The sign you should take with you:

"Truth does not hide its face."

I wonder how many of these people will be "citizens of convenience"???

Will K be there ,roaming the washrooms looking swastikas?

It will be a student protest. Subsidized foreign students.

Back in the 70's, student protests actually accomplished something. Now they're just another form of jihad.

I reported the event to Facebook Administrators. Has anyone else done this? I am curious to see whether they do anything, as it would seem some of the statements violate their Terms of Use.

>police had told her they are expecting 15,000 protestors outside the Israeli embassy on Saturday.

Not surprising, It IS Toronto after all.

>The only surprise in it is why we always show such surprise and indignation when it happens.

The only surprise is that the leftoids also express indignation when those same human shields become casualties. It's all part of the way that type of war is fought. If you couldn't care less about your own civilian population, why do you expect others to care?

dp:

If, by "something", you mean the death of 2 million Cambodians after the US pulled out of Vietnam...

The fight for Gaza is one which the Israelis must win. Otherwise Gaza will be turned into a rocket base (which it is already) with longer and longer range rockets, and more accurate ones, with bigger and more devastating warheads. Iran's proving ground, in effect: with live targets.

Anti-Israeli protest must be evaluated in that light.

Jews are to Israel as Hamas is to Gaza.

Well, they claimed that there were 10K "people" at the last hate-fest at Dundas Square. Pretty hard to get that many people into that space. . .

Is there a counter-protest in the works?

Kick.

Them.

Out.

I believe ET said Toronto has the largest muslim population of any north american city. That is really frightening.

Wonder how long the "youths" will remain calm. If the way the OPP has handled the Caledonia native confrontation is anything to go by we are in serious trouble and things could go south very quickly and we will be in a world of hurt.

I hope there is a good contigent of our soldiers in attendance to make sure the hate mongering protesters stay peaceful. (locked and loaded!)

I see the organizers of this clown-fest are as follows:

CONTACT:
Palestine House
info@palestinehouse.com

Demonstration Organized By:

Palestine House
Canadian Arab Federation
Coalition Against Israeli Apartheid
Canadian Union of Public Employee (Ontario)
Canadian Union of Postal Workers
Steel Workers – Toronto Area Council
Canadian Peace Alliance
Toronto Coalition to Stop the War
Not in Our Name – Jewish Voices Opposing Zionism
International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network Toronto
Indpendent Jewish Voices
Yosher – Jewish Social Justice Network
Women In Solidarity with Palestine
Muslim Unity
Educators for Peace and Justice
Canadians for Justice and Peace in the Middle East
Near East Cultural and Educational Foundation
Canadian Forum for Justice and Peace in Sri Lanka
Muslim Association of Hamilton
Canadian Druze Society
Canadian Syrian Cultural Club
Al Huda
Canadian Shia Muslims Organization
Worker to Worker Canada Cuba Solidarity Network
Somali Canadian Diaspora Alliance
Science for Peace
Bayan – Canada
Bengali Student Association
McMaster Muslims for Peace and Justice
Arab Students Association at Ryerson University

There's also a planned demo against Egypt ... on Monday at 2 pm

Spilt milk aside, don't we have two willing participants in this conflict?

If that's the case what's the argument about?

Time to start the Deportations. This is not going to go away. Make sure your auto fire insurance covers civil disobedience.

(as an aside) There are some really good looking anti-semite chicks these days!

I have been trying to find out about any rallies in support of Israel in Edmonton. A Google search hasn't produced any info. Does anyone here know about it?
Apparently there was a pro-jihad demonstration in front of Edmonton Silly Hall last Saturday and another planned tomorrow. (I hope that none of the demonstrators had their cars idling for more than three minutes - but that's another story).
There has already been an attack on a local synagogue here earlier this week. So far, none of the local mosques have been attacked, but I'm sure that the lefties are waiting with baited breath for such an occurrence.
I fail to understand why the jihadists would demonstrate in front of the city hall. As far as I know, we don't have any troops deployed in Gaza. Wouldn't it make more sense to demonstrate in front if Linda Duncan's constituency office (if anything in this fiasco makes any sense at all). Or perhaps in front of the Edmonton Separate School Board office (to protest against the Crusades). Or maybe the Old Strathcona Farmers Market.
These people are a great source of amusement to me.

During 2008, there have been 1755 mortars shells, 1720 Qassams rockets, and 75 Grad missiles launched at Israel, a total of 3550 rockets landing randomly in Israel.

I thought it might be enlightening to simply equate this to Canada. How many would that be 'like' in Canada. There are several ways to put the # of rockets into perspective…

Israel's population 7.2 million / area 20,770 km sq.

Canada's population 33.5 million / area 9,984,670 km sq

Therefore, based solely on population, it is like Canada receiving 16,517 rockets in one year 2008.

Based on area, this would be the equivalent of 1,682,539 rockets hitting Canada in 2008 alone. That's like 4,606 rockets hitting Canada everyday for 2008.

Somehow I sense that Canadians (including leftists), would be hell bent on stopping it. I have to side with Israel regardless of the media bias.

I'm pleased with Harper and Iggy's assessment of the situation.

God bless the silent majority!

different bob, soldiers? With live ammo? In Canada? Not a frickin' chance. The DoD would let 'em burn half of downtown before they'd even turn a wheel. They let them burn the whole 416 area code before they issued live ammo.

Can you imagine The National? "Peter Mansbridge reporting, Canadian soldiers ruthlessly fired upon a peaceful assembly of Palestine supporters trying to stay warm in front of a fire at the Eaton Center. In other news, the Eaton Center burned to the ground today for no apparent reason."

If Mel Lastman were still in charge he'd call us in for sure. We'd just have to use shovels instead of rifles.

Load these bozos into a fleet of eighteen-wheelers and drop 'em off at Fort Severn with a box of matches and a DVD of "An Inconvenient Truth".

Soldiers in the street, in Canada?

Isn't that historically a Liberal thing?

How many Hamas's does it take to screw in a light-bulb ?

2, but one has to be willing.
,

They cannot be deported, the Charter won't allow it. They love this country for all the wrong reasons. Their ingrained hatreds can be expressed freely here.

the city should put up bleachers and sell seats to witness this group cluster f**kup.

I'd pay 5 bucks to laugh at these hate filled morons with their poorly spelled signs, hooded women and kindergarten chants.

Maybe we could have some guest judges and start a new TV show . " So you think you can support mass murdering terrorists by making a fool of yourself in public, CANADA!"

Maybe Paula Abdul could find time to be a judge

I'd pay 5 bucks to laugh at these hate filled morons with their poorly spelled signs, hooded women and kindergarten chants.

Unfortunately it only takes one fanatic in the midst to cause serious violence to erupt. Do you suppose they might have any fanatics there?

God forgive me, when I watched the news the other night and saw anti-Israel protesters all in a frenzy, with their cries of Alamo Snackbar, I thought ... get the **** out of my country ***hats! I guess I'm just a bad man. 15,000 you say? Would it be okay to pray for an asteroid?

Would it be okay to pray for an asteroid?

Pray for the absence of a riot.
Kathy Shaidle, you be careful out there.

This very well may turn out to be a test for our PMSH. Balls or bullsh!t? Right verses wrong. On a National basis the ball may wind up in his court.

Too bad the Hapsburgs when nutty and started WWI. They had the right idea in Spain...

Time for expulsion redeux.

not another OJ protest.

Kill the Juice.

well. to quote Jim Lahey,,,"the shit apple doesnt fall far from the shit tree"..these lunatics are the exact same character as the lunatics in Gaza, just with free medical....As some ppl have noted,,,, We should all be ashamed when our kids ask us, how did we let this happen to our country...scary thought 50 yrs from now

If those '15,000' or any portion thereof decided to riot, all bets would be off for the silent majority.

I have a feeling that the good 'ole hockey mentality might kick in and the push back might be a real bitch for those on the receiving end.

End Muslim immigration now, or we will all be sorry.

Kursk

Better yet, undo immigration of those who are not compatible with Canada.

You may have forgotten by now ... it's been a few months ... but we did spend a good deal of time fighting FOR freedom of speech. And now you want to take it away from people you disagree with? How do you propose we deliver that message?

"Screw you, raghead, if you want free speech go back to palestine!"

Something like that?

May Ezra Llevant give you a swift kick in the nuts. Smarten up.

Did anyone go and read what Ezra points out, in liblogs a member justifying the use of Human Shields!
The blogger's Heart is also Saddened at Michael Ignatieffs recent comments Re Hamas. The blogger actually believes Ignatief should support Hamas, and the blogger tells Jason that they will not remain in the liberals.

Scratch an Orchard Davidian and find an anti-semite.

MSM announces: Orchard "is not Jewish."

Is Orchard a supporter of Liberal STOPIGGY?
...-

"The group that held the news conference in Toronto [...] was led by David Orchard, who twice ran for the leadership of the former Progressive Conservatives and is not Jewish.

"When the world community at the UN tried to stop the violence, the call for a ceasefire was blocked by the U.S., and Canada, to its shame, has fully supported the U.S., actually opposing the call for an immediate ceasefire," Orchard said.

"These actions by Canada and the U.S. amount to a green light for the killing to continue, and they make our governments complicit to the crimes being waged in Gaza.""
http://tinyurl.com/a3gdhl (canpress)

"Screw you, raghead, if you want free speech go back to palestine!"~Alex at January 9, 2009 4:50 PM

Alex, I believe that most people on this blog are saying **Screw you, if you want to live under Sharia law, oppress women, mutilate young females, etc, then go someplace else. Don’t try to impose these values on Canada**

I relish their freedom to speak about their values, that way I know who they are.

If there is any good news today it is that the Euros have stopped protesting and have gone all quiet. That's because their frinds the Russins have turned off the natural gas taps and the most sanctimonious peoples on the planet are freezing their asses off and haven't time to rant against Israel defending itself.

Europe is going to blow as their economies tank and they'll turn on their immigrants. History will repeat itself. If I were a muslim in Euroland, I'd be making plans to get back to whatever MessedUpIsatan will offer me refuge.

glasnost - the majority may be saying that, but my comment wasn't aimed at the majority. Sorry about the confusion.

Even your version is counterproductive, though. What you should be saying to them is "Your ideas are wrong, and here's why". Instead you're saying "STFU and GTFO!", which does absolutely nothing to solve or even address the problem. The longer we can stay engaged in productive discussion, the less likely it is we'll have to resort to shooting each other.

There's a rally in Saskatoon tomorrow.

"Rally Against The Israeli Government's Aggression in Gaza Against the People of Palestine"

sponsored by the Islamic Association of Saskatchewan
Saturday, 2:30 pm at City Hall

Anyone interested in a counter protest?

Even your version is counterproductive, though. What you should be saying to them is "Your ideas are wrong, and here's why". Instead you're saying "STFU and GTFO!", ~Alex

Alex, I'm not saying STFU. I'm saying that if your intention is to substantially change the laws of my country then GTFO.

I'm half temped to load up my pet piggy in my 4 ton 4X4 and go have a look see, but then I'v never been known to stay silent at times like these. Would hate to start a riot!!!!:-))))

Change is inevitable. Hell, I also would like to substantially change the laws of our nation. I think every Canadian should have a constitutional right to own firearms. I think we need a constitutionally protected right to free speech. I think we need to get rid of the government monopoly on alcohol sales. Wanna kick me out of Canada too, now?

Hi Michele at January 9, 2009 5:45 PM,

A rally in Saskatoon, my second favourite city in Saskatchewan? You could probably talk Kate into attending, she lives closer than I do.

My problem is that I will be attending a pancake breakfast at my dear old Mother's residence. This will inevitably involve bacon, and pork sausages. Hence, I certainly wouldn't want to offend any sensibilities at the rally.

Mississauga Matt at 3:06

On topic: I wonder how many organizations on that list are funded or partially funded with taxpayer dollars?

Off topic: I haven't posted often, but read everything (ok, except for new...)

Thanks Kate for providing this forum. I've been voting.

To The Phantom, Fred and others, thanks for making me laugh even while by blood is boiling. Time to find some little white pills...

Apologies for not following blogging etiquette (if there is such a thing)

Alex, so you're OK with Sharia?

Time for a counter demonstration.

Oh yes! What can I say ... I love the idea of never being able to drink again ... of being forced to get on my knees and bang my head against the floor 5 times a day ... of never again tasting bacon ... and, damn ... those Burkhas really get my motor runnin'!!

Don't be silly. I don't like Nazi's either, nor do I like communists, conspiracy theorists, or extremist religious nuts. There's plenty of idiotic ideologies which I detest. That doesn't mean I'm going to run around screaming "GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY!!" every time I hear about someone whom I disagree with. The way to overcome our differences is through rational dialog - through discussion and education. Telling people to "get out", on the other hand, accomplishes nothing productive. All it does is make you feel a bit better about yourself, while alienating people with whom you may have found common ground.

Posted by The Phanthom: "different bob, soldiers? With live ammo? In Canada? Not a frickin' chance. The DoD would let 'em burn half of downtown before they'd even turn a wheel. They let them burn the whole 416 area code before they issued live ammo"

Question:
They'd let them burn half of downtown and the whole 416 area code...........is this a bad thing?
Why would anyone want to stop it?

The longer we can stay engaged in productive discussion, the less likely it is we'll have to resort to shooting each other.
Posted by: Alex at January 9, 2009 5:26 PM

Excellent Alex! Your post is probably the best bit of satire I've encountered at sda. Satire is often too obtuse or too subtle, to be detected as satire. You, however, get it just right.

Wow, 15,000 I wonder how much “protection” money the Canadian government will give the Palestinian protesters this time?

I heard that the Harper government pledged 4 million dollars the other day to feed the army of Hamas when only a couple of thousand hate lobbyists showed up on Toronto streets. With that kind of return, can you possibly imagine that the government will cave into with 15,000 of them now? I’ll bet enough to equip the psychopathic army of Hamas with enough long range rockets to last the year! They may even get some child sized suicide vests thrown in as a bonus if they demand enough money for medical supplies!!!

Wake up Canada!

Posted by: Alex at January 9, 2009 6:28 PM>

“"GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY!!" every time I hear about someone whom I disagree with”

Now that has to be the most naive understatement of the problem with Islam I’ve ever heard.

“Wanna kick me out of Canada too, now?”

Well to be honest, with that pompous naivety of the world that you live in, I’d have to say yes! I would very much like you to live amongst some other cultures around the world for awhile before you bleat off as the “all knowledgeable one”. Many of us have already been there and done that, and our rationality is founded upon understanding the issue with feet grounded. Sorry, I know that it would be an extremely harsh ego deflation if you actually took my words as serious criticism, but we both know better don’t we?

alex - yes, I agree with you. We are committed to freedom of speech. It's vital and shutting down some demonstration because we/someone doesn't like what they say violates that fundamental right.

However, with regard to the I-P situation, I don't think that discussion is enough; there has to be economic action. Economic action that enables the Palestinians to have their own economy, one that enables them to participate in the world.

As for us, who are not there, and who can only discuss the situation - as you say, freedom of speech is basic and fundamental. Freedom of speech, freedom to access information, freedom to ask questions and explore - these are vital freedoms.

Just think about our reaction to the HRC cases which have tried to shut down the right to critique and examine and, importantly, make up our own minds whether to accept or reject other opinions.

Think about our reaction to The Coalition, which was a specific action against our right as a people, to choose our own government. We rejected that agenda.

Freedom to dissent is important.

"They cannot be deported, the Charter won't allow it."

The Charter can be changed. It's our country.

"The way to overcome our differences is through rational dialog - through discussion and education."

The Islamic ideology and those who adhere to it are irrational. Therefore, you cannot have a rational dialogue. Same goes for discussion.

And as far as education goes. The 'magnificent 19' were all University educated. The Mumbai mass murderers were all University educated. The bombers in Scotland and England were doctors. In fact, many of these terrorist Muslim organizations are boasting that they are attracting Engineers, Scientists, Doctors, etc. A degree doesn't make one rational, nor civilized.

"...while alienating people with whom you may have found common ground."

What common ground? Stoning for adultery? Throwing gay people off the tallest building? Honour killing? Genital mutilation? Jew hatred? Prayers that include cursing infidels 17 times a day? Following a mass-murdering, pedophile, thief? Expecting to get extra rewards in paradise for killing innocent people?

Next answer, please.

................

I think I'll go down tomorrow with a video camera.

"alex - yes, I agree with you. We are committed to freedom of speech. It's vital and shutting down some demonstration because we/someone doesn't like what they say violates that fundamental right."

Well, at least ET agrees with somebody.

"doesn't like what they say" Let's see, things like:

"Hitler didn't do the job" - Muslim protester in Toronto

"Back to the ovens" - Muslimah protester in Ft. Lauderdale

"I'll put a bullet between your eyes" - Muslim protester in San Francisco

Check.

It is important to remind some of the headline of this protest: "Israel must not exist any longer." I beleive we have a right to freedom of speech, but never to do with the destruction of others. It is one thing to say you are protesting against the conflict, quite another to protest for destruction. And I would say the same for either "side".

Should this not be a specific issue to bring to the CHRC? (not that I agree there should be one, but..) This is nothing but hateful and there are organizations that have attached their names to this.

Anne,

No need for the CHRC when the criminal code covers it.

irwin daisy,

so who has to make the charges?

However, with regard to the I-P situation, I don't think that discussion is enough; there has to be economic action. Economic action that enables the Palestinians to have their own economy, one that enables them to participate in the world. ~ ET

What enabling action would you propose? Beat rockets in plowshares? Establish a government funded welfare system? Hi-tech computer chip manufacturing?

Most importantly what part would Hamas play in this action?

I don’t know………Why don’t the Palestinians simply stop fighting? Lay down their arms, and make a global spectacle of it for the world to see. Why don’t they speak in one voice and say “we make war no more”!

Hmmm, with a little leadership and proof of their intent, possibly quite possibly, the inflow of guns may stop and indeed turn rockets into, food, medicine and a real economy.

Otherwise they remain decrepit fanatics, bent on the destruction of Israel at the cost of their humanity and children. Oh well, that said crush them all!

Facebook's standards are appalling, advocate the eradication of a race of people OK, advocate breastfeeding BAD .

Anne,

The Police. However, as we've seen with the Indian blockades in Ontario, the Police have been handcuffed by the multiculturalists.

Protesting minorities are above the law.

alex

What's wrong with 'shooting each other' if that's what we need to do?

Knight:

"Well to be honest, with that pompous naivety of the world that you live in, I’d have to say yes!"

Gee, I'm so surprised.

"Glasnost", you see what I'm talking about? If it were up to some of the individuals here, Canada would be comprised entirely of white christians of anglo-saxon descent. As long as they don't step too far out of line. Otherwise he'd start booting some of them out, too.

"I would very much like you to live amongst some other cultures around the world for awhile ... blah blah blah"

Well, considering I was born overseas and have been serving in our armed forces for 11 years now, I'm pretty sure I got you beat. Now take your condescending attitude and go sit in the corner. You obviously don't play well with others.

"ET":

Economic action is all well and good, but it won't happen as long as the palis keep up their religious war. If we're not going to let Israel sort out that mess then we need to put together a NATO coalition to go and do it for them. Unfortunately, nobody's really interested in doing that either. Sooner or later Israel will lose their patience, and then we'll see some real warfare and "occupation". Until then, it'll continue to be the international equivalent of a playground scuffle.

Irwin:

"The Islamic ideology and those who adhere to it are irrational. Therefore, you cannot have a rational dialogue. Same goes for discussion."

So is Christianity. That doesn't stop me from having rational, productive discussions with the vast majority of christians. That's because most human beings compartmentalize their beliefs - they can be perfectly rational for most of their day-to-day activities while holding on to one or two completely irrational beliefs or desires. Civilized people learn to work around the irrational beliefs of others in order to build a society in which we all can live peacefully. Meanwhile, ignorant bigots file everyone into simplistic categories, and then go around starting fights based on their own self-generated delusions. The type of religious warfare being practiced by the palis is a perfect example of what that kind of ignorance and bigotry lead to. We should be looking at them as an example of what NOT to do; instead, you seem to think that we need to out-fanaticize the fanatics. Sorry to break it to ya, but that just ant gonna happen.

"What common ground? Stoning for adultery? Throwing gay people off the tallest building? Honour killing? Genital mutilation? Jew hatred? Prayers that include cursing infidels 17 times a day? Following a mass-murdering, pedophile, thief? Expecting to get extra rewards in paradise for killing innocent people?"

I'm surprised - judging by your previous comments, I'd figured you'd be in favour of most of those. Hell, the bible preaches at least half of that list.

See, I know I'll never have a productive discussion with you because you are as fanatical about your beliefs as the islamic terrorists are about theirs. The only difference is that you don't have religious leaders telling you to kill infidels, and you don't have a popular movement organizing your actions. If we could toss you back through time to the crusades, I'm certain that you'd have a great time, killing, raping, and pillaging in the name of god.

Unlike you, though, I know better than to stereotype every christian based on what I see from you and the other fanatics. I know that people like you are outliers - the extreme fringe which exists on the edges of every movement. That's why I can have reasonable discussions with other Christians, while writing off people like you as a potential future problem. And that's why I can have reasonable discussions with the vast majority of Muslims, while writing off the extremists as a possible problem that we'll have to keep an eye on. Neither you nor they frighten me much - you're largely irrelevant to the world as a whole. The future of our nation will be decided by public discourse between people of many faiths, races, and cultures; it certainly won't be decided by narrow-minded bigots ranting in an internet comments section.

Alex writes, to irwin daisy, "'Stoning for adultery? Throwing gay people off the tallest building? Honour killing? Genital mutilation? Jew hatred? Prayers that include cursing infidels 17 times a day? Following a mass-murdering, pedophile, thief? Expecting to get extra rewards in paradise for killing innocent people?'

"I'm surprised - judging by your previous comments, I'd figured you'd be in favour of most of those. Hell, the bible preaches at least half of that list.'

It does?

Alex, I consider your comments to be ignorant, bigoted nonsesnse.

Prove your point.

Cripes....Is Alex the re-incarnation of Turdeau I???
Now(after I slap myself for doing so)...as Kate says...don't feed the trolls!!

Posted by: Alex at January 9, 2009 9:17 PM >

"Well, considering I was born overseas and have been serving in our armed forces for 11 years now, I'm pretty sure I got you beat"

No you don’t. ………..Sorry, but that’s my point.

Alex’s point is that all of the noble attempts that Christianity and western civilization have made to produce utopia have failed ie we still have war, racial strife,etc. Therefore the underlying tenets of Christianity and western civilization must be wrong and bad or even evil.

This is, of course, kindergarten philosophy.

Alex

By the by as far as “playing well with others”……I do agree with a lot of what you say on other topics. For example religious fanaticism or fanaticism of any kind!

I’m attempting to demonstrate that we are unique peoples as Canadians, Australians and in a similar vein Americans on the planet. Indeed the history of civilization.

That does not mean racist!

Without a doubt not all Muslims per say are fanatics, neither are all Christians fanatics. If I knew you in the real world I’d introduce you to Muslim friends of mine. The point is – as a special sanctuary of the madness of the world’s issues, from poverty to Islamic fundamentalist expansion, we are and island of sanity and freedom in Canada. Do not dilute that strength like the American Federal Bank printing money, it only creates inflation and the devaluation of it.

Prove my point?

Why is it that 90% of Christians seem to have no idea what's in the bible? You put it in every goddamn hotel room in the country, but you don't even read it?

Adultery: Deuteronomy 22:22, Leviticus 20:10
Honour Killing: Leviticus 21:9
Homosexuality: Leviticus 20:13, 18:22, all of Genesis 19
Killing infidels: Chronicles 15:12, Exodus 22:19

etc. etc.

Of course, you'll probably try some argument such as "but this other part says ..." or "but nobody listens to THAT any more". Which is, pathetic, really. It's the same excuse(s) we hear from muslims. That's because both your books and theirs are a giant all-you-can-eat buffet from which you can pick and chose "facts" to support whatever position you want. If you wanted to show that sleeping with dead underage goats was ok, you could probably find a passage to justify it.

I'm not trying to show that the bible is evil per-say; only that it's full of idiotic ideas and immoral advice invented by a group of barbaric peasants. Just like the Quaran.

The only good thing we can say about the bible that wouldn't be true for the Quaran is that Jesus, if he really existed, was probably a pretty nice guy who was far ahead of his time as far as morality went. Of course, a lot of you kill-em-all zealot types would have been opposed to him if you'd been living back then: by the standards of the day, he was a bleeding-heart liberal.

Knight: I get ya. I'm just not sure how you equate allowing people to exercise their right to free speech with "diluting our strength".

I'm sure there are many things we agree with. I know that Islam (wahabism to be specific) IS a major threat to western civilization in general. I know that the battle can not and will not be fought with words alone. But I also have no desire to see a resurgence in Christian fanaticism, nor do I want our people to start acting like our enemies.

Mainly, though, I was just incensed at the massive hypocrisy displayed here. The very same people who were bitching and moaning while Ezra was being persecuted by the HRC are now screaming and yelling for Muslim immigrants to have their citizenship revoked for the crime of speaking their minds. That's the kind of mealy-mouthed bulls**t that I'd expect from the far-left fringe. I thought the people here were better than that.

Alex you are reading the wrong end of the Bible. Try the Christian Covenant. Its the last 27 books, begins with Matthew and ends with Revelation. Don't thank me I consider it a service I offer to all anti-Christian bigots.

Some commentary, please, Alex, to prove that Christianity—that's what you were equating with Islam—teaches and approves the behaviours you indicate.

A mere mention of some of them in the Old Testament is no proof at all.

"there has to be economic action. Economic action that enables the Palestinians to have their own economy, one that enables them to participate in the world"

You're looking for excuses for inexcusable behaviors. Palestinians probably receive in excess of a billion dollars annually - $500 million from UNRWA alone, in support of 'palestinian refugees'. Yet there is nothing to show for it except increasling poverty, decreasing educational outcomes and endemic hatred.

Palestinians apparently have no interest in participating in any world other than the Islamic world and they appear to suffer from a cultural mental illness, exhibiting signs of passive/agressive traits, along with the cognitive dissonance of humiliation and victimhood being in conflict with a belief in cultural superiority.

Sadly, there is simply no room for rational discourse and debate. When reality is at odds with your core beliefs, there's bound to be mental turmoil.

"Why is it that 90% of Christians seem to have no idea what's in the bible? You put it in every goddamn hotel room in the country, but you don't even read it?"

Only an ignoramus would not know that the differences between Christ and Muhammed could hardly be greater. Find me one statement Alex, where Christ advocates that his followes kill those who do not follow abide by his dictates.

This is interesting! article in Ezra guy
what?

now look how jewish Isreali excuses can be acceptable or turnaround the food to put it to the mouth while eating food can be done by spoon feed dirtly to your mouth not turn around your head
what I mean:

Jewish Isreali said Oh you know "the reason we killed all kids in school
because
"Hamas wise to use human shields "
"

you right!! such big lie
can be ok in some case not in all most cases

The answer is No you have not heart and no brain and find cheaper easy way to do
because you teach your isreali soldure when you see small kid of Palestin hate them since
from childhood they carry gun and they are kiler from youth and they are not normal kids like us!

Jewish and American are lying to cover us their
uncondition love their land and their people!

I think that would be very good reason we can not blame Isreali any more for all death crime over children , no way

The same reason they asked Hitler why did you kill all those people

he might be answerd probably because their birth certificate said they are Jewish or he asked morel land to not pay his old war debt
so what that is not ground for kill them stupid!

===
I got sick of all both sides really for cover up their guilt and crime

all those anger and hate and nonsense and no brain

My mother always told me when you argue to anybody so long all is your fault and I always got mad when my mother took other bad peopel position when she heard some problems when i was teenger and then she respond me becaue if you are smart enough never should be freind with bad peopel to go with arugue with them in first place if you are smart always choose right person and when they do so illegal step back too far from them or find solution before going to big fight

again my point to say:

The only reason the war took so long in I-P

I can said I am sorry with no offence

both sides were stupid sorry truth is hard to hear

both sides has anger problems

both has bad business advisor and leaderes

both sides more than find solution keep revenging

they had bad spoksperson and bad communicators
both sides has bad freinds
etc...
----

specific problmes about Isralie was long period of abuse of Hitler to them killed so many good jewish and all not kind and samart get away in time of hitler came to Palestine
post dramatic they has made tehm grow with hate those Jewish who turn themselves to
new Isreali

this case is also can be seen in Hamas who used to be victim and not they turn and act some similar like Isreali too

even study life of Sadam husain proof he had bad childhoom and made him so no heart person in adult

I am concern
today civilzied socity talk to Isreali and Hamas both are danger for innocent society sicne these two group are grwo with full hate for so long
i am concern about their mental health fo them
they live in all BS look nothing happend at all

===
Few video about Hamas made me worry about them
What Hamas do in all those mix time tried to kill or destroy their competitors inside by power of gun to take moer power by bring more horror inside

the way hamas treat and with nto trial kill his owne peopel can be very very danger for futre of security of inside of Palestin after peace
those group can be hurtnt hemor turn to new sadam again if not beahve well

===

good news all new techonology and all sattlite systme
nobody
let me repeat
nobody
can take teh gun from any where and think
nobody can see them

they can see them easy now
this video
will
bring less viloance in future
since all those bad guys when knwo
world are record tehri crime in video
and all watching
are not going to do and let know
in PUBLIC
who are those people

In result the best time for both is to shake hand for peace because theire crime can be lead them to court soon after peace can be achieve too

If English people in firs place did not give tehri bad recomandation to I-P probably there was not need to have country called Palestine and
there was not need for all dead body

do we need land specificaly for Jewish and Muslim and christian to have seperate wall in canada

all are live here in Canada without war

some times having legal advice or direction from best freind or bad guys made today problmes in canada from bad to Worst

Having Palstin to change to I-P state
if any muslim and Jewish 40 years ago could predicte that may go this BS life
never they even think of those seperation

while divorce and seperation always is costly and hurtfull but in case of I-P was deadly now
it was so nice made one country
and new name made them called 'new' name
for country and leave together and travel nicely form one to otehr place with no wall and no war it was better conditin for them
I am sorry those English interfer in 1948 in I-P was made so much trouble for jewish-Muslim there that is fact
we must not this happend here

Posted by: Alex at January 9, 2009 10:12 PM>

Alex

Ya, I know what you mean. Really I do, no patronizing implied, I can clearly see you are a thinking individual. My view of this situation is as is – sacrificing one to save the many. I know that sounds rhetorical and insane to many, but I sincerely view it as leadership, not the discrimination of a person or peoples. Simply some cultures and ideologies need a fence between them.

If you have children and love them, and if you can fully visualize war, famine and totalitarianism in its reality, then you can see that this is the final bastion against the human condition (everything listed above proven through history).

Again our North American culture is unique and worth preserving, it is also ours inherited and to protect. Islam at its fundamental core is the opposite of those beliefs and the most basic of culture and the human struggle. If we have anything to believe or defend in our lives it’s that unique quality that separates us from the norm.

Alex,

Return to Bible studies. You state.

Adultery: Deuteronomy 22:22, Leviticus 20:10
Honour Killing: Leviticus 21:9
Homosexuality: Leviticus 20:13, 18:22, all of Genesis 19
Killing infidels: Chronicles 15:12, Exodus 22:19
---

In truth

Adultery

Deuteronomy says that if a man is committing adultery the people of Israel may put both to death. Leviticus says they both shall be put to death.

In practice, Islam only kills the female adulterer.

Honour killing

Leviticus 21:19 does not authorize this evil practice.

Homosexuality

Your first reference to Leviticus does say that homosexuals should be put to death. The second does not.

Killing infidels

Your reference to Chronicles is accurate but how long has it been since Christians and Jews, if ever in the case of Jews, killed infidels?

According to my bible Exodus 22:19 says death is the punishment for having sex with an animal.

It is interesting that you don’t cite anything in the New Testament to support your politically correct equivalency arguments. Why is that?

In any event, it is disingenuous, not to mention brain dead, to compare current Muslim practices with 2000 year old statements in the Christian and Jewish Bibles. Are you saying we should exercise patience for the next 2000 years?

Sorry. It’s not a sensible option.

I'm confident that this rally will attract a large strata of Canadian society.

/sarcasm off

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0K_zsxtGUdI

Deal or No Deal

What is new deal between I-P
What is not deal between I-P

This is very stupid game!
at the end of this show!

they are playing and you can laugh over dead body
made by Jewish while Muslim not mean it that way
you tried to explain it
This is a game you made we can not dance with it

I said last one so long I made this one shorty

I'm sorry Kate - Do not feed the Trolls.......

But!

Die "new" please die!

This protest is not freedom of speech it is pure hatred towards Jews. It is calling for the destruction of Israel - that folks is inciting murder and hatred. If they were asking for the destruction and murder of say Methodist - methodist should not exist, would you all figure it to be just freedom of speech. Give your collective heads a shake, this type of demonstration should not be allowed and should be grounds for being dragged up to the HRC. The longer we allow this to continue the worst these asshats are going to behave until we have an impossible situation in our cities.

I for one would never set foot in Toronto; when I drive north I bypass the damn place. I am all for building a fence around it and letting the tribes fight to the finish.

Alex,

"you seem to think that we need to out-fanaticize the fanatics."

No, I don't think anything of the kind, where did you get that idea?

"I'm surprised - judging by your previous comments, I'd figured you'd be in favour of most of those."

Really? Please provide evidence. Even just once.

"Hell, the bible preaches at least half of that list."

Somewhat granted. The OT has some violent and abusive passages. However, all of those references are kept to a time and a place. They are not commands, unlike the Quran, meant in-perpetuity. But then, this should be obvious, given I don't see hordes of fanatical Baptists, or Jews, raping, pillaging and killing on CNN these days.

"See, I know I'll never have a productive discussion with you because you are as fanatical about your beliefs as the islamic terrorists are about theirs. The only difference is that you don't have religious leaders telling you to kill infidels, and you don't have a popular movement organizing your actions. If we could toss you back through time to the crusades, I'm certain that you'd have a great time, killing, raping, and pillaging in the name of god."

Which beliefs are those that I'm apparently "fanatical" about?

Ending Muslim immigration, perhaps? Exposing and commenting on what is in the Quran, Hadiths, and Sira? Maybe, Mohammad's life example? Recorded Islamic inspired atrocities throughout history? What Muslim imams, scholars, terrorists and Ft. Lauderdale protesters say today?

Please, enlighten me.

Your statement says much more about your misconfigured brain than it does about myself.

As far as the rest of your misbegotten, delusional and childish rant is concerned, I have made a point about showing that the Islamic ideology, as written in their texts (the trilogy); and as expressed by the actions and sayings of their prophet, is the foundation of the actions and atrocities perpetuated by Muslim fanatics throughout history to this day.

Mohammad was a murderous, narcissistic beast. And all Muslims are commanded to emulate him.

This is a problem with the ideology and with those who strictly adhere to it. In other words, the most literal, pious and faithful.

Or, as an old Yiddish saying goes, "If it's in the bitch, it's in the pups."

Fortunately, most Muslims are nominal, not practicing, selective about their faith, or just don't know. Otherwise, the worldwide situation would be a billion times more awful.

If you have a cogent, rational counter argument and would like to prove any of the above wrong, the floor is yours.

Otherwise, piss off.

well

I love Toronto

Toronto is one of biggest and best city any body like to live

Am I right
hay people in Toronto?

Problems is not city the problems is 40 years outcome this seperation

I do not think most peopel when they plan to buy the new house when they know the house a week before there was murder happend like to buy the house because this is dicussing deal to buy the house that so many previous owner was murdered in the house

when you see so many innocent dieing do you wish to let east and west germany to put wall there

when two part need to get seperated the issue for better peace not for more dead on those ground

the intention of I-P is wrong
nothing wrong with city of Toronto to that regard

Thank you Knight for your remark
you are so kind
I never wish in my life for anyone even for worst evil maximum to get arrested and jailed not die

Posted by: dolly at January 10, 2009 12:38 AM>

Ha ha ha well said!

And to think Toronto was once the great city that all Canadians wished to visit so many years ago.

Yes, things are changing, Indeed……..so why is that such good thing, and why is it so bad to retaliate against it?

If and when Canada de-normalizes itself and becomes the equal of Mexico or any other third world county (as the USA is fast becoming, see Swatzerniggers media plea to the nation today) will the liberal left then jump up with some yahoo “we did it” parade in the streets of Toronto, and throw it in our faces?

Wow, not seeing “the forest for the trees” is so understated!!!!!!!

People grow differently even in one country

East and Toronto people act different this is not because we have so much mix here
Jewish Muslim white black chineese
more busy doing business down here warm heart

West such as Calagary people are think and again i repeat different they only deal more with
more English or more conservative way of thinking
are cold with others but good and kind with each others among themselves

This was issue in such small like I and P
they were so close to each other for 40 years
but grow differently not work not talk not deal not do anything therefoer made them two different people who even reconginze or know what they really want

some times I confuse from some Canadian
what they really want it from Muslim here

nobody talk relgion in big city such as Toronto

now some share of political view made people for share interest in country force people to think more in team work to get seperated or
rather than grow different we must be find
the way to join more wihtout hurting each other by knowing each other differnecs

I used to have one good freind in business he was very good untill he got closer and know we are different and eat different and diff ideas in so many small thing we come to stage not resist each other company any more

East and West in canada is also are too far from each other by kilometer and by people are there

small city in West most likely are not understand people of Toronto big city

Bull Muffins. I for one understand Toronto just fine. I live 4hours from IT, have relatives there, and since that turdeau balkanized the place it's been going downhill. Too many folks like our new have inhabited it and turned it into a boiling pot of stew.

On the topic of freedom of speech

The protest should be allowed to proceed. Freedom of speech has to include the freedom to express yourself publicly in a group of like minded individuals

However, there are laws in Canada that apply to individual and collective behaviors, and they should be applied to all people, even those who are expressing their freedom of speech. No carbeques, no property damage, no assaults or batteries on people expressing their contrary views, etc.

On the topic of the purpose of the rally

Israel evacuated its people from the Gaza strip so that the Palestinians would develop self-governance. They did. Hamas is the result. Gaza is now led by an apparat that is bent on killing all the Jews and expelling them from the Holy Land. In attacking Israel with rockets like the Germans attacked Britain with V-1’s and V-2’s, Hamas is living up to its Vision. When Britain fought back and even invaded Germany, where were the protests against Britain? I do not see how those of us who love our freedoms can support the Palestinians in this conflict.

On the topic of Muslims in Canada

Canada is a patchwork quilt of cultures. We are not a melting pot. In fact Canada was one of the first of the modern nation states to promote the cultural mosaic, and to their current regret, many others have followed. The problem with being a patchwork quilt of cultures is that some of those cultures that are welcomed in are not welcoming in themselves and they do not want to change. You then get a clash of civilizations within your borders – not only out there on the coast of the Mediterranean, or between India and Pakistan, or in Southeast Asia.

I would like to see the culture clash limited to the borders where they meet. I don’t want to see the clash break out into conflict within Canada or any other part of Judeo-Christianity. I don’t want to support and pay for brining in advance parties of a culture that is bent on destroying what I believe in and bringing my family and me back to the 6th century BC. We have progressed far beyond that and I like where we are.

Posted by: rroe at January 10, 2009 1:47 AM>

“Canada is a patchwork quilt of cultures. We are not a melting pot”

Exactly, and we can thank Trudope for that, can’t we!

What we wish to see and what’s going to happen now is the combined voice of our government and people!

I hope it goes well, because the alternative is…………….NASTY!

Thanks, Knight, for that response. Even before you wrote that, I'd pretty much figured out that the main difference in our positions is where we draw the line, but it was good to see you explain it. I still disagree with you - I think you're jumping the gun - but I certainly understand why you'd hold the position that you do, and I can't say I blame you. And since your "plan" would likely have a short-term result of further alienating Muslims as a whole, and a long-term result of creating the equivalent of a an Israel/Palestine divide on a global scale, you'll forgive me if I "pray" that you're 100% wrong, and that we never have to resort to it :) I'd be willing to fall back on such tactics, too; I just think it should be one of our last resorts.

Cheers.

Knight 99 at January 10, 2009 2:36 AM

"What we wish to see and what’s going to happen now is the combined voice of our government and people!

I hope it goes well, because the alternative is…………….NASTY!"

I hope we see the enforcement of our existing laws that reflect our culture and the creation of laws that protect our culture - like Dolly has summarized recently. That will make our country less hospitable for haters and they won't want to come here. Those that are here should be assimilated or if they don't want to assimilate, their return fare should be provided - even if they are returning to a country where their life is in danger.

This is not about religious or racial or national or ethnic purity. It is about a clash of civilizations. We are in a war, just like the cold war. We have been for a time. Many of the people attending this rally don't know it. The sad part is that many of the people attending do know it and are leading the wilfully blind down the garden path.

Posted by: Alex at January 10, 2009 4:08 AM >

Cheers :)

Alex as a world traveller (in the Canadian Forces (I think) and overseas for over 11 years - didn't know we had units with that long of overseas postings) you should know that the Israel/Palestine divide already exists on a global scale. You even acknowledge the danger of Wahabian Islam (I note you don't say fanatical Islam which in my mind includes more than the Wahabi brand).

I think we both agree that there is a war of civilizations going on. Where we may not agree is whether it has hit our shores or not. I think it has and many people here don't know it yet because we are not on CNN.

Posted by: rroe at January 10, 2009 4:44 AM>

“This is not about religious or racial or national or ethnic purity. It is about a clash of civilizations”

I couldn’t agree more rroe!
I would also add the word “culture” that so many people throw around so loosely as if it means the difference between Chinese or Sushi tonight.
I believe that the Americans had it right in the beginning – a melting pot. You can see clearly throughout their “golden years” the assimilation of anyone in their society, who bought into their ideals and their dream. It’ll all seemed to work so well until “melting” didn’t matter anymore and the “whoever and whatever” you wanted to bring to the party became the buzzword for the time.

I’m sorry, I’ve always been the USA’s number one fan, but what it has become is an abomination of its glorious past. I’ll set aside discussions of GWB and wars from Vietnam to Iraq and the commercial franchising conquest of the world. That is only one side of the problem. The other side is the fracturing of the spirit of the country through the unchecked humanitarian movement. From grossly mismanaged illegal immigration from the third world, to the importation of exotic cultures and alien mindsets, the USA has fragmented into dangerous mini states.

I kid you not; my SDA predictions for 2009 are serious civil upheavals within the US, sparked by the economic crisis but flamed with the rat’s nest of babbling races, cultures and ideologies. 29 million (realistic number) of third world Latinos have been allowed to crawl across the border “to do the jobs the Americans won’t do” (like construction). Now that millions of Americans are going to be out of work in 2009, many living on the street or in tent cities, does anyone else not see a conflict?

I won’t get into it, but my mind see’s oceans of issues with this lapse of a nation’s defenses. We already have a similar problem here in Canada, it is simply not as pronounced yet and we have yet to see any spillover from the US, aside from reduced trade.

Does this not constitute a death threat? Not being a lawyer, this looks like an illegal act and should be prosected. It's a helluva lot more than hate speech.

I have just taken part in a Facebook flamewar. I was harangued by a "friend" about Israeli "war crimes". I served in the IDF in the 70's and this kind of crap is very deeply offensive to me. Homicide bombers are resistance fighters but the IDF is guilty of war crimes. George Orwell would be proud. I'm thoroughly disgusted

What you are not know well or jump to conclusion

is that
every human is responsible for his action

nobody told isreali Soldure go to war and keep killing kids along the way too
It will back the lesson anybody can get
to act human from parents from teacher from having good freinds from family member from church or mosque to not kill and keep border

people who keep the patient are people go to heaven and people who has quick temper are not

This is international law and or we religion lover call it break big sin while small sin may be not as bad as that all or most of must follow
having all media and we can see all people can watch each other or know about each other you must loose your mind in today life to break the law easiy or has no brain to do so

second thing relatioship among all different culture and how we say you may not like among like or dislike made peopel get gradually seperated how to basically communicate in public in language you may not communicate with your own sister or brother or best freinds
i call it public talk kind of thing again this need to teach and people with degree of communication still has hard time to made sure when tehy say some thing in public are not cause so much trouble and that is only reason some talk show may stay longer than other in the air for not know this tactic

understand different society as well

how good police who obey law can daily work wiht bad peoel who dialy broke the law in jail or in court or so on

how good kids in school should or should not deal with bad kids

when I was teenagers my mother always told me try to have good freind and never talk with bad freind when I grow up i noticed this theory is work untill you are smal kid when you get older you must know the technique how to deal with bad boys and guys as well as good people two you can not speak with one language with both it did not work

all conclude is how you may see all protest is doing is wrong or may not that way but how you do not like the method culture they are made nuise notmeet your culture not the voice it go back to again i am try to say communication

if you can ask anybody to listen to your ORDER with once you can not repeat it twice or you can not force them to listen to order or law all back how you can get trust of people to listen to you all protest is come that there is demand is asking and people think may be this way may stop viloanc in area because peopel got sick of seeing this daily in tv and kill and not trust politican to able to stop it

If poltician did their job on time then no need public voice or union strike all will come in time the communication among politic and peoeple are not relaed or understood and major crisis in city are not get resolve and people take tehri own way to do the justice and this time that each indivual in I-P take thier own way to do teh justice the all treat will show up we can not allow each person go and do waht they wish for
We simply cannot all goes by border must contolled but not stop to hear them or you not to resolve it if you study all historial protest or cuba kodetta or relvolution come in the time politc and publc are grow differnetly and not know what people want
law and order-communication-understand people needs - prevent and stop problems arised- keep teh limit -understand society and culture differnce and how to talk in public and how to teach people morality along to act well as individual or so on and all is ethic attached
you can not generalize all wiht one look but also you need to analysis each move to right direction we may need to change some culture which is bad

Very simply put....Hamas is not looking for peace with Israel.
hamas has only one goal in mind and that goal is the anialation of Israel.

If someone was shooting rockets into my yard....
that someone would deserve a response....

in this case someone is shooting rockets into Israels yard....they also deserve a reponse.

Did the U.S. waite for 6000 more suicide bombers to strike after nine eleven??
No they sure as hell didn't!
Why should Israel?

Go Israel, you have my blessing!

what isreali did is two law
criminal law by killing innocent
civil law by taking what they must prmise is not follow yet

for people who do not folow civil law or break promise is not deserve to die but
authority in isreal need to get arrested for bring frustration to region too

isreali as politican can not spice salt to wounded and allow Hamas and come get oppourtunity too

i belive as Isreali did wrong as Hamas as well i belive both sides of poltic is guitly but guilty verdict is not necessry solution for death pentality
saying ok now hamas did misteka not i am
mass killing people for one stupid bomb their people

orang and apple are both round but two differnt spcies you can not order war for burp your stomak
by consider all society crash in that region so easy so simple with no border and let them go and kill more isreali
that is hate crime too

both sides did mistake and peple and all world are suffering of their mistake do not you think sep 11 also was not mistake of inside USA problmes offcourtse it was

the direction was wrong and still is wrong
first must do cease fired

BIG mistake west did or still doing about people Hamas or Muslim to generalize each person
you must cease fired
let idetify each person and arrest individual not bit all
as Knight said you only forest not see the trees and know detail who must live who must die
war never was best option in any history

if some one bomb your back yard you do not take gun and kill all your neighbour because of some one did wrong to you if you do this you are murder too

New you are such a fruit cake.
like i said, hamas does not want peace they want isreal anialated!

And, if someone bomb me and then run hide behind my neighbour... and my neighbour allows it....
then my neighbour isn't much of a neighbour to start with...... i'm gonna miss him!

cause i'm fireing back!

Go Israel!

"I for one would never set foot in Toronto; when I drive north I bypass the damn place. I am all for building a fence around it and letting the tribes fight to the finish."
Posted by: dolly at January 10, 2009 12:38 AM

That might be an extreme expression of the sentiment, but it is a sentiment that is affecting more and more Canadians. There are a lot of good folk in Toronto, some of whom post here at SDA. Unfortunately it seems that, more and more, they are being surrounded and drowning in the excess of political correctness, nanny-state-acceptance, turning away from traditional Canadian values, anti-Americanism, and too much in-migration of insular foreign, if not actively hostile, cultures. Yes, these things are happening in other parts of Canada too, but not nearly to the extent they seem to be happening in Toronto. Out here in the western colonies, I hear the place being referenced more and more as "Torontostan" and often hear similar wishes that the place could be fenced off.

I lived in Toronto during the late 1960s and early 1970s and traveled there frequently for both business and pleasure throughout the 1970s, 1980s and early 1990s. When I lived there, it had all the sense of a thriving and exciting metropolis. I am saddened to see the direction our Canadian metropolis has been taking for the last generation and the acceleration of the pace in this direction. It's not good for Toronto, and it's not good for the rest of us to feel like foreigners when we visit our Canadian metropolis.

Zionist Ideology, the Non-Jews and the State of Israel

http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/11860

bygeorge

if we have a airline full of people
and one hamas guy come and hijake the
airline who cary 500 innocent people

for your kind of idology

lets hit all airline to hit the hamas
but for people who has brain
try to neogitite to save more life

if you see let negotitiate to save life
for you meaning nothing
you only follow to hit one guy in airline
to kill all 500 pessenger

then try never go and work in any army or police force never and never try to direct peopel how to save huamn right

cease fire is used first to save peopel innocent life
next is see close to people who plan to see what they want

one at a time
if you see some film
you have to have brain for politic not dirty
one to save life

and that is science and art of good
communicator

this is similare a person plan to suicide when police get close the person who plan to kill himslef and drop to nigara fall for example of sake of arugment
if you said or shut at him he quickly will
jump on

when mental of human is get sick
and when you deal with bunch
of sick isreali-hamasi guy
you must not shut or bomb at them

you must made first step calm them down
to first then let them to listen
one at a time
i am not good in best communication
but i know your idea is
today conservative bush guy idea
war for ever

never work

we need smart peopel to think solution not quick solution
solution for I-P is short and long term solution and so many problmes may arise still too

people today live in I-P are not live like human
to think like normal human i am sorry to say that this is true
who can live with those abuse and war zone
thos people must be crazy still live there
or peopel who are poor or no where to go
or peopel who are oppourtunist for power andmoney stay there to take fish in muddy rivers
solution is first cease fire to save more life

And now, for something completely different:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231424906921&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Quote: "The IDF officer also said that entire companies of Hamas had been completely wiped out, and some Hamas fighters had gone AWOL or fled battlefields.

"They are afraid to come out and fight, that's why Mansi went out to fire rockets on his own," the officer said."

New.
I have pointed out to you that hamas does not want peace with israel, at any cost!
Their only goal is to anialate israel...so what is the point of talking to idiots who's only goal is to anialate you?

your analagy is that i should die so your guy gets his way.
What bullsh**.
you don't talk to thugs, you beat the crap out of them...they soon see the light!

by the way....there was a plane full of people on nine eleven that chose death rather than whimp out to a few terrorists.
good on them.

when the rockets stop....i stop!
till then...go Israel, you have my blessings

bygeorge: Show me where Hamas has said that the anialation of Israel is their goal? You're cheering for a mass muderer and tyrant...who wants to see Palestinians aniahilated.

Zionist Ideology, the Non-Jews and the State of Israel

http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/11860

df:
google: hamas charter:

Or, Go read Lorrie Goldsteins article...peace a pipe dream.

Or simply watch some of these pa demonstrations.
None of them are calling for peace....!
They are all screaming for Israel's anialation!

Go Israel!!

bygeorge: How is cheering for Israel any more righteous than cheering for Hamas?

felis corpulentis: "Yes, these things are happening in other parts of Canada too, but not nearly to the extent they seem to be happening in Toronto."

You're right. It's scary. You didn't mention one of the reasons why Toronto seems to be a runaway-horse. No one's at the reins and that's because Moron Miller is the mayor. This town seems to be run by union thugs and drug gangs, and it appears that "Toronto's Finest" are intimidated by both and have a hands-off policy when it comes to dealing with real criminals in our 'hoods.

You'll find the police on bikes touring neighbourhoods for kids smoking dope in empty lots, you'll find them standing around construction sites to make sure ... I'm not sure just what they're making sure of ... you'll find them at Tim Horton's buying their morning coffee, but as far as arresting the real criminals who are making "Toronto the Good" "Toronto the Bad," fawgettaboutit.

Over-taxed, honest, responsible, accountable, and non-violent Torontonians are being held hostage to political correctness run rampant which has resulted in the inmates running the asylum.

HELP!!

Deezflowers asks "bygeorge: Show me where Hamas has said that the anialation (sic) of Israel is their goal?"

Hamas Charter: Quote "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."

Next.

Vatican Official Compares Gaza to “Concentration Camp”

The Israeli attack is under increasing international criticism. On Thursday, a high-ranking Vatican official, Cardinal Renato Martino, compared Gaza to “a concentration camp.” Speaking to an Italian daily, Martino said, “Look at the conditions in Gaza. More and more, it resembles a big concentration camp.”
Carter: Israel Broke Gaza Truce

Meanwhile, former President Jimmy Carter has denounced the Israeli attack on the Gaza Strip. Writing in the Washington Post, Carter criticizes Israel for breaking the six-month ceasefire by launching its November 4th attack that killed seven Hamas militants. He also faults Israel for failing to uphold its commitment to ease the humanitarian blockade of Gaza.

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/1/9/headlines#7

In an editorial in The Guardian in January 2006, Khaled Meshaal, the chief of Hamas's political bureau denied antisemitism:
"Our message to the Israelis is this: We do not fight you because you belong to a certain faith or culture. Jews have lived in the Muslim world for 13 centuries in peace and harmony; they are in our religion "the people of the book" who have a covenant from God and his messenger, Muhammad (peace be upon him), to be respected and protected."
"Our conflict with you is not religious but political. We have no problem with Jews who have not attacked us — our problem is with those who came to our land, imposed themselves on us by force, destroyed our society and banished our people."[6]

Israel Rejected Hamas Ceasefire Offer in December
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=45350

Deezflowers: Jimmy Carter? Jimmy %$#@# CARTER??

(You might also want to Google Dhimmitude, further to your Khaled Meshaal quote.)

Yes Jimmy Carter...what..he's not relevant?

"The readiness of Hamas to return to the ceasefire conditionally in mid-December was confirmed by Dr. Robert Pastor, a professor at American University and senior adviser to the Carter Centre, who met with Khaled Meshal, chairman of the Hamas political bureau in Damascus on Dec. 14, along with former President Jimmy Carter. Pastor told IPS that Meshal indicated Hamas was willing to go back to the ceasefire that had been in effect up to early November "if there was a sign that Israel would lift the siege on Gaza"."

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=45350

"Yes Jimmy Carter...what..he's not relevant?"

Jimmy Carter was NEVER relevant.

Nemo2: I guess you chose not to read the article, or the paragraph I pasted...go back.

batb: Yes, Mayor Miller is one of the reasons, but the problems in Toronto started long before he came into office. As I recall, you have had a series of moron mayors, going back quite a long way (eg. Lastman, Hall), but mayors can only do so much damage. In part I think it's simply because Toronto is the metropolis, and the politically correct and multiculti rot is always more advanced in the largest centre. As a media centre, you also host the MSM which is becoming increasingly poisonous. Also, because Toronto attracted such a large share of overall immigrants to Canada in the past generation, it will also attract a large share of immigrant groups who have less desire to assimilate and who are more hostile to traditional Canadian values.

I'm old enough to remember when Toronto area federal ridings actually elected Conservatives, and most of the Liberal MPs from there were relatively sane. Things are quite different today, and that's a reflection of the changes that have happened in the broader community. Out here on the frozen prairie we do have aspiring politicians who are as moonbatty as, say, Caroline Parrish, but it is rare for them to be elected. Even Judy Washyourgreasyknees has a way to go before she achieves the stature in moonbattery of a Peggy Nash or Caroline Parrish.

The union thugs and drug gangs are present in our prairie cities as well, but they don't seem to have the same impact. The organization for which I work has a CUPE bargaining unit and, in the past, it has had leaders who wanted to take their cue from people like Sid Ryan, but the membership typically dumps them when they get too embroiled in the "national agenda". Also here, the justice system is not harsh enough on the gangs and gang members, but still seems to contain them better than they are contained in Toronto.

I sincerely wish you and the other accountable and non-violent Torontonians the best in trying to contain and maybe reverse the tide of erosion in public morality. Voting in a common sense mayor would be a good start.

"Nemo2: I guess you chose not to read the article, or the paragraph I pasted...go back."

Oh, I read the article, (I also checked out ips 'news' and their general stance), and I've also been around enough to take what the Arabs say with a pinch of salt, while watching what they do.

Nemo2: So how is Jimmy Carter irrelevant then? But you take what ever comes out of Israel as pure truth?

felis corpulentis: All good points. That's right, Mel Lastman and Barbara Hall sure paved the way for the out-of-control moonbattery at City Hall, not to mention Jack Layton's contributions when he was elected to City Council.

Having moved back to TO after 30 years away, I was glossing over the deterioration in sanity and integrity of our civic leaders. "I'm old enough to remember when Toronto area federal ridings actually elected Conservatives, and most of the Liberal MPs from there were relatively sane." Touche! LOL!

Poor old Toronto: like a woman who's seen better days. Thanks for the encouragement, fc.

Nemo2: So how is Jimmy Carter irrelevant then?

Were you around when he was President?

Nemo2: No I wasn't. What does his presidency have to do with anything?

And what about the website...ips. What's wrong with it?

http://www.ips.org/institutional/

Information is an agent of change. Since its inception, back in 1964, IPS has believed in the role of information as a precondition for lifting communities out of poverty and marginalization. This belief is reflected in our historic mission:

“giving a voice to the voiceless” - acting as a communication channel that privileges the voices and the concerns of the poorest and creates a climate of understanding, accountability and participation around development, promoting a new international information order between the South and the North.

The statutes of the IPS International Association provide a formal organisational framework for carrying out our mission.

To fulfil this very important mission, IPS has developed a three-pronged strategy that is reflected in its three main areas of work:

Providing news and content: producing stories and analyses, which explain how events and global processes affect individuals and communities, especially the marginalised and voiceless.
Capacity-building: empowering journalists, media organisations and civil society to be better able to communicate effectively by leveraging IPS’ unique character as a Southern-focused news agency, offering a different kind of training and follow-up.
Dissemination and networking: building an information bridge linking civil society, international institutions, policy-makers, donors and individual readers, to promote an ongoing dialogue about communication and development for a better world.

Deezflowers: Carter's presidency defined the person; I didn't like him then and I don't like him now.

As to IPS, what you apparently view as commendable, I see as lefty utopian bullshit and it would probably take a lifetime of experience for you to be able to tell the difference.

Cheers.

Whats the matter df?
didn't you read the hamas charter?

December cease fire my arse... hamas has pumped six thousand rockets into israel over the last three years, and all under a cease fire!

by the way...who do you think is supplying hamas with the rockets?
That would be Iran....those are the guys who right now, trying to put togeather a nuke so they can anialate irael and at the same time, that strip of sand called gaza. What's you gonna say then df? or should i guess?

Me, i'm sticking with Israel!

Nemo2: You haven't even approached explaining how Carter is irrelevant.

"Lefty utopian bullshit"...nice bit of propaganda. How is news from the perspective of the south "lefty utopian"...or is anything that's not strictly right wing "lefty utopian bullshit"?

Hamas seems to have no issue whatsoever of providing its people with millions of dollars in small arms, ammunition, rockets and mortars!

Yet they starve??

As we send millions of dollars in food aid to the Palestinians we have become participating non-combatants in their war on Israel. When the next rocket fired into Israel kills some children in a school, you may be proud to know that you kept an army of fanatics well fed instead of forcing them to trade in their guns for food, but this Canadian will NOT be!

Major problems in Toronto is
gangs crime using druge and link with gun

price of utilities gas and electricity is quit high and house tax is high and business tax is high
even since Sep 2007 new tax was added for peopel who live in Toronot and have a car for plate renovation must pay extra $60 dollar

good about education is picking up
facilty of living is better
not typical and good for old people except if they move to condomenium

transportation is good and fast except in time of big events in sports and

parking ticket is expenisive in down town for you have need to go down town for some job to do

people are seperated but talk or act kind to each other

too much trafic tickets and parking ticket
good i never had any ticket in my life
I am good driver I guess

Muslim are in scarbourgh and Missisuga and northyork of Metro Toronot

down twon are more portogese and black african are office work people kind of people or too young for fun walking or rid bycicl or chinnese are helping

too many gaeys for sure in Toronot down town

English has in rich area like Post road north york and
so many jewish in Toronto we have too

problmes was decreasing in this year it was very bad two years ago

people has no problmes seeing diff colour of fate or background
I do not take subway for long time but people who do tell me you can see quiet so many diff in subway to see how Torontonian are look like

not smart police sorry

black teengers is not acting good in Toronot too

Muslim are doing fine in toronto so far
did good job

Hospital in emergency is doing very lazy job
hard to find family doctor in city if you move location

Bayview is street of all religious
jewish Muslim and Hindo and Budism and christina and all kind of relgion has temple or mosue
in this street
they call Bayview holly mix street

I think Toronot is quit fine

except cost of living it too high in compare with income earning peopel in live in Toronto must gain more salary for more expense in top of their head

in General people who live in Toronto are look smart to me in compare with other far away from Toronot when you go with around Toronto who are 3 to 6 hour far from Toronot you facing people who hate multiculturism and mostly are English or German people live in suborb or Italian mostly catholic are in down town are pourtgese people

Jimmy Carter was a terrible president. Were it not for Jimmy, and his belief in appeasement/inaction as a solution to the world's problems, we might very well not be in the situation we find ourselves in today.

Jimmy diddled and then quivered while the Shah of Iran was overthrown in favour of the Ayatollah Khomeini, setting the stage and base of operations for an Islamic fundamentalist state in the Middle East.

The one good thing that can be said for the wealthy peanut farmer from Georgia, is that he was and is, entirely predictable. He's still the world's finest useful idiot.

cehnehdeh - I hope you dont mind. I am copying your post and pasting it in a forum at yahoo.canada under the same topic. Your post has put into perceptive numbers that make sense to me.

bygeorge: Those rockets are about the size of a toy rocket. They are homemade. They've killed less Israeli's than I can count on my hand. Don't make them out to be more than they are.

Knight 99: You are confused my friend. Those homemade bombs and small arms certainly don't cost millions of dollars. You are exaggerating things in ridiculous proportions. We support Israel if anybody. Those food aids, ect haven't been getting in, do you not realize that Gaza has been blockaded by Israel for the last 6 months.

For you real conservatives...none of this lefty, righty BS...REAL CONSERVATIVES. Visit Dr. Ron Paul's site...he's a republican from Texas, he strongly believes in liberty. He's for small government, non-interventionalist foreign policy, rights of the people, ect.

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/

Posted by: Deezflowers at January 10, 2009 11:14 PM>

“Those rockets are about the size of a toy rocket. They are homemade”

“You are confused my friend. Those homemade bombs and small arms certainly don't cost millions of dollars”

Homemade?

http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/?p=18491

http://newsblaze.com/story/20080305190750payn.nb/topstory.html

I’m not confused at all. Hamas is being supplied weapons by Iran and Syria, if they can receive weapons they can receive food.

We know who Ron Paul is. Wished he made president.

Knight99: if you wished he was president why do you not listen to anything he says?

The sanfrancisco sentinel..you gave me a link to a local american newspaper?

Have you heard of any long range, large missile attacks? Or just mortors and homemade missiles being lobbed over the border?

Posted by: Deezflowers at January 10, 2009 11:54 PM>

I believe I answered some of your questions in a more recent thread newly posted, so I won’t bother repeating………

Anyway gotta go, early flight in the morning, will be commenting on SDA in a few days with “the call to prayer” blasting in my ears from a crappy overhead PA system and listening to a bunch of people lecture me about “culture”………………

Cheers.

Deezflowers – if you change the name do you change the brain? No!

You are still behaving like a Hamas propagandist or provocateur in training. Some paraphrasing of positions you appear to have taken illustrates my point. “They are only small rockets so that is ok.” “Hamas offered a cease fire and Israel didn’t accept so Israel is bad.” “The historical context is not important beyond when I say it is.”

Different name, same smell, as Shakespeare would say.

But you still ask questions. You admit to being very young. That is usually accompanied by being very naïve. Naivety is cured by experience and education. To that end I suggest you read Huntington’s, “The Clash of Civilizations?” http://www.foreignaffairs.org/19930601faessay5188/samuel-p-huntington/the-clash-of-civilizations.html
Or you can read the full book that followed that. Then think about it. Talk about it with some of your friends. Then ask yourself if what Jimmy Carter did during his Presidency reflected in any way an understanding of that thesis.

I also suggest you educate yourself on the history of the region from its Judaic origins to present. What you see now has been going on for untold centuries. It doesn’t make it right, but marching in Toronto and won’t stop it. It will only export it. And we don’t want it here.

Deezflowers, read the Hamas Charter.
Look it up. Google it.

There's a Globe and Mail article about a study of the use of racist words. Where's the outrage over today's protesters issuing death threats?

C.U.P.E. and the Postal union are supporting this garbage?

Yes, I get the Hamas charter. I also don't see any real threat to Israel. I also see Israel breaking International rules in much the same manner as the US did going in to Iraq.

rroe: Show me where I've posted propaganda. The only propaganda I'm seeing posted, other than the bits by Kate, is on the side of Israel. Look at all these posts praising Israel for killing civilians by the hundreds...and with no discussion of the issues behind the whole situation. The ignorance is staggering.

You seem to enjoy creating straw men to argue against. Assumptions and "paraphrasing" (which looks more like putting words into my mouth) are poor debate tactics.

They are only small rockets was meant to put some reality into the context of the situation as people seem to act like Hamas actually has the ability to threaten Israel.

Israel broke the already standing cease-fire, and rejected recent UN and third party developed cease fires.

The historical part, not sure how you come up with that one from anything I've said. I believe I've stressed the historical context while others see only what the western media feeds them. Hell, just look at the links Kate provides...the NY times....you're gonna trust the NY Times??? On a matter that links directly back to the US? Don't be so naive.

You linking being young with being naive...that would be naive, and ignorant. Labeling and stereotyping, two things you seem to be good at.

Jimmy Carter was just one of the people involved in writing up a cease-fire...that's it...I don't care about his presidency, that's not what this issue is about...so drop it.

It's judaic origins say that Israel should not be colonized until "Jesus returns". International Law recognizes the Gazan strip as Palestinian land, yet Israel has been occupying it with military force. Or do you ignore anything that doesn't prop up Israel as the poor innocent victim.

Deezflowers says " I get the Hamas charter. I also don't see any real threat to Israel."
.........................
As I posted earlier:
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."

If you don't view this as a 'threat', just compare it to the relatively innocuous, (apologies to Godwin), 'final solution' embarked upon by one Mr Schicklegruber.

'Final solution'. Sounded like he was prepared for a mutually acceptable agreement, didn't it? And we know how that turned out.

Nemo2: One must distinguish between a real threat and words. Israel receives billions of dollars from the US, some of that is in the form of military machinery. Therefore not only do they have the quantity, but the quality, high tech weapons. Gaza is a dense urban neighborhood, and a refugee camp. No, Hamas isn't innocent and aren't a group that should rule anything.

Deezflowers: I'd call Hamas' statement a Letter Of Intent, the intent being that, when they recieve the 'appropriate' weaponry from their sponsor(s) they will use it.

(Y'know, I've never cared for the 'refugee camp' analogy so often used; I wandered into Gaza in 1982, it was a built up area then and is more so now.......it's time for the Palis to stop crying "Poor me" and get their asses into gear.)

Finally something more than socratic questions from Deeznuts/flowers. And it reveals the true nature of the beast.

I am not stereotyping. I am engaging in even more juvenile behaviour. I am name calling.

rroe: Sorry, I'm not quite following you.

As a born Canadian of Portuguese decent I proudly stood with the Demonstrators and called for the state of Israel to remove themselves from occupied Palestine.