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December 1, 2008

It's Twenty Minutes Before Midnight, Eastern

And a blog site run by a commercial artist in Saskatchewan is still logging over 1.400 visits an hour.

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You stupid sonsabitches have no idea what you are about to unleash.

Posted by Kate at December 1, 2008 11:38 PM
Comments

I hope the Western premiers are reading the Clarity Act.

Posted by: Hannibal Lectern at December 1, 2008 11:50 PM

Where's Guy Fawkes when you need him?

Posted by: Buddy at December 1, 2008 11:51 PM

Word, Kate.

Posted by: The Phantom at December 1, 2008 11:53 PM

The numbers speak for themselves. Westerners will be heard - no - ARE being HEARD! We will be heard much more loudly at time goes on. RALPH GOODALE - WHERE THE HELL ARE YOU, YOU EASTERN LIBERAL ASS-KISSER?

Posted by: a different bob at December 1, 2008 11:54 PM

We really need to after Ralph Goodale on this thing. There is no way he can hide from what his Liberal party is doing to our country. Lets go after him hard!

Posted by: a different bob at December 1, 2008 11:56 PM

over 9000!

Sorry, couldn't resist (awesome internet meme)

I have to admit, I've been lurking on this site. A lot.

Posted by: allan at December 1, 2008 11:58 PM

I really feel for Western Canada. These guys will take the boots to y'all because and they won't care because they don't have representation there.

Posted by: Phil at December 2, 2008 12:02 AM

Thanks Kate...I hope you are right.

Posted by: bluetech at December 2, 2008 12:03 AM

Happy to be of service to my country, what is left (or more properly, RIGHT of it)

Will soon be a first time contributor to a political party, ever.

I may pay union dues, but it will be a cold day in hell before I ever think about that way of neanderthal thinking. The e-mail I sent Layton earlier, while it may never be read, was apt for a union hall, the only language that Wacko Jacko might understand.

This country is in serious financial trouble if the menage-a-trois get their way. It just amazes me that anybody would jump into bed with the Benedictes d'Arnold, let alone Steffi the Twit, who proudly championed his clarity act, in effect, sticking a finger in the separatistes eyes.

Hypocrites! A pox on all your houses!

Posted by: DanBC at December 2, 2008 12:03 AM

It's not just "westerners", Ontario voted mostly conservative (although not a majority).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6a/Canada2008seats.PNG

I'm also damn near sure there's a lot of liberal and NDP supporters that are pissed right off.

Posted by: allan at December 2, 2008 12:04 AM

go girl. I got your back.

Posted by: kelly at December 2, 2008 12:06 AM

Sad, sad, sad....angry, angry, angry....now we must stand up for our right for a province to become a country!

Posted by: prairie dog at December 2, 2008 12:08 AM

At this point these Ontarians support all separatists in their efforts.
West, so sad it had to come to this, but we do understand; as for the gluttons of QC good riddance and we DO blame you.
The Canada that was fought hard and won for a couple of generations ago is no longer available.
We will not be recognizing this 'occupying' government and any chance to practice civil discontent or disobedience (within the law ha ha ) will be done.

Posted by: ldd at December 2, 2008 12:11 AM

And it might include Toronto joining the revolution too:
http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_29684.aspx

Posted by: andycanuck at December 2, 2008 12:12 AM

As Stepon Dijon (Colonel Mustard) stated the "tree" of them will now be running the country. This appears to be a prediction that is a trifle premature. When da tree of dem were asked about their economic salvation solution they could only say with a certain amount of "clarity" that it would be something that was faster and also better than anything the conservatives could do. Watch out and keep your hands positioned over your butts everyone for you are in for one hell of a riding.

Posted by: uuess at December 2, 2008 12:13 AM

The time has come for those in the west to pressure Wall and Stelamch to take more than a mealy-mouthed wait-and-see approach to this.

They both need to say that they and their parties will do whatever it takes to protect the interests of their constituents from the obvious threat this coalition and the policies they plan to implement poses. They need to say that that includes putting forth a referendum on their respective province's position in Canada.

That, and only that, will grab the ROC's attention and demonstrate the danger that this coalition presents to the future of this country.

The time for reaction and Koom-bye-ya is over - our leaders in AB and SK need to be proactive before the irrepairable damage is done.

Time for Stelmach and Wall to each grow a pair.

And it goes without saying perhaps, but it will also make them massively popular in their home provinces...

Posted by: Gord Tulk at December 2, 2008 12:15 AM

lld

There are a number of ways to go about this. Many are disinvesting from Eastern Canadian business interests, there are ways to pull your money outta Canada and park it safely off-shore where the leftards can't reach it, and of course, we can get involved in creating a viable, serious separatist threat in Western Canada.

Posted by: bcf at December 2, 2008 12:17 AM

E-mail the PM or GG with your thoughts………….

pm@pm.gc.ca - if you want to e-mail Prime Minister Harper.

info@gg.ca - if you want to e-mail Madame Jean.

Do it!!

Pat

Posted by: Pat at December 2, 2008 12:22 AM

My question in all of this.. will Sask. get the $800 million extra every year for the Equalization that both Layton and Dion said we were screwed out of..????

I'm betting that it is going to cost us a lot more.. Right Ralphie "the talking head that says nothing"

Posted by: northernfarmer at December 2, 2008 12:24 AM

Sure they have an idea, Kate. They just don't give a damn.

Posted by: Shaken at December 2, 2008 12:26 AM

Where lucky to have a Blog like this. Thank you Kate.

Posted by: Revnant Dream at December 2, 2008 12:28 AM

How about we all fill out form T1213 below requesting our employers to not deduct taxes...

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pbg/tf/t1213/t1213-04e.pdf

With the intent of paying at tax season at the least maybe we can disrupt cash flow to these slimeballs. I realize it will take a lot of us.

Posted by: Happy at December 2, 2008 12:29 AM

You keep up the good work Kate!

Posted by: Matt at December 2, 2008 12:32 AM

Kate

A lyrical tribute to our times at my site...

Syncro.

Posted by: syncrodox at December 2, 2008 12:33 AM

If the Triumvirate of Immorality pulls this off, I predict a western separtist movement that will make the one in Quebec look like a great grannies tea party.

Posted by: Len Pryor at December 2, 2008 12:35 AM

Check out the GG's site:

http://www.gg.ca/menu_e.asp

Interesting that Harper requested they be out of the country this week.

Can you smell what Harper's got cookin'?

Posted by: Happy at December 2, 2008 12:44 AM

Thanks, Kate. Let's keep this groundswell of support moving. I haven't felt this angry, disgusted, sickened or (insert any suitable expletive) since the debate pile-on. We Canadians are often portrayed as inveterate letter writers by a certain well-known comedian (that Canadian Guy) so let's get the ball rolling. Write letters, sign petitions, contact radio and TV call-in shows, attend rallies and do whatever else you can think of to let these schmucks know we won't be steamrolled.

Posted by: Anne in sw ON at December 2, 2008 12:59 AM

Kate,

Only a small niche segment of Canadian society actually shares the extreme elements of your worldview. You're deluded into thinking that more people give a sh*t about your causes because you've created a home base for your kind and are constantly showered with praise by them. Some of which just want in your pants, FYI.

The pendulum is swinging the other way now. We have a Democrat in the White House and left leaning govs in both Australia and Britain to name a few. And even your own centre-right provincial government washed their hands of you recently. You're a has-been. If your blog numbers go up, it's because the leftist trends in the country are causing your dwindling minions to huddle together during the storm.

You have a high school education and your posts reflect this.

Get used to your new prime minister. Tata.

Posted by: barry at December 2, 2008 1:00 AM

Was at a golf due tonight and one very pissed off golfer had a new version to an old song, all I want for Christmas is an AK47.

Posted by: Western Canadian at December 2, 2008 1:03 AM

I have been telephoned by people, I've spoken with them at lunch, I was at a small town Saskatchewan meeting of shareholders in a thriving new feedlot. Everyone was talking about their anger and dismay at what the Liberals, NDP and Bloc are creating. EVERYONE spoke passionately about the end of Canada as Saskatchewan and Alberta need to pr4epare to leave.
At a minimum the Liberals, if they care, have guaranteed no seats west of Ontario and the NDP will lose many of their seats here. If anything like the NEP or a carbon tax to strip western money to pay for the buying of votes by the Toronto and Quebec parties occurs, all hell will break out here.
Western separatist sentiment will force the provincial government to call a referendum if they want to be re-elected. Alberta and Saskatchewan will leave Canada and will be pleased to pay the up front costs of that rather than suffered the continued economic rape of their wealth.
Canada will end and there will huge cheers here. The "Natural Governing Party" the socialists and the Quebec separatists will destroy Canada as it has existed.
I don't know whether this is their intent or whether they simply don't care. But they are moving done that road.
I for one will be glad to dump ties to Quebec and Ontario who have made much of their wealth from stealing from the West through tariffs and laws to suppress our development. NEVER AGAIN!

Posted by: Gary at December 2, 2008 1:05 AM

barry:

Obviously you have no clue what you talk of. Take a look at the voting base of Western Canada, you twit. Get and education first before spouting off at the mouth.

Posted by: postscript at December 2, 2008 1:06 AM

Hey barry, the only way your boys are getting into power here is to STEAL it. Bet that makes you proud, eh?

Posted by: The Phantom at December 2, 2008 1:08 AM

Barry

Think again.....You have no idea.

Syncro

Posted by: syncrodox at December 2, 2008 1:08 AM

It's gonna be a rough ride for citizen dion. He will go down as the man who broke up Canada (and he's not even a Cdn.). Na na na na, hey hey hey Goodbye.

Oh yeah. We'll be taking our dirty oil with us.

Posted by: johnboy at December 2, 2008 1:08 AM

Do you think this Coalition is what Danny Williams had in mind with his Anybody But Conservative (ABC) movement? If Jack is proposing names for the Coalition, that would fit!

Posted by: Ann, Toronto at December 2, 2008 1:10 AM

Is it too early to redeem our Canada Savings Bonds?

I'm worried that, being a Manitoba resident, that I won't be included in the separation of western Canada. Moving west is looking better all the time.

Posted by: Brent at December 2, 2008 1:14 AM

Do you people really believe all this stuff you say here, on this blog? I mean, it's as though you're in a bubble and you have your ears covered and are singing lalala while other people speak.

So what if you're getting a lot of hits, Kate? The left-wingers read you regularly because they want to know what's going on inside the bubble.

Posted by: the regina mom at December 2, 2008 1:23 AM

English Canadians appear to be overwhelmingly against this coalition but I heard that a poll done in Quebec showed that a majority of Quebecers were in support. Then again, the three amigos and the GG are all from Quebec so whose really surprised their. Welcome to Ontario, the dominion of Quebec.

Posted by: Phil at December 2, 2008 1:24 AM

"majority of Quebecers were in support."

If Western Canada was forced to give you a hummer every nite, you'd be supportive too.

Posted by: Manitoba Moose at December 2, 2008 1:29 AM

I honestly don't get Quebec. Every poll where English Canada is on one side they're on the other.

Good bye democracy, hello Omar Khadr.

Posted by: Phil at December 2, 2008 1:36 AM

Posted by: barry at December 2, 2008 1:00 AM

"You have a high school education and your posts reflect this.

Get used to your new prime minister. Tata."

That shade of *green* is not becoming on you, dear. You aren't going out in public wearing that, are you?

Posted by: Yoop at December 2, 2008 1:40 AM

the regina mom says: "Do you people really believe all this stuff you say here, on this blog?"

Do I believe the two scumbags and a bloc head are going to steal power because they couldn't win it fair and square? Yes.

Do I believe the GG is crooked enough and dumb enough to let them? Possibly. She certainly pads her expense account. I guess we shall see soon enough.

Do I believe this will be a Really Bad Thing for everybody? Yes. Ohhhh yes.

Do I think the Lefty trolls would cheer and high five each other while the country came apart at the seams? I don't have to think it, I remember them high fiving on 9/11/2001, same as they're doing now. Nobody died yet, so they aren't quite as excited this time.

You don't like our bubble, go back to Rabble and put up with their funky echo chamber. Smells like troll feet over there.

Posted by: The Phantom at December 2, 2008 1:48 AM
"I hope the Western premiers are reading the Clarity Act."

They aren't, so vainly hope all you want.

Posted by: Christoph at December 2, 2008 1:53 AM
"I'm also damn near sure there's a lot of liberal and NDP supporters that are pissed right off."

If by "a lot", you mean "6", I agree.

Posted by: Christoph at December 2, 2008 1:55 AM
"The time has come for those in the west to pressure Wall and Stelamch to take more than a mealy-mouthed wait-and-see approach to this."

You're dreaming.

Posted by: Christoph at December 2, 2008 1:57 AM

Thank-you for bringing us the news Kate and for giving us a place to let our views be known. The Red rag newspapers never print letters or views from anyone who is not on the slop slurper team of the flatulent freeloaders of Bolshevik Greed.

The Yukon M.P. had a big announcement in the local newspaper tonight saying he was firmly behind the coalition of the swilling. Larry Bagnel is an old hippy from Ont. or B.C. - go figure...most of the 'new Yukon' pipples are from Quebec or are wandering Dippers from Alta., Sask. or Ont. looking to make a fast buck working for the government. Larry might have misjudged his cows this time....they might be mavericks if the Three Swine in the Swill don't deliver lots of BIG bucks to the 37,000 pipples in Canada's luxury welfare fridge.

Posted by: Jema 54 at December 2, 2008 2:00 AM

No play for Messrs Gray ...

Posted by: Peter O'Donnell at December 2, 2008 2:01 AM
"Oh yeah. We'll be taking our dirty oil with us."

Dumb ass. Put explicitly, what manoeuvre units do you see as being able to protect the plains of Alberta from federal Ottawa forces or, if it comes down to it, American -- under socialist President Obama, no less?

There aren't any. It's a non-starter.

And that's in the exceedingly unlikely event you actually get Albertans -- young and old alike, not just pissant anonymous Conservative firebrands -- to secede.

And with your rampant secession talk, why am I to be as offended by this deal with the Bloc?

I hate the deal. I think it's disgraceful. I'm little short of outraged.

But you, "sir", respond with talk of secession and not Canadian unity. It's much too early for such nonsense, and you don't have the support of the population anyway.

Posted by: Christoph at December 2, 2008 2:07 AM

My dislike for what Canada is and has become started with peirre the pig and my resentment with what has taken place has been festering for the past 30 years. We have catered to Quebec and the east long enough, goodbye and good riddance. Get rid of the socialist cancer that is Quebec, pay for your utopian dream world yourselves you bloody leaches. Pray the PQ wins.

Ontario, you deserve your have not status, not only would I see you freeze in the dark, if you were starving in the gutter I would step over you and feed a stray dog on the other side. Take your god damn flag that was shoved down our throats by another liberal and shove it up your maple leaf forever ass. For those of you to young to remember not only was that flag shoved down the West's throat at the time it came with the comment that it would not have any Tory blue, just liberal red. It’s time to raise a flag and have a constitution that is the West and what Westerners stand for, hard work, common sense, self sufficiency, honesty and a true caring for your neighbors. That is the visceral hatred I feel towards you at what you have done to what was once the best Country in the world. Now I look east and all I see is a bunch of whiners and snivelers on their knees with their hands out.

Take a minute and just think what our education and medical systems alone would be like with the extra billions we send east every year.

Posted by: Western Canadian at December 2, 2008 2:09 AM

Now that the American Election is over, hatemongers of the Radical Left like Barry are bored. Their hate builds up & up & up and animal porn only satiates it so long. So they feel the need to come on here and spew their venom at Kate and all of us.

Quick joke I heard from a Canadian friend in Seattle:

Q: What's the difference between Stephane Dion and Adolf Hitler?

A: One is capable of growing a more manly moustache and is also a much better public speaker.

Posted by: Robert W. (Vancouver, BC) at December 2, 2008 2:11 AM

Ottawa forces? What the hell are you talking about Christoph? Are you threatening Alberta with force? Are you a high ranking Liberal or something? Are you Scott "pass the popcorn" Reed? The Plains of Alberta and Saskatchewan are secure and impenetrable. To get here from Ottawa you would have to either cross manitoba (highly unlikely) or by Air Canada (in which case your luggage would not get here). Good luck with your mission should you choose to accept it (I doubt it)..

It's a well known fact that people out East are lazy and unable to look after themselves in the most basic of matters. Why, I once heard that the people of Toronto had to call in the military because it snowed on them.

Just be thankful we're not coming to take back the stuff we already gave you. Keep poking us and we might.

Posted by: johnboy at December 2, 2008 2:16 AM

I totally agree, and get into it at length on my latest post.

This goes down, all hell is going to break out in western Canada.

IMHO, this will be the final straw.

So be it.

Posted by: Springer at December 2, 2008 2:27 AM

Barry, please explain why you use personal insults against those whom your opinions differ from?

This was something very evident in the recent US election and is now something occuring here unfortunately.

Posted by: DionNonMerci at December 2, 2008 2:36 AM

Actually, Phil, the NDP stands to lose some seats in B.C. over their selling us out.

I hope he pays dearly for it.

Posted by: chutzpahticular at December 2, 2008 2:46 AM
"Ottawa forces? What the hell are you talking about Christoph?"

The Canadian Forces.

Besides, you don't have anywhere near the support to put off a legal "Clarity Act" style secession nor a traditional variety. You're all wet.

Go home, play with yourself, and dream of independence, 'boy.

"This was something very evident in the recent US election and is now something occuring here unfortunately."

Right. Personal insults in Canada started in late 2008.

Posted by: Christoph at December 2, 2008 2:52 AM

Barry wrote to Kate: "The pendulum is swinging the other way now. We have a Democrat in the White House and left leaning govs in both Australia and Britain to name a few. And even your own centre-right provincial government washed their hands of you recently. You're a has-been. If your blog numbers go up, it's because the leftist trends in the country are causing your dwindling minions to huddle together during the storm.

You have a high school education and your posts reflect this.

Get used to your new prime minister. Tata."

Hhhhmmmmmmmmm.....

Posted by: barry at December 2, 2008 1:00 AM


Is that Barry Hussein Obama?


Posted by: chutzpahticular at December 2, 2008 2:59 AM

The parasites in Ottawa have no idea of the anger they are creating out in the Western colonies. Paraphrasing from a movie script is never admirable at the best of times but the words of Russell Crowe in Gladiator seem appropriate now. A people should know when they are defeated. Gentlemen, at my signal unleash hell!

Looney in Lotusland

Posted by: Looney in Lotusland at December 2, 2008 3:17 AM

interesting - I have tuned into your blog so many times now - not interested in your pants as a previous idiot suggests (being 71) - you hit on so many things that make Saskatchewan/Alberta the best place in the world to be - keep up the great work
as for the "coalition" , well we are now in for a truly rough ride, but perhaps at the end of the day, we can form a country devoid of these liberal, communist, quebec pit bulls , and truly set up a place to lead the world by example

Posted by: canuckledragger at December 2, 2008 3:22 AM

Christopher, you're an ass and the brilliant thing is that you don't even see it.

QC separatists supporting the coalition of evil is apparently all good with you.

However you seem to think that Western Separatists are bastards.

The devil you know, eh? We had a word for your ilk in school, "fool".

Cheers,
lance

Posted by: lance at December 2, 2008 3:26 AM

Christoph, I'm not going to get into the middle of your personal battle with the other fellow but may I ask what part of Canada you live? Might it be Ontario?

I currently live in Vancouver and was born & raised here. But I've also spent years each living in Manitoba, Ontario, & Quebec. Through it all I think I have a pretty good perspective on the regional differences of various Canadians.

One thing I understand for sure is that if a given geographic group of people feel disenfranchised for too long a period of time then they feel no particular loyalty toward their central government. And frankly, why should they?

The separatists that we now call "Americans" had very good reason to break off from Britain. The different peoples of Yugoslavia had good reason to split apart too. And so did the various former Eastern Bloc countries have solid reasons for gaining their independence.

I look at Canada's Confederation much like a marriage, although perhaps it's more of a polygamous marriage with one husband and 10 wives! :-) Anyhow, many here in the West have very legitimate and sincere reasons for feeling that Ontario & Quebec have taken them for granted for much too long.

For you, perhaps this current situation is strictly about 3 parties fighting a battle with 1 other party. There is that, of course. But it has not escaped the attention of all of us in the West with small-c or large-C conservative leanings that the current actions are set to remove a democratically elected Western PM by 3 fellows solely from Ontario & Quebec. And even the 2 "backup" Liberals are strictly Toronto-centric.

If you'd like a hockey analogy, imagine that all of the referees in the NHL hailed from the Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal corridor. Every time the Vancouver Canucks, Calgary Flames, & Edmonton Oilers played one of their eastern counterparts they would lose and the officiating was always suspect. If you were a supporter of one of the Western teams, it surely wouldn't be too long until you cried foul!

So I'm hoping you'll be able to have a little more empathy and understanding that we in the West very much feel that we are being kicked in the teeth by all of this and our votes have been taken away on a whim. What kind of sane person wouldn't be very upset about that? Sentiments of Western Separation will only grow & grow the longer the perception of unfairness continues.

Posted by: Robert W. (Vancouver, BC) at December 2, 2008 3:28 AM

Robert W., you don't have support of sufficient members of your population (certainly not in British Columbia) to pull it off.

You don't have enough population to pull it off.

If it came down to it, central Canada would crush any rebellion in the West, if their back was against a wall. The vast majority -- and probably all -- of the military would remain loyal. So would most of the police forces.

If they didn't, the United States wouldn't stand idly by while Canada dismembered itself.

You live in a city that's mostly leftists anyhow.

Posted by: Christoph at December 2, 2008 3:35 AM
"QC separatists supporting the coalition of evil is apparently all good with you."

No, you jackass -- it is the other way around.

I oppose Bloc Quebecois separatists and support the Conservative government and Harper in particular.

However, it is a reality that Alberta cannot be defended from the east without significant manoeuvre units and it has none. The population is sparse. It's mostly plains with rich energy resources. Canada's rail system is extensive and was quite adequate to position forces to shut down our last rebellion.

Now it's more extensive, with air transport and road transport as options, plus almost certain assistance by the American government, if only behind the scenes logistically, if required.

You drink the cool-aid here with fellow conservatives, self-selected for their political passion by their willingness to comment on a fairly hard-right Western-centric blog, and you think this a successful movement makes.

Why is Quebec separatism more of a realistic threat?

There is an answer.

One, because they do have a distinctive culture and language, although they also have a Canadian heritage and I wish them to remain in Canada.

Also, because they have over 30% of Canada's population, and a good percentage of Canada's officer corps would likely defect to their side if necessary.

So while it's anything but certain they would succeed in secession, they might.

Such is not the case with Alberta. For example. Nor with the great power of Saskatchewan.

The other reason I oppose such talk, is you're discussing treason. And you'll be surprised how numerically few fellow conservatives will lay it on the line to be traitors.

I would only consider considering it not an act of treason if a majority of the Western provinces' population clearly expressed their will and supported it: They don't. Not even close.

And practically, it would still fail.

Why the HELL do you think we should beat the Liberals over the head for getting in bed with the Bloc while we sit around here discussing treason and secession?

You'll notice our Prime Minister, Stephen Harper, doesn't say this fetid crap. He'd rightly boot any minister who did. We have a strong moral position, and you just want to throw it away, you irresponsible childish fool!

Posted by: Christoph at December 2, 2008 3:57 AM

Further: And you call me one?

You're so stupid you can't even see my argument is against separatism, not Western separatists.

"However you seem to think that Western Separatists are bastards."

And, yes, as a Canadian, I think separatists are bastards.

Posted by: Christoph at December 2, 2008 4:02 AM

the west will be represented by Ralph Goodale and Hedy Fry. the mind boggles.

Posted by: cal2 at December 2, 2008 4:11 AM

My question is how will all 3 Opposition "leaders" fit into 24 Sussex Drive.
This coalition stinks and I dont like it.

Posted by: mike at December 2, 2008 4:40 AM

I like the bluntness of the Times of India:

Curiously, the man (Dion) who will be Canada's new prime minister had led his Liberal Party to its worst-ever defeat in decades, reducing its tally from 95 to 77 in parliament.

Posted by: justineTrueDoh at December 2, 2008 4:42 AM

Christoph - please read 'The Clarity Act' copied and claimed by Deyawn. (The Prime Minister actually wrote it) West can move if 50% + 1 want out! Ding Dong Deyawn has only one claim to fame - Clarity Act. It would be legal and it would be bloodless.

Posted by: Jema 54 at December 2, 2008 5:02 AM

the difference between Quebec and Alberta is that one whine and complains and demands money from the government for its survival. It threatens seperation a lot.

The other province, well, its money get taken away to be distributed among all the other provinces who have failed to do what it has done itself- be self-sufficient.

Not only do I think Alberta will seperate from Canada over this, they have the means to do so.

I'm kinda curious what shape that will leave the resot of canada, if they wont be able to access 'the cash cow"

As an Ontarioan, I support Alberta 100%. Do what you need to. And know that not everyone from the east is an idiot

Posted by: tori at December 2, 2008 5:06 AM

the difference between Quebec and Alberta is that one whine and complains and demands money from the government for its survival. It threatens seperation a lot.

The other province, well, its money get taken away to be distributed among all the other provinces who have failed to do what it has done itself- be self-sufficient.

Not only do I think Alberta will seperate from Canada over this, they have the means to do so.

I'm kinda curious what shape that will leave the resot of canada, if they wont be able to access 'the cash cow"

As an Ontarioan, I support Alberta 100%. Do what you need to. And know that not everyone from the east is an idiot

Posted by: tori at December 2, 2008 5:07 AM

Wow, so much hatred on this forum. I thought Conservatives represented neighborly love, common sense, etc.

Posted by: Sal at December 2, 2008 5:24 AM

I live in Ontario. I vote Conservative. I donate to the Conservatives. I dug deep into my pocket during the last election. I'll be digging deeper now. As in, I'll max out my political contribution limit for this year in the next few weeks. And come January, I'll start early and give often.
Due to section 13.1 of the HRC, I can't post what I think about the Lib/NDP/Bloc coalition. I'll just let my money speak for me...

Posted by: Grumpy Old Man at December 2, 2008 5:24 AM

We have never lived under a truly free market system. Whenever regulations are removed to achieve a more open free market system the more likely it is that capitalism undergoes a serious crisis, like this one and many in the past. The 'free market' is a misnomer. If it was actually free it would collapse almost instantaneously under its own built-in illogical assumptions.

What we have now is Socialism for the rich, and free market capitalism for everyone else. When industry is making money and doing well they don't share the wealth around. But as soon as they start to go under, share holders (who are the biggest welfare bums in all of society because they DO NOT WORK BUT MAKE HUGE AMOUNTS OF CASH BY MAKING DECISIONS THAT HURT SOCIETY IN GENERAL) and CEOs stick out their soft smooth never-seen-work hands and demand money from the hard working tax payer.
We are currently living in a horrible one-sided unsustainable version of socialism that is bad for the majority of people.

I think we should discard this horrible version of socialism and go for a full version of it. Imagine, Canadians of all stripes and income levels, actually OWNING the great wealth of natural resources Canada has.
No, what run of the mill Conservatives want is to continue having our resources owned by an extremely small portion of the population. Yay, way to go!
Conservatism is dead in the water! Time for a new approach.

Posted by: Sal at December 2, 2008 5:43 AM

My own visitations yesterday lept by over 100 compared to the previous day and compared to several days over the past week. And my visits post-midnight, they nearly doubled as well, compared to normal visitations during those hours.

Bloody good boost in visitations. And it all began right after my own big, call-it-as-I-see-it post (and my dropping a link thereto in the comments herein) blasting those frigging Soviet Canuckistani Bolshevist Revolutionaries!

I see folks in your comments appearing all of a sudden again whom I hadn't seen herein in quite some time, including a staunch Alberta nationalist I know well who pretty much dropped out of the blogosphere since shortly after the Tories' first election to power, apparently seeing no need thereafter to push separation...

Indeed, those absent-minded "progressives" have no inkling what they're doing, nor what crap they're causing.

There are serious implications not only for the economy (which they're already apparently hurting and will continue to hurt even if they heap billions in previously-condemned-by-them corporate welfare all over the place) but also for the very future of Confederation...

Their draconian move is uncalled for. There is no emergency, no crisis, no catastrophe. No WMD, no proof, no case made, no smoking gun of necessity, for their war on democracy (which they've proven they see as something inconvenient and which they now seek to subvert so as to impose their hardcore socialist/social reengineering agenda against our will). They just hate the prudent, non-panicky, steady, stoic management of the Harper Conservatives and want to impose the most hard-left-wing regime ever suffered by Canada... they'll make the Trudeau epoch look mild by comparison, even though their putsch will not (it simply cannot, for it's fatally flawed and on its deathbed from the very beginning) last long at all.

Beyond the multibilliondollar band-aid boondoggle debt ballooner, we can expect them to also engage in a massive, revolutionary social-reengineering program to try to get as much Hard-Left crap done as possible before the Conservatives are returned with what surely, after all this disgusting Hard-Left crap, will be a majority after the next election.

And all this is final concrete proof that the Liberal Party of Canada is Hard-Left, not "centrist", nor "moderate". They've whored themselves out to the Hard-Left NDP and the anti-Canada separatist Bloc, which is led by an actual, real-life Communist, because they don't care about democracy anymore and will do whatever it takes to impose their impatient crap agenda onto us against their will.

Curse the bastards!

Posted by: Canadian Sentinel at December 2, 2008 5:48 AM

Posted by: James at December 2, 2008 5:50 AM

We have never lived under a truly free market system. Whenever regulations are removed to achieve a more open free market system the more likely it is that capitalism undergoes a serious crisis, like this one and many in the past. The 'free market' is a misnomer. If it was actually free it would collapse almost instantaneously under its own built-in illogical assumptions.

What we have now is Socialism for the rich, and free market capitalism for everyone else. When industry is making money and doing well they don't share the wealth around. But as soon as they start to go under, share holders (who are the biggest welfare bums in all of society because they DO NOT WORK BUT MAKE HUGE AMOUNTS OF CASH BY MAKING DECISIONS THAT HURT SOCIETY IN GENERAL) and CEOs stick out their soft smooth never-seen-work hands and demand money from the hard working tax payer.
We are currently living in a horrible one-sided unsustainable version of socialism that is bad for the majority of people.

I think we should discard this horrible version of socialism and go for a full version of it. Imagine, Canadians of all stripes and income levels, actually OWNING the great wealth of natural resources Canada has.
No, what run of the mill Conservatives want is to continue having our resources owned by an extremely small portion of the population. Yay, way to go!
Conservatism is dead in the water! Time for a new approach.

Posted by: Sal at December 2, 2008 6:07 AM

I wonder how many Libs would have sat at home or switched to the cons,

had they known they were voting for a coalition with the seperatists.

One thing is certain: the Liberals will fight like hell to deny the voting public the opportunity to tell us.

Posted by: biff at December 2, 2008 6:07 AM

Ambitions for separation will inevitably be put on the back-burner by the BLOC. With a coalition government we might just see some progressive change in Canada, and copy some of Quebec's policies - like having a day care program where everyone, regardless of income, pays under $10 a day to have regulated competent licensed day care workers. Oh, the horror, the horror, of having licensed well paid day care workers looking after your children, still only getting paid about a third of what an auto mechanic earns per hour.

Imagine that, regardless of income, you or your sons and daughters would not be saddled with debt for years to come due to outrageous tuition costs. In Scotland, university tuition is free and they are less wealthy then Canada. In Canada, the wealth that should be circulating through out the economy is, instead, horded at the top of the income bracket - where it doesn't do much of anything besides funding the Conservative party.
It is becoming increasingly clear that Neo-Conservatism is a dated ideology that emerged in the early 70's and peaked in the 80's with Reagan, Thatcher and Mulroney. Harper was educated by this stuff and passionately believes in it as still a relevant ideology.
It is a new day, where climate change denier dinosaurs like Harper and others in his party are disposed from power of any significance, to make way for new intelligent voices with new solutions to be heard.

Let us raise our glasses and toast, for a new day is upon us; One where unity and solidarity override ideological and personal divisions to come together to find practical solutions to the enormous tasks at hand.

Posted by: Sal at December 2, 2008 6:32 AM

hey sal...take care of your own frakin kids

also...whaddya got against mechanics? don't drink the right brand of shar-dough-nay?

Posted by: rzr at December 2, 2008 7:00 AM

Sal doesn't appear to understand the concept of "public finance."  This is not a leftist failing — I know leftists who get how governments raise and spend revenue.  Sal's still stuck in "Daddy" mode: "Daddy, can I have a bunch of money?"

Remember, Sal, it's always a "glorious day" when you get to spend someone else's money.  It's not so glorious when you're the one with the gun to your head being told to hand it over or else.  That's called "theft."

Theft's bad enough in good times.  These aren't good times (so the minions of the Left keep telling us).


Garth

Posted by: Garth Wood at December 2, 2008 7:09 AM

As a tax payer we are shareholders in the wealth of this country, if we owned the resources. Theft is when a bunch of wealthy elites take control of the country's wealth and use it for their own greedy ends. THIS IS THEFT! Canada's resources belong to all of Canadians, not just a very tiny wealthy elite, as is the current situation. And because of this, they will always act in their own best interests, not Canadians. They are the real traitors in this country!
Some of the bloggers on here are probably getting paid by the very well financed corporate-backed Conservative party to spread misinformation, lies and distraction. So the Irvings don't drink 'Shar-do-nay'? Gimme a break for cryin' out loud.
The game is up! Neo-Conservatives can't appeal to the so-called average beer-swilling working Joe anymore, because the average person wants intelligent progressive sane-minded forward-looking non-dinosaur-like people in power - whether they drink Shar-do-nay or not.
So Italians are 'elitist snobs' because they like to drink wine? Come one, please! This strategy worked through-out most of the eighties and even into the nineties, but I'm afraid the very wealthy elitist-backed Conservative Party have to find another way to appeal to the average working Joe - which I'm one of by the way. That strategy is old and done as dinner. It was a good gig for them for while: the wealthy elite brainwashing a large section of the masses that each of their interests coincide, therefore securing there large vote.
The difference between Socialism and Capitalism is that under a socialist system the tax payer OWNS the fishing rod he uses every day to fish to eat. While under Capitalism, the capitalist RENTS the fishing rod to the poor average working Joe (i.e. the tax payer) indefinitely. Of course, they would never ever want to give up 'ownership' of the fishing rod to the fisherman. My God, they may just have to stop having tax-payer subsidized fancy 'business' lunches at expensive restaurants and, gasp, actually work for a living instead of being a parasite and living off the avails of others hard work. Socialism is actually more financially sound for the average person then capitalism ever was. You invest in the future, not in the next 'quarter earnings.' And investing in people (i.e. education, health, quality childcare, sound infrastructure, etc) is actually financially prudent in the long run, and ethically the right thing to do at the same time.)
And some of you bloggers are the foolish foot-soldiers ready to battle to the death (or at least Western separation) to defend your right to be totally fleeced and scammed by these economic parasites we call capitalists or the wealthy elite that are running this country into the ground. They are laughing all the way to their sunny vacation homes and luxury goodies.
The government should fear the people. The people shouldn't be fearful of the government. Fear is the oil of neo-conservative dinosaur thinking.
It time for the government to fear the people again. WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT!
BTW, I actually prefer a $10 bottle of red then shar-do-nay, or a good cold lager on tap. Perhaps a scotch on the rocks.

Posted by: Sal at December 2, 2008 7:48 AM

Sal I doubt you and I will join together and start chanting and holding hands anytime soon. Stephen Harper is my Prime Minister, not these three stooges.

I don't think you realize how angry I am. In fact, I can't ever remember being as angry as I am right now. I will not now, nor ever acknowledge these socialsts as having a legitimate right to the job of running Canada.

As far as I am concerned war has been declared on me. I will repeat, my Prime Minister is Harper until such time as he is defeated in an election not a coup.

I don't care about the legality of it and I'm tired of socialist bullshit.

Christoph I've been reading you for a while. You can go to hell too. If you think the West could never separate, it's you that dreams. We are the people that lived in sod huts in winter, who broke the land. We have a strength that guys like you only dream about. You imagine yourself to be oh so clever and enlightened. Great, hold on to that dream and I'll hold on to mine for a free West. Now stfu, I'm sick of reading what any socialist has to say.

Posted by: A Storm is coming at December 2, 2008 7:53 AM

Vai il fungulo, Sal. Take it back to the Daily Socialist Worker's web site, culo, instead of going off-topic here.

Posted by: andycanuck at December 2, 2008 7:56 AM

"the elitist-backed Conservative Party have to find another way to appeal to the average working Joe"

you mean an alternative to winning elections, of course?

Posted by: rzr at December 2, 2008 7:57 AM

Chrisph... Where do you get any suggestion the Canadian forces will remain loyal to this coup? Don't they have an obligation to protect the constitution and rights of citizens?

If the Forces are loyal to their oaths, they would march on Ottawa once the coup occurs and restore the democratically elected government or force the GG to call an election.

Posted by: Ryan at December 2, 2008 8:00 AM

Power is taken not given, how it's taken is decided by the taker.

This time around you have crossed the line you ELB's, eastern liberal bastards/bitches, force is now an option. Just remember, if the oil doesn't flow neither does the money and then you eastern bastards will starve in the dark. As a vowed Western Separatist am I unhappy with what has taken place, NO, not in the least, this turn of events helps the West for two very important reasons. One, it will wake the people of the West up and hopefully make them understand that even with a majority because of the electoral imbalance in favor of the east meaningful and lasting control of our destiny will always be in the hands of someone else. Secondly, and most importantly, in waking up the West it is now possible to start down the road to separation.

.

Posted by: Western Canadian at December 2, 2008 8:01 AM

An easterner here, Toronto no less. I'm aghast at whats happening here. I despise this coup attempt.

Questions;
Will Harper prorogue..?
Will the GG let him prorogue if he desires it...? Will there be any advantage to prorogueing or will this just delay the inevitable..?
Can Harper still appoint Senators..? (might as well at this point..though i liked Harpers plan to change the senate)

Regards

Posted by: Agent Smith at December 2, 2008 8:04 AM

And a great leader Harper is, bringing the country into an unnecessary crisis. Hell, he is even a great fan of Bush, that great leader who can't even speak english correctly and sunk the American economy by:
a) starting a war based on lies that is costing Americans trillions of dollars. Real financial 'conservative' financial prudence there, boy.
b) legislating bank policies that were completing illogical and unsustainable - all for greedy corporate backers that in it for their own interests - and now come looking for tax payer hand-outs.

Harper is not the right person to be leading this country at this time...or any time. He is an extremist that has views that belong to the dust bin of history and are incompatible to the realty of the present.

And please...more cliches in your criticism of my views.

May I suggest some:

socialist hordes
hand in your pocket
daddy, i want money
vegetarian gay-loving beer-hatin' chardonnay-lovin' europe-worshipping easterner

Posted by: Sal at December 2, 2008 8:10 AM

Try to take part in a "Rally for Canada" event near you.

see RallyforCanada.ca

Posted by: PhilM at December 2, 2008 8:12 AM

Yes, rally for Canada (the 67 % who didn't want the Conservatives in government) and support democracy.

Majority rule!

Support democracy and let the people rule.

JOIN THE COALTION!

Posted by: Sal at December 2, 2008 8:17 AM

Arrrrggghhhh.

The dumbassedry!  It burns!

And here I'd thought I'd left behind the naive, sophomoric, tendentious, greedy and envious worldview of Socialism 0.01 when I graduated from Uni.  Apparently not.

Oh well, "we are the government."  And people who band together to produce something that none of us could produce individually (computers, communications networks, shipping, modern medicine, aircraft, roads, automobiles, and so forth ad infinitum) are just "thieves."

Everybody got that?  Anybody wanna buy one of "Sal's" unicorns, or just take one?  Remember, it's not theft so long as you really, really want it!


Garth

Posted by: Garth Wood at December 2, 2008 8:26 AM

cliche: noun; notion or phrase with predictable or obvious qualities; derv.-from the latin "cli" (to wear on t-shirt) comb w/ span-am proper prenom "Che"; syn-Sal-like

Posted by: rzr at December 2, 2008 8:36 AM

Why doesn,t PM Harper just take the economic update off the order paper.So the money bills are gone and the opposition has nothing to vote against.

Posted by: bert at December 2, 2008 8:37 AM

Why doesn,t PM Harper just take the economic update off the order paper.So the money bills are gone and the opposition has nothing to vote against.Then he can just make them wait for the budget in January and add the economic update to the budget.And Sal your an ass,no 67% voted for a coalition.ZERO percent voted for this coalition.

Posted by: bert at December 2, 2008 8:40 AM

I read this years ago on the first page of a book I was reading and it has stuck with these some 40 or 50 years but I have searched the web to find the author to no avail:

"Democracy comes first not through the ballot box but from the cartridge box".

If anyone knows the author, I would like to know who it is.

Although I'm not suggesting insurrection, Dumb, Dumber and Dumberer are certainly pushing Western patience to the brink.

Posted by: Jim in Calgary at December 2, 2008 8:53 AM

My son was born in Edmonton, AB. When the West secedes...will you allow any of us "Easterners" to settle out west. My four years (94-98) in AB were the most eye-opening. People were optimistic and very entrepreneurial...so different from NS, NB and Windsor, ON where I grew up. That's the kind of people, attitude and milieu in which I'd like my kids to be raised. Where the only thing that limits your potential is your desire and your willingness to work for it. I haven't seen that anywhere else in Canada--and I've lived in two Maritime provinces, Quebec, Ontario, BC and the NWT (before Nunavut)as well as AB.

I had to leave because I'm in the military--but I'm coming close to retirement (25 yrs goes by fast).

favill

Posted by: favill at December 2, 2008 8:54 AM

Really getting frustrated and, yes, pissed off at all this talk of 67% voted against the CPC. Sure if you count the 7 or so other parties and independants in the mix. You want to play that kind of numbers game then perhaps we should go to a STRICTLY two party system. Then there would be no more of this silly talk. As has been pointed out repeatedly, these goofs couldn't get elected to classroom monitor, never mind PM. The only way in was through the back door.

If you long winded types would take the time to read the URL, it says COMMENTS, not monologue or soliloque.

I really do have to admire the lefties that show up from time to time and impress us with their tolerance to a dissenting political view. Sarc off. Show some respect for the hostess and her guests.

Posted by: Olde Spice at December 2, 2008 8:59 AM

I know that this runs against PMSH's grain but he should fill as the vacant Senate seats right now. He should also make his appointment to the Supreme Court final. This the kind of thing that puts teeth to defiance.

Posted by: a different bob at December 2, 2008 9:01 AM

favill - come on down! Glad to have you. You are a breath of fresh air. You do realize though that by leaving eastern Canada you will be bringing down the collective IQ out there by about 25%.

Posted by: a different bob at December 2, 2008 9:05 AM

When I look at the photo posted one thing strikes me. It sure looks to me as they shake hands Jack is the leader. From the photos Jack is in charge, not Iggy, not Dion.

Posted by: Speedy at December 2, 2008 9:14 AM

Folks keep dropping in to this site to get a good education.

Posted by: dolly at December 2, 2008 9:16 AM

Speedy. Good catch. layton is the one who will be driving this bus. Dion is such a hapless child in all this. He reminds me of a schoolyard nerd that suddenly finds himself invited to the cool kids party. He will do anything they tell him to stay there.

Posted by: johnboy at December 2, 2008 9:34 AM

Petition to our Provincial Government

Whereas, we the undersigned citizens of Western Canada, desire to escape the long-standing grievances which we have experienced by reason of the nation of Canada at the hands of its government at Ottawa;

And whereas we have considered after a long period of serious reflection, and every reasonable effort at accommodation and co-operation, that these long-standing grievances do not exist for mere light, transitory or partisan reasons, but are indelibly imposed on the nature and fabric of the Ottawa government and will never be remedied, no matter how often we compromise to suit its needs;

And whereas we have concluded that the grievances are so serious and permanent as to be no longer tolerable because they tax us without benefit or real representation, they oppress us with unnecessary laws and destroy our freedom beyond endurance;

Therefore we are resolved to seek to achieve a greater and more perfect unity in a nation of our own, chosen by us in our own referendum in each Western Canadian province when a majority of us so desire;

And whereas the Government at Ottawa has, through its own act entitled “An Act to give Effect to the Requirement for Clarity as set out in the opinion of the Supreme Court of Canada in the Quebec Secession Reference” and passed in the 2nd session of the Thirty-Sixth Parliament and assented to on June 29th, 2000 A.D.;

And whereas by this Act, the right of self-determination by any province is affirmed if the government of any province of Canada consults its population by referendum on any issue and it is entitled to formulate the wording of its referendum question;

And whereas the said Act requires both a clear question and a clear majority;

And whereas we the undersigned desire clarity to be established on both issues;

We, the undersigned citizens, hereby petition and demand of our provincial government as follows:

(1.) That immediately upon this petition being signed and delivered to the Premier by 10% of the population who voted in the last provincial election, the following question shall be put to all the electors of our provinces by a general referendum within 90 days of the ratification of this number of signatories to this petition by the Chief Electoral Officer of our province;

(2.) That to satisfy section 1(1) of the aforesaid Act, we hereby demand that the government of our province, in our legislative assembly, forthwith upon receipt of this petition duly signed by us, table in the legislative assembly, the following referendum question for consideration by the House of Commons at Ottawa, and thereafter put the following question to the people of our province for consideration in a referendum:

“Question: Do you desire our province to cease to be a part of Canada and become an independent sovereign nation state?”

(3.) That to satisfy the terms of Section 2(1) of the aforesaid act, our provincial government ratify, and we declare, that a clear majority shall consist of the number of 55% of all those persons who vote in the referendum to be held pursuant to section 1 hereof;

(4.) That the legislative assembly of our province formally adopt and enact the terms of this petition with no unnecessary modifications, to achieve the spirit and intent of this resolution and petition, which is to clearly express a clear majority in favour of secession of our province from Confederation as soon as legally possible.

We the undersigned free men and women of Western Canada hereby declare our solemn oath that we shall persevere by all peaceful means to escape the political economic and social oppression of the unjust system of government created by Canada and to create our own new nation by the democratic process of a constitutional convention for the creation of a nation, for the freedom of our descendants, and the preservation of our land and heritage and to this end we pledge our best efforts and our most sacred honour.

Name (Print Clearly) Address (& Postal Code) Signature
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

Return petition for assembly and delivery to:
Western Canada Concept at P.O. Box 101, 255 Menzies Street, Victoria, B.C. V8V 2G6
For progress reports on the petition, check WCC website at: HYPERLINK "http://www.westcan.org" www.westcan.org

Posted by: Joe Molnar at December 2, 2008 9:35 AM

In the cold, non globally warmed light of morning here, I have to laugh at the Lefties coming trolling in here all puffed with excitement. After a serious sh1t-kicking at the polls, their team is making a power play! They could WIN! Winning is everything to the Lefties, they lie and cheat and steal to win. In fact, it seems they prefer lying, cheating and stealing, they certainly weren't this excited during the election.

Christoph for example has already called out the Army in his mind, at the first suggestion somebody might defy the expressed will of the Left. It never fails to take one's breath away, how fast these "pacifist" types are to call out the military to get their way.

Christoph, not to burst your militaristic bubble or anything, but the entire Canadian Forces from the tippy top general to the lowest plug sitting in the last guard house is about 60,000 men. More than half of whom are officers, btw. I'm pretty sure they could take Brantford away from an uncooperative populace, but not Hamilton. Or Ft. McMurray. Plus, all their stuff is in Ashcanistan.

Reality check Christoph, the Canadian Forces with the whole hearted backing of Canada AND the USA AND Europe has been unable to fully secure Kandahar province against a rag tag bunch of illiterate medieval religious zealots called the Taliban. In fact YOU have been one of the loudest saying we should "bring the boys home" because its too hard.

This is not a failure of the Canadian Forces, this is a measure of how hard it is to dig out and kill a bunch of determined men from a frightened population.

Imagine now everybody west of Ontario telling Ottawa to go pound salt. Educated, scary Canadians instead of goofy terrorists.

This assumes Canadian soldiers would all go along with firing on Canadian civilians for resisting the edicts of an illegitimate junta of the Left, of course. I'm sure there are some "just following orders" robots who would, there always are. But not 60,000 of 'em. Maybe 60 or so. The stupid ones from the guard house most likely.

This is why we call you a Leftard, Christoph. Because you believe in magical powers.

And Sal, higher royalties on "natural resources" aka oil? Yeah baby that's what Canadians want! More taxes! Crush those corporations, nationalize the lot! Central planning is soooo successful everywhere else in the world, we want it here!

That's why Taliban Jack has 37 seats in the House, and why he's busy stealing power instead of winning it in an election. 308 ridings contested Sal, 37 victories. That's a mandate?

Communist!

Posted by: The Phantom at December 2, 2008 9:43 AM

In the cold, non globally warmed light of morning here, I have to laugh at the Lefties coming trolling in here all puffed with excitement. After a serious sh1t-kicking at the polls, their team is making a power play! They could WIN! Winning is everything to the Lefties, they lie and cheat and steal to win. In fact, it seems they prefer lying, cheating and stealing, they certainly weren't this excited during the election.

Christoph for example has already called out the Army in his mind, at the first suggestion somebody might defy the expressed will of the Left. It never fails to take one's breath away, how fast these "pacifist" types are to call out the military to get their way.

Christoph, not to burst your militaristic bubble or anything, but the entire Canadian Forces from the tippy top general to the lowest plug sitting in the last guard house is about 60,000 men. More than half of whom are officers, btw. I'm pretty sure they could take Brantford away from an uncooperative populace, but not Hamilton. Or Ft. McMurray. Plus, all their stuff is in Ashcanistan.

Reality check Christoph, the Canadian Forces with the whole hearted backing of Canada AND the USA AND Europe has been unable to fully secure Kandahar province against a rag tag bunch of illiterate medieval religious zealots called the Taliban. In fact YOU have been one of the loudest saying we should "bring the boys home" because its too hard.

This is not a failure of the Canadian Forces, this is a measure of how hard it is to dig out and kill a bunch of determined men from a frightened population.

Imagine now everybody west of Ontario telling Ottawa to go pound salt. Educated, scary Canadians instead of goofy terrorists.

This assumes Canadian soldiers would all go along with firing on Canadian civilians for resisting the edicts of an illegitimate junta of the Left, of course. I'm sure there are some "just following orders" robots who would, there always are. But not 60,000 of 'em. Maybe 60 or so. The stupid ones from the guard house most likely.

This is why we call you a Leftard, Christoph. Because you believe in magical powers.

And Sal, higher royalties on "natural resources" aka oil? Yeah baby that's what Canadians want! More taxes! Crush those corporations, nationalize the lot! Central planning is soooo successful everywhere else in the world, we want it here!

That's why Taliban Jack has 37 seats in the House, and why he's busy stealing power instead of winning it in an election. 308 ridings contested Sal, 37 victories. That's a mandate?

Communist!

Posted by: The Phantom at December 2, 2008 9:45 AM

Christophe,
With your Stalinist attitude it is easy yo see why your ilk wanted to steal the guns of Canadians. So your Red army could easily roll over their colonials in the West and gather their loot!
Are you sure you got them all?
Jake

Posted by: Jake at December 2, 2008 9:46 AM

Christophe,
With your Stalinist attitude it is easy yo see why your ilk wanted to steal the guns of Canadians. So your Red army could easily roll over their colonials in the West and gather their loot!
Are you sure you got them all?
Jake

Posted by: Jake at December 2, 2008 9:46 AM

Sal: "Ambitions for separation will inevitably be put on the back-burner by the BLOC"

You don't really think Quebec ever had any intention of separating, do you? Think about it - they've been whining about it for 40 years and have done nothing to actually, uh, separate. Their whole schtick has been based on extortion to get goodies from the rest of us and nothing more. We have been well and truly played.

Posted by: Kathryn at December 2, 2008 10:05 AM

sal: "the wealth that should be circulating through out the economy is"

Unless the wealth is kept under a mattress, it IS circulating through the economy. Investments are circulation, savings accounts are circulation, spending is circulation.

Quebec has cheap, subsidized daycare because they get the money from the have provinces - they certainly couldn't afford it if they had to foot the bill themselves.

If you want affordable daycare, tuition or anything else, give this a thought - tax freedom day in Canada was June 20 this year. That means every level of government took almost 50% of your earnings, my earnings and everyone else's. If they didn't take so much, you would keep more money, goods and services would cost less and you would find everything more affordable. Getting more money from other Canadians (and that's where money from the government comes from), to pay for your goodies is self-defeating. You will never be able to afford them.

Posted by: Kathryn at December 2, 2008 10:23 AM

Well of course Christoph, the truth is there aren't that many Liberal and NDP supporters in Canada. The Libs and the NDP don't have the combined weight of the elected Conservatives. The "coalition" is illegitimate. After all only a few short weeks ago 75% of Canadians voted specifically against Dion as Prime Minister and the Nanos poll only taken a few days ago show he is at the bottom when it comes to leadership qualities. But then I guess that is what socialism is all about, eh? The lowest common denominator...and you fit that bill to a 't', Comrade Christoph.

Hey Christoph...if you have a pair, why not call for another election? Or do you take you orders from Hugo Chavez?

Posted by: John Luft at December 2, 2008 10:30 AM

Greatest socialist invention: the soup kitchen. If Canadians don't push back hard on this attempted hijacking of our democracy there will be a need for many more ladles.

Maybe Soup Kitchen Sal will get a job after all.

Posted by: Martin B. at December 2, 2008 11:00 AM

Those "stupid sonsabitches" seem to be pretty oblivious that they are facing an invitation to a party.

Neckties will be provided at the door...

Posted by: oatmealeatincanuck at December 2, 2008 11:07 AM

Folks, why waste good organising/canvassing space responding to morons like Christoph? There are only two things to say to him

(1) You are right, we don't currently have the support of the majority of Westerners, and
(2) Things change, boyo.

That is where we come in. He says nothing whatsoever substantive. He appears to be hot for Federalist jihad, but I'll bet he's never fired a shot in anger, nor held a buddy as he died in his arms from shrapnel wounds, so I'll discount him.

I know for a fact a great many of our police and army are both Westerners and Quebecers, so there is that small complication. Hey if we seceded (and Canada is not cast in stone, people, no borders in history have ever been, why the French borders are only 63 years old!) and people like Christoph with perhaps a few rogue elements decide they'd like to overturn (AGAIN!) the democratic will of the Western people, then I for one shall be taking no prisoners from among the invaders.

But seriously, it is the idiot Christoph who is the extremist hothead with all his talk of military force to resolve this. The Eastern Bloc has no stomach for the Taliban. What makes him think they have the stomach to bomb us, or engage in all-out open warfare with conventional weapons?

The real issue is not whether this the way Canada works. I'll grant the Easterners this point. This IS the Constitution in action, and there's no argument. Dion et al. are within their legal rights to do what they are doing. Fair enough. It's like adultery - not illegal, just wrong.

The bigger issue I think we need to push out West is this: given that this is what happens if we stay in Canada, it is perhaps tme to open the discussions on alternate futures for us.

And YUCK FOU Christoph, call me traitor to my face for suggesting that we begin a serious movement to present Western Canadians with a political alternative to the status quo. Something the Eastern Bloc clearly has no interest in doing.

Really, folks, I haven't heard ONE person give me one argument FOR remaining in Canada. And when the East's argument is simply "oh well, your separation idea will never fly so stuff you idiots"; that is no basis for building a country.

It is clearly time to examine the West's role in Confederation, and whether it is in our interests to remain, given the current set of rules for the game...

Posted by: bcf at December 2, 2008 11:08 AM

Those "stupid sonsabitches" seem to be pretty oblivious that they are facing an invitation to a party.

Political "neckties" will be provided at the door...

Posted by: oatmealeatincanuck at December 2, 2008 11:09 AM

THE MARXIST BROTHERS

Posted by: POGUETRY at December 2, 2008 11:12 AM

I'll hammer the point home. If Canada is the sort of country where people in two provinces cannot accept a Western PM and Western-based party to rule over them, after they've ruled us as a de facto Colony for over 100 years, then our joining Confederation was an historical mistake, and needs to be put right.

This movement is the beginning of our reply to the CBC's dismissing us as "group therapy" or "an extended rant". There really is no common ground with such people. Eastern bigotry stops NOW!

Posted by: bcf at December 2, 2008 11:17 AM

The trolls are out if full force, but they aren't posting for the sake of informed debate, they are mindless flak dispersed to distract from the real issue.

Stephen Harper is my PM.

I don't recognize this "coup", as it is insult to anyone of intelligence and ethics. The Liberals, NDP & Bloc are proving that climate change is real, by turning Canada into a banana republic.

Posted by: untangledmind at December 2, 2008 11:43 AM

1400 hits an hour!

Ok, mark me down as addicted also.
Maybe I'll join Bloggers Anonymous later.
But first there is scum to get rid of.

Posted by: rockyt at December 2, 2008 11:58 AM
"Imagine now everybody west of Ontario telling Ottawa to go pound salt."

"

"... you believe in magical powers."

You're a God-damn moron. "Everyone" west of Ontario isn't going to tell Ottawa to pound sand. A majority of those people voted Liberal and/or NDP.

"Chrisph... Where do you get any suggestion the Canadian forces will remain loyal to this coup? Don't they have an obligation to protect the constitution and rights of citizens?

If the Forces are loyal to their oaths, they would march on Ottawa once the coup occurs and restore the democratically elected government or force the GG to call an election."

Really? Did you miss the recent election we had where, like it or not, the NDP, Bloc, and Liberals combined one the lion's share of seats in the House of Commons, and an even larger share of the popular vote?

They wouldn't be "respecting the constitution", by doing what you suggest. They would be committing high treason against their oaths and would be subject to terms of lifetime imprisonment.

Also, the Canadian military is not the United States. It is far less conservative. A simple majority of its members too vote other than the CPC, although the CPC might have a bit more support there than in the general population.

"Christoph - please read 'The Clarity Act' copied and claimed by Deyawn. (The Prime Minister actually wrote it) West can move if 50% + 1 want out!"

You don't have 50% + 1 in the West generally. You don't have that level of support in any province for separation. You aren't going to see a lot of crossover voters

Explicitly Western separatist politicians have never polled over 1% in a general election. If I'm wrong about that, it certainly was still never close to 50%.

A lot of our newfound support came from Ontario. We actually bled support slightly from BC and Alberta this time around.

Many conservative voters would walk and not vote for separatists. It would split the conservative movement again. We'd be weakened in Canada and separatism would go nowhere.

"I don't think you realize how angry I am. In fact, I can't ever remember being as angry as I am right now. I will not now, nor ever acknowledge these socialsts as having a legitimate right to the job of running Canada.

"As far as I am concerned war has been declared on me.

...Now stfu, I'm sick of reading what any socialist has to say.
Posted by: A Storm is coming at December 2, 2008 7:53 AM"

"I don't think you realize how angry I am."

Yes, I realize how angry you are. No, I'm not a socialisty, you asshole. I've campaigned for the CPC, even been punched by a socialist while going door to door for the CPC candididate in my riding. I didn't engage the fellow in combat because I was in the elevator with an elderly lady who could have been injured, and it wasn't the most serious punch in the world.

We called the police instead, and they came and dealt with it.

You would lose her vote if it was a vote for separation. And you would lose mine and I support every conservative cause known to mankind.

You guys here are the hard right of the Conservative Party, and you don't have the political support to win a clear majority vote for separation no matter how angry you are.

Above I said:

"I would only consider considering it not an act of treason if a majority of the Western provinces' population clearly expressed their will and supported it: They don't. Not even close."

And you know what, "stfu"? I actually believe in Canada, freedom of speech, expressing my mind, and I'll say whatever I want.

YOU are legitimizing the Bloc Quebecois.

Posted by: Christoph at December 2, 2008 12:13 PM

My point in quoting, "... you believe in magical powers," above is it is you who clearly do.

This magical 50%+1 vote for separation in the West you bloviate about.

It doesn't exist.

Posted by: Christoph at December 2, 2008 12:15 PM

Christoph, you are wasting time.

As I've said before, and I'll say again, the reason the West finds itself in this mess is because you DON'T have a credible threat to renegotiate the terms of the marriage. And I suspect there are a great many things (as I've mentioned) on the way to full separation, short of full separation.

How on earth could you be against a more equitable balance of power in Canada? How could you support a system in which we in the West have to convince our Colonial masters in Quebec and Ontario to vote for the one party that won't rape us in the night?

Are you that blindly loyal to the socialist idea of Canada, Canada, right or wrong? That is stupidity. All borders are fluid, and change throughout history. (Where's the Kingdom of Naples now?) The US has one of the oldest constitutions in the world, barely 230 years old.

Thus why should Canada be any different? It is subject to the same forces for change as the rest of the world, mate. And when Canada in its present form no longer serves the interests of the people it claims to represent, it needs to go. Knee-jerk impulses of blind and mindless loyalty to an abstract idea like Canada (or socialist healthcare for that matter) are the province of the religious fanatic, not the serious student of modern politics.

There is much merit in Western Canada going it alone. Can you please argue FOR the West's remaining in Canada!

I don't care whether we lose conservative votes. This isn't about the Conservative Party of Canada. This is about an honest and critical appraisal of our presence in Canada. You're making a pretty weak case for Canada right now.

Posted by: bcf at December 2, 2008 12:30 PM
"Chrisph... Where do you get any suggestion the Canadian forces will remain loyal to this coup?"

Because loyalty is a hallmark of the Canadian Forces.

"Don't they have an obligation to protect the constitution and rights of citizens?"

Yes -- which is why they will remain loyal. The constitution allows for a coalition government if a minority party (CPC) does not hold the confidence of the House. And 62% of Canadian voters voted for these 3 parties.

So, for the reasons you bring up, the Canadian Forces would remain loyal to the government and the Constitution.

Plus it is so culturally out of the mainstream for at least the English speaking Canadian Forces to go against tradition and launch their own coups, I believe such would be shot down within its own ranks before it ever emerged without.

Even so, do you think the French Canadian soldiers in the CF would support a coup against this government? What about the roughly half of those remaining who, if they're political at all, who vote NDP and/or Liberal?

Here there's all this talk about "coups" and you talk about Canadian Forces marching against Ottawa. Which makes you an asshat.

You are at the extreme right of the CPC and if there was a referendum on separatism, a lot of moderate and/or loyal Conservatives would vote against separation. Very few NDP/Liberal voters would suddenly find they don't want a NDP/Lib gov, and vote to secede.

And I'll ask again: Why is the Bloc Quebecois a moral problem if you all talk about secession?

Posted by: Christoph at December 2, 2008 12:33 PM

bcf, at least 50% of the voters in Western Canada support large L Liberalism and/or NDP-style Socialism. And plenty of the remaining CPC voters are not radicals who wish to have their own country.

Therefore, no separation -- not by democratic means, anyhow.

Posted by: Christoph at December 2, 2008 12:35 PM

I'll sum up the typical argument for remaining in Canada:

"The flag just looks so neat on other peoples' backpacks, Canada just looks so cool on the map, and of course you'll never ever have the votes to do anything but stay in Canada and suck the hind tit.LaLaLa..."

Posted by: bcf at December 2, 2008 12:38 PM
There is much merit in Western Canada going it alone. Can you please argue FOR the West's remaining in Canada!

Sure, Balkanization (better described as having more countries within a given space) increases the odds of war. Canada hasn't had a war on our borders since 1812 and seems unlikely to.

In any case, the only country we -- unless we create others! -- presently have a border with would be harder to defend ourselves against if we were smaller.

Say, for example, a certain oil-rich easily traversed by armour province appealed to them. Or uniting Alaska with their mainland.

** I ** think escaping the warfare which touches most places on Earth with several borders has been a nice thing. Most Canadian voters do too. Therefore you'll never get a clear vote for separation in the West.

Posted by: Christoph at December 2, 2008 12:39 PM

bcf, you're stupid.

Posted by: Christoph at December 2, 2008 12:40 PM

Notice the Christoph parlour trickery: people who wish to have self-determination, and thorw off Colonial rule are radicals. Tell that to black South Africans, dumb@$$

Posted by: bcf at December 2, 2008 12:42 PM
"people who wish to have self-determination, and thorw off Colonial rule are radicals. Tell that to black South Africans

They were a majority, bcf.

Separatism supporters in the 4-provinces of the west are a fringe.

If you did separate, you'd still have to deal with socialists, and a general trend to the left for a variety of factors.

Posted by: Christoph at December 2, 2008 12:44 PM

OOooh Christoph, so you're telling me that the Eastern Bloc currently DOES have the military power to stop the Yanks?

God, strewth, you're a twit. Are you maybe Jack Layton? You must be some Librano/NDP hack blogging incognito. You crack me up.

But now he threatens us (again - Jeepers Christoph you're just begging for a showdown aren't you? Are you a former Forces type, turned down for a real combat role? Made to man the photocopier and switchboard at CFB Valcartier? Thought you wuz gonna be Rambo, eh?), he threatens that if we in the West peacefully go our own way, then our natural Western genocidal tendencies will just bubble to the surface, and we'll all go a Balkan-style massacring...

Listen you half-baked emabarassment: if Canada is held together only by the fear of what we'll do to each other if we separate, we got far bigger problems than Jack and Gilles, and I definitely want out of that confederation!

Posted by: bcf at December 2, 2008 12:51 PM

Notice, Christoph implies it is OK to oppress people, and deny them their poitical dispensation, as long as they are in the minority.

You still haven't made a convincing, rational argument as to why we should remain in Canada. And don't tell me the Easterners are protecting us from big, bad old Uncle Sam. Jaysus, whatt're you ON?

Posted by: bcf at December 2, 2008 12:56 PM

I'm going to ignore your ad hominem attacks because they are almost exactly wrong, but it's not important anyway.

"OOooh Christoph, so you're telling me that the Eastern Bloc currently DOES have the military power to stop the Yanks?"

No, I didn't say that. However, you'd be an idiot -- more of an idiot, I mean -- to not realize a larger country has better self-defence prospects.

The international outrage for taking out smaller countries is always generally less -- the defence possibilities are greater for a large country -- and the cost to an aggressor is far higher. Imagine the financial and troop commitments required to occupy Canada as opposed to, say, Alberta or BC, and get the strategic benefits I mentioned.

Speaking of strategic benefits, one of the reasons the U.S. no longer has aggressive designs on Canada is we are an ally, both militarily and industrially, the latter often being the same thing. Indeed, Canada became embroiled in conflict several times the last 100 years beside the United States, twice going before they went.

Our value to them is both as an ally and as a peaceful non-problem on their northern continental border. That changes if we break up into several countries.

That flux you talk about -- borders changing throughout history -- works several ways, including the U.S.' expanding its territory, which it has a history, even a recent history, of doing.

I know you want out of this confederation. You are the moral equivalent of a Bloc Quebecois voter (incidentally, while I oppose their leaving Canada, I don't think wanting your own country is evil per se; It holds more disadvantages than advantages when you belong to a country with almost two uninterrupted centuries long history of peace).

The difference is there's lots of them and few of you. And if they wanted to separate, they have a large population, you a smaller one.

Posted by: Christoph at December 2, 2008 1:02 PM

bcf, you're a right-wing fringe nutbar.

You don't have enough support to pull off your fantasy. What I object to is how you and your ilk will hurt the legitimate Conservative movement.

Notice, for example, no elected CPC MP nor Stephen Harper is talking about your nonsense. They'd humour you, welcome your vote, but that's it.

But rant, rave, whatever. You'll be the one in Canada like it or not. The rest of us will deal with reality as it exists.

Western Canada's only realistic prospect for separation is a dramatically weakened central Canada. Quebec separation, in other words.

If you work for that, not to mention Western separation, yes, you're a traitor.

Posted by: Christoph at December 2, 2008 1:07 PM
"Jeepers Christoph you're just begging for a showdown aren't you?"

Trying to avoid one by pointing out the reality of the situation to nutbars like you.

Posted by: Christoph at December 2, 2008 1:16 PM

Christoph, I reiterate sir: You believe in magical powers.

It would take magical powers for 60,000 men to secure the West. It would take magical powers to get all 60,000 Canadian Forces soldiers to go into battle against their own friends and family.

You are a bloodthirsty retard. You've never been a soldier or even known one. I spit upon you.

BTW I live in Ontario, which is majority CPC in the house at this time. Western separatists, take particular note. Its not Ontario or the East you're trying to separate from, its area code 905/416.

Posted by: The Phantom at December 2, 2008 1:54 PM

Christoph, nowhere have *I* ever advocated Western Separation. On this thread I extended you a fig leaf of peace & generosity and you just stepped on it and ignored it.

You do live in Ontario, don't you?

Waking up this morning, I see that you're on a mad rampage, attacking everyone on here with multiple postings, each brewing with venomous hate.

If I were a relationship counselor and this is the way you acted, I would only take it for 5 minutes before asking you to leave and then advising your wife to immediately go to a divorce lawyer because nothing will ever get resolved with you.

You seem to have an agenda. I don't know if you're a member of the Radical Left on here acting as a troll or if you are a proud Ontarian simply concerned about Canada splitting up. But either way, you seem to be a very angry young (or old?) man.

Posted by: Robert W. at December 2, 2008 1:55 PM

Kudos on creating such a well-read blog.

However, as one on the left of the spectrum, the prospect of a couple thousand pissed-off far right-wingers -- in the context of a country with 30 million people -- doesn't exactly have me quaking in my boots.

This will be decided by average Canadians who generally don't know that blogs exist. Which is why I think your post was probably a bit self-important.

Posted by: GetReal at December 2, 2008 5:08 PM
"I'm also damn near sure there's a lot of liberal and NDP supporters that are pissed right off."

Liberal and NDP supporters don't care enough about Canada to be pissed off about this.

Posted by: Darrell at December 2, 2008 5:49 PM
Liberal and NDP supporters don't care enough about Canada to be pissed off about this. Posted by: Darrell at December 2, 2008 5:49 PM

Exactly.

Posted by: Christoph at December 2, 2008 5:59 PM

If we threw in Baffin Island, do ya think Quebec would finally shut up and leave?

Posted by: Martin B. at December 2, 2008 6:30 PM

Horrors!!!

They do not act in good faith, we have a prudent Gov't who does not spend our tax $$$ lavishly. Mr. Harper you have done a great job so far. We did not vote for these three stooges!!!!

Is there an anti-coalition rally in Ottawa on saturday???? Please let us know where to meet.

Posted by: Michel at December 2, 2008 10:16 PM
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