor, downtrodden, and abused women who abuse and/or kill, can't-help-it mentally ill folk who go off their meds and commit a crime, and anyone who's part of a visible/diverse/"multicultural" minority, excluding, of course, white, Judeo-Christian, Anglo-Saxons whose families have been in Canada for generations and are responsible for building our democratic public institutions -- because we all know, tch, tch, that they belong to an "historically privileged" group who don't deserve to pass Go or collect anything. They've had their day in the sun.

Justice should be totally blind but we all know that in Canada this isn't the case. There are different kinds of "justice" and you just hope that if you're hauled before a judge you can prove your victim bona fides, otherwise you're fried.

'Looks like Vince Li won the Victimhood Sweepstakes: He's a Chinese immigrant, he's schizophrenic, and he's definitely a member of a visible minority.

Vince Li's going to be able to pass Go and collect $200 over and over again -- for life.

What justice (sic) will there be for Tim McLean's family?

He said his God told him to do it - accomplice. So hang his God. Or is he mental also ?

Li is clearly nuts. Fair enough. Straightjacket on, and off to a padded cell.

But Tim McLean was the victim here.

Also, I'd be interested to know how many able-bodied men were on that bus and why they never rushed Li.*

Anyone have an idea?

* Mention of Marc Lépine (AKA Gamil Gharbi) brings up the awkward question of why the men at the École Polytechnique didn't just rush that murderous nutbar either.

It would have taken one tough Dude to confront Li. And would have likely ended up in a fight to the finish. Even if the Dude won, would he have then been charged with murder ? Ya think !

jjm...when the story came out there were reports of men who were originally not passive, and actually cleared the bus to protect others. They have suffered. There was nothing they could have done. Let's not go there.
And john, your story about your bad experience with religion is sorely misplaced here.

neo...if I recall you had info about Li's 'record' before the bus trip, another item ignored by the lazy media and so-called justice system.
Seems the experts are protecting the experts.
any links neo?

OK, JJM. This is my take on why Gamil Rodrigue Gharbi, aka Marc Lepine, and Vince Li were not rushed. If the "able-bodied" males on both scenes had sprung into action, many deaths could have been averted.

Our secular humanist educational (sic) system has been grooming cowards -- moral pygmies -- since the '60s. In order to put yourself in harm's way you have to believe that there is a reality that is bigger and nobler than you. This is the vision of the Judeo-Christian faith upon which our Canadian democracy was founded and which, until the Godless '60s and onward, undergirded our educational system.

"Without a vision the people perish." Now that the Judeo-Christian faith has been trashed in our "educational" institutions, in the media, and in the public square, most of our young men are armed only with the humanist "truth" that there is no higher power governing our lives, that we are not our brothers'/sisters' keeper, that we are "it," what's the point in "standing up like a man?"

Why would anyone put oneself in harm's way to help someone else? What would be the use of sacrifice, of laying down one's life for another? When it's all about "me," then my life is paramount and I have to run from any threat to my sacrosanct, precious, me-centred life.

What we've been breeding in our schools and institutes of "higher learning" are lily-livered, self-centred, nobody-matters-but-ME, cowards. I see them every day in classrooms and on our streets, buses, and subways.

Be scared. Be very scared. We're going to see an increase in this kind of moral depravity.

Having made a general diagnosis of why everyone ran and/or hid in both the Polytechnique and Greyhound bus scenarios, it's fairly clear that it would have been extremely difficult for a group of men to rush Li in a cramped bus aisle. On the other hand, there wouldn't have been any place for Li to run in the bus, and wouldn't it have been possible, then, for four or five men to have overpowered him?

I'm sure all of the people on that bus are thoroughly traumatized by what happened, but one does wonder what could have been if Li had been rushed by several men.

Then, one wonders why the police, with all sorts of resources at their disposal, didn't do something to disarm him? There seem to be a lot of unanswered questions here, but the trial is over.

Why?

I wish I could think of something more to say, but I'm pretty well burned out on this story.

As ET say's, post-partum has been a stay out of jail card for many years in this society. The difference is, post-partum is a well recognized condition. My ex-wife had it, but the only person she came close to killing was me. Many of these women commit these acts well outside the time frame associated with post-partum, but doctors are still willing to swear they were not responsible.

When I was about 6, our cat ate her newborn kittens. My dad shot her immediately. I didn't figure it out for about 10 years. I have no doubt that he would not have hesitated to do the same to a woman who ate her young.

Vince Li should do the right thing. Swallow his tongue.

"Mention of Marc Lépine (AKA Gamil Gharbi) brings up the awkward question of why the men at the École Polytechnique didn't just rush that murderous nutbar either."

It would have been a LOT easier if they'd been "packing".

"Not criminally responsible"?

Fine, then we euthanize it! In fact it would be a kindness to do so.

Now that the trial is over I presume the passengers on the bus can now have their luggage which they couldn't get initially because it was being held for evidence - our justice system is broke.
Nobody uses common sense anymore.

Li had been advised to seek help from a psychiatric nurse friend according to what I read at the time. The police never entered the bus because the victim was definitely dead. There was no one to protect therefore no need to kill him. They don't know if he is high, nuts or what but he isn't going anywhere. He will probably end up in the Psych. Center in Saskatoon.

The prosecutors are hiding something. Something happened in the course of this event, and its investigation, that they want to bury. They knew a trial would expose the details, and they sacrificed justice for their reputation.

Maybe the RCMP needed some cover. They've been taking a lot of heat recently. No trial, no evidence, no witnesses. The story was supposed to go away, but this tactic will backfire. I predict, before the end of next week, someone will dig up the real dirt on this case.

This whole story makes me sad to be Canadian. We're such pussies. Since we won't kill him (give him what he wants), we'll just put him away for life and charge taxpayers. Oh wait, that won't even happen. No, we'll put him up at an 'institution' and try to 'rehabilitate' him. He will eventually find god (again - but this time he won't talk to him and tell him to kill people), and will be sorry for what he did, and then he will be released back into society. He could be sitting next to you on a Greyhound bus nine years from now. Another thing - to all the tough guys who say they would've helped poor Tim if they'd been on that bus: you don't know what the fuck you would've done until you're in that situation. I'm not a coward, but if I saw that, I think I'd run for my life. Call it self-preservation.

Are our judges promoting no other alternative than vigilantism?

I can't speak for others but knowing myself I would have taken a tire iron or whatever I could swing for leverage and went at Li and I wouldn't have stopped until his head was a bloody pulp. I wonder how the police officers can look at themselves in the mirror for standing by and doing nothing.

So let's see if I have this correct. In 2002 this lunatic is allowed to immigrate to Canada because supposedly he had something to offer the country. He doesn't work and in 2004 is placed in a mental hospital and in 2005 because he is such a value to the country he is given citizenship. I want to know why the lunatic wasn't deported when his mental condition became know.

dastardly- We're allowing hundreds of known HIV positive immigrants into Canada. What's the big deal about a few psycho-killers?

I would like to see a national referendum on bringing capital punishment back, it should never have been taken away as an option.

Maybe I'm too practical but wouldn't a better way be, to hold a trial to determine if individual A did said crime or not. Having once determined whether individual A did said crime then consequences are applied. Whether the person is mentally able to determine right from wrong or not should not be considered until it is time to determine incarceration. If you are guilty of say murder, and sane you go to regular jail for the rest of your life. If you are guilty of murder and insane you go to a specially designed psychiatric ward for the rest of your life. It wouldn't be for punishment but rather for the protection of other innocent individuals.

I have no trouble believing that Li was insane but I also know that because of his insanity he is a high risk to re-offend. If Li were kept in a specially designed psych ward he would have no opportunity to re-offend and the rest of society would be just that much safer.

Having dealt with whack job tenants when I worked in property management, I have no tolerance for nut cases; you simply cannot begin to predict/guess what they will do! It may seem cruel and heartless, but a nut case like Li is better off dead for us and for him. Locking him up for life is a waste of his life, our money and runs the risk of some official pronouncing him "cured" and "no longer a danger" at a some future date.

Yes, batb, you're right - the real issue here (I'm not sure why you keep talking about it?!) is that the police didn't board the bus to keep him from doing whatever it was that he did to the dead body. I love how everything is turned around on the police. Let's focus on the issue and quit blaming the police for everything.

What would we be talking about if they did board the bus, like you would have liked them to, and one or more of them were hurt or killed?

What the police did or didn't do, didn't change the outcome of this horrible tragedy.

Perhaps our immigration people should have look at getting this criminally insane humanoid sent back to his place of origin with a complete history of his time spent here and the medication he will need to keep their population safe. He may have Canadian citizenship but this murderous act should be grounds to revoke it.

I believe the reason authorities didn't want a trial with witnesses was because during a trial all grisly details would come out including the reprehensible conduct of police enforcement officers who stood by while the animal inside the bus gorged himself on organs of the victim . Li is certainly not a victim despite the best efforts of MSM to portray him so.

John - well analyzed and your perception of the psychiatric community is mine also. People who hear voices, like Joan of Arc, have always been suspected as being Evil Devil woshipers/Lunitics or proclaimed as saints; depending on the side that they choose to say is on God's team and depending on the outcome of the conflict. They are glorified or burned at the stake; or both. This Li guy was not a Christian, he was not 'hearing' from God; he was hearing from 'the other guy' in the cellar called hell, IMO. God, as I know Him does not get involved in multi human activities via one person, He is there to help people through life when He is asked for help. IMO, Li is a fanatic and he was firing a warning shot over the bow of Canada the message came from living people who are also fanatics. The underlying message was: 'Your lives in Canada will be forever changed by the toleration/ acceptance of the values of extreme Islam. We behead, we torture, we bury people alive, we stone people to death, we kill woman who 'show their faces to men' , we kill men who have sexual relations with other men, and we DEMAND obedience from all people under the banner of Allah. As long as people criticise our believes and fail to abide by the law of Allah they will have random attacks in places that they feel secure and safe (buses, trains, plains, resturants, vehicles, their houses etc)' Horror is a negative, passive reaction to an egregious act of evil; anger and vengeance are non passive and dangerous to the criminals who perpectuate evil - the latter has kept the 'hounds at bay' for many years in our frontier nation. This man would have not been alive to sit in court 50 years ago because the police or a passenger or a local would have shot him. Horrendous deeds like the abomination on that bus would have been stopped.

Murders and killings did occur 50 years ago and have never stopped but people did not stand by while the murder ate pieces of the person murdered. Planned murders did not happen in full public view because there were death consequences for that action.

Li did not murder Mr. McLean for a personal reason - he murdered him for for another, agenda driven reason, IMO.

I feel terrible for the people on that 'black' bus and words cannot discibe the pain and outrage that I feel for the family and friends of Tim McLean. I felt terrible for them and my country the day I heard about this abomination, now that all of us have been betrayed and denied Justice for Tim McLean I am justifably outraged at the courthouse useless, publically paid, weak, mindless fools.

I do not have any compassion for Li because he is a human not a wild animal; the latter have the right to hunt, kill and eat the kill as deemed by nature. I do not ever listen to the psychologists - they twist human souls - why would a courthouse ever consider the testimony of a psychiatrist when a young man, in his own country, had been murdered by a foreigner who did not even know him? I don't believe there were any phychistists at the Nuremberg Trials and I don't think they brought in any for the Klu Klux Clan boys when they tormented people they did not know - why is this Li guy treated so 'special'?

Like you, Albert, I think Li should have been deported back to China. He should have been stopped while he was on the bus but he should never be kept in this country as a constant reminder of ghastly horror and the failure of Justice; for the well being of Mr. McLean's family and for the sanity his countrymen. It is just too much to tolerate - Li alive and well with all the pampering and feeding and watering, that our taxes can buy, and Mr. McLean is 'living' in on our uneasy consciences all the time - and every time we watch anyone board a greyhound bus, the vision of that dreadful night on another greyhound bus presents itself to our imagination. The 'ghost' of Tim McLean will not rest...his life has been declared 'worthless' by the bigshots in a courtroom and his foul murderer is being held up as a victim. This will never go away because our country has allowed the wrong side to win. IMO.

I knew this was going to be the verdict as soon as I heard about the murder. Just as I know that any poor Good Samaritan who killed Vincent Lee while trying to get him off Tim McLean, whether before or after Tim was dead, would be charged with murder and have his life ruined. Duh.

Why do you think all those people ran off the bus instead of helping the poor kid? They knew they weren't allowed to do anything.

We live in a POLICE STATE. As in, when sh1t happens you wait for the police, otherwise you'll definitely be arrested. Charles Adler is friggin' 20 years behind the curve here.

You want that to change? Stop voting for socialists. If the MP or MPP in your riding is a Liberal, NDP or Red Tory, defeat them. Cast them out.

I have read and reread the comments so far written here. I, too was not surprised by the verdict but certainly dismayed. I know that they say this was not premedicated, that a sociopathic cant premeditate but I still have to wonder.
This man left a note for his exwife, got on the bus using another name, had the knife and scissors with him, burned or sold all of his belongings. He originally sat at the front of the bus but after the last smoke break immediately took his stuff and went to the back of the bus to sit beside Tim.
I dont think Li knew Tim or that Tim was his chosen victim to begin with, but he certainly could have been sizing up his victim at that smoke stop?? We now know that Tim, God Bless Him, was small in stature, unlike most of the other males that we have seen so far that were on that bus.
I think (and Im sure all H will break out on this after ive said it) that Mr. Li had every intention to kill someone on that bus...and poor Tim was the person that he thought he could best handle.

My brother said something in 1964 that I've never forgotten. "If a Chinaman looks you in the eye, he has a weapon". He was the first in our family to travel abroad, and when he told stories, people usually thought he was joking. I've learned over the years that he was deadly serious about these things.

This killing had a cultural aspect to it. Chinese men do some very strange things to save face. When this story first surfaced, there was an account of Tim McLean speaking to Li, at the request of a female passenger. That story has conveniently evaporated. It's time to get all these accounts out in the open.

The Chinese community was embarassed by this incident, and tried to divert attention to Mr. McLean. The story that circulated immediately was that the victim was part native, and therefore must have provoked Li. (I get this stuff first hand from someone who speaks the language).

I respect the Chinese community, but sometimes they are hard to figure out.

Unfortunately, persons with schizophrenia do not take their meds because they believe them to be an attempt to poison them - part of the mental illness. If placed in a group home, persons with this horrible mental illness receive their meds under supervision. Persons with this illness can have moments of clarity and lucidity which is why he wanted to die after he realized what he did. It needs to be stated that most persons with this disorder are not violent or murderers. It all depends on how long the person has the illness and to what degree. A lifetime in a mental institution is on par with prison, if not worse. My guess is he will commit suicide or acquire another mental illness/disorder that will allow him to detach from the first one. I highly doubt he will ever be sane unless given a good dose of abogaine which is great for any addiction or mental illness - seems to reset the brain, but scientists do not understand how this African hallucinogenic psychoactive root/flower/fruit accomplishes this. Albogaine has been coined the original fruit of the Knowledge of Good and Evil tree that Adam and Eve ate the fruit from. This drug also seems to alter a persons brain and possibly their genetic makeup - has a very long half life and remains in the system for up to 5 months. Very interesting read on the drug studies and stories of those who have used this drug for addictions or self discovery.

So let's see if I have this correct. In 2002 this lunatic is allowed to immigrate to Canada because supposedly he had something to offer the country. He doesn't work and in 2004 is placed in a mental hospital and in 2005 because he is such a value to the country he is given citizenship. I want to know why the lunatic wasn't deported when his mental condition became know.
Posted by: dastardly at March 7, 2009 2:58 PM

it's because him and others like him vote lieberal

yepitsme: "What the police did or didn't do, didn't change the outcome of this horrible tragedy."

Sorry. I disagree. When they arrived on the scene, they could have kept Vince Li from further desecrating Tim McLean's body. Maybe you don't care, or don't think it matters that a body is mutilated and treated with utter disrespect, but his family cares and so do I.

That the police officers stood by and did nothing is inexplicable to me. And, as I said above, I am sympathetic to the police for the most part.

Man, some of you folks are quick to weigh in when you don't know that the frig you're talking about. Assuming all kinds of things about the psychiatrists, like that they're liberal, that they're convinced they can cure the guy, like they'd just take any old murderer and testify that he's not criminally responsible, that being actual eyewitnesses actually would have - or should have - changed their opinion. All kinds of things about Li. All kinds of things about schizophrenia, and about how the law handles mental illness.

This medium, I swear, sometimes it provides for nothing more than the pooling of ignorance. Listen, you twits: schizophrenia is not like psychopathy or sociopathy (which are basically synonomous, and which tend to be the way brutal killers who aren't actually crazy are designated). Schizophrenia (when the patient is in a florid psychotic state) is madness, bona fide craziness. By any reasonable standard, it can easily (and often does) render a person incapable of appreciating the ramifications of his actions, although thankfully, his actions are usually just incoherent and bizarre rather than deadly.

Do you jokers think that this is possible, in principle? If not, on what basis? If so, why the automatic supposition that the principle doesn't apply to Vince Li? Because what he did was really, really gross? Right - and I guess the grosser the action gets, the more sane the person who did it must have been. That makes a whole lotta sense. Geez.

You guys gotta get a clue before you go condemning a man who by all indications had zero control over his actions, and would be as horrified by them as anyone else if he were in his right mind - and he probably will be, for whatever portion of the rest of his life the illness allows him to have enough sanity to grasp what he has done. Compassion is called for here, and don't assume that whenever someone says something like that, he must be a bleeding-heart liberal. Schizophrenia is a horror, always for the one who suffers from it, always for his family, and sometimes, tragically, for innocent strangers who are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Man, conservatives can be idiots sometimes. (And I happen to be one of them.)

I have to say in defense of the people who did not "rush" this guy is that they did do the right thing by making a hasty retreat. I know a few things about weapons fighting especially with blades. In a narrow bus aisle against a nutbar with a very large knife you would have almost no chance of getting away unscathed. You would probably get killed in a nasty painful way. If more than one person tried to rush said nutbar the guy in front would most certainly get killed in a nasty painful way. Now if this happened in a a more open area 2 or 3 guys could disarm the bad guy and contain him.

As to why the police didn't board the bus and just shoot the guy I have no idea. I would think that shooting the guy would be the first option on their list.

DrPhil: In that closing sentence, you should be more specific about which adjective you're applying to yourself.
(Actually I don't totally disagree with you. But try being civil.)

Noun. I'm sleepy. Point remains.

One of them, from time to time. The other, nearly always. :) Civility isn't always effective.

Say doc, if schizophrenia isn't like psycho or socialpathy, then what is it like?
just askin

Neither is compassion, phil.

You need to shut the f**k up, and listen, this time. A lynchmob is forming, for good reason. Society has been assaulted, and this decision has added insult to injury. We all know he's crazy. We don't care. He has to be destroyed, or permanently detained.

Letting him loose in a couple of years will create a situation much worse than you can imagine. It will put some well wishing people at risk of becoming criminals, by defending themselves against this semi-human.

Is it possible to be both sick and evil? Adler mentions Dahmer and Manson. Ever turned on the TV and watched Charlie give a speech? He's palpably both.
People are concerned that this eyeball-eater (?!) Li might get let out one day (although honestly, would it be less likely if he were in regular prison? When's Paul Bernardo's parole hearing?)
It goes without saying (cliche) that most schizophrenics are not killers. This guy is one.
And DrPhil: Call us twits/jokers/idiots, we'll call you a troll. Nobody wins.

I see Dr, Phil ( DrPhil at March 7, 2009 6:27 PM ) has just analyzed all of us on this forum. He says: ....we are all idiots ..... we don't know what we are talking about .... this forum is a pooling of ignorance ..... we are all twits .... we are jokers ...we don't have a clue .... we should all have compassion ... !!

Dr Phil , I think you are one of Mr. Li's court appointed psychiatrists , right here amongst us.

I vote that you take complete responsibility for his future care. All you need is a bottle of the right pills. Keep him in your spare bedroom to monitor him . Corrections Canada should pay you $60,000 a year for your trouble.

If you are willing , it is at that point I will begin to take you seriously. Same goes for anyone in the psychriatic profession in Canada who would be willing to Have Mr. Li nearby for the next 25 years.

Many thanks.

doc
Compassion for someone who sawed the head off of some poor traveler trying to get some sleep.My compassion extends to the victim,not to the schitzo,psycho,sociopath,or whatever feel good label you want to use.

Doc..the only thing I can agree with you is your final statement in paragraph,and not the one that you claim you are a conservative,the other one.

Same goes for anyone in the psychiatric profession in Canada who would be willing to have Mr. Li nearby for the next 25 years.....

...Can I volunteer one...

Two shrinks that testified in Vincent Li murder trial have very interesting credentials.

Dr. Jonathan Rootenberg is known for his usefulness to Ontario Crown, he is even mentioned in a book on criminal evidence as bad character see:
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/view.php?id=1017475&da=y
"McWilliams' Canadian criminal evidence- S. Casey Hill ... et al - 4th
ed. 2004 - p.12-60.1.bmp"

Dr. Stanley Yaren is also known for his usefulness to Manitoba Crown and local psychiatric communitye, specially after he arranged Zyprexa pump and dump “suicide” of Paul Laurent Joubert, who most likely murdered his parents (both were medical doctors), as result of taking psychotropic drugs, just read inquest report at: http://www.manitobacourts.mb.ca/pdf/joubert_inquest.pdf.

Once you have two hatchet shrinks on the case it does not take much imagination to figure out that the case they work on must stink to high Heavens.

All press reports I read about this case stress the fact that Vincent Li was never seeking medical help for his mental health problem prior to murder. Considering the fact that he was hospitalised at William Osler Health Centre in September of 2005 I find it hard to believe that he would stay away from all the doctors.

Health Insurance is administered provincially and in Ontario it requires a proof of six months residency in order to get the coverage and I would guess that in other provinces rules are similar.

Considering Vincent Li's frequent moves from one province to another it is safe to assume that he did not have any health insurance prior to the murder he committed on a Greyhound bus. That being the case it was unlikely that he would have been able to see family doctor no matter how hard he tried, getting an appointment with a psychiatrist would have been even less likely.

Zyprexa that he was treated with, while he was kept at Osler Health Centre is extremely expensive and considering Vincent Li's lack of funds and his complete lack of medical insurance it would have been impossible for him to get it.

Other than suffering from schizophrenia Vincent Li was also very depressed by his situation. SSRI antidepressants are relatively inexpensive, very popular and they are much easier to get than atypical antipsychotic and it seems to me quite plausible that Vincent Li might got a hold of them and used them before the murder.

SSRI (Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) antidepressants prevent reuptake of neurotransmitter serotonin
( see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSRI) and when there is more serotonin available in synaptic clefts neural transmission rates increase and this is why antidepressants are very effective in increasing visual and auditory hallucinations in schizophrenics.

If that was the case Vincent Li must have hallucinated like never before and worse still antidepressants also made him feel invincible.

In short it seems very likely to me that Vincent Li decapitated, dismembered and cannibalized of 23-year-old Tim McLean because somebody gave him wrong psychodrug.

That would explain why Canadian psychiatric community delegated two hatchet shrinks to cover up this public relation disaster.

Schizophrenia is a psychotic disorder, which means it involves a fragmentation of the mind in which one's hold on reality, and one's ability to guide his behaviour rationally, are disrupted catastrophically. This is not the case for psychopathy (sometimes called sociopathy), in which the person does not lack rationality and awareness of the implications of his actions, only conscience and empathy. (Ironically, not unlike the stance of some of the commenters to this thread. Call me a troll if you like; I only describe what I see.) Dp: compassion is never out of place, and is never not warranted. It just shouldn't be unhooked from reason and prudence, which is the error into which our liberal friends fall regularly.

Speaking of which, I never said the guy should not be detained for life. In fact, it seems likely that's the best course. To "destroy" him is simply and inarguably immoral. If you're inclined to dispute this, see ref. to conscience and empathy above.

Is it possible to be evil and sick at the same time? Yes, but one must attend to what one means by "sick". It is possible to be sick enough that one's free will and capacity to understand his actions are right out of commission, in which case he cannot be considered culpable for the act, no matter how evil its effect. This was decidedly not the case for Manson, or Dahmer, or Bernardo. It pretty clearly was for Vince Li.

Tim McLean, God rest his soul, was destroyed by a monster. But that monster was schizophrenia, not Vince Li. Wanna redress the injustice of his death? Find a cure, or donate to somebody that will. "Lynchmob". I mean, really.

By the way, I never called all of you idiots. Only the ones talking out your arseholes. And I'm not a psychiatrist.

But you play one on TV.

but doc, isn't that really an act of passion? Which most murders are.
I believe that manson, dahmer, pickton and them have God complexes, they're rare and apparently thorough nutbars, but vince is a onetime creature and maybe more..?
Isn't that the real problem?
I suggest that someone like vince be put into an extremely rough prison place and have the shit beaten out of him until he's dead or he smartens up.

If he can be rehabilitated enough to enter society it would seem to me he is well enough to go to prison for the murder he confessed to.

Several points continue to trouble this observer.

First of all, Li was supposed to have taken a day off his bus trip in the town of Erickson, MB before his fatal encounter with Tim McLean.

What happened in Erickson, did Li obtain illegal drugs there, and as a result, slip into this reported psychological state? If so, are there criminal acts to be considered in terms of supplying the man with the illegal drugs with perhaps foreseeable consequences?

The other really troubling aspect of the verdict is that it places a burden on the McLean family, suggesting that they will have to keep checking on the legal status of Li, perhaps once a year. This is an unreasonable burden that should be avoided by a much longer sentence to a secure facility without any chance for parole or release.

I've got to admit that this case has reduced my already tenuous belief in the concept of a defence like that used here. Either a person is guilty of a crime or not, this introduces a third domain in which one's actions are deemed to be uncontrollable. This in turn invites the excuse that the worst of human behaviour has to be "insane" and therefore not controllable.

Having this excuse clearly plants the suggestion in the minds of violent people that the worse their actions may appear, the easier it will be to get a light sentence.

A more reasonable sentence would have been life without chance of parole, in a secure facility. I don't see how any sane person can ponder the reasonable possibility that Mr. Li will "snap out of it" one day and pose no further danger to society.

Strange isn't it, no one knew or had an inkling this "monster" was living in the mind of the poor innocent Vince Li.
Sorry, all my sympathy is with the dear, innocent victim of this horrific, unspeakable atrocity and his poor suffering family. Who can even think about having a son or any loved one butchered and have sympathy for the perpetrator's mental problem?

What kind of powerful drugs can chase the monster from the mind of this demented creep? Looking at his background he never should have been allowed to remain in Canada. One would think sanity would be among the more important criteria for citizenship.

DrPhil said earlier, "...condemning a man who by all indications had zero control over his actions..."

Well DrPhil, unless you are privy to information that didn't make the net or the MSM, we don't have "all indications" because there wasn't a trial. There was a hearing at which nothing was heard except the opinion of two psychiatrists.

Regardless, this is not a "lynch mob" directed at some lunatic, this is a group of Canadians p1ssed off at the infernal, incredible, unsupportable arrogance of our justice apparatus, at the staggering social cost of allowing people as obviously non-functional as Vincent Li to not only walk the streets unsupervised but to actually immigrate here from other countries.

Not to mention the craven actions of police who won't tazer, pepper spray or even bash with a stick a maniac, in the full sense of the term, in the process of EATING a human being's body, but they -will- taser pretty much anybody else for just looking at them funny. And sometimes they taser them to DEATH, DrPhil, as was the case with that poor b@stard from Poland the other day.

An unarmed guy standing in an airport dies, and Vincent Li doesn't even get a little zap while eating a kid.

Lynch that.

DrPhil my friend, you are the reason things like that are getting common place. You can't think, you can't read what others write, you just feeeeeel. Because of you and the legions of bleeding hearted morons just like you, I can hear about the next beheading/corpse mutilation and know the verdict before the blood is dry.

This is not about Vincent Li. This is about the social cost of letting him in the country, letting him live now that he's killed, and possibly letting him out of hospital someday on "humanitarian" grounds. Its also about the systematic and official suppression of Canadian citizen's God given right to defend themselves against the likes of Mr. Li.

Get thee back to Rabble, the grownups are talking here.

h.ryan at March 7, 2009 2:58 PM

That's what I am expecting how things will go.
So a 'schizophrenia' murderer has no idea what they are doing and therefor above the laws of our country?
WE all MUST remember that, and be prepared.

Batb, I agree with you about the police response, however had they even harmed one hair on his body, it would have been their heads on the line.
They know that better than we do.

Alcoholism is a disease? Kill your spouse, child, inlaws, neighbours and kind quiet strangers then get off on a psych pass, same for 'depression?' Oh please!
Next thing you know, phobias will be a defense.
Our legal system is more schizophrenia than Li's diagnosis is.

Nice work Immigration Canada. Let murderers in to kill our sons and daughters, you overpriced a$$wipes.

IF the man was functioning enough to work and be in an adult relationship, he's responsible for his actions and should be locked in a prison for a very long time. Now he'll be granted the opportunity to ride the buses to do this again, just watch.
Sick state - for sure, that is our legal system.

DrPhil: I'm not condemning Vince Li, I'm condemning a "justice system" that has badly let down Tim McLean, his family, and all of civil society.

I'm condemning the "therapeutic" model of reality (sic) which would have us believe that, with rehabilitation and care, Vince Li might well be back on the street again. The psychiatrists have no proof that he can be rehabilitated, and past experience and common sense would tell us that it's unlikely. I'm with Arnie; let the psychiatrists take Vince Li in -- either that, or stop playing around with the safety of Canadians.

I'm condemning a "niceness quotient" in Canadian society which seems to have turned the focus of this crime from the true victim to the pseudo-victim, the murderer. This idea that we need to feel compassion and sorrow for Mr. Li has made a travesty of justice for Tim McLean.

I'm condemning law officers' failure to act quickly to deter Mr. Li from further desecrating Tim McLean's body.

None of these criticisms are condemnations of the person of Vince Li. They highlight what is wrong with our so-called justice system and ask for a higher standard of justice for victims of crimes such as this one.

batb at March 7, 2009 9:09 PM

Outstanding post.

What a mockery of the justice system! As for Li being some kind of a victim, this is just typical Leftist claptrap.

Compassion minus wisdom produces a fool.

If the killer was schizophrenia, and not Vince Li, let's put schizophrenia on trial. Let's make it illegal to possess it, and charge anyone who knowingly possesses it, guilty of reckless endangerment.

Maybe all those psyco-doctors wouldn't be so quick to attribute it to anyone who claims to hear voices. And maybe it wouldn't be the automatic defense strategy for everyone who goes berserk and kills someone who offends him.

drphil- In case you haven't clued in yet, I'm not convinced this guy is schizo. There's no physical test for this disorder. It's diagnosed by psychological assessment. There are some claims it can be detected by brain scan, but it's not a proven method.

There was a New York mob boss who faked dementia for 10 years to avoid prosecution. If he could keep the US government at bay, Li could easily fool a couple of hacks.

There's a guy in downtown Calgary who's been using the schizo angle to panhandle from frightened office workers for years.

Compassion should be reserved for real victims, not con-men. When people pretend to be crazy to scare me, I get really nasty. It always works.

What the hell is wrong with the (in-)justice system in this country? Lord help us.

To me it seems that Canadian psychiatry has become coercive tool of liberal ideology. Canadian shrinks are slowly abandoning any false pretence that they are out there to heal anybody and more and more they are showing their true colours as enforcers of secularist ideology.

Vincent Li case is such a good example of it; Shrinks fed media so much nonsense about Vincent Li hearing the voice of God that allegedly commanded him to kill his victim.

Vincent Li is a schizophrenic first and foremost and because of his illness he suffers from auditory hallucinations (he keeps on hearing voices in his head). These voices that schizophrenic hear in their heads have nothing to do with God, and everything to do with neural connection between left and right hemispheres of Broca's area and Wernicke's areas of the brain that allow right brain hemisphere communicate with the left brain hemisphere thru fully formulated verbal sentences. Julian Jaynes explained it in his 1976 book “The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind.” See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Jaynes

If we were to assign this voice that Vincent Li hears in his head to someone it would most likely be the voice of his father (male voice) or his mother (female voice) rather than the voice of God, reason being that right brain hemisphere retains memories our early childhood and this is where these thoughts and “the voice” was formulated and where it came from.

Modern psychiatry refuses to deal with these voices by calling them auditory hallucinations and claiming that whatever sick ideas are born in RIGHT HALF OF YOUR BRAIN are garbage that they do not want to hear about and you should not hear it either. They have drugs like Zyprexa (Olanzapine) that work by plugging serotonin and dopamine receptors that are very effective in attenuating neural transmissions and this is why they are so effective in eliminating visual and auditory hallucinations.
But thiese drugs are not a cure, it is like putting you whole body in a cast for a rest of your life because we do not know where is that broken bone.

Benefits of using psychoactive drugs to solve mental problems is blown way out of proportion as it seems that they are effective in very limited circumstances. Whole concept of psychodrugs is monumental mistake and great step back when compared to Freud's couch.

Looking at it from neurological perspective Freud's couch (psychoanalysis and psychotherapy) forces patients to selectively restore and reinforce proper neural pathways in the brain instead of flooding whole brain with this or that chemical in vain hope that it will somehow fix things. Next time your computer crashes try to soak it in vinegar or castor oil and see if that is going to fix it. As stupid as it sounds this is the state of modern psychiatry in North America.

We as society and mentally ill as individuals were much better off while we were keeping mentally ill in straitjackets that forcing chemical lobotomy on them and pretending that we have somehow cured them.

I'm with Karol on this one. Adler would provide a better service ifhe started digging into li's medical past - the stuff that did not come out in trial.

Please allow me to extend the object lesson here, where the trial became all about Vince Li and very little about justice for Tim McLean.

This is the logical consequence of the mantra of "equal rights" in Canada. In our classrooms, for instance, there is very little difference between the "rights" of a bullying, lying, accusing little thug and the "rights" of a teacher who has the responsibility for the teaching, discipline and good order of all 30 students in her/his class.

If there is an "incident," the principal asks the teacher for his/her version of what happened and then brings in the bullying, lying, accusing little thug and asks, "Now, Johnny, you tell us what happened." Equal weight is given to both testimonies, usually with the onus on the teacher to prove his/her innocence. Johnny has his "rights of the child," you know. Forget about any corresponding responsibilities; they're not factored into the U.N. Charter.

The inversion of values in the Deranged Dominion is at the bottom of this misplaced sympathy for Vince Li -- and notice how our chattering classes at all levels, in the courts, in the MSM, are well-versed in the recitation. "Hey," goes the mantra, in which all of our therapeutic helpers are adept, "BOTH Tim McLean AND Vince Li are victims: Tim McLean, a victim of Vince Li's ILLNESS and Vince Li, a victim of his visible minority status and his ILLNESS."

Don't expect the leftoids to be able to distinguish between competing rights. There are no competing rights in Canada. Everyone's equal, all pleas are equal, there's no discernment, there's no common sense, there's no justice that applies. Notice how DrPhil is unable to distinguish between a principle that's been violated -- justice for Tim McLean -- and "condemnation" of Vince Li.

We're seeing the total chaos in our society that "equal rights" has brought about. This court case is only the very tip of the iceberg.

Kyrie Eleison.

I'm surprised I didn't think of it earlier: I don't think it's been mentioned yet, though it has everything to do with the dysfunction of our justice system, which has been hijacked by brainwashed idiots. "When did we become a Vincent Li country?"

IN 1982, WHEN THE TRUDEAU CHARTER WAS SIGNED!

The Charter of Rights (sic) and Freedoms (sic)—Fights and Fiefdoms, as one person has aptly named it—has delivered and enshrined in law rights and freedoms only to selected victim groups, with whole government and other institutional bureaucracies now set up to perpetrate them. That’s a whole load of brainwashing—many of our present judges are the product of this system—repression, and mega $$$.

When one pays attention, one notices that every right and freedom granted to a victim group (homosexuals, blacks, Indians, Muslims, the mentally ill, women, etc.) takes away at least one right and freedom from the rest of us. As a result of the Charter, the biggest and most important right to have been lost is OUR FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

Note that a Charter freedom to a “disadvantaged victim” group actually removes the right of a person of any group considered advantaged (e.g., male, white, Christian) to disagree with the Charter fiat either out loud (e.g., Stephen Boissoin) or by his actions (e.g., Scott Brockie). Let’s also remember Mark Steyn and Ezra Levant.

It’s interesting to note, in the many articles now being written in criticism of Obama, that the so-called “troglodytes”, such as Rush Limbaugh, who are laughed out of the room by the elites—Republican (conservative) and Democrat (liberal) alike—have been altogether correct in their assessment of the US’s own Trudeau.

In Canada, in 1982, who were the people warning that the Charter would be misused to impose state control over our thoughts and actions? My gosh, if it wasn’t those “troglodytes” again! The estimable Ted Byfield and Gwen Landolt were two among many and they’ve been laughed around the block by Canada’s elites for three decades—and been altogether correct in their assessment, while the elites’ stunning idiocy and arrogance have turned Canada into a deluded, dangerous, dysfunctional, very expensive for the taxpayer country.

Kyrie eleison.

I didn't see batb's post until after I posted mine. I think we're on the same wavelength here!

P.S. In Canada, what do the people who opposed the Charter from Day One have in common? I think it would be that most of them were observant Christians. Such people publicly warned of its consequences and spoke out against it—to a largely apathetic public.

I would also posit that Canada began to turn into a Vincent Li country when our Christian beliefs were largely abandoned: a hallmark of the “swinging” sixties, where anything—except orthodoxy of belief or manners (it’s called relativism)—was OK. The Charter has since codified that dangerous mindset and has been used as a battering ram to remove Christianity—and all Judeo-Christian symbols—from the public square.

G.K. Chesterton wrote, “If you don’t believe in something, you’ll fall for anything”. Pop and Marxist culture aren’t much to believe in. But the discernment built on the bedrock of the Judeo-Christian dispensation, which is fast being eroded (including in altogether too many touchy, feely, pseudo-Christian churches), is a fine antidote to the vacuity of our Charter culture. It’s no surprise that the elites are going after the Christians. Interesting . . . they’re going after the Jews too.

And which other major religion gets let off the hook? Talk about moral inversions. This doesn’t lead to any good, IMO.

Yes, Kyrie eleison.

[quote]What the hell is wrong with the (in-)justice system in this country? Lord help us.[/quote]

The system has changed from justice to legal social engineering!

Last summer a law professor (U of Sask) wrote an open letter to the Regina leader Post; his jest was that the legal system MUST consider social values/issues as a paramount value during adjudication.

That type of legal (social) system does not play well in front of a Jury or public opinion.
The media blackout, of criminal cases, practiced in Canada provides cover for this dictatorial abuse by the Court.

Li was "ruled" insane by 3 lawyers (one was the Judge) and 2 speculative experts. This was done without the reasonable insight of a jury or public comment. Right or wrong, justice was not achieved or evident

Mass murderers of "bipolar" patients dressed in white coats disguised as doctors, their psychopathic co-conspirators dressed in black robes disguised as lawyers and judges and their flunkies dressed in rainbow colours disguised as journalists are working hard to scare Canadian into complete and total submission, just check these links:
http://www.canada.com/Teen+recounts+meeting+small+town+Manitoba/1366454/story.html
http://www.calgaryherald.com/Health/Ruling+expected+beheading+trial/1356476/story.html
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Beheader+decent+doctor+testifies/1351816/story.html
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/story.html?id=1360489

Now psychopathic shrinks can go ahead and blackmail all of us for the years to come that if we keep on making big stink about "Canadian Zyprexa Experiment" that resulted in countless deaths of Inuit and contract murders they carry out at CAMH, they will pump Vincent Li full of antidepressants and once he is flying high like a kite and feels "God like" again they will unleash him on the rest of us and watch the mayhem that is sure to ensue.

Only in Canada, country of mental and moral midgets such sick spectacle can take place uninterrupted.

I am wondering if the situation was so surreal that many ppl who witnessed this beyond horrific murder of a complete innocent, went into shock or something. Do not have a clue what I would do in that situation.

The best type of person to have on hand in this type of situation is a psycho/sociopath in my view because this disorder is characterized by a lack of fear, empathy, conscience or morality of any kind. Persons who are psychopaths do not have the startle reaction others do and are able to act other than react. Too bad there wasn't a psychopath sitting next to Li or one very close by.

seems like we have two different laws in this country one for killing government employees and one for killing peons. If Tim was a cop, Li would never see the light of day. It is ironic that the Degeais(spelling) trial is going on at the same time I wonder how many witnesses and how much money will be spent on prosecuting Kurt.

no-name, you're not serious, I hope.

what a bunch of vaginas canada is; a gutless, weak country is all it is

but its the innocent who have to pay

lookout: Abogaine, according to the research I have read, causes people to see themselves as they really are. In Africa they give a person a mirror before administering the root. Personally, I do not think we are to ingest fruit from the tree of good and evil-seemed to cause a huge problem when Adam and Eve tried it.

I came across some info on this drug by accident and was intrigued with its possibilities as well as the comments/stories by persons who have taken it. Especially effective for heroin addiction. Apparently persons stop using heroin after taking a dose of abogaine and without any withdraws. Most people stay off drugs/alcohol. Some quit everything -drinking, heroin, smoking - you name it after one dose. Some, have had other compulsions or mental health issues and they disappeared after using abogaine too. There are a number of You Tube videos on Abogaine. It really is fascinating reading - at least I thought so.

I was being somewhat tongue and cheek. Can you imagine what would happen if Li was given this drug and saw what he really did and who he really is? Personally, I think he will attempt suicide or disassociate in his mind somehow. How else could a person continue living after doing something so horrific?

From what I have heard, a life sentence in jail is preferable to a life sentence in a mental institute, but I have no real hard or otherwise evidence to back up this claim - anecdotal only from center workers. Basically, Li will end up being a guineau pig for every drug/treatment tested or otherwise out there.

lookout: Sorry, I thought you meant my first post! I know its a weird thought psychopath versus schizophrenic gladiator type battle, but when I first heard about this slaying - I thought where is a psychopath when you need one.

A psychopath would have calmly approached Li and attempted to kill him for selfish reasons of course - not because he/she actually cared for the other passengers or Tim - the danger they might be in, but because Li would have been interfering with the arrival at the planned destination. It is a fact psychopaths do not startle or have shock reactions, but neither does a properly trained soldier. However, I would rather have had a psychopath approach Li and possibly be killed than a selfless soldier or "normal" person.

I think the cops were scared or in shock.