Wow! Just wow, he really tells it like it is. thank you for bringing this guy to our attention.

Faster please.

The sooner we rid ourselves of this (no respect for anyone but themselves) province the better.
Let them pay for their own "partying" instead of making us pay for it, while they spit in our faces by electing the bloc as a national choice and openly putting ROC's down in their media non stop.
AND they LOVE doing this to the rest of Canada, millions of them vote this way to screw the ROC.
Their PUR LIN don't stink 'ya know.
But I know that pure wool becomes heavy and stinky when wet...irritates the skin too.

Yes, that's a common Quebec reaction - that stunned belief that Canadians don't feel any sense of allegiance, duty, support for Quebec just because it is 'Quebec'.

They will threaten to leave at the drop of a hat, but when their words are accepted, their hat handed over and the door pointed out - they are shocked, stunned, appalled ..at our heartless rejection of them.

We have a perfect example in the views of a commentor who visits us from time to time as '[atheist] quebeois separatist'.

The fact that they've been rejecting us as people, as co-citizens, as participants in a country - that never occurs to them. After all, they are quite willing to take all our money; in their view, it's theirs anyway.

As for the 'anglo-jew' identification, that's Quebec as well, for its nationalist identity doesn't extend to Others, who are, always, defined as 'Other'. All you have to do is check out immigration rates in Quebec, which, unlike the other provinces, controls its own immigration. You'll see that 'visible minorities' are primarily only in Montreal not in the rest of Quebec. And immigration rates are far lower than anywhere else in Canada.

"...coalition between Socialists and Separatists will not last beyond a month or so, and will guarantee two unexpected and unintended consequences..."

Good article but would anyone believe that PMSH and staff, weren't aware of the prospect of these consequences? Anyone who believes that the outrage against the coalition expressed by the otherwise apathetic public, including Liberal supporters, was unexpected and unintended, is grossly underestimating the PMO. The intention was and is to "out" the Liberals who are interested only in power for power's sake. They are the ones who didn't expect the consequences.

The next step will be when parliament resumes. Budget concessions you say? I think not..

I like this guy, Galganov.

The coalition is the last straw, and it's astounding how the Libs and their MSM friends fail to recognize it. And when Quebec is gone they'll blame Harper. Idiots.

Galganov is one of the good guys. He use to be in the news a fair amount about 10 years ago but then dropped out of sight. It's good to see he still tells it like it is. I added his blog to my favourite's list.

One of my uncles (who used to live in Quebec, but has since moved because of the crushing household taxes he experienced there) once asked me what "Albertans" thought of Quebec.  I think my reply kind of stunned him:

"Normally, 'we' don't think about Quebec at all.  Why should we?  The nearest point of Quebec that has any French-speaking population is almost 3,000 kilometres as the crow flies from either Calgary or Edmonton (ferinstance); it's a lot like asking a Parisian what he/she thinks of people who live in Moscow.  As for Quebec's aspirations to be "independent," most of the Albertans I know would probably say Bonne journée, et bonne chance.

We get the desire to be maîtres chez nous, but we don't get your reluctance to actually do it.  Do it!

And there you'll have it — no more of the cruel shackles of endless piles of transfer cash sent into your province, no more head offices, no more of those filthy Canadian lucre banknotes staining your poor pur laine hands.  Freedom!

As a self-confessed reluctant Western separatist, I'm well aware of the huge challenges leaving Confederation would entail, but it seems my many counterparts in Quebec haven't a clue.

Garth

Layton is still pushing for the coalition. Take a look at the following link. I says send his message right back to his own site with a few thoughtful insults in the comment section he's provided.

http://www.ndp.ca/ecards/all-i-want-for-christmas

I always find it amusing when a separatist come on this board and tries to shock us with threats to leave. Then finds out we don't give a sh*t if they do or not. Let me amend that we would rather they just left so we can get on with our lives.
Get this straight Quebec we don't care if you leave we are tired of paying your way, we are tired of your grievances.
So good bye and good luck write if you get work.

Galganoff summed up exactly what the contributors here have been saying for two weeks, all the way down to wondering where the money's going to come from now that oil is at $42 a barrel.

Despite the trashing he's taking in the MSM, PM Harper should be praised for bringing this issue to a head.

For too long, it was impolite to ask Quebec to actually carry out their threat.

Now, the demographics have shifted enough with increased population growth in Ontario and the West that a majority can be formed without the consent of Quebec's voters.

At 14 seats short of a majority, that can easily be made up at all points west of the Quebec/Ontario border.

It's time for Canada to move on and become the strong country it should be.

It's going to be interesting to see if most of the Quebec population will agree and toss their seperatist politicians overboard.

The Quebeckers I know are every bit proud of their Canadian history as anybody in any other region. They have to put food on the table, put a roof over their heads and clothe their family.

Really, they are not much different than us with the exception being some of them believe they can still hold a knife to the throat of Canada.

Now, the blade is turning the other way and they are in denial about it.

And immigration rates are far lower than anywhere else in Canada.

Posted by: ET at December 14, 2008 11:21 AM

Not so dumb after all.

garth - yes, I know about those high taxes in Quebec. Both their household taxes and provincial taxes are unreal. And their services for those taxes are 'the pits'.

Where does their money go? I suspect to the bloated bureaucracy for it certainly doesn't go on roads, water treatment plants, security etc.

The roads are terrible; you can be asleep and always know when you enter Quebec whether from Ontario or the US. Water treatment - boil water advisories are common in the non-Montreal area. Security - heh - you accept robberies from your house when you go on vacation, accept your car being broken into when it's parked outside your apartment..and so on.

Plus, because of those high taxes, there's a huge black market economy.

The strange thing is, that Quebecers are always so stunned when you accept their firm desire to leave. You are, instead, supposed to beg them to stay and they are quite affronted and insulted when you tell them that 'if this is your choice, then, by all means go ahead with it'.

They are also quite stunned when you tell them how disinterested in Quebec the rest of Canada is, except for its rejection of Quebec's endless demands for special treatment. They see themselves as 'unique' - and after all, a non-English speaking enclave in the midst of an English-speaking geography IS unique - but this in itself doesn't merit any special treatment.

And they adamantly insist that 'Canadians' have 'no culture -I think this is a result of their defining 'culture' as 'different from' the behaviour/language of others. Since we Canadians speak the same language all across the country and as Americans..then, according to this Quebecois perpsective, which says that 'culture' means 'different from' - then, we have no culture. Ah well.

Yes I like this Galganov guy as well, says everything I feel about Quebec and it's being part of Canada, like bugger off. My Canada doesn't extend much past the Sask Man border and hasn’t for some time now. Nobody has been happier than me to see oil prices tumble, Alberta reality check, once again, not as much of our money for the ROC, read the east, to piss away on their social programs, a wake up call to both governments and when the money slows to a trickle, the supreme teat suckers, quebec.

I have been doing some noodling with demographic and population trends lately:

In about 12 to 16 years new HOC seat allocations will make it relatively easy to form a majority government WITHOUT any seats from Quebec.

and

In about 20 to 25 years it is quite possible that more than 50% of the population will reside outsdies of Quebec and Ontario.

Why is that important?

Because the constitution can only be changed with the consent of 7 provinces making up 50% of the population. Thus, at that time the other provinces can make changes without the consent of Ont and Que.

The implications of these two possibilities are enormous and the sooner all Canadians get wise to this date with destiny, the sooner Central Canadian arrogance will wane and the sooner the rest of Canada will drive harder bargains and show less tolerance for Central Canadian intransagence on issues like the need for a EEE senate.

gord tulk - exactly right.

This enormous demographic and economic structural change to the West is something that the old regime of Ontario-Quebec simply doesn't get. They're still embedded within the post WWII economic-demographic nature of Canada as primarily in those two provinces - and the rest of Canada is irrelevent. But we've changed.

Ignatieff, as are all Liberals, is locked into that centralist Quebec-Ontario frame. The arrogance of putting a political party from one province, a party out of the electoral reach of over 80% of Canadians, in charge of our government is mind boggling. He signed that coalition document.

Layton's Chistimas wish is insulting to the spirit of Christmas, which is supposed to be about peace and hope - because that Coalition denies the will, the hope, of the electorate. We didn't vote for a coalition. Period.

And - that coalition, again, is focused on an electorate based primarily in Ontario and Quebec. And, puts Quebec alone in the driver's seat with its signed agreement to prevent the coalition from having to be agreed to or rejected by the electorate.

PMSH already offered quebec an olive branch by allowing them to be called a "nation within a nation"hoping quebec would finally get rid of the bloc and start to work with the rest of Canada,but being the spoiled kids that they are this was still not good enough for them.
PMSH knows he no longer needs quebec and will win a majority with out quebec.He will start to take away thier goodies and they will cry harder and threaten more than ever to leave Canada.
This in turn will do them no good for they are not needed any more and the rest of Canada should have a vote asking quebec to leave Canada.
I dont think the vote would be as close as when quebec wanted to leave Canada,I think the rest of Canadians would boot them out alot quicker.
QUEBEC start packing your bags and get out this marriage is over!!!!!
Dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!

The next time Quebec decides to hold a referendum, there should be a similar referendum held in the rest of Confederation - to eject Quebec.

Layton's Christmas wish for the coalition, is code for put me in the cabinet. What a dishonest man he is.

As a former premier of Quebec once called it, "profitable federalism" sums it up quite nicely.

It is all about the money honey, nothing more, nothing less.

If the people of Quebec were serious about separation, it would have happened a long time ago.

It is just one big con game, and the ROC keeps falling for it time after time after time.

Hey! QUEBEC if you need more money just call up your buddy Mo Strong and get it from him he has tons of OUR money.

My Canada includes Quebec (and the other nine provinces and territories). Having said that, catering to separatists must stop.

It amazes me that the MSM pillories Harper for daring to use the word separatist, but seems to accept the legitimacy (by arguing it's possible) for MPs in one province, who are avowed separatists, to hold the balance of power in our parliament.

There is, thankfully, a difference between what the "intelligensia" and the general public think, in and outside Quebec.

The first step in dealing with separatists is to call them what they are. When they try to insert "sovereigntist," call them on it. This idea of sovereignty association is a total pipe dream, where Quebec becomes its own "country" while using another's currency, while maintaining a monopoly on the ROC's domestic dairy market, while continuing to receive transfer payments (apparently "we" owe "them").

Quebecers think separation scares is a no-lose game. They aren't going to separate anyway, so let's wring out some concessions. Nobody call them rednecks, or pipe dreamers, as is the case with western separatism. This is strange, given the four western provinces could easily go it alone, but Quebec would become easily the poorest of Western nations should they separate.

We must find a way to convince Quebecers there is huge risk flirting with separatists, by electing them into our (and their) national parliament.

Unfortunately, Quebecers should know that, given their economic situation; but, our chattering class keeps them insulated from that reality by attacking anyone who points it out.

We must tell Quebecers we want them as partners (not equal with ROC, but one of many), but their insistence on electing separatists makes this impossible. They will always be on the outside looking in with their irresponsible, zenophobic, ethnocentric, and yes, racist leadership.

Quebec, and Central Canada indeed, must wake up to the reality that they don't control the country anymore, they are not the nexus, going forward,of economic power, or even population.

I worry when national politicians like those in the Liberal and NDP parties never consider for a moment what a slap in the face to the west this coaliton nonsense is. Ignatieff's coalition if necessary but not necessarily is a bluff similar to the separation bluff, an attempt to wring concessions, to gain false power without appealing to democracy.

The West can't be expected to put up with this much longer; the coalition, if pulled off, would have driven a permanent wedge between central and western Canada, that would have made NEP alienation look like a love in.

So, my message to Quebecers is, if you don't like being called separatists, then stop sending separatist to the national parliament. Confederation is in for a re-work; they must make a decision, are they in or are they out? No in-between BS anymore.

We must stop voting for politicians of all stripes who subscribe to this nonsense. We must punish those who refer to "
Canadians and Quebecers," as if Quebecers aren't actually Canadians.

As Mr Harper stated, Quebec is a nation (as a people), but within a united Canada. Period.

Interesting that the reporter asked Galganov if Canada would "push Quebec out the door". She probably realizes that Quebec is much too solidly attached to the Canadian teat to go on its own. I hope that all these goings on in Ottawa will result in one of two things: 1. That Quebec will go, or 2. That the West will go.

I've about had it with the Eastern political power machine that is the Liberal Party. If it comes to the West going we have to negotiate that Eastern Canada take Ralphie boy. We don't want that traitor.

Shamrock:

I empathize with your position.

I think in this case more talk like that of Mr. Galganov and none of the nonsense spewed by the likes of the MSM - using the term Sovereignist instead of separatist or as Lorne Gunter pointed out recently - Charest was asked if he was a federalist and he declined to answer the question.

Pussy-footing around only makes it more likely that the break-up will happen. Allowing Quebecers to think that they will still recieve Equalization and that Supply-management will be maintained is being dishonest to the point of being a criminal act.

When - not if - there is another referendum I hope that the CP with a non-quebec PM as leader will be in place rather than a Quebec Liberal so that Quebecers will be given some straight talk as per Mr. Galganov. Because that and only that will quell the flames of separation.

It is no longer up to the ROC to try to get Quebec to stay annymore.Were done with that,we hold the money and power now and if Quebec wants help they had better start pulling the line with the rest of us.Quebec needs to realize that theyhave nothing to offer us and that we have everything that Quebec needs.Does anybody really think that anyother country on this planet is going to come to their rescue after the bull s@#t they have put this country through.
I say stop pandering to that province and give them nothing take away their transfer payment until they give us a formal apology for acting like little chideren.

I sent Chantal a link to Galganov's piece on Dec 10th.

In the past, she has often responded courteously.

But this time;

--------------------------

Chantal, any thoughts on this [Galganov link]

Sorry. No time but tks.

A convenient out ?

For getting work done ? Undoubtedly.

------------------------------

Interesting, as she usually has something intelligent to say about Quebec and it's place in Canada.

Galganov's Dec. 12 editorial is worth reading too - "Threats Mean The Message Is Getting Through".

Boy, there are a lot of hateful people out there!

My Canada includes Quebec and the West. If one has to go, my vote will be, "bye bye Quebec, hello oil producers."

The separatist Quebecers are truly a different breed and alone in the world. Some of the comments above hit the nail on the head by stating that most westerners don’t give Quebec a second thought except in the context of some sort of whiny handout province full of all the socialist evils and problems of the world.

Very few westerners would bat an eye at Quebec separation from Canada, save for the alimony they demand for the divorce, and the aboriginal land claims they believe is theirs by birthright.

A side story is that I have a few friends in France who have also expressed their distaste for the Canadian French. They find them backwards and uncouth and do not feel any historical kinship with them. Alone on a deserted island, surrounded by hostile natives that they rely on for sustenance with no hope or rescue, how sad.

Roy Green is talking about Quebec and the Coalition on his show today. I just sent him this letter:

Roy,

My Canada includes Quebec. It also includes 9 other provinces and 3 Territories.

Why is it that the very public agenda of the Liberals and the NDP separates out Quebec from the rest of us?

Robert W.
Vancouver, BC

The demographic changes in the next couple of decades will certainly put the cat among the pigeons. I hope we're wise enough to believe in "the need for a EEE senate" when more than 50% of the population is in provinces other than Ont and Quebec.

If the equalization trough were to be upended (by amending the constitution without the agreement of Quebec, most likely), Quebec would be unable to afford the socialist government they have now, as Cuba had to become more capitalist when Russia could no longer afford to prop them up to the degree the Soviet Union had. Would Quebec innovate and wake up from the socialist dream? They have the best policies in Canada re two-tier medicine. They could do it . . . but would they? East Germany still lags behind West Germany.

Note that the reporter asked if 'Canada would push Quebec out of the door' - a rather strange question coming from someone who insists on pushing Canada out of the Quebec door.

But as I said, their refrain is that Quebec alone has the right to threaten to separate; we in the ROC have no say in the matter, and if we even whisper that we accept their decision to leave, then, they accuse us of 'not loving' them.

By the way, please, please, don't keep saying that Harper's Motion was in favour of 'Quebec as a nation within a united Canada'. It wasn't.

It was in favour of the 'Quebecois as a nation within a united Canada'. That's TOTALLY different.
This is a 19th c view of 'nation' that refers to the PEOPLE only - and not to a geographic terrain. Please don't confuse the two. Harper's Motion referred only to the Quebecois people not to any territoy that we know on the map as 'Quebec'.

The semantic tricks of declaring that 'separatism' and 'sovereignty' have two different meanings is just that - a semantic trick. It's rubbish.
You cannot have a sovereign nation (and this no longer can refer to only a population) that is not separate from other geographic terrains.

A sovereign nation has a separate authority over its geographic terrain and the population in that area - separate from that of other nations. That's what sovereignty means - authority over a separate territory and population.

After all - what does 'separatism' mean if you have it but don't have sovereign (total) control over your geographic terrain and population? Again - the two words are necessarily linked.

Sovereignty association is a 'blah babble blah word' for limited control over your geography and terrain. If you want to associate with a larger nation, then in return for the goods and services of that nation (money, money..and defense, passports, roads, etc etc)..you must give up a wee bit. Such as taxation, authority and so on. Just as they have now.

My own view is that Quebec is going to have to realize that it's long, long past the era when it could call the shots. Canada is no longer Ontario and Quebec. There's the West. And soon, the North. The era of Top Guns, bribes, extortion, weeping threats to leave..it's over.

Is Quebec ready to mature? I've no idea.

With regard to jobs if Quebec left, the civil service jobs that are held by Francophones exclusively would now be open to Canadians. The funding that we will not be sending to Quebec would allow for these to continue- not be cut back.
There would be job re-allocations, but we will have money left over to pay for training and we would not be spending billions on bilingualism and translation services.

In other words- there IS NO economic DOWNSIDE to Quebec leaving. It's all good. Imagine them having to figure out who's money to use for their new country. I bet they try to switch to Euros as that is their desire to be anyway.

Western Separation is mostly based on the anger and frustration of Ontario pandering to Quebec anyway. That is why we feel so miffed at Ontario- all because of Quebec.
There will be an amazing new vibrant economically sufficient country if Quebec leaves and Ontario gives up some of its'power- because it would have 55% of the population in a Canada without Quebec.
There will definitely need to be a re-working of arrangements for the West to agree to that.

This should mean that Ontario would need to choose to forego some of its reigns on economic and political power.

One thing I could see is us going to a US republican style system whereas the PM is elected, the Senate is EEE (and has the only VETO powers), the the commons is as usual. In this way Ontario cannot run roughshod over everyone by stacking the deck electing a PM and most of the commons seats. Ontario still needs to allow the Maritimes to get on its feet with industry and port facilities. We can mandate the Maritimes being our eastern port of entry and all goods shipped via land from there. This would give the Maritimes a bone and allow them to stand on their own two feet instead of leaching.

Ontario just needs to be brought under control- with limited growth so that the rest of the country can catch up.

ET:

Re: the Quebecois nation

you beat me to it.

That just about says it all doesn't it?

Secondarily I could see us offering up the northern half of Quebec which was given to Quebec after confederation to "manage" for the south shore and the part near Valleyfield in order to maintain a land bridge to the Maritimes. A new National Spike program would need to be undertaken to build a top notch rail and road system to feed inland. Further I suggest that the Maritimes and the South Shore merge into a single province such that they would be better able to manage their own affairs from within. NF is already alone, and could decide to stay or leave as well. Who could blame them if they decided to go?
----------
My Canada definitely does not include being trated as third and fourth class citizens whilst paying all the bills. Therefore Quebec goes or we go. Ontario needs to choose.

Angry! Nice pragmatic comments. Thanks for taking a hard and unemotional look at reality.

Yes, if Quebec wants to leave, then by all means, go. As you point out, the cost benefits to the rest of Canada with Quebec leaving are enormous. Retaining Quebec is a heavy expense to Canada.

I see your point about negotiating with Quebec that they keep the northern lands in return for that southern corridor. Makes sense - except that the Cree in N. Quebec would object; they don't want to be part of Quebec.

With Quebec stripped of its head offices of banks and federal departments, its huge federal subsidies for its industries, its special rights for its industries etc - Quebec would lose a massive proportion of its population who would leave as rapidly as possible. Left with an enormous public debt, no industries, no jobs for its bloated bureaucracy - what a mess. So, unfortunately, Quebec can't leave.

That means, however, that the rest of us ought to simply ignore, more and more and more, the threats of Quebec, their incessant demands for more and more special treatment and so on.

A key problem in our ability to ignore them is that the Charter, Trudeau's Charter, is specifically set up to insert bilingualism into our governance. This is despite the fact that we are not and never will be, bilingual. But, because this document asserts that we are and that we must be - it means that we must hire francophones in the majority in our governance; it means that we waste billions on language training, on hiring people in remove areas of the prairies to speak French to not one single person, and so on.

So, ignoring Quebec - and we must do so - still leaves us with the costs and burden of bilingualism and the bloated bureaucracy that rests on it.

Please! Ontario Conservatives have toiled in the wilderness for decades, same as the West.
I'll repeat-- Onario wants to cede Toronto to Quebec, and then separate with the West.
Our children answer to French political masters here as well. Victims of the same biligual facism as you guys.
51 of the seats that helped us all keep Harper in power, came from Ontario. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

I am American and thus perhaps ignorant of the subtleties of Canadian politics, but I have wondered for years why the rest of Canada doesn't simply call Quebec's bluff and tell the Quebecois simply to get lost and look slippy about it.

Maybe the time has come to force the Separatists to separate.

Yes, Ghost of Ed, Layton is pushing for the coalition of the desperate, none more desperate than he. This would give him his one chance in his lifetime to get his butt into a cabinet seat.

Given the antics of Mr Dithers the second, Count Iggula, its anyone's guess what will happen. His highness has a penchant for professorial musings but will follow the Liberal tradition of the direction of the political winds, aka polls.

Quebec is still playing games because that tactic has always worked in the past,it's political blackmail, they wrote the book, gimme, gimme more or I'll leave.

Just when we think Separatism is on the wane, they elect a slate of Separatists to our HOC to represent one province, and are the third party in the HOC. They continue to abuse and laugh at the ROC and apparently our Constitution allows something this close to Treason.

Time to reopen that Constitution Quebec never did sign.

Ah Howard Galganov ! Personally I prefer the other Howie. [And I don't like him much]
In 1999, the Montreal Gazette did a long series portraying Quebec's IMpurlaine population --
Howard gets a mention.

The new anglo
ALEXANDER NORRIS The Gazette Saturday 29 May 1999

She's likely to have roots in the Mediterranean or Asia; she uses French easily, as a matter of course
[...]
Commentators have remarked on a hardening of attitudes and rhetoric among English-speakers hostile to Quebec nationalism in the aftermath of the federalists' near-loss in the 1995 sovereignty referendum.
There's been the swelling of the partition movement, with its call for huge swaths of Montreal and other parts of Quebec to be lopped from the province and appended to what's left of Canada in the event Quebecers vote to secede.

There's been Howard Galganov, the ad man cum radio host who helped spearhead that campaign and is notorious among francophones for his description of separatists as "bastards."
And there's Johnson, the feisty former newspaper columnist who was re-elected by acclamation last week to the leadership of Alliance Quebec, a group he has taken in a more confrontational direction. Johnson spearheaded last fall's street protests on the commercial-signs issue; now he's pushing for a scrapping of nationalist policies like the schooling provisions of Bill 101, Quebec's French Language Charter, which restrict access to English public schools.

All of it has won the anglo protest movement - the "angryphones," as some pundits have dubbed them - a lot of media attention. Indeed, although the extent of support for their tactics among anglophones as a whole is unclear, this movement is sometimes cast as the public face of all English Quebec.

Still, some analysts doubt its approach is the way of the future for anglo-Quebec politics.
Critical to the movement's ability to rally English-speakers is a strong sense of anglophone identity, these analysts argue.
And that identity is being weakened by a host of transformations in English Quebec: fast-rising bilingualism, skyrocketing intermarriage with francophones, and growing ethnic and racial diversification.
[...]
+++
In other words, things are getting better which is worse for cranks like Howard. [If the economy really tanks, that may change. ]
So he is reduced to bragging about shocking a reporter. [who obviously called him for just that purpose]
And this thread, like Galganov, is a blast from the past and quite appropriate for the end of the year.

Well, having another language is nice, broadens the mind, etc, however the reality is that French is not the important language that is once was. I also am not happy about the restricted options for younger Canadians who want country-wide mobility with English only. I also have a perennial bee in my bonnet about the term "French Canadians", or "English Canadians". I am not an English Canadian, I am of Nordic descent, I speak English, and I'm a (western) Canadian.

Two words that would be an issue for a sovereign or seperate Quebec - "Churchill Falls".

By the time the numbers allow the West to determine it’s own future it will have been drained of everything that would allow it to determine it’s own destiny. The smart Countries around the world threw the french out, Indo China, Algeria, before they had been stripped of their resources. This Country seems to have some twisted emotional guilt about telling someone that’s slowly killing them to stop. The bastards don’t even need the numbers, just look at the federal civil service today, they control it through official bilgualism. Go to languagefairness.ca it will give you some “positive insight” on the two cultures coming together through bilingualism.

It’s not about maturity or rights or any other self serving touchy feely interests, it’s about power. You don’t just shake a leech off, you have to forcibly remove it. As the old adage goes, power is taken not given, and for now and the foreseeable the french and quebec are taking it.

Erik you're right. Chuchill Falls would be a big issue as it has been in the past. And the sleepy, cowardly MSM does the ROC no favours by it's continuing efforts to normalize separatism.

dizzy - how does a 'blast from the past' align with the current Coalition Agreement, which sets up the Bloc, a political party out of the reach of over 80% of the electorate, as the sole party in charge of confidence (and other) votes in the House of Commons? (Coalition Dec 1/08)

How does a 'blast from the past' align with the written agreement from the letter written by these Three Amigos, which refers to 'Canadians and Quebecers' with regard to their participation in the recent federal election (letter Dec 1/08).

How does the October 14/08 election act as a 'blast from the past' which put 50 Bloc MPs into the federal government, despite their asserted mandate that they seek the 'separation of Quebec from Canada'?

These are current actions and deny the alignment of Quebec with 'the rest of Canada'.

Could you provide proof that the reporter had nothing better to do than bait Mr. Galganov?

Growing ethnic and racial diversification? Heh. Prove it. Check out the 'visible minority' statistics in Quebec. Check out numbers and city locations.

Bilingualism? Outside of Montreal and the Townships? Intermarriage - outside of Montreal and the Townships? Proof please of your 'skyrocketing' figures.

What about the PQ and their public goals of separation?

Dizzy has to refer to a nine year old article to make a pointless point.

There are no transfer payments in the U.S., if the Frenchies want to sit on their lazy asses in Louisianna and play fiddles and eat gators, so be it, there is no other productive part of the U.S. that has to ante up like here in Canada for the lazyness or fiscal incompetence of Quebec, I just wish for my childrens sake they do not have to endure 50 plus years of these extortionists like I have. Please Quebec separate, take your part of the debt you have mostly racked up through your incompetence and go, you are nothing more than a welfare province.

In my books Churchill Falls is not a problem, they were given the District d'ungava at the turn of the 20th century, when they go it doesn't go, we're taking it back.

How many of you idiots have actually ever been to QC. I am Australian by birth and a Quebecer by choice. I love this place and will stay even if it did separate (not something I wish for).

It's an incredibly beautiful place. The people are warm,generous and charming.

Sure, the roads are bad and we are overtaxed, but we manage to stay pretty gruntled.

I agree with you Bartinsky. PMSH has the right idea - decentralize and stop equalization. If a province is broke - fix it by voting in a new batch of public servants to run the show. This works: see Sask. and NFLD. Provinces could vote on official language and use only one (or two IF the province wishes to pay for that arrangement with that province's own money) language for all official business - two or three is way too expensive for most provinces. Immigrants learn the official language (and laws) - if the province needs immigrants that province can sponsor their own language schools.

The Federal government should never choose to favour any province with extra resources in a Con- federation (not federation) via tax revenues sent to the Federal government to attend to trade, defense, international relations, etc. Con- federation is our set-up here, in Canada. PMSH is the first Prime Minister who is willing to honor that set-up.

Quebec better be careful what it asks for ...they just might get it - from the rest of the 'siblings'. We are fed up with the whining and failures....One (more) bail-out demand could result in a toss out.

We have had this problem in my family - one sister-in-law who is never happy to be in our family has poisoned all celebrations with her negative presence for years. She stirs up trouble by cozying up to one member and trashes the rest of the family to that member then stabs that 'former allie' in the back and moves on to another member...we finally got wise, spoke to each other and decided to ostracise HER. She does not care - but the rest of us are WAY happier without her! We are all sorry we let it go so long...a lot of hard feelings and harsh words were spoken to each other..it takes time to heal and it is easy to rip off a scab.

We're tired of feeding the separatists our tax dollars to keep guys like you gruntled. By the way, I was born and brought up in Quebec, I'm bilingual, two of my children were born in Quebec and I spent more than half my life there. Don't preach to me.

Above message at 7:50 was meant for Aussie cum Separatiste, JLC.

ET writes of the Quebecois: "They are also quite stunned when you tell them how disinterested in Quebec the rest of Canada is..."

Interestingly many people in English Canada have an equally difficult time understanding how disinterested in the rest of Canada the people of Quebec are. Frankly, I don't see the problem. One of the great things about Canadian patriotism is that it is expressed by love and loyalty for our home provinces and communities. People in Quebec who are quite content to be Canadian may have no interest in anything in Saskatchewan or PEI, and the feeling is often mutual.

The co-dependent elites of Ontario and Quebec have been the major proponents of some elusive "Canadian identity" that is as artificial as Katimivik and Joe Clark.

jlc- I lived in Quebec for about 20 years. I think I have a reasonably good, non-idiotic, sense of the place.

Don't make generalizations about the people; the ones who steal cars, steal from the homes of people on vacation, confront anyone who wants to set up his own business without a union...they aren't all 'warm, generous and kind'.

I suspect you live in Montreal. You ought to know that Montreal is not Quebec. It's an island unto itself.
Montreal as an isolate entity lives in its own postmodern surreal aura; it doesn't have a clue about what's going on outside that bubble.

And kindly remember who is paying for all this warmth and kindness. Is sure isn't the Quebecois!

jema54 - yes, I agree. I think that official bilingualism should be stopped; provinces should be unilingual. If they choose to be bilingual, they can pay for it themselves. After all, Quebec is unilingual; it rejects English. The only bilingual province is NB. My point is that WE, the taxpayer, should not have to pay to put some bored bilingual postal agent sitting in the postoffice in Saskatoon...or pay to have all our documents translated into both languages...or pay to have Air Canada always have to have someone on board speaking French..and so on.

jlc shrieks: "How many of you idiots have actually ever been to QC."

I have. Several times. Montreal, Quebec city, and the boondocks too. Chicks dress nice, food is good. Other than that its pretty annoying trying to get anything done, and a high percentage of the people I ran into had a crappy attitude.

I prefer Arizona. Less attitude. Nicer weather.

Part of my job is having to make bilingual announcements.After one such announcement a man approached me to ask me this,"Har you da won ooo speak da french",I responded that indeed it was me making the french announcements.He then said to me ,"your french no good".I then asked him if it was as bad as his english.The incredulous look that crossed his face,he could attack me for my language skills but I couldn't attack him for his,which I might add was far worse than my french.

Being preached to about Quebec by a freaking Aussie,just when you think that you've heard it all,along hops crocodile la pew.

i grew up in quebec and left in 1977 - just one part in what can be described as the single quickest and largest mass migration in the history of north america. i no longer felt welcome in the province that was my home. the friends i grew up with are mostly anywhere else but quebec. i moved back to montreal in 1998. it is a great place to live and work (aside from the taxes - but we're working on that).

back in the sixties a considerable number of quebecois jumped onto an idea that was fueled by romance, bitter twisted militant unions, money from BIG unions, subsidised artists, and marxism that replaced traditional jesuit philosophy during the defenestration of the church. one thing remains constant throughout this test of national will despite the confusion caused by indepedantistes, sovereignists, nationalists or separatistes or whatever the f*** they choose to call themselves and that is that they remain a minority.

let's face it - in our "messy" democracy they have legitimate access to power and use it to divide canada. stephen harper pushes back hard when he makes it known that taxpayers should not be funding the objectives of private political organisations. the bloc, under duceppe (a maoist even into his thirties - yikes) stands to lose the most and that is the good news.

many here at kate's sda do not have unfiltered access to the changes taking place in quebec - it's just the language thing. the truth in any language is - if a political party cannot deliver - it will die off. and that is what is happening because the bloc under gilles duceppe has never delivered anything. nothing. the same with the left wing parti quebecois - they are socialists and couldn't manage themselves out of a paper bag.

the blanket message "get the hell out of my country you ungrateful insert-nasty-characterisation-here" is angry and (justified or not) fodder for the left's propoganda machine and ensuing emotional response. i, like many others, would prefer that the message continue with calling the movement out on canadian terms, reinforcing that residents of quebec can be quebecois and canadian at the same time (apparently some 65% of quebec's population knows this) - that the two are not mutually exclusive. the electorate in quebec needs an alternative to the bloc who present themselves as protectors of quebec. what bullshit!

i no longer refer to this group as indepedantistes, sovereignists, nationalists or separatistes or whatever the f*** they choose to call themselves - they are secessionists and THEIR message needs to be marginalised as rhetoric rightly deserves to be. the nonsense that stephen harper was damaging the national fabric by calling the bloc "separatists" is a false accusation coming from tired old liberal thinking. yes, we need to go straight at them - because they are damned secessionists but only as long as they can garner votes. get rid of the $1.95 subsidy.

or let's get rid of newfoundland because of danny williams or saskatchewan because of tommy douglas or british columbia because of dave barret or ontario because of bob rae.

jlc I don't know what part of OZ you are from but with the comment you made I doubt like hell it was Western Australia. Most of them have about as much use for the east we have here, Perth is like Alberta on the ocean, same go getem attitude.

Name a French speaking country on the planet you would truly like to live and work? (First or second language).

Yea, learning French as a second language is a very important issue.

"I am Australian by birth and a Quebecer by choice."

What is he, nuts?

Ah - roseberry - wait just a friggin minute here. You are going to compare Quebec's "love and loyalty to their home province" to Saskatchewan's or any other "province's" love and loyalty to their province. Don't even begin to make that comparison. Quebecers will never refer to their 'province' as a 'province'. They will always refer to it as their "patrimoine". Quebecers call their legislature the "national assembly". Hello, they do not have "nationhood" but no matter.

Do not ever compare any of the nine (or ten - who knows these days) provinces to that piece of land called "Quebec". If you really take a critical look at our country you cannot but come to the conclusion that "one of these things doesn't belong here - one of these things isn't the same."

Posted by: ET
"dizzy - how does a 'blast from the past' align with the current Coalition Agreement, which sets up the Bloc, a political party out of the reach of over 80% of the electorate, as the sole party in charge of confidence (and other) votes in the House of Commons? (Coalition Dec 1/08)"
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Glad you asked. I think Canada has been muddling along in the general direction of coalition governments ever since the regionally-based parties [BQ; Reform] had their initial success.
Locally concentrated power is the one thing that can render our first past the post system inoperable and force proportional rep. But there is a long road to travel towards legitimacy . And the present battle is over just that -- legitimacy.
This wasn't the first step. Reform & the PC remnants formed a sort of coalition, right? Remember the C.R.A.P.? [but the acronym stank]
And then there was this [to be kept in mind for next month] --
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Sept 9, 2004
Her Excellency the Right Honourable Adrienne Clarkson,
C.C., C.M.M., C.O.M., C.D.
Governor General
Rideau Hall
1 Sussex Drive
Ottawa, Ontario, K1A 0A1

Excellency,

As leaders of the opposition parties, we are well aware that, given the Liberal minority government , you could be asked by the Prime Minister to dissolve the 38th Parliament at any time should the House of Commons fail to support some part of the government's program.

We respectfully point out that the opposition parties, who together constitute a majority in the House, have been in close consultation. We believe that, should a request for dissolution arise this should give you cause, as constitutional practice has determined, to consult the opposition leaders and consider all of your options before excercising your constitutional authority.

Your attention to this matter is appreciated.

Sincerely,
Harper
Duceppe
Layton
http://www.garth.ca/weblog/2008/12/04/deceiver/
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A final note. Ottawa ambassadors are apparently nonplussed by this uproar -- coalitions are a fact of life in most modern democracies, and certainly not considered undemocratic.
[Its our electoral system that they consider undemocratic]

Posted by: Ghost of Ed
"Dizzy has to refer to a nine year old article to make a pointless point."
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You don't deserve an answer, but it's Christmas.
These articles were written at a time when political temperatures in Quebec were much higher than now.
Ranters like Galganov pranced like "Alberta Libre" types in the early 80s.
Yet the articles showed that Anglo Quebec was healthy, increasingly multilingual, and becoming ever more integrated into general cultural life.
Since then things have cooled considerably. Even Islamic families want to attend Cabane à sucre .
But not Galganov -- he still steams away.
And as before he has cheeleaders from similar types outside Quebec -- who only need a shot of politically interesting times to climb aboard their manure spreaders.
Do you consider Galganov part of your anglo identity? Perhaps the black cowboy hat has convinced you?
Join me for a beer sometime -- http://www.bieresetmonde.com/actualite/2004/1001mil.gif

Posted by: johnnyonline

A fine and entertaining analysis.
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"Or Alberta because of ..." oh never mind.
Despite not agreeing with your solutions at the end, I enjoyed your post immensely.
Want to tell these people how important Howard Galganov is?

pleased to oblige dizzy -

mr.galganov is a more provocative than interesting voice on the fringes of the debate and enjoys a small following. he introduced the idea of partitioning quebec into the mainstream. wants the gatineau - montreal - eastern townships - south shore corridor to be known officially as "laurier".

for this reason he is vilified by most secessionists and the really rabid ones actually made him take their threats seriously. he now lives in ontario and continues to kick up dust - most recently in embrun.

imagine his frustration with individuals who could not understand that partitioning quebec was no different than partitioning canada.

the clarity act calls for a clear question in case of a referendum (known affectionately here in quebec as neverendums) and mandates the feds to negotiate in the event that a majority want to opt out of confederation. i love that word negotiate.

the official line from the indepedantistes, sovereignists, nationalists or separatistes or whatever the f*** they choose to call themselves is that quebec's borders are inviolable.

with any luck we'll never need to find out.

jlc - your comments belie any understanding you think you might have about the dynamics of Canada. You are in Quebec and appear to like the place. Bully for you. Now come live awhile in some other part of Canada and see it from our side of the window.

On both an economic and a social basis Quebec is quite different from the roc. Your adopted province is a leech at best and a threatening bully at worst. We, especially in the West, are calling them on it. They will never separate so long as the money keeps coming. Many of us are saying that the gravy train has to stop and Quebec has to fend for itself. If they want to pick up their ball and go home then so be it.

Enough is enough.

Funny.

Quebecers telling the rest of us "you just don't understand!"

What you lot don't understand is that a growing number of people in ROC don't care. We don't care about the "interesting" changes which are happening in the montreal ridings which elect trudeaus and dions. We don't care about your culture or ambitions. We don't care that things are "less heated" or have calmed down.

We only care about hearing your plans when they consist of and exit strategy with a commitment to follow through for once.

The only other issue I have is how to force you to take Toronto when you leave.

I've been to Montreal (many times) and Quebec City (once.) Had a lot of fun in Montreal every time I went there. Quebec City is the most beautiful place to hate all the residents. They're rude, bigoted and mannerless. This I noticed as a kid in the supposed tourist areas where you figure the least intolerance people would be. Kids shouldn't notice the adults being nasty.

i have worked in quebec and have had people work for me in quebec. the best thing that could happen to the people of quebec would be a definate decision to separate. they would come to the realization that not being part of canada would result in third world poverty. all those people who have property in flordia and the bahamas would have to go to those countries and work to stay alive. stupid i say, stupid. why do we listen to or give credence to such nonsence.

The charade of Quebec separatism is another in a long list of myths foisted on the Canadian people by a very few rabid bigots and racists from Quebec, and parroted by the terminally stupid agents in the MSM in the ROC. The myth of Quebec separation from Canada is just that, a myth. Now we're told by the MSM to not call Separatists, Separatists, or what? They might actually separate! In another world it would be funny. My advice to the bigots and racists who live in the protective bubble of Quebec, and continually vote for the PQ and the BLOC is to take you're separatist ideals, and you're 130 billion dollar debt and go already. When you're gone, see how fast you're pretend,manufactured culture lasts without someone else paying the bills.