Mandatory critical thinking classes might also be nice.

But then you'd be imposing values on students - personal responsibility.

Great idea though.

Sounds like a good idea. But instead of just creating a wholely new course, insert it into a math course. basic stuff like budgetting, loans, interest, the concept of saving for a rainy day and god forbid, even the concept of living within your means.

And it help a great deal if parents(if they have fiscal sense) take a hand in guiding their off spring.

And besides critical thinking,maybe some classes on ethics and morals.Or would that be too close to religion?

Personal Finance in Alberta is about half a class in your manditory career and life management course you have to take in grade 10, They should focus on it more then how to make your portfolio look like you've accomplished something when you havn't.

I had grade 9 math when I went to the work force to earn a living. The people I train and supervisor today do not even have a clue about math, english or literature skills. Glad that a lot of my tax dollars went into teaching them all about liberalism.

There is a great feed anncoulter.com with the news media getting slammed by a grampa from Alaska.

One of the main ideas to get across would be "the power of compound growth". Compound growth is both a boon (when you have money) and a bane (when you are in debt). The "rule of 72" should be understood by all students.

I suspect that many people never get ahead because they do not understand why 20% credit card interest rates are toxic.

Keep the Phys Ed classes. KILL the Sex Ed classes.

That's all.

What? Introduce tools for personal well being and responsibility? That won't fit in the leftarded socialist Canada I know. That's the government's job isn't it?.

Back in the mid-80s, when I attended high school (in British Columbia), there was a mandatory year-long course called Consumer Education for grade ten students. It covered a variety of topics to from different types of loans (bank loans vs. finance companies), to vehicle purchases, how not to get scammed, etc.

Not sure if that course still exists in the BC curriculum.

Well considering the obesity epidemic, and the fact that diabetes is relentlessly increasing in both Canada and the United States, I don't see how getting rid of phys ed is a good idea.

My elder daughter just started her first year of high school. Granted, she's in a special program, but all she basically gets are English, French, history, geography, math, and science (and gym). I think she gets some electives in grades 11 and 12, but they will probably be "Advanced Placement" (AP) classes. AP classes in math and science are generally accepted as a first-year credit at most universities in Canada and the US, and she can get enough of those to basically skip first year, and go right to second. Considering she wants to go to Princeton, there's $60,000 saved! But I don't see what I would want her to drop to get a Personal Finance Management (PFM) class.

And to me, the bigger issue is how can you teach PFM without teaching economics first? And then you'll run into the socialist wall that pervades teaching, where concepts like the stock market, bond market, etc. will be decried as "evil exploitation", ruinous taxation will be lauded as "make the rich pay", etc.

But actually, Captain, you've given me an idea! I'm going to put together a course, and advertise it locally "Personal Finance For Teens". I wonder how many parents are willing to pay $75 to prepare their kids to look after their own finances?

from grade 10, 11 and 12 in high school

Add some sbjects to main subject to save time and made more understandable and motive student to like the course by emerging two to three course together life is short why wast in know alot while we need to know from each in small later in universtiy we can learn it more

1) English

add (communication and psychology, journalism and LAW and politic in Canada )to English course to learn subject or reading is not only reading shekspear or novel but also learn more important subject of reading with it I just said example

2) Science course

put( math and bilogy and physic, chemstry )together because in fact today life people must know it alland link it all to learn it better and enjoy read physic not hate it and later in grade 12 the student who like to go to pharmacy and phsycian take bilogy and people who like to go to engineering degree take math course or etcc only in grade 12 made it mor focus to subject

I like physic and chemstry and math as my best subject I hate bilogy courses alway

3) put computer and then put (economic and and computer progrmaing and accounting and spreed sheet) join with it and all other fincialy by teach them how to use computer to again studne learn use of typeing skills and math

4) phycial education is good for keep kid has healthy body
teach them vaiety of course depend of shapeof bodyof each kid if kid is tall go baskbeal if it is short go soccer or hocky or etc.. have good gyme teacher

5) information techonolgy ( computer progrming, datas collection, economics, scocilogy)
---

put these course as kid to made thier own choic
kid can take two more course by their own choice every year

world relgion, extra lanaguage ( spanish, French), engineering design, mechnical handy work wearing hard hat , labortary assiant work wearin white lab coat, and etc...

in grade 12 math can go to more detail
Geometry, algebra and etc,, in more dtail course seperae from each other

made the book similar in all school regular in main subject and get option course can be change by teacher by otehr teacher

still canda need teh team and study all change in sutdy by research world classes
like chinaa and USA England are high in education and theorty in middle East is high not in pratical course that team must research before made final changes in education of canada but knwo what method is the best here

made some course for afternoon for after hour progrma well too

college need to get more practically for two years for kids to able to work if tehy want
and university for 4 years
if kid has mark above B+ can go to university without going to college
if kid are GPA is bellow B mark they need to go to college before take the university course

master degree more in upgrad undergraduaete course
and phd for more research for science and etc for another two to 4 years depend on courses

puting so many course to your head without using is wast time energy and brain cell and money with no direction
job canada must ask how many student if they graducate can find the job with direction too
like supply chain of food a to z
from kindergarden to phd and job placement all job must be human resources spelcaist help to tell university what subject is need to foce to let sutdnet learn more those subject and find more job and do not wast employer to spend more later to teach them start from a all courses again link bettwen political education and job and univerity is needed and choose the course is basd on what people weakness in civil and criminla and other job was needed more research

When I took my Mining Technologist and Electronics Technician courses, alot of the kids never understood why we had to take physics and high end calculus courses. At least when we started. They understood why at the end.

It teaches a logical and methodical approach to solving problems. A system that has lead to a large bank account and a house three years from ownership, ten years after it was bought.

If even a watered down version of that training could be made compulsory...... wow!

Oh, and leave the mandatory Phys Ed in. Remove all school sport teams and put the money and energy into proper physical training. There is absolutely no excuse other than a real physical imparement, for someone finishing high school and not being able to run a mile and a half in under ten minutes. They can do it in just seven weeks in Recruit training. Ought to be a breeze in 3 or 4 years of high school.

the number one impediment to implementation would be the teachers not wanting to be shown up as being inept at personal financial management.

As a product of secondary school education in the early '60's, let me tell you that the course studies prepared you for the skills you needed to deal with adult life, whether it be personal finances or other life skills needed to live a responsible,productive and satifying life.
I believe the system has abrogated the teaching of those skills and has chosen to inculcate youth with a sense of entitlement and a warped view of
rights, without obligations.
Education should be about teaching skills, and let the individual student bear the responsibility for not employing them.
I'm sick and tired on living in a culture of victimization.

Along the same lines as Gord Tulk, I don't think we'd be able to find teachers who are qualified to teach such a course.

I suppose that's nothing new. I've yet to see a public school teacher qualified to teach math. Not as far as practical application, anyway.

teacher need to get trained before do any changes
or bring specilis from USA to train teacher
or hire teacher assitant in some days who able to full fill the topic exsting techer not able to teach
when you hire teacher put them in one to two year to teach them new courses and how to teach hiring new grad is not good with no job skills and experince

now big coperation to go privat instuture to teach their employee so many coursed the school and universtiy can do too

some course like math is need to teach by master degree student or gradute school to let kid know theproblmes solving too
home work is important too

I was lucky in that department dp. I had a great math teacher for two years of high school. Of course that was almost 30 years ago. GG 30 years!!

Anyway, I see him once a year as he canvasses for the Canadian Cancer Society. He is still teaching high school math and I bet he is still making it interesting and relevent.

new:

too long, didn't read

AtlanticJim- You were very fortunate. I had a couple of those rare teachers, but not a math teacher. I encountered a great math teacher in an upgrading course. He was a retired professor, and DND employee. He had some great shortcuts to show me, from his experience during the war. I think he's passed on.

30 years ago? 34 for me.

No one ever does KevinB.

Just lots of wasted ones and zeros.

I agree AtlanticJim. Where's the SDA filter?

Maybe they could "madate" spelling, too.

Give Kate credit, she knows that no one actually reads new/mos/whateverheistoday's posts.

Think of it as burning micro calories as we scroll wheel by ;)

The Captain and I think along the same lines although I do see a need for PE -- burns off excess energy and builds strength and self esteem -- hey call me crazy! I'm amazed that personal finance (understanding credit terms, simple contract law, compound interest, basic economics, statistics etc) are not at least a one year requirement if not two.

AlanticJim, I disagree...I'm going to go and read some "Shieksphere" now...:)

The "Think Tank" in AB Education (that tell the politicians what do do) pretty much gutted what used to be a very good business education program. This started in the early '80s and didn't take long to accomplish.

IMO, thinking at that time was revolving around the fact that hmmmm, perhaps we shouldn't have so many young people ready for the market place at age 18 (which in particular the gals taking a solid program were)... we must start and support the Junior Colleges system/programs. It was done and is still ongoing. AB Ed has been moving away from the apprenticeship based programs in public schools(only a few schools were authorized to teach these anyway)as fast as they can build new schools.

In their "wisdom" the Thinkers moved most all of this to the junior colleges and the results are quite apparent.

Parents now have to send their young people to a junior college in one of the five major cities for another one or two years training. The cost is not only in tuition but is much higher for the cost of living while attending away from home.

Spaces are limited in junior colleges so many capable students aren't even getting in these days. Those on apprenticeship programs are getting hung out to dry because of not enough spaces in the junior colleges to do their schooling even though they have their hours in. A whole lot more could be, and should be, done in the public schools to get the students ready for life/careers.

Having one mickey mouse course taught by a teacher who has neither the interest nor the talent for doing so is not the answer.

Unless a student is on a full university entrance program, there really isn't much for courses. And Dave Hancock (minister of Education) is making noises that business should not hire students who don't have completed grade 12.

There are those people who are wondering why the schools other than the Public Schools are succeeding and becoming ever increasing in numbers.

Never use foreign languages in their whole lives? That's a joke.
This ain't 1800. My stepson, the quintessential engineer, living outside Hamilton, uses French and German on a daily basis. That's the world as it is and as it will be.

Learning something about financial management is a good idea. We did, in fact learn some of the basics in math class in Alberta, back in the `50s. Ben Franklin, who was as shrewd a man as it is possible to be, recommended that training in financial management be part of the schooling of every girl. He probably assumed that the men would learn something of it in due course.

Yep, an improvement in spelling is required, both for the Captain, and for new-mos-haye-food-something. In the latter case, perhaps we could jack up its scalp and roll a new turnip into place.

Nobody should be allowed to graduate from high school if they cannot pass an exam which shows that they have at least a glimmer of understanding in a few basic life skills. Things like the basics of contract law, personal financial management, basic consumer awareness, etc. And yes, basic sex education should be a part of it. Nothing says "welfare bum" more than being a single mother at age 17, does it? And there's nothing wrong with teaching the little darlings that keeping their legs together is a cheap and effective means of birth control, either.

Teach the economic component in mathematics classes, even at the expense of teaching some of the college-prep sort of math like calculus and linear algebra. Those subjects are better taught to those who want to learn them for the purpose of pursuing a higher education; all students need to learn about compound interest and how to make a budget.

As far as physical education goes, I'd say to shit-can all the team sports, except as extra-curricular activities. These tend to be very time-consuming, so only the very dedicated get involved. I'd say, use the "classroom" time assigned to phys-ed for things like walking or running. Use that 40 minutes to take the entire class on a 3-mile walk. You wouldn't even need a "phys-ed" teacher to manage it, either. Rotate it through the entire teaching staff. Teachers need exercise, too. Point being, WALKING for recreation and/or exercise is something available to nearly all of us for our entire life. Soccer or football may be fun for many (and exquisite misery for the few real non-athletes), but once out in the world of work, opportunities to participate become scarce due to time constraints.

Could be a problem Captain. See, a course on personal finance would require students be able to read. Oh, and count.

Reading and counting are against union rules.

First bring back Latin as obligatory, that way you have the edge in biology, medicine, the legal system , prescriptions, even horticulture, as the main terms & usages are from Latin.
Its why this course is compulsory at Ivy league Colleges. By not learning your options shrink. This language is used to segregate people into disciplines.

Next make the learning of history, particularly your Nations a major course. I would include civics as well as a major. Also a history of Religions. Math should be Number 1. As well English with real western classics, with only a few non western authors. Not as it is today hither & yon all over, with anti-west tomes.

Financial management is just another term for more socialist indoctrination by way of economics if taught today. This is usually done at present through Social studies. Its a good idea if taught properly. I would include the safe use of guns as well.

The whole Education system should be overhauled from Administration to Janitors. Without abrasive Union impute by the Communists who run them boastfully .

teach personal responsibility and get rid of the me me me attitude in society and the rest will happen on it's own

we have mayor D Miller in TO, a Harvard economics grad, and the only thing he can manage is a financial disaster

I agree KevinB. I think it would be a good idea to teach personal financial management with presentations from Bankers, Financial officers etc. I know I learned one heckuva lot from a one afternoon personal financial management presentation I got in the armed forces.
The risk with teaching economics is exactly the risk of taking the topic and turning it over to members of the teacher's union who will either be utterly ignorant of the subject, or worse, spew out the lefty/Fabian BS that has run country after country into the economic gutter.
Keep the phys ed though -- and make it mandatory through to the end of university. I'm having a hard enough time managing the 400-pounders we already have.

What's the point when government is driving the economy into a '29 style depression?

The government is? Really? Gonna have to explain that one der Rosco.

Mayor Miller in Toronto may graduate from Harvard university in Economics so

in school you know the answer book and you have teacher if you are in Havard you are lucky most likely has good professor too

when you graduate and become Mayor you get the question on his desk first then he must find the answer second later by have hiring lots of employees to work for him togive him data and find answer and has good team of managers like a teacher explain and anlys teh data for him to pass his test as Mayoer well

he needs to hire good human resources team and have good manage and VP and good employee and link with so many people to find his puzzle to get solved

even if he is jenous which is he does not look like ithe talk more than act

then still he need to have so many people to help him find his answer for his question
and anylsis

in real life how to use all courses taken and use in practically is importatn only people in phd doing good job in research and find so many question get answered by know how to problmes solver as the good skills he need to have one
takeing course made you smart to let your brain cell is working take physical ed made your body healthy but all done above do not made you to act smart ( as Mrs> May said not stupid) all the time it only give you degree, not skills to use

My two kids are in a junior high with an outstanding fitness program. They do an hour a day with a focus on fit-for-life. Team sports are there but most of it is around building fitness.

Its one of the outstanding elements of this school. As the Greeks said, you need a sound body to have a sound mind.

Probably the best way to teach your kids about Personal Financial Management and Financial Responsibility is to actually practice it yourself.

Xenophon’s only true Socratic discourse, the Oeconomicus, is a dialogue between Socrates and a gentleman-farmer on the art of household management and the art of farming as practiced on a gentleman’s estate. It is generally acknowledged to be the oldest surviving work devoted to “economics,” and it constitutes the classic statement of “economic” thought in ancient Greece.

The dialogue examines the roles of husband and wife in the household and the division of labor between them, and considers the duties of the farm steward and the housekeeper. It discusses the goals of efficient management and the means for attaining these goals.

http://www.staugustine.net/xenophonssocratesdiscourse.htm

As a school administrator, I have been doing some consulting on a financial planning/awareness curriculm that was unveiled in Montreal not 10 days ago and is set to be released by September 24th.

This curriculum was developed by the BC Securities Commission and adapted by the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada to fit into most Math/Economics/Career and Personal Planning/Life Transitions curriculums in most provinces.

FCAC is a government agency that recieved money from the Conservative government to improve on the financial literacy of students.

I believe you can see the program, called The City, on themoneybelt.ca or follow links from the FCAC website. It is their hope that all provincial departments or Ministries of Education mandate the teaching of these topics as soon as possible and is involved in discussions with many of them to do just that.

More forward thinking from your Conservative Government.

Basically this can be done in five minutes:

Money you earn - money you spend

should equal

a positive number or balanced budget.

" And yes, basic sex education should be a part of it. Nothing says "welfare bum" more than being a single mother at age 17, does it? And there's nothing wrong with teaching the little darlings that keeping their legs together is a cheap and effective means of birth control, either."

GORDINKNEEHIIL

Seventeen year old women have been having babies since the beginning of time. Human arrogance leads us to believe that we can change a woman's biological clock with "education". I will concur that "Nothing says "welfare bum" more than being a single mother at age 17"; but I won't put that blame solely on the young woman. This is a result of the rift between men and women that the Baby-Boomers have created by setting a poor example of how men and women are suppose to work together.

This would never work. You'd have to spend 5 years explaining it to the average teacher to enable them to explain it to a child for one.

My wife excepted, she's a SCOTTISH teacher! ;)

As for subjects to jettison, we need Gym class. There are enough fat kids out there. Try getting rid of earth day and the Al Gore movie of the week, "social[ist] studies" and French instead.

Oh, and to loosely paraphrase another good Scot (Scot-American actually) from memory:

Happiness:
Income 100,000
Expenses 99,000

Misery:
Income 100,000
Expenses 101,000

Lesson:
Spend less than you make or suffer.

What irks me is that it doesn't have to be complicated--it simply comes down to not spending it if you don't have it. The only reason I have a credit card is for travelling and emergencies. Keep a thorough list of all your income and expenses and make sure you are putting some money away every month for retirement, travel, emergencies. That's it. I think people spend waaaayyyyy too much time coveting what others have, always wanting something bigger and better. Comparing your life/financial situation to others is a huge waste of time and money. Many people waste their ownb lives away while always pining for what others have--sad, really.

LOL !!!

oh man. I popped in to my old alma mater 2 yrs ago and sarcastically enquired did they set aside any class hours yet for practical stuff like the paramount rule of buying real estate (never sign ANYTHING until you talk to a real estate attorney), or all the steps necessary to buying a car, (and no, the first step isn't to make a dash to your daddy's friend's car lot with a blank cheque).

I was shown the door.

couple months later I mailed a note to 'head of english department' 'suggesting' that the Shakespeare play Hamlet had NOTHING to do with an oedipus complex but if they absolutely insisted, then gee, WHY NOT TELL ALL THE ATTENTIVE STUDENTS WTF AN OEDIPUS COMPLEX IS so that it isn't just the 'smart kids' that leap into the discussion.

didn't get any reply to my suggestion.

as far as the lesson in budget mgmt, class size is going to swell uncontrollably when you pull in the administration of just about every government on the planet, especially our american friends who have racked up a national debt bigger than in all human history.

So the new generation is going to hell in a hand basket, things were better in the good old days, and I'm curious when the last time anybody spouting here has looked at a curriculum.

At least in Alberta we do have courses teaching budgeting, resume building, etc. The problem is that, like courses on nutrition, or phys ed, they are courses that are not given much weight. High Schools remain geared towards University, and any course that is not English, Math, Social Studies or Science will remain a secondary priority.

Social studies includes basic economics (Grades 6 and 9), Functions of Government, including basic civics (Grades 6 and 12), Basic Politics and the Political Spectrum (Grade 12). Math includes a statistics course that was more difficult than Stats 101 at University, and a component on mortages and interest, including compound interest (Grade 12). Most of the rest, including more advanced financial management, languages, contract law and the like can be taken as electives.

I wonder why people, who believe it's a parent's responsibility to teach their children morals, sex ed, and a hundred other things the government shouldn't be doing, suddenly blame the government for their negligence in teaching financial management. Quite simply, if you force your kids to keep a fairly simple balance statement when young, and teach (and practice) basic financial responsibility, they'll be fine. Treat your house as your own personal ATM, and no half-assed course is going to fix 15-20 years of bad habits.