The CF is having a rough week.
One of their biggest successes, the Strategic Advisory Team - Afghanistan, which mentors the Afghan civil service, is being wound down due to bureaucratic infighting in Ottawa. The news on much-needed rotary wing support in Kandahar remains confused at best. The brass is catching flak for promoting an officer whose career, it increasingly seems, was buried by a politically-correct witch hunt more than a decade ago.
And certain segments of the population, as well as large portions of the mob we call our national media, have decided to pile on a thankfully-unnamed Canadian soldier who had the great misfortune to make a life-or-death decision that resulted in the tragic death of two Afghan children.
It's worth reading what another LAV gunner had to say about that:
LAV Gunners take these kinds of situations very seriously and they put alot of thought into their convoy SOPs. No one wants to kill kids and innocents - every one of us knows that we will live with the choices that we make on the roads in Kandahar. But the point at which warning shots turn into lethal force is a grey area, with each situation dependant on the circumstances. It's impossible to armchair this one.In fall 06 I was a LAV gunner involved in a convoy op in southern Afghanistan. At one point a vehicle pulled out and began speeding towards us, and I fired my COAX in accordance with ROEs. When the dust cleared the battle aiming mark on my daysight was sitting right in the middle of some kid's head as I looked through the windshield at him sitting on the driver's lap. The driver decided to stop just in time, and I checked fire just in time. No one was hurt, but I was seriously pissed off. How the frig could the driver have been so stupid? Risking his life and his family's life like that? Doesn't he know that this game is for keeps? If the timing had been a half second off I would have wasted every single ******* person in that car. And I would have had to live with that.
In the early spring 07 another car was speeding towards us. He got the drop on us, and the ****** exploded himself on the side of my LAV. No one was hurt thankfully, aside from the suicide bomber. But what if someone was hurt? Maybe I should have been just a split second quicker on the trigger. frig, I don't know.
These are the decisions made every day by our guys in Afghanistan and it pisses me off to see this crap armchaired. Guys do enough second guessing of their own actions. They don't need john smith on army.ca or on the CBC adding to it.
Which goes to show you can do everything right, and still have the situation start circumnavigating the toilet bowl. There are no guarantees. I doubt that will be of any consolation to the bereaved Afghan family, or to the soldier who made the decision to shoot. For his or her sake, I hope the ROE were followed to the letter. And even if they were, that's something the soldier will have to try to come to terms with for the rest of his or her life.
Some days you're the statue, other days you're the pigeon. The CF seems to be getting the crappy end of that relationship this week.
Posted by Damian at July 29, 2008 5:10 PMAs per the norm the only time the media is interested in reporting on our Military is when they have something negative to report, and the left only care about Afghanies when we accidently kill one or two.
The left and the media are never outraged when a terrorist straps a bomb on a baby and then uses a remote controled device to blow up said child. If a female gets raped and is given two options either be stoned to death for immoral conduct or be a suicide bomber does this bother the MSM or the left. Nope, the feelings controled leftarded masses only howl in outrage if a soldier accidently kills someone.
Posted by: Rose at July 29, 2008 5:45 PM"Some days you're the statue, other days you're the pigeon."
And sometimes you're the bed..
"A French couple given a four-month suspended prison sentence for making a pornographic video at the Vimy Ridge memorial near Arras.
After being found guilty of exhibitionism, they were fined £400 each and ordered to pay a symbolic one euro (80 pence) in damages to Canada, which lost 60,000 men in the Great War.
Many Canadians perished in the Battle of Vimy Ridge, in April 1917, when four members of the Canadian Corps received Victoria Crosses.
Despite the courageous deeds and sacrifice honoured by the Vimy Memorial, the couple are believed to have stripped naked and performed sex acts beside the soaring stone structure.
They then posted the video on a website, invited people to pay to watch it.
Their punishment came just six months after another couple were fined for taking nude photographs of themselves in the same place."---Peter Allen, Telegraph UK (July 28,2008)
Posted by: RFC at July 29, 2008 6:10 PMEgad. I think I'd mentally blocked that one out, RFC.
Posted by: Damian at July 29, 2008 6:12 PMThe LAV incident:
(Posted to an earlier SDA item)
If "progressives" are so concerned for the welfare of children, what is their stand on abortion?
Just asking.
Anyone sitting at a PC in a comfortable apartment in a Canadian city ought to be made to take some sort of "Sophie's Choice" test to see which of the lesser of two evils they would opt for if forced to make an immediate life-or-death decision with a split second of notice.
----------------------
Colonel Labbé's promotion:
I very, very seriously doubt any CDS - or DND as a whole - would even think of risking the poor public perception this promotion was bound to create.
Unless they had no choice in the matter.
I suggest that this "retroactive" promotion might mean Col Labbé has been successful in pursuing a grievance or similar legal action against the Crown.
This would therefore imply that the DND-CF case against Colonel Labbé was "less than watertight."
Do I now detect furious activity from Mr Pugliese of the Ottawa Citizen as he prepares a veritable tidal wave of Access-to-Information requests in order to get to the bottom of it all?
It could get embarrassing for a number of (as yet) relatively anonymous senior officers and officials in the department...
Posted by: JJM at July 29, 2008 6:18 PMNo No Kate. The people at the Toronto Star know better, don't try to evade this fact.
A very interesting pice of writing.
Posted by: RW at July 29, 2008 6:51 PMHere is the Enemy. Muslims killing Muslims; drones killing Muslim Taliban.
Taliban Jack Layton-NDP's & El-Misery's buddies are having a rough week.
Stand back.
...-
"Pakistan: Taliban split into two factions in Bajaur Agency
KHAR: Taliban in the Bajaur tribal district split into two factions after infighting between two militant organisations in Mohmand Agency led to the killing of eight members of one group on July 18.
Pro-Baitullah Mehsud Taliban leader Umer Khalid killed eight members from the Shah Sahib militant group, including its chief and deputy chief, on July 18."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2053146/posts
...-
"Officials: Al Qaeda's Mad Scientist Killed
One of al Qaeda's top chemical and biological weapons experts was killed in an air strike by a CIA pilotless drone in a remote Pakistani border region, senior Pakistani intelligence officials told CBS News Tuesday morning.
Intelligence officials investigating the Sunday night missile attack confirmed that Midhat Mursi al-Sayid Umar, also known as Abu Khabab al-Masri was one of six men killed and his remains had been positively identified.
"We now have a positive ID on the body. I can confirm to you that Al-Masri has been killed,""
(cbs)
If you want to get the Leftoid's attention off our soldiers killing imbeciles and their innocent families by accident (because said imbeciles refuse to follow simple instructions in a live-ammo war zone, thereby qualifying themselves for the Darwin Award, stupidity is a capital offense) all you need to do is run the video of the Al Qaeda poison gas tests.
That'd be the one where they test out the gas on a dog.
That dog killing video did more to damage AQ's brand with metrosexual Liberal voters and soccer moms than any five videos of them hiding behind women and children.
This tells me more than I want to know about the Left.
Posted by: The Phantom at July 29, 2008 7:44 PMFOX news just made a statement that 1.5 million Afghani women and girls are in school that wouldn't have been under the Taliban now.
No sane person wants children killed, and, of course, the real perpetrators of dead children be it in Afghanistan, at the hands of suicidal gutblowers in Israel, the girls that perished in a fire for lack of a head scarf, the dead Christian kids in Darfur, the Beslan school kids, the MSM would never retrieve as who is the enemy of children and how really assigning guilt to good people in war circumstances is ridiculous.
Posted by: penny at July 29, 2008 7:55 PMI am on the side of the soldier who had to make a very tough call. He did the right thing.
If the car had been a bomb, the CBC and CTV would have just loved to give us the play by play as that soldier body was brought home to the grieving family.
These media people are ghouls. They can suck life of anything from either end of the rope.
Posted by: John V at July 29, 2008 7:58 PMOUr media are pussies--we no longer have "ink stained wretches," rather PC ryersons (no capital on purpose) graduates who have no understanding of what the "greatest generation" stood and fought for. I am ashamed of what we have become and even more ashamed of those who report on it.
Posted by: Tom Olson at July 29, 2008 8:01 PMThe car didn't stop, they kept on coming despite repeated attempts to have them stop. Soldiers have seen too many of these cars become suicide bombs. What was he supposed to do?
Posted by: Soccermom at July 29, 2008 8:39 PMAccording to my local rag several witness at the Hospital stated that the driver was okay as was Ma and Pa but two little children were dead. Okay call me a skeptic but how did they survive, as they were in the front seat, but two very small children ended up with bullet wounds? Bulltets fly over the heads of grown adults but manage to hit two little children below window range. I hope the Canadian Military will at least do a ballistic test of the bullets. This may sound cold but the Taliban and it's supporters wouldn't hesitate to shoot two children and stage a situation involving our troops to destablize Afghanistan remember the staged "Hathia event" that the US media gobbled up like koolaide?.
Posted by: Rose at July 29, 2008 8:51 PMOK to publish this before the MSM prints/broadcasts it?
...-
"Coalition Forces Kill Militants in Afghanistan Province
American Forces Press Service ^
Posted on 07/29/2008 5:16:15 PM PDT by SandRat
BAGRAM AIRFIELD, Afghanistan, July 29, 2008 – Several militants were killed during a coalition forces operation targeting a Taliban leader yesterday in Afghanistan’s Ghazni province, military officials reported.
Coalition forces searched compounds in the province’s Gairo district, targeting a militant leader known to conduct foreign fighter operations in Ghazni and Paktika provinces, officials said.
Militants inside a building and around other buildings engaged the force with small-arms fire and rocket-propelled grenades. Coalition forces responded with small-arms fire and air strikes, killing the militants and damaging a building, officials said.
During their search, coalition forces found bomb-making materials and rigged explosives within a building, as well as a vehicle rigged with explosives. Troops also found several rocket-propelled grenades and a vehicle used to transport them.
Coalition forces destroyed the munitions, explosives and both vehicles after moving all residents to a safe location, officials said.
(From a Combined Joint Task Force 101 news release.)"
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2053394/posts
Thank you Katie for helped with our understanding how this tragedy might have unfolded.
The media's job is to sell newspapers; ours is to support our troops.
Posted by: Earl the Pearl at July 29, 2008 10:27 PMThe car didn't stop, they kept on coming despite repeated attempts to have them stop. Soldiers have seen too many of these cars become suicide bombs. What was he supposed to do?
Posted by: Soccermom at July 29, 2008 8:39 PM
Good question! Certain media cretins, whose combat experience consists of renting a copy of "Hamburger Hill", whose idea of danger is walking past a group of smokers and whose concept of bravery and sacrifice is waiting patiently while the air conditioning is being repaired take great pains to demonize the military when unfortunate incidents occur.
Did even one of these left-leaning media types offer an opinion as to exactly how the situation should have been handled? It's one thing to criticize. It's quite another to put forth a better option.
Perhaps one of the lefties who frequent this site would be kind enough to enlighten us as to how the situation should have evolved.
Posted by: biff at July 29, 2008 11:45 PMA friend of mine was a CF member of the SAT in Afghanistan. Apparently, the bureaucrats of DFAIT were worse than useless. The Afghans didn't like them, and they flat-out refused to cooperate with the military. Information flow was a completely one-way street. It seems that an anti-military attitude is very much entrenched in
Foreign Affairs, and they deeply resented what they viewed as DND interference in their turf. It also seemed to my friend that many of the bureaucrats were more interested in big parties in Kabul than actually doing anything worthwhile. They were markedly reluctant to leave their compounds.
Maybe the driver of the car was looking for a way to get rid a liability - like one less *ucking kid to feed? What better way that to take a run at a convoy and hope that they can transfer the blame to those Canadian Infidel Crusaders?
Posted by: Whorehouse piano player at July 30, 2008 12:37 AMMaybe the Taliban is having a bomb shortage and they figure they can do more political damage using children instead.
Posted by: Anthony at July 30, 2008 12:44 AMWhat would be the Taliban term for collateral damage? THERE IS NONE! These cowards will readily murder their own if there is any political advantage to be gained.
Our people did the right thing. There are thousands of people in Afghanistan going to school, receiving medical attention, eating regularly, and just plain living, in spite of the efforts of the Afghani Taliban and our own local Taliban contingent employed in the media.
Its a war, and war is not pretty.
Posted by: CRB at July 30, 2008 1:30 AMA 25mm round is an unforgiving mistress when it is unleashed..it is a high kinetic energy round that could rip straight through a car block,never distort, never fragment, and carry on between the passenger and driver straight and true to kill or maim those in the back seat.
Smaller 20mm cannons were used during the second world war in aircraft to bring down bombers.. You do not want to be in the way of one in a soft skin vehicle.
In Africa, we would have 'families' doing much the same thing, with children in tow, to probe our weak spots or willingness to defend ourselves, relying on the belief that we did not shoot women or children.
I have to shake my head at the type of people who believe that a well placed shot in the tire or block, (without casualties), could defuse the situation..if only!
You have seconds to react, and even then it may not be enough, as i witnessed, where the car and driver were lit up by machine gun fire, but momentum still slammed the car filled with explosives against one of our vehicles..
Posted by: Kursk at July 30, 2008 3:47 AMIt does not matter how may lives our troops save, the commie media in this country will always sell them out at the end of the day.
They did the same thing to my brother when he returned home from Somalia. They were all portrayed as war criminals because of the actions of a few bad apples.
It sometimes has to make me wonder if the 50 + years that my 2 brothers and I spent in uniform serving this country were a big ass waste of time.
War is hell, combat is messy, and sometimes people die who should not die.......maybe our leftarded jerk off media can take it up with the taliban.
Posted by: kingstonlad at July 30, 2008 6:26 AMThe CBC gives the CF the crappy end of the stick every week, week in, week out.
Posted by: grok at July 30, 2008 9:03 AMKursk brings up an extremely good point. There's plenty of people out there who think it is possible to hit a speeding car in the tire or the engine with a 20mm cannon mounted on a LAV.
Just for you people, I have an experiment. Take yourself to the side of the highway with a camera, and try to take pictures of the speeding cars with the engine or the tire perfectly centered in the frame. Now try it with the zoom at full. You will discover that this is very difficult.
You will no doubt be surprised by this, and you will no doubt be surprised to learn that it is easier to use the camera at full zoom than an auto-cannon mounted on a tank. This is because you are IGNORANT of the entire subject of marksmanship, guns and armed conflict. You think you know how it should be, but in truth you do not.
A well trained gunner who practices constantly is doing extremely well to hit a small car speeding toward him under battle conditions. Hitting just the engine is a fluke, not marksmanship. Most of the people complaining about or soldiers couldn't cock the action on a 20mm, much less hit the engine in a car at 100 yards, even a car that was standing still.
Posted by: The Phantom at July 30, 2008 10:12 AM