Because nobody lies like a Socialist.

Well, maybe a Liberal

Lies from Taliban Jack? So it isn't so! BTW.As most of us out West here know,Syncrude has recieved a Nobel Prize for their reclamation projects. Damn.Where's Al Gore when you need him.

If the money produced by Alberta's oilsands is dirty, then Layton and Dione should state they will not accept dirty money from Alberta in the equalization program.

All that has to be done is exempt the ‘dirty' money from the formula.

Up for it, Jack? Stephane?

last night it was claiming the mines were twice the size of new brunswick and having some goofy looking broad say "we cant drink oil" as if the Athabaska is flowing with spills. ps , goofy broad and CBCpravda , the oil outcrops along the river - thats how Peter Pond and the second nations folks knew about it.

Sounds to me like an open and shut case of slander. Why companies don't sue the hell out of lying politicians like Layton is beyond me.

Another putz

Give Jack credit for taking questions at all on the subject. The lie is impossible to defend so the strategy is to avoid the topic. Stockwell Day stumbled on the same type of question re:AGW on the Roy Green show. They are ALL lying to us.

There was a big article in the National Post about reclamation of Alberta Oil Sands (Sept. 5). Here is the article (without the pictures - which happen to say a lot):

http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=770547&p=2

Reclamation is a learn as you go thing but they are actively improving what they are doing. In fact, they are starting to see native plants and things come back to these areas (which were not planted by them).

Why should facts get in the way of a perfectly good smear campaign?

Always keep in mind that Jack and his crew spring from the loins of those that kill their own. All the worlds major genocides have been carried out by Socialists of one stripe or another.

Lie?? You bet they will.

Smilin' Jack Layton provides yet another example of why the NDP is irrelevant today. When you go beyond the one liners and chantable slogans, you find little of substance.

If the NDP aspires to be the conscience of the Canada, shouldn't they try to at least be conscious? Or at least wake up for the interviews with other than fawning CBC types?

I find it objectionable as a Canadian seeing smears in print accusing Layton of being a Taliban supporter or fellow-traveller. It's a bit of a dirty trick, but mostly it's an insult to people's intelligence. Fortunately and quite appropriately, most of the real damage done is to the credibility and reputation of the person using that kind of tactic.

I thought Layton and Linda Duncan did an admirable job of highlighting the huge environmental consequences of these massive projects. The people downstream who are worried about water quality have every right to assert their interests, just as NW Alberta farmers were right to query BC Hydro's impact on their water supplies when the Peace River was dammed forty years ago.

If one company, Syncrude, has undertaken reclamation work, fine. Jack and Linda should return later in the campaign and visit some of their reclaimed acreages along with company officials and some independent experts, perhaps from the UofA or maybe the Pembina Institute.

I believe the operating principle here is wilful ignorance.

More CBC bull!! Last night Layton had the pilot of his private twin engine jet drop down to 5000 feet so the CBC reporters on board could see the oil film on the lakes of the Athabaska Tar sands. Duuuh Hello Mr. Layton. The oil film was there when Alexander MacKenzie visited the region in 1the 1890`s.
What was Layton burning in his jet?? JP-4 is kerosene. That leaves a smokey film now doesn`t it?? They used to sell the smokey residue as "Carbon Black" to dye wet mortar and concrete.
How much JP-4 is wasted when you drop a commerical jet from 40,000 feet, down to 5000 ft., and go back up?? Come on Mr. Layton, tell us now?? I would guess at least 1000 gallon was wasted,. And why were the CBC reporters not telling us that?? Hypocrites!!

Apparently, there is an actual Libertarian candidate in Saskatoon Rosetown Biggar; Kevin Stricker. If he turns out to be an actual serious fellow, I think I may have to vote for him.

No profiles or any information at all on the Libertarian party website.

Hey Realistik, I was up north of the 'tar' sands about a month ago on a backcountry ATV trip. There are places in the bush (jackpine country) where the bitumin is right on the surface. (We brought some of this home as souviners) The bitumin ranges in texture from hard black rock to runny, sticky slime. On hot days on the trail it smells like someone is having thier roof tarred!

The Chipewyan and Woodland Cree Indians used to use the bitumen to patch tier canoes (or so the folklore goes) This stuff would literally ooze out of the Athabasca River banks. I've even heard stories of early settlers (1930's) using the bitumen as axle grease, but I don't think there were even trails up to McMurray until the 1940's, hard to say....

and over in Vancouver, in CKNW land, home of Bill Good the Warmonger who refuses to have anyone on hos show who questions AGW, who gives his microphone over to The Believers on a regular basis, who yesterday said on the air "Dr. Tim Patterson is not an expert on climate" and then allowed an Oceanographer leading member of the IPCC - one Andrew Weaver to get on and push his new book . . .

another pole gone horribly wrong

http://tinyurl.com/5qopju

too bad, so sad Bill. Time for you to grow up and learn.

Jack also lied about Dr. John O'Connor being an expert in "the field" (he is implying that O'Connor is some sort of epidemiologist -- he's not). O'Connor is a GP...no special expertise at all. He is qualified to say there are high rates of cancer, but he shouldn't speculate as to the cause.

Jack doesn't know facts.

More tripe from David: "If one company, Syncrude, has undertaken reclamation work, fine. Jack and Linda should return later in the campaign and visit some of their reclaimed acreages along with company officials and some independent experts, perhaps from the UofA or maybe the Pembina Institute."

As shown here:
http://www3.gov.ab.ca/env/soe/land_indicators/41_oilsands_reclamation.html

there's been lots of reclamation by more than just Syncrude. Jack's claim is a flat out lie. After a slander like that, you don't welcome the dirtbag through the front door; you drop a suit on him. The only meaningful question for Jack is, 'Did you lie through ignorance or malice?'

As for David's so-called independent experts, his recommendation of Pembina is ludicrous. Given its political agitation for various useless green causes, it is certainly not expert and cannot be described as independent.

Having a NDPer spout baloney, is the norm, not the exception.
Since it was said, it will be his comment that will be the story line in the media’s coverage.
They don't have to check the facts; it's good enough to simply say, "as claimed by Jack Layton".
The headline will definitely say something like: NO TAR SANDS EVER CLEANED UNDER HARPERS WATCH!
This fits into the main stream media’s template of; Big Oil bad, western provinces bad, Harper bad and scary.
The fact that they have indeed been cleaned up will remain the sole knowledge of those of us who actually care to check crazy statements, and the so-called "professional" journalists and their manipulative masters.
The media's left wing agenda is all that’s important in today’s reporting.

David: "I find it objectionable as a Canadian seeing smears in print accusing Layton of being a Taliban supporter or fellow-traveller. It's a bit of a dirty trick ...."

Posted on another thread by OttRob:

"KANDAHAR, Afghanistan -- A Taliban spokesman says he's well aware of Canada's looming election and he supports whichever party is more likely to pull Canadian troops out of Afghanistan.

"Qari Muhammad Yussef says the election is why insurgents have stepped up attacks on Canadians in Afghanistan."

----------

Taliban "supports whichever party is more likely to pull Canadian troops out".

Who would that be?

Oops, forgot URL:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080909/taliban_canadian_election_/20080909?hub=TopStories

"Layton of being a Taliban supporter "

That's why we call him Taliban Jack, cause he thinks the Taliban are good people who can be reasoned with and after a nice cup of tea, they'll let our comfy fur community organizers help the long suffering people of Afghanistan. Ya right Jack.

He's Taliban Jack because he doesn't support our military mission - done at the behest of the United Nations and he is willing to have hundreds of thousands of Afghanis suffer and die at the hands of the Taliban so he can ride his high moral "Peace at any Price" horse. Anti UN Jack - now that's some socialist eh?

The man is a moral disgrace.

Can someone verify the accuracy of something else Jack Laydown said about the Alberta Oil Sands on the news last night:

"We're looking at the largest source of greenhouse gas emissions in the world..."

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080907/election2008_layton_080908/20080908?s_name=election2008

It's a good sound bite but it sounded fishy to me and not being an expert on greenhouse gas emissions, I wouldn't know. Of course, he didn't give his source.

Taliban Jack bloviates about things he knows nothing of. This is a perfect example except Gormley called "schmatzy" on him. Caught him in a lie. Beautiful. Jack also was bloviating at a breakfast meeting this morning about being concerned that the booming Saskatchewan economy is not benefiting everyone and that "he wants to change that". I wonder if Jack even knows that we had a provincial election last year and the people of Saskatchewan served notice that they no longer want the NDP way of doing things around here?

Not going too well for the Northern Obama, is it?

I did some calculations.

Exactly Pat. Socialists are wolves in sheep's clothing, they fake compassion, empathy and good fellowship with people that they laugh at and joke about (not with) behind the scenes.

People like Taliban Jack disgust me.

David - are you playing the Devil's Advocate in your post above? Just curious.

"KANDAHAR, Afghanistan -- A Taliban spokesman says he's well aware of Canada's looming election and he supports whichever party is more likely to pull Canadian troops out of Afghanistan.

"Qari Muhammad Yussef says the election is why insurgents have stepped up attacks on Canadians in Afghanistan."

----------

Taliban "supports whichever party is more likely to pull Canadian troops out".

Who would that be?

Posted by: jwkozak91

So we should continue to place our troops at risk of loss of life and limb, even if this mission is not succeeding, and even if NATO air strikes are causing substantial civilian deaths, simply because some Taliban type said they want us to leave. Do I have that right?

I'm not quite sure what grounds Ottawa can have for dictating what new projects we can start in Western Canada. I guess there must be an environmental emergency out west and we need Ottawa to step in and save us from ourselves.

These aren't the only things Jack is lying about...

http://www.thesurlybeaver.ca/

He's making stuff up as he goes along.

People like Taliban Jack disgust me.

David - are you playing the Devil's Advocate in your post above? Just curious.

Posted by: Jema 54

Is there anything more sickening than the armchair soldier, the put-on patriot, the one who talks tough by voting to place the lives of others at risk? Now THAT is disgusting, and it's one of the oldest political tricks around. I forget who said it, but the old saying that 'patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel' was guilty of only one thing, undue understatement.

The slur "Taliban Jack" is the kind of thing that no actual Tory MP would ever dare to use in public. It's just a gutter smear to be used in the relative obscuracy of internet chatrooms by faceless personaes who have no real existence whatsoever.

David,

I have a cousin who was in Afghanistan, corporal Sinclair, he is mentioned in the book "fifteen Days", and what he tells me about Afghanistan is the polar opposite of what you and Taliban Jack are saying. Now who should I believe? A soldier who was there and going to return? Or members of a party that argued in parliament the Nazi's weren't a threat?

Barb asks "Can someone verify the accuracy of something else Jack Laydown said about the Alberta Oil Sands on the news last night:

"We're looking at the largest source of greenhouse gas emissions in the world..."

Sounds like nonsense to me. It's difficult to get the actual numbers, but I think the oilsands INDUSTRY (and it is an industry...not just one plant), puts out about 29 megatonnes of CO2 annually. By comparison, the Nanticoke Power Generation Facility in Ontario (which has been called Canada's biggest producer of greenhouse gases) puts out 17 megatonnes.

Oil sands make up about five per cent of Canada’s overall greenhouse gas emissions and Oil sands projects have reduced their carbon dioxide emissions intensity by up to 45 per cent since 1990 and are working towards further reductions.

To put things into perspective (something that clowns like Layton can't do), China loses between 100 and 200 million tons of coal a year — a significant fraction of its production of 2.26 billion tons — to mine fires, according to Holland's International Institute for Geo-Information Science and Earth Observation. This results in carbon dioxide emissions in a range of between 560 and 1,120 million metric tons, equaling 50% to 100% of all U.S. carbon dioxide emissions from gasoline.

Wow. I just got in from staking out an abandoned oil lease for reclamation. I'll be back at least twice, since the process has become so complicated the lease will require 2 environmental assessments. These are all AB Environment regulations, and they apply to the oilsands as well. There's no way around them.

An entire industry has sprung up to help meet the new requirements. Most of the people who are profiting from this are in the same association as the head of AB Environment. They have monthly meetings to discuss better strategies for improving standards, but the main aim is to find ways to increase their stranglehold on the entire industry.

Taliban Jack should not keep his mouth shut. He should keep talking for the next month, then the Conservatives will have a week to disprove every word he says.

The leftoid tree-huggers need some perspective.
Alberta's land mass is 255,285 sq. miles.
There has been 162 sq. miles of Alberta disturbed by oil sands activity.
25 sq. miles is currently undergoing reclamation.
That leaves 137 sq. miles of Alberta that is currently being used for oil sands.
If you had 20,000 nickels or $100.00 dollars in your pocket, 1 nickel would be the extent of the oil sands.

http://www.energy.gov.ab.ca/OilSands/pdfs/Oil_Sands_Opp_Balance.pdf

www.edu.pe.ca/athena/canada-geography/student_work.htm

"Or members of a party that argued in parliament the Nazi's weren't a threat?" - Trent at 4:52 PM.

True. The vote to join the Second World War Allies was almost unanimously approved by Parliament on September 7, 1939.

The only man to vote AGAINST standing with Britain against Hitler was Labour Party MP James S. Woodsworth. -> One of the fathers of the CCF.

P.S.: Thank you to Cpl. Sinclair for his service.

OOps bad math, Should read 2000 nickles.
Never mind, it's still a miniscule amount.

I've served so I will repeat it.

Taliban Jack . . the man is a disgrace, a moral coward of the same type as Trudeau who sat out the great moral crusade of his generation while others served. Jack complain from the sidelines Layton. Typical socialist, except he fancies himself as one of the "more equal than other" pigs.

Taliban Jack, Jack "Peace at any Price" (as long as someone else pays) Layton.

He's your boy.

Why ?

"That's why we call him Taliban Jack, 'cause he thinks the Taliban are good people who can be reasoned with... Ya right Jack."

" ...and he is willing to have hundreds of thousands of Afghanis [especially the Shi'ite Hazara people - ed.] suffer and die at the hands of the Taliban so he can ride his high moral 'Peace at any Price' horse."

- Fred at 3:18 PM.

The Afghan government or their tribal representatives can negotiate with the Taliban. Canada will not.

----------

Now, back on topic. The residents of Fort Chipewyan, Alberta - on the northern shore of Lake Athabasca - claim that they have seen two-headed fish in the lake; and that these are caused by oil-sands runoff from the Athabasca River. They have neglected to think about their eastern neighbour - Urainium City, Saskatchewan, also on the northern shore of Lake Athabasca - and any runoff/leak from uranium mining there.

The people of Fort Chip' aren't lying, they're just not thinking about all the possible sources of pollution.

Armchair soldier? The put-on patriot?

Well lad, I can talk the talk, because I have walked the walk for the last 17 years. 17 years spent proudly wearing Her Majesty's uniform.

You proclaim to be an expert. Show us how the mission in Afghanistan is a failure. And just because ol Jack says so is not a proof.

I await your drivel.

And sorry to our hostess. I know you asked us to ignore the trolls Kate, but I cannot in any way let that smug little SOB make these outlandish statesments without reply.

So we should continue to place our troops at risk of loss of life and limb, even if this mission is not succeeding, and even if NATO air strikes are causing substantial civilian deaths, simply because some Taliban type said they want us to leave. Do I have that right?


Three fallacies in the above statement: 1, you state that the mission is not succeeding. You are absolutely incorrect. The amount of reconstruction that has taken place in Afghanistan now that Nato forces have secured most of the region is astounding. Research it yourself, since the accomplishments that have taken place are far too long to list here. 2, you state that Nato airstrikes are causing substantial civilian deaths, which is also untrue. There is no carpet bombing occurring, the only airstrikes are precision strikes called in from troops on the ground. The fact that the Taliban use civilians as shields goes unmentioned when the mainstream media report news out of Af'stan. And civilian shields will get killed regardless of how the Nato forces respond to Taliban attacks. 3, we are not there because the Taliban don't want us there. We are there because Nato overthrew the Taliban, and gave control of Af'stan to the people, and now those people need their country rebuilt after 30+ years of constant strife. To abandon them now will plunge the entire country into war, instead of a small region bordering on Pakistan as it is now.

I think the key claim made by Jack is that there have in fact been no reclaimed lands that have been _certified_ by the Alberta government. They are all undergoing "reclamation". As to the status of that, I have no idea. Jack's statement is obviously very misleading, however, he is correct in saying that full reclamation of any land has not yet occurred yet.

Thanks, John Luft. I figured that China and the U.S. had to figure in the equation of "the largest source of greenhouse gas emissions in the world."

'Problem, of course, is that a lot of people watching Smilin' Jack on the CBC (fortunately, there aren't that many) won't question his stats and, of course, neither he nor the CBC will ever apologize for broadcasting erroneous figures.

Pure propaganda, as per usual.

Well-said, Pete. The success of the mission in Afghanistan is another issue the CBC propagandizes--for the benefit of lib-left side, of course.

I wonder what would happen in an election if we banned the media? No election coverage until AFTER the election? We used to elect governments withoug mass media--and I don't think we were worse off.

'Just wondering... ;-)

AtlanticJim, don't let Layton luving Dave ruin your day. He's just trolling or maybe even an honest to gosh lefoid. In either case, it ain't worth it.

btw, What gets me is that Taliban Jack and Dejon's sound bites get a heck of a lot of MSM airplay without any rebuttal.

p.s. Wore Her Majesty's greens then blues myself for over 22+.

A soldier who was there and going to return? Or members of a party that argued in parliament the Nazi's weren't a threat?

Posted by: Trent

The real question Trent is this. Who should anyone believe. Should they believe an anonymous poster who makes up phoney bits of history, such as your claim that the CCF said the Nazi's were not a threat.

Remember, in the wonderful world of internet chat there's no guarantee you're a real person, and your claims to being related to Corp Sinclair are completely unverifiable. But suppose you are related to a soldier who has served there. Is his view of the situation necessarily right? What about those soldiers who've been there and have come home shaking their heads, saying it's just a royal mess.

I think the key claim made by Jack is that there have in fact been no reclaimed lands that have been _certified_ by the Alberta government. They are all undergoing "reclamation". As to the status of that, I have no idea. Jack's statement is obviously very misleading, however, he is correct in saying that full reclamation of any land has not yet occurred yet.

Poor Taliban Jack -- he has a condition known as "little man syndrome". It manifests itself with lowering of the voice to sound important, and puffing out the chest to suggest well muscled manliness. Doesn't that describe Taliban Jack to a T?

"Or members of a party that argued in parliament the Nazi's weren't a threat?" - Trent at 4:52 PM.

TRUE. The vote to join the Second World War Allies was almost unanimously approved by Parliament on September 7, 1939.

The only man to vote AGAINST standing with Britain against Hitler was CCF leader and Wiinipeg North-Centre MP James S. Woodsworth.

David: "Should they believe an anonymous poster who makes up phoney bits of history, such as your claim that the CCF said the Nazi's were not a threat."

"In 1939, the majority of CCF members refused to support Woodsworth's opposition to Canada's entry into World War II."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._S._Woodsworth

Those who don't know history....

There have been no reclamation certificates issued yet, as this process can take up to 50 years.
Sounds like a bureaucratic process Jack would love.

http://www.energy.gov.ab.ca/OilSands/pdfs/Oil_Sands_Opp_Balance.pdf

Maybe Jack Layton didn't fly over some of the parts of the oilsands that have already been successfully returned to nature. Go to
http://www.syncrude.ca/users/folder.asp?FolderID=5703
and take a look at the photo library titled Environment, it sure looks more serene and welcoming than a Google image search on Toronto Danforth.

Regardless that Jack is a socialist huckster of the worst ilk, he's strategically helping the Conservatives by positioning himself as the next leader of the opposition versus Dion.

It will erode the Liberal's left flank.

Layton really believes he's a Canadian Obama, and Demo-hypo-crats believe Obama is the second coming.

Dear Mr. E. Jack Layton; please explain why the cattlemen in the area of the oilsands all want to rent, for grazing purposes, the reclaimed land you moron. The land is reclaimed to a far better state with better grasses for grazing. You stinking utterly stupid Toronto fools think that paving over and concreteing every square foot of land is preferable to the reclaimed grasses and trees that the oil companys take great effort to replace, once the oilsands are removed. If anything we are helping the environment you f,ing idiot because presently the oil is, like it has for millions of years leeching into the rivers NATURALLY asshole. Jackass Layton stay in Toronto where there is so few natural plants left you clowns have no oxygen and it shows, JERK.

Personally I would like the people doing the reclamation work at Syncrude to take a look at reclaiming Toronto. It's currently the biggest ecological disaster in Canada and I think it needs be be returned to its original pristine state before mankind disturbed the land and water. Maybe then Toronto would stop spawning disasters like Obama bin Layton.

""""" Personally I would like the people doing the reclamation work at Syncrude to take a look at reclaiming Toronto. It's currently the biggest ecological disaster in Canada and I think it needs be be returned to its original pristine state before mankind disturbed the land and water. Maybe then Toronto would stop spawning disasters like Obama bin Layton.""""""

and then on to otawa, and reclaim the parlament buildings, and the HRC offices:-)))

I sent that file of reclamation photos to Jack at the NDP website. Told him that I was sure he was just misinformed and now that he knows, he will be able to retract his statements and apologize to the companies that have worked hard to reclaim the land.

I expect to hear from him any moment now.......

Jack - you there Jack......yooo hooooo....

*cue crickets*

Like I said before, once Jack's pension is secure, he'll dissapear of the radar. And we won't have to endure his dapper "dandy" personna attempting to seduce the electorate.

Jack LAYdown, good name for a Taliban supporter.

This is what I posted at his site.

You caught him dead to rights. This is the opening shot in the disparagement of the West to Nationalize ( Read taker over.) our resource Monies for Ontario & Quebec's use during their economic troubles. Its Layton’s in to the lucre pie, using the Federal government to socialize all the oil Industry with its money for Eastern votes. Another NEP rape of Western Canada only it won't just be Alberta this time. Of course Quebec Hydro & Power corp. are sacrosanct from touch. Once a Dipper always a Dipper.
Nice catch Mr. Gormley.
I love it when the politicians get a bad case of biased turrets syndrome. Than comes the remorse of the mouth from the cerebral constipation. Not a lick of sense shown by Layton trying to sell this horse pucky to the “Hinter Landers“.

JMO

jwkozak91...the NORTH side of Lake Athabasca? Look leftoid twit.It (Fort Chipaywan) is on the SOUTH side of the lake.And for your info,rivers around that area run NORTH,into the Arctic Sea.Been there,seen it,done it,and got the t-shirt.
bar whatever
As to the status of that, I have no idea. Jack's statement is obviously very misleading, however, he is correct in saying that full reclamation of any land has not yet occurred yet.

Are you stupid? Try getting out of what little enclave you live in and go to Ft.Mac.They have the LARGEST herd of bison in North America on reclaimed land,less then 1/10 of a mile from the main Syncrude plant.Guess what?Tourists go there to see them.They provide bison to zoos and farmers around the world! If you want,you can feed them by hand(albight a little dangerous,keep your eyes open for Papa Bull)saying they have not reclaimed any land is like saying Taliban Jack likes living in TO because he and Chow-Chow can get subsidised housing on your buck.Oh wait.They did that all ready.

Re: bar_jebus at 9:49

"I think the key claim made by Jack is that there have in fact been no reclaimed lands that have been _certified_ by the Alberta government"

Even that is untrue. A reclamation certificate has been issued for a 104 hectare parcel at the Syncrude site.

However, there is often a long interval between doing the the actual reclamation work and submitting a request for a reclamation certificate. The actual reclamation rate for surface mined Oilsands leases is 13.6% based on Alberta environment numbers.

In a "study" done by the Pembina Institute (sincere apologies for having to quote anything from them), you find that the Oilsand's companies have in fact reclaimed 6,498 hectares out of a total of 47,832 hectares which have been surface mined in the Oilsands. That represents a reclamation rate of 13.6%. These are the numbers provided by Alberta Environment to the end of 2006. The 104 (0.2%) hectare figure mentioned above represents the land area that the Oilsand companies have requested a reclamation certificate for and been granted by Alberta Environment.

See page 7 of this document http://www.oilsandswatch.org/pub/1639.

47832 hectares, that make new brunswick plenty small. layton and CBCpravda should do some fact checking.

I hear this morning Mr Layton wants to create green jobs by - you guessed it - increasing corporate taxes to level before Conservatives decreased them.

Well, of course. If you tax companies, they will go right out and hire more people. Stephane Dion agrees with him.

I had fleeting thoughts of NDP supplanting Liberals on left as opposition - then Jack Layton walked in the room and killed that idea.