I've always thought it's rather exclusionary, divisive and uninclusive not to string our winter lights on deciduous trees too.

By the way, isn't celebrating New Year's Eve on December 31st a slap in the face to the Chinese community?

I live in Brampton and trust me -- with what appears on the street to be a 10/1 ratio of ethnic middle-easterners to anglos throughout, it comes as a big surprise that the city is doing anything at all!

Values, tradition, beliefs, given up for what?

Sad...........

On a positive note, was driving in Saskatoon last night and I was faced with a city bus that had "Merry Christmas" as the message on the lighted sign on the front of it. It was very nice to see.

In Calgary too... bus signs say Merry Christmas.

These politically correct asshats can stay out East ... they deserve them.

Brampton is GTA. The old maps of the area just had pictures and a warning that "there be dragons."

Nothing good can come from the GTA. Send them on with Quebec when we force their exit.

A few years ago the downtown Calgary Bay store sported "Happy Ramadan" stickers on the entrance doors during Ramadan. I didn't have a problem with it because my Christian beliefs are not so fragile as to have been "damaged" by seeing this.

Jew, Muslims, and Buddhists are usually not members of the Nativity Police because 95% of them don't feel the need to elevate themselves by oppressing others. The Nativity Police are usually white, native born, slightly angry and insecure secularists who spend most of their time intimidating spineless business owners and HR types at companies.

As per Adam's hopeful comment about the bus in Saskatoon last night the Nativity Police reached their nadir a couple of years ago. When I heard them being lampooned on CBC radio last year I knew their power must be slipping.

My... how politically correct!

Let me report, however, some good news... downstairs in my apartment building's lobby, there's a big banner that says "Merry Christmas". And, despite it being a building of "diverse" tenants, I haven't heard of any complaints. And the landlord company actually invited the residents to a "Christmas Social". Not a "winter social" or a "holiday social" or a "diversity social" or something silly like that.

And in my city, there's a billboard ad that implores, "Keep Christ in Christmas".

And today, someone said "Merry Christmas" to me... yep, I said it back.

Smiles all over... remember, the Leftists who put that silly ad on the back of that Brampton bus had to pay for it.

To add to what Wonderwoman stated its a surprise that they do anything at all in Bramptondesh.

"Winter Lights"?!?!?

I almost wish for a graffiti artist to spray paint "Festivus" over top of such PC nonsense!

Is this winter lights celebration sponsored by Noma?
I sure wish we were still out west... Onscario has become a political correct blur of muddy nothingness.... *sigh*

Merry Christmas!

Same deal here in Halifax. Have not had a Santa Claus parade for years now. They hold it in November and call it the Parade of Lights.

Sad to be going along the same lines as those idiots out west in Ontario.

Ahh well, we still give big A$$ Christmas Tree to the good folks of Boston each year.

Maybe Jesus should legally change his name to Winter or Holiday just to get his brand back.

Personally, I celebrate the winter solstice at this time of year.

You know, something that actually happened 2000 years ago.

They only have the power you give them. Merry Christmas! :))

My arguments against Christmas are mostly theological, not cultural, and above all they are personal. If others wish to celebrate Christmas I certainly wouldn't presume to take it upon myself to hinder or in any way impede them. Nor will I be of any inclination to embrace whatever multiculti nonsense is thrown up in its stead.

Lickmuffin--should be called suckmuffin--you are a sad case.

However, please carry on shopping. The province needs the sales tax revenue. Ottawa needs the GST revenue. And the city needs the retailers to survive for its own tax revenue needs.

The question this brings to mind to the unenlightened among us (myself being a prime example), is why isn't the holiday shopping promoted throughout the year? Or why promote it at all?

Oh no! We can't have the Judeo-Christians stop shopping during the 'holiday season'...

A winter lights celebration -- hummmm...I don't think I'm offended today! But all I'll say is keep Christ in Christmas

Memo from the CHRC [Canadian Holiday Research Corporation]:
All words in brackets will ultimately be expunged.

The following songs are politically correct (Christmas) Holiday Carols

1- I’m Dreaming of a White Holiday
2- I’ll be Home for Holiday
3- There’ll be a Blue, Blue Holiday Without You
4- The Holiday Song
5- Merry Little Holiday
(Noel) is French for (Christmas) hence the song becomes
“The First Holiday.”

In countries where (Santa) (Claus) is known as Father Christmas, his name will be changed to Father Holiday.
In addition, The word Santa really means (Saint) and that too will be abolished. Henceforth, he will be called Holiday Guy so the masses will know we’re referring to that Jolly (fat) heavy (old) senior (man) (man is a tough one to get rid of , but we’re trying) formerly known as (Santa Claus.)
(Claus) is in doubt, but it will be changed too because we just know the guy offends a lot of people.
Songs
1- Here comes Holiday Guy, here comes Holiday Guy
2- Holiday Guy is coming to town
3- Jolly Senior Holiday Guy [Jolly Old St. Nicholas]
Other changes:
(Angels) we have heard on High becomes
Obama, Layton, Dion and Duceppe we have heard on high

Artists who have recorded such carols will be ordered to re-record them using appropriate wording. Dead artists like Elvis and Bing etc., who have recorded (Christmas) songs will have their tombstones marked with a red letter, preferably
an X as in Xmas.

Effective immediately all commercial advertising using the word (Christmas) will be forbidden. A good example to follow is that brilliant Tim Horton’s commercial featuring all those dippy people who are so happy that we’re well on the way to eliminating (Christmas.) You know, the one where the bimbo asks her workmates “What did you get for the holidays?”

Finally Christians will be known as Holyans.

The word (Holiday) means (Holy) day.
Shit, I’ll have to do this thing it all over again.
Memo to follow

Well, I am glad they were sensitive enough to still give a nod to my pagan Nordic heritage. From wiki:

Odin was sometimes recorded, at the native Germanic holiday of Yule, as leading a great hunting party through the sky. Two books ... describe Odin as riding an eight-legged horse named Sleipnir that could leap great distances, giving rise to comparisons to Santa Claus's reindeer.[14]

(Maybe they got that reindeer from around Fort McMurray)

A while back, I heard an ad on the radio for Home Depot, something like "Your holiday light headquarters". A menorah is part of Hannukah and, while I've never looked for one, I'm pretty sure that HD doesn't carry them. That leaves Christmas as the only celebration at this time of year that uses lights so why not call them Christmas lights?

Nice to see Brampton subbing in Hanukkah (aka the Jewish Festival of Lights) for Christmas once in a while.

Lickmuffin--should be called suckmuffin--you are a sad case.

The solstice was observed and commemorated long before any of the modern religions hitched their wagons to the seasonal festivities. And one can verify mathematically that, yes, a solstice actually occurred 2000 years ago.

So. What's. The. Problem?

Lickmuffin you insult Christians by stating ...
"You know, something that actually happened 2000 years ago." implying that the birth of Christ did not happen.

Its ok... I forgive you ;)
Happy Solstice muffin!

My Aunt passed away at the beginning of Advent, but not before she managed one last barrage of parcels and presents from Germany. Our "Titanium Tante" is no more. (Titanium due to her two knee joint replacements) We are one Christmas soldier less in the Knecht Rupprecht Division, but not in spirit. She has now moved on to the eternal "Three Kings Street".

Well the Three Kings will be coming soon in the New Year, should be quite the show.

Here’s to a prosperous New Year, as the last one has been anything but! Perhaps the Three Kings will be tossing some gold through our windows for the New Year. As long as it doesn’t hit me in the head, it will be gratefully accepted.

To all the gang at SDA, you are not really small dead animals, but you may just have a whole lotta soul!

Wishing you all a Holy Christmas and a Blessed New Year from the Rupprecht’s!

Hans, Corinne, Nicolaas, Anastasia, & Sophia.

Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief

Frankenstein Battalion
2nd Squadron: Ulanen-(Lancers) Regiment Großherzog Friedrich von Baden(Rheinisches) Nr.7(Saarbrucken)
Knecht Rupprecht Division
Hans Corps
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North

Ghost of Ed,

I am appalled, Father Holiday. How dare you be so exclusionary, if the Holiday is secular must the gender not be neutral.

Just kidding of course, to one and all a very MERRY CHRISTMAS.

Tom, James:

"LickMuffin" is a politically correct girly man who is just temporarily visiting us from his regular haunt: the CBC News forum

This afternoon he likely just finished watching the third in the Trilogy of Winter Solstice Animal Porn, was bored, and decided to come annoy us all.

Robert W done wrote:

Trilogy of Winter Solstice Animal Porn

Oh, come on now! You cannot post something like that without a link! You're such a tease! Thtop!

A very Merry Christmas to all, from a non Christian!

I don't think I'm far off. What kind of pathetic & lonely human being would feel the need to rub salt in the wounds of all who cherish Christmas and mourn the erosion of its original meaning.

Oh I know, the same pathetic individuals doing the same in Washington State: http://pelalusa.blogspot.com/2008/12/secular-progressives-attack.html

If Licky-Boy and his ilk were REAL men (and not cowards) then let's see them go to a predominately Muslim country and go around pronouncing similar comments about Muhammad being pure fiction?

Which comes full circle to my original point: They are truly deeply lonely individuals who actually feel pleasure in espousing their hate for Christianity.

On a positive note Canada Post released a suprisingly classy and tasteful nativity stamp:

http://www.shopcanadapost.ca/index.cfm?SKU=113722&app=cart&a=detail

Lickmuffin: You celebrate the winter solstice every year, simply because you can prove it happened 2000 years ago?

You do realize that there will be a winter solstice again this year. And next year. And every year for the rest of your life, and the rest of your children's lives, and the rest of their children's lives, and so on for as many generations as you care to go. And not one of those will have any meaning, the same as the winter solstice 2000 years ago has no meaning.

And they say Christians are the irrational people . . .

Ah yes, Brampton. The future Clichy-sous-Bois of the GTA.

Personally, I celebrate the winter solstice at this time of year.

You know, something that actually happened 2000 years ago.

- lickmuffin

Well, nothing less would be expected from leftard flaunting a brain the size of a microbe.

Kate, I would love it if you would share some pictures of the Christmas celebrations being undertaken by the good Christians (and otherwise) of your wonderful hometown, Delisle, Saskatchewan.

Maybe you can show other Canadians how it's done!!

GOD BLESS!!

They're Christmas lights. They go on Christmas trees... cuz afterall, it's Christmas.

Merry Christmas to all the SDA faithful. I don't agree with much of what you have to say, but I support you're right to say it.

There's fun and laughter in the air
There's Hope for all to see
Let Christmas light your happy heart
Let G E light your tree.

This was an old Xmas jingle from a General Electric TV ad of the mid fifties.
I remember it well and someone GIVE that Adman a Xmas bonus 'cause its still in my head 50 years later.
Western Society was still ramping up to electrification in those days and companies like G E sponsored many early TV shows extolling the virtues of labour saving appliances. And boy were they quality made and lasted to boot( I still have a 40 year old G E toaster...excellent chrome body...solid bakelite handles etc...weighs about 5 pounds...lots of windings on the elements and still makes a mean piece of toast) Try to get that today!
The fact that we could say "Merry Christmas" back then,without the fear of offending any sensitive ears was proof enough that we were as a society;comfortable within our own definition of ourselves.
I still say Merry Christmas and my attitude is that of to bad to be those that are offended.

Why do people even bother? Just ask everyone to come to work on December 25th. Just because it's winter, doesn't mean there should be a day off.
See how well that goes down.

Why is there such anger because lickmuffin referred to the winter solstice - an annual event that has always been associated, in almost all cultures, with birth and rebirth, because the 'darkness' lessens and the light (and life)emerges.

I'm an atheist; I certainly don't agree with any idea about god, the birth of jesus and so on. That's me and my opinion - hardly grounds for condemnation. Do I correlate this Christian belief with even more ancient beliefs about solstice rebirth? Yes, most certainly.

I analyze the Christian religion as vital and novel in its emergence and development as a moral and social value system. It was the first belief system that was non-tribal, that instead insisted that all people were humans, were 'neighbours', were to be loved and accepted rather than killed as in the normal tribal view which sees all Others as non-human. I put this down to the expanding permanent settlements of this early historic period - that required people to get along with other groups.

It was, as a belief system that enabled collaboration and peace, also one that focused on the individual's choice. You weren't born into this religion by hereditary links, as in the Judaic or Islamic or tribal religions. You had to be baptised, confirmed, and you could join in this religion, as a conscious decision. That's a first - that focus on the individual intention to join in with a religion that stressed humanity.

So, I think it's an important, THE important, religious base of the West - because of that focus on reason, choice, individuality (see Pope Benedict's arguments).

But, I'm still an atheist - and I go to the Santa Claus parade in Toronto, which is called just that, and wish people Merry Christmas because that's the culture of this solstice and this environment...but not because I have any belief, not for a second, in God/Jesus. So? Is that worthy of condemnation because I don't believe in god?

ET,

It's the intention. He/she/it meant it as an insult.

Better change the days of the week.
The Seven Day Week
The Naming of the Days
Sunday -- Sun's day
Monday -- Moon's day
Tuesday -- Tiu's day
Wednesday -- Woden's day
Thursday -- Thor's day
Friday -- Freya's day
Saturday -- Saturn's day

Happy Ramadan? Isn't that like saying 'Happy Lent'? It doesn't seem appropriate. Maybe 'Happy Eid el Fitr'? That's more like saying Happy Easter.

I call these folks neodisestablishmentarians and folks like Katie antineodisestablishmentarians, not sure it will catch on, but it should, because the neo disestablishmentarians are hard at work, and they need a name. Of course it would be better if it were easier to type, but you can blame the Victorians, I believe, for that.

Q: Where is the border between Pakistan and India

A: Brampton

ET, I was raised as a Roman Catholic but am now an Agnostic. On a separate thread you & I could debate my belief that being an Atheist is not a whole lot different than being a Fundamentalist ___________.

The reason I take offense to the likes of Licky Boy is because such comments are now par for the course of the Radical Left. They know there is something wrong about insulting Blacks. They know there is something wrong about insulting Jews. And they know something is wrong with insulting Muslims.

But yet they think it is perfectly acceptable to belittle, trash, and insult Christianity and all Christians.

The behaviour toward Sarah Palin was the most blatant example of this. Bill Mar is the poster boy for such dreadful behaviour.

So though I don't consider myself to be a Christian any longer, that's why I won't tolerate such despicable behaviour.

White Lights in Browntown. Not really surprised since they don't really have any white people left in Brampton. Mostly South Asians.

surly at December 16, 2008 4:26 PM

By the way, isn't celebrating New Year's Eve on December 31st a slap in the face to the Chinese community?

And don't forget the Iranians. They will celebrate it on March 20th, 2009. Hey, it's a Zoroastrian holiday and the muslims really hate the fact that they haven't been able to beat this infidel holiday out of the Persians.

Apart fromt the fact that the Iranian state is in he hands of islamo-fascists, Iranians are good people. They must be encouraged and supported toward freedom.

Bah, Humbug!

In Winnipeg a few years back, at the height of the PC regarding Christmas,,,we had a "MULTICULTURAL TREE" at the provincial legislature..wtf is that? similiar to a Multicultural Fridge, or Multicultural Garden Hose? retards....public outcry even pushed the premier to declare..quote..if it walks like a duck.....and we were back to a christmas tree

BTW- humbug not aimed at the Zoroastrians. They have the coolest religion name, plus that guy Zarathustra...

Well I don't know about anyone else but I greet people I know with the greeting I receive from my Muslim friends, Buddhist friends, Hindu friends and agnostic friends. They usually wish me a Merry Christmas so I reply, "Merry Christmas"!

I just heard a promo that tomorrow afternoon on AM 770 in Calgary, they'll be featuring a discussion on the "organized attack to destroy Christmas" and how, if successful, the same folks will then go after religious holidays of all other religions.

Further to what I said to ET, Secularism/Atheism has become the de facto religion of the Radical Left. It IS a belief system in that it preaches that no religious belief systems are valid. ET might not act this way but many do.

I reject the notion that Canada does not have Christian roots. I reject the notion that a Christian should feel guilty about celebrating their major winter holiday.

Why is it that Christmas has been okay for hundreds of years, now suddenly over the last 25 or so it's questionable about whether it should be allowed to continue as a public holiday? Some say this is because of the multi-cultural makeup of modern Canada. Really?! I've never once had a Jewish or Muslim or Buddhist friend every hint to me that they had a problem with Christmas.

The fact is that the ONLY ones complaining about Christmas are the Politically Correct loudmouths of the Radical Left. What gives them the right to force us all to change our ways and our culture to THEIR narrow world view?

We put up the Christmas lights, festooned the house full of Christmas decorations, a tree, and a life-size Santa. My neighbors are Chinese. They put up Christmas lights. Yes...that's what THEY call them. A few doors down is an Egyptian Muslim. I wish him Happy Ramadan and he wishes me a Merry Christmas. That's the way people get along in a neighborhood. If the securalists would call themselves something, we'd wish them that, but what is it? Winter Lights? Festivus? Kwanzaa? (Look up the origin of that "tradition" started by a US criminal).

But for God's sake, it's Christmas! It's as good as Ramadan, Hanukkah, Festivus or Winter Lights. But we got there first in Canada. If you want to popularize your holiday season, then do so, BUT LAY OFF MY CHRISTMAS!

I sent this 'Letter to the Editor' a few days ago.
--------------------------------------------------
Who are these people that have a problem with the use of the word Christmas?

I have never met one, have you?

Other religious observances are recognized with no problems.

Many retailers now use innocuous wording like 'holiday trees' etc.

These retailers don't seem to understand, that in their attempts to placate these unseen intolerant people,

they are actually offending millions.

These retailers are content to reap the bounties of the Christmas giving spirit, yet specifically downgrade any reference to the special religious day that it is.

It's this specific action against a Christian observance, not shown to other religions, that is galling and

unjustifiable.

Where are these people that are offended by one of Christianity’s holiest days, when someone is needed to work on the 25th?

Mothers Day and Fathers Day will soon have to be changed to 'Significant Other Day', so as not to offend.

All shoppers should leave any store or web-site that has replaced Christmas wording with politically correct lingo.

Let these stores live on their sales to the intolerant souls, that seem to require gifts, for a special day that offends them.

Brampton should be deeply ashamed.

Brampton should be deeply ashamed.

Lefties have no shame.That would imply they have empathy,which along with tolerance,justice and equality,are NOT part of the leftard make up.You gotta have at least two brain cells to rub together to even begin to start on the road to any of the above.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all at SDA.

Note the web site on the add - www.brampton.ca. You can send an e-mail to the city there. Feel free to voice your displeasure. Personally, I'm insulted that they would rename my holiday...

You wouldn't believe the property tax in Brampton (all Ontario for that matter) 1.24% on assessed value.
We miss Mike Harris!

My question is, how come the City of Brampton has so much spare cash they can blow it on lame bus ads?

Somebody needs fired.

what would Obama do?

will the yanks celebrate august 4th as change day?

and the 5th as spare change day.

An ism for everyone.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/

I'm trying to picture a public bus in any Muslim country with the message "Celebrate Christmas."

'Having a hard time doing it.

Hey Brampton, Merry Christmas!

This site would be-

Seventh-day Adventists or SDA congregations.

"I'm trying to picture a public bus in any Muslim country with the message "Celebrate Christmas."

'Having a hard time doing it.

Posted by: batb at December 16, 2008 9:46 PM "

Oh come on,batb.That's easy.Just remember all those flaming cars around Pareee.

December is Hatred and Intolerance month!

*
"winter lights"... that's what you use
on the "festival sapling"... right?

*

But, I'm ... an atheist ... So? Is that worthy of condemnation because I don't believe in god?

Yes. Yes, it is.

You see, as an atheist, you have no morals or decency that I understand.

Suggesting that you do not believe in God is an insult to people who do. It's not, really, of course -- and if it were, then the reverse would also be true -- but as a Christian I'm not required to think about those things.

As a Christian, I am taught to love all people, even scum-sucking, immoral, filthy, hell-bound, child-raping atheists like you.

You should pray to our Merciful Father not to condemn you to an eternity of excruciating torture in Hell, in His love.

The Brampton Board of Trade hosts a Santa Claus Parade in late November, sponsored by the Rotary Club and the Downtown Business Association. It is the largest nighttime parade in Canada and usually attracts between 150,000 and 200,000 people each year. People line the streets 5-8 deep for the full length of the parade. Everyone sings Christmas carols and wishes Merry Christmas. The politically correct schmozzle shown is the work of the City politicians who (as usual) screw up and give the community a bad name. It's really sad.

Judging by the ads in MSM and print throughout Canada it’s quite obvious that “whites” are a minority or soon becoming one. Shouldn’t white people be considering legislating some sort of affirmative action or entitlement programs now to prepare for the future? Why get caught out and miss the gravy train?

to: Surly,
re: New Year

You'd be surprised...Chinese New Year is now known in Toronto's politically correct circles (Now Magazine etc.) as the "Asian Communities' Lunar New Year". I wish I were joking.

Well well, well

Racism, homophobia, xenophobia and just plain flat-out hate explodes like pus from lanced boils throughout the SDA comment thread.

SDA folks evidently feel that their Christianity is best served by acting in the exact opposite manner to which Christ directed...

They don't understand that Christ isn't served in any other way than by trying to live up to His precepts.

I mean: do you really think that the One who spoke against making a big show of praying in public would be perturbed by words on the back of a bus?

And again for all you racists and homophobes: Nuh-uh. Jesus doesn't approve.

A bit of going over the top here.
It isn't the immigrants from other countries, nor those of other religious faiths who are battling the tradition of celebrating Christmas: It's people who are anti-God, and that is the Jehovah God of the Jews and Christians. That is their enemy. Ordinary run-of-the-mill athiests and agnostics most likely have a Christmas tree for their children and exchange gifts.
Christians adopted the tree symbol, so why can't others share it without having to accept Christ? That is a personal decision for each of us to make. We can share our faith and stand on guard against those who would remove it from the public square.
ET: For someone as intelligent as you obviously are, you might enjoy reading Lee Strobel's
books.
On the Tree channel right now, I'm looking at the Christmas tree in Calgary as I listen to non-stop Christmas carols and songs.
Merry Christmas to all.

OMG!! Celebrating with lights!! That so totally goes against the teachings of MY prophets and what they have been preaching at my church. I am completely offended and disgusted. You can bet I will be filing a complaint with the HRC protesting what is clearly an affront to my religion as preached by Al Gore and David Suzuki.

A few weeks ago, Holt Renfrew held their "Annual Holiday Window Unveilling." Somehow I don't think it was always called that.

To HOLT RENFREW:
THAT was disgusting.

Re Xmas - not so offensive, "X" being Greek "chi", the first letter in "Christ"; or perhaps the "chi-rho" symbol, the first two letters in "Christ".

I don't understand what the problem is with "Claus", "Klaus", "Nicholas", all perfectly good given names.

Write to the Mayor of Brampton at: mayor@brampton.ca

Dear Mayor Fennell
Allow me to take a moment to wish you and your loved ones a very Merry Christmas. Oh, I'm sorry. Apparently the City of Bramptom doesn't officially recognize the tradition of Christmas, despite it having been a part of Canada's history and heritage for 141 years. "Winter Lights", it sounds like a brand of cigarettes, but that too would be politically incorrect and we can't have that now, can we?

Shame on you, your city and the many other politically incorrect officials who appear to believe they are 'au currant' and oh so progressive. Yes indeed, that's real leadership - abandoning the important aspects of your own culture in order to appear supplicant to all other cultures. And the amazing thing is that few if any of those other cultures exhibit any of the intolerance that seems so fundamental to today's civic 'leaders'.

I'll be sure to recommend to my friends that they purchase their Christmas gifts in a jurisdiction other than Brampton because no one I know will be out looking for 'holiday gifts' for their loved ones. And I trust that you and your staff will be working on Dec. 25th as it is apparently a wholly meaningless day that doesn't actually merit being paid to you as a special occasion.

Secular fundamentalism. It's a cancer in Canadian society and it needs to change.

DING DONG/
Oh honey look it's the Hendersons come to mock, insult , belittle, abuse and pile on a groaning Christian faithed person at Christmas.

Well, God Bless
Merry Christmas
Good Will Towards Men

It was "Bright Lights" in Vancouver. Ironically there was a creche amid the spectacle in Stanley Park, but the lights were off. It was like a living parable where the light was darkness and the darkness light.

It will be business as usually, right up to the end.

"Sanctimonious Religious Person" (sic) - thou art a silly twit.

And, ET - condemnation for participating in cultural activities? Not the right question – there is condemnation (aka, moral culpability)for rejecting Jesus as irrelevant. But let us keep it simple, if only for those who mock...It’s d*mn stupid. It’s like going “yummy bathwater...but please throw away the baby!” Culture is not a multi-culti dinner menu. The religio/philosophic underpinnings of a culture grant it legitimacy and life. If the former are antithetical, then it must logically follow that the latter is also.

Consistency, my friend, consistency!

77 percent of Americans say they say "Merry Christmas," according to a FOX News poll released Tuesday.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,467571,00.html

real says "Jesus doesn't approve."

And your grounds for such assertion? Are you claiming to be one of his friends?

Onward christian solders!

A relative of mine with 3 young kids and living in Brampton, fled to Peterborough. I asked them why and they said they didn't want to expose their children to the racially divided gangs in all the schools in Brampton. They couldn't even find enough anglo-saxons to form gangs for their protection. Is that true?

So is this to say that Brampton does not do any decorations or lights before December 21st as that is the start of Winter (Solstice)? Christmas season is not defined, but Winter...that has a defined start and end, and so this light festival should go until March 20th. I think the people of Brampton should complain if those lights are turned off before then!!

Tenebris

I don't know whether I'd claim to be His "friend", but I try to follow his teachings, and in the Good Samaritan and other parables, it seems clear he's asking us to regard all people as our neighbours and to extend love to those who are considered "other" in our society - particularly those who are most different from us, the weaker ones, the marginalized. "for what you have done for the least of these, you have done for me." Heck, he even tells us to love our enemies.

That rules out racism, it seems to me, as well as homophobia, both of which appear all too often here at SDA. Seems like something to keep in mind when people are railing on so hatefully "in the name of Christianity".

I mean, you can't possibly believe that Jesus somehow does approve of racism and homophobia, can you?

It is one thing to "extend love to those considered other", it is another thing to abandon your cultural beliefs and traditions as part of that effort.

real, you really are an idiot.

Tim in Vermont: "It is one thing to 'extend love to those considered other', it is another thing to abandon your cultural beliefs and traditions as part of that effort."

Well-said.

And, gellen, you're correct. The secular fundamentalism we've become captive to in Canada is utterly the creation of the fundamentalist, atheistic humanists in our midst--who, BTW, stuff their own pockets administering "multicultural" government programs.

People of faiths other than Judeo-Christianity tend to be very respectful of others' faith and, in fact, often don't understand Christians' reticence to share their faith.

On the other hand, atheistic secularists are deeply threatened by Christianity and have used "multiculturalism" as a "beard" to hide behind. Their "reasoning" is that white Christians and our culture are somehow "offensive" to the newly arriving non-Christian immigrants to our country.

Aside from the irony that it's often Christians in Christian churches which provide free-of-charge charity to immigrants, this "fear" of Christians is ridiculous and is a construct to benefit the political agenda--and fill the bank accounts--of Godless socialists.

"... you can't possibly believe that Jesus somehow does approve of racism and homophobia, can you?"

That depends on your definition of "homophobia," real. For example, if opposing "gay marriage" implies one is "homophobic," then yes, Jesus would approve of being "homophobic." In fact, Jesus himself would be "homophobic" because Christian marriage is between a man and a woman and God, period.

When speaking of Godly approval or disapproval, it is most beneficial to consider what is God's design and then address whether or not certain actions or proclivities fall outside of His nature.

Taking marriage as our example, the marriage covenant between God, a man and a woman is the model set forth for the furtherance of the human race, the environment for child bearing and rearing, and the only place where sexual relations are condoned by God.

Fornication speaks to sexual relations outside of marriage, something that is explicitly condemned in Scripture because it falls outside of God's model of sex within marriage. An important note here is that fornication applies to all sexual acts outside of marriage and therefore applies to heterosexuals and homosexuals alike. Ergo, homosexuals can claim no extra-malicious intent on God's part; He condemns all sex outside of marriage as sin, and still provides a way of atonement and forgiveness and restoration in the event someone does err.

It's God's standard that informs the approval or disapproval of acts, not the other way around. His standard is sex within marriage, period. Humanity has been rebelling against that one for all time.

The concept that God is afraid of anything posse of created humans with a grievance is preposterous and illogical, if you consider God to truly be a god, let alone The One and Only True God.

Open letter to Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Chinese, the HRC and atheists.

MERRY CHRISTMAS and HAPPY NEW YEAR!

real - what mark said...

And my own 2 pennies: "I don't know whether I'd claim to be His "friend", but I try to follow his teachings,..."

Very good; and Jesus said "You are my friend if you do what I say."

Two general comments, not meant as thrown stones:

Do try not to be more righteous than God - that way lies phariseeism. And don't get so fixated on your neighbour that he becomes your God.

A blessed Christmas to all!

Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, and the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. Jeremiah 10: 2-4.

Christmas as a Christian holiday originated with the celebration of the winter solstice and only after Constantine merged it into a Christian holiday did it become what it is today. Very interesting reading in the book The Two Babylons by the late Rev. Alexander Hislop.

Dear Mark Peters:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from you, and I will try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Americans. Can you
clarify? Why can't I own Americans?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Hey, guys? Don't feed the trolls, eh? Real/new/haye/mos/etc. is a troll. I'm one of the worst offenders usually, but this is getting a bit rich even for my blood.

Bottom line, ET is A) a good person and B) can't prove there is not a God. OTOH, I can't prove there -is- a God. Nor can any of the rest of y'all, and you know it. Proof is denied us, as of right now.

Absent actual proof either way, I'm not prepared to jam my preference in the matter down anybody else's throat. I prefer to lead by example. It works better than fire and the sword anyway, just see how the hard-@ss fanatics are making out changing us all over to Islam. Not so well, right? Sooner fight than switch, wouldn't you?

Therefore we all cut each other a bit of slack, show up with some manners, and ignore the hateful machinations of the trolls. Agents of discord and strife, the lot of them.

btw, Herb? You're a troll.

Hey, if people can quote scripture from the good book to justify their opinions, why can i not show how hypocritical that is? Quoting scripture to justify homophobia is hypocritical.

That's not a troll, that's truth. Everything in my post above comes from the good book. Refute it instead of the ad-hom.

It is time to celebrate Christ's birth, buy Christmas presents, and go into debt. Hey, it is a tradition we spend paying off during the first of every year. And how else are we going to get all our linens on sale in January?

Winter lights? Does this mean my Christmas lights are passe, and now I have to buy winter lights to be 'with it'? Who says, "Winter Lights" anyhow?

as a non practicing christian, can anyone tell me what buying cheap chinese made crap for our kids has anything to do with - the birth of Christ? Yes I like traditions, and I'll say Merry Christmas, but if someone doesn't repy the same, especially some meaningless greeting from some employee or advertisement from some company that's just trying to sell their crap to me - why would anyone care - it has no connection the chritian holy day at all - none

some of you need to get back to true meaning of christmas itself before you try to save it.

see linus's speech from Charlie Brown's Christmas - shown by all those evil mainstream secular tv stations

Mark Peters

You seem to be quite sure of what God intends marriage to be, and I can only presume your knowledge of the same comes from the Bible.

The problem is, the Bible says many things regarding marriage, many of which, if we heeded each and every one, would contradict others.

For instance, the Bible defines marriage as berween a man and one or more women (Gen 29:17-28, Sam 3:2-5,).

As well, it specifies that marriage shall not impede a man from taking concubines in addition to his wife or wives (II Sam 5:13, I Kings 11:3. II Chron 11:21). this seems to contradict your 'fornication outside of marriage stance.

It also points out that if a woman is found not be to a virgin when she's married she should be executed (Deut 22:13-21).

As you can see, there might be a few problems if we observed every thing the Bible says about marriage. Your insistence then, that the Bible has one basic definition of marriage is unfounded.

In terms of Christ we can see that the opposition to gay marriage as pushed forth as a major issue by his followers is false, given that Christ mentioned homosexuality not once - obviously He didn't feel it was a big issue. As well, we can see there isn't the single definition of marriage in the bible as you claim.

Remember, Christ said he was not here to deny the old law, but to fulfill it. That is, He is the fulfillment of the promise made by the Old Testament - where the Old Testament proscribed laws relating to God, Christ was, and is, in fact, God. And His new law of love and acceptance overrides everything else.

Those who claim to justify their homophobia in the name of Christ are like the racists who used the story of Ham in the Old Testament to justify their racism - or like Hitler when he tried to justify his horrendous acts by using the Bible.

There will always be bigots who try to use the name of Christ to justify their prejudices. In their obsession with doing so, they offend on two levels: 1) using Christ as cover for hatred - the exact opposite of Christ's message, and 2)by focussing on this to the exclusion of all else they take give short schrift to the real matters Christ tells us to focus on, and present a false image of Christianity (literally that of the Antichrist) to the world.

Tim in Vermont

Wherever did you get the idea from my post that I think people should abandon their cultural beliefs?

I was commenting on the racism and homophobia exhibited by your fellow posters here. Do you have a problem with that?

My other point was that Christ is worshipped by living by his message. Christ is not worshiped by getting tied up in knots about the side of a bus. You're mistaking religious belief with cultural traditions. You and everyone else here is free to observe whatever traditions you choose - so why so angry? And the hatred expressed here is the exact opposite of Christ's message, make no mistake about it.

Anyway, Tim, how come you can't make your point without engaging in childish insults? (Again, how "Christian"). Do you think it achieves anything, aside from making you feel like a 'big man'? I'm afraid your ad hominem says more about your character - and the emptiness of your argument - than it does about me.

Hey Tenebris

Thanks for the scriptural clarification. So yes, I do hope that I may be called a friend of Jesus.

I don't think I feel myself to be more righteous than God. I merely alluded to precepts set out by God through his son which seem to contradict the racism and homophobia I saw in the comments here. I trust you can understand that a person doesn't have to consider themselves more righteous than God to point out the objective fact that several statements here are racist and homophobic.

I'll leave aside your bizarre statement about 'becoming so fixated on your neighbour that he becomes God" because I can't see that it makes any sense at all, frankly. Thanks for the spiritual pointers, though, and I trust you'll be quick to apply them to yourself the next time a fit of righteousness overtakes you - as it has obviously done here.

real: "Christ is not worshiped by getting tied up in knots about the side of a bus."

Come on, real. It's not the side of the bus, it's the overall message ON the side of the bus. A "Festival of Lights" is not what Canada and Canadians are celebrating at this time of year.

It's CHRISTMAS, and if the people who came to Canada don't like it, then that's too bad. They don't need to hijack Christmas by calling the celebration at this time of year something else.

I suspect it's not the people who came to Canada who are at the bottom of this but the diversity, tolerant aka bigoted, anti-Christian, socialist brigade who are making BIG salaries at Brampton City Hall.

Posted by: No Guff at December 17, 2008 12:36 AM:

WELL said!

Take your scarcer and scarcer, disposable income elsewhere!!

I'm looking for someone to THANK ME when I make a purchase.....

"Ahh well, we still give big A$$ Christmas Tree to the good folks of Boston each year."

I remember why this happens.

Sorry batb

We don't live in a theocracy. There's a separation of church and state. "Canadians" aren't only Christians - but of amny faiths, and of no faith at all.

That's the reality. That's the law. If you'd rather live in your delusions than in reality, fine. But don't gripe and insult others because they don't want to live in your delusion.

I've been reading a book that takes place in the 1880's where a clerk working for the City describes himself as "the lowest of the low" in terms of jobs.

I think this perspective has been carried forward to modern days.

F*** you City of Brampton.

What lefty pinheads do not seem to be able to mentally calculate, is that whether you are Christian or not if you do not defend the status quo of our culture it will be lost forever in time.

What that means for those who really can’t comprehend the problem is that you will eventually have burka’s and Sharia law to look forward to. If you think that’s insane, that is because the lefty mind cannot see the facts and reality before their very eyes. The fall of socialist liberal Europe is the canary in the coal mine. Holland the most liberal of all will within a decade or so cease to exist as a “theocracy” as will other European countries shortly thereafter.

Whether you believe in the “spirit of Christmas” or not it is well advised to support it in our society because that spirit is what has protected the likes of the lefty loons from themselves. Unfortunately whether they cut their own throats or not, they insist on bringing everyone else down their delusional path to suicide.

The argument for Christmas is not only a religious one but a cultural one. Meaning self preservation.

Obviously meant - exist as a “theocracy” above. Typing to fast and not giving this dead thead much attention.

I sent an e-mail to Mayor Fennell of Brampton regarding what appeared to be the 'secularization' of Christmas by the City.

She kindly took the time to write the following to me and I in turn, apologize to her and the residents of Brampton who will be recognizing and enjoying the spirit of the Christmas season.
-----------------------------------

In Brampton, I take pride as a Mayor who has insisted on the words MERRY CHRISTMAS... and say so at every single public event.
Further, we celebrate the beginning of the Christmas season with the lighting of the CHRISTMAS TREE outside City Hall.
Further, we abandon Ontario rules and continue to open every council meeting with the Lords Prayer.
Further, the Corporate CHRISTMAS CARDS say MERRY CHRISTMAS.
Further, my remarks always include the words.... 'we say Merry Christmas in Brampton'..... and 'Happy Holidays' is only to be used for people going on vacation in July'.... those are my well known quotes....

Further... Winter Lights is a registered program, not a Brampton 'expression'. It is part of the Communities in Bloom program where this City is judged in the summertime and has won National and International Acclaim.. as Canada's Flower City and now, in 2008, International Flower City.
Winter Lights is the 'WINTER competition'.... across North America..... Brampton is being evaluated in the Winterlights program..which is a Winter Program for communities, to assist in showcasing the many activities available for families and citizens in each community over the Winter.
The Judges were here last week, one night in Gage Park and Downtown Brampton, met with hundreds of Brampton citizens.. and one night in Chinguacousy Park.. met with dozens of community groups.... You can 'google 'winter lights program' on the internet if you're interested and want to 'check out the 'Mayors response'...

Get involved, Mr. O'Donnell and you'd know more about what is going on in your City. The 'Winter Lights' Logo'ed bus was part of our entry, and it has been used in the Salvation Army 'Stuff the bus' campaign... where children bring food and 'stuff the bus' at our Christmas events......

In Brampton, we boldly and proudly proclaim CHRISTMAS..... factually, over 60 percent of Brampton's population is Roman Catholic.... one of the highest proportionate population in Canada...

Yes, we are a diverse community.. where we respect traditions.... Christian traditions and other traditions... and no one is pushing aside Christmas in Brampton.. or the Lords Prayer... or any other Christian celebration or tradition. ... not as long as I am Mayor... I can tell you that!

Your email is so misguided.... of course, now that you know.. the Christian tradition.. is an apology.

Susan Fennell
Mayor