Is this a joke?

Well, that's nice but, um, the victims were Muslims right?

We all anxiously await similar solidarity protests against the slaughter of infidels but we shan't hold our breath!

We (the west) get no thanks when we help muslims, no grief when we're slaughtered by them. That is the natural order of things in the dar al Islam.

I second Me No Dhimmi's remarks. We saw no such protests after 9/11, or Bali, or Madrid, or Beslan. If slaughtering schoolchildren, who didn't happen to be Muslim, didn't provoke decent human outrage among Muslims, that says something very important, disgusting and important. Muslim empathy for the suffering of non-Muslims caused by Muslims in the name of Islam seems to be missing.

"We need to show the world that Muhammad is the prophet of peace ... not pieces!"

Umm, err, as it was said, the religion of peace being spread one car bomb at at time! Need I comment further...

The 700 men and boys of the Jewish Banu Quarazya tribe, whose heads were chopped off by Muhammad; the assassinated poets; the victims of his personal lust and rape and countless others would agree that Muhammad was no prophet of peace.

Do they(Muslims) believe that we are that stupid? A little investigation into the Koran and the way that it goes, it is a bloodbath! Mohammud`s time in Medina was all about killing infidels and unbelievers! The way Islam is regarding the Koran, is that the later teachings supercede anything before it. That is why Islam is so ridiculous. It is all about killing everyone who is not Islamic and those who will not convert!

I don't believe they are sincere. They are posing for the West. If we believe them we will sympathize with them and that is a tool of jihad.

Yum...satire.

I love satire.

Or, we could just say "thank you for your concern" and then ask them to stop these kinds of things from ever happening again as a sign of good faith.

I won't hold my breath though.

I should add that our system is based on lies too. All our politicians lie to us all the time.

That said, we should just have an all out war with them to see which liars will run this planet.

The only other protest of any consequence by muslims, against terror, was the bombing of a wedding party in Jordan another one when the victims were also muslims.

It is ok for Muslims to massacre other Muslims, you will not see Canadian Muslims protest, if they do it will to blame the U.S. (Haroon Siddiqui style), maybe Pakistan needs a 'surge'

...Islamabad eh.

Fitting name.

On a positive note, this may put a little steel (no pun intended) in Pakistan's leadership. Nothing like a little homestyle taste of the Taliban's lunacy to convince the fencesitters.
Pretty stupid on the Taliban's part, actually; now they can fight a two front battle for survival. I'm betting that their friends in the Pak. intelligence community will be less than amused.

Pakistan and new presidnet of Pakistan and
also Dubai and Saudi Arabi and link with USA

link with Afganstan and link with republican and all money goes to Pakistan and power of taht area stalking

jsut think about it
read history from

http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/archives/009568.html#comments

and also read
:

read the rest from below sites!!
--- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Afghanistan_(February_2003)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Timelines_of_the_War_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%93present)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%93present)

who teach that area freedom ha ha Republican

To what end will these Heathens go to garner a bit of Western sympathy?
I call BS on all this. It is simply a ploy to play to the sympathies of the Western world. After all, these animals use retarded children to
self-explode in order to kill non-beleivers. What's 60 or so Mohammedans when you are fighting a global jihad? This faux condemnation
is nothing more than a staged act designed to suit their current agenda.

One needs no imagination if this had happened not in Islamabad, but lets say Toronto or L.A. Does anyone seriously entertain there would have been any marches of solidarity for the Kaffirs? At least it shows they can be stung when their own are hurt.

Although I do think some intelligent Muslims have started to figure out where these acts of horror are going to
lead their Religion to in the future. To mass revolt by non-Muslims, than latter exiled to a peripheral nature when their money runs out fuel the expansion with funds from Oil, or worse a nuclear fireball in the middle of Mecca & Medina.
They have not figured out yet what the West means by Total war with no HUDNA.

I don’t trust this at all. They are pretending this is for the infidel, but really it’s a message to their own not to attack “innocent” Muslims. That they are fed up with being collateral damage in Dar Islam by the warrior wing of Islamism. Its propaganda wrapped in a message to the armed branch of this Death Cult to leave off on their own.

Ah, but notice how no Jooooooos were on staff at the Marriot at the time of the blast.

Time to get out the chicken wire and liquid barbecue starter to prove this is the work of the international Zionist conspiracy! Troof to power!

What's another explosive(Bin)laden truck bomb anyway? Just another confused moslem, erh, confused jihadist, erh, confused terrorist. Well SOMEONE got confused following in the sunnah of the (murderer for) profit mohamed,MPBUH(may a pair of sexually active porcupines be upon him.
Just another wild and whacky day in "dar al salami"

Salami 'n' Bacon you all!

It may take them many years to garner any sympathy,and more importantly any trust from the Western World. At this juncture they can go to hell until they spend at least a lifetime pulling themselves out of the Stone Age and proving they're ready to be part of the civilized world.

It's all down to trust and they've lost it big time.

It was attacks like this in Iraq and how the coalition forces responded that helped turn the tide and win the war.

Now is not the time to turn our backs on moderates who speak out against the violence of the radical fringe.

Now is the time to say "See we told you so. These nutjobs are your enemy just as much as they are ours. Work with us as your brothers did in Iraq and let's purge them from your society as we did in Iraq."

You're being sarcsitic...right?

You're being sarcasitic...right?

I'm with most of the rest of you on this issue.

Until they hit the streets when innocents are killed in the western world, then they show their true colours.

It's not like they're against these violent asswipes when they strike targets in the western world.

They only get outraged when their idiot brothers strike against others in purported Muslim countries.

Once they figure out their so-called religion is a means to control the rest of humanity, then I'll believe their sincerity.

There is only one race ... the human race and the Islamic extremists are not part of it.

As i said in my comments
USA always choose bad feinds and give gun to child or women or dummies to go kill

if you see result of any place USA enterd for bring peace and security there
we never see anything excetp all BS and vilienc more there

from the time of Republican start from Vitenam and then Russia then Isral tehn Afgan then Pakestain
if you study the probems in Afganstan

before 2001 waa
druge
poor coutnreis
abuse of "WAHABIEE msulim linke with Saudi"

now if you go to Pakisan and Afgante you are fight for yourlife everywhere no security at all
even if you cover it with TOubeh and all long dres withwomen still you may get killed

in matter of fact

when USA give all weapon nd not do real person to court and do justice
tehn army of corrptied of Pakistna is teh firs person cna be blame who are in touch and shkae hand with BUSH give them weapon to kill

the hisoty happend when his father also give SAamad weapn for kill and instead of take care they take care of all Muslim and noMuslim blow up

as you can see in htat hotel msut be Muslim and NonMuslim say there

in sep 11 muslim and noMjslim are both are killed
but
raher than journalim find real criminla

look for those bitxxx Catholic women fight over beach bikin paries with Muslim men in revenge

not to find real person behidn this

if crime happend always USA nd hter army is there too

if you took the math and

know share of all those events and army + gun +
USA you can see those words was tehre

plus

you can not treat people calm down by weapone
you made them more agrreisive to kill more
sionce not know the culture
this is not security Bush and USA hope or tak
taht is put all Muslim and noMuslim in treat now

this is real BS
and as we heard from presidnet of Pakisnt if he nees more mney he blos one thing up to say
I tiold you send me antoerh billion Mr. BUSH

we told you we need security

Republican and all army corrpted directed by Bush since 2001 destory all Muslim and Ialam as word for their bit women of htem to fight us not to cathc real crimial becaue real criminal is
Americna culture not Muslim for sure
Muslim are not guilty here or Islam
hat is bs of WEST culture lead to this

if they are not stop their wrong direction
nobody I am telling you nobdy cna leave in peace not Muslim not even Muslim not even animals
read history of even in afgnatan and you can see how they start from small to bigger worse ugly fight never stop yet

rather than put human with id and passport and figer print

I have suggestion
that every singel parts of gun and danger device need to have licence and inventory check

it means if certain inventory used in certain events what is left over and who keep it this way like bith certificate for bomb devioced

if some thing get stolen you know teh inventory form this factory was taken and knwo he source of it

more than keep track of human keep track of device and barcode them this way you can find who and when and where teh inventory of gund are there and who creat and built it

barcod sysem can get help that to find how USA amery may behidn this mess too as tehy were behind this in Sep 11 too I gues I amnot sure

this is war this is not Islam on trial
thisis BUSH and Paksiani govement on Trial now

tehy msut report details how??

So, here are two responses to prove the point.

Islamic dickheads blow up a hotel in Islamabad and it's George Bush's fault.

What kind of freakin' crack are you on, idiot mos?

Biff:

If you are referring to me, no I am not.

None other than Gen Petraeus has talked about using situations like this to make headway in the counterinsurgency war. It is concrete evidence to the local populous that the radicals do not have their interests at heart.

This is the same methodology used in the latter stages of the Vietnam war under general abrams that was turning the tide in favour of the south vietnamese until a petty dirty-trick break-in at the watergate crippled executive american support for vietnamization. Petraeus was a disciple of Abrams.

Is their allegiance suspect? Perhaps. But keep in mind the level of indoctrination and pressure that they have been under for years now from the radicals. Any sign of a change of heart against these fanatics has to be applauded and supported. It's what works and it's what amplifies the effectiveness of intelligence and the lethality of the next counterstrikes.

set you free again, I thought you said taht you are spokewomen for lesbian in Canada and thier prays for walk show game tell us we want to coem and watch you walk naked to say go girl go!!
--

this is hard to stop bi women in Canda to stop talk to you they will back for it
==
All today prolems among Muslim are
racist bs people like you set you free

exactly is BUSH and Canadiana and American women fault

but you are too dum head to get it

drug made in Afgan but you people liek set you free are consumer of those druge we see it in medai every day

all is racist and hate word against Muslim and Islam cause this problems today

do not bumb them to eat and kill Mr. BUSH feed thos poor instead Paki are poor need food
not hotel for your welcom Madona Catholic bit try French, Itlain and Irish and Spanish all men by Madona catholic women!

The response here is so predictable, its almost laughable.

Why is it so hard for you folk to admit that you are just like them? You claim they want to see you annihilated, but I dont think it is a stretch of the imagination to suggest that you want the same.

When they make a show of solidarity, it is dismissed for being insincere (ironic, since it stands to logic that if they dont value your lives, they probably don't value your opinion), or too late. They have to be pushed back into their cages so that we can be reminded how they want to kill us. Solidarity? Nope, they cant be trusted. They want to kill us. What do we want to do? Kill them, but most of us don't want to admit that out loud, since it would tacitly admit that we are no better than they are.

Only dogs bark at dogs.

A deeper analysis of this situation, which rarely appears on a website like this, tells a different story. We have many scholars of Islam here, but few scholars of geopolitics apparently.

This attack represents a new dimension of attacks and its going to have repercussions. Militants were killing Pakistani muslim soldiers long before this happened. This attack took it one step further. Make no mistake about it - the aim of this attack was to include into the targetted population the Pakistani elite, which like most elites globally, is western-educated, highly educated and generally of a more secular, even leftist leaning. Indeed rumor in Pakistan has it that one floor of the Serena Hotel in Islamabad is booked out every friday by the government, with the more prominent members going there to drink alchohol in a country where alchohol is illegal. They play their games with strategic issues, not religion, in mind.

I needn't bore you with General Mirza Aslam Beg or Hamid Gul's plans for Pakistani 'strategic depth' in Afghanistan - the very same policies that spawned the crazies who committed these acts. Some blame Zia for Islamizing Pakistan, and he did, but the Islamism was introduced to Pakistan by his predecessor, Benazir Bhuttos father Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, who introduced it to give an identity to a country reeling after humiliation in a war that saw half of its territory become an independent nation. These elites controlled the militants once, serving as their political patrons. Then 2001 happened and things changed. Nevertheless, the elites were rarely if ever targetted. Sure there were attacks on the President and Prime Minister, but those attacks were aimed for symbolic value - families were never targetted. Given the destruction wrought, one wonders why the suicide bomber didnt drive 500m ahead and hit the PM's house.

The reason is simple. The fast would have been broken at this point. Pakistan's ordinary folk dont frequent five star hotels. Pakistan's elite do. All three halls in the hotel were full up. Thats when the bomber struck.

Frankenstein has turned on the master. This is the first real challenge to the elites - the message is clear - the elites are the enemy now. The President and Prime Minister were just one or two members of the elite - and their family members were never targetted. Now its open season.

Of course this has nothing to do with the marches that followed - I am as surprised by them as anyone else, but this is the stuff that you ought to be looking out for. This is the real first challenge to the power brokers - they now know that their families are being targetted. The terrorist sympathizers are going to be weeded out - everyone knows who they are, but the security of being an elite - being above it all - has protected these sympathisers for far too long. To put it mildly, terrorism may have hit too close to home, and its probably going to galvanise the people who matter the most in Pakistan - the power brokers.

Lots of information compressed into very little space I know, but feel free to reply if you disagree on the substantive points. And please avoid namecalling.

Just the kind of guys people would trust to lead Pakistan into the brave new future once the ruling elites are all assassinated?

set you free
do not worry , you go do your lesbi*nn pray show,
Muslim can take care of the coutnrey

just tell NonMusim get out of their system tehy know how to fix it
tehy do not want you to tell htem what to do

we only waiting BUSH and republican go then Muslim handle the rest

tehy do not ned your money plus+ your bomb.
Muslim prefer to stay poor but stay alive. thanks

And then you wonder ;

Thanks for the info on Pakistan & this attack on their elites.

I seen the exact same thing happen to Iran to begin with in the 70's before the Shah fled. Most here no doubt have as well. The intrigue you so well writer about is just another factor in the game. That we all assume other already know.

What I was trying to impress on people is this time ordinary folks are not willing as they where to go along with the damage this inflicts on them as Muslims by Muslims. As for us kefirs well this has nothing really to do with us. Do you honestly think they care when the Koran goes out of its way to hate the non-believer. lol. That’s naive in the extreme. Perhaps the elite mobilized people but I doubt it.
You can bet they know the game plan all to well by these murders & want none of it visited on themselves as has happened in any country who has fallen to the Islamists. Islam is a political movement allied with religion, born of a desert pirate . Rooted in the seventh century which have impeded these folks for centuries. The political joined with the religious creates a form of hydrophobic rage culturally. It deifies as tribalism as well. By its very nature its anti technological. Perhaps why you lefties love them so.

"Of course this has nothing to do with the marches that followed"

Okay, Mr. wonder, I'll try not to call you names. These marches didn't happen; the post was a hoax to illustrate the lack of outrage that takes place when muslims kill other muslims, compared to how outraged they get about every other alleged slight.
Do you really think an angry muslim marcher in Paris made a pun about pieces and peace?
Get it?

Andrew, yes. He cjunk wrote the satire to highlight the hypocrasy of the UN meeting the day before.

Kate you must be hearing a lot of crickets in Delisle this evening. Either way your prose is nothing short of genius.

As a suggestion, over at Ace of Spades HQ, their comment section has a little hash routine which display a users IP address in code. For example, User CountrySquire code is "e910j". If he posts under a different name the code remains the same. It is a useful tool to quickly identify some of the AstroTurf and sock puppet commentators.

My apologies Cjunk, I thought Kate wrote this. Take it as a compliment that your writing is getting as good as Kate's.

Perhaps.

It could also be the Taliban letting the Pakistani government know that they won't sit idly by while American military incursions into Pakistan continue, with little protest.

The Pakistani government has been playing both sides of the fence for some time now. Pakistan invented the Taliban to leverage and strengthen their regional political interests and to stop India's diplomatic efforts into Afghanistan. Despite that, they've been the benefactors of billions in US aid as 'allies' in the war against terror. Never doing more than as little as possible - enough to keep the aid pouring in - all the while supporting their Taliban creation through the ISI.

mos///,

The ideology of Islam obviously pre-dates Bush, not to mention the US. The problems today are the same problems and atrocities the world has witnessed over the past 1350 years.

Islam and it's author, Muhammad aka Allah, is the problem.

So take your silly argument and go elsewhere.

Well, you buffaloed me lol (O:} Good going!

My ideas still stand though if there had been real marches I would have thought the same. No way do they care for non-Muslims. From what I see little more for them. Its a power game.

"link with republican " That sure didn't take long.

Well of course it's Dubya's fault. C'mon, the world was sweetness and light before he became POTUS. Before him, there was no war, just love everywhere, especially in the White House.

AQ didn't exist until he was sworn in. Afghanistan and Iraq were beacons of human rights, living in perfect spiritual harmony.

Of course, once he leaves, the world will revert back to its pastoral peace. Just ask Mike Moore; he'll tell you.

Unless McCain wins that is.

"These marches didn't happen; the post was a hoax to illustrate the lack of outrage that takes place when muslims kill other muslims"

Given the posts above, I clearly wasn't the only one fooled. Besides, I didnt find it too hard to believe, given that Muslims have, in the past, marched against terrorist bombblasts in places like Bangladesh, and as recently as last week, following the Delhi bomb blasts in India. I don't know if cjunk knows about either, nor do I care.

Revnant Dream,

I have heard plenty about Islam and kafirs, but the attitude is so different in differnet parts of the world, that I am reluctant to put a big green crescent flag across the Muslim world. Where there are wahabis, there are also Sufis. They have very differing approaches to non-believers in particular, as any scholar of Islam would know.

Yes the Wahabi strand is quite retarded, and proliferating dangerously fast, but to try and treat Muslims like a bloc is to draw to make a serious error in judgment.

In Pakistan's particular context, the identity crisis problem has been an issue since the very beginning. The Savoy Row suited and allegedly pork-eating 'father' of Pakistan made it clear in his speeches that he saw Pakistan as a secular state. So did his successor, Liaqat Ali Khan, who was shot dead before he could make an impact. Since then the Pakistani establishment has been in a perpetual state of turbulence - military dictatorship after dictatorship. All in a very secular country mind you - Stephen Cohen of the Brookings institution has written a brilliant book about how the military was initially secular but gradually became Islamic, particularly during the rein of Zia.

When Zulfikar Ali Bhutto came into power, he inherited a nation that had ostensibly been created for Muslims, but which had been torn apart by regional conceitedness. The Punjabi attitude towards the Bengalis was the key instigator of the Civil war and the two-week war with India that followed. Bhutto was not religious - he was a heavy drinker. But he famously banned alcohol, and deliberately promoted Zia because Zia was a devout Muslim. Zia overthrew and hang him, but it is worth noting that he did not enact any major reforms till Reagan turned to him. With the inflow of money from the Wahabis and the US, Zia finally played his card, by enacting the infamous Nizam e Mustapha reforms that have turned Pakistan into the hellhole that it is. It was his successor General Beg, and his trusted lieutenant Hamid Gul, who conspired to create the Taliban to take control of Afghanistan to provide 'strategic depth' to Pakistan- basically turning Afghanistan into a place to regroup if India ever launched an invasion of Pakistan. Iran was, and is, seen as a hostile power by Pakistan. This is because Pakistani support of the Sunni Taleban, exacerbated by the murder of three Iranian diplomats in Pakistan, effectively ruined ties between these two 'muslim' nations.

The control of Afghanistan was also providing the infamous Pakistani intelligence agencey, the ISI, with cannon fodder to be used to bleed India in Kashmir.

Musharraf had to clean it up post 9/11 - he did so by famously putting the more Islamist officers into ceremonial positions. The elite, for its part, went quiet, refusing to alienate its Islamist cronies for the very obvious reason that you do not jump off a tiger once you have mounted it. They knew it was murder, so they began a, for lack of a better phrase, 'benign neglect' approach.

Things came to a head after the Indian embassy was bombed in Kabul earlier this year. The Indians and Americans soon had enough evidence to blame the ISI for the attack - apparently they were hell bent on killing the Indian military attache. And they succeeded. In response, the Pakistani elite, fearful of American reprisals, finally put its foot down and tried to tame the ISI by putting it under civilian control. That was the big card played by Pakistan's elites.

And it failed. The whole episode was farcical with the ISI soon reverting to military control. The elites who tried to pull it off were humiliated - the PM was in Washington at the time of the announcement and subsequent reversal. The elites responded by trying to cleanse the ISI of its Islamist leaning, albeit in a less public but still blatantly obvious manner.

This attack is probably their response to that. Its all become very personal. An attack on the Pakistani elite at a time when they would be breaking their fast at Ramadan sends a very clear message - everyone is a target. The goal here was to inflict maximum damage, not neccessarily on foreigners, but on the elite itself. I am most interested in seeing how the elite turn on their more islamist compatriots, who until now were tolerated as belligerent nuisances.

Are all Pakistanis religiously Muslim. I would suggest that you look at the words of the chief Minister of Pakistani Punjab, who made a rather bizzare call for beefing up relations with Indian (Sikh and Hindu) Punjab in 2004 (I think), coolly declaring that Pakistani Punjabis, despite being Muslim, had more in common with their Hindu and Muslim counterparts than they did with their Muslim co-nationalists. Southern Pakistan, for its part, is very Shiaa - the north is Sunni and Sufi. And how they hate each other. But I digress. To see Pakistan as a monolithic muslim entity is to err in judgment.

irwin,

You're on track, but a little outdated. The situation in Pakistan is too fluid to definitively lump Pakistani policy makers with the Taliban, particularly after Musharrafs attempt to change things. It isnt as clear cut as it was 10 years ago.

Once Muslims start nuking non-Muslims and others with zealous glee, then the world will understand what a toxic theological mess Islam is.

It's their theology stupid! Judge Islamic teachings yourself, don't trust what Muslims tell you about their religion. You'll be horrified at the level of bloodthirstiness in their religious writings. None of the other world religions comes close to this religion of continual war and perpetual offendedness.

mos in its various incarnations is extremely trying, having demonstrated thoroughly that it posts nothing of worth, merely trollish comments in bad grammar.

Irwin - I do believe you have been threatened, not merely insulted. It's time to do an "ezra" on this twit.

"And then you wonder" paints with a broad brush...

"The response here is so predictable, its almost laughable."

"You claim they want to see you annihilated, but I dont think it is a stretch of the imagination to suggest that you want the same."

"Only dogs bark at dogs."

"We have many scholars of Islam here, but few scholars of geopolitics apparently."

...makes some simple observations...

...and backpedals furiously.

Woof!

Mohammed raped underage children.

That's George Bush's fault.

Idiots put bombs in trucks and blow up fellow Muslims.

Also George Bush's fault.

Mohammed practised man-boy love Thursdays.

George again.

Muslims have lived in miserable poverty for 1400 years and have made all whole lives they touch more miserable.

You guessed it. George.

and then you wonder

I've read what you've written, not sure i understand it all, but it definatly made me think. Im curious to know what you'd do about the spread of islamic terror. When you have a rabid dog, you shoot it. When you have cancer, you cut it out. Your categorizing of this incident sounds like a self rightous, leftard excuse. Elegantly written though. Let me know if im wrong

Kate....are comments for above two articles snookered?

Yes ... satire it is ... and the crickets continue to chirp in Islam.

'And then you wonder'. You stated that many here would like to nuke them off the planet or something makes us just like them.No,it doesn't.As an example,if a thug rapes and kill your daughter,the fact that you may want to see him swing like Saddam,does not make you the same as the thug.Kapeesh,they are an agressive murderous people who bring death and destruction to wherever they go. I strongly suggest you watch a short video called 'This is not Islam' on youtube to add some perspective to your thoughts.

Since anger has fuelled Islam's hatred against humanity over the centuries, they continue to be angry and hateful.

Since their ignorant desire to destroy has gone unchallenged, they believe it is OK to be ignorant and violent.

They hide behind their own shortcomings, always blaming somebody else.

Their anger is sparked when these thin-skinned imbeciles are insulted. It is always they who define what insults them and what insults them most is their inability to control others.

See this middle finger? Control that, you jackass!

If you think we don't like you, you're right.

You are lower than a dog's dung.

Interesting feature on CNN right now: In the footsteps of Bin Laden.

He is quoted as saying: I am angry and I hate the president of the United States of America.

His inspiration, as he himself has said, is a man called Sayyid Qutb, who was executed in 1966 for allegedly plotting to overthrow the Egyptian government.

Apparently, he was also angry and hated the United States, saying that America was a primitive country because of jazz, which had been inspired by negroes (it's on Wikipedia, along with many other entries).

I believe our friend is also full of hatred and energized by anger, much like those mongoloid jackasses who are blowing up their fellow Muslims in Islamabad.

The anger and smug superiority clearly shows in his incomprehensible rants.

Cjunk - love the post. I'm used to checking my preconceptions when Kate posts. Good to see the tradition continues.

Hey, jackass, I'll talk Muslim topic whenever I damned well please. This is a country where free speech is not allowed and you will not tell me what I can or cannot talk about.

Here's a topic I'd like you to look at, if you dare:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Making the world a peaceful place ... one body at a time.

Killers! Dogs!

Have you not heard to the Jihad doctrine, where radical Muslims must kill innocents?

Read all about it, you lying son of a collie.

Sayyid Qutb is a racist dog and you are his follower.

We are on to you, you filthy flea-carrying shaggy dog.

You cannot hide your lies and your intention to dominate the world any more. Crawl under a rock where you belong, you son of an insect.

Even you Muslim brethren are turning against you and spit on your canine breath.

At least there is some hope for them, those who still have a semblance of morality.

The consequences of your hatred is your death.

The consequences of your anger is your death.

Nobody else is to blame.

When you die, a thousand dogs will urinate on you.

Angry mos:

There's a reason the Muslim world hates Danes.

It reminds them of their fathers, the Great Danes, who had consentual sex with their mothers.

If those islamic extremists want to see the great satan they had better look in the mirror and especialy at their own leaders BECUASE WHERE THEIR GOING THEY DARE NOT SAY ANYTHING BAD ABOUT THE GREAT SATAN BECUASE THEIR IN HIS REALM SMELL THE BRIMSTONE BUB

The US spends trillions on their war economy. With the current state of things overseas, there's something very comforting about that.

Set you free,

Where did you get that dialog? Marvel Comics? Sounds a lot like Dr Strange.

Very funny and tres insulting to the muzz.

The Pakistanis are already starting to blame the Americans as they had the nerve to stay at the Marriott and that is the reason , so they say, for the bomb.As long as the Taliban or Bin Laden can blame the West, and our media broadcast their propaganda, then they will continue slaughtering muslims and non-muslims.

Well I think we have established that Cjunk sees only what he wants to see. Can't do much about that.

No, wondering, theres nothing self-righteous or leftard. This bomb blast isn't just another play in the grand scheme of Islamists to take over the world. Yes, I am aware that there are millions of crazy pan-Islamists out there. Shocking, eh? But to write this off as just another bomb blast, and God knows there have been many in recent times, is to miss the point altogether.

This one is significant - very significant. This is the first real brazen attack on the establishment. And the targets are not just the establishment, but their families too. It is a raising of the stakes, in Pakistans context. The War on Terror may just have gotten very personal. The Pakistani power players waking up today will know that the war has come home.

How this is a leftard or self-righteous stance is beyond me. Do explain. This is, however, the reality. America's War on Terror may very well have become Pakistan's War on Terror, and while that is unlikely to distract some on this board, it is worth paying attention to.

I know, I know, Islam is to blame. Doubt anyone knows the difference between Sunni and Sufi - its all one big green blob. And you are entitled to enjoy it, but don't miss the nuances of this particular event - it is a huge deal, quite unlike anything Pakistan has faced before.

Stephen Reeves, the Pakistanis know who would have been at the hotel at the time of the blast - the big players of the capital of Pakistan and their families were eating Iftar there.

The significance is all in the details here. They hit a hotel, not an embassy or army outpost or government building. They are targetting the families, not just the government.

This may very well be one of the major turning points. For all those who remember the Sikh insurgency in India, which ultimately culminated in the Air India bombing, there is an interesting parallel here. When that 'independence' movement started, it had broad appeal amongst the youngsters. For young Sikhs, it was all about targetting the Indian government. Anything goes, and anything went.

And then the Police Officer in charge decided to change tack. Sikh officers in the police, killed by militants, were buried in their home villages with full honors. The emotions of their families were subtly broadcast. The war came home. It stopped being about killing 'Indian policemen', it started becoming about 'killing one of ours'. Support dwindled, and now the only support for an independent state comes from those sitting in Canada nad the UK.

I suspect this same mindset is going to take a hold over the Pakistani elite, who frankly have been untouched, so far, by the 'American' war on terror.

The war just came home.

And, on an entirely separate note, there is a huge difference between shooting (or indeed biting)a rabid dog, and barking at every dog that barks at you.

Who is 'set you free' talking to? He keeps referring to a jackass who isn't here.

Sounds slightly schizo.

Were mos' comments erased?

Tenebris,

You mentioned that he threatened me. I would like to know what he said, because I would attempt to place charges.

ATYW,

"Yes the Wahabi strand is quite retarded, and proliferating dangerously fast, but to try and treat Muslims like a bloc is to draw to make a serious error in judgment."

There are some 72 strands of Islam. Nonetheless, most Muslims are either Sunni or Shia. The most virulent strains of those being Diobandis and Wahhabis. Despite small differences, all these sects learn from the same trilogy and are commanded to emulate the same prophet. Smaller sects may have chosen to reject the Hadiths and/or reinvent what is actually said. Some may take a less literal view. But the facts remain the facts.

Occam's razor applies here.

The ideology of Islam, especially the actions and sayings of their prophet - who they are commanded to emulate - make Islam fundamentally violent. It incites Muslims to hatred and the most vile and horrible atrocities as a consequence.

We have 1400 years of absolute evidence.

ATYW,

I might also add that despite certain political leaders secular lifestyle, they all use the political tool of Islam to demand, take and control.

From the first Caliphs onwards, political Islam has and is still very much used to satisfy and maintain power. This top down approach was what made Mohammad so successful after the Mecca period. He simply promised converts what they wanted. Unlimited rape and wealth through conquest, here and as reward in the next life.

Islam is the root problem.

and then you wonder

thanks for the clarification, perhaps i was reading a tone into your writing that wasnt there. I would still love to hear your answer as to what we do with all these crazy bastards

John V:

Thanks for the complement.

Somebody had to take mos, or whatever name he's going by, on.

After scrolling by him for months, the opportunity was there to jump down his throat with both feet.

And, since his ilk have this irrational hatred of dogs, it seemed like I could hit our friend hard.

I see his posts have been removed.

The moderator can remove my responses if he wishes, since they now appear out of context, but I had more weapons in my arsenal.

I hope we've seen the last of him. He's taking up valuable space. I'll move on to the newer post on this topic.

irwin daisy,

Thats an interesting usage of Ockham's razor, though not neccessarily a correct one. Ockham would, in this case, point out that the root problem isn't necessarily just Islam, but any religion that claims exclusivity and divides the world into believers and non-believers.

This would, of course, be a bit ironic given Ockham's own religiosity - after all few did as much as him in undermining the corrupt Catholic Church of the middle ages. But I digress.

wondering,

There is never any solution to this dilemma. It is a moral dilemma - even annihilating those who want to annihilate you involves murdering innocents within their ranks (lest the innocent, galvanized by the purges, take the place of those removed). I know as well as anyone else here what is written in the Koran. But I also know that literal intepretations are rarer than some of the folk here would like you to believe. To put it mildly, I don't think we can simply wipe them out.

The Sikh example is the most significant example of religious terrorism in recent history, and it provides one important lesson - that local affiliation can override religious affiliation. When the cost of these wars goes from statistics to relatives, the game changes.

The only way to win this war is to make it personal and to make the human cost count. The terrorists are playing right into our hands now. It will take time. Maybe a decade, maybe more. But this bomb blast provides a window for that shift within the Pakistani power circles. In a sense, they have no choice. Terrorists don't just kill Americans. Now they kill Pakistanis too. The kind of Pakistanis who matter (forgive my crudeness). The Khalistani movement in Punjab took over a decade to die. And it was tiny compared to this one.

Winning this battle is all about focusing on opportunities to drive home the human cost. The terrorists are going to continue to kill. Pakistan's elites were initially unaffected by this. Now they are the targets. I expect they are going to start being just that little bit more proactive - and the terrorists, like all terrorists, will play into their hands, because terrorists often fail to realize when they ve crossed the line. Only this time, expect the elites to act more freely, since the terrorist sympathizers within their own ranks have likely been neutralized.

irwin daisy: Yes ... I erased Mos/note There is only so much space dedicated to guano that people should be forced to endure. It leaves a smell I don't like.

taqiyya

the koran is the guide book for all that islam does.

Cjunk,

Smell is right. However, he does give a fascinating look into what most would consider a 'moderate' Muslim mind.

ATYW,

"Ockham would, in this case, point out that the root problem isn't necessarily just Islam, but any religion that claims exclusivity and divides the world into believers and non-believers."

Funny, I thought we were talking about Islam, not all religions. If indeed Occam responded as you suggest, he would be going against his own rule. Regardless, the moral/cultural equivalence meme is feeble in any debate.

In this case, I've asserted that Islam is foundationally violent as proven in their texts and through their prophets sayings and examples (whom they are required to emulate). Regardless, of however many sects, there is only one Quran and one prophet, shared by all. This root cause is what incites them to hatred and the resulting consistent atrocities performed throughout history to the present day.

Geopolitics are quite secondary and typically used as a ruse, or deflection. The same as blaming the US, western imperialism, etc.

"Geopolitics are quite secondary and typically used as a ruse, or deflection. The same as blaming the US, western imperialism, etc."

The irony lies in the fact that Pakistan was created by a secularist and never tried to be a muslim nation till Zia's rule in the 1980s.

Thats geopolitics, not religion.

If it was all about religion. East Pakistan would never have become Bangladesh, and Pakistan would not have had to invade Afghanistan by proxy, or fear Indian collaboration with 'Islamic' Iran.

Geopolitics, again.

It's neither a ruse nor a deflection. The people who make decisions in countries such as Pakistan (which stopped being a democracy in 1948, one year after its inception), are western-educated, and, generally, secular. Few of them buy into the idea of an Islamic world - a pan-Islamic world would be detrimental to their personal interests. The men I am talking about are the Nawaz Sharifs and Zardaris and Musharrafs of Pakistan. They are not religious by any stretch of the imagination. They deal with politics, not religion. How else do you explain Sharif's willingness to turn over fellow Muslim Musharraf, India's bete noire following the Kargil crisis (May to July 1999), in October 1999. Musharraf painted that war as a religious war against Hindu oppression, and then his fellow Muslim deliberately tried to force his plane to land in India by banning it from Pakistan, knowing it was low in fuel.

Thats politics, not religion.

Benazir Bhutto, recently painted as the great secular hope, sanctioned the creation of the Taleban. Ironically enough, the Taleban hate Shiias, and Bhuttos mother was/is a Shiaa. She did not sanction their creation because she was religious, but because she bought into the idea of Pakistani 'strategic depth' in Afghanistan.

That, again, is geopolitics, not religion.

Either you are deliberately trying to paint it with a broad brush, or you are woefully mis/under-informed. If it is the latter, you are best advised to study the region.

Oh, and Ockham would identify Islam's exclusivity as the problem. No equivalence or anything intended - the problem would be identified as the division between believer and non-believer and not on how the believer is to treat the non-believer. I suspect you know that already.

Well, it seems you're not familiar with the West Pakistani Islamic pogroms against East Pak Hindu's in the early 70's, where upwards of 2.5 million were slaughtered.

Moorthy Muthuswamy, PHD nuclear physics, author of 'The Art of War on Terror: Triumphing over Political Islam and the Axis of Jihad' and an expert on terrorism in India, has this to say:

During the last sixty years, from every Muslim majority area of South Asia – without exception – be it Pakistan, Bangladesh or from India’s own Kashmir valley, non-Muslims have been massively driven out to India. This occurred when the Muslim population there achieved political power through majority status. Also, laws and conditions have been put in place to deliberately marginalize non-Muslims. In almost all of these cases, mosques and the clerics played a major role in facilitating this “conquest”.

In India the Muslim population percentage has increased from about 10 percent in 1951 to about 15 percent now. Even within 85 percent non-Muslim India, in some Muslim majority towns this phenomenon is getting repeated. These South Asian populations share language, food habits and culture but differ in religion. Clearly, these Muslim populations are influenced by political Islam.

Written orders were issued by Pakistan’s military high command to kill Hindus in the then East Pakistan in 1971. The largest religion-based genocide of the past fifty years was conducted as a result. Most of these expulsions and genocides occurred before 1972 – well before the large-scale infusion of petrodollars and Wahhabism.

Those who claim that oil money, Muslim “grievance” or “freedom fighting” are responsible for terror should think again. As noted earlier, political Islam’s fundamental emphasis on conquest is traced to the scripture level.

This data of non-Muslim expulsions from every Muslim majority area of South Asia implies that Muslims of this region do not believe in coexistence. This also points to intolerance among Indian Muslims (also substantiated in other ways). But due to their minority status they have not been able to completely impose their will on non-Muslim Indians. Still, Indian Muslim leaders have managed to lay siege to Indian democracy and have started to marginalize majority (to be discussed later) Hence, a fast-growing Muslim population within India can be seen as a looming genocidal threat to non-Muslim Indians.

----------

Of course, all of this was proceeded by hundreds of years of Muslim conquest, resulting in some 80 million non-Muslim Indians butchered.

Once again, Islam is the problem. The rest is a sideshow.

Irwin,

You obliquely refer to Operation Searchlight, but you are waaaaaaay off target, and I am afraid I am going to have to call you on it.

The West Pakistani Operations against East Pakistan were not religion based. Yes, atrocities were carried out against Hindus, but Muslims bore the brunt too. They were ethnically motivated. The West Pakistanis, especially the Punjabis, looked down on Bengalis. When Operation Searchlight went into effect, the first action taken by the Pakistani army was to disarm Bengali soldiers within their ranks. Please don't make unsubstantiated statements.

I have never heard of Murthy Muthuswamy PhD Nuclear Physics, but if we must engage in name-dropping, I can assure you, you don't stand a chance. I dont just read books - I actually know the people who conducted the war. Lets leave it at that. I haven't a clue who this Muthuswamy chap is. He sounds like he has been reading too much Bajrang Dal material.

All the stuff he says can be drawn off a VHP or RSS site- I wouldn't pay attention to them. They detest Muslims, and I can understand your affinity for them. They are interesting to listen to, but they also think all of mankind (and everything good about it) originated in India, and in recent times they have taken quite a liking to burning Churches and, well, Christians.

Muthuswamy is playing to an audience in the standard 'your enemies enemy is your friend' but I would be a tad bit weary of what he has to say. Particularly on the basis of what he has written - he sounds eerily similar to Praveen Togadia.

I would suggest reading a serious scholar of India, like Stephen Cohen, a Brookings Scholar, whom I admire. He wrote a book about India in 2001 : Emerging India, and he recently published a book on Pakistan. Oh, and unlike this PhD nuclear physics, Cohen also served as George W. Bush's special Envoy to India and Pakistan. He knows a few things and represents a good starting point for understanding the region. If you are interested, that is.

Irwin,

Apologies for not addressing this in my last post, but I just noticed it.

"Of course, all of this was proceeded by hundreds of years of Muslim conquest, resulting in some 80 million non-Muslim Indians butchered."

I doubt you knew that the death toll of British rule in India is remarkably similar (70 million according to one British author). They were killed in a number of setitngs - for instance the death toll of Indian soldiers and civilians in the Anglo-French wars in India is estimated to be between 5 million and 7 million. And then there were the forced sunjugations, such as that of Seringapatnam. And of course, the British revenge after the Great Mutiny of 1857, when Delhi and Lucknows populations were decimated. And it rises if you factor in the avoidable famines ( th ones that gave the world the term "Rice Christians") that wracked India under British rule. And then you can add on the many hundreds of thousands who died fighting Britains world wars. The British didn't kill all of them, but the cause of their death can be directly linked to British rule. I would be wrong to say that the British intended to kill 70 million. I think you are making that mistake.

When you put forth an estimate such as this, you have to be careful. Were these 80 million Hindus killed because they were Hindu, or killed because of circumstance. How many of them were Hindu soldiers who died while fighting in the ranks of Muslim armies? And so on. Don't forget the role played by Hindus during Muslim rules - many of the top generals were Hindu Rajputs and Muslims had many alliances with Hindu rulers. The greatest of the Muslim Rulers of India, Akbar the Great, was born in the house of the Hindu King of Mewar when his father temporarily lost control of Delhi to the brilliant Afghan Sher Shah Suri.

I didn't say just Hindu. Buddhists would be among the dead, as well as other non-Muslims. Dr. Andrew Bostom has written well researched articles about the Indian holocaust by the Muslims. You might begin there. Jamie Glazov is another.

There is no real or imagined comparison to the British. The Muslims were quite intentional in their butchery of pagans. As they are commanded in the Quran. Unlike their treatment of Christians and Jews who are offered dhimmi status and jizya, as an extra option to conversion or death.

Look no further than the Islamic trilogy, with special regard to the actions and sayings of their prophet. This is all verified in historical record up to the present.

It's what they are commanded to do as good Muslims. It is in their actions and what they still say to this day.

And then you wonder

do not answer Irwin Daisy and few more later i tell you espcially him, we know him from so manyother blogs did the same thing and write agaisnt Muslim intentionaly he has job which is not like Muslim come up and can be hurt his busienss he does say all wrong intentionaly . he is using wrong book and say all number intentionaly wrong and with hate Muslim and Islam
he thinks all Muslim seat and think to kill nonMuslim he is not normal of think this way and nobody can stop him someone brain wash him
some of non Muslim extrmies exatly act similar like Muslim extremist they have not logic and reason for what they say and action they do !
I am gussing he must be Solman Rushdi friend!!

I despise the Islamic ideology for what it does to humanity. Muslim and non-Muslim. I reference exactly what is in your texts. As well as accepted historical accounts.

Here's an idea. Prove what I say is wrong.

And, I might add, you had best stop with the personal threats.

We need more muslim immigration to Canada.... don't we.

My final and best recommandation to
west regard Middle east is that do not
force peopel to change of what you like as name of "freedom" esepcially west extremist

I recommanded Paksain look for step by step freedom not too much west freedom not to stay in Taliban and Wahabi freedom act more honest with regiona and tehir people especailly to governement of Pakstian to stay real Muslim and cut the all corrption nd think inside their country not the outside and leave Afganstan alone and take care of their border and do nto let USA fly free there and talk to Muslim countreis

I recommanded to extremist Muslim
just STOP that SHIT enough is enough you are embrasse us here Never prophet Mohamnd kill innocent people try to let Afanstan go to reform and election adn talk inside and ask help from one of Muslim neighbor nad do not let West and Canda and USA interfer to your country except build teh city and help you get independ fincialy and cut the drug and criminal out of your counry. YOu can not revenge bad by worst act
you destroy all security and this is more personla than religion and nothing come out of it
made your border and your profit and do not talk near nonmuslim so much about your belif you donot need to keep it in your home talk what is require to fix Afganstan and bring people back home Muslim should not kill other muslim taht is wrong and evil act then STOP IT .Thanks

How about rather than "Muslim should not kill other muslim taht is wrong and evil act" - Muslim should not kill anybody?

Oh, come on, guys. We've been waiting for YEARS for moderate Muslims to take to the streets to protest against Muslim extremists, and now they have. We should be cheering them and shouting, "Thank you! More of the same, please!"

The moderate Muslims are more in danger of intimidation by extremist Muslims than anyone else is, so let's back them up when they talk back.

Oh, come on, guys. We've been waiting for YEARS for moderate Muslims to take to the streets to protest against Muslim extremists, and now they have. We should be cheering them and shouting, "Thank you! More of the same, please!"

The moderate Muslims are more in danger of intimidation by extremist Muslims than anyone else is, so let's back them up when they talk back.