the greenies never understand that the impact is built into the price on everything from windturbines to batteries.

and crushing cars and remelting them costs money and adds CO2 to the air.

"Well, I'm standin' on a corner in Winslow, Arizona
It's such a fine sight to see
It's a girl, (my Lord) a mirage
In a flatbed (Ford) Dodge
Slowin' down to take a look at me"

Yep, don't make 'em like that anymore, the song and the truck.

Nor the girl, either... ;-)

I have a 1990 F-350 diesel, it's a better rolling Gaia assassin that yours ... Wanna fight for the title?

Sometimes when you need to rollover a liberal, only the biggest truck will do ya.

It'll take more than a turkey like Al Gore to get me out of my F-150.
As far as Suzuki goes, I prefer the one with two wheels over the one with two feet.

The people that buy these vehicles are the "believers" for the most part if I am allowed to generalize. Who are the hardest people to please? Who is going to be 'outraged' in the service bay? As a lot of salespeople have been heard to say that their heart drops when they find out they have a teacher to please. Three trips, constant haggling, a newspaper clip from 1200 kms away the whole nine yards. Have fun! :)

Make that:

Every time you start that SUV a "climate hippie" dies...

....and I'll go out and buy that Caddie SUV that's on the GM firesale ;-)

Let's not forget about the hybrid battery issue. Which of course will be resolved by the time it becomes an issue, well at least that's what they're tell us.

I might not drive much anymore but I do my part to slay they Gaia monster by using my BBQ as a smoker and leave it running overnight with large slabs of beef - yes beef from big farting cows, slow cooking in some nice hickory smoke.

Might not be in the same class as owning a truck, but every little bit helps. Also drives all my socialist Gore loving neighbors crazy with the smell of smoke & beef wafting in their windows at 3:00am.

Takes a lot of energy to make something that saves a little energy.

Takes a lot of energy to make a windmill that can make "free" energy.

From the same pile - if it weren't for time saving appliances, we would not have the time to fix them.

Does anyone know how long does a hybrid battery last? I know it is different from the typical lead/acid battery.

Using a lead/acid battery for example, which lasts 5 to 7 years, if maintained properly, is it the same for the hybrids?

Can you imagine someone buying a 5 yo hybrid only to find out that the battery is not holding its charged as long as it did, range is decreased and then the sticker shock of a replacement battery, and we're not talking about an off the shelf Canadian Tire one either.

Hybrids...all the money saved in gas has to be out aside for a new battery, where the old one is now an environmental hazard if not disposed of properly. Some savings eh?

"Let's not forget about the hybrid battery issue. Which of course will be resolved by the time it becomes an issue, well at least that's what they're tell us."

What hybrid battery issue? My grandpa has one of the first Prius' in Canada and he does not have any issues with the battery. In the event that he does have one, Toyota will pay him a "finders fee" and take it away from him, to be recycled.

Allan; And give him a new one I presume.Do they give new tires and other parts as well?

I am convinced that there is absolutely nothing that is said by any politician or any save-the-world freak that isn't pure unadulterated bullshit.

Oddly enough, I have become comfortable with that.

And I ignore all of it.

Allan @ 12:11

I wonder if someone would pay him more to take that battery off his hands and independantly examine it...and then report on it.

;)

Last year, prior to the lease being up on my '04 GMC Sierra, we drove to Las Vegas. We averaged 26 mpg driving at 75mph on the Interstate.Pretty good for a 6.1L engine. I offset that with the recycling of paper at the Luxor more times than I wish to recall.
I miss that truck and it is just about time for a new one-no lease.
Another thing. When these so called experts are analyzing costs, you never hear a word about the costs of electric vehicles like the Volt etc, and how much you are actually paying in electric, coal, gas etc to create the electricity to keep those suckers travelling their 65 miles or whatever. It would be nice to have ALL the facts.

Speaking of which...

I wish I had a camera on me the other day in the US.

There was a Prius in a parking lot with "2USLESS" (or something like that) for a license plate.

I'd have loved to find the owner and ask the reason for the plate.

:D

Pfft. The comments are to laugh.

I have no use for those who celebrate how much horsepower and torque they have while doing nothing more than running to Home Depot every Saturday.

For that matter, I also have no use for those people who look down their noses at others because their car gets moderately better gas mileage than average.

In both cases, the saying about fools and money applies.

This issue is strictly about a car company inflating mileage numbers to get latte eco-warriors to buy their cars. Every car company does it, but when it's done in the name of Gaia, suddenly we should care.

The propaganda keeps coming.From the AP, Jan. 14, "Aborigines to suffer from climate change"
Quote:CANBERRA, Australia – Aborigines in the harsh Outback will be among the Australians hardest hit by climate change, with higher rates of disease and even spiritual suffering when forced to see their ancestral lands ravaged, according to a medical journal report.

As one of the world's hottest and driest continents, most experts agree Australia is particularly vulnerable to the effects of global warming.

The continent's remote Outback region is home to many Aborigines, an impoverished minority of 21 million who on average die 17 years younger than their fellow Australians.

The total population of Australia is 21 million,Aborigines are slightly over 517,000 according to Australian government statistics.

Vague statements such as this gem from an "expert"
warning of dire consequences and the need for immediate action (money).
"It's true indigenous people in remote and rural areas — there's just not access to services yet," said Barnard, who did not contribute to the report.

Women and minorities to be hardest hit if the cash is not forthcoming.

Toyota was very cunning , as they designed their hybrid around the EPA specification , which bears little resemblance to real-life , but Toyota was able then to claim EPA "mileage".

I suspect Honda did the same.

The "greenies" fall for it every time.

Ha ... wait till they must replace the battery for $5000+ ... then you will hear the screams.

Oh ... and the resale of hybrids will be a disaster. Who wants to buy a used hybrid with a $5000+ battery liability !!!

I would like to know how much -20c to -30c affects the batteries performance. I would guess a lot. Heating and defrosting also is a big drain. Say
you had a full electric car with a range of 100km
on a full change at 20C. How far would that get you at -20c my guess is not very far unless you were willing to freeze to death driving it. Hybrids and electric cars are a waste of time. But help weak minds with eco-guilt complexes "feel better"

I drive a regular Honda Civic 4 door cause they're cheap and so am I.

I'm not paying more than I have to for a car. I also don't want to pay a lot for gas. Transport is an expense, not an investment so the goal is to minimize it while getting the job done.

I've never seen the point of huge vehicles for those who don't need them (but to each their own.)

Hybrids have never made sense to me. What's more toxic: CO2 (aka plant food, aka carbon - the building block of life - plus oxygen) or battery acid? Not to mention you'd have to drive them for about 40 years to save enough in gas to pay for it (and that isn't even including the time value of money on a large up-front cost.)

Hybrids are about statements, not actions. They're about image and conceits and vanity. Nothing more.

I was talking with someone from Halifax who couldn't wait to get a "plug-in" vehicle - because then it wouldn't pollute.

I then asked how the electricity for Halifax was generated - no response. When I mentioned the issue of coal burning (I am guessing their electricity source, don't know for sure) - this still didn't make an impact with this person. Scientific education is sadly lacking these days.

I listened to Gwynne Dyer last night for a while on Ideas - talking about climate change - but the superior tone got to me after a while.

Bah!

Flash foreward 10 years if the madness prevails and we will all be driving hybrids or electric. Watch for a MASSIVE global battery industry, complete with large mining and transportation operations. We will just be trading one set of problems for another.

Grant @ 12:27

Don't you realize that at the current rate of global warming there will be no -20 or -30 anywhere in the world?

/sarcasm off

Meanwhile, back in Kyotoland - where all this Global Warming BS started;

EUROPEAN ENERGY CRISIS DEEPENS: GROWING CONCERNS OVER ENERGY WARS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The bitter gas dispute between Russia and Ukraine descended into near-chaos yesterday, leaving European Union diplomats baffled as promises to restart supplies fully were broken and Moscow suggested that the US had meddled in the affair. In a potentially alarming twist last night, Gazprom, the Russian gas company, said it was unable to meet its legal commitments to supply European countries with gas because Ukraine was allegedly blocking the flow across its territory.
--Financial Times, 14 January 2009

Europe's energy crisis demonstrates not only the dangerous dependence on Russian gas supplies. It also lays bare the fact that Europe's green climate and energy policy, in particular the continuous blockade of new nuclear and coal power plants, threatens to turn into a strategic fiasco.
--Benny Peiser, Die Weltwoche, 15 January 2009

[ Temperatures in Germany fell as low as minus 25 degrees Celsius on Monday night and the weather is expected to remain Arctic for several days. The country is covered in a spectacular sheet of snow and ice. Commuters are complaining, but Berlin Zoo's polar bear Knut is having a whale of a time.] SpiegleOnline

Do Electric cars have heaters ?

" ron in kelowna ... Do Electric cars have heaters ? ..."

Anyone remember the old air-cooled VW-Beetle in -15C temperatures ? the frost from the driver's breath coated the inside of the windshield and you FROZE until the damned thing warmed up ... ditto for the electric car unless you carry a propane cylinder to run a heater of some sort!

Comedy aside , the problem with the electric car , aside from the little problem of where the electricity comes from , is the BATTERY.

No one is talking about life expectancy of the expensive battery in a cold climate and how many charges the battery can take before it fails .

Not all hybrid drivers are radical eco-nuts. I'll club a seal and make mittens if my hands are cold.
I leased mine for 4 years ( so I don't have to worry about the battery) because I get a car allowance from work.
I get about 800 kms when I fill my 45 litre tank which was espescially nice when gas was $1.37/ litre.
The best part is that the Feds gave me a $2000 cheque through the eco-Auto rebate program plus I get to write almost all off when I do my taxes.
I could honestly care less about how "green" cars are. I'm more concerned with how much it's going to cost me.

Warwick, on one thing you are correct: The need to drive an eco-mobile is every bit as much about fashion as any Corvette or Cadillac. There are now a couple on this side of the river. It's certainly not a sample but I wonder why they seem to leave an inordinately large distance between themselves and the car in front of them. It's nice for last minute dives to catch my interchange but still wonder if there is some sort of slack action or lag in the mechanicals.

"Hybrids are about statements, not actions. They're about image and conceits and vanity. Nothing more."

Hybrids = Smug

Re: Posted by: PriusLuvr at January 15, 2009 1:16 PM

+10 points for not being an eco-nut.
-10 points for referring to the fact that you get someone else's stolen money because you made the government *think* you're an eco-nut as "the best part".

@ K Stricker

Touché. I'll try to feel guilty as I drop 2 large on my big screen.

K Stricker

Any taxpayer has the right - no duty! - to minimize the taxes legally owed to the government.

If you get a tax credit, take a tax credit. It's your own money.

[ -10 points for referring to the fact that you get someone else's stolen money because you made the government *think* you're an eco-nut as "the best part". ]

THAT !! sums up what it is all about. Well done, K Stricker. (first time I see you here (?) and it is a kneecapper !)

Hemi SUV idling in the driveway right now.

Grobe

-10 for buying a chrysler

-100 if some crook niks it from your driveway while you're on the computer...

PruisLvr - good point - and I didn't know that the market was also distorded by "free parking" in some areas if you had a hybrid

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=819c8548-329c-48e2-b1ee-26ed25bf8d7d

Erik Larsen

Free parking... well, I'll have to get me a "hybrid" badge it stick on the civic ;)

And i get preferential parking at Ikea...

http://www.auto123.com/en/news/green-wheels/ikea-offers-exclusive-parking-spaces-to-green-drivers?artid=83108

I'm quite happy with my Toyota Corolla. It was built in Canada with non-union labour, it's good on gas, good in cold weather, no experimental technologies. What more could you want?

oatmealeaticanuk@12-20
Suspect the owner smugly proclaiming "To Use Less" rather than "Too Useless". Probably an adherent of Fruit Fly Fascism!

Oh, but have you seen this? I guarantee this will make your day:

http://rightwingnation.com/2009/01/15/comedy-gold/

Fred: "using my BBQ as a smoker and leave it running overnight with large slabs of beef"

So, what time's dinner and should we bring anything?

The fuel consumption figures that are listed on the windows of new vehicles are way overrated. My 2008, 3.0L, 5 speed Ford Ranger, listed 22mpg city, 30mpg hwy. After 18 months of use, my best has been 24mpg hwy. City is around 17mpg. The salesman advised that the rates are calculated by running the vehicle on a dynamometer @ 80km/h in overdrive. No accounting for tire rolling resistance, wind resistance or hills.

mid island mike

HarryR.

I didn't think aboout it that way...

I like my version though.

:D

mike

Not only are the fuel numbers posted for each vehicle overrated, there is a lot of gaming going on to maximize them.

All vehicle manufacturers know exactly how they are calculated (as you mention road conditions, etc), and do everything possible to maximize efficiency

I hope that Kate posts this story.

This past summer I was down in Seattle and had dinner with a few friends & acquaintances. One of the latter was a Big Lib Lawyer. His fiance is also a lawyer. One can guesstimate that the pair are easily pulling in $200K, possibly even $250K per year.

In the middle of the dinner Mr. Lib pronounced how he thinks the government should add a Green Tax of a few dollars per gallon on gasoline. He said this with great righteous authority.

A conservative friend of mine who works for the big software company down there started tensing up. He then explained how he befriended a Mexican-American fellow at work who is a bus boy in the corporate cafeteria during the day and then helps out at his family's Mexican restaurant at night. The two locales are about 30 miles apart and the fellow lives even further away.

So using this fellow as an example, my friend asked the Big Lib about his lack of compassion for the poor Mexican guy who is struggling to make ends meet.

Mr. Lib was somewhat dumbfounded and could only mutter, "Ummm, everyone needs to do their part."

Isn't it INTERESTING how when these Save-The-World initiatives are brought in by the do-gooders, the ones who relatively do the least are the Righteous Libs!!!

In a similar vain, Google for "Mine Your Own Business". If you ever get a chance to watch this documentary, I urge you to do so.

1. As someone above noted, the fuel economy ratings are for specific city and hwy cycles that do not perfectly reflect what real world driving conditions are for the vast majority of people. The problem that has arisen with hybrids is that the difference is dramatically worse in real life - Particularly for hwy commuters. And they are usually the high annual milage drivers who are looking for ways to reduce fuel costs and have calculated the savings on fuel into the decision to purchase of their hybrid - using the posted economy numbers. In many cases they get worse milage than the non- hybrid model if the same car (because the hybrid system adds weight and provides very little power in conditions were the brakes are rarely used.

They should have looked at diesels instead as they do deliver much closer to theposted rate and in some instances better. But oh wait diesel is 30% or more expensive than gas is currently.

2. Everyone is making a statement by the kind of vehicle they drive - from the pious hybrid driver to hedonist 3500 dually with a lift kit and a pair of pseudo-bull's testes hanging of the trailer hitch. Even the guy bragging about his plain jane corolla is making a statement about who he is. (for the record, I drive an 07 Chrysler 300C AWD 60,000 km/yr).

I once knew a Gaetano Guano. I wonder if it's the same guy?

Erik Larsen- I think Nova Scotia still fires most of their power plants with diesel. Doesn't make an electric car very green, does it?

I'm all for saving money, and conserving resources, but I can't get my head around hybrids. They're pushing them as if they run on some sort of perpetual energy gadget. I think driving habits can keep your fuel economy close to a hybrid, while eliminating the huge expense of building batteries.

An acquaintance of mine had a great idea. He has a plan to use wind power to compress air into storage tanks, then use it to power any number of things. The concept of using compressed air to power cars has been floating around for a little while now.

Jim in Calgary- Where did you find a truck that got 27 mpg? I'd like to find one for work. I had an '05 six litre that was quite nice, but it sure didn't get that kind of fuel economy.

NSPI (Nova Scotia Power) runs a very large coal fired plant that sits near Halifax. There is a small amount of gas fired electricity, but I bet that 99% of the power in Nova Scotia is coal fired. (source: I did some work for NSPI) a few years ago)

Thanks dp and James - I wish I could find something that outlined how power was generated for major communities across Canada.

I think many people in Halifax would be surprised by the coal thing - even though there is a proud history of coal mining in NS - most people don't give power generation any thought. It just magically happens courtesy of electron fairies somewhere. Cheers!

I wanted to go green, so I bought a Prius. Then Dennis Miller pointed out this was merely prolonging the inevitable - that we'd have oil to burn THAT MUCH LONGER! So I switched to public transit - powered by electricity and diesel and consuming HUGE amounts of resources compared with my car. I mean, these things are BIG!

So I bought a bicycle, and one of my green friends pointed out it is made from steel, titanium, aluminum, plastics, and rubber. Darn it! So I shopped the world trying to find a bike made from 100% organically cultivated hemp. Turns out no such thing exists.

So I started walking the 32 km to work and back every day. That sure was a pain, getting up at 3 AM to get to work on time, and falling into bed the second I got home. The family was starting to wonder if I actually existed. And anyway my green friends just had to go and point out that my boots and other rugged outdoor gear are constructed from animal pelt, the fleece of exploited sheep, or petroleum products.

So I curled up and died, and in my dying moments I thought I was at last serving sweet Mother Gaia the only way I could: as fertilizer. But as the lights dimmed and I finally realized the earth is just an indifferent ball of non-sentient rock and iron, my final thought couldn't help being: too bad the whole damn green movement IS fertilizer.

P.S. I really DO use public transit - but not because some leftard suggested it. :)

By my estimate, I've got the greenest vehicle of anyone I know. A 1983 F-100, bought new, whose 6 cylinder has averaged 18 mpg for the past 25 years. The environmental cost of manufacturing it has been amortized over far more years than the average car. And I hope to get several more years out of it.
Congrats to you, Kate, for having a vehicle nearly as good! And congrats for winning the weblog award!

I live in WA state. We just went thru a huge snow storm that stopped the city of Seattle and others. Well I own a 1994 Landcruiser with a winch and 35 inch tires. For one soild week I spent most of my time pulling out these econo-boxes from the snow & ice.

I'll keep my gas hog please.

tarpon: actually, your DIESEL truck...well, it's diesel. Hell, buy diesel if you want to "save gaia" :D

"Diesel-powered cars generally have a better fuel economy than equivalent gasoline engines and produce less greenhouse gas emission. Their greater economy is due to the higher energy per-litre content of diesel fuel and the intrinsic efficiency of the diesel engine. While petrodiesel's higher density results in higher greenhouse gas emissions per litre compared to gasoline,[8] the 20–40% better fuel economy achieved by modern diesel-engined automobiles offsets the higher-per-litre emissions of greenhouse gases, and produces 10-20 percent less greenhouse gas emissions than comparable gasoline vehicles"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel

I'm glad that someone used the name "Gaia", here, because that is why we have this "global warming" crap. There are a "select few" that actually worship nature, and these "select few" happen to be in control of this world, and they have decreed that we all worship their 'goddess' right along with them. Up to now, 'she' has been referred to as "Mother Nature."

It's been almost entertaining following the fads over the last 50 years or so, but this last one is the coup de gras, for sure! Traditionally and historically, the masses have always been wrong, and that's all anyone ever talks about, anymore, is about how the sky is going to fall on us, and that the polar bears are going to drown on their ice floes!

I'll tell you what IS in danger of extinction... REASON! There certainly is a dearth of her in this land, with morons running after every single fad that comes down the pipe.

The polar bears are just fine... the Earth (not Gaia!) is just fine, so you pagans can all go home, now, and figure out what other nonsensical crap to foist upon a gullible public!

I have to go start my V-8, now... toodles!

Here in Redmonton, city council is working on a Orwellian anti-idiling by law. Stopped at a light for more than three minutes, the guy next to you could be recording your lisence plate to report you to the eco cops. The whole thing is based on your nieghbor ratting you out for warming your car.
Luckily I live in the fresh air out in the country, nearest nieghbor is a 1/4 mile away and would be seen in my yard trying to report some excess idiling. While everyone is boasting about their vehicle I might as well throw mine in too. 2003 ZR2 4x4, 262cid. 24mpg hwy and who cares in the city. Great truck.

The ramifications of totalitarianism is lost upon the "eco" crowd, Tewchip. This "global warming" crap is just that... crap. Oh, I forgot... they're back-tracking now that the 'science' for GW isn't holding up. The proper term now is "climate change."

The weather cycle does change, and we're getting winters like we used to have, forty years ago, but it's nothing like what the GW fanatics espouse. Our CO2 contribution is negligible, compared with what the Flora of this planet produces. Celestial influences far exceed what minuscule contributions we make, too. No, this is just another scam that the gullible have embraced, hook, line, and Kyoto.

Follow the money... and there is big money to be made in the "green" business!