I was disappointed that Hedy Fry didn't get the boot...I guess we have the latte-sipping queers in Vancouver's West End to thank for that. But maybe there's a silver lining: Maybe, just maybe, they might choose her to be their new leader!

Best Liberal leader ever .

Stephane won't quit while he still owes so much money for his 2006 leadership triumph. Stephen will not quit while he and the Liberal party are on the hook for his brain-in-ass foot-in-mouth libels that have landed the Liberals leading loser in court. Nope, Stephane has too much dignity and integrity and all of the other superlative qualities the MSM ascribes to him whilst lap-bobbing before, during and after Stephane interviews. Don't go Stephan: we need you!

We can feel empathy for Mr Dion v.v. his personal leadership debt. Adversarial politics aside, it is never a good thing when someone has to face personal financial insecurity because of something like this.

It doesn't matter if he is a decent person, or if we like him personally, he is now in financial jeopardy and we should hope he is helped in this regard.

I love the banner and will be adding that to my site.

Off topic but bizarre enough to merit mention....PMSH is holding a live news conference and Robert Fife just asked him if he will be stepping down as leader of the CPC and presumably PM.

Bob's logic is that PMSH's failure to obtain a majority warrants stepping down....Unflickin believable!

Syncro

I'm afraid Stephanie is going to have to go.
As the NDP ate part of the Liberal's lunch, the only way to counter a trend is to select Bob Rae as new leader of the LPC.
8^D

Stay Stephane stay!
Sit! Stay!
Good poodle!

Maybe Stephane can get his hands on some of the dough the Liberal party stole from taxpayers to retire his leadership run debts!

Imagine the hilarity that will ensue when Dion doesn't understand the results of his leadership review when announced at the next Lib convention.

Congratulations to the Right Honourable Mr. Stephen Harper and the CPC on the election results.

Dion is more or less a small dead animal himself now.

Not sure why people are stuck on "latte" as the liberal drink, have you been in a Starbucks in the past five years? It takes the average dipper ten minutes to reel off the specifics of their drink of choice. Latte is pretty much a starter beverage in that crowd.

Steffi might not quit, but what about his disciples? How many Liberal hacks are looking forward to languishing on the back benches for 2-4 years? And that after another divisive leadership campaign to further undermine their party's fragile finances, and with no capable candidates on the horizon? To a typical Liberal Quisling, the choice should be obvious: collaborate; cross the floor!

Might I add "Stay Cherniak stay"?

http://jasoncherniak.blogspot.com/

Charles MacDonald, I think you're right that a few will be tempted to cross the floor, who would want to stick with a party that is broke and looking forward to losing a lawsuit that will be the final nail in the coffin?

As I understand it, the leadership debts must be retired with funds raised under the donation limits. They cannot merely default on the loans since that would be deemed an over limit donation to them by the lender. The LPC also had to borrow almost the entire amount to finance this election. The leadership contenders and the Liberal Party are in deep financial trouble. They will not be able to mount an election or leadership campaign for a long time. I predict that Harper will be able to govern as though he has a majority for at least another 3 years.

Shamrock at 12:45 PM

the human's greatest intellectual failure to to understand themselves as others do, no sympathy or empathy for fools that charge ahead without engaging in some personal soul searching

he should have bought a mirror with some of that debt, and reflected:-)))))

Steffi might not quit, but what about his disciples?

Dion's leg-humping lapdog Cherniak claims he's quitting blogging.

Sorry Shamrock...I guess you are a better person than me,I can't for the life of me feel one iota for Mr. Dion in reference to any financial insecurities he might have,seeing as how he was going to pass those insecurities on to me.

Shamrock,

You are quite correct.

Nobody should have to face that uncertainty.....but ulm, rules are in place for a reason. So if all campaign debt is considered a mulligan after some time frame then there are no rules.

The rule should be, no debt period! No loans, no loans in kind. Raise your money and only spend what you raise.

Why someone like Dion spent what he spent is beyond me. He either didnt care, didnt watch or counted on a Liberal government winning and changing the rules to accomodate.

All of them face large debts. One wonders what the Liberal bank debt now that this election is over...and their number of votes dropped.

So all parties except the Greens had lower raw vote totals than 2006.

The annual $ losses by party are

Cons $296,000

Libs $1,487,000

NDP $127,000

BQ $307,000

These are amounts that the parties will either have to make up in personal donations OR cut staff and expenses. The Liberal one is a huge nut to swallow, given that they are trying to service debt, repair themselves etc. Thats like cutting 14 to 20 headcount in a private business.

I guess Bankruptcy is always an option. That would be the only way for the Liberal party to renege on their obligations without triggering the loans as donations I suspect.

The Liberals arent defeating any government anytime soon. And if I were elections Canada I would be watching auditing their books regularly, or getting an auditor to live in their CFO's office, jsut to make sure the right things are being paid and done.

This is a serious issue. Elections canada should be DEMANDING a plan from these guys, because the Liberal party is headed for BANKRUPTCY, you want to ensure you have all the records locked down. There are serious concerns about the Liberals as an organizational going concern.

The possibility of a few floor crossers to the Tory side is always possible. Particularly if Rae's musings of uniting the left gains any momentum. The Iggy crowd, being closer to the centre, won't abide by some of the wild leftist meanderings.
Remember there were more than a few hurt feelings during the unification of the Alliance and Conservatives.

There is a poll up over at Borques newswatch dealing with steffi's future. Maybe he can convinced to stay if enough of us support him.

Say It Ain't So, Joe
(1975 song) modified to "Stay, Stephane Stay" AKA the demise of the Liberal empire

Stay, Stephane Stay, please, Stay, Stephane Stay
That's not what I wanna hear Steph
Ain't I got a right to know
Stay, Stephane Stay, please, Stay, Stephane Stay
I' m sure they're telling us lies Steph
Please tell us it ain't so

They told us that our hero has played his joker
He doesn't know how to go on
We're clinging to his charm and determined smile
But the good ol' days have gone

The image and the empire may be falling apart
The money has gotten scarce
One man's word held the country together
But the truth is getting fierce

Stay, Stephane Stay, oh please, Stay, Stephane Stay
We pinned our hopes on you Steph
And they're ruining our show

Ooh babies, don't you think we're gonna get burned
Ooh babies, don't you think we're gonna get burned
we're gonna get turned, we're gonna get learned
Yes, we're gonna get turned, we're gonna get burned
we're gonna get learned,
Yes,we're gonna get burned
we're gonna get burned, we're gonna get learned
yes, we're gonna get turned, we're gonna get burned

AS FOR MR. HARPER--- GET OUT YOU LOSER, OUT, OUT, OUT

STEP ASIDE FOR SOMEONE WHO CAN BRING A MAJORITY, NOT YOUR TWO TERMS OF A LAME MINORITY.

THE REDS WILL WIN NEXT TIME WITH YOU AT THE HELM!!

And for those of you who want Bob Rae as leader of the Reds?. Be careful of what you wish for.

sL

meanwhile, to get ready for tonight's US debate . .

http://www.neverfindout.org/

Cherniak's gone, but Ezra is back.

Slevine....SORE LOOSER, SUCK IT UP....MAJORITY next time!

Citoyen Dion....BUSH BUSH BUSH BUSH BUSH LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR DA PLAN DA PLAN DA PLAN DA PLAN.... where did this height of intelligence get you? Thats what happens when you listen to jerks like Scott Reid!

The Liberals seem to forget the Steffi wasn't the cause of Liberal infighting resulting from an sense of entitlement to immediate power,

he was the result of it.

The next Liberal leadership convention will not be pretty, and its next leader may be yet another by-product of this continued corrosive Liberal mindset.

Frank McKenna for Prime Minister

Er, Slevine, are you smokin' something?

Harper's increased his seat count at every election he's fought, all the while further weakening his opponents.  I'm beginning to think he's got his eye on the Long Game — decades long.  His goal seems to be to make the Conservatives the Natural Governing Party of Canada, and he's much closer than he was six weeks ago.  He's turned the Liberals into a spent force that'll act like his lapdog for the next couple of years, and both the NDP and Bloc are lacking the seat count necessary to stop him.  Meanwhile, an entire generation of voters will be used to the idea of a Conservative government and won't be brainwashed by the Central Canadian axis to believe that Conservatives are somehow inherently "evil".

Harper's pulled off something that I thought was almost impossible in the Canadian experience — a minority government which can, for all practical intents and purposes, act like a majority government.

This guy's Yoda, methinks.

Garth

Elizabeth May as Lib leader!

thx to all the great people that made this so interesting and rewarding during the last few weeks ..Kate your GREAT . ps. if you had in small letters under the sign stay "stephanestay" it could read ,"I think you should do again"..or to that effect

Re: Diondebt. No it can't be forgiven, but I hope the LPC raises some money for this.

Haven't they done enough to him? When they had a chance to take the party down to its foundation and rebuild properly, they tried to do a home reno with Dion as the caretaker. Everybody knew he would lose.

Yes, those debts were incurred at his discretion, and he might have to pay the piper on this one; and the consequences could be quite onerous, expensive and embarassing.

Again, I hope the LPC has a gram of class left and will help him go quietly. Then he, and we, can move on to other things.

Frank4PM, McKenna's ties to the Carlisle Group and through that to the Bush family, as well as his anti-abortion stance will clearly be problematic for him.

Iggy will be outflanked by the tag team of Rae and Dosajhn, with the latter delivering his delegates to the Rae camp.

There is something else that the Liberals have to look forward to....the RCMP investigation is ongoing on ADSCAM and it has been reported to expect more charges to be laid. There is still $40 Million missing!

Also it is reported that the Cadman tapes have been altered by experts, if that is the case it could attract criminals charges. I am sure the Liberal Party would not have anything to do with this in their attempt to smear Harper.

Bruce:

McKenna has nothing to do with the Carlisle Group.

He also is on record for trying to prevent a private doctor setting up a private clinic in his province. The doctor happened to be practicing abortions, but that doesn't change why they took him to court.

"Harper's pulled off something that I thought was almost impossible in the Canadian experience — a minority government which can, for all practical intents and purposes, act like a majority government."

Yes, Garth, and this way their far right flank can't use majority to try to ram through social conservative divisive wedge issues like abortion (no matter where you stand). The CBC will only be dealt with incrementally, so we can forestall PQ separation, and artist angst everywhere, for a little while.

Perhaps we can have an actual debate about healthcare, the next financial crisis waiting to happen. A bipartisan approach on this issue is best anyway.

So, yes, and being what it is anyway, this is a good thing.

Frank4PM, McKenna sat on the board of the Carlisle Group with Bush Sr.

It does not matter if Dion stays or goes; they are in a terminal death spiral.

If they pick the former NDP Premier tag team from Ontario and BC, the Iggy supporters will cross the floor. Nobody wants to run with Rae in Ontario. The member for Vancouver South almost lost his seat anyways. Also, why vote for NDP lite when you can have the real thing?

If they pick Iggy, the soft Dippers will go nuts and become solid dippers.

If they get the idea to nominate PET's son, well the west will go nuts once again and the Bloc will be able to claim a thousand year dominion over Quebec.

I hope for Rae because then the defections will occur and Ontario will be permamently Tory blue.

Bruce: "Frank4PM, McKenna sat on the board of the Carlisle Group with Bush Sr."

False.

"His membership on the Canadian advisory board of the Carlyle Group drew adverse media attention; the media ceased pursuing the issue when McKenna explained that the board was established to advise on a Canadian investment fund that the group never created and that the board had never become active."

So the Carlyle Group wanted to make an investment in Canada, they asked him (and others) for his advice, they did not proceed.

Frank4PM, you sight wiki to back you up, what a laugh.

I think McKenna's a decent man, but I'm wondering whether he still thinks that the leadership of the Liberals is political kryptonite.

Sure would be more interesting if he ran for the leadership bid, though.

Garth

Bruce: Agreed, but it happens to be a truth. McKenna has nothing to do with the Carlyle Group and has, as far as we are aware, never received a dime from them. More here.

"Dion finished race strong as a Human Being"
Bob Rae ctv.ca

*Insert chiv here & here! wait for potential rivals to comment, before inserting here.

Here,

let's give the pitch a try:

Wanted: someone of exceptional talent, and who currently occupies and extraordinary position of power, and wealth creation, and who is also willing to give all that up for position leading a bankrupt party, with a falling donor base, mired in political infighting, and destined for political oblivion for the forseeable future.

I can't see why that wouldn't fetch some top notch talent.

Don't forget Gerard Kennedy. He's got big ambitions. He and his backers gave Dion the nod and the leadership.
I think he was aware that Dion could never be elected, and at the next leadership Dion would have to back him.
But hubris is his enemy. He still hasn't relized that Dion will be abandoned and Kennedy's support from Dion will be that of a single delegate.

How many of the prior potential liberal contenders are willing to fork out or try & get the kind of money required again, Only to have their dream dashed by say a Newcomer?
And for that matter have they even paid back their prior debts so can they even afford give another try?

biff:

Yeah, that oughta do 'er.  ;-)

Frank4PM:

Bruce has a point — regardless of whether or not McKenna was ever actually involved, the merest possibility that he was involved will be used against him in a leadership bid.  After all, this is the same Liberal party that started a whisper campaign against Bob Rae during the last leadership convention on the basis that his wife was a "Joooooooooooo"...  and Obama's been able to tar McCain with past associations which he long ago denounced, even while O!'s unsavoury past associations have gotten a pass from the Dems and the MSM.

Politics ain't rational.  Frank McKenna probably knows that better than any of us.

Garth

Sexual deviants are already hatching plans how to divide conservatives and unite all Canadian left wing parties. I am not making it up see: http://www.xtra.ca/public/National/Make_gays_a_priority_make_the_Cons_look_crazy-5680.aspx

You can expect hordes of Toronto homosexuals pushing to select Bob Rae as the new leader of the left united under rainbow banner.

Garth:

Iggy won 45% of the Liberal vote in 2006, was a Canadian resident for less than 2 years before he ran, like Harper never had a true executive job and was a lifelong pundit/politician and supported the Iraq War.

Bob Rae nearly bankrupted Ontario (and therefore the country) when he was "leader", is far to the left of the party and the country, became a member of the Liberal Party AFTER he started campaigning to become its leader.

Somehow, I don't think the fact that McKenna - who personally knows pretty much everyone in politics in North America - has some tenuous and brief contact with a group that also has some links to the Bush's will do him too much harm.

Like I said, politics ain't rational.  You may be right, but I wouldn't be all that surprised if Frank simply takes a pass.

Garth

Frank4PM, dream on. The Liberals are in worse shape now than when McKenna last contemplated throwing his hat in the ring.

And with the RCMP's ongoing investigation into Adscam now focusing on the political side I don't see an upside for him.

STAYSTEPHENSTAY

When you think about it Harper really did blow the election. If you can't beat a lame broke rudderless party then you're not much of a leader.

That thing about the lattes is too funny. If conservatives don't drink lattes because of the mystique then they have a non supportive ideolgy cycle. How can they sell the populace on conservatism when they're hung up on mystique?

garth wood - exactly. Harper isn't an 'hysteric' type who reacts emotionally and lives in crisis mode. He is a strategical planner.

I've never seen him so 'light' and delighted as his victory speech last night. I think he achieved exactly what he wanted. He doesn't want what I call an 'external win' which is one fueled by emotion and crisis. He won in 2006 that way, with voters rejecting the Liberal Sponsorship corruption. And, his five point pragmatic plan acted as an attractive simple goal oriented govt.

He wants an 'internal win' which is based on an acceptance and support of policies. He achieved this - with that increase in seat numbers and above all, that increase in CPC support even in Liberal held seats.

biff - I agree; Dion is the result of the Liberal sense of entitlement. But the Liberals have been reduced to two cities: Toronto and Montreal and a smattering of other seats. And, their support vis a vis the CPC has been reduced. And, they are almost bankrupt.

Harper knew exactly what he was doing. Now, he can govern as he wants without the mindless, brainless, partisan rants of the Liberals and NDP.

I may be wrong, but I think Dion will remain as leader for at least a year or two. Or more. No election. Why won't they replace him? Because a 'charismatic' leader will lose his charisma in the House if all he's doing is agreeing with the current government. That type of person is either in govt or in an election. Not in opposition.

As for Rae, and people's hopes that Ontarians will remember his disastrous rule over Ontario - that was 15 years ago. The 15 year olds who are now in their 30s won't remember. The new immigrants won't know. And Rae's been elected by those same Ontarians, as a Liberal MP, twice.

I think it will be Rae or McKenna who eventually becomes leader. Justin Trudeau? Heh; based on what experience - in anything?

Bruce:

How about:
- the ongoing corruption and ethics investigation, er, make that investigations into Harper and the Conservatives
- the fact that, despite all that he had going for him - way more money, a weak penniless opposition leader who couldn't speak English, 2 years of record spending to buy votes, a base that supports him even though he jettisoned almost all conservative principles, a caucus that remained content to be muzzled, etc. etc. - and Harper ended up getting fewer votes than he did in 2006. Harper is a spent force, his leadership numbers are way down and has had his two chances. Canadians don't like him - they don't like any of the others either and that's about all Harper has going for him.
- part of the internal Liberal problem is that none of the leadership contenders had very broad contacts within the party to bring it together or to raise many funds. That doesn't apply to McKenna.
- Liberals who have stayed away are coming back.
- It was obvious from the polling in the campaign that Canadians wanted a centrist leader - as Harper threw out some bones to the far right, his numbers went down; when Dion squashed the Green Shift his numbers went up and when he re-focused on the Green Shift at the very end his numbers went down. McKenna is the quintessential Canadian centrist.

There are lots of reasons for him not to run, but the time couldn't be better for him to run than right now.

Shall we just agree to disagree? You will never convince me otherwise.

Let’s try an agricultural metaphor. Stephen Harper’s ideas are a systemic herbicide, like Roundup, which has been sprayed on the vile Liberal weeds currently infecting our great nation. Rather than effecting a rapid top kill, Harper is content having the Liberal weeds continue to grow while his ideas are trans-located from the leaves to the roots of each weed. This ensures the death of the entire plant, and a complete eradication of Liberals in Canada. The Bloc is the water in a slough at one end of the field which must be constantly farmed around, except for the dry years when you can seed straight through. Some years you can seed the slough, but by the time you go to harvest, the slough has filled back up with water and you have to leave crop standing or risk getting hopelessly stuck. The NDP is the fringe of grass bordering the field which must be driven over to access the field, but otherwise is irrelevant and ignored. Some years the fringe is wider, but it never amounts to anything more than a fringe. The Greens are a spent tube of Co-op grease, ejected from the grease gun, and lying in the dirt. A curious passerby stops occasionally to see what it is, realizes it is useless, and leaves it lying in the dirt.

Wouldn't be so cocky if I were you ET. Canadians clearly rejected Harper's policies last night.

Canadians clearly rejected all of the leaders last night, Dion far moreso than others, but Harper got fewer actual votes last night than 2 years ago despite all of the advantages of government and a weak opposition and a larger voting population.

Canadians are fed up with value-less, out of touch politicians who are only in it for power. And they are voting with their feet by not even showing up to the polls - a record low. It is very sad that we don't have a real leader anywhere near Ottawa.

As the guardian knight keeps getting hacked one limb at a time, he continues his bravado.

“It's merely a flesh wound," he declares boastfully as both his legs and his arms are hacked off and the blood is spurting from all the wounds. “Come at me again and I'll bite your ankles."

Such is the state of the Liberal Party.

I get a sense of deja vu ... Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

People who think a guy like Frank McKenna is going to ruin his health (Mental and physical) in trying to kick start a dying dynasty plagued with debt and scandal and heading straight into irrelevance (Harper has taken the centre, good luck trying to remove him) is dreaming in technicolor. The world of Canadian politics at the Federal level has become toxic and divisive. Canada as a whole is rapidly becoming unmanagable and pure hell for a measly salary for that much responsability and absolutely no gratitude in return...Witness Quebec yesterday.

Iggy is still the Libs best chance and choice that is visible at this time but will he stick around? I think he's still more right of centre and I would not be surprized Harper offers him a cabinet job and possibly send him packing in Montreal where a big wig is needed for the Tories.
I don't think Trudeau has enough guts and is not starving enough to hang around the time required for the job. His mommy eyes reflect a weakling a la Dion to me.

Try Liz May, I'm sure she's willing.

Frank4PM writes the way that Scott Brison speaks,WTF?

I only hope that Mr. Dion stands up to those bullies in the Liberal Party and takes back his rightful mantle as leader. He is without question the one to guide this party toward its destiny. He got a redo on the questions and he should get a redo on the election. Hey, give him a mulligan. Fight, Mr. Dion, fight! Stand up and take this like an ivory tower academic. Don't listen to those knuckle-draggers. Show them what sociology professors are made of!

Stephane Dion " Can we start the E..l...e...c...t...i...o....n again? I do not understand this thing you call an election. Today?? or two years ago?? Can we start again"???

*
so, what if the conservatives promise to pay off steffi's debt...
in exchange... he stays on as liberal leader to take
another shot at the title?

*

There is only 1 heir apparent. John Manley. His challenger....McGuinty. But the two are tight .

Typical irrational Liberals. Positioning a Conservative win and gain in seats as actually losing. Up is down. Left is right. Yes is no. Etc.

I love it that the conservatives only hope to win is by competing against a weak opponent. Why don't you try and win with a strong leader. Last night clearly showed Harper doesn't have it to win.

I also love the fact that Harper has to resort to kissing the behind of the Liberals, NDP or the Bloc in order to get anything done. At least the right wing agenda will not be realized.

I love democracy

beardyscree, wow, what a moron. PM Harper doesn't have to kiss lieberal asses, they'll just run and hide when he wants to pass a bill, just like before.
Suck it up little boy, the Tories are in for quite a while.

frank4pm - sorry, but you aren't making any sense. Your assertions are ungrounded in facts; they are just your opinions.

Facts are that Harper won 16 more House seats; that the Liberals dropped 19 seats. Facts are that the Liberal wins vs Conservatives were all much closer than in 2006. Facts are that the so-called 'Natural Governing Party' has been reduced to an existence only in Montreal and Toronto, with a few scattered elsewhere. Facts are that the Bloc has been rendered irrelevant because it has isolated Quebecers from the federation.

You don't understand political infrastructures; they aren't all about 'majorities'; they are about a structure that can enable a govt..to govern. That's exactly what Harper has now. Getting a majority in the current Canadian political infrastructure, with four parties on the left and only in the centre-right, and one of those parties whose electorate is not universal but confined to one geographic location...well, it's not easy getting a House seat majority in such a situation.

BUT - you can, with difficulty, get an infrastructure where a Strong Minority can govern effectively. And that's exactly what Harper has achieved.

But, you don't understand this; you are stuck in the 'majority/minority' binarism. Our five party system has become too complex for that.

@BeardysCree,

You mean like Harper had to "Kiss the behind of the Liberals" in the last government? Because, from what I saw, Stephan Dion proudly bent over and took it from Stephen Harper regularly.

The Liberals have no principles or values, and will do anything in their power for self preservation. At the moment, any move towards an election would bankrupt the Liberals so they're (essentially) a kitten without claws.

Cruel punishment meted out to Puppet Citoyen Dion by Smith et al.
Citoyen "was reeling".
It's not fair.
Watch for quitting due to health/family reasons.

...-

"He was protected from the bad news to keep him pumped"
...-

"Dion was not prepared to make such a dramatic move because he was reeling from the election outcome, having been told only shortly before the polls closed that the Liberals were about to take a hit. He was protected from the bad news to keep him pumped during a final cross-Canada sprint on election eve to ridings where Liberal candidates were in big trouble.

“He poured his heart out,” Smith said. “And I think it was frustrating for him that a lot of Canadians just didn’t understand the environmental initiative that he was proposing.”"
...-
http://tinyurl.com/3olr64 (NP)
"Liberals urged to give Dion time to decide future after painful loss"

As I went about collecting our Carmichael campaign signs as we were shut out again in Toronto I spoke to many people and thanked them for their support. I always asked the question about the neighbouring Liberal signs and as I have wrote throughout the election they are almost always government employees. Here in Leaside it is primarily teachers.

I firmly believe that as ET and others have written the leftist ideology is the driving force of these people not whether Harper's policies are good or his accomplishments are solid. Generations of this taught ideology is bearing fruit in the huge numbers of Liberals, NDP and the Bloc all run by advocates of Marxism.

Perhaps the coming economic storm will break the back of their fat OMERS and government pensions and their highly paid government jobs. Hard work and personal responsibility may replace the sense of entitlement these people feel.

I hope Harper tells Ducette to take a hike when his demands for more and more for Quebec, always Quebec are bleated once again. Same thing for Miller and heavily socialist Toronto. The choice was theirs and they chose poorly, let them live with it.

Beardy's Cree

Wrong....your lefty friends CAN"T defeat the government because none of them can afford an election nor do they want to be held accountable by the Canadian public.

So Harper doesn't need to kiss anyone's butt, they will all be dancing like puppets on strings trying to avoid an election!!

If there was one lesson learned from this election. It is the fact Canada has no Media that symbolize Westerners beliefs or ideals in particular, but the Nation as a whole for Conservatives, libertarians, or even middle of the road peoples real issues. The Predisposed conduct displayed by most MSM outlets should scar & shame them with a red letter from now on. L for liar.
It was awkward election night watching the antics of grown up buffoons. Pretending to be adults with special knowledge. They came off as pill crazed monkey's.
Our press with TV does not report news but makes it, than scrubs it for partisan reasons.

The only lasting good that came out of this mish mash of an election ,was how much power Blogs & assorted web media controlled ,than handled it very responsibility even digging out the truth on both sides. The other competitors where left in the dust while Canadians searched the net for news, not CBC or the pages of Daily’s. If Harper had read more Blogs he would have had a majority. Never hurts to find out what concerns folks are willing to put down or discuss. Anyway good luck to Mr. Harper on another minority victory!

Just how much of this media and Liberal mourning{no doubt,for the country}do we have to endure?Will they just get back to their drive by smears and manufactured news,it's easier to stomach.

Don't deter him, Kate. He wants to quit. We know he wants to quit....don't you Stephane?

Dave - yes, the Liberals are indeed, almost always, in govt jobs: teachers, health care, bureaucracies. These jobs are extremely wellpaid, secure, many benefits.

These people want Big Govt because it provides them with these jobs. And these jobs aren't 'individualistic' style; you get them, primarily via contacts and networking. You keep them and advance in the same manner. They aren't entrepreneurial or innovative; there is no risk-taking involved. It's like living in a safe cocoon.

These people pay taxes quite willingly for big govt to do all the 'nasty things', such as isolating and taking care of the poor, the homeless. And 'immigrants', who are locked away in ghetto-like communities. Immigrants themselves are kept in these communities, funded to 'stay isolate'; Harper is trying to break down this non-integration.

Since these people are not risk-takers or entrepreneurs, we get a Canadian economy bereft of entrepreneurial business. We get an economy operating franchises rather than our own style of business; one that copies inventions from elsewhere rather than risk the money and time to innovate new products.

That's the Liberal style. It is slowly breaking up because Canada has grown too large for such a suburban style dependent economy. But, the Old Guard like the comfort of that dependent suburban lifestyle..so, they keep their head in the sands and continue to hide.

Note, Dave, that Carmichael lost this time by a much smaller margin. The change is coming in the GTA. Big Govt, a dependent economy, a population living within govt jobs and a suburban mentality..can't last in this new global world.

Sure, Dion claimed he wouldn't quit if he lost.

Ah, but he also said at first, "No carbon tax".

As for McKenna, c'mon- he's "anti-choice" no matter how you spin his war against Morgentaler. I know; I followed the whole thing as it happened, being a NBer myself. I'll tell you, if he did today what he was doing then, well, no doubt he'd be crucified as a "far-right" monster who "wants to take away womens' rights" and all that nonsensical crap.

Plus, did y'all know that McKenna banned radar detectors in New Brunswick but was caught operating one thereafter? Sound like a typical double-standard, culture-of-entitlement, rules-don't-apply-to-me Librano, eh?

swatter @ 4:14PM: your Roundup metaphor is bang on!

Love the Roundup metaphor.
Hey that's stuff is still legal?

I watched the Lib wake last night on CTV.It was a good 10 minutes of Iggy-Rae with Sandy Rinaldo having hot flashes.Did you see when they were "interviewing" Prentice,Oliver dissing the minority status instead of mentioning the CPC vote in Ontario. All of a sudden it's a split screen with Rae?
Makes me wonder if the 'powers that be' that made the decision to broadcast the Dion interview last week had other methods to their madness. I was quick to congratulate them for the "we report, you decide" format. Maybe we we a bit naive.
Did they do that with the Canadian voters in mind, or was it for the Iggy-Rae team?
Tell if I'm way off the mark here please.

Beardyscree: "Why don't you try and win with a strong leader."

The answer to your question, Beardyscree, is that the only strong leader is Stephen Harper. Too bad, that--for your argument, that is.

We should start a pool up to see when the second coming (notice I didn't capitalize, that's reserved for the Man Himself) will start being trumpeted through the land. It's coming, the Libs won't be able to help themselves and in doing so a few noses will be put out of joint. Much like invoking the Kennedy name south of the border, the felling of euphoria, the knowledge that surpasses all understanding, the dream that can become a reality. (or is it Obama?)

The CPC has to be ruthless, there is no other way to put it, the Libs are a danger to this country. 30 some years of brainwashing the Canadian population has to end. In the case of Toronto, I don't think an enema would be sufficient.

ET - sorry, but you aren't making any sense. Your assertions are ungrounded in facts; they are just your opinions.

Who is talking about majorities/minorities? Where on earth do you get that from? Obviously, you didn't read what I wrote.

I said Canadians rejected all of the options. Not because of "infrastructures" but because of numbers. The lowest voter turnout in the history of the country. The governing party picks up seats despite winning FEWER votes than 2006. A larger majority of Canadians voted against Harper. That is certainly no acceptance of Harper or his policies as you claim.

He won and he won more seats under our system. He gets to govern and he has a stronger hand in Parliament to do so. That's democracy and it is a good system, so I am fine with that. But that is not the same as saying he has a strong acceptance or even a strong mandate for his policies from the Canadian people. Clearly the message from Canadian voters is that we don't trust any of you though we trust the Greens, the NDP, the Libs and the Cons in that order the least.

To conclude anything else is arrogance.

Where is the Green Party in the U.S. and the environment nut job wacko's to "strategically vote" themselves into oblivion when ya need them?
I was a Bush "supporter" and find McCain a little too wishy washy, he needs a flash back to Vietnam.
Can one snap out of a stalling tail spin?
John "Wayne" McCain can.

Laugh of the week:

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=6708650a-77cc-43fe-9652-7ec6e9b57935

Ellie May, aside from appealing to the Canadian public for funds to prop up the Green Party to help prepare the party "for the next election," made this preposterous statement: "Mr. Dion reminds me very much of Robert Stanfield and I think we may well decide in the future to describe him as the best prime minister we never had."

OH PLEEZE.

Stephane Dion is no Robert Stanfield.

Ted:

Er, based on the popular vote percentages, you've got the order reversed.  Unless you've actually written something incoherent.

Garth

ted - are you posting also as frank4pm? I was reply to him. And I repeat - he wasn't making any sense. Don't be juvenile and copycat my words.

Harper got 38% of the vote; the Liberals got 26% of the vote; the NDP 18%. So, Harper forms the govt. Facts. Therefore, Canadians did not 'clearly' reject Harper's policies. They accepted them.

It isn't the case that you lump all parties into one mass, ie, you don't lump all those that didn't win into 'one' and then say that 'the losers' have now become 'one' and have actually 'won'. That would mean that Chretien had no legitimate right to govern over all those years, because most certainly, his 'majorities', which were only 36%, meant that 64% were opposed to him.

The reality is that we have a party system; each party is presumably different. If the left wants to merge, that's their business but until they do, the voter gets the option of voting for each one - as different. Not as merged. So, you have no right to merge them.

The facts are the the Conservatives won more seats; they also increased their ratios in seats held, before, with wide margins by the Liberals. The Liberal infrastructure is crumbling.

No, I disagree with you that 'clearly' the message from the voters is one of 'low trust'. I think the opposite. Based on the facts of the vote.

Your semantic trick of setting up how Canadians feel, within a set of ordered words is intellecutally dishonest. You've set up the ordering, not as: high trust..medium trust..low trust. But, you've set it up as:..little trust..less trust..least trust. That's manipulative and dishonest.

So, Ted/frank4pm - try again. Heh.

I'm going with situation normal - Ted is incoherent.

No surprise that ET doesn't understand.

ET - Harper got over about two hundred thousand FEWER voters. A majority did not vote for him. The single faction of the Canadian electorate did not vote. Facts. Therefore, Canadians did 'clearly' reject Harper's policies. They did not accept them. The democratic deficit increases.

How can anyone see Harper's vote total go DOWN and conclude that Canadians like him and his policies MORE??? You are being intellectually dishonest.

It is very simple. Poll after poll after poll puts politicians at the bottom in terms of trustworthiness. Harper only goes up - and up by the smallest amounts - in percentages only because Canadians trusted or liked Dion even less, not because they trusted or liked Harper even more. If the latter was the case, then his vote total would have gone UP.

What this shows, unfortunately, is that the only thing that matters to our politicians care far more about beating the other guy than winning over Canadians as a whole. Fair enough: You want power, that's what ya gotta do. Harper learned well at the feet of Chretien.

Don't know why I wasted time on Jason's blog, but from it I mined a few interesting (for me, at least)gems:

"We kept the Conservatives at bay despite a Chinese candidate in a riding with 30% Chinese voters..."

Is this mention of race and apparent inference of voting along the lines of race considered racist?

"I do think Stephen Harper won enough seats to form a government"

How magnanimous, given CPC wins almost twice as many seats as its next largest rival.

"the Liberals and NDP need to agree to start working together in the popular vote so that the Conservatives do not keep coming up on the right. Perhaps the two parties need to join together to bring in electoral reform as their compromise position. They could even start with a short lived coalition government that proposes such a change"

Add the Liberal (76) and NDP (37) seats; the resulting 113 seats are STILL 30 seats fewer than the 143 that the CPC has... Perhaps that is why Jason generously allows that SH has enough seats to form the gov't. Those who wish to complain it's unfair that the combined LIB/NDP popular vote of 44% to the CPC's 38% sees 30 fewer seats should look to the Bloc, whose 10% of the popular vote, at half that of the NDP's 18%, yields it 50 seats compared to the 37 of the NDP...

"In Quebec, we have rebuilt and are now competing with the Conservatives again in French Canada."

Interesting, given the Liberals and MSM were writing off the CPC in Quebec not that long ago...

CBCpravda announces eastern results 1/2 hour early. along with their encouragement of strategic voting this could only be interpreted as a direct try at influencing the election.a criminal investigation should be launched against CBCpravda

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2008/10/15/election-blackout-violations.html#articlecomments

FIRE. THEM.ALL.

Mr. Dion could learn a lot from John Tory. They seem to be joined at the hip as is.

On the idea that the majority "rejected" Stephen Harper: how about adding to the votes for the Conservatives all of those votes that were not cast since those who didn't bother to vote could be considered as "accepting" - if they were "rejecting" they would have gone out and voted against the current government.

Exactly Tarkus. As far as I'm concerned those that choose not to vote are satifided with the present gov. Period.

Satisfied. Sorry!

Frank4PM/Ted:

If we want to be blunt,what it boils down to without all the retoric, Harper handed Dion his ass! It was that simple.

Oh come on, guys, just think of all the fun we could have with Bob Rae that we'd never be able to have with Stephane!

*
BEWARE THE LIBERAL RAINMAN

so i put the "staystephanestay" graphic in my sidebar... i
ACTUALLY LINK to this post... and i still get comments
like...

"But the loudest shrieking of 'Dion must go' comes
from Harper supporters."

i guess cherniak was lying.

*

If McKenna didn't have the cajones to rescue his party when Martin screwed up, he'll hardly be coming in to attempt it now. This will be a process that will require several years. It may even be long enough for Justin Trudeau to grow up.

Martha H-F hasn't got a hope. Like Dion Kingmaker Kennedy she has verbosity gone wild. They backed a losing horse from day one.

It's a badly bankrupted party in every sense of the word. John Manley or McKenna would not be able to fend off the Leftist factions already entrenched. Iggy is about to find out he's out as well.

Rae is the one to finish off the Liberal Party, put 'er in the dumpster. The arrogant, cocksure little man has wind in his sails from his victories in his little Leftist Fiefdom in Toronto. He's the darling of the media of the same bent, they're grooming him already.

Gee, returning to France to live out the rest of one's life is looking better all the time to some people, eh?

Frank4PM, you are dreaming in technicolor.

McKenna would have to be one major masochist to want to jump into the shark tank with the rest of the reprobates.

Oh, and then there's that mini-documentary that was done on him that shows him at the same boardroom table with Bush Sr.

No, ted/frank4 - you are being illogical. You cannot say that a non-vote is equivalent to a vote. In particular, you cannot say that a non-vote is equivalent to a vote FOR Harper. It's not a vote. Period.

As others have pointed out, that non-vote could have been a vote for: Liberal, CPC, NDP, Bloc, Green, Communist, Marxist-Leninist and so on. You cannot say that Nothing is Something.

Try again, Ted/Frank4.

The reality is - that Harper won - and won exactly how he wanted to win. It was a structural or 'internal' win..that changed the infrastructure of the population from one accepting Liberals..to one accepting the Conservative mode..which is decentralist, more power to the people, less socialism and welfare state.
It was a tremendous win.

Try again, Ted, Frank4. And how about using your own words and phrases rather than plagiarizing mine? Hmmm?

We can gauge Mr. Harper's win by the reaction from the Liberals and their fellow Leftist concoctions/parties. Also by the reaction of the media hacks like Oliver who was beside himself. It's really got them scampering off in all directions because his win is a defacto majority and puts the entire Opposition in a very tight bind. They are forced to act responsibly, no room for partisan games.

Now they have rumours flying about Dion soon to announce he's stepping down and that is now denied. They're in one hell of a mess. It's long overdue and they can't blame Dion, they can look to Chretien and Martin, architects of the great divide.

No, ET - you are being illogical.

Obviously you have difficulty with numbers so I'll type this v e r y s l o w l y for you.

You cannot say that FEWER votes is equivalent to MORE support. In particular, you cannot say that a fewer votes is equivalent to more votes FOR Harper or more support for his policies. It's fewer votes and less support. Period.

Try again, ET.

The reality is - that Harper won with less absolute support from Canadians than he did in 2006. Fewer Canadians voted for him in 2008 because fewer Canadians liked him and his policies than in 2006. Please explain to the world how you can claim that Canadians supported him even more in 2008 when he had fewer votes. That was your illogical assertion that started off this "discussion", not mine.

Frank4PM, The voter turnout was abysmal and that may be what we should be talking about. Whatever way you wish to spell it out, Mr Harper won, your Liberals lost, get over it.

As for Frank for PM, I doubt it unless the party is ready to take a huge leap Right. Ditto Iggy. Rae is the man of the hour in Liberal land. If he get's the Booby prize and becomes Leader of the Libs, he should finish them off.

The voter turnout was abysmal and that may be what we should be talking about

Liz: I agree, and that is what I was originally (way up there) responding to. But the jumping monkeys around here seem to think that this is some great triumph for conservativism and proves Canadians support Harper and his "policies", even though fewer Canadians voted for him.

I think and merely keep stating the fact this is a record low total voter turn-out, record low Liberal vote and the winning party received LESS votes than in 2006. To me, this is a problem readers here don't seem to care about because they "won" and a problem Liberals and NDP don't even understand. To me, and what I hear talking with non-partisans and even Conservative voters, is that Canadians are not impressed with anything on the ballot. Definitely more pissed off with Dion and we dodged a bullet on the Green Shift, but no one captured the hearts and minds of Canadians.

A strongly Conservative friend of told me over coffee this morning that (1) there was no way he wasn't going to vote Conservative this time and (2) he's pissed off that Harper spent $300M to get nothing.

There is a growing frustration out there. Harper has shown that he is merely a tactician. He blew his chance for a majority because he is no more than a petty partisan tactician, and he blew it a year ago. He may still have a chance if he can show he cares about all Canadians and good policies (whether left or right), and not just wedge issues and polling demographics. But I think it is beyond his personality.

ted/frank - again, stop using my words and phrases. I repeat, you are illogical. It has nothing to do with numbers but with reality.

You cannot 'count' a 'thing' that doesn't exist. If X number of people didn't vote, you cannot count their votes in any value. You can't say they were for/against/neutral. You can't say anything about what doesn't exist. That's basic reality - unless you want to move into the metaphysical and the magical.

The FACT that fewer people voted in this election doesn't mean less support for Harper. Or more more Dion. Why not? Because we don't know why they didn't vote. So, you can't insert your own opinions as to their reasons. All you can say is that X number didn't vote. Period.

I guess we have different friends; the ones whom I talk with have come up with the same conclusions.

The election was necessary because all Opposition Parties, when called in by Harper, to ask them if they would cooperate this session and get things done - all of them refused. Including Dion, whose Liberals have either missed most of the votes: turned Committees into witchhunts; or inserted silly private bills such as Kyotoism.

What did Harper achieve? A very strong minority, a totally collapsed Liberal Party with no capacity to call a crash election. And, a set of Oppositions who know they have to stop the unproductive stupidity and get down to work and get things done.

PLUS, he changed the electoral infrastructure - the CPC is now rooted almost everywhere; it has increased its ratio even in Liberal strongholds which have won by reduced margins. And the Liberals have been reduced to the bureaucratic cities, stuffed with cocooned govt employees, of Toronto and Montreal.

That's what I and my friends think. You and your friends think differently. Oh well.

Actually, a strong minority is better, now, than a majority. I know you don't understand this, but you must not change an infrastructure by emotion - for that's a fragile change - but internally, Slowly. Incrementally. I know you don't understand this. But, it's far more constructive and stable to make changes this way.

So, ted/frank - what's left for you guys? Canadians don't want your centralism, your nanny state, your Big Govt anymore. Your patronage Senate. Your CBC and its propaganda. It's time for Canadians to grow up and be free of the Mighty Hand of the Totalitarian Liberals. Cheers. Go have another coffee. A latte.

ET: I repeat, you are illogical. It has nothing to do with your fantasy world but with numbers and reality.

You can 'count' a 'thing' that does exist. If X number of people voted a certain way, you can actually count their votes that way. You can actually say they were for or against something. You can say something about what does exist. That's basic reality - unless you want to move into the metaphysical and the magical world of ET World.

The FACT that fewer people voted for Harper means less support for Harper. Why? Because we know how they voted. So, you can't insert your own opinions as facts. Period.

You are obviously too obtuse to understand English. So let me type it e-v-e-n m-o-r-e s--l--o--w--l--y f---o---r y----o----u.

Total votes for CPC, 2006: 5,374,071
Total votes for CPC, 2008: 5,205,334

For most people, 5,374,071 is a number that is greater than 5,205,334. Obviously, ET, you disagree, which is I suppose is your right in this great country.

But to say that MORE Canadians supported Harper because almost 200,000 FEWER Canadians voted for him is, to use the word you obviously don't understand, illogical.

Equally illogical is to conclude that Canadians "don't want your centralism, your nanny state, your Big Govt anymore. Your patronage Senate. Your CBC and its propaganda." when 8,467,377 Canadians voted for, as you would call them, leftist parties. Some Canadians don't, true. Some large minority of voting Canadians don't, this is true too. But not "Canadians" not even a majority.

I don't quibble with Harper's right to govern. That is our system and it has served us well, one of the strongest democracies in the world.

I just point out the absurdity and illogic of claiming that more Canadians supported Harper's policies.

There is a CTV poll to send wrong.

Should Dion go?