Unfortunately - whether we like it or not - Khadr was born in Toronto and, as a Canadian citizen by birth, he cannot be stripped of his citizenship any more than you or I can.

Had he been a naturalized Canadian, the government could have cheerfully revoked his citizenship.

The solution then, is execution. Problem solved.

I still he should tried by the Afghans and punished by them.

The issue, JJM, isn't Khadr's legal citizenship, which is merely a piece of paper, cynically obtained and used.

The issue is his, and his family's, ACTUAL citizenship, which is based on acts-of-citizenship. What are such acts? They are minimal. Obeying the constitutional and other laws. Paying taxes.

An act of going over to Pakistan/Afghanistan, and fighting with the militants against the freedom of the Afghan people, against the NATO force (of which Canada is a member) is an act against the legal international acts of Canada. Certainly, you could protest Canada's participation in the war. But, taking up arms to fight on behalf of the Taliban/Al Qaeda - that's quite another issue.

Since the Taliban/Al Qaeda are defined as terrorists by our govt, then, fighting on their behalf effectively declares, by your action, a rejection of your Canadian citizenship.

Now, in his case, fighting as a militant, with a terrorist group, against the US, means that he's defined as a member of that terrorist group. Not as a Canadian citizen because his acts show that he has rejected such citizenship.

I'm ok with the blindfold--cig and bang treatment also!

While I sympathize with the position the fact is he is a Canadian citizen and that means he deserves the protection of the Canadian government as any citizen would and should....the fact that the Liberals were in absentia with Mr Sampson in Saudi not withstanding.....

So what does that mean? It means the Canadian government should ensure he receives the due process that is required and given that he is held by a close ally that means we can trust the process that he is being put through.

But here is the kicker, that seems to be ignored...he isnt a child soldier, he is an adult.

The only statue that is in force and has actually been used to convict is one that references children UNDER THE AGE OF 15. Omar is NOT a CHILD SOLDIER.

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2008/04/08/usint18473.htm

relevant quote.

"In the last decade, progress has been made in establishing criminal responsibility for the recruitment and use of child soldiers. The recruitment and participation in hostilities of children under the age of 15 was first prohibited by the 1977 Additional Protocols to the Geneva Conventions. In 1998, governments negotiating the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court recognized that this prohibition had achieved the status of customary international law. They agreed that the conscription, enlistment, or use in hostilities of children under the age of 15 should be considered a war crime under the Court’s jurisdiction, whether carried out by members of national armed forces or non-state armed groups. Significantly, delegates drafting the treaty agreed that the Statute’s definition would apply not only to the use of children for direct participation in combat, but also their active participation in military activities linked to combat such as scouting, spying, sabotage, their use as decoys, couriers, or at military checkpoints, and direct support functions such as carrying supplies to the front line."

Notice the last line. To the extent that Mama Khadr knew about this and allowed it when Omar or any of the others was under 15, when they WERE child soldiers, she is a war criminal and should be prosecuted as such.

Do not fall for the line he is a child soldier, he is not till the appropriate laws, treaties and conventions are changed. He is being held legally and he is receiving due process. There is no debate here. Once his trial is complete he will either be released, and he can come home or he will be convicted at whioch time it would be appropriate for the Canadian government to ask the US government to transfer him to Canadian custody where he can serve his sentence out in a Canadian prison, if he wishes to do so.

This never should be how you feel, it should be about the law. The law in this case is clear.

I would still like to see "the law" applied to his mother, if thats what she can be called...War Criminal is more like it.

Canadians should keep another fact in mind when it comes to Khadr. When he threw that hand grenade at the American Medic he killed an American but that American was also a NATO soldier. That soldier might just as well have been a Canadian soldier because it is not America or Canada or the UK that is fighting the Taliban, it is NATO. Therefore Khadr was fighting against CANADA! For that, if he is ever brought back here, and I pray he never sets foot on Canadian soil again, he should be tried for treason.

ET: While I agree with your views on Khadr, you can't simply re-define citizenship on the fly to bolster your argument. Khadr is a citizen, even if he left Canada the day after he was born. Period. It's the law, and in this case the law's an ass.

We can, however, change the definition of citizenship. For example, why do we grant automatic citizenship to babies of convenience when very pregnant 3rd world mothers come here to give birth to obtain citizenship for the baby and thereby open the door for family re-unification and a cornucopia of social benefits like medicare.

Could we prohibit visibly pregnant women from visiting Canada unless they they sign a memorandum of understanding that a baby born here will not be granted citizenship and that medical costs most be borne by the mother. Couldn't we insist upon a bond along with the affidavit.

However, we DO still have treason on the books, don't we. I realize it's a quaint notion in this post-modern PC age, but couldn't it be dusted off and invoked. And coulnd't we re-instate capital punishment for the most heinous crimes (the Greyhound butcher, Olsen) and traitors like Khadr?

There's lots of stuff we can do if we're bold and assertive (LOL) but just playing with semantics won't cut it.

We also need to get rid of this arbitrary youth-adult divide. Don't children reach the age of reason at age 7 or so?

Couldn't agree more with Brian Lilley.

BTW, GR-8 site, Kate. One of the topics on the sidebar is another goodie, especially in relation to the 17th International AIDS Conference in Mexico:

Sex without consequences, a world without commitment found at this link...

http://www.mercatornet.com/articles/sex_without_consequences_a_world_without_commitment/

Citizens of convenience are indeed a real can of worms. Unfortunately there isn't a law that uses common sense in determining things like this. There is a big difference of a woman unexpectedly giving birth to a little Canuck due to circumstances beyond their control and someone coming into a country for the sole purpose of getting an immigration "Free Pass" card. Just ask ICE why there are so many pregnant women swimming the Rio Grande.

I really didn't see how wide spead it was until we all found out just how many Canadians were living in Lebanon last year.

At the risk of being called racist (there's that word of the day again) there should be a huge overhaul of the immigration system. Unfortunately this will never happen as that portion of the simple service is more deeply entrenched than a tick on a deer's hind end.

Immigration has been one big scam for a long time. An East Indian acquaintance of mine 30 years ago told me how they do it, simply bribe the Indian official at home stating you are a family member.

Our immigration laws are in sad need of change and I for one deeply resent having to pay for the bastards. Come here and live as we do or stay the hell away, you add nothing.

Stephen, better try to convince Liberal Senator Romeo Dallaire, of Rwandan fame of the fact he was not a "child soldier". He's been blabbing on incessantly about it. Somewhere between now and when the Liberals LOST power he's suddenly found motivation to go to bat for the Khadr spawn, calling him a child soldier and pushung get him home to Momma and Canadian justice.
We all know that Chretien went to bat for his dear Poppa to get him "home" to Canukistan from Pakistan.

"The issue, JJM, isn't Khadr's legal citizenship, which is merely a piece of paper, cynically obtained and used."

Assuming you were born in Canada, what then is the value of your citizenship?

Whatever you might think of Omar Khadr, his Canadian citizenship is not due to any cynical act on his own part.

"The issue is his, and his family's, ACTUAL citizenship, which is based on acts-of-citizenship. What are such acts? They are minimal. Obeying the constitutional and other laws. Paying taxes."

Nope.

There's no requirement to pay taxes or obey laws to be a citizen (our kindergartens are full of little citizens who don't pay taxes and our prisons are full of citizens who have broken the law).

My two cents: if Khadr were to be repatriated, he should be charged with everything a smart Crown prosecutor could possibly think of, from treason to terrorism. Anyone in his family not born in Canada - i.e., naturalized - should also be charged (his mother is wide open for child abuse in my books) and, upon conviction, have their citizenship revoked and be deported forthwith.

The truth is we don't want him back because we just know our legal system will fail us; the Khadrs would very likely walk away with a couple of million for their efforts.

There are plenty of Canadian citizens languishing in US prisons for one good reason or another. Let Khadr remain an American problem like them.

. . . and when the family needed medical treatment, Canada.

Or when the family needed to yet again replace a lost passport.

Liz,

All due respect to the Senator, he served and that deserves much respect. However he can still be incorrect.

There is a debate about what the definition of a child soldier is and should be. But at this moment in time the only statue that has been used to convict people states a child soldier is under 15. As I said, why the Khadr supporters get away with this line is beyond me. Charles Taylor and Lubango would have been convicted of many many more counts had the rules been been under 16.

The senator may wish it to be otherwise, and perhaps it should be otherwise. But at the time the grenade was thrown it was under 15 and at this moment it is under 15.

I would be happier if the Senator was consistent and said that Omar was a child soldier and that his parents, mother and (now deceased) father, apparently were derelict in their duties and responsibilities and should face the criminal consequences of either supporting/recruiting/training a child soldier, or being negligent in being a parent. Sadly the senator seems to want nobody to face the consequences of any type, except of course the US army medic.

As I said, the senator served so I am reluctant to be too harsh. But in this matter his feelings, wishes and emotions arent relevant to the discussion.

Omar threw a grenade in a combat zone, killed one person and severely injured another. Omar is of age, according to International Law. He has been captured by an ally of Canada's and he is receiving due process (albeit one that was a major cluster f***, but still due process)

The responsibilties of the government to its citizen should be to ensure no torture, due process and offer him the right to serve his sentence in Canadian custody once he is convicted. After that the Canadian government has fulfilled its obligations, more than the Canadian government, under noted Liberal "human rights" luminaries like Bill Graham, ever did for Bill Samson or Ms Kazemei.

The fact that international law and my desires to see Omar face the music coincide is a happy conicidence but the right answer. No other citizen should feel abandoned or alternatively that somehow their citizenship means a free pass. It really is time for a Canadian passport to mean something other than a not getting searched or spit on at a foreign airport.

sorry, I have little sympathy for the Khadr family
they have made public statements which make it quite clear they are the enemy
as for Omar, he should have been dealt with on the battlefield - problem solved

Bin Laden's Driver

That is a great name for a band!

Or a golf club for someone taller than 6'6".

Joan,

Yes! ( LOL )

Get the new Bin Laden Driver. Explosive power, able to evade traps, lets you get Eagles on a regular basis. You are warned against using it near tall buidlings as the ball tends to fly into it.

Canada

Section 46 of the Criminal Code of Canada has two degrees of treason, called "high treason" and "treason." However both of these belong to the historical category of high treason, as opposed to petty treason which does not exist in Canadian law. Section 46 reads as follows:

"High treason
(1) Every one commits high treason who, in Canada,

(a) kills or attempts to kill Her Majesty, or does her any bodily harm tending to death or destruction, maims or wounds her, or imprisons or restrains her;

(b) levies war against Canada or does any act preparatory thereto; or

(c) assists an enemy at war with Canada, or any armed forces against whom Canadian Forces are engaged in hostilities, whether or not a state of war exists between Canada and the country whose forces they are.

Treason

(2) Every one commits treason who, in Canada,

(a) uses force or violence for the purpose of overthrowing the government of Canada or a province;

(b) without lawful authority, communicates or makes available to an agent of a state other than Canada, military or scientific information or any sketch, plan, model, article, note or document of a military or scientific character that he knows or ought to know may be used by that state for a purpose prejudicial to the safety or defence of Canada;

(c) conspires with any person to commit high treason or to do anything mentioned in paragraph (a);

(d) forms an intention to do anything that is high treason or that is mentioned in paragraph (a) and manifests that intention by an overt act; or

(e) conspires with any person to do anything mentioned in paragraph (b) or forms an intention to do anything mentioned in paragraph (b) and manifests that intention by an overt act."

It is also illegal for a Canadian citizen to do any of the above outside Canada.

The penalty for high treason is life imprisonment. The penalty for treason is imprisonment up to a maximum of life, or up to 14 years for conduct under subsection (2)(b) or (e) in peacetime.

Canadian Citizen?

Try him for Treason. And his family.

the new Bin Laden Driver:

The only golf club to eliminate all your competitors, the greens, the greenskeepers and the fairway with one stroke.

Not sold at airport ticket desks.

a bin laden driver-- certainly must be a sand wedge.

Im waiting for Taliban Jack Layton or Borat Dion to seriously misstep and come out publicly and loudly for Khadr.

CBCpravda has 2200 stories on the Khadr family. the taxpayer provides welfare, lawyers and coverage for the first family of terrorism in Canada. the sooner we are rid of the Khadr disease the better.

CBCpravda " All Khadr , All the Time."

Watch for the motion picture version of his life: "Driving, Missed Daisy Cutter".

Due respect for the soldier Dallaire has nothing to do with his actions as a Senator for the Liberals, a job he accepted. Serving garners the highest respect but does not mean he's above criticism in a privileged position.

He seems to be all worried Canada isn't doing right by him when Canada has nothing to do with the fact his family chose that mission in life for him. He is a detainee of the US, our greatest Ally. He will be dealt with in due course and all will be happy to have him return to Canada's Justice system to serve his time.

He and his family do not represent true Canadians, it's nothing more than what the country can and has done for them. They've contributed nothing but shame.
I suspect this is all about politics, the timing is right, the Liberals are desperate.

http://www.achart.ca/publications/cdn_boy_soldiers.htm

At one time Canada had Boy Soldiers.

Does this still exist on the books?

In 1985, I enlisted in the Militia/PRes at 16. I was in my 17th year and had my parents consent.

If it's still on the books in Canada; Would Omar then not be recognizable as a boy soldier and NOT a child soldier?

I intentionally did not capitalize my reference to him as a boy soldier. That would be disrespectful to those who served as real Boy Soldiers on our behalf.

ooops

I meant "....recognizable as a boy soldier..."

ooops

I meant "....be recognizable as a boy soldier..."

In 1952 you could join the permanent force, Canadian Army legally at 16. You would begin training but would not be sent out of the country until you were 18. I was prepared to sign up but my father who had served in both World Wars suggested I wait a couple of years.

me no dhimmi and others - I'm not talking about Khadr's 'legal' citizenship, which is Canadian and superficial. His legal citizenship functions only to manipulate the taxpayer into paying him and his family welfare and medical care (the entire family is kept by us in that way). And to protect him from his actions. I'm talking about something different - his 'actual' citizenship. The term 'actual' is misunderstood.

By this term I mean where do his loyalties rest? With Canada or against Canada as a nation. As Hannibal Lectern reminded us, section 46 of our criminal code outlines actions that are 'against Canada, ie, that are treasonable.

You can certainly criticize Canada, its govt, its laws, its..everything..and remain an ACTUAL citizen. [Again, I'm ignoring the legal definition]. But, can you participate in military actions against Canada and its allies, in this case, against the NATO/UN military action in Afghanistan - and still be considered an 'actual' Canadian citizen?

You've committed an act against Canada; an act of treason.

That's what I meant by 'obeying the laws'. As for 'taxes ' - don't be reductionist; children are supported by their parents, who do pay taxes. If you live in Canada, and work in Canada, your taxes go to Canada. Not to some other country.

Off topic, but what the hell: Dallaire! Served, smerved!
By the first 10 pages of his Shake Hands with the Devil I got an unshakeable impression that he was a beneficiary of Affirmatiave Action -- that he was way way out of this depth. And he knew it too!

He was a incompetent bloody bureaucrat who was too afraid for his career to do the obvious, demurring instead to the criminals at the UN. To wit, he knew about the weapons cache, knew where it was, and asked permission of the UN to take it out. He didn't get the permission. Oh well.

He should have acted and answered for it later.

Sorry, I had zero respect for Dallaire and he confirmed this judgment with his acceptance of his sinecure in the senate. He served alright -- HIMSELF. Oh, and re-confirmed with his baloney about Khadr being a "child soldier". Shame on the fool.

This is pretty clearly a case of Treason. Why are only bloggers and their readers able to figure this out?

MND,

You have said it better than I could have, which is why I wanted to defer. But you hit it, the essence of morality is doing the right thing when it most matters and facing consequences later.

It is a little rich to hear a lecture from the Seantor who follows couldnt find a way to break the rules. Mind you he probably knew he wouldnt have been backed up by his "soft power" Liberal benefactors. So perhaps his choice was rational from a self interested point of view.

Nonetheless, you put it better than I could have.

"Can you participate in military actions against Canada and its allies, in this case, against the NATO/UN military action in Afghanistan - and still be considered an 'actual' Canadian citizen?

You've committed an act against Canada; an act of treason."

Of course you can still be considered a citizen - otherwise how could you be considered treasonous?

Romeo Dallaire is a product of the system that promoted the best - as long as they spoke french. And having a Quebecois name didn't hurt either. This is not news to anyone who has ever worked for the feds in any department. There is also the issue of the difference in bilingualism standards for anglos and francos.

Send the Khadrs to Waziristan; they will then be open to attack by our troops :-)

This family has committed treason, and should result in being stripped of citizenship. I am sure Omar Khadr is a dual citizen and could be returned to Afghanistan. He would not be a man without a country. I know we haven't prosecuted anyone lately for treason, but if the law still exists then it's time to enact such.

The general feeling in the officer ranks was that Dallaire was a product of the French Canadian DND 'mafia'..a political soldier of the worst sort who owed every morsel of career advancement to those who valued speaking French over whether one was competent in commands they were chosen for.

That Dallaire was given the golden Liberal handshake of a plum senators position, should come as no surprise.All his views are coloured by virtue of the fact that he is beholden to the (L)liberal bureaucrats , and will never say a bad word against any of them.

Wee Omar could be doing a jig down Jarvis street a year from today, and Dallaire would be forced to put a positive spin on it..

He's been bought and sold..

From now on, I suggest everyone at SDA refer to any member of the Khadr family as:

"Section 46ers"

I also suggest that Bill Sampson be nominated as the head of any Federal Inquiry into the case and that Romeo Dallaire be renamed the "Canadian Harry Reid."

More commentary on our Section 46 comrade in arms:

"I would like to see Omar Khadr get his day in court, and justice be finally served, for the widow and children of the man he's accused of murdering as well as for Khadr himself. It bears noting that had it not been for legal wrangling initiated by Mr. Khadr's counsel, he would likely have been tried and the matter dispensed with before now."

http://timestranscript.canadaeast.com/opinion/article/367261

hmmm, me no d. i felt that way about the general from the get go. the french fact is still with the military and the government. try and advance beyond the rank of warrant without french and a stint at rmc.

He was a incompetent bloody bureaucrat who was too afraid for his career to do the obvious

The further that I got into Dallaire's book, the more I wondered when he was going to do the right thing. He had certainly mastered the art of following orders to the letter, even when those orders came from corrupt, incompetent fools thousands of miles from the action. However, how could anyone, in good conscience, refrain from intervening and stand by while unspeakable atrocities were being committed? Me No Dhimmi got it right ... "He should have acted and answered for it later." History would have vindicated him for disobeying orders and preventing thousands of gruesome deaths.

Dallaire's inane comments on the Khadr situation are, to be quite charitable, somewhat less than helpful.

biff jr." "However, how could anyone, in good conscience, refrain from intervening and stand by while unspeakable atrocities were being committed?"

No wonder Dallaire ended up sitting, disconsolate and zombie-like, on a park bench, after which he needed psychiatric care.

It wasn't Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome because of the horrors he'd seen in Rwanda.

It was PTSS because of the horrors he could have prevented.

When I went to an after-dinner speech he made a few years ago (tickets given to me), I was astonished to discover that he was an apologist for the Librano$ and the Useless Nations. I couldn't politely walk out, but I sure wanted to.

His talk was pure sycophantic schlock and I could only wonder what big bucks were being channelled into his bank account to make him defend what is/was indefensible. Now, he's doing it again: defending Khadr.

I hope Dallaire is Catholic and that he goes to confession before arriving at St. Peter's Gates.

Me No Dhimmi: Your impression on SHWD is right on the money! I had the same feeling. Too much caramel in that ice cream to be genuine.

I hope you can back up that statement, Batb.
(You can't, but give it a try.)

*
i was under the impression we were
fighting a war against these guys.

what's the penalty for treason again?

*

gellen: What statement would you be talking about?

What I wrote is my opinion...things I wonder about...

babt

"""""What I wrote is my opinion...things I wonder about..."""""

remember now, lefties don't understand what opinions are, tha's why the lefty MSM always print "opinions" rather than news!!!!!