So the truck in back represents UAW?

Sounds like an old McCollugh chain saw under the hood!

I've never owned a "foreign" vehicle, because I know this whole idea that Japan makes higher quality cars is a product of the media. It just isn't true. A lot of people will comment about their Hondas and Toyotas going 300,000 km with no service, but they're lying. For one thing, Honda engines are designed to last 150,000 until a major re-build is required. That would include a timing belt at considerable cost. I'll admit that Japanese cars are high quality, but the love affair with the media is what really boosted their sales.

The media bias that's been discussed lately is not a new phenomenon. It's had an effect on everything from politics, to cars, to sports, and to religion.

I don't know about that statement "dp". I have a 2003 dodge diesel and was thinking of trading up, went to many dealers and talked to many oilfield workers in May/June/July/August. Same crap everywhere, bad pricing and "very bad service" on the "big 3", with piss poor warranty coverage. Talked to many people in same time period who owned Honda and Toyota they said that the vehicle's were performing excellent and gas/km were better, "very good service" and very good warranty coverage. If buying vehicle today, I would not be buying "big 3" product.

Posted by: dp at November 22, 2008 12:02 PM

You should try leaving your home once in awhile. The outside world is neat.

Merle- I live and work in the oilpatch. Toyota trucks have been a major dissapointment. The new tundra v8 gets 14 mpg highway, and the people I know, who've bought them, aren't going to buy another. GM has a much better warranty than any Jap model. The only good choice from Toyota is the smaller truck (Tacoma?). You'd have trouble adjusting to the size from a full-size Dodge.

Nissan Trucks have the honour of spending more time on a tow truck than any other in the oilpatch. They've begun to disappear as quickly as they appeared. Again, poor gas mileage.

Honda doesn't make a truck. Their Avalanche clone won't handle off-road use. It's a unit-body.

You should reconsider trading the old Dodge. The new ones are designed to burn "clean" diesel, and they don't work as well.

One thing I've noticed is a tendency to try and justify the decision to buy a foreign car by ignoring its faults, and highlighting its assets.

Volvo was the first really obvious example of this. They used to really push the safety features of the Volvo, but when the Americans started crash testing cars, the Volvo scored lower than a Chevy Chevette. It was all hype, for all those years. Volvo turned out to be one of the most unsafe cars on the road. Phil Edmunston's book had lists of safety defects for every car, and most were less than a page in length. Volvo's list was 8 pages long, yet the media love-in never skipped a beat.

Posted by: hardboiled at November 22, 2008 12:42 PM

I've been around the block a couple times. Probably 3 million Km. behind the wheel, and I'm not a trucker. Mostly 4x4 pickups. The outside world is all I've ever known.

German engineering at its best.Fendt tractors were introduced with great fan fare as the tractors that europeans wanted but the truth came out that they wanted a John Deere like everybody else.

I can't decide which is funniest; the video, the title, or the predictability of some of the comments. I'm leaning toward the video.

So "dp" I guess that you are in favor of supporting the "big 3" no matter the product that is put out there. Like in the 'clip' that is what is going to happen to the taxpayer money. All show like the back half of car pulling and it is there with the big vehicle. While the money disappears so nobody can see it as in the front of vehicle driving off. I think that is a good analogy of video clip.

Here is another analogy 'dp', I have owed a dodge since 1988. First model '1988 360 gas' lasted 9 years, second model '1997 3/4 ton diesel' lasted 5 without any trouble, very good service, excellent recall and very tough truck. 2003 1 ton diesel, problems with pre-lift pump every 20 to 30 thousand kms. Warranty fight every time I went in there, no complementary vehicle without fight even though it was stated in contract, hence very bad service in 5 different dealerships. Once they got market share they did not give one sweet toot about the after service. I have worked in oil patch since I was sixteen and have owned various 'big 3' products. In the last 6 years I have yet to see a Honda or Toyota on a tow truck.

My 1984 F250 diesel will probably be still running long after any new big3, or overseas truck is in the metal grave yard. Everything from appliances to Autos is disposable, and not worth it, or to hard to fix nowadays.

That car is an East German Trabant, by the way. They had two stroke engines that always produced that blue smoke and even when they were new they sounded like that.

Lest anyone think that the smoke and rattling sound of the engine were signs of an old worn out car - no, that was normal operation for these fine pieces of socialist engineering.

It doesn't surprise me at all that they would come apart like that if you tried to pull something. I've driven these cars and it was a real relief if it hung together long enough to get to the destination.

Further to Kevin's remarks about the "Trabi", it's also worth remembering that the German Democratic Republic (East Germany) was considered the most advanced and technically competent of the Soviet Bloc states...

Merle- I'm not thrilled with the direction the big 3 took with their products. I've looked at different options. For a small passenger car, I'd consider any option, same with an SUV. I just have trouble with all the hype. Some of the claims are too good to be true.

Trucks are a different story. The foreigners just don't have the right stuff to run with the big dogs. No diesels, no one tons, no chassis cabs, no dual wheels. Their v8 engines burn too much fuel, and their v6's don't have enough power. They might get there some day, just not today. I think next year will be a turnaround for the big 3. I expect to see more turbochargers on small engines, more small diesels, and better electronics. The market forced them to pull up their socks in the 80's, and now it's happening again.

OK, so I was waiting for the engine to self-destruct from the strain.
Little did I suspect that they themselves had already undermined the car's integrity so it would tear itself apart when external forces stressed it's integrity.

Wow, the metaphors in this clip run deep.

Good find, r i c.

If this is an example of the new green cars I've been hearing about , I'm not impressed ........ not one little bit .

I have a brother running a Toyota dealership in Sask and a brother-in-law with a Ford dealership, also in Sask. My lease was recently up on a '05 GMC Sierra and am considering what to get next. Won't get a Toyota or a Ford so it will likely be another Chevy product. Not a mopar fan. The GMC was one of the best trucks I have had in a long time but wasn't too big on the local dealership. Good time to be choosy.
My son has an '08 Tundra and he is more than happy with it FWIW.

O is Green? But, Henry F. said, give 'em any colour as long as it's black.

More: "Most environmentalists are in forgiving mood at the prospect of the greenest US president yet."
O deserves black-Green?
...-

"Green Obama’s official limo is a gas guzzler

On the campaign trail, Barack Obama promised to get a million plug-in hybrid cars on the road by 2015. His own new presidential limousine will be far from green, however.

The Obamobile being prepared for the president-elect is said to be a monster gas-guzzler made by General Motors, the troubled car giant. It will look like a black Cadillac but is built like a tank. A spy photographer who tracks down future car models for magazines snatched pictures of the heavily disguised first-car-in-waiting when it was being road-tested last summer.

The armour-plated car, which has a raised roof, windows up to 5in thick, extra-strength tyres and a body made of steel, aluminium, titanium and ceramics, is thought to be based on a GMC 2500 truck that gets less than 10 miles to the gallon. Three cars are believed to be in production so that two can serve as decoys.

While security is paramount - the car is built to survive roadside bombs as well as gunfire - there are hybrid four-wheel drives on the market, such as Ford’s Mercury Mariner, which some critics believe could have been adapted for the president."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article5213322.ece

If the Kyotocult has its way. We can forget about cars, trucks or the industrial revolution. Get a horse. Funny Video. (O:}

Revnant. A HORSE???? Do you know how many methane/CO2 laden farts those guys produce??

dp,

I drove a 91 Acura Integra(Honda engine under the hood) with 359,000 km. It went from St John's Nfld to Victoria BC and as far north as Cold Lake AB and as far south as Windsor, ON. I finally laid it to rest in Jan 05. I replaced the timing belt once at a cost of $550 in '99. My first car was an '80 Dodge Mirada couldn't start the thing when it started raining (which was bad because I lived in NS at the time). The second car I owned was a '66 Volvo which I bought in Yellowknife and drove even in -45C...just made sure it was plugged in and she always started. By the way, I grew up in Windsor, ON where the Big Three reside...too many stories of workers sleeping during their shift to make me comfortable getting in a domestic. I drive a Nissan Pathfinder now.

favill

favill- Some of those little cars are reliable alright. A friend of mine had a 68 Volvo in 1973. We drove to PEI once, and a tie-rod end fell off in a tight curve. A few weeks later we were racing to town, and when we stopped at the first intersection a balljoint fell apart, and the car dropped onto the wheel. We were racing with the same car on a crooked highway when the hood flew open, and left us blind at 70 MPH. It had really nice seats though.

My ex-father-in-law bought a Lincoln Town Car in 1986. He proceeded to put 450,000 km. on it over the next 12 years. He never touched the engine, transmission, or suspension, other than regular maintenance. It travelled gravel roads, Saskatchewan pavement, ice, snow, mud, and never gave a bit of trouble. The interior finally fell apart because the passengers were, shall we say, large.

I've owned a good many vehicles with small block American V8s, and I've never, in at least two million km, ever had to replace a frigging timing belt. These engines can never be equaled by any Jap or Kraut car. The million km. I've put on American diesel engines has been almost totally trouble free as well.

I can hardly wait for the DemocRats to fork over $25 billion to the Big Three. Because then I get the fun of watching the whole freak show again six months from now.

That's what 25 billion samoleans is going to buy GM, Ford and Chrysler. Six. Fricking. Months.

And dp, I own both a Dodge Ram 1500 and a Honda Pilot. For fit & finish, handling, mileage and go power, the Honda kicks the Dodge's V8 patootie.

Dodge plus side, its a truck. I love my truck. The Honda ain't a truck.

dp

give it up, I'v owned over 200 cars and trucks, mostly american, and they build mostly garabage compared to japs and krauts, even the new hundais are better built than NA cars

now as to trucks, well several of my friends whom work in construction are switching to toyotas, guess why?????

GYM- I didn't want it to come to this, but. I've owned over 10,000 American trucks, and never had a single problem with one. I had one employee who was considering buying a Toyota, and I had him transfered to Mars.

Here's a preview of the 2012 Auto Show: http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2008/11/lemon.html

I've owned NA and Japanese cars and pickups. The Toyota 4X4 was a lemon. I would hesitate before buying another Toyota. The Nissan Altima was pretty good, until the tranny went at 89,000 Km. Also a friend had one of the Nissan full sized pickups. Lemon. Terrible warranty service. So I won't have another Nissan. I've had 4 Ford 4X4 pickups. The last two were absolute lemons. Won't ever have another Ford. I've had 3 Chrysler cars and 3 GM 4x4 pickups. All good. So that's what I'll stick to.

Dirtman- A friend found a way to lift the front end on the new Chevy. Put a spacer on the top of the strut instead of the bottom. It doesn't affect steering geometry.

Lift kits have ruined a lot of 4X4s. Many of the reliability problems guys are having with American made trucks are caused by aftermarket add ons. One of my employess lifted and chipped a Dodge, and has tranny trouble and steering problems. Another lifted and chipped a Chev, and had suspension and steering trouble. My stock Ford is trouble free withh 110K. I think there's a pattern here.

GYM- I've been wondering about something. After the first 150 or so lemons, why didn't you think about trying something different? Even I am not that stubborn.

i've driven the big three. mostly full size vans with v8 engines. ford was the most reliable did a couple of million miles in them dodge was the worst. have have four trouble free, mid priced hyundai's and will continue to buy them until they lose their reliability.

Our company had about 450 cars in the fleet, primarily the Detroit iron until the last few years as people were selecting more foreign cars for the performance issues. I always drove the Big 3 and had problems with all makes. My last Intrepid blew the engine at 20K, total rebuild at $9k. At least the car had the consideration to die right in front on the Collingwood Chrysler dealership. Many additional problems with the tranny.

Have owned a Camry since 2003 after retirement and I love this car. A big 4 that will get a 1,000km per tank on the highway. Never a problem and an absolute pleasure to drive. Wife drives a Mazda, her third, great car.

Look around your neighbourhood and see the switch over to Toyota, Honda etc in the last several years. Can't all be hype, they build better cars. They will perfect the trucks too as they are run by engineers.

The Diminishing 3 will go the way of Morris and then British Leyland as the bloated unions and inept management of bean counters drive them into the ground. Hopefully the "foreign" cars will learn the lesson and keep perfecting the mean and lean ideology if not maybe the Chinese will eat their lunch and the cycle will continue.

The GM 6.2 diesel replaced by the much better 6.5.A company that strives for excellence.

So DP thinks that the media is against domestic auto makers.

Does he realize that GM is one of the highest paying advertisers in Canada.

I would sure like to know what they would have to gain by this attitude. Does he think they all held a meeting and agreed on this too.

There may be a reason for this attitude, perhaps it is because they are. I would take a German or Swedish made car over domestic anyday. Personal experience only is my measuring stick.

ROC- I can get past the fact that you're dumb enough to believe a Swede can build anything right. I can understand if you prefer to support a foreign economy for nostalgia reasons. But if you're so stupid you don't recognize the obvious dumping of underpriced products into our economy, then nothing anyone can say to you will ever sink in.

It's how they captured the manufacture of everything fron TVs to rubber boots. Dump so many items into the market at subsidized prices that the domestic industry collapses. You should really give yourselves a pat on the back. You played a very important role in fucking this country.

So Dp is your theory that if you call somebody stupid enough times does it make your view correct?

I guess I should stop buying all those underpriced German and Swedish cars...(I wish).

The germans and swedes have always been know to make garbage....yeah right.

Even some of your fellow posters think you are lost on this one.

I deeply apologize for destroying your country.

Apology accepted. Now get out there and buy something that keeps Canadians working.