Has the sordid coalition achieved its objectives? Read and answer the questions posed below, and be a hero!!

http://burpnrun.blogspot.com/2008/12/how-many-objectives-has-coalition.html

PM Harper was interviewed by Mansbridge today.

After reading the comments on CBC.ca apparently our Prime Minister didn't say what the cbc'ers wanted him to say.Must be a good interview.

I guess we'll be able to see it on the so-called National tonight.
I'm looking forward to "Peter, let me finish the sentence."

Precisely.

Now, with 2,019,449 votes for the man from Ontario, can we please cut crap with the "let the bastards freeze in the dark" comments?

Thanks in advance.

I'm glad they are ignoring the polls and are sticking with their plan to overthrow the Government. The libs think that Harper is terrified of the coalition of the wheeling. The GG will take advice of the PM and look at the fact that Canadians would rather go to the polls than support Mugabites.

A few thoughts for your perusal.

Given that Jack Layton was cooking up this deal with the BLOC long before the trap was sprung, Canadians are entitled constitutionally to give their blessing or condemnation to this alliance via a vote.

To argue otherwise is dishonest, a hi-JACK of Parliament, and suggests that the party in Parliament with the most seats 143 has zero say in how the country is run.

The “cabal-ition” plainly had this planned all along, and the 1.95/vote subsidy was just the trigger to unleash a preconceived plan; notwithstanding Dion’s denunciation that he would never get into a coalition with the NDP during the election period. The “cabal-ition” is just a convenient end run around the electorate because they didn’t get the result they wanted.

In effect with the BLOC holding a veto over any and all legislation produced by the NDP-Liberal coalition, Quebec would get an effective veto over the rest of Canada, which was roundly rejected in the Meech Lake, and Charlottetown Accords. I wonder how the other nine provinces will take to this novel arrangement.

Thus the man who writes the Clarity Act, and the party that let “Adscam” run, to fight the bad old separatists are now sharing the same bed.

So Stephane Dion, Jack Layton, Gilles Duceppe with the blessing of Jacques Parizeau have unleashed the command of “Torpedo LOS!” We now have a “fish in the water” directed at HMCS Canada.

All hands on deck, man your battle stations, evasive maneuvers: hard to starboard.

Ready the depth charges, its time to go submarine hunting.

Helluva time for handling "political explosives" at Christmas.

Cheers

Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief

Frankenstein Battalion
2nd Squadron: Ulanen-(Lancers) Regiment Großherzog Friedrich von Baden(Rheinisches) Nr.7(Saarbrucken)
Knecht Rupprecht Division
Hans Corps
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North

Must be that they missed the math classes, also reading comprehension classes to.

Inretesting numbers...Elizabeth May recently stated when the rumours had her going into the Senate..."I'll be the only one in the Senate with a million votes."

Sorry, Lizzy, not even close.

The Green Party only got 814,000 votes nation-wide and a paltry 35,000 in Nova Scotia where you
ran.

Nice try though.

It's true.

Who is the second largest vote-getter in the City of Toronto? The NDP? Nope---the CPC. The NDP have TWO SEATS. But to listen to the media tell it...

Facts? Since when have the media been interested in facts? They're here to creat the news, not report it.

Just looking at the Quebec numbers I am looking forward to the NDP saying that the federalist parties got more than 50% of the votes in the election.....so maybe the GG should kick a few BQ members out of their seats.

CBCpravda and CTV(tass)

when a beautiful theory is destroyed by ugly facts , make them up.

Re: ...can we please cut crap with the "let the (eastern) bastards freeze in the dark" comments?...
Based on an analysis of these numbers, it's clear that this sort of remark is most likely to be made - statistically speaking, that is - by Ontarians demanding (as is their God-given prorogative) that we Westerners do the heavy lifting with respect to all the provinces east of Ontario. (lol!)

IMO, Harper brought this upon himself by playing tactical politics at a time when he should have been showing leadership. A "balanced budget" and inflammatory changes to election funding and public employee rights while the economy crashes and burns?

send darryl a little traffic from SDA. its lonely in the pass

http://darrylraymaker.blogspot.com/

The New Brunswick Number doesn't look right - only 14,000 for the CP? Perhaps it should read 114,000...

I hope Rod B, has fowarded these stats to the CBC/CTV Left Wing Advertising Company.

Craig Oliver holds one record according to something I once read. Been in Ottawa as a reporter since it was called Bytown and has never had one scoop story involving Liberal corruption.

bsneath

Try to keep up.

NB was 145132 votes for the CPC

While I'm not necessarily in favour of the "East freezing in the dark", I do (as a person living in Western Canada) get a bit tired of the superior attitude that, if it doesn't happen in Toronto, is doesn't happen, and that Toronto is the centre of the known universe. Get real! Come to the West Coast and see why so many Ontarians retire here. If they don't like it they can always go back, but none ever do.

I also take umbrage with the idea that the NDP and the Bloc didn't have this little escapade all cooked up BEFORE the election. The Liberals are just willing dupes in the whole process. I don't think even the Great Messiah down sount could resurect them now.

Sorry, that last sentence should say "down south"

Sorry, that last sentence should say "down south"

And post the Coalition debacle, excluding hyper-urban toronto and vancouver, CP support west of the Ottawa river is probably well above 55 percent, maybe even above 60%.

IOW hige majority territory and roughly equal to the odds Mansbridge, Oliver et al get early retirement in the next 24 months - thay cannot go out this far on the bias limb without consequences

Yes, bsneath, imagine that,eh! The nerve of the Prime Minister cutting government spending and knowing that the CPC would take the biggest cut. What was he thinking!!
Did he think he would get away with that? he must have thought he just formed the government and had some decisions to make...it's all his fault!!
Decisions...like being wise with taxpayers money.

You'll be happy at the CBC.ca comments section where PMSH even gets blamed for ruining the Mansbridge interview. It's all his fault that Peter kept interrupting.
What does he think he is...the Prime Minister or what!Doesn't he know Mansbridge rules?

I would like to print this chart but it comes up blank. Could you let us know where to go and get the same info? Thanx

"IMO, Harper brought this upon himself by playing tactical politics at a time when he should have been showing leadership."

LOL all My life people wined about politicians giving themselves pay raises, spare me. Harper wanted to cut the salary of the liberal party and they are too lazy to fund raise.

I'd love an election campaign with the Libs and NDP saying we need your tax dollars because all our patronage handouts, haven't generated enough party revenue.

Hey wait maybe winter 2009

:)

the chart is proof that the CPC is the only truly national party . and in the words of one of my least favourite PMs , da proof is da proof...

I remember Peter Pansbridge( head of CBCpravda fantasy news) in the previous election saying the Liberals were shut out in Alberta but the CPC was shut out of PEI. yeah, any one riding in Alberta is larger than the combined population of PEI, what do these guys smoke?
CBCPravda coverage this time , since they knew their boys didnt have a chance included coverage by comedians. why not make light of it, the biggest joke was coming.

I 'ave a peicd of paber wit mssr. laytons signature on id. piecemeal in our time

bsneath must prescribe to the "new economics" theory that Fred Thompson was splain'n. Now if we could only get FT and BO to butt out all would be well.

Now that I think about it, doesn't PMSH smoke? Perhaps we can catch him in the act, or Photoshop something. Then we'll really have him by the ballz.

Kate, unfortunately facts don't mean a thing to the Radical Left nor their Komrades in the MSM. On CKNW I just heard Global TV's anchor, Kevin Newman, being interviewed. He said:

1. It'll be interesting to see if Michael Ignatieff can rise above the partisanship like Obama did. [It's interested to see how Newman is already rewriting history so soon after the recent U.S. election campaign.]

2. Michael Ignatieff is a very "interesting" person who Canadians will be eager to get to know.

Barf. Barf. Barf.

Oh well, at least we now have confirmation that ALL THREE of our TV networks are fully inline behind the Liberals. Know They Enemy!

I'm getting cranky.The weather is really pis@y in the Ottawa area this week,thank god for for Avalanche. The days are very short so there is a small window to complete the farm chores,work ,etc..... Now I really have a joyous life but every once in awhile I snap and the endless crap spewed by the "media" is pis@#$g me off. I am talking about full blown rightous PMS anger. The CBC has got to go. I already pay way to much tax,not just federally, to have to pay for a corporation that thinks it can use my money to sh@t on the PM of my country.
AWWWWWWWw thanks for letting me rant

For the people reading here that Harper "made a mistake" or "he brought this on himself" and especially for the trolls out there try this thought on for size. Harper and the CPC knew before the election in October that there was a rumour of a coalition. He orchestrated an insignifigant economic proprosal to be tabled knowing there would be outrage, just as he knew what the reception to the introduction to the arts cutback in Quebec would be. He has effectively ousted the opposition for what they are, trough swilling bottom feeders. He knows that the MSM will never, ever give him an unbiased headline so he lets the opposition go 'hog wild' (pardon the pun). The average Canadian now has a clearer picture of what has been happening in the halls of power with the natural reigning party and the dippers for the last few decades. They will do anything to regain power and the Bloc have been black mailing us for years with seperation and the average Canadian didn't know that they were financing the Bloc. So Harper has split the Liberal party, united the rest of Canada even some Quebecquois against the Bloc and he's even accomplished this while he was sick with the flu. He has time to go Christmas shopping, sit back and see what Obama is going to do, (providing the 'O' doesn't get impeached before Jan. 20) and work out a budget that the Liberals don't dare vote against. I've said it here before, Harper is to politics as Kasparov is to chess. Iggy can't make up his mind about deciding and he thinks the puffin should be the Liberal party mascot because it buries its excrement, Layton is a sock puppet that is controlled by Duceppe and Duceppe is an egotist that thinks he's going to get Quebec to seperate. They're all bonkers, even when they decide to gang up on the CPC they can't stick to the plan. IF, capital I capital F, they take Harper's government down over the upcoming budget Canadians will send the Libs and Dips to political purgatory for the next two sessions, and the CBC and Toronto Star will be there with them to hold their hands and commiserate about what a bully Stephen Harper is and how its all his fault that the electorate finally found out the truth.

Looks like the Liberals Narrative has turned from being the Iliad besieging the Conservative Troy with Harper as their Paris to seethe against. Instead they find themselves in the Odyssey with 20 years of exile & many political extinctions to come.
That's the matter with Narcissism. They avoid unpleasant facts like Reality, with it child Human nature. Good graft. Shows up the spin for what it is. This numbers game is an excuse to further their propaganda as actuality. No this was not Harpers fault. This was part of the campaign for this "Separatist Coalition". Harper in fact, just caught the coup before it was complete for them. Canadians want, only means what they will do no matter what real Canadians desire.

Now we have the spectacle of Bob Rae squealing pig like over the fact Liberals will loose their right to vote for a Leader. Humn Bob, sounds familiar. The man who would be King takes our vote away in a self righteous huff with one hand. While baying hurt feelings over his own self being done the same shade. Its too funny!
Only in an alternate universe with upside down laws would this work. Prepare yourselves for even more cock-and-bull story’s for this Junta in progress, now that they have been exposed as the anti-Democratic Elitists they truly are.

Norman Spector nailed it on Monday when he said the media types are going on a selling binge in the tank for whomever is not a conservative, It's up to us folks. send an e-mail everytime you hear remarks that set your hair on fire.Better yet turn them off and don't buy their newspapers. Let them know why,hit em in the pocketbook, that they will get.Start a retirement fund for the worst of them.

If the MSM tell a lie enough times then perhaps it will be believed ... or at least that is what the likes of CBC and CTV appear to hope for.

The polls show the complete opposite of the BS the MSM is trying to portray that PM Harper is the cause of all this dissent in Parliament.

Take Bob Rae ( ... no pun intended) or example. He was going to champion the Coalition even though the polls showed 60%..70% of Canadians against it !

Ah well Bob Rae to a walk on the sidewalk last night and stepped in some dog sh#@ , which focused his mind while scraping it off with a stick and VOILA he quits ... BUT ... he is still flogging a Coalition ... the guy is a total educated MORON !

To answer your question, Kate, is easy.

The MSM windbags who continue to use the terms you indicated, "Western/Alberta Conservatives" whilst alleging that PM Harper is "the one causing division", well, what, again, has it been said is the defintion of insanity?

“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”. -Albert Einstein

What the MSM windbags are doing, the definition above can be modified somewhat for them and their behavior. Of course, in their case, it's more like continuing to say the same old thing is true despite the plainly obvious fact that it is not.

Not surprising to observe such behavior in those who can be considered as being leftist/"liberal"/"progressive".

Or maybe they're simply stupid- can't understand the provided-in-the-chart-above numbers' meaning, and that they, in part, mean that the Conservaties are the least divisive party in Canada, and that they're the only truly national party now.

Insane, stupid, or both- you pick.

Or...

Alternatively, they believe that continuing to parrot the old, outdated talking points about divisiveness and the "right" will continue to keep those voters who used to not vote Reform/CA/Conservative thinking that the Conservatives are divisive (and all those other nasty things they're STILL getting accused of being, by hypocrites, mind y'all), thus manipulating same into continuing to shun the Conservatives at the voting booth. Well, it's not working, as each election since 1993 has seen a rise in votes (and seats) for Reform/CA/CPC, despite the continuing false, pejorative talking points hurled at them by the MSM windbags as well as their political opponents.

No one should be surprised by the bias shown by CTV and Craig Oliver in particular. Anyone who watched CTV on election night would be hard pressed not to see the absolute bitterness and hostility Craig Oliver portrayed that night when it was clear the Liberals had lost!

Here are some CTV affiliations with the Liberals from none other than the great Warren Kinsella!

... note ... Craig Oliver's connection.

http://www.warrenkinsella.com/index.php?entry=entry081022-092810

"...Here's what I know:

• the head of CTV, Ivan Fecan, headed a major fundraiser for Jean Chrétien
• one of his senior Vice Presidents, Paul Sparkes, was Chrétien's Director of Operations
• the network's pollster, Peter Donolo, was Chrétien's Director of Communications
• Craig Oliver was one of the closest people to Pierre Trudeau, and used to go on annual canoe trips with him
• Jane Taber used to be regularly mocked by Frank magazine for being a Liberal shill
• Roger Smith's wife was a senior aide to Trudeau
• Jim Munson, a Liberal Senator, became a Chrétien aide after leaving a senior spot at CTV
• Mike Duffy is a creampuff, and has loyal friends in every party
• Seamus O'Regan hangs out with Justin Trudeau and Dalton McGuinty's former Principal Secretary
• Rosemary Thompson is a sweetheart, and used to date Liberals at Carleton (the shame!)
• Bob Fife would take down anyone, if they deserved it, regardless of party affiliation
..."

Maggie:

Hit "print screen"

Got to microsoft paint

paste

save

print

Anyone who gets in the way of the Liberals is an enemy of the CBC.

Check out the snotty, sneering attitude of Don Newman as he interviews Baird on CBC:

http://alice-the-camel.blogspot.com/2008/12/don-newman-documented-loss-of-mental.html

After the interview rolls a bit, watch Newman's scoffing, "I-can't-believe-what-a fool-you-are" face when Baird is speaking. Watch how around 1:43, when Baird is answering a question, Newman keeps the microphone in front of his own mouth.

There's a typical Keith Boag bit at the end of the vid, too.

Liberal errand-boys, not journalists. Disgusting, unprofessional, fraudulent.

bsneath: "IMO, Harper brought this upon himself by playing tactical politics at a time when he should have been showing leadership."

Tactical politics IS leadership.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper is the ONLY Canadian politician who IS showing leadership. Our problem is that the other parties, who are sore losers and could give a good gol darn about democracy, won't let him lead. They'd rather cut our Prime Minister off at the knees--such a Librano tactic. And, BTW, when they cut him off at the knees, they cut Canadian democracy off at the knees.

What do they care? They're simply interestd in POWER and will use any means to get it.

Canadians aren't buying it.

" ... Anyone who gets in the way of the Liberals is an enemy of the CBC. ..."

So true , but CTV is no better. I recall a Christmas interview a few years back in which Roberston and Craig Oliver were interviewing Chretien ... it was pathetic ... Robertson and Oliver were all but kneeling at Chretien's feet and kissing his shoes !

... BUT .. when they interviewed PM Harper last year you could feel the tension even watching it on TV.

Canada sorely needs a Canadian version FOX news up here.

Well on the positive side I read that the NY Times has fallen on hard times ( no pun intended) and are selling ... or trying to sell some real estate they own for $225M to help them weather the economic storm.

Pehaps, Mansbridge and Oliver should take one for the team and step down, taking a few others with them. Are there no journalists in Canada left who actually like to spend their own money vs. funding big gov't and leaving the nanny state to decide what is in their best interests?

Craig Oliver is an amazing reporter. He can do a 180 without blinking an eye.

It would be interesting to see this chart for the 2006 election, and then again after the 2009 election.

Craig Oliver is legally blind.
That being said not being able to see still doesn't explain not having a brain.

Canada needs a FOX news. True, but it will never happen.
CRTC,full of Liberals, will make sure of that.

Well we all know Craig Oliver is one of those self appointed political gurus who believes what only himself and what this other guru buddies have to say..isn't it called the Parliamentary Press Gallery? Ladies who lunch! They who believe they make policy just by reporting something with a straight face and utmost authority? Show him the figures and he's say well who cares anyway.Show the CBC and they'd say "Don't dare report THOSE figures" God forbid the Liberals would look bad! And now guess waht ...the Liberal die hards dont get to vote after all. Rae pulled out, Ignatieff by acclamation! Saved us some of those tax dollars after all.

Ok ..all my typos are intentional !

Glengarrian: "Craig Oliver is legally blind.
That being said not being able to see still doesn't explain not having a brain."

When you're blind, you usually hone to a sharper point all of your other senses and sensibilities.

Excepting Craig. The only thing that comes to an Oliverian point is Craig's pointed little head.

These are unusual times. It is unfortunate for Canada that on your southern border is the world's most indebted nation. The USA is on the verge of economic collapse. We have been running budget deficits even in good times while Canada has run budget surpluses. What Canadians need to understand is that we are in extraordinary times. A recession calls for fiscal discipline and market place corrections without governmental interference. This is not what we have. We are entering a depression where valuable economic assets will be permanently destroyed. Canada can afford to deficit spend and avoid these destructive depression/deflationary forces. If you do it right, Canada will endure the next decade in much better shape than will the USA. Now is not the time for populist, balanced budget rhetoric. The global economic crisis is deadly serious and the idiotic decisions of Wall Street (and main street) in the USA will bring Canada down with it if you are not diligent.

It is for these reasons that I believe Harper acted callously when presenting a fictional "balanced budget" as well as punitive measures on his "enemies". Maybe these political machinations are acceptable behavior in normal times, but we ARE NOT in normal times.

ulianov:

So, where does Iggy position his party?

Under Steffi, thanks to the influence of Gerard Kenndy and Bob Rae, the party shifted hard left, setting up Rae's wish to unite the left.

In the meantime, Harper's Conservatives claimed the spot on the political spectrum formerly held by the Libs ... albeit slightly to the right.

Harper ran and was elected on ‘a steady hand in turbulent times' as opposed to the ‘we'll spend your money to get Canada prosperous again' troika.

The turbulent times will be gone within 18 months, so it's in Iggy's interest to hope turbulent times continue.

Next move? Who knows?

Where is there for Iggy to park the Libs now that the parking space has been taken?

Maybe rae can now give lizzard May his seat in parlament and go run the greens:-))))

No, we're not in normal times, bsneath. What PMSH did was put parties not pulling their financial weight on notice--as of NOW--that the Canadian taxpayer was no longer going to finance their partisan politics, WITH HIS OWN PARTY TAKING THE HARDEST HIT.

The NDP, LPC, and BQ are not "his enemies." In fact, they are the enemies of all Canadian taxpayers who did not--and never intended to--vote for their particular party. In these not normal times, PMSH was suggesting fiscal restraint and giving the long-beleaguered Canadian taxpayer a bit of a break.

Why does it always have to be about the Liberals, NDP, and Bloc and not about the Canadian taxpayers?

Is it not fiscally prudent to begin to clean house in fiscally challenging times, beginning in one's OWN house, the HOC? I'm one Canadian taxpayer who is mad as Hell that my tax dollars are financing, for instance, the Bloc Quebecois to the tune of 86% of their funding when I will never be given the opportunity to vote for them or demand accountability from them.

What gives with THAT?

from CBCpravda,

http://www.cbc.ca/news/quebecvotes2008/story/2008/12/09/qv-postelection1209.html

good. AMF

The Globe and Mail is blaming Mr. Harper for alienating Quebec by using the term separatist in place of sovereigntist.

Now it seems to me that the coalition's move was a preemptive strike aimed at taking over the government. However, the timing was most ideally suited to affect the Quebec election and succeeded in making the Bloc Quebecois look much more powerful in Ottawa. This would give a big shot in the arm to the provincial election hopes of Quebec separatists.

So the NDP and the Liberals got Bloc support for the coalition in exchange for a pre-election boost for the Parti Quebecois turning a substantial victory into a squeeker for Mr. Charest.

HAHA, they're all talking about how Harper was "bullying" Mansbridge...YESSSSSSSS!!! :)

Bsneath,

I believe that you perhaps are reading or watching the propaganda rags.

Their has been NO budget presented so it could not be a callous act or fictionally balanced.
The "punitive measures" you so incorrectly surmise was supported by over 60% of the population. Most Canadians were not aware that they subsidised sovereignists or politcal parties.

Maybe this has already been mentioned - didn't read all the posts - but New Brunswicks votes - Con 14,000+ doesn't make sense ie 6 seats vs Libs 3 seats (with 100,000 + votes)

earl the pearl - in order to be a sovereign nation, you must be separate from other nations. Otherwise, you aren't sovereign over your own territory, or your own economy, or your own decisions about anything.

It is the Quebecois who are trying to tell us that 'Being Sovereign' doesn't mean 'Being Separate'. Heh. Tell that to any decent political analyst.

As for any 'bump' for the PQ for this, I doubt if that's the case. Remember, most Quebecers don't want to actually separate; they just want the illusion of separation and the dress-up of sovereignty. They certainly don't want to be in charge of their public debt.

The Liberal Agenda now, among other tactics, is going to be to go after the vote in Quebec. They'll do this by painting Quebec as 'sovereign', as 'special', etc. However, the Bloc will fight them over this territorial infringement.

bsneath - Harper hasn't presented his budget; that doesn't come until January. As for your perception of his 'callous' fiscal update, it was, in my view, geared to smoke out the Coalition Hidden Agenda. The Coalition of the NDP, Liberals and Bloc, was planned MONTHS before this time; they planned to spring it on parliament on budget day in January, and stage a surprise coup and demand to be given the government. Without an election. Without the possibility of an election for almost two years.

I think that the Coalition's Hidden Agenda was pure callousness; indeed, it was an outrageous attack on our democracy.

Punitive measures? To stop the taxpayer funding of ALL political parties - including the Conservative party? Do you not realize that the Bloc gets 86% of its funding from Canadian taxpayers - who have NO VOICE in electing any Bloc MPs? Ever heard of: No Taxation Withut Representation?

Rubbish; The US isn't on the verge of economic collapse. Kindly stop with the apocalpytic scenarios. We've just cooled off the last one, which was the global AGW apocalypse. Now, the Emotionalists are into the next one. Gets rather tiresome, this Chasing After Apocalpyses.

We certainly are in extraordinary fiscal and economic times, a 'tectonic shift' as the global infrastructure shifts to accomodate the emergence of more players in the global economy, namely, the emerging middle classes of China and India. And Brazil and some of the ME. That's what's happening, and the economy will shift, and recover. Calm down. I suggest you read 'When Markets Collide - by El-Erian. Won an award for best financial book of the year.

"Craig Oliver is legally blind.
That being said not being able to see still doesn't explain not having a brain.
Posted by: The Glengarrian at December 9, 2008 8:10 PM "

Har ... legally stupid!

How to save the image .
it's a png which I do not know what program opens.

However you can right click on the image choose save as and select all files...rename the file by adding .jpg to it and you'll have a useful jpg image.
That you can repaste anywhere you like.

The unholy alliance has stirred up the crap in Manitoba. The Winnipeg Free press (a long time Liberal slanted newspaper)headlines quote- "MANITOBA LIBERALS JUST SAY NO'. 6 Photos of well known Manitoba Liberals decorate the front page. Here's who they are and what they said. Senator Sharon Carstairs -"I think they have to have some kind of vote among the party membership,I think it'd totally illegitimate for 77 MPs and 58 senators who do not represent the bulk of the constituencies from coast to coast to make this decision" leadership choice - Bob Rae....Former Liberal cabinet minister LLoyd Axworthy said- "The last thing the Liberal party
needs right now is a palace coup. The first and most important rebuilding exercise we can undertake". Favours Bob Rae.... Manitoba Liberal leader Jon Garrard said--" What I am hearing from people in the party is they want to give input in some fashion"..leadership choice undecided...Manitoba MLA Kevin Lamoureux said.."I feel disillusioned that the Liberal party might select a leader in a highly undemocratic fashion. I hope that the Liberals especially those in Ottawa will see the long term harm that will be caused as a direct result" Favours Bob Rae... Senator Maria Chaput said.."we have to really look at what the best way is to make our comeback. We need to come out with a plan this week. The question is how much can you do in a short period of time"...Undecided... Former Cabinet minister Reg Alcock said.."It's not going to be easy,but if we get it wrong with a quickie process it will compound our problems. This is not democracy of convenience" Favours Bob Rae.
There you have it folks. Manitoba Liberals are astonished at what's going on in their party. Regards to all.

Mac:

Hmmm. So there's a whole bunch of NDP Trojan Horses in the Manitoba Liberal Party?

Veeeerry interesting.

From Mike Duffy on CTV News@6 on how to steal a government:

http://watch.ctv.ca/news/clip120231#clip120231

".... and this whole thing about an election at the end of January, first of February, we've checked all the math: Liberals couldn't fund it, even if they wanted to. It's got to be at least six month down the road before they get their rebates from the federal government that they could consider going to an election."

Who owns the liberal timetable? ... it kinda looks like an "outside party".

allan - many thanx

The USA economy is extremely unbalanced. It has been driven largely by personal consumption expenditures on imported goods, financed in large part by the withdrawal of equity from home appreciation - up to $800 billion a year at its peak. This source of finance has dried up, as have credit cards, student loans, etc. Americans in general are facing debt loads that will take years to unwind. Consumer demand will shrink, new construction is coming to a standstill, cap ex will stop, foreclosures and bankruptcies will increase,creating a self-perpetuating downward spiral in economic activity. Simply put, there are no remaining internal "demand generators". We are over-built and over-bought. Our salvation was to be in a devalued currency and increased exports. This abruptly came to a halt with the global credit freeze of last September. This is not emotionalism, it is reality. The bond market is the most reliable indicator of risk, and investors are now willing purchase 3 month Treasuries at negative interest rates due to their aversion to the risk of investing in any other asset class. Canada's largest export market is broke (and broken) and it is losing jobs at a rate of one half million a month. Further, China reacted too slowly in stimulating domestic demand and thus they will be contributing to the global downturn for quite some time before they can take on the role of the economic engine that lifts other economies out of recession. Canada will quickly need to stimulate domestic demand through deficit spending to avoid a similar fate. It may already be too late as Ontario lost 60,000 jobs last month and will surely see escalating rates of job losses going forward. Western Canada job losses are somewhat delayed due to the massive cap ex investments before the credit freeze. This will rapidly change for the worse now that energy investments are being canceled or deferred. Harper should have submitted a budget that aggressively stimulated domestic demand. Rather, he submitted a "balanced budget" based on unrealistic economic assumptions that have already been discredited and he said that he would wait until next Spring to address any need for stimulus. In my opinion, this is not leadership, it is political grandstanding.

I'm getting rather fed up with the Canuck MSM - actually, correct that - I was fed up with them many years ago and thus don't watch them anymore. What I learn of them and their actions today I get from the bloggers, esp. Kate.

Let's review what happened:

1. Harper gets wind of the Lib/NDP/Bloc coalition.

2. Harper puts poison pill in the fiscal update ($1.95/vote).

3. Leftie/Separatist Coalition comes out of the closet and screams blue murder.

4. Harper retracts the poison pill.

5. Coalition still screaming and tries to grab power. Why?

6. Voters see this as a pure power grab.

7. Results - voters VERY angry with Libs/NDP/Bloc amd polls (and Quebec election) show it

8. CPC WAY up in the polls.

And Harper screwed up?? How??

bsneath,

You seem to know a lot!!!! How much is a barrel of oil going to go for next month?

Excellent encapsulation, Niall Mor.
I'll send that to my friends and credit you.

bsneath,
What you wrote looked good on the fast scan I gave it.
I'd read it slowly but you have to make paragraphs for easier reading, the way you do it now makes me have to hold too much in my mind and doesn't allow me to quickly recap ideas.

bsneath, what you suggest didn't work for FDR in the 1930's and it won't work now. "Economic stimulus" and "deficit spending" are just polite ways of saying "centrally planned economy". As you note, the Chicoms aren't doing too well with theirs.

A really huge tax cut, as in cutting the top marginal rate to 20% or less and turfing the GST altogether, that might work. It certainly couldn't hurt.

Harper may actually be smart enough to know he can't fix what's wrong here, and will avoid putting the country massively, ruinously in debt to no good effect. I sincerely hope so.

Sharing the pain with Canadians not on the government payroll:

- Reduction of the $1.95 party subsidy because Canadians don't want another election soon so why provide the parties with $28 Million ANNUALLY ?!

- Reduction of the CBC annual Billion$$$ subsidy because Canadians can no longer afford that broadcasting failure which has 10,000 fatcat employees (and the equivalent of $100,000 per employee subsidy).

- Reduction of provincial transfer payments because there is only one taxpayer, and efficiencies must be imposed on bloated provincial bureaucracies.

- Reduction of equalization payments thus forcing inefficient provinces to improve their economic performances.

Non-productive paper-pushers must share the pain of unemployed, previously productive factory workers, and natural resources workers.

bsneath: "It is for these reasons that I believe Harper acted callously when presenting a fictional "balanced budget" as well as punitive measures on his "enemies". _ I originally thought these were crude moves, but I have changed my view. I believe that Harper did know that some sort of take-down was in the works. In such a context he needs to secure the cooperation of some group of more moderate MP's. I believe Harper has a vision for Canada (in addition to hopefully some sensible stimulus pkg.) and without a majority and without the support of some group of MP's he is not able to move his vision forward. I believe Harper determined that with Layton/Duceppe's and Dion's maneuvers, Parliament was shaping up to be as disfunctional as previously. This is a high-stakes game -- the government could have fallen . . . and still may, but I think Harper's government would have been seriously hobbled and a coalition poised to take control had Harper not taken steps to reveal this unsavory plan. Among other things, the coalition has been revealed to be a sheer power grab -- with little to do with policy. If Harper had sat back and the "coup" (or whatever) taken place a bit later, it may have appeared to be a serious response to an issue. Harper may not win this gambit, but smoking out the NDP and Bloc and forcing an early decision on the Liberal leadership may prove to be the best chance for his party, his best chance for success as a Prime Minister, and really in the best interests of Canadians during these treacherous times.

Observant" "Reduction of the $1.95 party subsidy because Canadians don't want another election soon so why provide the parties with $28 Million ANNUALLY ?" -- WHAT -- I did not know these guys get this subsidy annually. That's outrageous!

That is my hope, the Phantom.

If the government does "X" or the government does "Y" the government is forcing a command performance of some sector of the economy and that performance may not be the "TICKET" for recovery.
By diverting scarce resources rarefied by an economic slowdown, the government may slowdown economic recovery.

The government is not the adjudicator of the economy.
The government is the guarantor of peaceful coexistence and not a whole lot more should be expected.

Look folks, when it comes to the economy or trends, is the government ever less than 6 months to 2 years behind what is actually happening?

I think the government's best stance is to cut impediments to growth(taxes) and stay away from stimulating growth in the wrong direction
(grants) at the cost of the grassroots market determined by Canadian consumers.

Kate - didn't have time to read all the comments but if noone else pointed it out your CPC numbers in New Brunswick are off by 100,000. Please add as it is another province the CPC kicked butt.

I've got the chart with corrected numbers as a 'jpg' if I knew where to send it to. The numbers that change are New Brunswick to 145,132 for the Conservatives and that changes the total to 5,206,103

bsneath said: "Ontario lost 60,000 jobs last month'

Yeah, it's a lot of jobs bsneath, especially if yours is one of them. And it's tough on certain regions.

But again, you're having fun with figures. If you compare the TOTAL number of jobs in Canada in relation to the job losses, you'll likely find that the unemployment rate has changed by perhaps 6.2% to 6.6% - pretty much in line with our normal unemployment rate, which for some years has been much lower than historical rates.

I recall a little while ago, some environmental group trying to paint an oil sands producer as destroying a major river by diverting 30 million gallons or some such number annually. Sounds like a big number until it was pointed out that it was about 10 minutes worth of it's annual flow.

That should have read FROM 6.2% to 6.6%, but I'm sure most SDA readers would have gotten my point.

Bsneath, for the umpteenth time, the Conservatives presented a fiscal update, not a budget.

Oz, I'm not an economist. All I know is I can't start so much as a coffee shop around here in the Golden Horseshoe because of regulation costs, taxes and commercial real estate costs. Nobody can, except the big guys. They can negotiate.

As of right now, the big chains are laying off. I heard from a lady today at Home Depot that they've let go 150 -managers- in Ontario this week. Little guys are frozen out and can't take up the slack when the big guys stumble. There ain't no corner hardware stores anymore, they went away 20 years ago.

Either the tax and regulation overburden will change, and soon, or we will have some serious frickin' unemployment and a thriving underground economy around here. Pretty simple, really.

From Mike Duffy on CTV News@6 on how to steal a government:

http://watch.ctv.ca/news/clip120231#clip120231

".... and this whole thing about an election at the end of January, first of February, we've checked all the math: Liberals couldn't fund it, even if they wanted to. It's got to be at least six month down the road before they get their rebates from the federal government that they could consider going to an election."

Bottm line is in January, Harper will have a minority government.. in NAME ONLY!

There will NOT be an election, it would KILL the Librannos. And Mr Demarais's grand plans LOL..

Cut off Pravda and Tass at the the knees.
Go after their income. e-mail/phone execs of advertisers. tie up lines at Pravda and Tass. i don't mind sitting on phone while surfing net. And yes...no death threats. Let's take it to them.

Paul, thank you for posting that clip. Who would have ever thunk [sic] that the Liberal Party of Canada had to hold off 6 months on an election because they didn't have enough money to fund it.

What galls me though is their lack of interest/determination to raise money by putting their case to Canadians and getting it that way. Or maybe they have half-heartily tried and Canadians have said, "Get Lost!" ?!?

"Western Arctic"?

Is there a movement to change the NWT's name I don't know about?

" ... There will NOT be an election, it would KILL the Librannos. And Mr Demarais's grand plans LOL.. "

Rae is one of the few leadership contenders to have had his debts paid.

Speaking of the Desmarais's and Power Corp. (Rae's brother is VP) , I wonder how they feel Bob Rae has quit ?

western arctic? look no further than CBCpravda , they changed it on their own. this is the source data for the chart.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canadavotes/map/2008/#

bsneath - your 'facts' are wrong. Harper didn't present a budget, balanced or unbalanced. Why do you keep declaring that he did?

He presented a fiscal update which has nothing to do with a budget plan, and in this update, he was suggesting ways by which the government sector itself could cut costs - such as reducing civil service wage increases to be the same as those in the private sector (did you know that these people demand 3 to 4 times the wage increases of the private sector?).. and cutting the annual subsidy to political parties of 30 million a year. What's your beef about this update?

It wasn't intended to be an 'economic stimulus' or a 'budget'. Again, governments of single nations don't control the global economy, and it is naive of you to even hope that Canada does this.

Canada has a highly dependent economy, dependent on, in particular, the US to consume its products; Canada's chief export consumer, over 80% is the US. No other country in the world has set itself up to be so dependent on only one country to import its products.

How does a single country, a country that refused to be competitive in the global economy, deal with this global economic restructuring? By networking with other economies - and we have to wait and see what the US is doing, for instance, with their auto sector. And deficit spending, as has been pointed out, isn't a successful strategy.

Not to put too fine a point on it but the posters on SDA from the west do the same thing.

Anything the conservatives do they take credit for solely in the west.

Anything some jerknut liberal does is proof the east hates the west.

Yet almost exactly half the seats the conservatives got were from the east.

Can we drop the "let the eastern bastards freeze in the dark" meme now and just say "smash the left" no matter whey they be?

Warwick: **Can we drop the "let the eastern bastards freeze in the dark" meme now and just say "smash the left" no matter whey they be?**

Assuming you’re a conservative easterner Warwick, I understand your sentiment and agree regarding the “eastern bastards” and your proposed “smash the left” memes.

The problem is that we in the west don’t have a lot to smash, they’re mostly your neighbours.

"What galls me though is their lack of interest/determination to raise money by putting their case to Canadians and getting it that way."

Robert

That would take work.

I agree that CBC is biased, but I think CTV is reasonably neutral. I watched both networks over the past week and CTV had the hard news way before CBC. For example, Bob Fife was devastating on the video fiasco, as was Lloyd Robinson, CBC did not comment on this at the time. Mike Duffy was peristent against a very obnoxious Bob Rae. He also dismissed Ellie May's ranting about tanks on Parliament HIll out of hand. I agree that Donnola is a Liberal shill ( he is identified as such) and that Taber is too bubbly for my taste, but overall, I think their coverage is good. Remember it was CTV who outed Dion on his video performance in the election.

richard . boy did you pick the wrong blog to call CTV(tass) neutral. Craig Oliver is a well known Trudeau shill.

from warwick

Anything some jerknut liberal does is proof the east hates the west.

Yet almost exactly half the seats the conservatives got were from the east.

the liberal splits east west are how to we say it , not so liberally extended.
combine that with a direct attack from BackdoorJack Layton and then ask why the west cant elect a dipper or lieberal government.

anyway ,I cant see how a party that owes the taxpayer at least 10 million in stolen money could be allowed to run even one candidate.