And I thought I was the only one who saw that.

While this may not be completely accurate;
One could say Obama is the end result of an East Coast Elite who's been transplanted in the Mid-West. As he grows up, he knows -as fact- that he's better than every farm hick around him.

It's hard to hide a life time of snobbery.

I'm not a fan of Mr. McCain. That he won the Republican nomination is a cause for conservatives to investigate, not to be happy.

However, McCain as president would not be a disaster. It would just be more of the mild big government incrementalism we've seen since WWII.

I can't say the same about Obama. I don't think he's man enough to the the POTUS, In truth I don't think he's man enough to be a US senator. I think he's a playing piece for a group of men not smooth enough or clean enough to win office on their own.

But he is smoooooth, isn't he? Except when the teleprompter shuts off. Then the fact that he's a playing piece becomes glaringly obvious.

But I think EBD is correct. Obama doesn't see himself as just the top hat in the big monopoly game. He's on A Mission From God. Blues Brothers fans will recall how that all turned out.

The less politically correct version is 'taking the piss out of oneself.'

Even given Obama's voting record, associations, memberships, lack of experience, vapidity, socialism and narcissism - it's still his worshipful, blind congregation who frighten me the most. The spectacle gets worse every day.

the joke about him being from Jor-El was enough!

irwin daisy...right on.
David Warren asks the question...a little late:
What has Obama done that proves he is qualified to be POTUS?

Anyone have an answer?
That's what is frightening...that the masses can be so manipulated as if in a trance.

I thought Palin was pretty cool. Yes, she was playing to a Democrat crowd, but the show scored its highest ratings in 14 years, and many of these new -- and possibly one-time -- viewers were there to see how Palin handles those who are mocking her. And she seemed charming, and even bemused at the ridiculousness of it all.

And, at risk of being labeled sexist, she showed how attractive and -- dare I say it? -- "normal" she can be. The fact that she didn't come on stage bearing goat's horns and cloven hooves must also have been a shock to the Dems in the crowd.

As for Obama, yes, he has no sense of deprecation. However, I did think his best-delivered line was the one referencing his own "awesomness". After that, it got pretty uncomfortable, made all the more obvious after McCain's solid delivery and better-written jokes.

Unsettling, isn't it.

Exactly the kind of manifestation you'd expect from an anti-Christ sort of false messiah - or, to put it in more secular and broadly accessible terms, a rare and dangerous sociopath on a mission to fraudulently seize ultimate power for concealed and inimical purposes.

Of course such a demonic figure would - surely - disguise his smug contempt for the masses he's so comprehensively deceiving much more successfully... wouldn't he?

I refer you to the bizarre fact, which I recently fabricated because it seemed funny, that *no one has ever seen his feet* (it being hard to disguise the cloven goat-hooves of Ba'al, you understand, ah ha ha).

Metaphorically, unfortunately, it's more true than funny.

We have not yet seen what this man is wilfully obscuring about his intentions and true agenda, and I share EBD's bad feeling that we're not going to be pleasantly surprised when we do.

Someone said "To call Obama an empty suit is doing an injustice to the clothes hanger"
An ego like his is bad enough but the people behind him, in the shadows, are the ones to really worry about.
If he wins there could be economic termoil because of their policies.
if he looses there could be social termoil because of the radical leftist lemmings and their leaders.

Hate to break it to you, EBD, but Obama was never trying to take the "mickey out of himself". He was using a tongue in cheek approach to take the mickey out of his critics, and on the evidence of this post by you, he succeeded completely.

Lets look at the messiah quote IN FULL - "Contrary to the rumors you have heard, I was not born in a manger.I was actually born on Krypton and sent here by my father Jorel to save the Planet Earth."

Yes, Obama doesn't thinks hes Superman - he knows hes superman. He even claims that Jor-El is his father. That is a sign of his narcissm. Or it is a tongue in cheek response to the Republicans constant jabs about him being "the one". The manger reference comes because of the use of the term 'obamessiah' by right wing pundits. He is taking the mickey out them.

"And I got my middle name from somebody who obviously didn't think I'd ever run for president."

Yep, thats definitely an ad hominem attack on Palin and the GOPpers who insist on mentioning that his middle name is Hussein. Its just Tongue in cheek mockery of the GOP's tendency to highlight that fact.

"If I had to name my greatest strength, I guess it would be my humility."

Is he engaging in narcism here? If you see this statement in the context of the Superman statement, it is tongue in cheek. If you look at it in isolation, it sounds narcissistic. Most people see it in context - as a piece of blatant tongue in cheek hypocrisy.

"Greatest weakness, it's possible that I'm a little too awesome."

Again. Context. When taken alongside the statement immediately before this (that he is too humble), this turns into a piece of tongue in cheek hypocrisy.

This is, no doubt, the vicious attack on Rudy Giuliani:

"One other thing, I have never, not once, put lipstick on a pig or a pit bull or myself. Rudy Giuliani, that's one for you. I mean, who would have thought that a cross-dressing mayor from New York City would have a tough time running the Republican nomination? It's shocking."

Is it an attak on Rudy? I don't know. It sounds to me to be more like an attack on the conservative nature and rigid norms of certain Republican voters- a tongue in cheek jab at the whole Joe Six Pack image - after all, what chance does a cross dressing Rudy have amongst them. I doubt Joe Six Pack looks kindly upon cross dressers, and it is this Joe Six Pack that Obama is taking the mickey out of. Not Rudy. Not himself. For what its worth, Rudy wouldn't have dressed in drag if he thought there was something fundamentally wrong with it. Be honest, and think about how dressing in drag would affect Harper in a Conservative leadership contest. Probably worse than Rae doing the same at a Liberal forum, no?

"He's on A Mission From God. Blues Brothers fans will recall how that all turned out."

Right. Malkin and all call Obama the Obamessiah. Obama responds with some tongue in cheek quips using their terms. These quips are used as evidence of his believing that he is the Obamessiah. I suppose if they had called him a murderer, and he had gone up and made tongue in cheek quips about that, too, it would be seen by EBD and Phantom as evidence of him being a murderer.

Hes taken the mickey out of you, and boy has he succeeded.

Saw it.

Baldwin...

One of those people you want to hurl something solid at the TV.

Sarah got a dig in on him about one of the other brothers.

Related, sort of -- I'll cross-post this in reader tips:

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/081021/entertainment/entertainment_us_republicans

Hollywood Repubs feel bullied? Shocked, I tells ya.

Related, sort of -- I'll cross-post this in reader tips:

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/081021/entertainment/entertainment_us_republicans

Hollywood Repubs feel bullied? Shocked, I tells ya.

I don't think Sarah has to do much acting. It seems to come quite natural to her. All the good comics have that talent. John's line delivery was astounding. He brought down the house.

Obama is just a suit "empty or not". The Dem's are trying to control upper, lower Parliaments as well as the presidency. If this happens they have the free run because of the media.

Oh lighten up EDB. You're reading way too much into an excellent entertaining evening. Laugh a little.

Oh lighten up EDB. You're reading way too much into an excellent entertaining evening.

Laugh a little.

I do not believe that Obama thinks that he is actually "The One". Although, I do believe that he is narcissist. What he and his handlers have done is a slick PR campaign. A combination of Hollywood hype and TV evangelism.

I think that the progressives quickly realized the power of faith after after witnessing the Environmental religion of the past few years. AGW was a successful exercise in learning to manipulate people into deferring to "experts" and also fulfil peoples need to believe in a cause greater than themselves. In AGW, it was saving the world. In Obama's case it is the notion of "transformation" change. In both cases they have cultivated the True Believers to have an almost Puritan devoutness. Then the Believers, including the media, are able to feel OK about their vicious attacks on people such as Cindy McCain, Sarah Palin, SP's children and Joe the Plumber.

Obama is playing a part, putting on a show. The goals are the usual ones - greed, power and control. He is not that scary but his devotees sure are. The method that Obama has used to gain power has the potential to become an uncontrollable force. Riots if he loses and a progressive form of McCarthyism if he wins.

Here's hoping for social termoil.

I usually don't correct my errors but I meant to type "transformative" not transformation (unless he actually is hiding his cloven hooves )

"Hate to break it to you, EBD, but Obama was never trying to take the "mickey out of himself"."

Hate to break it to you, Dexter, but participating in taking the mickey out of oneself is what one is *required* from the object of a celebrity roast. The fact that Obama baldly didn't - couldn't - was kinda the point.

As EBD correctly observes, it's a cultural thing. A celebrity roast spotlight *demands* a display of self-deprecation; an exhibition of humility, common grace and good sportsmanship is not optional, but compulsory, in that context.

How singularly tone-deaf of you, Dexter. The essence of the matter appears to have eluded you entirely.

Common grace. Subtlety. Humility. Balance. A sense of the contextually appropriate. Good form. Qualities and nuances of which Obama, and Dexter, are both, apparently, bereft.

Obama's remark about the US Senate was brutal, and funny, and true. Most interesting. He is certainly a narcissist. Similar to, but not identical with, a sociopath. When he speaks of William Ayers as a casual acquaintance I am inclined to believe him. Indeed, he probably classifies his wife as a casual acquaintance, though not in public. Michelle Obama spoke with considerable bitterness about life with the Great One in an interview or speech she gave a couple of years ago, suggesting the lack of empathy noted by other observers.

Wouldn't it be more correct to say that Palin took the "Minnie out of herself"?

"participating in taking the mickey out of oneself is what one is *required* from the object of a celebrity roast."

I can only assume you haven't read McCain's self deprecating speech. He seemed more interested with Bill Clinton's whereabouts. Very self-deprecating. Go read it. Then talk.

"How singularly tone-deaf of you, Dexter. The essence of the matter appears to have eluded you entirely."

It appears I am the only one here who actually read both the transcripts, instead of watching one minute segments of it on youtube.

"Qualities and nuances of which Obama, and Dexter, are both, apparently, bereft."

This is a bit rich coming from someone who takes for fact whatever he/she hears. Go read McCains transcript and feel free to point out all the self-deprecating he engages in.

On a separate note, McCain looks quite at home amongst New York's elite. Wonder how well that will go down with the anti-elite crowd.

I would say that McCain fits the bill of a sociopath more than Obama John Lewis. McCain is known for his anger, and he does come across as impulsive. However, he has shown remorse over the keating five, and that doesn't fit a sociopath, unless he was simply doing that to preserve his job without any real remorse. /shrug.

I agree on Obama having narcissistic tendencies though, but perhaps not nearly as convinced as many others are here.

dexter,

You may already know this; when you post here at SDA you are not debating with intellectuals. Rather the people who post here are obsessively polarized in their narrow minded beliefs and ideology. You will know you've won the debate when they either attack you personally or try to tell you to leave.

Here is a great pic:

http://www.lookingattheleft.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/better09.jpg

"Barrack Obama says John McCain cannot use a computer.

Well guess what?

Barrack Obama cannot land a jet plane on an aircraft carrier at night!"

I think what amounts to a controlled crash, onto a listing deck, in heavy seas at night, would be about all the hands on experience with a joystick that you need.

I would take the guy who can handle a real joystick, instead of just a mouse.

Elephants like mice in any case, right?

Cheers

Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief

Frankenstein Battalion
2nd Squadron: Ulanen-(Lancers) Regiment Großherzog Friedrich von
Baden(Rheinisches) Nr.7(Saarbrucken)
Knecht Rupprecht Division
Hans Corps
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group "True North"

How humorous reading comments by liberals taking 'pubs to task for smallmindedness. PC thought police, anyone?

As for Sat Night Live, haven't watched it since realizing that the laughs were forced and the wait far too long between. Palin shouldn't have gone on, particularly with Baldwin looking down from lofty heights. Speaking of which, thought he fled to Canada to become your problem now.

Sigh...you've missed the point Hans. Understanding the impact, importance, and depth of technology and the internet in general is what people feel are important, and McCains ignorance of that makes people feel that he wouldn't be qualified to make decisions regarding technology issues. However, I do believe McCain served on some technology committee or sub-committee, so I don't think he's completely ignorant, but with all the BS internet laws I see these days I really hope someone with half a brain stands up and stops the non-sense.

As always when it comes to comparing a man who served in the military and someone who hasn't, its easy to make loud and impressive claims, such as the one about landing a plane on a carrier during a storm at night, it's completely irrelevant when it comes to being POTUS. Sure we can assume that McCain has nerves of steel (perhaps poor flying skills though since he stalled out and crashed two planes).

I do admit I would like someone with military experience, since they generally understand America's capabilities and lack thereof, however I just think the computers to fighter aircraft comparison doesn't apply here.

I've never bought the celebtiry roast schtick. It's sorta like high society charity balls, eh?

It's never really self deprecation. Narcissitic self-deprecation more like, which of course is vanity by stealth.

Dexter, with respect, my closing comment, which I'll reproduce here in full ...

"Common grace. Subtlety. Humility. Balance. A sense of the contextually appropriate. Good form. Qualities and nuances of which Obama, and Dexter, are both, apparently, bereft."

... primarily addressed the matter of proper comportment in the commons. Perhaps I was too subtle.

My point, to you in particular, was this: it is possible - and preferable - to disagree with a person's opinion, in an issues-focussed way, without using a gimme-yer-lunch-money, schoolyard-bully, derisive tone. You certainly seemed to find that it stung when I deliberately mirrored it back at you, and such was my purpose in doing so.

Adopt a more civil tone in discourse, and you'll find that opposing perspectives can be fruitfully and enjoyably explored without rancour.

None of us is all-knowing and omnipotent, and none of us is entitled to address others sneeringly or condescendingly - except, perhaps, in your view, Obama. You are of course entitled to that opinion.

If your perceptions turn out to be accurate, I hope your trust also turns out to be justifed, for all our sakes.

exetaz,

Where is Dexter bullying anyone? The harshest thing he has said was that the mickey was taken out of the readers who failed to understand what Obama was saying. Your obvious ad hominem attack on Dexter is a laughable diversion from his main point of contention; that McCain had little to say that was self-deprecating either.

exetaz,

I'm going to take the liberty of assuming that you read the transcripts, and in the absence of finding anything to fault me on, you have decided to pull me up for being rude.

There isn't one thing you have said that is relevant. You make some strange claim about it being a celebrity roast, wthout actually looking at what was done. EBD says. exetaz believes.

Let me finish off by saying, as politely as I can, that you would be well-advised not to take EBD or Kate's intepretation at face value. Go look up the facts, instead of assuming that Kate and EBD know it all. All I did was read the transcripts. Then I read EBD's analysis, and, with all due respect to him/her, the analysis was waaaaaaaaaaaaay off.

Next time I'll try to point that out in a polite way, instead of just imitating EBD, Phantom, and Irwin Daisy's equally acerbic tone.

You guys are seriously nuts.

When a guy who is widely lauded for his carefully-constructed charisma andhis unprecedented popularity, instead of his record, and who is seen as a messiah by millions of dupes describes his greatest weakness as "it's possible that I'm a little too awesome," and then busts out in a grin, it shows something other than his qualification as a public servant. Not to you, Dexter, you've made clear; you don't see the significance of the tone-deafness and in appropriateness of it -- there you have it. If you're an adult, and you don't get it, it can't be explained to you.

For someone with Obama's level of self-regard, his "joke" is akin to a strongman saying, in a speech or in a comedy club, "I can lift 20,000 pounds over my head" -- it's not funny, and the degree of not-getting-it arrogance of his joke would be determined by how funny he thought his joke was. Obama was pleased by the mention -- his own -- of his awesomeness. Someone who's likely going to be POTUS should know better. He's not an ignorant football player on the juice, he's a public servant.

I will give you this: as time goes by, such expressions of self-regard, once considered to be bragging, and an embarrassment, are considered less and less inappropriate, so your perspective -- or tone-deafness, in one view -- is more and more common.

EBD:

An excellent, dead to rights screed on this bum.
I just wish folks would stand back & take a good gander at this Character with out the commentary from so many of his followers. Just a cursory un-biased look at his past ought to send a normal person into a conniption fit.

EBD,

I won't lie - I am flattered by your attention.

That said, I find your gripes amusing at best. Obama is confident and self-assured. Krauthammer, a Pullitzer winner whose columns are published at townhall (a Republican website), states that this confidence and self-assuredness is Obamas greatest strength. I agree. You interpret this confidence as arrogance - a phenomenon which is common enough.

The term Obamessiah, one of many coined by right wing pundits, is meant to use absurdity to belittle his confidence and sense of conviction. After all, no one in the world believes he is a messiah, Oba- or otherwise. Obama takes that one step further by belittling his belittlers. "Forget Obamessiah", he says, "I am superman". He uses absurdity to belittle Obamessiah, a term aimed at belittling his confidence and conviction. Fire to kill fire.

"his greatest weakness as "it's possible that I'm a little too awesome,""

This is one of the oldest jokes around. If you want to fault Obama with anything fault him with lack of originality. Its akin to saying "I am smart, charming, brilliant, good looking. And did I mention how modest and humble I am". Its the same thing really. Its tongue in cheek humor at its best - supposed to be delivered with a straight face, but even he couldn't help grinning at the absurdity of it all. He knows how absurd that statement is. We all do.

"For someone with Obama's level of self-regard, his "joke" is akin to a strongman saying, in a speech or in a comedy club, "I can lift 20,000 pounds over my head" - it's not funny"

Thats not entirely true. Its a matter of context. If someone mocked the strongman by saying he lifted pick up trucks during his morning workout, and this person was to give a similar speech, he would probably get quite a few laughs by saying "It is not true. I do not lift pick up trucks during my morning workout. I lift 18 wheelers". Its all about the absurdity fo the statement. Especially when it is delivered with a straight face. Hence tongue in cheek humor - a concept you are, apparently, unfamiliar with.

"Obama was pleased by the mention -- his own -- of his awesomeness"

So you're in his head now, are you? Go watch that clip again - he looks pretty sheepish after saying it. The kind of grin most people get when they make absurd statements in tongue-in-cheek manner.

The rest of your post is inane. I am, apparently, tone deaf. You, one would imagine, are not, and yet you cannot recognize tongue in cheek humor. It was inappropriate, you claim. Was it? It was a facetious speech. The barb at the US Senate was funny too. Why is attacking the "elite" (Liberal and Conservative) acceptable, but mocking the US Senate, which is staffed by this same elite, unacceptable? People are always calling politicians liars. When Obama says it as ajoke, in a very tongue in cheek manner, it is interpreted as a statement of intent.

The criticisms you fire at me are applicable to you, too.

" give you this: as time goes by, such expressions of self-regard, once considered to be bragging, and an embarrassment, are considered less and less inappropriate, so your perspective -- or tone-deafness, in one view -- is more and more common"

I don't particularly care about who gets elected in the US. You do. You have taken the Republican line, and accuse me of being a Democrat, and brainwashed accordingly, because I dare to offer a different perspective. The only problem here is that you have been reading Republican commentary day in and day out while I have don't bother with either democrat or republican commentary. I saw the clips and read the transcript. You have interpreted it through a Republican viewpoint, using preconceptions gained, no doubt, through Republcian commentary. I haven't really bothered with the commentary - though I have seen Malkin use the Obamessiah term on Foxnews, and I saw Krauthammers analysis of the debates on Fox.

I don't actually tool around Republican sites at all, let alone "day in and day out," dexter. I don't watch Fox News. My reaction to Obama is my own -- my reaction to individuals like him is quite independent of their, or my, political affiliation. I like modest, solid public servants, not peacocks.

By the way, the Obama-as-messiah theme is not, as you asserted, a creation of right-wing pundits. Many people who are not right-wing pundits have noticed the whole personality-cult phenomenon, and the mindset of too many of his followers. Have you not noticed his rented Greek columns and his empty "change" message? Would you deny that he has become something of a cult figure in a way that's not even slightly commensurate with his resume? Where, outside of North Korea or Cuba have you seen schoolkids singing "(X) you are the one"- type songs? He is being venerated in many different...works as a great leader who can change the world -- this despite the fact that his crowning achievement is the self-creation of that image. The guy never wrote a single bill in the Senate.

It's all about him, dexter. Some people see that, and find his opacity unsettling and problematic in light of the position he may soon be in; others either don't see it or don't have a problem with it, but the bottom line is, you don't become a charismatic figure like Obama without gunning for it. He's selling his awesomeness.

"You have taken the Republican line, and accuse me of being a Democrat, and brainwashed accordingly."

Where did I accuse you of being a Democrat, or say you were brainwashed? You're simply making that up. You pulled that out of thin air. You accused me, without justification, of toeing the Republican line, and then utterly fabricated my counter-accusation.

It's just different perspectives, Dexter. Different opinions. Obama's "heh-heh" grin after he made reference to his own awesomeness is entirely evident, to me, and to a few others, obviously. You are the one asserting, in effect, that appraisals different than your own are foolish, but a perception isn't exactly something you can stick on a scale and weigh, is it dexter?

"After all, no one in the world believes he is a messiah" - dexter

“He walks into a room and you want to follow him somewhere, anywhere,” George Clooney told talk show host Charlie Rose.

“I’ll do whatever he says to do,” actress Halle Berry said to the Philadelphia Daily News. “I’ll collect paper cups off the ground to make his pathway clear.”

And this, probably about as insane scary as it gets (is that you Dexter?):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM8l3X_7Hkg&eurl=http://ibloga.blogspot.com/

"When Alec Baldwin told her how "hot" she was, he was arrogant, preening and entirely disingenuous -- he didn't even look at her, instead chewing the horizon of his own significance."

Or awkwardly reading a teleprompter like Lorne Michaels and Sarah Palin.

"so his 'joke' was a nod to his own success even as it superficially co-opted the outward form of a good sport engaging in self-deprecation."

Said more eloquently than I ever could. And, I'm glad I'm not the only one that caught this. Obama had a few good zingers in there, but much of his so-called self-roast was anything but.

The McCain campaign is confronted with a hostile media that has become surrogates for the Obama campaign and have demonstrated their willingness to dispense with any pretence of honest reporting to promote Obama. They have crossed the line and have become propagandists instead of reporters. They are closer in craft to Joseph Goebbels than they are to Edward R. Murrow.

The McCain campaign has to look for ways to break through the media firewall erected around Obama to reach the voters directly as did Truman during his successful whistle stop tour.

Saturday Night Live is not perfect venue and it does feature a regular cruel and vicious impersonation of Palin by Tina Fey. SNL could be considered the epicentre of the hateful Hollywood directed celebrity attack on Sarah Palin. In spite of all of that it presents an opportunity, such is the pitiful state of the media, for Palin to go directly to the people and she took it.

What was amazing is how easily she blunted the once sharp impersonations and cruel jokes by merely being Sarah Palin. She reached a large audience that tuned in specifically to see her perform and she did not disappoint.

C'mon folks. Give the partisanship a rest. We're talking about comedic banter here.

Suggesting that sinister character flaws might be revealed in a humorous (and generally self-effacing) address at a roast is not only gross over analysis, but is also a tacit self-admission of the sort of killjoyism that sadly infects some components of the conservative movement.

As Freud never said, "Sometimes an exploding cigar gag is just an exploding cigar gag."

Messrs. McCain and Obama should be congratulated for having the civility to leave their rhetorical shotguns at the door for an evening and poke gentle fun at each other and themselves. It would do the American political process immeasurable good if the Presidential candidates could import some of the evening's gentility and good natured humour into the broader national discourse.

Similarly, kudos should be directed to Ms. Palin for emerging from her protective media bubble for one night to face some of her critics.

Showing herself to be a good sport actually generated the best press coverage she's gotten in a while.

I saw Bob Uecker coming thru the passenger plane exit door, into the waiting area at L.A. International, when he was on that sitcom. that would be 1988 on my first trip back from Hong Kong.

clearly an unassuming kind of guy.

adulation is an extremely dangerous thing when given political leaders. hero worship; 'they can do no wrong'. applicable to anywhere on the pol. spectrum.

Hans: re the dueling joysticks:

ummm, computer literacy is a prerequisite in a digital world.

fighter jet joystick skill is a prerequisite for . . . . landing a jet onto a heaving aircraft at night etc etc, NOT a prerequisite for managing the most powerful nation that has ever existed in all human history.

its a digital world. I suspect jet pilots flying now know how to navigate a computer screen using a mouse etc just as much as they do an F-22

regarding the Palin / Baldwin thing, this from IMDB.com:

Baldwin: 'Palin Is A Good Sport'

21 October 2008 8:58 AM, PDT

Actor Alec Baldwin has branded U.S. vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin "a good sport" for confronting Tina Fey over her comedy spoof.

Fey impersonated the Republican on comedy sketch series Saturday Night Live and has been blamed for the party's recent slip in the polls ahead of America's presidential election next month.

Palin also appeared on the show in a retaliation sketch with Baldwin.

And the actor defended the decision to invite her on the NBC program.

He says, "When you come on a show like that, you are prepared in advance to get worked over. Palin knew that. Palin came on to be a good sport. And she was. She was polite, gracious."

EBD, perhaps I misinterpreted your last statement in your previous post which sounded a lot like "if you tell a lie long enough, people start to believe", implying that I saw Obama the way the Dems saw him (as they had been conditioned to by an MSM that apparently supports him). I was, apparently, wrong.

The cult-like following issue is a non-starter. Especially in this election, where its on both sides of the spectrum. Its the same with Palin now - if you had read National Review you would know the amount of abuse anybody who dares criticize Palin has to endure. These knee-jerk reactions are symptomatic of a cult-following.

"Where, outside of North Korea or Cuba have you seen schoolkids singing "(X) you are the one"- type songs?"

Are you seriously comparing a liberal democracy to two communist dictatorships? Is there a law that requires that this song be sung? Are there state agents sitting there to weed out possible dissidents? Are they being coerced into doing it? Is there a threat of reform through labor, if they don't? This comparison doesn't stand. Obama does not have the same indoctrination machinery as either of those nations.

Yes, the public support for Obama takes some alarming forms, but its about the same, give or take for Palin, who in the eyes of many, can do no wrong. She has a sizeable section of Republicans in raptures at her conventions. Not dissimilar to some of the populist rallies in the countries you mentioned.

I think your biggest issue with Obama is that he is confident and self-assured. He is playing, you claim, to a messiah image. I don't see it, but I'll assume you are correct. Palin for her part has taken on the Joe Six Pack, "I don't give a damn" attitude, where being educated and urbane is a bad thing. Her support base is as populist and anti-intellectualist as, if your comparisons are an indicator, Mao's followers. She is empowering the little guy against the nefarious elites. Where have I heard that before?

If you say you are not toeing the Republican line, I will take your word for it. This site (the mods), however, leans in only one direction. And since you are a contributor, I don't think it is unfair for me to suggest that you lean in that direction too.

"I like modest, solid public servants, not peacocks."

In the context of the Al Smith event, you see his speech as him shamelessly strutting his stuff. The right-wing pundits routinely attack him on the same count. I think we can both agree on that. He has deliberately strutted his stuff at the Al Smith event, in a patently absurd and exxagerated manner, to take, as you put it, the mickey out of his critics. I think you are missing this fundamental happening. All he has done is take the criticism of him and exxagerate it considerably. Its akin to a straight man, whos been mocked as gay for having effeminate mannerisms, going onto a stage and act liking hes flaming. Does that make him believe he's gay? I don't think so.

You think his speech represnets his inherent narcissism. I think his speech represents a hilarious mockery of his critics. Obama, you argue, is dangerous because he has a cult like following. Palin, ostensibly, is not, even though she has made some incredibly divisive statements. That pro-America parts of America statement, for instance, is a lot more dangerous than anything Obama says. After all, it is dangerous, in any democracy, to imply that supporting the other party is akin to treason. But that doesn't warrant a post on SDA. You see what I mean by the noticeable tilt in one direction?

irwin daisy, I am sure American voters want to know what George Clooney or Halle Berry have to say. Clooney, for his part, has long been known to be a leftist.

The right says many similar things about Palin. And it takes no criticism either. Ask Kathleen Parker, or David Frum, or George Will, or Peggy Noonan. They are conservatives who dared criticize her. And they get roasted for it on a daily basis, by her cult-like followers. Dissidence is alive and well.

And since we are trading videos, want to see one thats a lot scarier?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kj-on3kfWuE

Granted it was a weird appearance for Palin, but she came off well in the (dandy)lion's den.

Baldwin was looking off into the distance because he was reading his lines off a teleprompter, and doing a bad reading at that. You'd think he could have memorized them. Maybe he was the one who couldn't handle how uncomfortable he was.

Palin spent $150,000 on grooming herself and her clothes. Not a peep about that, eh. I bet Joe Six Pack is happy to see his campaign donation money being put to good use.

Think it warrants an analysis, EBD?

Hey dexter, how many "Joe Sixpacks" would be able to go onto the national stage without new clothes? I certainly wouldn't. I contributed to both the RNC and McCain Palin, and I have no problem with it.

Lets see.

a) Shes anti-elite, but she wants to dress like the elite.
b) Theres an economic crisis thats hit the grassroots, but she's using their campaign contributions to dress herself.
c) Its October 22nd. She was inaugurated in early Sept. 7 weeks, $150,000. Thats over 20,000 a week, or $3,000 dollars a day.
d) Neiman Marcus - thats where the average American shops, right?

This is the lady who is going to stand up for the little, dressed in the clothes of the elite. Sounds terribly similar to the Latte left. Its a pretty large amount to spend, especially when its spent by someone who's supposed to be a refreshing change from the 'superficial' elite.

And dexter is backing a junior senator with zero experience in executive management. A close friend of a terrorist who almost made good with killing thousands. A 20 year member of a racist, supremacist church. Involvement in a criminally fraudulent voter registration organization. An employer of racist thugs from the Nation of Islam. A pathological liar. A proponent of murdering children born alive after an unsuccessful abortion attempt. An admitted socialist, trained by communists. Etc.

Compared to that dexter's criticism of Sarah Palin for the crime of buying clothes is as pathetic as his own existence.

irwin daisy - did mommy not feed you today? You sound like you need some sugar. Low sugar levels often result in

Read my posts. I don't care who wins. I would prefer McCain winning, but I won't be crying if Obama wins.

I just really don't like Palin. She's a complete poser, bereft of any virtues.

She's been educated at colleges that have no entry requirements.

She is divisive as hell - "Pro-America parts of America" - a nice way of saying that being American requires being Republican. Yeah, that bodes well for democracy. Thou shalt not diverge from the party line. You know who else says that? Them commies. And you know who lap it up? The useful idiots.

She claims to be anti-elite - then, the moment she gets a chance, she tries to dress like them. How Latte left.

She appeals to small-town Joes - who account for a staggering 20% of the American population, but are glorified beyond belief.

She's become the mouthpiece of the angry section of the Republicans. Barack "Hussein" Obama. That is a new low - playing on the fringes fear of muslims and arabs. The underlying message - Arabs and Muslims are not equal in the land of opportunity. This is what the founding fathers had in mind.

Her entire approach is straight out of the leftist revolutionary handbook. She represents the little guy against the out - of -touch elite. Sure she does. Thats why shes spending $3,000 dollars a day on her appearance. She would be right at home amongst the Latte left.

"Compared to that dexter's criticism of Sarah Palin for the crime of buying clothes is as pathetic as his own existence."

Its funny. I got chided above for being using an acerbic tone, not civil. Stop behaving like a petulant child. If mommy's not home, learn how to pour yourself a glass of milk and make some toast or something. Poor thing. I do feel for you.

Oops, missed a word. That should read "Low blood sugar levels result in crankiness". It'll make sense, once mommy feeds you.

Keep up with that line of attack dexter. It's really working.

Dont worry, Tim, I don't expect you to change your views. I think its pretty apparent that ideology has overtaken reason as far as you are concerned. If Obama is the messiah of the left, Palin is the messiah of the right.

Same behavior. Different sides of the spectrum. When it becomes irreconilable - as some nutjob on townhall claims, you might end up on the wrong side of the United States of Canada/Jesusland divide. There were 500 comments on that article, and most of them agreed that America had to split. Palin's hardly helping - pro-American parts of America. It's kind of funny. And sad.

I am betting that if blue parts of the US end up in "The United States of Canada" then big parts of the Canadian West end up in "Jesusland." The whole Jesusland" thing came from the left after the last couple of elections though. Europe was previously known as "Christendom"

Here is a funny stat for you "In 2006, the latest year for which we have Census data, 220 million Americans were eligible to vote and 89 million -- 40% -- paid no income taxes" These are the people that Obama is claiming "get no tax relief" under McCain's plan. So if we are living in Christendom, and I will be quick to move, you guys will be living in the "Union of North American Socialist Republics" We will see after the tenth UNASR five year plan whether Jesusland is doing better.

And what does snark and an attempt by you, dexter, to gin up envy or divisiveness regarding Sarah Palin's clothes have to do with reason?

"Europe was previously known as Christendom"

So, 'Jesusland' or whatever name its given will become like Europe - Social welfare, anti-semitism, nanny state and all? I am really not sure what you are getting at. Isn't Christendom anti-thetical to Jesusland - for the most part the former is associated with the Catholic Church. Besides, if Christendom is what you aspire to be, why did the first pilgrims come to North America to escape religious persecution. Either your history is really bad, or my history is really bad. Correct me if I am wrong.

I find it interesting that you refuse to fault Palin's divisive populist methods. The more attention you pay to it, the more it looks like a marxist paradigm - Average small town Joe (Lower/Middle class) v/s the nefarious urban (upper middle/upper class) elite. To top it off, she has basically trashed the notion of a democracy - if you don't support Palin, you are not pro-American. Whatever happened to freedom of opinion and different visions of America. When did everything become so black and white?

""In 2006, the latest year for which we have Census data, 220 million Americans were eligible to vote and 89 million -- 40% -- paid no income taxes""

Yes, another repeated talking point. Stop them from voting. No representation without taxation. I don't really care. I know there is a tendency to assume they all vote for Obama, but I suspect the divide is a lot more even, particularly in some of the poorer Red States. I don't know how to interpret this particular stat, but I would assume that there is a minimum taxable amount- guess 40% of America is pretty damn poor. Correct me if I'm wrong.

"you guys will be living in the "Union of North American Socialist Republics" We will see after the tenth UNASR five year plan whether Jesusland is doing better."

Lets see, you get Alberta - throw in BC too. And Saskatchewan. We get California. You can subsidize the farmers, while we subsidize the poor. I think you might be worse off. Californias economy alone is on par, if not larger than Canada's. And Quebec has lots of hydroelectrcity, should cut their energy costs. Hmmm.

Thou shalt not criticize Palin. I bet that '11th commandment" will be added to the "Ten commandments" monuments outside Christendom government property.

Ideology, ideology, ideology. Try reason some time.

THE BILL
$75,062 spent at Neiman Marcus in Minneapolis
$41,850 spent in St Louis
$4,100 on make-up and hair consulting
$4,902 at Atelier, a men's clothing shop in New York
$92 on a romper suit and hat with ears

"It is not the first time a political candidate has come under scrutiny for spending large sums of dollars on improving his or her image.

Senator Hillary Clinton's expensive trouser suits provoked comment, while former presidential candidate John Edwards was criticised for his $400 haircuts. Even Mr McCain's $500 Italian leather loafers have been noted.

However, if this type of spending was poorly-received before, it may go down very badly indeed with voters in the present economic climate."

So, Tim.

Dexter = Gayle

dexter,
You are talking about emotions like envy and class resentment and yet you claim that I am beyond reason. Clearly you believe that an appeal to emotion is an appeal to reason. I am willing to bet that you have no idea what I am talking about too, or will pretend so.

"guess 40% of America is pretty damn poor. Correct me if I'm wrong."

The cutoff before you pay almost no federal taxes is approximately US $50k. Seriously, that is why Obama's claim is such a joke. Pretty damn poor doesn't even come in to it. But obviously you are so ignorant of the issues in the US that it is pointless to talk to you about it. Keep watching the CBC and listening to Radio Canada, I am sure they will give you all the selective facts you need to maintain your opinions.

I am talking about emotions like envy and class resentment? Nope. Palin is. Thats her entire campaign. Representing the little guy or Joe Sixpack or whatever against the Liberal Elite.

"But obviously you are so ignorant of the issues in the US"

Congratulations. The only thing you could catch me out on was a technicality where I admitted beforehand that I didn't know the details. All I know is that circa 40million Americans live in poverty - don't know how many of them can vote.

Sorry, don't watch the CBC. Actually thats a lie. I do. The Tudors is a great show. Hardly a fact-providing one, though. Sorry, don't listen to Radio Canada either. Or Radio, for that matter.

So tell me - good American that you are -still plotting a breakup of the country into Christendom and USNR?

EBD = Gayle

(ps - EBD, what is the point of this exercise? What/Who is Gayle?)

"circa 40 million Americans live in poverty"

That is what you got from the exchange? That an income of US $50k is poverty? You really are an idiot if that is what you believe. You truly do not understand how progressive the US income tax is. It is more than a minor technical misunderstanding.

As for breaking up America, if you do a little research into the history of "jesusland", you will see that it is a liberal fantasy invented after Kerry lost. The name "Jesusland" just reminded me of the archaic name for Europe, Christendom. They both mean the same thing. I assure you that if it were a "right wing fantasy" the name wouldn't be "Jesusland." But you wouldn't be able to understand that either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesusland_map

I don't pay American taxes, so what do I care.

I would prefer a McCain win because of his foreign policy, but the domestic issues rarely appeal to me. Two dudes getting married? I don't care.

My misgivings about Palin, on the other hand, are primarily because she is heartbeat away from the presidency. She may not be left-wing, but she's a populist, and like pretty much every 'average Joe' turned populist leader, she will grossly miscomprehend the consequences of her actions. Populists rarely know what they are doing. They depend on their ability to divide between the downtrodden and the successful. And that division, once created, is hard to bridge. The victims will always see themselves as victims. Palin has given Joe Six Pack license to blame all his failings on those who are more successful than him.