how do they get people to live in Toronto?

I saw an hour or so of coverage on this early this morning,then a while ago I saw another report.But I've yet to hear anyone even speculate as t the cause of the initial explosion. Has anyone heard about it?

Above-ground propane storage is not allowed in Europe, with good reason.

"How do they get people to live in Toronto?"

Well, our main selling point is that, unlike in the rest of Canada, you don't have to marry your cousin :)

For the last dozen years I have been professionally engaged in developing software that is used by engineers to help prevent these sorts of disasters. And it helps. Yet it remains the case that a disaster is always, as my favourite risks analysis professor says, "twelve small problems that happen in just the right order". In a year or so, there will be an engineering forensics report from the oversight folks we entrust this stuff to, and then we will probably have a good idea of what happened in this case. In the interim, speculation will run rampant ;-)

By the way, for those SDA readers who are both interested in good engineering and good risks management, you will probably find the U.S. Chemical Safety Board's videos interesting: www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=USCSB

What kind of city council allows this kind of facility in the middle of a heavily populated neighbourhood and on the edge of a military base?

Check this one out is the second blast, I think. These guy were close and you get a sense of the shock wave.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYijTFaxmow&feature=related

Huge evacuations...This is the third big explosion in the last month...The last one was smaller...just one gigantic high rise and all the people relocated for two to three months...The other one was the deisel in the basement of a downtown building...I was busy and didn't follow the latter...and very little news about it...the other one was on the news because of all the relocation of tenants..
I told my daughter after the first one there would likely be more...just intuition...these are all just coincidental...of course..
Who puts huge propane train carrying tanks in city areas...THE IMBICILES IN THE INSANE ASYLUM OF TORONTO.....the comic tragedy of mulitcultural failure filled with no go areas and ethnic ghettos...

OUr thoughts and prayers are with the fallen fireman and his family.

One should ask which came first: the propane facility or the suburban develoment?

Well, our main selling point is that, unlike in the rest of Canada, you don't have to marry your cousin :)

Yeah but only because you're already married to your sister! ;)

She blowed up good, real good!

She blowed up good, real good!

This is the closest video I came across:

(Terrible camerawork and language warning)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbw_K8pfNfo&NR=1

iceFree: good vid. they're about 2 kilometers away, and it's strong enough to set off the car alarms. crazy.

"One should ask which came first: the propane facility or the suburban develoment?"

From most reports the propane facility is under 5 years old and residents were concerned at its placement.

You guys do realize they drive this stuff around YOUR town/city/whatever in biiiig trucks, right? Every day, they're out there tooling around town with 5K gallons of bang bang on wheels. Funny how it never seems to blow up though, eh?

You also realize that your neighborhood gas station that fills your barbecue bottles has a big frackin' tank on site as well.

Propane is common. Its all over the place. As is welding gas, as is oxygen and etc. It is difficult to set the stuff on fire accidentally. It can be done, but it isn't done often.

Toronto does suck, and many morons who vote NDP do live there, but having the propane depot inside the city limits is not a sure sign of stupidity on someone's part.

Alex: Ya scary shit, I did not even hear about it until this afternoon. Some amazing pics,and story's coming out. glad the loss of life was so low.

Exactly, Phantom. People have no sense of proper risk analysis.

If the mayor is to be believed, often a dubious proposition, then the facility has been there for about 12 years.

The neighbourhood is relatively old. The facility sits beside a rail line with a graveyard on the other side of the rail line.

More interested in what happened. While I usually enjoy this board the Toronto Derangement Syndrome gets a little much sometimes. Lets wait and hear what the cause was.

It was a 15 minute drive from my house (non rush hour on regular streets ...rush hour would have been 40 minutes), but thats a fair distance, we slept through it.

Be iterested to find out what happened to the firefighter as well.

As for it being on the edge of a military base....Downsview hasnt been used for anything serious in a long time....and its quite large, whatever barracks that might still be in use are a long way away. It is essentially a big abandoned airport.

The most interesting thing to me is how many of the call ins and eyewitnesses say as their first comment, I thought we were under attack.....I saw the first fireballs go up from the Mississauga derailment in 78 or 79 (million people evacuated) and I had similar thoughts, cold war and all.

Anyway, lucky there wasnt more damage.

I wonder if those whack jobs from the Westboro Baptist Church will make a stop here on their cross-Canada tour.

Fortunately no 'statement' from His Blondness yet...
Lot's of relatives in T.O....thankfully none in that corner.

Robert Jago: The south end of Sarnia Ontario is entirely made up of refineries that make lots of stuff that goes boom, as a matter of fact those trucks Phantom talks about load there, all right next to a city. They have a warning system in place but if the wind is in the wrong direction I imagine it would be like God and a big can of raid.

Its amazing when you think of all the refineries and their storage tanks, the miles of underground pipelines and the enormous amounts of combustible, toxic material refined involving high heat and no major incidents.

I remember Malton burning, 1970 me thinks, some fool hit the gas main with a backhoe.

Toronto derangement syndrome indeed.

So far on this thread we have 19 posts, 15 people.

1 person remembers the dead firefighter. 1 remembers that human beings actually lived in the area. 4 get their quota of Toronto bashing done.

Lately it seems like SDA is more about Toronto hating than about principled conservatism.

I've been completely out of the loop today, so my apologies in getting to this one so belatedly.

huh? were your people in the field unable to cover the story for you?

afterall, with your immense traffic and piles of dough from advertising revenue, surely your toronto office could have covered this for you?

oh wait, you just pretend to matter.

Yeah, I slept right through it too. It didn't really affect me until noon today, when I tried to leave the city to go back to my base. I was stuck in traffic for an hour or so.

And yeah, Downsview these days is mostly used by civilians - there's a giant food redistribution facility, aircraft companies use it for testing, and the movie studios use it for storage and sets. The parts of the base that are still used by the military are mostly located on the opposite side of the base.

1) Downsview is a former base. There is a Bombarbier (formerly De Havilland) airplane factory there.

2) Air bases have all sorts of highly volatile stuff around. Jet fuel, armaments, etc. It is typically better stored, but seriously, thanks for the non sequitr.

3) Construction of the industrial parts vs the residential parts is at question. The area is a mix of industry and residential uses, but there are lots of similar facilities close to houses across the country.

Take a look here: http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=r8nvxn8c9gqf&style=b&lvl=2&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=28284743&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1

No huge tanks, nothing bigger than any neighbourhood gas station with propane tanks, or even tanks at someone's farm. This wasn't a huge tank farm or an oil refinery style installation.

Some people need to seriously tone down the Toronto bashing. Hit out at the idiotic pols and assinine voting habits (I do all the time at work and in conservative meetings here in Toronto) but don't denounce the whole place.

"seems like SDA is more about Toronto hating than about principled conservatism" Lori 10:05 PM

because Toronto represents everything that is wrong with liberalism and secular progressives

Toronto is an unmitigated disaster socially, economically, culturally, you name it - if it's in Toronto, then it doesn't function the way the rest of the universe does

you can be sure that the propane explosions could have been prevented - but Toronto's city hall is busy these days conducting shade audits and protecting its citizens from the sun

None of this would happen if everybody stopped driving and we got all of our power from windmills.

You don't have to be a fool to hit an underground utility.

Just Murphy's choice.

Recently we had the "Explosion" on Secord ave. that was reported by the MSM as a Hydro overload in the basement of an Apartment Building and yet the damage was equal to a car-bomb blast , plus it was in a Pro-Taliban area of Toronto .
Now we have a "mystery" propane depot attacked and go up like a roman candle and it is said to be a minor fire that set-off some Tanks .

Com'on folks , Al-Qaeda has terror-cells in Canada and we all know that the Liberals would never admit that they made a mistake by Invading Afghanistan and now Occupying their Muslim nation to impose Human Rights and stop the Pedophilia and execusions of Gays and Lesbians.

The WTC 9/11 attack saw the area being sealed-off and then the Evidence was rushed out to hide the proof of a Inside-job by Bush and the Massad , this is a false-flag propane attack to deflect the Media from the Omar Khadr terrorist Al-Qaeda family living in canada on Welfare.

Time for a www.propaneTruth.org to uncover the conspiracy or alleged Bush/Harper plan to delay the US Election under the guise of a National Emergency.

"because Toronto represents everything that is wrong with liberalism and secular progressives"

Heh. I see the Wetboro gang is still in Canada, AND posting on SDA ....

This would not have happened if we had implemented a comprehensive, multi-tiered propane registry, leading to a ban, said his blondness..[sarc]

My sympathies to the fireman's family..

Don't ya' just love it how humans rush to defend their pet theories even before there is sufficient data upon which to form specific theories in respect of any particular event? What a species we are!

they regularly drag a few hundred thousand gallons of propane thru downtown calgary. underneath buildings and everything. I believe its the only major city left in Canada that takes hazardous goods thru the downtown core.

I just want to find out what caused this, it amazes me the loss of life was so low.

As far as Toronto bashing goes, ya I would not want to live there. And I think Miller is a knob, but I do have friends in T.O. and did live there when I was younger.

I just hope this was an accident not some nut with an axe to grind.

Roger, do us all a favor: take up base jumping, or tax evasion, or going into Bloor Street bars and shouting "God hates fags!" Some other way of correcting the danger-deficiency that's mucking up your metabolism other than Troootherism, OK? That schtick is getting damned old.

Regards,
Ric

jamaican pride day....an unsecured propane depot...so many west indian converts to islam...do i have to spell it out ?

"jamaican pride day....an unsecured propane depot...so many west indian converts to islam...do i have to spell it out ?"

No, no need, you've made it quite clear that you're a bigoted moron, no need to come right out and say it.

Not necessarily, Alex. He could be bigoted and
not a moron. He could be not bigoted and a moron.
It is not required that he be both bigoted and a moron.

Well, well. Roger has shown himself at last. Getting tired of all the laborous misspelling, and trying to think up cute nics? I knew it was you all along. Can't get a rise on Yahoo any more? How's that girlfriend of yours? I don't think you'll last as long here as you did on some other sites.

Propane is not really more dangerous than any other hydrocarbon, if stored properly. It could be more prone to acts of sobotage. We forget how many hazardous locations there are in the average town. Every gas station is a potential bomb. My cousin has his own windmill, fairly close to his house, and his wife gets pretty worried during high winds.

If you assessed the combined risk of every house using candles and burning coal, and compared it with the single point risk of oil, gas, and electricity, the results would not favour the candles and coal.

[sigh]
Miller and his brain trust will be agitating for a ban on barbeques.
If not, a new police force to check each propane tank in Toronto yearly.
With the proper licenses and permits to be paid.
Come to think of it, I've never particularily liked people with gas.

I've heard there was no lose of life and hope that to be true.

I live 4 miles away. I heard a massive boom and then some smaller ones.

Since every one else is offering their theories, here's mine: someone is going to blame Mike Harris.

Overheard on Global news this evening that the site that went up in flames stored a number of explosive gases such as NITROGEN and OXYGEN. The bimbo that made this statement didn't hesitate at all when talking about the dangerous chemicals that were involved in the explosion. MSM at its finest.

gee kate, nothing new there.

you're out of 'the' loop more often than not.

""""You don't have to be a fool to hit an underground utility.""""

"""""Just Murphy's choice."""""

Posted by: Mugs

Muggsy, I'v worked construction in good ol TO, and it is damn difficult to find those whom are not fools working in that industry, most are mafia wanna bee's

I'v (contractor friend) also hit a gas line when replacing my sewer line(to the street) and no boom. I was 2 blocks from the malton fire shortly after it started, and witnesses said the fire could have been prevented if the hoe operator stopped rite after hitting the gas line.

I remember Malton burning, 1970 me thinks, some fool hit the gas main with a backhoe.

I was nowhere near the scene at the time...

Condolences to the fireman's family.

I'm surprised nobody has pegged the obvious culprit:

George W. Bush

Of course Begley could be just Lucy in Disguise.

For all you guys who think its crazy to have propane stored inside the city limits, better steer clear of Hamilton. The Air Liquide plant is right down there on Burlington St. next to a bunch of fuel and gas storage plants. That's where they MAKE liquid oxygen and stuff. BOOM! Except, its been there for like 50 years or more and never had an issue that I know of.

BTW, do y'all know what sits right outside every single hospital in North America? Have a guess, kids.

One of the explosion videos -- big flash followed by a mushroom cloud -- reminded me of this video from the last/current Iraq war (scroll to about 3:50 or so).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq082HmtPEM

Anti-war folks have used this video to "prove" that the US used tactical nukes in Iraq.

After watching the Toronto propane explosion, I have to wonder the same thing: are Albertans using tactical nukes in Toronto?

Lori: "Lately it seems like SDA is more about Toronto hating than about principled conservatism."

Toronto hating and principled conservatism actually go hand in hand. (I agree with everything Brad said.)

I LIVE in this city and have to negotiate its mean, ugly streets every day. It's falling apart. There's no rhyme or reason for anything and one gets the distinct impression that no one's in charge. It's random chaos everywhere, all of the time.

His Blondeness (h/t bluetech) is never around when you need him and, natch, he was out of town when this happened and said he'd have a teleconference about the BIG BOOM. 'Anyone know what he said?

Why the He** didn't he leave his dock in cottage country and get his butt down to the city of which he is the moro...er, I mean, the mayor?

I can only assume, Lori, that either you don't live in Toronto or, if you do, you live on a lovely, tree-lined street far away from the madding crowd. Or, that you have a high threshold for random civic chaos.

Toronto is a fine example of socialism in action.

No responsibility or accountibility just taking from those that work and giving to those that choose not to work.

50 years ago if there was going to be a Hydro plant built any mayor would be jumping at the chance for the jobs that came with it. Now neither Toronto nor Mississisauga want it. They'd rather have parks than jobs.

As much as I detest Toronto and It's Commie Pinko
PC Government, I can't believe that this accident, that has already taken the life on one and perhaps more persons, would be a catalyst to prompt smug and over-the-top comments from so many so-called decent people.
I've lost a lot of respect for some of you here today. Otherwise sane and thoughtful individuals that gloat over a tragedy. Disgusting.

Update on Mayor Miller:

From CTV: "Mayor David Miller, on vacation in Vancouver, was rushing back to Toronto to help co-ordinate the relief efforts. In a telephone news conference Sunday afternoon, he said his top priority is to ensure the area is made safe."

So, he wasn't in cottage country, at least Ontario Cottage Country. But don't you think his rushing back from Vancouver is going to make him a little late to "co-ordinate the relief efforts"? If the relief efforts have to wait for his return, TO's in big trouble.

His top priority is "to ensure the areas is made safe"? Wouldn't that have been a good idea BEFORE the explosion?

I wonder if we'll ever hear the real story here? Photoshopped photos and touched up commentary--or commentary that's just deep-sixed. Whatever. I have no confidence that the unwashed public will hear what actually caused this explosion...

"Photoshopped photos" above is a reference to the Reuters story on another thread...my main point being that with the MSM and our politicians, you've got to be on your toes, asking questions they're not necessarily asking--or answering--not taking their POV at face value, a job that Kate and a lot of other bloggers, thankfully, are doing.

Well, Malcolm, it's OK for you to stand in judgment of those who stand in judgment of Toronto? Hmmm...I detect a definite double standard here.

Do you live in Toronto? Do you have to live with the inanities and indignities of Toronto the Terrible's daily socialist, nanny-state awfulness?

What those of us who are critical of Toronto are pointing out, is that we may never know what caused this explosion, because if it was mismanagement--or no management--by the powers that be, it'll be deep-sixed. If there was any kind of political or other motive--in other words, if this wasn't just an accident--we'll probably never know.

Is it wrong to make these observations because a firefighter died? (May he rest in peace.)

'Seems to me that since there has been loss of life and huge disruption to thousands of Torontonians' lives, it is not only appropriate, it is incumbenet upon people to ask just these questions--and to expect answers.

Toronto's so-called "leadership" is so politically correct, so socked into the multi-culti "goodness" of Toronto that they just don't recognize how dysfunctional and inadequate their leadership is when it comes to a) dealing with daily problems, let alone b) dealing with disasters like this one.

Are you saying that it's not legitimate to ask some very pointed questions about just what happened? That it's not legitimate to be critical of a chronically inadequate municipal administration disabled by its PC credentials?

Mushroom clouds ?? Just wait till we have 'hydrogen highways' !!

"Toronto is a fine example of socialism in action."

This is actually right. You see, Torontonians generate about $8 billion more in taxes every year than they get back in services. So in a way, you're perfectly correct - Toronto is a city which creates wealth, only to have it sucked away by other cities and provinces. Socialism in action.

batb- Your critique is unwarranted. I believe that anyone has the right to speak their mind about Toronto or any other place for that matter.
What I find disgusting is the barely hidden joy that some find in this tragedy just because it happened in Toronto. No, I don't live there ( never would for obvious reasons) but It's influence extends to my city. I fully realize what Torontonians are dealing with and sympathize with them.
Having said that, I stand by my statement that using an event like this where loss of innocent life is involved to express some type of twisted schadenfreude is over the top.

I guess Toronto will have to wait until Mayor Miller comes back from vacation before he and McShifty call for a new BBQ registry.

"I LIVE in this city and have to negotiate its mean, ugly streets every day. It's falling apart."

Change its name to Gotham, don a bat suit, and you're all set. The City, after all, deserves a better class of criminal.

So, Malcolm, as I suspected. You don't live in Toronto.

My critiques are unwarranted? I DON'T THINK SO. What's next to go BOOM in Toronto? What's the next Tinder Box?

Because there's sure to be one. Or ANOTHER shooting in my neighbourhood, two blocks away from where I live, on a strp I frequent. 'Could have been me.

I can assure you, I feel no schadenfreude about what's happened.

But, I am pi**ed off, big time, about the mismanagement of this city and the lack of leadership. Is it a coincidence that this explosion happened in Toronto, a city that is imploding and now exploding. What's the story, BTW, on the explosion in the apartment building in the east end a few weeks ago? The trail's gone strangely cold and quiet. Where are our intrepid, investigative reporters? Not on this case, that's for sure. 'Wonder when the trail goes cold on
this latest explosion? I mean, we don't hear that Vancouver or Halifax or Winnipeg or Regina are blowing up, do we?

This is a giant wake up call to the mayor, to his council, and to the "whatever" citizenry of Hogtown, to begin to pay attention to the crumbling infrastructure in this two-bit town, which used to be quite a lovely--and definitely safe--place to live. It's a wake up call for us to start speaking out: You know the line? I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE.

It's time to hold Mayor Miller and his Council members to the fire and insist that things have to change around this town: more police presence--heck, ANY police presence, arresting and jailing criminals, not turning a blind eye to crime because it's been perpetrated by visible and protected minorities.

My family and I aren't a visible or protected minority--nor are the vast majority of Torontonians--but we're the ones working our butts off and paying all the bills.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

Sorry!!

It's time to hold Mayor Miller and his Councils' FEET to the fire... ;-)

...the other scenario's rather delicious, but not very nice... ;-) ;-) ;-)

Buddy, I don't think your problems can be blamed on Toronto. Judging by your rant, there's clearly something wrong up-stairs, if you catch my drift. The wheel's still spinning, but the hamster's long dead.

I also have to wander ... if you hate the city so much, what the hell are you still doing in it? There are dozens of small communities within an hours drive of where you live now. MOVE! It's obviously not like you have some amazing job in the city which is holding you there. Go to Lindsey, Alliston, Guelph, or Bellvile. There's certainly no shortage of alternatives!

Or do you just enjoy your megalomaniacal rants too much to ever give them up? I bet you'd be miserable living in a small town, with no Negros and Liberals to blame all your problems on. Aint that right?

batb- Again you missed my entire point.
I believe that relishing in the fact that because this happened in Toronto, that somehow the death of one or more persons is somehow mitigated by that fact.
Rant on all you want. You probably have good reason to but please understand the value of human life, even if they are Torontonians.
Please don't be so thick.

Yep Alex just like a good socialist it's always someone else's fault. Raise property taxes and watch business flee to the suburbs. Just all part of the $8 billion right?

Whizz away property taxes on things that aren't the city's responsibly like "Climate Change" thats just someone elses fault right?

I'm not sure why Malcolm cross and Alex are so cross about batb's comments. The municipal government in Toronto is virtually dysfunctional and will most probably use this disaster for political purposes. (Talk about disrespecting the dead.) Mayor Miller's return to the city, despite his grandiose pretensions to the contrary, added not an iota of real help to the situation. E.g., He's likely to say something really useful like, "I'll ban night in this city so no one will be forced to flee in the dark." What a useless jerk (and useful, socialist idiot).

It seems to me that this horrible catastrophe could well be seen as "an outward and visible sign" of what ails Toronto. However, acknowledging that Toronto's a disaster--or few--waiting to happen (or one that already has, a few times over), in no way belittles the unfortunate victims of this tragedy. And I see nothing in batb's comments to suggest any such thing.

Malcolm, from all I've read by batb over the years, she highly values human life: it seems to me that your comment here is gratuitously disrespectful.

Alex, your comments about Negros (sic: it’s Negroes) is over the top and offensive. (Though, if I were batb, I'd probably agree on the Liberal bit. BTW, as I and others will be WONDERing, could you please let us know which small towns are Liberal-free. Some of us might consider WANDERing over and relocating.)

DDT: what the hell are you smoking?

Seriously, your entire comment is one giant non-sequitur. I complain that Toronto is being taxed to death, and you think I want to raise taxes? Are you out of your mind?

I mean, it's quite clear that quite a few of your fellow commenters don't quite have all 4 wheels spinning in the same direction ... but you are a level of messed-up that I can't even BEGIN to understand ....

lookout:

"The municipal government in Toronto is virtually dysfunctional and will most probably use this disaster for political purposes."

Gee, imagine that. You mean the way you and "batb" are doing? No! That would be unimaginable!

"Talk about disrespecting the dead"

Yes. Maybe you should stop it.

Alex, settle down and good night.

Thanks, lookout, for your accurate discernment in this situation.

'Funny that Malcolm and Alex are fulminating about my anger at Toronto, given that residents of the area around the disaster who have been displaced by this explosion are also expressing frustration and anger at the mismanagement of the situation:

* mismanagement of the propane storage site itself and

* mismanagement of the aftermath of the explosion. Apparently, as of 4:00 or 5:00 tonight, residents had been told next to nothing about what has happened.

You know, if I was a loved one of the person who is missing, and I suspect dead, because of this explosion, I think I'd have a lot of questions about the way things have unfolded in this catastrophe.

I don't see how asking questions and expressing genuine frustration about the way things are handled in Toronto can be considered "over the top" or that my "critiques are unwarranted."

If ever a critique was warranted, it's at a time like this when a catastrophe of this magnitude has taken place.

I'm with alex and malcom, there are some over the top comments in here, and some that are not relevant to the topic

on other occasions we could be discussing a flat tire on a tractor trailer and some wingnut will denigrate gays, howl about abortions or start thumping the bible. When you do these things you make yourself look like the fools you so often denigrate at other times!!!!

and as far as people (those effected by explosion) commenting on the storage site, I read repeated references to one resident, and she is of the same demographic as those of my customers who always complained, so we should wait and "see" what is eventually reported and then judge if there is any merit to resident complaints. I remember a lot of bitching by malton residents about plane noise at Pearson intl. airport, did these A-holes not consider that when they bought, as most of these complainers new the airport was there when they bought.

I left Toronto when I realized it took half an hour to get from my crappy apartment at St. Clair and Dufferin to the Loblaws at St. Clair and Bathurst. Walk, bike or take the car, all the same. Maybe shave a couple minutes off if you cut traffic on your bike, at the risk of getting run over by a road raging Torontonian driver.

That was 1992. Things have not improved since then. I can drive from Caledonia to Ancaster quicker than I can go two miles to get to the freakin' grocery store in Toronto. You'd have to be retarded to put up with that. Looks like 4.5 million retards live in Toronto. No wonder they vote NDP.

BTW Alex, I think you'll find if you look it up that the GTA is a net consumer of tax funds, and has been since the 1980's. Meaning much tax is collected, but much more is consumed. You can't p1ss away money on "shade inventories" for 30 years and not have it show up on the bottom line.

Talk about all over the map--and with no supporting detail either. (To use penny's words, is GYM a young person, perchance?)

What over the top comments? Criticism of Toronto seems fair comment to me and in no way denigrates any of the victims of this disaster. However, this vague comment of GYM's seems to: "and as far as people (those effected by explosion) commenting on the storage site, I read repeated references to one resident, and she is of the same demographic [?] as those of my customers who always complained, so we should wait and 'see' what is eventually reported and then judge if there is any merit to resident complaints." That wouldn’t be very hard to do . . .

I did a little check this morning and found that the Malton situation GYM sites as possibly a propos, re the recent explosion and unwarranted complaints, has nothing to do with the present situation. If this person had wanted to know, (s)he could quite easily have found out that the propane company is a very recent addition to this well established residential neighbourhood. It seems that the right hand doesn’t know what the left hand’s doing in Toronto. (No surprise.)

From a Globe and Mail article, “Toronto mayor, regulator trade blame/Two sides point fingers over who authorized Sunrise Propane to operate so close to residential area" (August 12/08):

“The TSSA [Technical Standards and Safety Authority], which reviews the proposed design and then inspects new propane facilities, received an application from Sunrise to build the Downsview plant in late 2005, said John Marshall, director of field operations for the safety regulator.

“After determining in writing from the city that the company had planning authority to locate the plant on a site, the plans and construction were approved, Mr. Marshall said.”

GYM’s cavils seem like the proverbial pot calling the kettle black.

That's where they MAKE liquid oxygen and stuff.

Phantom, I remember that facility and did a fair amount of design work on it. Older parts of the plant have reversing exchangers, and those indeed do go 'boom' on a regular basis, but it's a planned boom and can scare the sh1t out of you if you're in the shelter at the time.

PS: I almost forgot about this

http://www.pipingdesign.com/chris/Energy.pdf
"Energy Contained in Pressurized Gas"

I don't pretend to understand it.

I see that Miller is now making it look like McGuinty is to blame for allowing the Storage depot to be set-up , this is no real shock since I already assume that not one Civil servant or Politician for Toronto will be called up on the carpet to face charges for the 2 deaths .

Just because Toronto dodged a bullit and didn't see hundreds of people killed by the explosion it does not absolve people of being accountible for their free-will choice to not oppose it , but , ever since the AdScam farce by Sgt.Schultz and Col.Klink who ran the Liberal Party at that time it appears as if Politicians want the Titles, Money,limo,Resposibility,fame and media coverage but don't want to be Accountible when the fit hits the shan .

It's so nice of Miller to focus on who to blame at the Provincial levels.