When will these neo-communists learn?

Maybe the CAWS would just consider that a 'strike for a lifetime'. Indefinite 'strike pay' for all union members from the pocketbooks of the bigshots like Buzzy boy. Taliban Jack, Olivia and the troika coup people would probably all be good for a few million - it would be for the workers that they claim to care so much about. Time for the ring leaders of demise of GM jobs to put up and shut up.

Juxtoposition? Much like MSM. Harper gov't mused last year during the presidential candidate races about the protectionist democrats... no matter though, Obama and friends' victories, taking control of both houses of congress was good and our gov't having trade concerns was bad, inappropriate to raise, and just plain irrational... Now Harper's being attack by Iggy -- amplified by MSM -- for not having the foresight to see this coming. Amazing.

jon, in that regard, Europe just told The One to step off with the protectionist crap... and he DID! The guy BLINKED. Check it:

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article5655115.ece

He's also been told to step off by India, Iran just launched a "satellite", and N. Korea is getting all set to launch one "real soon", like today or tomorrow.

Meanwhile his cabinet nominees are dropping like bombs out of a B-52 and cratering all over Washington.

Probably Mr. Harper will gently suggest to The One that maybe the car companies should stay in Canada. Or maybe all that dirty oil might have to stay in Alberta. Not to mention all that iron ore, and wood, and cows and stuff they buy from us by the cubic buttload.

Democrats are IDIOTS.

Come see come saw.

Syncro

With all this news about the CAW and GM pulling out, I thought you should remind all of your readers that our boy Buzz is bringing his winning ways to the NHL to ensure that the league eventually pulls completely out of the US:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/story/2008/09/23/hargrove-nhlplayers-union.html

I like good ole' Basil - he's the poster boy for the 'How To Drive Jobs Into The Ground' campaign.

I don't really see what the problem is for CAW workers if GM closes down - they can always get jobs at Wal Mart.

I thought unions loved Obama - where is all the "love", the hope and change, that every card carrying union member was waiting for with bated breath. Down the toilet - American protectionism rears its ugly head and the Canadian unions are howling. What will Jack and his cohorts use for leverage - oil and gas? Lots of luck with that Mr. Layton - you can keep you greedy hands off the Alberta resource base.

Yeah, you guys can laugh, but my bargaining unit and professional organization is part of the CAW. (Canadian Air Traffic Controllers Association, local 5454.)

We joined up because there was strength in numbers and dollars to back up our negotiation requirements. Not looking so bloody smart now. Not like they ever cared about our few thousand members.

If the CAW goes down, we might be up poop creek without a method of propulsion.

I don't know what it means to "juxatpose" [sic].

Does it mean to place side by side one instance of something (i.e. standing up for workers' interests in June of 2007) next to another instance of the same thing (i.e. in Feb of 2009)?

If so, it's a lot like "juxtaposing," though in my opinion, more sport can be derived from placing side by side comments by Stephen Harper from different periods, like so:

1) Equalization pledge to Saskatchewan in 2004 and 2005 vs. Equalization policy after the 2006 election.

2) Fixed-election date pledge before the early 2008 election vs. "I'll-call-it-when-it-suits-me" policy established later on.

3) No-more-partisan-Senate-stacking pledge before January 2008 vs. the single largest partisan Senate appointment in Canadian history that followed.

And the best for last:

4) The "We're running surpluses based on asset sales we can't identify" pledge of last November's fiscal update vs. the policy of borrowing billions of dollars from future taxpayers so the upper-middle-class can redo the tile in their bathrooms.

It may not count as "juxatposition," but as far as juxtaposition goes, it does help to clarify matters of credibility, economic and otherwise.

"Juxatpose" this: The joy some right wingers seem to derive from the manufacturing industry collapsing and thousands of people losing their jobs versus the distress organized labour derives from the resource sector collapsing and thousands of people losing their jobs.

Keep cheering for the damage caused by the kleptocratic oligarchs, you assholes.

ulianov, it really is always about perpetual class struggle for you, n'est-ce pas? In such an environment it is much easier to dupe the average citizen, isn't it. Set up the traditional class struggle narrative, find malleable minds (almost exclusively young, inexperienced ones), preach the gospel and then wait for the bennies to come in.

On the one hand, your dedication is to be admired but on the other, it's despicable manipulation of youth and innocents to further a political agenda.

Who would be the best "future of the world" group in your estimation. Bright young enthusiastic kids with ideas on how to make it a better place, unencumbered by 50 year-old leftist dogma and channelled indocrination or a generation following the notion that politics can solve everything (as long as they are the 'correct' politics)?

Hard to believe the CAW didn't see coming the potential that GM would've had enough eventually and close shop and leave the country, finally, ironically allowing the union to do what it does best: not work.

I guess the CAW doesn't believe in carma.

Then again, Leftists don't believe that what they do today will ever have consequences in the future.

One day, thanks to the militant, extremist, greedy, ideologue unions, even the automakers will close shop domestically and simply do what many other industries already have: outsource.

They don't see the consequences of making it ultimately impossible for their employers to continue to operate as a competitive going concern. Too bad. At least they can then go to work at McDonalds, anyway!

Having grown up in Oshawa(grade 8 tour of the HOC by broadbent, served meals to striking UAW members as a kid, etc.)it really pains me to see what is going on.(step brother just laid off after 20 years, mother's husband could lose pension).

But, saying that, maybe my step brother should not have smoked so much dope while working the line. Maybe my cousin should not have played the sick days boogie year in, and year out. Maybe my mother's husband should have worked his 35 years instead of retiring on a medical pension.

I remember being laughed at because I turned down an assembly line job upon enlisting in the army......who knew that baby murdering kitten eater would be a smart, long term career choice.

Ulianov, don't blame GM. Blame the CAW for making it ultimately impossible for GM to continue to operate in an environment in which the workers are essentially driving the company out of business in cost-of-operating terms. GM simply can't compete, ultimately, because it's just too expensive to contine. Because of the CAW and its unreasonable hostility/militancy and unmitigated greed.

The union should blame itself for being so hostile and militant. It deserves whatever bad stuff comes to it, for it brought it upon itself.

Of course, when I say "the union", I mean the leadership more than the members, for the leadership is the problem, what with being Hard-Leftist ideologue and militant, rather than focusing on rational, logical issues concerning working conditions and reasonable, appropriate, competitive compensation for workers, which is what unions are supposed to be for, but really isn't.

Unions have become a destructive force in the Free World. Instead of simply doing their real job, and doing it in a way that doesn't endanger future jobs, they go far beyond. Their objective is now simply to get as much money and other stuff as possible, to hell with whether it'll destroy the competitiveness and survivability of their employer. They also engage in unnecessary Hard-Leftwing militant political activism, regardless of the political views of their membership, uncaring that many won't agree with the leadership's bizarre ideology and actions.

Ulianov, sorry, but the unions have become a destructive force, rather than a force standing up for reasonable compensation and working conditions for workers.

It's time to rethink your extremist ideology before it destroys jobs further and sends them out of the country to be done far more cheaply under far less nice working conditions, perhaps producing lower-quality and less-reliable products than before, for the same price or even more, if one can accept such a bizarro possibility. Too bad you Hard-Leftists don't understand the consequences of your extremism. Yes, because of your Hard-Left/anti-business ideology, the likes of GM will leave the country and set up shop in, perhaps, Communist China, where vehicles will be produced very cheaply and be of relatively inferior quality and reliability, the employees treated like caged animals, and the profits, oh, the massive, obscene profits... well, the sky's the limit... And if the workers complain, they're fired... or maybe just shot in the head or something... who knows, really, when it comes to what goes on Behind the Bamboo Curtain? They don't allow media to tell it like it is, with the threat of grave brutality/death backing up their rules against inconvenient reporting of the way things are, either domestically or internationally. That said, can't you see how you Hard-Left irrationalists are taking your Free World rights and freedoms for granted?!

Don't blame GM. They simply exist to provide goods and make a profit and, of course, provide very lucrative employment for many. Don't punish them for that just because you guys are greedy.

Unions... they could potentially be ok in my book, if they were moderate, rational, non-greedy and understood the critical need to be competitive in the marketplace and make a decent profit for the many shareholders. But they're nothing like that.

Excellent.

Unions - nearly all of them - appear to act based on the thought that their employer has deep (ok, bottomless) pockets, which are relatively unaffected by market forces (e.g. supply & demand).

In the private sector, unions are paid ultimately by consumers, and consumers are now starting to have a big say in union contracts.

The tide has turned; this is the beginning of the end.

Yippeee!!!

CAW leadership should have remembered the old saw:
"Be careful of the toes you step on today; they may be connected to the @ss you have to kiss tomorrow".

Posted by: The Phantom at February 3, 2009 11:56 PM

"Democrats are IDIOTS."

Yes. The one obvious surplus we had last November. Now, if we could only find a good export market for most of them.

Union complaints are like the prisoners' lament: The food is bad and there's not enough of it.

a unions got to know it's limitations,

Clint Eastwood,

Ah, the Meaty One has returned. Salutations!

look at the bright side: with the downturn in manufacturing in the ontario we should be getting closer to the 1990 kyoto co2 levels that all the eastern greens were crying about..even though the auto industry was exempt from kyoto we should now be getting credit for the reduction in hot air coming out of ontario. its sounds like less gas out of the caw. :)

"ulianov, it really is always about perpetual class struggle for you, n'est-ce pas?"

In ulianov's case, that class is obviously kindergarten, repeated over and over and over.

Obviously the CAW took down the blockade too soon. Pussies.

The CAW should put the blockades back up but this time to stop GM from pulling right out of Canada. At what point will big unions come to realize that they have to stop making really stupid decisions - decisions that do more to assure their eventual demise rather than assure a stable financial future for members and their families.

It would be interesting to ask some potash workers how that strike worked out for them.

"If the CAW goes down"

Yukon Gold,

None of us are happy to hear about your situation, but Buzz and Bob White were instrumental in creating the CAW against the wishes of the UAW. That became a very convenient fundraising and activist arm for the left wing Buzz who is now retired with a healthy CAW pension.

I'd be curious to hear what other CAW members think now about their bargaining leverage.

Ulianov - I don't know where you live but it really should be in Cuba. Your head is stuck so far up your butt all you can is sh-t. The right takes no pleasure whatsoever in the plight of the individual auto worker or any hard-working person in Canada. What really pisses us off are the idiotic morons who are the decision makers in the big unions and the idiotic morons, like you, who support them.

Ulianov is a troll who adds not at all to the conversation. His purpose is to sow dissension, FUD, and waste Kate's bandwidth.

As stubby and others have said above, the current reduction in manufacturing, forestry, mining and etc., otherwise known as the "economic crisis", is everything the Left has been screaming for since the 1970's. They got what they "wanted", and they nearly bankrupted North America and Europe to do it.

Now, having got what they wanted they don't want it. That's because they were -lying- the whole time. What they actually want is a nice coercive state setup with them at the top and everybody else bowing and scraping for them. Lots of gravy for the Lefty big guys, zippo for everybody else. Shut up and do your work, peasants.

That being a pretty hard sell, they have pretended concern for the Holy Working Man, the Holy Environment, the Holy World Peace, the Holy Women's Rights, The Holy Homosexuals, the Holy Palestinians (the Holy Holocaust Survivors having fallen out of fashion), and etc. We see the results before us.

So, Lefties. You wanted it, you got it. Toyota.

"They got what they "wanted", and they nearly bankrupted North America and Europe to do it."

VDH at Pajamas Media has a good essay on how California's been bankrupted by getting what they wanted. Short version - killing the golden goose is a very bad idea.

http://pajamasmedia.com/victordavishanson/thoughts-on-the-therapeutic-style/

Here we go again with this. All stakeholders have to contribute, union members, retirees, shareholders, bondholders and vendors. The current workers are flipping between being militant and being submissive, whch shows what hey are really worried about, the latter.

I just find this interesting, that they got the government support they wanted and now they find themselves in a corner as the last barrier and potential bagholder to plant closures. They wear it well. There needs to eb a 20% wage cut, a 5-10% benefits cut, wipe out of shareholders and a bond haricut of 20 to 30%. You do that and then GM has fighting chance of standing n its own merits. Oh I forgot the execs and mgt take a pay and bennie cut as well.

You lefties are now reaping what you've sown. Welcome to Hank Reardon's hell.

Ahhhhhhhh.Poor Yukon got sucked into a union.Pay your dues,and watch your executive blow it.ATC should NEVER be part of a commie union.Guess what.You clowns go on strike,and any bush pilot can fly any plane,anywhere in Canada,without you.You guys are like photo-radar.Redundant,and no functioning purpose.Guess what?Funny as it may seem,pilots will not run into each other without ATC.In fact,they fly more functionally without you clowns trying to line them all up.Now go back to your little radar screen,and call mommy to start supper.

.

Parasites always wind up killing their host ... that the nature of a parasite. I do not feel empathy for parasites.

Unions are parasitical by nature.

Perhaps they will teach their kids to avoid a parasitic life-style and indulge in life-long learning to get new skills, new information and to have a willingness to move on to better opportunities when what you have is no longer suitable.

That is the nature of a free man. Always thinking, looking ahead, prepared for whatever comes down the line and a willingness to change and adapt. And to not sit there whining, picketing, threatening and holding their breath until they get what they want JUST LIKE CHILDREN ... that is the nature of a leftist idiot.

.

Oh.And forgot to mention.Love the post Kate.Canadian Autowreckers.Heh.

It has always perplexed me as to why Canada, which has the natural resources, allows foreign companies to cut down trees here and then process the wood somewhere else; or catch the fish off the Grand Banks of Nfld and process the fish in fish plants anywhere else but Nfld. I'm all for capitalism...but when we own the stuff (ie. it grows here or it's in the ground/seas here) why don't we process all the stuff here? It's not unheard of...look at what DeBeers does with diamonds. You can't buy a legit diamond unless it's from DeBeers. Why doesn't our country do the same? Then we could have put all those auto plant workers working in the processing of our natural resources. Anybody can build a car...given the technology, etc...however, not every country has high quality iron ore to actually build the vehicle--we do. Everybody needs gas...however, not everybody has oil seeping out of the ground. So instead of raw oil...we process it and send gas through the pipeline.

~~favill~~

Ulianov is simply economically illiterate. Canadians will continue to demand cars no matter what happens to GM. Someone will be there to supply those cars. Since auto companies need to have manufacturing capacity located relatively close to demand, there will be manufacturing in Canada.

Why is it such a big deal that GM will leave Canada? After all, now that the Harper government has embraced the "stimulus" religion, we can reinvigorate our economy by constructing schools, funding the ballet and re-insulating our houses.

That will help to make Canadian industry more competitive worldwide, won't it?

For the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would consider Keynes a "brilliant" thinker.

"It would be interesting to ask some potash workers how that strike worked out for them."

Or ask the ATU how the OC Transpo strike worked out....oh wait that's the public purse they're slopping out of, making life very difficult for the entire city, while holding out until the city caved...they should privatize out the routes like some European cities have done....get rid of the lot of them...

I love the finish of this article on the ATU strike:

ATU members would be doing themselves a favour if they replaced president André Cornellier with someone who can articulate their positions and improve their public image. To top it off, Cornellier left Thursday's press conference at City Hall in a stretch limo. Quite a representative of the working person.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Business/public+first/1237720/story.html

"Ahhhhhhhh.Poor Yukon got sucked into a union.Pay your dues,and watch your executive blow it.ATC should NEVER be part of a commie union.Guess what.You clowns go on strike,and any bush pilot can fly any plane,anywhere in Canada,without you.You guys are like photo-radar.Redundant,and no functioning purpose.Guess what?Funny as it may seem,pilots will not run into each other without ATC.In fact,they fly more functionally without you clowns trying to line them all up.Now go back to your little radar screen,and call mommy to start supper."

Uh, nice try. While you may say that bush pilots can manage just fine without us, that's because they, well, fly in and out of the bush, you bozo.

Try telling that to the 9000 commercial flights that traverse North America at any time during the day.

I'd tear you apart piece-by-piece, but frankly, I'd be punching well below my class in every way imaginable.

I'm closing, I'll just say you don't have a freaking clue what you're talking about.

I do not understand unions. They are allowed to hold a monopoly on labour for a given company/field. No one is allowed to compete with them. Even their own members are not allowed to compete with other members. It behooves me that it has lasted this long.
I guess the justice in all of this is that the AAW and CAW are now competing with each other for the same work. Funny, now they are appearing to be more reasonable and GM may have a chance of surviving this.

justhinkin.....air traffic controllers are redundant!?

I suggest you justthink a little harder before you type next time.

Leeches first complain that their host is trying to fight them off.

Leeches then complain that their host is now dead and not feeding them any longer.

ulanov ... living proof that anger worked in the past to get their way in the politics of envy.

All you lefties out there now
Stamp your feet

All you lefties out there now
Hold your breath

All you lefties out there now
Bang the drums

All you lefties out there now
Get vewy, vewy angwy

FAVIL

Now counting down for ET's "investor class" lecture in 3...2...1...

I like your comments ET, I'm just bust'n your chops. Bygones!:-p

Still think ET's comment on Unions was one of the best. "When you have a Union the focus turns from the customer to the employee.

I disagree with Phantom, if "they" truly got what they'd asked for, they'd all have frozen steaks on their swollen faces right now. These people need a good'ol arse kicking, they've sabotaged the well being our nation and turned a blind eye to the consequences of their greed. I respect the right of the union to bargain collectively and destroy their (host)company. What I object to is the expectation that I am somehow responsible for the people effected.

Why change strategy now? I think many here give the unions too much credit. I remember the blockade and comments like "... bite the hand that feeds..." ect. I predict and recommend that CAW go on strike immediately and demand a pay increase subsidized by the government. This will put extra money in the most vulnerable Canadian citizens, CAW workers. CAW workers will then turn around and spend that money on the cars they are building. It's a win win right?

BTW

I could be wrong, but hasn't it traditionally been conservatives north and south that have promoted "buy American cars"? Conversely, hasn't it been the progressives that typically drive Euro/Asian vehicles as a sign of enlightenment?

I would like to know the ratio of American : foreign owned vehicles by CAW members!

Indiana...I live just outside of Oshawa (Bowmanville) and the GM cars and trucks are a staple here. The CAW and the folks that live in and around Oshawa are loyal to their own.

Just me observing.
btw I drive a Ford. hehe

CAW has bluffed and lost. Members will get from their union what they deserve. Really stupid!

Buy north American blah blah no one calls it for what it is "an American company". The truth is, American company's only care about America, as it should be.
Stop giving them my money and start supporting the Canadian company's.
Like for instance the Canadian auto makers “What no such thing”?
Cars like the Zen that are going to move production to Europe because all the politicians only care about is the big three. They pass laws that stifle the Canadian products, forcing them to relocate or go bankrupt and why? Well thats because the big three payoff the politicians with our own money.
I'm glad I didn't vote for Harper.
Peter

Congratulations on the Adler shout out this afternoon. He's taking calls on your post, right now...

Peter: "Stop giving them my money and start supporting the Canadian company's."

Do you mean supporting Cdn. companies by individuals spending their own money on goods/services or by the government tossing taxpayers' money at them? The first I agree with; the second not at all.

Nitpicking alert - the plural of company is companies; company's shows ownership.

Kathryn
Support for companies is not always financial
The big three only survive through government legislation. If they had their way, the autos would be manufactured in china.

Peter, there are no Canadian car companies because historically the infrastructure was just too expensive for our domestic market to support. You needed gigantic foundries to cast the engine blocks and other cast parts, gigantic presses to stamp out the body panels, hundreds of engineers to figure out all the manufacturing steps for all the little doodads that make up a car, all this just to sell a few thousand cars in Canada every year. Oh, and compete with the Big Three plus all the Japanese too.

Plus the government regulations regarding new cars were designed to make it impossible for a less-than-gigantic company to even sell a car. G.E. might have been big enough to break in, Stelco no way. Not a good business to be in.

Stephen Harper did not make it that way. It just was that way.

HOWEVER. The times they are a changing. Present technology allows quite small outfits to manufacture complex castings, stampings, machine parts and all the stuff to make a car. One man can quite literally assemble a brand new 1969 Camaro in his garage from brand new parts. It will be faster, lighter and in all respects better than the origional.

Sand rails and rock buggies are even easier. MIG welder and a tubing bender, couple of fiberglass molds, add elbow grease and you've got a damn fine automobile. Not a BMW but it'll get the groceries and handle any weather. I know because I built one.

So, if the CAW and assorted other leftist whiners wanted to pull their thumbs out and do a little actual -work-, it would be quite possible to start up a whole horde of little car companies right here on Ontariostan.

I won't hold my breath.

government controlled auto industry. it has been for years. the gov and the unions. result. self evident.

The Phantom
Sorry to disagree with you, check out the
Cars "that are made in Canada", by a 100 percent Canadian owned company, its called the Zenn
http://www.zenncars.com/

Peter, I meant something more like this:
www.superiorsandcars.com/
www.funco-motorsports.com/
www.jimcorace.com/index.shtml
www.sandlimo.com/
www.suspensionsunlimited.net/
www.avalancheengineering.com/buggies.html
www.worldcastings.com/
www.mendeolatransaxles.com/

There's lots more. Dozens.

Each one of those companies sells a buttload more units than the Zenncar guy, and they don't get any buddy buddy special deals from the government for ecofriendliness. There's no reason on earth why we can't be doing that here, more of it and better too.

Should a depression do sufficient damage to the Big Three that they all go bust, these kinds of little companies are what is going to step in and pick up the slack. There will be hundreds of manufacturers to chose from, not three.

Something else to illustrate my point. Ever notice how Bombardier makes aircraft, boats, Skidoos, motorcycles, quads, trains, street cars, subway cars but not automobiles? Ever wonder why that is?

Same reason you can't buy a Citroen, Fiat, Skoda Triumph, Tata etc. in this country. Its just too much trouble for the wee bit of money involved.

The Phantom
The zenn car does not get any eco friendly breaks, but quite the opposite. The government is doing everything it can to put them out of business. You can’t buy a ZENN car outside of Quebec and I don’t know what would happen if you bought one and then drove it to your home outside of Quebec.
Transport Canada is sitting on this thing, not approving the ZENN car for road travel. Yet in spite of
of this; the company is doing fine, most of the sales are in Europe, and the US.
My point was that we give billions of our tax dollars to a foreign auto companies (the big three) and at the same time try to push the Canadian ones out of business. Yes I do blame harper and the conservative government.

Sorry Peter, didn't mean to dis your company there. I have a deep seated dislike of anything eco-friendly. Gives me hives. Shame the goofs at Transport Canada are behaving true to form though, it would be nice to see some local guys make a buck.

At any rate, it appears we agree on all points except the Harper part. I particularly agree that propping up the Big Three in this country is a bad thing. They suck, they should go under.

The current racket/regime/regulatory environment has been put in place gradually since the 1940's, mostly by the Liberals. The CPC inherited this, they didn't create it and they can't remove it in an afternoon. Can you imagine the media response to repealing even one auto "safety" regulation? They'd riot.

I could wish the CPC would be more aggressive at dismantling the car racket, but then I say that about everything.

A pullout by GM would be too sweet. Yeah, it might hurt the Ontario economy a bit in the short term and it would suck for the families of laid off employees, but I'm sick and tired of unions kneecapping the organizations that feed them. Buzz Hargrove and his greedy Commies can die a slow painful death as far as I'm concerned (figuratively, not literally, lest any leftards get their nuts in a vice).

The Phantom
Just a little side note,Transport Canada said the only way they can approve this car, is to have a Governor on it, set to 50km an hour max. Even though its capable of traveling 125km. they want it banned from most roads and streets They are claiming its for safety reasons because testing showed it unsafe at higher speeds.
The testing done in Europe, US, Quebec and the independent ones, has shown this car to be as safe, as most cars on the road today at any speed, this is why its sold there.
Do you honestly believe, if ford wanted to put one on the road they would have this trouble?
The truth is big corporations feed the political machine with bribes and donations
“Government is the problem not the solution.”
Why would you think the CPC is any different?.

"The truth is big corporations feed the political machine with bribes and donations..."

If that were true, Elections Canada would be all over the CPC like a fat boy on a twinkie -> for vioationg party finance laws. As it is, the "big Elections Canada raid on CPC headquarters" last year resulted in all those documents being quietly returned to the CPC anyway, and no charges laid.

Peter, you ever drive a Ford Explorer? Talk about unstable at speed, oh baby.

Why would I think the CPC is any different? Because I'm -in- the CPC and I -make- it different. Me and a bunch more like me, just regular grass root members who put up lawn signs and keep an eye on what the candiates/MPs are doing. You have to join these parties and keep people honest by getting in their face when they do things you don't like. They aren't perfect by a loooong shot, but they are 100% better than the sleazeball Liberals or the friggin' wackadoo NDPee. Talk about fruitbats, omg.

These things take work, you know. Nobody is going to hand it to you on a silver platter.

You want a Zenn car, you start kicking over some rocks and shining light on the slugs you find under there. Think of it as a public service only you can perform.

We'll have to see. One of GM's failing has always been the desire to protect its workers across North America. I remember reading some gossip about the Quebec facility that made the F bodies. The workers were a lot of trouble and the quality of their work had tumbled but still GM looked for ways to keep the lines going. Remember that idiot Moore's movie vilifying GM for closing down a 40 year old plant when GM had the largest collection of U. S. domestic auto factories of any manufacturer and had for decades. At the same time Wall Street is hammering them for not doing more off shore.

One of the other commenters reminded me of something my better half told me yesterday. They had lost one of their co-workers to an industrial accident and had gathered for his funeral. Across the room were the union reps sitting with the plaintiff's attorneys. There's something not only sickening but unethical and immoral in that picture.

Peter, you're coming across as a delusional conspiracy theorist.

While the idea of suppression of an eco-solution by the big three and their gov't cronies fits the meme of the birkenstock crowd it just ain't so. (Say, whatever DID happen to that 300mpg. carburetor?)

Under capitalism, if there is a way to invent or design a better product and make a buck, it will be done. The two keys however, are that it be cost-effective and appeal to the consumer. Without either feature, it's a dead duck.

And that's the problem with the current ZENN. It may have potential for the future, but right now, when compared with cars like the Honda Fit, why would I want one?

For $15 - $20 thousand, I can buy a car that gives me 40+ mpg that I can comfortably drive from Nanaimo to St. Johns. And it will be covered by a full 5 year warranty, honoured Coast to coast.

I've looked all over the 'net for a price for the ZENN and right now it looks a lot like 'etherware' - lot's of hype, but not much substance. No dealers saying we've got'em and this is the price.

So let's assume it's in the vicinity of $12K. I get a tiny vehicle with a governed speed of 25mph and a range of 40km. With a 'one year warranty' that may or may not be honoured somewhere. Sure they're claiming that 2009 will bring a model that goes 80kmh and 250 km, but they're also claiming that their new technology battery system is still under development with a Texas based company.

As a consumer item, it's just not attractive enough when compared to the Honda or other manufacturers products.

It's purely a 'feel good' item aimed at the snob-superior-holier than thou market: "The ZENN customers are smart, popular, energetic, responsible, and generally 'with it'."

If you 'smart, popular and enegetic' folks want to part with your cash for an emblem, fill your boots. As for the rest of us, well, we'll just keep doing what we determine is in our own best interests and ignore the sneers.

"ZENN not only looks like a car; it performs like one, too. The ZENN is equipped with front-wheel drive, brisk acceleration and capable of achieving a regulated maximum speed of 25 mph. ZENN’s battery efficiency gives you the freedom to cover a lot of ground: 30-40 miles per charge.'

I have a question. Please forgive my ignorance, or whatever it is that you wish to call it. If there is 1.3 Billion people in China ( correct me on the number - but lets use 1.3 for this questions' sake ), how many of that 1.3 Billion are consumers, and, how many of that 1.3 Billion can even afford to participate in what you are pleased to call "the world economy", like for arguments sake, even can afford to buy a bottle of Coke? My question is this, if you would even dare to dignify my question with a response, "Does China need us, or, do we need China?" Is that a fair question to ask? Am I asking the question too early in this economic armageddon? ( did I spell that right? ) At what point in time will the world realise that exploiting slave labour is suicide - economic suicide? ...