failed at his job, thats so funny i laughed my head off

Apparently influencial Muslims don't observe Valentines Day in the same way as infidels.

Muzzammil Hassan is the founder and chief executive officer of Bridges TV, which he launched in 2004, amid hopes that it would help portray Muslims in a more positive light.

As I mentioned when posting this in an earlier thread, his action may create a bit of a setback to his cause.

I wonder if they were acting out a potential script for Little Mosque On The Prairie.

Was his job to create a better view of muslims or a more realistic view?

"Muzzammil Hassan is the founder and chief executive officer of Bridges TV, which he launched in 2004, amid hopes that it would help portray Muslims in a more positive light."

Just another moderate Muslim.

Meanwhile, a British Home Office "official" spokesman had this to say on the barring of Geert Wilders from England:

"The government opposes extremism in all its forms. It will stop those who want to spread extremism, hatred and violent messages in our communities from coming to our country."

Ho! ho! What a jolly mixup!

Come on, this was simply a domestic disturbance, could've happened easily in any ethnic group...

When we refer to Muslims, we should remember that the women of this faith aren't necessarily meant to be included in the discussion.

It's just their way.

As the womens groups have no problem with it, why should we?

What was his tv station motto, "reach out and kill someone,". At least it was only a muslim female, and they are non persons according to the feminist movement, and islam. The muslim community will be able to forgive him, and the feminist movement will chalk it up to a quaint acceptable muslim tradition.

I agree with Kyla. What's the big deal? This kind of thing happens all the time in Canada, and has been accepted for generations. We have not heard what the motive was yet, but of course it was justified. Perhaps she went outdoors without a scarf, or talked to a strange man, or came home 10 minutes late. we all know that's a death sentence for any woman. Gee, people today, complain about everything.

Actually she was filing for divorce for some reason, I mean hey come on what would you do?

funny, just checked CBCpravda and this just hasnt made the headlines.

however, in Canaduh , sentencing circles dont see anything wrong with murdering your children. even with 51 priors.

Well, if he didn't video the beheading and put it up on a website, as some of his more notorious co-religionists have done, then perhaps he can salvage a good news story out of this one.

See? You people are too negative sometimes.

The RELIGION OF PIECE!

Guess the question is how many pieces...

Remind me again why diversity and culturally indiscriminate immigration have intrinsic social value?

Remind me again why group identity politics holsa all cultures as equal.

Oh Please help me here, I need to revalidate my vacuous Lib-left PC dogmatism.

Beheading is so passe. My hometown Windsor,ON. was the site of the first honour beheading in Canada, probably in North America. The honour killing in the name of Allah was over the finances of a new mosque came under scrutiny by a donour, who requested his money back.
The gentleman also spoke out against the radical element within the community,to which he paid for with his life.
I must also point out that Islam gives equal opportunity to all sexes as teenage girls were involved with the beheading.

America Alone.

Perhaps Muslim men will solve the question posed.

Women are precious until they speak up or act on their own behalf without male approval. Beheading is such a culturally sensitive act, not to be viewed with horror. These are just minor disagrements that the infidels don't understand, we are the heathens. This is what you do to people you disapprove of or disagree with. Why talk, when you can kill or maim. Final solution courtesy of the 12th century.

Maybe he was just wanted to avoid the hassle of a divorce lawyer?/sarc.
I will ask the stupid question...where are all the femnazis on this?

I'm sure that these unfortunate beheading's occur across a broad strata of society. More importantly it is paramount that Bridges TV continues to cast a favorable light on our misunderstood Muslim brothers and the odd decapitation here or there is of little consequence.

It's the big picture that matters folks!

Syncro

That sound your hear is a chorus of crickets chirping at NAC-SOW

He'll likely get higher ratings with his new plan, but they'll have to post a warning about violence.

I'm as wary of Muslim immigration as anyone here. That said, I think this particular incident cannot, by itself, be taken as an indictment of Islam, at least not in the absence of more detailed information. The deed was not as clearly motivated by cultural considerations as, say, the slaying of that rebellious Muslim teenager by her family. Muslims offer plenty of other targets. We don't need to shoot at questionable ones.

Pretty sad for the family's children, to say the least.

http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2004-11/2004-11-16-voa70.cfm

Nuzzammil Hassan came to America from Pakistan 25 years ago. He became a successful banker in Buffalo, New York, near the famed Niagara Falls.

While he and his wife were happy to be in the United States, they were upset by the negative perceptions of Muslims, and particularly how this perception might affect their children.

That is how they came up with the idea of Bridges TV. Mr. Hassan's wife challenged him to start it.

Muzzammil Hassan
MUZZAMMIL HASSAN, FOUNDER, BRIDGES TV
"I had no background in television. I didn't know anything about TV. Her comment was, 'you have an M.B.A. (masters degree in business) why don't you write a business plan?'"

And so he did. He quit his job at the bank and for the next two to three years worked almost non-stop in developing an English language television network that offers news and entertainment for Muslims.

Mr. Hassan hopes Bridges TV lives up to its name by uniting American Muslims and by helping non-Muslims overcome the negative images they may have of both Muslims and Islam.

MUZZAMMIL HASSAN, FOUNDER, BRIDGES TV
"There should be a Muslim media so that Muslim

According to Reuters:

Bridges TV founder and Chief Executive Muzzammil Hassan founded the TV network in 2004. According to a Reuters story at that time, "his wife came up with the idea in December 2001 while listening to the radio on a road trip.":

"Some derogatory comments were being made about Muslims that offended her," Hassan told Reuters ahead of Tuesday's launch. "She was seven months pregnant, and she thought she didn't want her kids growing up in this environment."

...............

Well, she doesn't have to worry about that anymore.

"The deed was not as clearly motivated by cultural considerations"

I'm curious what other considerations would have motivated a head hacking headache remedy like this one. Was it disappointment at the last 3 weeks of Obama's presidency? A bad run of numbers on the state lottery? A bladder infection?

I think, before rushing to judgment, a few facts would be useful. After all, is this situation one where this man killed his wife BECAUSE he was Muslim or did he kill his wife AND he was Muslim?

There's an enormous difference. After all, do we assert that Madoff robbed all those people BECAUSE he was Jewish (national treasurer of the American Jewish Congress) or that he robbed AND he's Jewish.

Do priests abuse young boys BECAUSE they are Catholic or...well, I'm sure you get my point.

RSP

"""" Muslims offer plenty of other targets. We don't need to shoot at questionable ones.""""

HUH!!!

this is a perfect example of muslim attitudes towards their women folk

"this particular incident cannot, by itself, be taken as an indictment of Islam"

Agreed. However, added to the infinite number of atrocities incited by the Quran, bracketed by Shariah and exemplified by Mohammad's behaviour, it is very much an indictment of Islam.

I wonder who "Bridges" sponsors are. I am thinking perhaps axe and machete manufacturers.

Hannibal Lectern:
Your attempts at humor are truly pathetic. Read ET's comment and, for a change, think before you write.

Kala, I can’t agree with your assessment that it was simply a domestic disturbance, and could have been any ethnic group.

Islam has a history of horrific violence towards women which appalls most western people. In this case, the accused set himself up as an example of the ‘Moderate Muslim’ and as such was and is exposed to more media and community attention.

The accused in this case, has attempted to portray himself and Muslims as really no different that anyone else.

While it may happen, I can’t recall the last time a ‘prominent conservative’ cut his ex-wife’s head off.

The optics in this case bears close scrutiny, because it looks very similar to what is referred to as an honor killing.

I personally don’t like the term “Honor Killing” because it portrays an excuse for the accused actions.

I suspect the proper term would be “Narcissistic Killing” because it’s not about honor, it’s about the possibility that the world will see the sick sons-a-bitches for what they really are.

ET, how many non-Muslims hack the heads off people with whom they disagree?

Your comments seem somewhat disingenuous because beheading seems to be the execution style of choice of one religious group over the others. The HOW of this murder is not incidental.

In the context of Hassan's TV station to improve the image of Muslims, the fact that he, a Muslim, has apparently carried out this heinous act has, in fact, everything to do with this story.

I concur with ET on this...to a point....
Too much emphasis is put on religion....when the culprit is likely the culture of the country of origin...

The problems surrounding the (Black) Donolleys of Lucan, On was more a cultural thing than religious....tribalism perhaps....

I am still bemused by the Pakistani-Canadian women affecting an Egyptian headdress in the name of religion.

What are you folks obsessing about? Aren't you following the cogent and irrefutable arguments detailing the appalling spread of right-wing racism over at Katsella's site? Wake up! Somebody drew a swastiki over a urinal in the men's room of the Esso station in Punkydoodle's Corners! Fascism is on the rise! Can't you hear the jackboots?

Come on, people! Get with the program! The real hatemongers aren't the terrorists, the professional (and, in polite liberal society, socially acceptable) Jew-haters, the wife-decapitators and the daughter-killers; the real hatemongers are Steyn, Levant, Kate, and all those who have the bad taste to highlight unpleasant correlations!

(And let us not forget the horror of Shaidle on TVO! Oh, the humanity!)

Omar Khadr's not a terrorist, he's a victim! He deserves our sympathy, our compassion, our love. But Aqsa Parvez isn't a victim. No, siree.

You're all, apparently, forgetting the key logic of multicultural leftardism. When a muslim smashes a plane into a building, self-detonates at a mosque, decapitates his wife, plots to do the same to the Prime Minister, calls for all Jews over 18 to be targeted, marches through Toronto calling for the murder of all Jews, or hangs a 13-year-old girl from a construction crane for being rude to an imam, the leftist elite maintains a dignified silence. But when a non-Muslim says, "Hey, I don't know if you folks noticed, but the guy that just smashed a plane into a building / self-detonated at a mosque / decapitated his wife / plotted to behead the Prime Minister / called for all Jews over 18 to be targeted / hanged a 13-year-old girl from a construction crane...well, he just happens to be a muslim", the leftist elite screams "RACISM!!!"

How is it 'racist' to notice a correlation? Was it 'racist' when the (muslim) editor of an Egyptian paper said "Not all muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists seem to be muslims"? And if it wasn't 'racist' for him to notice and say it, why is it 'racist' for a non-muslim to notice and say it?

This is the leftist tyranny of language, hard at work. I'm not aware of any facts that only Christians are allowed to speak.

Am I being racist when I notice that the vast majority of the Canadian soldiers killed in Afghanistan have been white, English-speaking men? Or am I just commenting on what appears to be a trend in observed data? Would it matter whether I was white, brown, or black when I said it? Would my faith (or lack of it) matter?

Can a fact be 'racist'? Or is it just a fact?

How about a correlation? Can a correlation be racist? As Dennis Miller said, when 15 out of 19 hijackers come from the same country and you notice, it's not called "profiling", it's called "minimally observant." Is it racist to notice that 19 out of the 19 came from the same religion? Is that 'racist'? Or is it just "noticing a correlation"?

Is it racist to posit a causal relationship between faith and activity? If so, isn't it racist (or at least, 'ageist') for actuaries to charge higher insurance premiums for younger drivers? After all, in doing so they are pre-judging an individual's likely behaviour on the basis of his membership in a defined group. Aren't actuaries guilty of profiling?

Are life insurance agents discriminatory when they charge higher premiums to smokers than to non-smokers? They do so because there is a documented link between a certain lifestyle choice and mortality. Would it be legal for a life insurance agent to charge higher rates to a sexually active gay man? Why not?

If profiling - which, at its root, is noticing correlations and acting on them - is acceptable for picayune things like auto insurance, why is it unacceptable when we are dealing with national security?

But that's not the reality of Trudeaupian Canada. Some things cannot be said. Refusing to speak about them does not stop them from happening, of course; it just makes it harder to deal with them. The commission of a heinous, abominable act will be ignored by the leftist elite if the person committing it is one of a select group of pre-forgiven minorities who are entitled to a get-out-of-condemnation-free card because they are covered by the left's "soft bigotry of low expectations". The champions of womens' rights will ignore forced marriage, polygamy and honour killings; and the self-promoting, self-congratulatory anti-hate crusaders will scribble themselves into a spittle-flecked frenzy over pathetic internet Nazis, and refuse to acknowledge, let alone condemn, the legions of genuine, and far more committed, Jew-haters stomping through Canadian streets, shrieking like maniacs and promising mayhem.

Commit the act? No problem. But MENTION the act, and you're screwed. Noticing the correlation between faith and violence is punishable if the person noticing it is one of the pre-convicted majority.

The willful blindness of the left to the suicidal insanity of their paradigm is simply mind-boggling.

Anyway, I suppose I shouldn't get my knickers in a twist about this sort of thing. The Ontario HRC certainly doesn't have time to deal with petty things like attacks on mosques, decapitations and honour killings. They've got their plate full dealing with the hordes of slavering hatemongers down at Maclean's Magazine.

If he beat her to death, then I'd call it domestic abuse. Beheading is indicative of an Honour Killing, thus that's how I view it. Chopping off someone's head is not an easy or clean task, he chose to humiliate her after death that's also indicative of an "Honour Killing".

Honestly, you people are getting way too worked up about this. I don't see what all the fuss is about.

Hardly to the point, but: influenTial

Until I hear otherwise, I assume that ET's comment was intended as satire.

Daniel Pipes has been tracking this guy since 2004. Get with the program, children. Dick Wolf isn't creating a new Law & Order SBU - Special Beheadings Unit because gay Episcopalians are knocking each other over in record numbers at Sunday services.

lookout - I maintain my point. The fact that he beheaded his wife does not mean that his killing her was because he was Muslim. It is not and cannot be an indictment of Islam.

No, beheading is not a religious but a cultural mode of behaviour - and, as we changed from the era of 'la guillotine' and beheadings in Tudor England etc...so that culture can change. It's not a religious aspect.

Again, I consider it erroneous to attribute the action of murder to his religion, just as it is erroneous to locate the causality of priestly abuse of children to their religion..and so on.

There are many Catholic priests who do not abuse; there are many Jews who are not thieves, there are many Muslims who do not murder their wives. The causality of behaviour is many cases is psychological and not ideological.

"...No, beheading is not a religious but a cultural mode"

---ET

Funny thing is cultures who are into beheading all have in common one thing; Islam...

So what was your point again?

Ideology, psychology and culture are of course mutually exclusive and in no way influence each other. Rather an exquisite compartmentalization is inherent in all individuals thereby ensuring that all ideologies and cultures are equally admirable.

Any deviant behavior is the product of individual psychology alone.

Yep...that sounds plausible.

Syncro

I agree with ET on this one. If a culture is based on beheading then that is just the preferred metheod of murder. Plus it has a public perception that leads one to think they would prefer that didn't happen to them. We have been sensitized and sanitized but in the end the victim is dead. If a beheader grew up in Watts would they just use a gun?

How is it that he missed the opportunity to broadcast his act? He was right there, in the studio, and didn't bother to roll cameras.

Maybe it was just a random act of domestic violence. When a white guy does something like this, though, it's usually a murder-suicide. I haven't heard of a lot of white guys walking into a police station, and bragging about their crimes. Guilt usually gets the better of them.

I read a comment on another post that really explains this phenomenum. Muslims live in an honour society, while Christians live in a guilt society. When muslims commit a vicious crime like this, no one in their community feels the need to condemn them. When a Christian does something like this, even the most cynical among us feels a twinge of shame.

I think that there's a great muddling of thought here; that is - a lack of logic.

Can you really conclusively say that IF a man who is Muslim kills his wife, THEN, that act is due to his religion?

Wouldn't you have to provide some proof of this direct relation of 'religion-to-act'? This would have to include ratios of Muslims who do NOT kill their wives (vis a vis other religions).

It would also have to include a study of men who are NOT Muslim, who also killed their wives. Did they do so because of their religion?

What about the method? Beheading. Can you make the same direct relation of Islam religion and beheading?

Did Vince Li, who beheaded a young man on a Greyhound bus last year, carry out this act..because..well, he wasn't Muslim.

I'm merely saying that to jump to the conclusion that this man killed his wife because he was Muslim, is illogical. Furthermore, the method does not mean that IF one beheads, THEN one must be Muslim. Lots of murders carried out by Muslims are with knives, guns, ropes.

syncrodux - your suggestion that 'any deviant behaviour is the product of individual psychology alone' is as trivial (because it is a universal) as the suggestion that 'any deviant behaviour is the product of a religious belief'.

Nor can you assume that an action is caused by any blend of culture, pyschology, AND religion.

And why on earth are you bringing in cultural relativism to this debate? It has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion.

ET - do the words "penchant," "predilection," "predisposition," "proclivity" or "tendency," among others, hold any particular meaning in your universe? Speaking of which, what IS the colour of the sky above your head, today? What was it yesterday?

What sort of background, religious or otherwise could even have a thought about chopping the head off another living human being? This horrible creature did it to the mother of his children.

It's certainly the method of choice for radical Islamists throughout the Muslim world, whether we attribute it to religion or not.

Excellent post DN and right on the mark. ET, it may be cultural but as soon as I read that a man had beheaded his wife I thought, must be a muslim. Same as when you read about a machete being used in a crime you will almost inevitably find out it is a black, most likely Jamaican.

DN, the murder of a 23 year old man that was just innocently riding a bus in Ottawa by a black falls into your post. Even though this 17 year old thug admitted he stabbed the man through the heart for his Ipod his mother, as usual no father, screamed racism as there were 12 whites on the jury and they found her budding nuclear scientist guilty of the murder. This fat sow refused to accept any responsiblity for her unrepentent POS son blaming everything else but her own culture.

ET- Since you opened this door, I'd like to comment that Vince Li might have been a muslim, after all.

Why is everyone so upset, it was just another woman. Moderate islam will set the record straight for all infidels and I’m sure everything will be all right. Aren’t you? I am also positive that all the S.O.W. types here and across the border will howl their indignation at this minor slip of indiscretion on the part of islam and some positive and conclusive action will be taken.

Oh well, I guess I am just getting old and everything really is alright, nothing to worry about, just a woman.

Dave- I have to disagree. When I hear "machete", I think "Somali".

Well, I think that DN's post is not relevant to this particular situation. He's referring to radicalism, the radicalism of Islamic fascism and fundamentalism.

This is ONE situation, where a man kills his wife, and there is no logical process that we, without evidence, can use to declare that his action was due to his religion.

dp, I think your reduction of 'Christians live in a guilt society' and Muslims 'live in an honour society' is a bit too simplistic. I certainly agree that the Christian culture is focused on sin and guilt (particularly since Augustine!). It's also focused on love and charity. And Islam, as a tribal culture, is indeed based on loyalty to the kin-group.

And it isn't the case that all 'white men' (Non Muslims?) who kill their wives also commit suicide. I'm sure you know the data doesn't show such a conclusion. Nor does 'walking into a police station' mean that they are bragging about it. Is running from the act, lying and denying it, found only among non-Muslims?

Again, because someone killed their wife, does NOT mean that this act was due to their religion. You can't come to such a conclusion without evidence, just as you cannot say that because a priest abused young boys, it was due to his religion. Nor can you say that there is any 'prediliction' to do so within the Catholic religion.

Remember the old 'correlation is not causation'.

ET,
Re;your 11:42 post.
I don't think too many of us here are reading the incident in question as a man 'killing his wife BECAUSE he is a muslim'.
The method, the target, and the history all led me to conclude he was muslim, even if not presented with this info ahead of time.
When I come across stories of child abuse, or molestation, I need plenty of background info to conclude which social strata, religion, culture, or geographical region the perpetrator comes from.
When stories of financial crimes come up, ditto.
The problem we're having with your pseudo-defence of this man/ his background is the facts that you're ignoring.
The Dennis Miller quote way up there in the comments fit best. Profiling has somehow taken on taboo status.
It's not bad to atribute certain traits to chosen groups of society. It's simply acknowledging ones experience with numerous examples.
Show me some data to start changing those ideas, and I'll likely amend my 'profile'.
For now, when stories like this come up, I'll continue shaking my head in disgust at this seemingly backward, barbaric way of thinking...whether religious OR cultural.
Otherwise, I usually agree with your assesments on other issues.

Sam S.

To bring up the Greyhound beheading has got to be the limpest dicked attempt at 'moral equivelancies' I've ever seen.

Until we see a rash of beheadings of the good wives of Christian televangelists, ET's cry of 'But we are all beheaders' is pure comedy.

I think if a news report leads with 'MAN beheads WIFE', there's a 99 and 44 one hudredths percent chance that anyone with an IQ above 'drooling village idiot' can formulate that the husband also has the '99 and 44' odds of being named Mo' either as his first, middle or surname and faces a certain shithole mid east city 5 times a day and prays to a pedophile prophet.

In an age of 'let's look for root causes', it's funny how many people seem content to just whistle while walking past the graveyard.

For someone allegedly 'eduacated', ET certainly isn't very smart.

ET

Isn't the debate, in a larger sense, all about cultural relativism?

Assumptions are a necessary part of daily existence, some are correct and some are faulty.

Based on the available evidence I choose to assume that this heinous act was in all likelihood the product of culture, ideology and psychology.

b_c @ 12:22 makes my point.

You, on the other hand, choose to assume that in this case cultural or ideological influences had no part in the outcome or at the very least a causal relationship is unprovable.

So be it, different assumptions produce different conclusions.

As far as my previous posts are concerned please apply the maximum amount of sarcasm you can conjure.

Syncro

Eskimo,
WOW!

I spit coffee all over my flat screen reading that middle paragraph.
Agree or disagree, that...was...awesome!

Sam S.

ET is somewhat clumsily making the point, which may better be made by counter example.

Willy Picton was a white man, in a culture that allows rampant pornography, strippers and prostitution.

Willy ground his women into pig fertilizer.

Thus all men who enjoy pornography, strippers and hookers, prefer to grind their women into pig fertilizer.

The logical error is to leap to a conclusion that all men who enjoy pornography, strippers and hookers will eventually grind their women into fertilizer.

Perhaps a more relevant consideration would have been that Willy the pig farmer graduated from slaughtering four legged creatures to two legged creatures.

Willy, not being the sharpest knife in the drawer, failed to draw the distinction between bacon and humans.

So called "honour killings" are not unique to the Muslim culture, but take place in other well known cultures.

IE Killing for the purpose of securing another dowry in marriage etc. Killing females as they are a financial burden in a particular culture etc.

One can however debate the frequency of 'dishonour killings' between cultures.

Cheers

Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief

1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group "True North"

ET- Sometimes "simplistic" is needed to get us past the insanity of our great mosaic. I've given up trying to analyze every event in the news. It doesn't help me deal with my fears.

I have three young sons, about to embark on the journey of adulthood. Should I ask them to ignore the obvious threats out there in the world? Should I preach tolerance, and acceptance that all cultures are equal? Fat chance. I taught them which neighbourhoods are off limits. I taught them how to fight to win. I taught them which cultures are the most dangerous, and which countries should be avoided. Most of all, I taught them not to be fooled by cults.

I know you're a stickler for accuracy, Kate. Isn't it "influential"?

Last week in Delta B.C. a man was sentenced to 11 years for second degree murder. He took the head off of his 2 year-old daughter because she was female. -----------------------------------http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2009/02/06/bc-lakhvinder-kahlon-sentenced.html?ref=rss--------- This article does not state the religion of the man,but in all likelihood he also smacked his head on the ground five times a day.

[ Muzzammil Hassan is the founder and chief executive officer of Bridges TV, which he launched in 2004, amid hopes that it would help portray Muslims in a more positive light.]

[ Orchard Park police are investigating a particularly gruesome killing, the beheading of a woman, after her husband — an influential member of the local Muslim community — reported her death to police Thursday.]

Kate can speak for herself, but I believe the above statements are the main reason for the post.

We do not, in fact, know for certain that his religion drove him to this despicable act. His culture may have.

We do know the Politically Correct in Canada are quick to point out even the smallest of faults in Canada's and America's traditional way of life. Front page coverage. Whether, religious, economic, family values, protecting one's home with a gun - the Latte Left Crowd will use even pathetically small examples to bull-horn 'us-bad, they-good'. The stereo-typed White Males being the prime target.

What Kate's post demonstrates in spades is the irony of it all.

Fact; He was an influential member of the local Muslim community.

Fact; He was the founder and chief executive officer of Bridges TV, which he launched in 2004, amid hopes that it would help portray Muslims in a more positive light.

Fact; This is the worst form of domestic violence possible.

Fact; She had an order of protection that had him out of the home as of Friday the 6th [of February]

A quick google just now;

'orchard park beheading cbc' ... nothing.
'orchard park beheading ctv' ... nothing
'orchard park beheading g&m' .... nothing.

I guess our beloved media is trying to portray some groups in a better light than others.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend - no matter what. An ultimate case of discrimination if there every was one. Discrimination - ok when performed by the Latte Left.

C'mon ... everyone knows that Islam is the culture of Islam. Their religion and culture are one and the same.

ET is trying to separate the two. It can't be done.

Like a man once said "if you put iced cream on shit and eat it, it will mostly taste like shit". Islam is what we taste, the iced cream is the lame excuses that people like ET and the rest of the PC establishment are using to bullshit us into believing it's iced cream.

Islam is a plague on our world. The Christian world used to play that role, but has succumbed to debauchery, money and tropical vacations. We can only hope.

ET....

Go to this link and get educated from someone who has done research in this area.

www.anthropoetics.ucla.edu/ap1202/muja07.htm

anthropoetics?

If he had beaten her to death or shot her that denotes spousal murder. Beheading her is an honour killing, it's the final insult to the victim for dishonouring him. It's not the result of religious teachings it appears to be a cultural practice amongst the Indo, Arab, African community. I'm not aware of many beheadings in the west that were committed by westerners. Beatings and gun shots are the norm here.

"The Christian world used to play that role..."

It met it's match in Humanism, though.

ET once again ignorantly bleating about a topic she knows little about and understands even less.

However, she may have clumsily stumbled upon a partial truth - that it's not about religion. Rather, Islam is a complete ideology, encompassing all of life, including the political, social, legal and religious aspects. Oh, and which hand to wipe your ass with.

Here are some facts:

The Pakistan Institute of Medical Sciences has determined that over ninety percent of Pakistani wives have been struck, beaten, or abused sexually — for offenses on the order of cooking an unsatisfactory meal. Others were punished for failing to give birth to a male child. Dominating their women by violence is a prerogative Muslim men cling to tenaciously. In Spring 2005, when the East African nation of Chad tried to institute a new family law that would outlaw wife beating, Muslim clerics led resistance to the measure as un-Islamic.

Muslim men bring this religiously sanctioned violence with them when they immigrate to the West, even to the United States. The prominent American Muslim leader Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi, former president of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), has said that “in some cases a husband may use some light disciplinary action in order to correct the moral infraction of his wife…The Koran is very clear on this issue.”

In 1984, Sheikh Yousef Qaradhawi, who is one of the most respected and influential Islamic clerics in the world, wrote: “If the husband senses that feelings of disobedience and rebelliousness are rising against him in his wife, he should try his best to rectify her attitude by kind words, gentle persuasion, and reasoning with her. If this is not helpful, he should sleep apart from her, trying to awaken her agreeable feminine nature so that serenity may be restored, and she may respond to him in a harmonious fashion. If this approach fails, it is permissible for him to beat her lightly with his hands, avoiding her face and other sensitive parts.”

The permission to beat one’s wife is rooted in the Islamic holy book, the Qur'an, and Islamic tradition.

The Qur'an says: “Men shall take full care of women with the bounties which God has bestowed more abundantly on the former than on the latter, and with what they may spend out of their possessions. And the righteous women are the truly devout ones, who guard the intimacy which God has [ordained to be] guarded. And as for those women whose ill-will you have reason to fear, admonish them [first]; then leave them alone in bed; then beat them…” (4:34)

The Islamic prophet Muhammad was once told that “women have become emboldened towards their husbands,” whereupon he “gave permission to beat them” (Sunan Abu Dawud, book 11, no. 2141). He was unhappy with the women who complained, not with their husbands who beat them.

Muhammad even struck his favorite wife, Aisha. One night, thinking she was asleep, he went out. Aisha surreptitiously followed him. When he found out what she had done, he hit her: “He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?” (Sahih Muslim, book 4, no. 2127).

......................

Of course, the most important fact is that Muslims are commanded to obey the Quran and emulate Mohammad. Included in the Quran training is that women are a "tilth" - a possession of their husband - and their lives are worth half as much.

(Much of the above via Robert Spencer)

ET at February 14, 2009 12:20 PM
"Vince Li...well, he wasn't Muslim"
dp at February 14, 2009 12:36 PM
"ET- Since you opened this door, I'd like to comment that Vince Li might have been a muslim, after all"
I recall MSM reports shortly after this horrible event that Mr Li was a Chinese Muslim influenced by his readings of the Koran. This comment was quickly expunged from all subsequent news reports.

Reminds me of the Montreal massacre committed by Mark Lepine (nee Gamil Ghurba). A new film titled "Polytechnique" opened Feb. 6 in Montreal portraying Mr. Lepine as a young, white French Canadian. "the film documents the events of December 6, 1989 through the eyes of two students who witness a gunman murder fourteen young women before committing suicide." (wiki)

Jim

Well, ET is right

Show me the data re domestic violence in Muslims vs non-Muslims. Once I see real data, we can then draw conclusions, either on a case control or cohort basis.

Lots of televangelists have been in the news because of their sexual peccadilloes. That doesn't mean that Christians have weird sexual proclivities.

Without data, we are talking about anecdotes, and while it's fun to talk about how cold it is today, it doesn't mean that "climate change" is real.

Yes, irwin daisy, Muslim men really seem to have a hang up. Women must be dominated. They must be kept subservient to males. Do not let their attraction get to you. Women must be covered up.

Correct me if I am wrong. The Jihad against the West and America in particular seemed to explode about the same time Muslim and Islamic men around the world saw the most powerful man in the world being laid bare on the Oval Office desk by a young women. No connection ?

IMO, it is the 'horror factor' that is intended to be emphasized by the radical hard left wing elements of humanity. Imagine yourself being beheaded or imagine yourself watching as a member of your family got beheaded. Imagine having a hand or a foot cut off with a axe, knife, sword or machete. Then imagine getting shot! Getting shot is infinitely more appealing to most people because death is quick. The guillotine, incidental, was invented by Mr. Guillotine as a 'humane' instrument for killing people. Prior to the guillotine, axes often failed to kill the victim on the first three or four tries...ropes broke or stretched when hangings took place - the guillotine made death swift and sure. It was 'humane' in a time when people still had imaginations that were not dulled by horror TV and computer games.

What are people thinking when they shriek about words spoken or written about other people? They do not usually know the people so it is not out of love that they squawk, what are the same people thinking when they remain silent about people being mutilated in public places? This is my question for the media types and the hard left outfits like SOW. The answer whispering in my ear is 'follow the money'.

What horror TV has done is remove people from reality by another degree (remember Plato's 3 degree's from reality scenario?). What denigrating God has done is remove the horror of Jesus Christ being crucified. The hard left have no imagination, consequently they have little capacity for love. Love is what is missing - imagining your own Mom having her head chopped off by your own Dad! In my day, if my Dad yelled (back) at my Mom us kids were horrified! Now it is called an 'honor killing' to take the head off some-one's Mom and treated as 2nd degree murder? Where is the outcry? This is savage, cruel, unthinkable thing that should rock the core of society. Lack of imagination and the inability to love and trust are the foundation of tolerance for this incident, IMO. The hard left is silent because they do not see any $$ or vengeance against the people they envy and despise - the people who know how to love and are members of a family who love each other (in their hearts). The agenda of the hard left (especially the SOW types) is destruction of the love and loyalty of families; for this reason they tolerate all evil that seeks to destroy the most powerful unit of a free society - and destroy Christianity too, as Christianity is based on Love. Love, is of course, an Abstract noun and the 'reality' education and TV shows leave people at a loss to understand Abstract nouns...this happened to the people of the Dark Ages - that is why they were called the "Dark Ages"; in fact some city people don't even have a literal perception of 'dark', never mind a figurative perception of the same.

The posters here at SDA have posted very thoughtful and insightful passages about this horrific incident within the Western sphere of influence, this proves that we have not lost our way totally (that is we are not all in the 'dark'). It is clear to me that 'East is East and West is West and ne're the twain shall meet' is and always will be figuratively true. I do not understand the capacity for hate and uncontrolled fury that would prompt such a horrific deed, I do not understand how a man could live in his own family after doing such a dastardly thing, I do not understand how conflicting emotions within a family after such a deed could allow them to remain sane...I do not understand the mindset of families who live together but do not love and respect each other.

When a nation throws a lethal, contradicting mindset at it's citizens and forces those citizens to 'accept' such a contrary mindset then that civilization is hell bent on it's own destruction, IMO. It is up to the citizens to stop the destruction. I am proud to acknowledge the efforts of the web master of the Best Conservative Blog and the gold mine of posters/thinkers who are keeping our Western, freedom thinking/loving system of belief alive and vibrant. Well done.

Well, isn't this inconvenient to the Islamic movement?

Nah. Just watch the Big Media cover it up, as they pretty much do with other "honor" killings...

Islam's got nothing to worry about. Only the aware-few know about the bad stuff, thanks to the dhimmi dummies in the Big Media... Onward, Islamic Jihadists... onward... convert everyone!

Yep... future belongs to Islam... oh, shee-it... what to do... what to do... except keep speaking the truth, raising awareness... and, when the Jihad SS in their historically-correct, evocative retro-modern Muslim-Nazi uniforms finally break down your door to gruffly demand conversion, enslavement or death of you, then let out a non-submissive whoop, "Let's Roll!"... you'll know what to do...

I feel like I'm in a movie, The Prime of MS.ET Brody.

ET your right he did not kill her because he WAS a Muslim. He killed her because she wanted a divorce. You cannot dismiss however the misogynistic Muslim male view of females and the concept of male honor possibly influencing his decision to let her live or kill her. Especially by his chosen method.

However the main point of this story is the delicious black irony about the perps/victims desire of bringing Islam to a prettier place in the unbelievers eye that has now been undone by the founders patch of unpleasantness.

Why do you defend Islam ET?

I've never seen a Muslim ET didn't like.
Nor, for that matter, have I ever seen a Israeli she did.
Typical comment, so praise her to your heart's content. She sticks to her convictions.
Personally, I'm taking my laptop in for a cleaning. I spewed my blueberry fritter when I guffawed.

Bl@kbird - in my opinion, what needs to be done is to get "the most senior Muslim leaders" in Canada together, and interview them, and ask them their opinions on this.

If they say unequivocally that this act was reprehensible, then we have something. If they say the husband was justified in his actions, we have something else.

What I'm talking about is neither defending or condemning Islam. Let's get the facts, air them, and see where we all are right now in Canada.

Talking into the echo chamber here may relieve frustrations, but it doesn't change anything.

I guess some people don't recognize sarcasm. I was parroting the feminist response to Aqsa Parvez' honour killing in Missasauga.

If they say unequivocally that this act was reprehensible, then we have something

What I'm talking about is neither defending or condemning Islam

Of course they'll say the "act" was reprehensible, but they'll never say the man that committed the act is reprehensible. Muslims will not speak against a follower of Islam.

kyla....got the sarcasm....and I really hope perfesser ET was being sarcastic to...if not...sigh.

If they say unequivocally that this act was reprehensible, then we have something.

Not recessarily. Taqiyya?

You have to know a LOT about Islam to effectively interview Muslims. Sadly, most of our elites in the media, politics, and academia, don't have the requisite knowledge. Remember, Tony Blair once described Islam as very progressive; Bush, a Religion of Peace. Our religious leaders, mostly good liberals, who naively seek "dialogue" are the most clueless of all.

BTW, I just read that this guy had received an award from Hamas front group CAIR.

As to the notion of "bridges" you have to be skeptical and wonder how sincere his desire for "dialogue" (in the sense we hear the word) really is? CAIR, for example, before the FBI finally caught on, was doing all kinds of "outreach" programmes. You have to get what outreach means, which is: reaching out to your jugular.

Or, as I like to call them: Brown Supremacists

"Well, ET is right"

"Show me the data re domestic violence in Muslims vs non-Muslims. Once I see real data, we can then draw conclusions, either on a case control or cohort basis."

I thought I did, but, oh well, here it is again:

"The Pakistan Institute of Medical Sciences has determined that over ninety percent of Pakistani wives have been struck, beaten, or abused sexually — for offenses on the order of cooking an unsatisfactory meal. Others were punished for failing to give birth to a male child."

"Data gathered between 1999 and 2004 shows that, since 1999, the five-year rate of spousal violence has remained unchanged at seven per cent." - StatsCan

....................

"If they say unequivocally that this act was reprehensible, then we have something."

"Not recessarily. Taqiyya?"

Quite right, MND.

Raymond Ibrahim has this to say on taqiyya:

"...many jurists have decreed that, according to Koran 4:29, Muslims are obligated to lie."

Much of this revolves around the pivotal doctrine of taqiyya, which is often euphemized as “religious dissembling,” though in reality simply connotes “Muslim deception vis-à-vis infidels.” According to the authoritative Arabic text Al-Taqiyya fi Al-Islam, “Taqiyya [deception] is of fundamental importance in Islam. Practically every Islamic sect agrees to it and practices it. We can go so far as to say that the practice of taqiyya is mainstream in Islam, and that those few sects not practicing it diverge from the mainstream. … Taqiyya is very prevalent in Islamic politics, especially in the modern era [p. 7; my own translation].”

None of this should be surprising considering that Muhammad himself — whose example as the “most perfect human” is to be tenaciously followed — took an expedient view of lying. It is well known, for instance, that Muhammad permitted lying in three situations: to reconcile two or more quarreling parties, to one’s wife, and in war (see Sahih Muslim B32N6303, deemed an “authentic” hadith).

More demonstrative of the legitimacy of deception vis-à-vis infidels is the following anecdote. A poet, Kab bin al-Ashruf, offended Muhammad by making derogatory verse concerning Muslim women. So Muhammad exclaimed in front of his followers: “Who will kill this man who has hurt Allah and his prophet?” A young Muslim named Muhammad bin Maslama volunteered, but with the caveat that, in order to get close enough to Kab to assassinate him, he be allowed to lie to the poet. Muhammad agreed. Maslama traveled to Kab, began denigrating Islam and Muhammad, carrying on this way till his disaffection became convincing enough that Kab took him into his confidences. Soon thereafter, Maslama appeared with another Muslim and, while Kab’s guard was down, assaulted and killed him. Ibn Sa’ad’s version reports that they ran to Muhammad with Kab’s head, to which the latter cried, “Allahu Akbar!”

Saudi king reads SDA.

In RIYADH: "and a cleric who condoned killing the owners of TV networks that broadcast "immoral" content,".

SDA gets results.
...-

"Saudi king shakes up religious establishment
DONNA ABU-NASR

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) - The Saudi king on Saturday dismissed the chief of the religious police and a cleric who condoned killing the owners of TV networks that broadcast "immoral" content, signaling an effort to weaken the country's hard-line Sunni establishment."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2185749/posts

Well, ET is entitled to her opinion, as are we all.

Doesn't matter if one is mistaken, let 'em be mistaken all they want.

I just wish ET would try to prove her surprising points about Islam, because, really, it behooves her to do so. I, for one, cannot understand her statements on Islam, as they fly in the face of observed contemporary reality and seem, to me, to be more argumentative than descriptive of observed contemporary reality.

But of course, that is, I concede, just my opinion...

That said, please continue as you wish, ET, sweetie... :) We're, after all, allowed to disagree. After all, we aren't the Liberal Fascists of the University of Calgary, or the ones at yours, whichever one it is... ;)

Oh, and speaking of my opinion, I also did a post on this story, if anyone wants to see what I said... and, as usual, I call it as I see it...

http://thecanadiansentinel.blogspot.com/2009/02/spotlight-on-islam-beheading-in-buffalo.html

ET my opinion of you has not changed. I've said it before and I'll say it again. You are an apologist for the cult of death. You've chosen your side. My eyes glaze over reading your novel like posts. You better hope the good guys win or else start fitting yourself for that halloween costume you'll be wearing.

irwin daisy - thanks I saw those stats for Pakistan. No doubt there are problems in the once fertile crescent.

What I was referring to was statistics of domestic violence for Canada/US, based on country of origin, age, years in Canada/US, etc. That is important to know, and I don't know if those figures exist.

Here in North American, we have lots of reporting of numerators, but little regarding the denominator(s).

I'm aware of taqiyya (who would have thought ten years ago I would have known so many Arabic words).

A skillful interviewer could also address this.

But, many are just too lazy and intellectually bankrupt to conduct meaningful discussions.

Some of you are focusing on the fact that this man beheaded his wife; you are declaring that this mode of killing, which is 'more common to the Muslim world'....proves..? What does it prove? Nothing.

My point is that you cannot, logically, make the conclusion that BECAUSE he is Muslim, his killing of his wife was due to his religion.

You can only say, without specific data:
He is Muslim; he killed his wife.
You cannot say:
He killed his wife because he is Muslim.
That's called the 'fallacy of affirming the consequent' if anyone is interested.

Blackbird, don't be silly; I'm not defending or accusing Islam. I'm point out the illogical thinking of people here rushing to accuse a man who killed his wife that 'he did it because he's a Muslim'.

That would mean that any man who killed his wife has to be a Muslim. Is that true? Or is it that he's only a Muslim if he does it by beheading. But, if he kills her with a knife wound or a gun or strangulation...all methods which have been used by men...does that mean that he isn't religious? That he belongs to no religion? Or, were all these acts because the man was Christian?

I gave other examples, where you can't claim that a Catholic priest abused children because he was Catholic.. and Hans gave a nice example of pig farmers and prostitutes.

And I have no idea why people are bringing up the theme of cultural relativism which is irrelevant to this topic.

"But, many are just too lazy and intellectually bankrupt to conduct meaningful discussions."

Not true, Erik!

North Americans are just... well... preoccupied, is all.

"And I have no idea why people are bringing up the theme of cultural relativism which is irrelevant to this topic."

ET, you chose to rap with Neanderthals.

It's your fault.

Highwayman - that is funny, and I think I get the analogy.

The media's incuriousity with Obama and his political background and hatred of Palin reminds me of how happy they are to kick the Pope around, while not asking difficult questions of other religious leaders.

The guy on BBC's hard talk I find to be cowardly. He to me seems to be afraid of being racist or culturalist, so he only seems to give certain people difficult questions.

The thing that bothers me about interviewers is that they seem to have a script, and want to jump on to the next question, rather than probing, dissecting and clarifying what people are saying.

"The thing that bothers me about interviewers is that they seem to have a script, and want to jump on to the next question, rather than probing, dissecting and clarifying what people are saying."

The simple answer is that it's never been about getting to truth... it's about popularity and R-A-T-I-N-G-S.

Like here.

Eric Larsen,

I doubt data like that would be collected, let alone published.

I recall a few years ago that the Toronto Police had stats on violent crime showing that one minority group was responsible for a very high percentage. They were not allowed to make the report public.

"I recall a few years ago that the Toronto Police had stats on violent crime showing that one minority group was responsible for a very high percentage. They were not allowed to make the report public."

Because... there's only ONE "minority group" we're talkin' about... right? ;-)

Chopper Read'll tell ya!

irwin daisy - that is bad. I'm not in favour of ignoring problems.

We all know that natives have a high incarceration in Saskatchewan compared to other groups. Natives do not possess a genetic predisposition to crime. But, sadly more work is put in to shaking down the government for money rather than seriously addressing root issues, such as the archaic relationship between the government and natives. (I'm not in my element here, don't know facts or figures though)

Similarly, when something happens related to race or religion, is seems that first response off the bat (as pointed out by Steyn and others) is "we fear hatred may be directed towards this group".

I remember the CBC interviewer talking to a U of C prof about the Mumbai horror show when it was still taking place. (I think he must have been born in Mumbai, and that's why they were interviewing him). Whilst there were still hostages in there, he said his "biggest fear" was a backlash against Muslims in Mumbai. Well, at that time, my biggest fear was that more innocents would be killed in that hotel.

The interviewer really did not do his job. Hardly any do. And that is a sad, sorry, state of affairs to find ourselves in.

Domestic violence is not restricted to any culture or religion. The methodology may conform to cultural norms such a be-heading instead of shooting but the fact remains that emotional people react when their world seems to be falling apart. Male on female killing happens when the male's control over his female is endangered leaving the male with the perception that his status amongst his peers is imperiled. Sometimes this is exacerbated by his culture or religion but this is usually used as a justification for his actions and not the cause of the killing. Thus I don't hold that the beheading of the woman is the result of Islam any more than I believe the woman killed by her ex-common law husband in Lamont Alberta is the cause of Christianity, humanism or any other religion.

wrong highwayman . it was the Haitians.

LGF has mug shots up.
...-

"Bridges TV CEO Arrested for Beheading Wife Received Award from CAIR

The founder and CEO of the Islamist channel Bridges TV, arrested today for beheading his wife after she filed for divorce, was given an award in 2007 by the Hamas-linked Council on American Islamic Relations:"
urlm.in/brat

"Stop in the name of love

It is to be sure, a unusual city for the Middle East, but the story goes that every Valentine’s Day in Beirut is like a holiday. The event is advertised. Tables at restaurants become scarce. The travelers at some hotels might discover a complimentary gift from the management that may come in many forms, but always in pairs.

What is paired to Feb 14, 2009 is political change. The Associated Press reports that the Saudi King has sacked the powerful religious authorities who authorized the murder of media figures who they regarded as immoral — and appointed a woman deputy minister to government into the bargain. These acts are regarded by commentators as gigantic events in a culture war. It would be difficulty to think of a less apt moment to rival mighty legends of defiance than Valentine’s Day. But maybe in this most fascinating and ancient region of the world, perhaps nothing is more fitting than that red should also be the color of less bloodshed.

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) — The Saudi king on Saturday dismissed the chief of the religious police and a cleric who condoned killing the owners of TV networks that broadcast “immoral” content, signaling an effort to weaken the country’s hard-line Sunni establishment."
http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2009/02/14/stop-in-the-name-of-love/

"I think, before rushing to judgment, a few facts would be useful. After all, is this situation one where this man killed his wife BECAUSE he was Muslim or did he kill his wife AND he was Muslim?

There's an enormous difference. After all, do we assert that Madoff robbed all those people BECAUSE he was Jewish (national treasurer of the American Jewish Congress) or that he robbed AND he's Jewish.

Do priests abuse young boys BECAUSE they are Catholic or...well, I'm sure you get my point."

Well ET, here is my take on it.

First of all he IS a muslim.
Secondly, beheading is common in Radical muslim.
Thirdly.beheading in North America is a very uncommon method of murder
Fourthly- he beheaded his wife.

Conclusion.........you tell me!

How do we know ET isn't Muslim?

In most Muslim Nations he would not be arrested nor would he stand trial for murder, the fact is it's culturally and religiously acceptable to kill females if a man deems they dishonoured him. I will never understand why Muslim men have no moral or personal responsibility, how utterly cowardly a male can do whatever he wishes morally but it's women who dishonour those cowards.

Good thing there is two stage of hell in Islam, when their god is done with him my god and the Jewish god will make sure he rots in perpetual enternity of misery and hell fire.

joe

the killing may be because, as you said , that the man's world and control of events are evaporating, the be-heading method is cultural/religious, this method has special significance in the muslim(especially mid eastern)world, even Aqsa's throat was slit

ET

profiling is what many in here are doing, and this is a legitimate tool to use. It is often used by the FBI, CIA, and local police forces to find a criminal. Also we use it daily in our business world, and on the "street" in general, thus bettering our chances of survival. You "logical" assertions don't apply in this case, as statistics dictate that this mode of killing would probably signify a muslim perp., and is therefore as valid form of assessment of events.

rose

**** Good thing there is two stage of hell in Islam, when their god is done with him my god and the Jewish god will make sure he rots in perpetual enternity of misery and hell fire.****

in my world (all three of those religions are Abrahamic based)they are all one and the same god, and this god lives with the easter bunny and santa clause

BTW-some real news from Niagara.
A Dash Q400 fell out of the sky near Buffalo
on feb 10, 10:15 pm.All fifty crew and passengers plus one person in his house died.RIP

I posted on this topic the other day. I still stand by it no matter how many play the equivalnace game.

Revnant Dream
February 13, 2009
Muzzammil Hassan is the founder and chief executive officer of Bridges TV, which he launched in 2004, amid hopes that it would help portray Muslims in a more positive light.

If these are the peaceful ones. Than who are the bad?
Immigration within an Islamic context is Invasion at worst , colonization at best. They perceive they are at war with us. Muslims are told by Religious & Secular leaders not to assimilate. I don’t say it! They do every day. All over the world in action & word. Ending in thousands dying monthly by the hand of this “Religion of Peace”. Name a place on Earth this scourge is not bombing or in violent protest with its hosts?

The UN has become a sanctuary for Blasphemy laws against Islam. No one listens because the idea horrifies them. Our politicians quake at there own mistake in fear, while our Academics play at ‘Who loves Marx best”. Our Elites have retreated into a make believe world of Utopian nonsense. We are at war folks, & trying to deny it while our enemies don’t is not going to make it go away. It makes us meat for there eating.

The use of Mutilation with head chopping seems to be their specialty. With genital mutilation being a happy second choice. The Koran is the best evidence anyone needs to see where appeasing this blood religion will get you. No matter how they try to portray it. You can only deny reality for a short time before it bites you.
JMO

NOTES FROM A PEACEFUL RELIGION

http://themcj.com/?p=2748#comment-8026

horny toad - you can't come to any logical, i.e., valid conclusion with your sentences.

That's because, as an argument, your references are to particular rather than universals terms (HE is Muslim, HE murdered his wife)and you are missing what is called 'the middle term'. This means that your two 'slightly universal terms' (beheading is common among radical Muslims, beheading is not common in N. America) can't be linked to the particular HE.

All you can reasonably say is that HE beheaded his wife; HE is a Muslim. You can't connect the two (beheading and Muslim as causal).

Since I'm sure you haven't studied logic, then this may be meaningless.

Gym - sterotyping and profiling are two different things. My point has only been that one cannot make the statement that BECAUSE he is a Muslim, THEN, he killed his wife. All one can say is that he IS Muslim; and he killed his wife. You can't connect the two as causal and that's what some here seem to be trying to do. That's all.

b_C "do the words "penchant," "predilection," "predisposition," "proclivity" or "tendency," among others, hold any particular meaning in your universe?"

A TV station to promote Muslim's in a better light - then beheads wife. Actions speak louder than words.

But according to the Kleenex Crowd, we are all suppose to ignore the "penchant," "predilection," "predisposition," "proclivity" or "tendency," thingies. And take Professor Talking-head's word's on CBC as gospel.

i think everyone here is missing the point...you've all become de-sensitized after a decade of reading about these muslim abominations...

the point is what kind of insane deranged culture has evolved such a demented disgusting vile method of offing their enemy...ferkrissakes they're sawing someone's head off which takes more than a few moments....NOT simply busting a cap in their ass.

remember the greyhound bus beheader ?...HE was genuinely insane....these muslim dreck perceive the decapitation of their enemy as a 'normal' retribution....

i tell you...these muslims must have VERY interesting thoughts...and when you think the sickos are all around us now....oof but it gives me the shivers it does...

Because of their indoctrination into the Islamic ideology, which includes Shariah approved misogyny, Muslim men have a greater propensity to do violence to women. This is proven in the Pakistan Institute of Medical Sciences stats. And in the newspaper everyday.

End of story.

..........................

if you're a teenager having your pals over for drinks, etc. and the bookends are discovered alarmingly like your moms pumpkin, then what are the odds you're a muzzie?

I think it's foolish to try to separate religion and culture. Science for sure can be separated.

foooosh.

Swing and a miss. The story here isn't that a man murdered his wife because she was divorcing him (religion in this matter being irrelevant.)

The story here is a Muslim leader trying to put lipstick on the sow and failing miserably.

Now lets re-focus.

In Canada he'd undoubtedly end up with meds and a day-pass due to "major mental illness" or in recognition of the fact that he was simply carrying out his religious - sorry, make that cultural - traditions.

ET: your hair-splitting about causality is moot.

Beheading is a well-established historical and contemporary reality of Islam. It occurs where ever Islam is at all established.

We are informed by today's PC critics, however, that beheading is an act that only "radicals" carry out... you know, the supposed "minority" group of Muslims who have hijacked Islam, a "religion of peace."

The point here is that Muzzammil Hassan is by all accounts the picture perfect "moderate" Muslim. Yet when faced with a potential divorce, he didn't just kill his wife; he beheaded her.

That draws into serious question whether or not beheading is a "radical" action.

That's the point here.

Please don't swallow the camel while straining out the gnat.

You want reality & how bob raes little darling omar khdar harvested his hands & feet go to :http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/
Scroll down to al shahab beheading.Very graphic,not for squeamish.

Off-topic, profuse apologies, but FWIW, I must declare, briefly, that I believe the "Highwayman" is an undercover Leftist.

I noted that he doesn't consider, on his blog, anything Islamic or socialist/neocommunist/"progressive to be an "enemy of democracy & freedom". Just Christians, Jews, America, Canada, Israel... Typical Leftist.

Just FWIW.

And as for ET, I'm not sure. ET, I suggest you question yourself, become humble... are you sure, by watching the contemporary real world, that you know what you're talking about on Islam? Don't answer me... ask yourself.

ET is like the tobacco lawyer pointing to the cancer victim and telling the court that it is impossible to prove that tobacco caused her cancer.

Islam is a totalitarian religion. It is not just spiritual, it is political and military. It can't be separated from the culture, since it molds the culture.

Someone needs to set up a secret convent so Muslim women can convert and flee their oppressive families and community.

Wife beating is pervasive in Muslim communities and the fact that they kill women who leave their religion or marry a non-Muslim does not speak well of their religion.

Islam does not live up to its promises of peace and is therefore a lie. We must help Muslims who want to leave their religion.

Sentinel

Hiwayboy has a scent of Lucy about him/her and I think ET is hopelessly and irrevocably lost in academic bullshit.

Rhetorical hairsplitting regarding terminology might be stimulating in the academic vacuum but out here where the rubber meets the road logic as thin as a second hand condom is not to be touched for obvious reasons.

I'll support my assumptions with observable behavior any day ET. Can you say the same?

Syncro

"Rhetorical hairsplitting ... " Er, sorry syncrodox, but the Queen's English does lack a certain precision in this instance.
I'd suggest the Dutch term "miernneuken" covers the debate from ET's perspective rather more succinctly.
(Look that up in your Funk & Wagnalls.)

Make that "mierenneuken."

b_C

Thanks for that.....I think the prairie term for that goes something like this.....As thin as a mosquito's arse stretched over a rain barrel.

Syncro

Great Grampa Hantermann tuned me onto the essence of that some time ago and it does seem to succinctly state a certain mindset.

...Since I'm sure you haven't studied logic, then this may be meaningless.

---ET

No one needs to study logic to understand you will go as far as ignore reality to defend Islam.

I wonder why?

When you defend the Conservatives or expose the Liberals you are usually honest and make sense,

then why do you become blind and biased when the topic is Muslim culture?

It's like you have two different personalities...

I'm surprised he was arrested. Wasn't he just expressing his religion freedom? Who are we to judge?

reposting this for everyone. Its down about an inch on the scroll bar. this apparently is pretty normal stuff for the participants.

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/

young omar khadr can explain this in detail when he stays at Bob Raes house. maybe when he finds out Bob is Christian and his wife is Jewish he can really get into the details.

at least with a Jewish wife Boob can take pork off the menu for sunday , saturday , or friday dins with Mama Khadr and the bag lady sisters.

See? Gun control WORKS! It kept Muzzammil Hassan alive. "If it just saves one life..."

ET is correct, in part. Men kill wives for trying to get a divorce every frickin' day. That's common as dirt and cross cultural.

Man -beheading- wife for trying to get a divorce, that's Muslim. Its a style thing. They like a little ceremony with their wife killing.

Plus, they're too pussy to beat her to death properly. That's how real men do it, go out, get dead drunk, go home and bust her up manno-e-girlo. No stabbing or effete beheading crap, just good ol' blunt force trauma.

Extra points for doing it in front of the kids.

Ha ha ha LMAO.

“It’s just culture”!

What a crazy f*cked up world we live in when, the idiots in our midst will say anything to defend their defenseless positions of trying to degrade our “culture” to that of a barbaric tribal death cult.

What possibly could have brought such hatred and self-loathing to individuals who believe that not only their lives in the first world are so worthless but so is everyone else’s? Thus they defend it’s destruction through the mass importation of cult madness borne of a megalomaniac, pedophilic thief and murderer who was bent on enslaving an ignorant tribal nomadic desert peoples to gratify his own delusions and fantasy’s.

Are you really so ignorant and needy yourself to think that this abomination of human consciousness has a place in our society?

Highwayman is in all likelihood a devout truther.Anyone who thinks that 9/11 was an inside job really does not have the mental acumen to discuss the Middle East,or much of anything.

Knight...that's a hallmark of academia.....inclusion at all costs.

wallyj

Lucy et al pushing moonbat garbage in order to catch the Nazi horde.

Nice.

Syncro

I must side with the comments that this is more cultural than religious.
I work with and am friends with many followers of Islam, all from the Ismali sect (ie followers of the Aga Khan and a sub-sect of Shite). All are Indian in ethnic origin and those who were not born here or in Europe came from East Africa. They were the business and professional community there and were expelled (by government edit or pressure) by various governments because they "had taken over the local economy". In truth they had built the local economy but the "natives" resented their success and so out they go.
As with any religion, Islam has a multitude of sects: Sunni and Shite being the main two and within those are numerous further divisions much like the Catholic/Protestant divisions within Christianity. Some Islam sects are radical, intolerant and strange to Western societies, but so are many Christian sects (think for example Jehovah Witnesses or Mormons).
Thinking of all of Islam as fanatical suicide bombers out to take over the World is simplistic and wrong. The Ismalis I know are as fanatical as the average United Church congregation. More boring than frightening. Yes, they hold women is a subordinate role to men but no more so than Roman Catholism or Conservative Judism and less so than Orthodox Judism and many fundimental Protestant sects.
Canada should denounce and shut down those groups calling for death to Jews, rebuff attempts to incorporate Shiria Law and demand immigrants embrace free speech and freedom of thought. We adopt; you adapt regardless of the ways of the old country (this includes the Irish who want to drag there religious struggles over here!)

Well, he certainly showed me what the 'understanding' part is all about..i understand that if you offend the adherents of islam, they will cut your head off your offending body.

Thanks for the lesson.

I am sure it will come in handy as i try to get my country to ban every last one of you 7th century throwbacks from darkening the doorstep of my country.

Folks, Higwayman has hijacked this thread.

We're supposed to be ignoring him from now on, ok?

If it's Lucie or Special K or some other dummy from the HRC or the Librano War Room coming here illegally via hijacking someone's wireless router, the best response is no response. Don't play their game.

'Course, it's likely a perfect nobody who think's he's another Lucie or toilet Nazi hunter... even more pathetic than the real thing!

"this man's religion is extremely relevant."

"NY Honor Killer's Muslim Sympathy Site Yanked

AmericanThinker.com ^ | February 14, 2009 | Marc Sheppard

The website of a New York TV network whose aim is to improve American perceptions of Islam was shut down this morning, two days after its founder admitted to the beheading of his wife. And while that irony might bring a momentary smile, another attempt to conceal the facts behind an honor killing right here in America should stir nothing short of outrage.

Muzzammil Hassan, CEO of Bridges TV, whose motto is "connecting people through understanding," apparently didn't think Thursday's honor killing -- and make no mistake about what this was -- at the station might somehow blur that message.

Of course, police and mainstream media are treating the gruesome homicide as a simple case of domestic violence. Even though the victim, 37-year-old Aasiya Zubair, had recently filed for divorce and apparently was concerned enough about her Muslim husband's reaction to obtain a restraining order. And, despite the fact that she was beheaded, a particularly hideous practice all but unthinkable to any but Islamic fundamentalists, you can bet that her murderer's religion will never be mentioned, as though it were irrelevant.

But history tells us that, notwithstanding the pattern of denial by the Dhimmi dummies of the MSM, this man's religion is extremely relevant.

The United Nations Population Fund estimates that "as many as 5,000 women and girls a year are murdered by members of their own families, many of them for the ‘dishonour' of having been raped." And these so-called "honor killings," once a disgraceful abomination known only to Islamic nations, are gradually creeping into western society right under our noses.

Pressured by Islamic advocacy groups and the prevailing winds of political correctness, authorities and news organizations remain remarkably mute. And, in doing so, these naïve multi-cultists only pave the way for more victims of "domestic violence" at the hands of followers of Sharia, not local, law.

Let's never forget "domestic violence" victim Aqsa Parvez, the 16-year-old Canadian girl whose father strangled her for refusing to wear the traditional Muslim head scarf in 2007. Or Amina and Sarah Said of Dallas, both murdered by their father in 2008 for dating non-Muslim boys. Or Sandeela Kanwal of Georgia, who was strangled to death by her Muslim father, Chaudhry Rashid, last July.

Rashid's actions are of special note here, as he actually admitted his motive to be protecting his family's honor from the divorce his daughter was planning.

Yet the silence persists. Where the hell are all the pissed-off women's groups? This sister was beheaded! Here! In America!

At around 10:30 AM EST this morning, the website for Bridges Television also went silent, replaced with the message "This website is temporarily down for maintenance." Whether this was a permanent shutdown or "maintenance" to either scrub all references to or make absurd apologies for the butcher Hassan, only time will tell.

Meanwhile, say it loud - This was another Honor Killing.

Welcome to the Dhimmi House.

Disgraceful.

Update:

In my rush to scoop the website shutdown - which took place during my research - I let the far more significant story get by me. An American woman was beheaded by her Muslim husband for seeking a divorce and few know anything about it because the majority of media refuse to report it. This outrage should be commanding national headlines."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2186051/posts

(Just FYI:

cal2, at February 14, 2009 10:22 PM, says that Bob Rae's a Christian. This may be correct--or not. From Wikipeadia:

"Saul Forbes Rae (December 31, 1914 – January 9, 1999) was a Canadian diplomat during the Pearsonian era of Canadian foreign policy.

"Rae's father was born Goodman Cohen in Palanga, Lithuania. The Cohen family had moved to Scotland in the pogrom of the 1890s, and there Goodman met Helen Rae, the daughter of a draughtsman in the Glasgow shipyards. The romance and subsequent marriage caused considerable turmoil in both families, and as a result they moved to Hamilton, Ontario in 1912. Saul was born in Hamilton on December 31. He had two siblings, an older sister, Grace, who went to work as a dancer at the Radio City Music Hall, and a younger brother Jackie who had a long career in Canadian show business. The three worked in vaudeville in Canada in the 1920s under the name 'the three little Raes of Sunshine'."

Judaism is matrilineal, so it’s very possible that Bob “Cohen”, known as Bob Rae (the family obviously adopted Helen Rae's maiden name), was raised a Christian or of no faith. But certainly, at least by birth, Saul Cohen, Bob's dad, was Jewish. Bless him!)

Again.Another link whore hijacks the comments.As sentinel said,ignore it!

And quite a night it was; SNL at SDA, the hangover is palpable.

As Justthinkin and sentinal suggest, I've made another entry to my scroll-through list.

This 'Highwayman' is a lunatic who obviously sources his information from the likes of David Icke, et al. He has no credible esoteric, or historical knowledge of any kind. Ignore him and like a pimple he'll eventually go away. There's zero benefit in engaging him.

...................

Once again, there's been comparisons made between the former violence of Christianity and the perpetual violence of Islam. The difference is that Islam is foundationally violent. Violence is commanded in their texts, law and in the command for them to emulate Mohammad, an extremely violent, disturbed and immoral individual.

Christianity, on the other hand, bears, commands, nor incites violence in the NT, or in Christ's life example. In fact, the opposite is true.

As well, Islam may have some 72 sects varying in degrees from moderate to fanatical, however, they all share the same trilogy and prophet, which are not moderate, but violent.

There's validity to the argument that Islam is a heretical, gnostic sect of Christianity. The original 'infidels' were Muslims.

As far as the "same God' mantra that Muslims like to preach to other 'Abrahamic Faiths' - this is patently false.

Apart from Allah sanctioned taqiyya, Allah himself is described in the Quran as the best “deceiver” or “schemer” (3:54, 8:30, 10:21)

John 8:44 is quite clear that Allah, therefore, is not the same as the Christian God:

"You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

Kate

My apologies for wasting bandwidth sparring with Backstreet Boi. Chalk that one up to a few to many wobbly pop and a case of recent blog deprivation.

I'll hit the tip jar when the fog clears and vow to avoid the likes of Lucy/Catsmeat in the future.

Syncro

Not to put too fine a point on it, Norm Matthew, but each religion has a point at which it must be said that aberrant teachings/beliefs/practices puts you outside the faith you claim to follow. The fact that bin Laden's group killing thousands in the name of Islam remains an accepted sect of Islam. No serious Christian accepts Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons as Christians. They JW's and Mormons may have co-opted some Christian names and terminology but their beliefs and practices are distinctly not Christian. I agree with you that Ismaili Muslims are the United Church of Islam they are also not well regarded in the Muslim world. I believe that they are actually prevented from entering Saudi Arabia thus participating in the Haj because they are not strident enough in their practices.

ET's point is well taken,

ONLY IF

we're talking about certainties.

And VIRTUALLY nothing is ever certain.

And so, the same argument could be made of....say....a devout Nazi killing his neighbor (a devout jew) in 1938 Germany.

Are we certain he did it because he was a muslim? No. Are we pretty damn sure him being a Muslim was related to (or even contributed to) her dying or the manner of her death? Absolutely.

(BTW ET, there is some fascinating evidence out there showing how "honor killings" are not being reported as such, largely for politically correct reasons.)

In other words,

as a society we know "honor killing" is going on,

but to shine the light on it would force us to re-evaluate entrenched cultural assumptions,

and so we intentionally refrain from turning that light on.

How.....progressive.

I think that biff caps off the thread with this statement, "there is some fascinating evidence out there showing how "honor killings" are not being reported as such, largely for politically correct reasons."

The silence of the media implies complacency. ET's moral equivelencies defense on the other hand begs to ask the question that by giving radical Islam a free pass, what does it prove?

I refuse to drink ET's Kool-aid that every culture has it's own form of 'domestic abuse', I mean just look at white boy Willy Picton and the Asian Greyhound passenger. Let's all link arms and to the tune of 'We are the World', let's sing 'We area all Headhackers'.

PULEEZE

”An addition of Muslims to a Nation is a subtraction in civilization.”

Stories over the last couple of days that have been reported:

"Suspicious Jordanian kills sister," from AFP, February 11

AMMAN: A Jordanian man has been charged with premeditated murder for killing his sister while she was asleep over her alleged “suspicious behaviour,” a judicial official said yesterday.
“The 21-year-old man stabbed his 24-year-old sister 10 times in different parts of her body with a kitchen knife while she was asleep on Tuesday night over her alleged suspicious behaviour” in Sahab, south of the capital Amman, the official said.

Three days ago, the unidentified suspect, who has confessed to the crime, “heard some men talking about his sister, who was a trainee lawyer, and decided to kill her without checking the truth,” according to the source, who did not elaborate.

“He said he regretted murdering his sister, particularly after forensic tests proved that she was virgin,” the official said.

He added that the suspect will “undergo a psychological examination to determine his mental state.”

..................

"Afghan diplomat to NYC, Mohammed Fagirad charged in all-day wife beating,"

by Nicole Bode for the New York Daily News, February 14

An Afghan diplomat was charged Friday with beating his wife "like a dog" for more than 15 hours in their Queens home, prosecutors said.

Mohammed Fagirad, 30, a vice consul at the Afghanistan Consulate, brutalized his wife inside their Flushing home from about 8:30 a.m. Wednesday until nearly midnight, Queens District Attorney Richard Brown said.

During the attack, Fagirad bit, slapped, choked and beat the 22-year-old woman with a belt, pushed her down a flight of stairs and sat on her chest, prosecutors said.

At one point, prosecutors said, Fagirad threw his wife up against a wall, held her there by the neck and then let her drop to the floor, where he beat her with a belt.

Fagirad told police his "wife was a dog and he was going to treat her like a dog," prosecutors said.

When Fagirad left the home, his wife fled and went to the 109th Precinct stationhouse, where she filed a domestic violence report, prosecutors said. She then returned home.

...................

"Muslim women 'face crisis over violence, says senior UN Diplomat'"

from Agence France-Presse, February 15:

MUSLIM women around the world are facing a "growing crisis" as Islamic governments fail to honour commitments to end inequality and violence against them, a senior UN official has warned.

Yakin Erturk, the UN's rapporteur on violence against women, said that women must demand their governments carry out pledges to grant equal rights and ensure their safety.

"There is no time left to lose any more as this is a growing crisis," she said after a speech which dealt with the issue at an international conference on "Equality and Justice in the Muslim Family."

"Women must demand that their governments implement agreements on women's equality, rights and an end to violence against women, which have been signed but have yet to be carried out," she said.

"In these countries, those who speak on behalf of Islam still justify things like stoning or killing a woman for this or that reason as being part of their religion. I have heard this at the most official of levels," Erturk said without specifying which countries were to blame.

"Of course violence against women is not limited to Islamic countries but Islamic countries have become stigmatised as being mysogynist societies which are inherently anti-women."

Erturk said that very often, laws protecting women are not enforced or are weakened due to pressure from religious groups. Her view was endorsed by more than 200 international delegates attending the four-day conference organised by Musawah, a new Malaysia-based global movement demanding equality and justice in Muslim families....

.................

"France: Jilted Muslim jailed for setting his girlfriend on fire."

from the BBC, February 13:

A Pakistani man has been sentenced to 20 years in prison by a French court for setting fire to an ex-girlfriend who had refused to marry him.

Amer Mushtaq Butt doused the woman with petrol and set her alight as she was leaving her home in a Paris suburb.

Chahrazad Belayni, a 21-year-old Moroccan-born woman, suffered third-degree burns to 60% of her body.

The case has highlighted violence against women in poor urban communities with large Muslim populations....

Prosecutor Camille Palluel said Butt had meticulously planned his attack "to end the life" of his former girlfriend in an attempt "to restore his honour".

Butt set fire to Ms Belayni in the street in the impoverished Paris suburb of Neuilly-sur-Marne in 2005 after she ended their relationship....

.....................

"German-Afghan gets life for 'honour killing,'"

from The Local, February 13:

A German-Afghan man was sentenced to life in prison for the “honour killing” of his sister on Friday, creating mayhem in the court room as family members screamed, assaulted journalists and attempted suicide.

The 24-year-old Ahmad-Sobair O. was convicted of murdering his 16-year-old sister Morsal O. on May 15, 2008 because she had turned away from her family. The girl died after suffering 23 stab wounds in a Sankt Georg district parking lot in Hamburg. Both siblings, who immigrated to Germany 13 years ago, have German citizenship.

“He killed out of pure intolerance,” Hamburg Judge Wolfgang Backen said while reading the verdict, adding that the murder was “treacherous” and a premeditated “bloodbath” after all other attempts to “discipline” his sister had failed.

His verdict sparked dramatic scenes in the court room as Ahmad Sobair O.’s family and friends wailed and hit the security glass behind which he was sitting. The accused himself began screaming: “You son of a whore! What is this, honour? I know no honour!”

He also yelled that had the trial taken place in Kabul, Afghanistan, he would have already been released long ago.

The murderer's mother then tried to throw herself out of a courtroom window, but was restrained by family members. Relatives of the accused also assaulted and threatened a journalist in the room.

According to Backer, the late Morsal O. had been victim to “many years of martyrdom” in the form of threats and assault from her brother.

Before she was murdered, Morsal O. had been seen by emergency youth services on several occasions, suffering from pressures by her family, which did not approve of her Western lifestyle. After the verdict, her parents sharply criticised the judge, saying the girl bore some of the guilt for her own murder.

Backer said her parents had made their son into the “executioner” of their “parenting methods.”

Ahmad-Sobair O. has already been prosecuted for assaulting her and others. He was sentenced in March to one year and five months without possibility of probation on an assault charge. He had requested his March sentence be deferred, but was notified in writing - a day before the stabbing - that the request had been rejected.

A series of six honour killings - including the shooting at a bus stop of 23-year-old Turkish woman Hatun Sürücü in Berlin - shook Germany in 2005. Sürücü's youngest brother, Ayhan Sürücü, later confessed to killing her because his family did not approve of her lifestyle.

According to news agency DPA, some 50 women have been the victim of honour killings in Germany over the last decade.

.........................

All over the last couple of days. See a pattern here?

"Since I'm sure you haven't studied logic, then this may be meaningless."

ET, you are right, I haven't studied logic.

So, perhaps this quote ny Mark Steyn will say it better.

“Look at the late Aasiya Hassan, beautifully coiffed, glossy-lipped. On countless occasions since 9/11, I've found myself at lunch or dinner in New York, London, Washington, Paris or some other western city, sitting next to a modern Muslim woman like Mrs Hassan telling me how horrified she is at how hijabs and burqas, honor killings and genital mutilation, forced cousin marriages and the disproportionate number of Muslim wives in European battered women's shelters, how all these have come to define Muslim womanhood in the 21st century. Yet Aasiya Hassan ended up no differently - all because her husband's TV network had a cashflow problem?”

Most of the comments are just the sane trying to reach the insane. An oxymoron. But one comment does justify a reply. I am not what you would call a truther. But I would like an explanation as to the wee tiny whole in the pentagon where an airplane was supposed to have hit it. And how building 7 toppled exactly the same way as the twin towers when it wasn't even hit, and barely was on fire. Curious, isn't it?

Sean

First you have to understand NY. Under the WTC there where at least 10 stories of parking & other levels if not more. Depending on the building or era of construction. Most of these are connected to other buildings by subway which has many levels itself underground. As well underground pedways & such. Now think what happened underground when both towers fell . Why do you think it burnt for 9 months? Those building connected also experienced collapse when like a tidal wave the levels where pushed out by the shock wave. When there underground like flapjacks on stilts. When they cascaded apart, so did the foundation of the building they where under implode. For your first question look at a hand book on ballistics.
They have been digging underground since the 18nth century there for transportation. Look up about the history of this, its quite fascinating. Chicago's underground is even more interesting.
JMO

john begley at February 14, 2009 7:19 PM
Good point.

Well, in the spirit of keeping up with the times, I suppose Bridges TV will soon be changing their name to Beheadings TV.

:(

Looks like he is doing a good job of keeping the muslim stereotype alive. Why are we letting people from the middle east into our country again?