test

I figure the cheering will be loud here at SDA now that your movement of "hate the left" has reached its zenith. What did you think would happen after characterizing progressives and liberals as you all do here?

Yes, Peter D. Our endgame is to turn people insane so they shoot church members. You've figured us out. Now we'll have to revert to Plan B, which is even more sinister. Hint: It involves putting a conservative hostess on The View...

Wrong Peter D -- not here. I suspect most of us are saddened that this unfortunate and tragic event took place. You can continue to project that we will applause at this moment, but in reality your generalization is not true and not even close to reality. God Bless you Peter D...Don't keep hating would ya - eh!

Peter D's apparently in heaven today. He gets a nice "progressive" condescending gloat at all us knuckle-draggers at SDA, plus at the Knuckle-Draggeress-in-Chief.

Peter D - can you say 'Sweeping Generalization'?
One crackpot and everyone (in the leftosphere) will say 'look I told you the right was crazy...'
Me? - I'm waiting for the Law and Order version to come out - next week.

Peter enlightened as you are in your progressive state, you should already know Mental Illness was the culprit in this unfortunate incident.

There are so many gray areas when stuff like this happens, it just isn't as black and white as you put it here on this forum.

It's sad to see such a simplistic view especially from a progressive. Troubling actually.

Are you alright?

It is sad but Peter D. represents the "holier than thou" but totalitarian Main Stream.

"Greg McKendry was a very large gentleman, one of those people you might describe as a refrigerator with a head," said church member Schera Chadwick. "He looked like a football player. He did obviously stand up and put himself in between the shooter and the congregation."

They got lucky. And, Greg got lucky. Of course, the right conclusions will be missed by liberals that there will always be a homicidal nuts among us, that they prey upon the unarmed in malls, churches and on campuses because it's unlikely their plan ends abruply. Without big Greg's fast actions and valor it would have ended very very badly. Apparently the guy had 70 rounds of ammunition and was prepared to go to the last bullet before his final suicide-by-cops, so typical.

Where the kill-them-all psychos stalk their prey is the usual gun-free-zones where the cops are almost always late and useless on the scene like Virginia Tech. You just have to hope that in that sea of cars in the parking lot some citizen exercising his/her Second Amendment right has a gun to retrieve. Except that lefties would deny that chance.

Strange isn't it that on our campuses and in our churches where fire safety and drills are a mandate, liberals would never have the commonsense to organize their members for their own protection when faced with an armed psycho. Over and over again most of these totally unpreventable horrors end with the cops too late, followed by the coroner. Liberals never get that.

The Unitarians got lucky on this one, thank God.

Another symptom of a society going barbaric by the day. Killing innocents is no way to vent your frustrations.
What Jim D. Adkisson did is horrific, irrational & full of malice, but I would like some more information on why he did it, like those videos. There is a puzzle piece missing here. Even the KKK had reasons to blow up Black churches as ugly as they where, why this guy went after this deist group has my attention if not scratching my head. If your going to go after your perceived tormenters , than hunt down your congressmen or MP. Why schools, or MacDonald’s, or all the other places?

The right wing noise machine has been characterizing liberals, leftists, etc... in an overtly negative and dehumanizing way for a long, long time. This act of violence is just the logical extension of those characterizations.

Interesting, though, that this guy gets labeled a crackpot or as someone with a mental illness, but I wonder whether or not you would be so kind if the guy killed a soldier or was a Muslim.

This was killing by a man who hates LIBERALS isn't it? It isn't a far leftie killing conservatives. I understand it's a loser who has an issue with lefties and Christians and life itself.

'Interesting, though, that this guy gets labeled a crackpot or as someone with a mental illness, but I wonder whether or not you would be so kind if the guy killed a soldier or was a Muslim.'

Labeled? Tell me how could he be anything other than a crackpot or have a mental illness...? Why do you think it would bother us less if he was a soldier or a muslim? Murder is Murder. Period.

'Right Wing noise machine...'? - do you guys speak in any other terms but cliches? Check your dogma at the door man.

Of course the guy was crazy. If he were sane he would have gone after Peter D.

"'Why Do They Hate Us?' It is a question that aches today in the heart of every liberal."

Say, Kate, isn't that the same question that, in your view, we morally relativistic, yellow-bellied liberals were insisting the US ask itself in the aftermath of 9/11?

And now you've mischievously turned that around on us, knowing that it would only expose our hypocrisy to condemn you for posing such an insensitive political question while the tragedy is still young and emotions still raw! How witty and sly you are! Clever Kate! Cheeky Kate!

Oooh, we've tasted our own medicine, and it is bitter!

RD - this was his ex-wife's church.

"The right wing noise machine has been characterizing liberals, leftists, etc... in an overtly negative and dehumanizing way for a long, long time. This act of violence is just the logical extension of those characterizations"

Unlike, of course, how the left wing noise machine has been characterizing conservatives, right-wingers, etc., I suppose. What a silly, silly statement. The man who typed those words must be very silly indeed.

The right wing noise machine has been characterizing liberals, leftists, etc... in an overtly negative and dehumanizing way for a long, long time.

Peter, spare me your faux indignation, a 10 minute trip around Google would bring up some of the most vile lefty dehumanizing of GWB, Harper, conservatives, "the religious right", the "neocons, "red necks", yada, yada, yada in about a one hundred to one ratio. You never noticed? Please, spare us.

So, please, take you phoney little indignation elsewhere. It's not working out for you here.

Peter D: You have handily won the idiot of the day award. Right, the killings were a result of the Rightwing noise machine ... just like the attempt on Reagan was a result of the leftwing noise machine. What's your bloody IQ?

Where have you been ever since G.W.Bush got elected the first time? I have never in my entire life seen such an ongoing, hateful, and shameless attack on conservatives as that launched by the left over the past 7 years ... never. Not even during Reagan, Thatcher ... never. From blogs to subtle MSM hit pieces to street protests to riots and even birthday cards ... it is everywhere. Sure, conservatives bash the left, but the breadth and width of the leftwing attack on everything Republican and conservative is stunning in magnitude. Even Condi Rice got hammered in rude, racist, bigotted editorials and blog pieces.

Peter ... if your IQ is up to it, read up on mental illness starting with schizophrenia.

Collective,

I think you almost understood the irony. But not quite.

Hilarious.

"Peter ... if your IQ is up to it, read up on mental illness starting with schizophrenia."

Oh, f*ck that. Speaking as the resident schizophrenic here I'd like to point out that (statistically speaking) you're less likely to get gunned down by someone belonging to my demographic than you are an actual "sane" person.

My condolences to the victims and their families in Knoxville. This is horrible beyond words.

Paul: "Right, the killings were a result of the Rightwing noise machine ... just like the attempt on Reagan was a result of the leftwing noise machine."

You're right, those are idiotic claims. About as idiotic as claiming that 9/11 and other terrorist attacks were the result of Islam.

If I call Peter D an idiot, will you do the same about Kathy Shaidle, Irwin Daisy, etc.?

Sean: In mass random murder cases, Schizophrenics figure pretty large. Delusions drive many mass random murders.

But, you are right in the sense that the average schizophrenic poses no more threat than anybody else. I too know, having loved and lost one and as a result studied the desease.

Cheers!

QE: Wrong.

Murder is part of Islamic ideology. It is taught to millions and lauded by purists.

Please point out to me where the "rightwing noise machine" lauds and teaches the murder of those on the left side of the aisle to millions of its followers.

"Please point out to me where the "rightwing noise machine" lauds and teaches the murder of those on the left side of the aisle to millions of followers."

Right after you point out to me where the billion-plus practitioners of Islam around the world, or even the half-million-plus practitioners of Islam in Canada, are all learning and planning to murder us.

Peter D said: "What did you think would happen after characterizing progressives and liberals as you all do here?"

Gawd I love Liberals. Peter D, perfect PERFECT example of what makes Liberals hopeless retards and the most dangerous people alive, simultaneously.

A lone gunman shoots up a Liberal "church" in the USA, here's the liberal blaming us eeeevile Conservatives at SDA, a CANADIAN blog, for causing this atrocity. It is this kind of thinking that has us facing the likes of Lucy and his CHRC band.

But can Peter D. see a connection between rap music and kids getting shot in Toronto? Nope. Islam and battered women? Nope. Welfare, alcohol and astronomical rates of infant mortality on Indian reserves? Nope. Safe injection sites and an increase in local petty theft and assault? Nope.

Gun-free zones and high body counts caused by crazed lone gunmen? Nope.

No, Peter D doesn't make those connections. That would take thought, and Peter doesn't think. He feeeeeels.

Peter D also said: "Interesting, though, that this guy gets labeled a crackpot or as someone with a mental illness, but I wonder whether or not you would be so kind if the guy killed a soldier or was a Muslim."

Well Peter, if you stir your superior liberal arse to do ten minutes research, you will discover that most lone gunmen in Western countries are people with a history of mental illness, often schizophrenia or bi-polar disorder.

That means they are cracked. Mental. Looney tunes. Unable to distinguish reality from not-reality. Somewhat like a normal Liberal actually, but much worse.

Your average Muslim mass murderer by contrast is usually completely normal, comfortably middle class, educated and healthy. The name Khadr springs to mind. He's also supported by a logistics train of like-minded individuals.

So there's one more thing about Liberals like Peter D. They can't tell the difference between mental illness and an act of war.

So let me get this straight. I'm an idiot with a low IQ. The guy should have killed me instead. I'm silly. And liberals smear conservatives much more than the other way around. Good stuff.

So getting back to the actual substance of the article - the guy has Hannity and O'Reilly books (and no doubts trolls Little Green Footballs), listen's to Limabaugh et al, goes and kills Liberals, yet you guys see no connection between the way the left is characterized in the right wing media/blogosphere and the killings?

Phantom,

Gawd I love Liberals. Peter D, perfect PERFECT example of what makes Liberals hopeless retards and the most dangerous people alive, simultaneously.

For one, I'm not a LIberal. Never voted Liberal in my life. Secondly, I'm not retarded, but mentally challenged - it's why I come to SDA everyday.

A lone gunman shoots up a Liberal "church" in the USA, here's the liberal blaming us eeeevile Conservatives at SDA, a CANADIAN blog, for causing this atrocity.

I didn't blame SDA - I blamed the right wing noise machine as a whole, of which, SDA is part of.

No, Peter D doesn't make those connections. That would take thought, and Peter doesn't think. He feeeeeels.

Well considering this was a post about a conservative killing liberal church goers, I didn't think I needed to make those connections here. I didn't realize this was an all in one inclusive post.

Well Peter, if you stir your superior liberal arse to do ten minutes research, you will discover that most lone gunmen in Western countries are people with a history of mental illness, often schizophrenia or bi-polar disorder.

Do you have some links to back this up Phantom, or is this just another in a long line of things you write with absolutely no proof (see Great Canadian Debate for a great example)?

"It appears that what brought him to this horrible event was his lack of being able to obtain a job, his frustration over that and his stated hatred of the liberal movement,"

Don't believe the above spin for a second; his neighbours tell a *very* different story and the media and police have a well documented history of playing down the politically incorrect aspects of certain crimes.

He killed them because he was an ATHEIST who hated religious people and became visibly agitated in the presence of Christians, as has been reported; liberal had nothing to do with it.

You may now commence your series of bad arguments. Go.

QE: I did not say that millions are planning to murder us. Clean your glasses pleases.

But: The barbarism of Muhammad is historic fact. The sadism of Muhammad is historic fact. The ultra-chauvinism of Muhammad is a historic fact. The concept of violent jihad is also a historic fact taught to millions of Muslims. Your asking me to prove a fact that’s as well understood and known as the existence of Napoleon Bonaparte.
Furthermore, even the most intellectually incapable person could ply the internet and find massive statistical and historic evidence that violent jihad is taught to millions of Muslims. Not all, and perhaps not even most … but millions nevertheless.

Your insistence for proof is a childish attempt to avoid the fact that nowhere in any context do mainstream “rightwingers” advocate the murder of Leftwingers. Your dodge is disingenuous.

You lose.

Pete: And yes, you are an idiot ... for making the most bigoted statement on this thread.

Atheists Blow: "He killed them because he was an ATHEIST who hated religious people and became visibly agitated in the presence of Christians, as has been reported; liberal had nothing to do with it."

Wrong: 3w.getreligion.org/?p=3755

Atheists Blow: "He killed them because he was an ATHEIST who hated religious people and became visibly agitated in the presence of Christians, as has been reported; liberal had nothing to do with it."

Wrong. Google the phrase "Nailing down motives".

Petey,

No doubt you also think Grand Theft Auto compels people to shoot each other too.

"the guy has Hannity and O'Reilly books (and no doubts trolls Little Green Footballs), listen's to Limabaugh et al, goes and kills Liberals, yet you guys see no connection between the way the left is characterized in the right wing media/blogosphere and the killings? "

Im tired of nuance, quite frankly if you believe what you just spewed here you are an unapologetic moron.

Pete: And yes, you are an idiot ... for making the most bigoted statement on this thread.

It's Peter, Pau. Most bigoted? Praytell, what was that?

He killed them because he was an ATHEIST who hated religious people and became visibly agitated in the presence of Christians, as has been reported; liberal had nothing to do with it.

Oh thank god we cleared that up. Of course he was an atheist, another in a long line of atheists who kill those for not believing what they do (for the sarcasm impaired, that was, um, sarcasm).

No doubt you also think Grand Theft Auto compels people to shoot each other too.

No, not directly - but it is all part and parcel of a culture of violence that is the center of western pop culture.

Im tired of nuance, quite frankly if you believe what you just spewed here you are an unapologetic moron.

I thought I was silly and an idiot. It's hard to keep up. Do I believe what I wrote - sure. I think the right wing noise machine has painted a picture of liberals as idiotic, silly morons who are destroying western civilization. After you dehumanize someone, the next logical step is to kill them. Done and done.

I think Peter D should ponder the occasional Unionized leftist postie who opens fire on his comrades. I know it hasn't happened for some time, but it has happen several times in the past.

It's a the act of a whack job plain and simple. As much as I despised the leftist movement I would never resort to something like that. There is no way I would ever be willing to throw my happy life away on the likes of a pack of worthless leftists. I think most sane people feel the same way.

We will defeat you with logic, determination and vigilance. Three things you severely lack. Although your determination to get your hands on other people's money never ceases to amaze me.

If you had an logic or reason you wouldn't have to be told these things.

Peter, dude, its called "Google". They have this thing where you type in what you want and then they find it for you. For FREE! Awesome, eh?

Oh, but I forgot. Liberals aren't good with machinery. Here, lemme help you, poor crippled thing that you are. I type in "multiple victim public shooting" and I get this:

//johnrlott.tripod.com/2007/04/on-stopping-multiple-victim-public.html
That's John Lott's website.

//homepage.usask.ca/~sta575/cdn-firearms/Lott/multiples.txt
That's a paper on the subject. Note the University of Sask there, I like that part.

Lott's done a large amount of research into the matter. I've read it ALL plus a hell of a lot more, up to about 1999 after which these guys all started repeating themselves and I lost interest.

You might also read his book, "More Guns, Less Crime". www.amazon.com/More-Guns-Less-Crime-Understanding/dp/0226493636

He makes a nice overview of the literature, and his arguments are extremely well supported.

I never write about things with no proof Petey. You just never bother to read any of it. Probably because it would threaten your cozy little world view if you did. I've likely forgotten more about this subject than you'll ever know if you start reading tonight and keep it up until you're old. Like maybe even 30!

Now, should you want to actually -learn- something, I suggest you read almost anything at all written by Dr. Martin Fackler. Here's a great one.

//rkba.org/research/fackler/wrong.html

He's about the only guy out there who knows jack about the actual function of bullets in the human body. Terminal ballistics. That ought to shake your creepy liberal foundations for ya.

"liberals as idiotic, silly morons who are destroying western civilization."

Peter,

See you have hit on a truth here. Your ilk has already dehumanized our society by decriminalizing the murder unborn children and elevating same sex-marriage to same status hetro marriage. By leading the way in creating the current drug culture we all struggle to deal with. You have worked tirelessly to destroy self-reliance and create the house of card known as the welfare-state. I could go on, but I think you get the point. Your ilk is ruining Western society and that is a fact.

"liberals as idiotic, silly morons who are destroying western civilization."

Peter,

See you have hit on a truth here. Your ilk has already dehumanized our society by decriminalizing the murder unborn children and elevating same sex-marriage to same status hetro marriage. By leading the way in creating the current drug culture we all struggle to deal with. You have worked tirelessly to destroy self-reliance and create the house of card known as the welfare-state. I could go on, but I think you get the point. Your ilk is ruining Western society and that is a fact.

He killed them because he was an ATHEIST who hated religious people and became visibly agitated in the presence of Christians, as has been reported; liberal had nothing to do with it.

You may now commence your series of bad arguments. Go.

Posted by: Atheists Blow at July 28, 2008 10:31 PM

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

ahh, yes, it's us'n atheists,, sigh, caught agin

actually I don't shoot idiot kristians, I find them rather entertaining, sorta like the Buggsy show:-))))

"liberals as idiotic, silly morons who are destroying western civilization."

Peter,

See you have hit on a truth here. Your ilk has already dehumanized our society by decriminalizing the murder unborn children and elevating same sex-marriage to he same status as
hetro marriage. By leading the way in creating the current drug culture we all struggle to deal with. You have worked tirelessly to destroy self-reliance and create the house of card known as the welfare-state. I could go on, but I think you get the point. Your ilk is ruining Western society and that is a fact.

I think the right wing noise machine has painted a picture of liberals as idiotic, silly morons who are destroying western civilization

Let me level with you, Peter, you are a raging lefty silly idiot, repeating over and over the typical feelings drivel, sort of boring in the way that juveniles are when one reaches adulthood, and, really, look around, there is no next step as in killing you even though it makes you feel more important. Get a grip.

Your time as a fifteen minutes of troll fame here has ended. And, to anyone still willing to resond to you, it isn't worth it.

if two person grow differently and do not understand each other language

if one person force too much to other person to listen to abuser

if two person pretend they are ok until they blow up nad not communication they got seperated

hate is nature of 3 elements above said

when you go above you feel you do not like the person and continue work or see them and go under skin it create hate

lack of family and relatioship
Italian and Middle easter are value to family member alot and this relatioship made them reduce stress

not happy and get stressed

the guy was old unemployeed may be drunk and mostly may be mentaly ill and hate house of god

or may have parents to show this direction or grwo him hate church or he did not like enjoyment and calmness of church while they were not happy they look happy most people go to church look very happy doing this

West deisciplin and bad abusive language
I watched the celberity on drug on TV yesterday
it showed the one of the lady said she had very abusive mother and when she was too young forced her for any small fault go to basement and stay long and never come back I really hate this West Candain and AMerican diciplin who force kid go to your room and stay there for a while and child is crying this is not correct punishment for kid

in last person with no heart go and harm anybody else taht is all I can say when your eyes cover by ignorance your heart will be get locked to see humanity

some times the problmes is not the person did crime but also their parents their society thier unemployement in Canda is abusive deal with unemployment people and so many other factors
we need social worker who know real social worker deal with poor people probably the guy come to recieve some donation from the church andnobody helped him

the reason in India Hindu kill Muslim who both are citized of one countreis why they did for hate each other to wish not even born that is lack of communication and grow seperately and not say before they blow up

not every body able to talk or say theri opinin may be theri parenst grow them with full abusive

people who drink and use cigar and use drugs are peopel who have emptyness in their heart look for cure while the cure is that to drink or use drug but find solution for their problems
in west if some one has problems nobody helped them they put them under water more and socitey are not talk in middle east one big family help and advice other younger or people in trouble to find solution for them in west there is not family relatioship and freind only for business not for real freinship in canada

The major is lack of freinship and how to like some one need to teach in this countries more or less

Pete: "I figure the cheering will be loud here at SDA now that your movement of "hate the left" has reached its zenith."

... stereotyping this "idiotic" could only come from a raging bigot.

QE: About Muslims murdering non-Muslims. When it's the act of a lone Muslim who has a history of rage or paranoia, it's likely the act of a lone madman. If the murder is perpetrated by an organization rooted in Islamic doctrine, then ideology is the factor. ie: Islamic terrorism, Islamic honor killing ... and that makes a hell of a lot of death.

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www.hotbite.com.au/content/articles/idx_showArticle.php?art_id=121

PauL: "You lose."

FYI: Self-declaring victory during an argument? Only makes you look like a d!ck.

"...nowhere in any context do mainstream 'rightwingers' advocate the murder of Leftwingers."

Gee, no kidding. Way to set up a strawman, tear it down, and then self-declare victory.

"Please point out to me where the 'rightwing noise machine' lauds and teaches the murder of those on the left side of the aisle to millions of its followers."

Easy. In the minds of anyone who interprets 'rightwing noise machine' as promoting hatred of lefties.

Now here's the hard part: transpose that same argument onto your own interpretation of Islam.

Here's a hint: Despite what he might think, most rational observers would agree that Peter's view of the RW machine is, in reality, quite marginal. Here's a bigger hint: Peter is you.

"If the murder is perpetrated by an organization rooted in Islamic doctrine, then ideology is the factor. ie: Islamic terrorism, Islamic honor killing ... and that makes a hell of a lot of death."

Let me say this clearly, for your benefit: that murderous organization's 'Islamic doctrine,' 'Islamic terrorism', and 'Islamic honor killing' are all merely YOUR interpretation of what Islam is, not what it actually is/can be.

Welcome to Hotbite

"All it takes is to burly up the water we intend to fish. When using burly you still want to pick the most likely area for fish to be in, otherwise you may have to wait a long time for the fish to follow up the scent to where you are fishing."

http://tinyurl.com/6lpjpa

Sorry about the triple post, this thing is acting weird tonight.

QE: I'll paraphrase you:

"There is no reality ... it's only what you make reality to be."

therefore:

Criticism leads to Hate which leads to Murder.

You should apply for a spot on a Canuck HRC.

Nice dodge ... once again.

"In mass random murder cases, Schizophrenics figure pretty large. Delusions drive many mass random murders."

The majority of random mass murders are committed by individuals suffering from psychosis. My personal belief is that an overly large number of these crimes are attributed to schizophrenics when the truth is that there are a large number of conditions that can induce psychotic behavior. Schizophrenia is a difficult disease to diagnose, especially in retrospect.

Pardon my touchiness, but one gets very damn tired of being over-represented on Law & Order.

Sean: No problem. I use the term in a broad generic sense.

Cheers!

ATHEIST or mostly people who are not believe god are lie so much they also not scared of superpower of god

people who are not belive god are :
can be Atheist Indain original or hindo or Sikh or teh group of people who say they belive the god but their act are proof they are not belive god and not fear for gor and not mercy of anything

if you not fear of god and not beleive god you do crime
so many people even may say they are christian but still do crime because in thier heart never think of god once a day and not fear of god

people who do not bleive god called Kafer in Islam and fight them
people who say they belive god in their heart they are lying are two faces are worst than Kafer
since reconginze Kafer is eay
but recognize the persons say I bleive god but in private do anything god forbid them they are called in islam 'Monafeq'

Monafeq are worst than Kafer

house of god to worship god should get attacked by any people who rejected the god
these way and method scared peopel for their bleif
in india people scared to go to mosque or get recognizew tehy will kill them too this is hate

hate of evil over innocent people

I had known on Indian candain I asked him what you are doing he said he is praying I said you do not bleive god who you praying for he did not answer but evil EYES is acceptable in all religion

which is evil sprirtual and some Atheic song is scary to me while tehy could think and concentrate peopel in evil way too

all religion should concentrate to let china India and origianl indaian in Canada and USA become beliver of god even not like to become christian or Jews or Muslim it does not matter
if we encourage people belive god adn fear of god the city is more safe and less crime

Paul: "There is no reality ... it's only what you make reality to be."

You truly are stupid.

My point is, there is reality, and then there's your (flawed) interpretation of it.

Why do you folks bother with the likes of Petee and QE?At any point in a debate they could come up with "OH Yea Wanna Bet" and truly think they win the debate.

Peter D.: "So getting back to the actual substance of the article - the guy has Hannity and O'Reilly books (and no doubts trolls Little Green Footballs), listen's to Limabaugh et al, goes and kills Liberals, yet you guys see no connection between the way the left is characterized in the right wing media/blogosphere and the killings?"

No, not unless there was also a lot more violence against right-wingers due of the left's demonization of the right.

As I recall, the killing of Pim Fortuyn was an isolated event, and this one probably is too.

P. S. As an atheist I'd wager that any criticism one could make of the Qur'an regarding condoning violence could be applied to the Bible too.

Rob C: "At any point in a debate they could come up with 'OH Yea Wanna Bet' and truly think they win the debate."

Sort of like how Paul came up with 'You lose' a few comments above, eh?

nv53:"P. S. As an atheist I'd wager that any criticism one could make of the Qur'an regarding condoning violence could be applied to the Bible too."
I have to disagree. It's been a long time since a Christian Holy Man issued a decree condemning a critic to death. Biblical violence is also relegated for the most part to what is known as the Old Testament. And yes there are self proclaimed Christian clerics who subscribe to violence but they are very much on the fringes of the religion and do not, for example, command whole countries. They also are condemned by the mainstream Faith.

How anyone could read this thread and come to the conclusion that a partisan party system is a good thing for democracy is beyond me.

What a neverending, utterly pointless bunch of rhetorical bullshit.

Sigh.

Honestly, this post makes me feel dirty after reading it. I do not care what the motivations were for killing people, it is WRONG.

That a out of work, loner, decides to kill strangers in a public place and chooses a group with whom he has some ideological disagreement can be explained.

When the first such kind of public hostage/skyjackings occurred in the late 1960s or early 70s many were shot by FBI SWAT teams. The ones that were captured or did not die where interviewed by an Psychiatrist(a Dr. Hubbard if memory serves) to find out what they were thinking.

They were despondent, lonely and considering suicide and viewed themselves as failures in life.
The public hostage takings/skyjackings with the attending sensationalized media coverage made them feel important for a few minutes. Even having someone else kill them was seen by them as saving them the unpleasant task of killing themselves.

The FBI psychiatrist approached the major media editors and explained his findings. He asked only that they refrain from sensationalized coverage. Largely, they complied and the skyjacking/hostage takings dropped off dramatically. Yes, there was a time when major media had a conscience and took responsibility for their work.

Now with continent wide media providing highly sensationalized, saturation coverage they guarantee the despondent loser fifteen minutes of fame. And then failing to admit their own role in "if it bleeds, it leads" policies they look for a favourite scapegoat to blame. Until recently they blamed citizen access to firearms and advocated N.Y.C./Washington, D.C./Chicago style gun control.

As that has lost it's credibility to a U.S. citizenry that refused to give in, and also to a Supreme Court confirming a Constitutional Right.A new version of the scapegoat appears. This story tries to lay blame on conservative ideology implying that is a threat to public safety, thereby exploiting the deaths of innocents at the hands of a sociopathic loser.

The most famous Canadian copycat example was Gamel Gharbi, the son of an Algerian, Muslim wife beater who shot and stabbed 13 women to death in Montreal in 1989. The only journalist who continues to refer to him by his birth name is Mark Steyn. In order to exploit that incident for a radical, anti-male, activists agenda they only refer to him as Mark Lepine and pretended he was a typical Canadian male.

Mainsteam major media types view their job as ideological warfare rather than a profession with the highest value on a search for the truth and the facts. By abandoning a reasoned and balanced presentation they have made blogging journalists like Michael Totten, Yon, etc the highest form of that profession.

Irony abounds, but largely only in the blogisphere.

Kate, do you ever get tired of 98% missing the point of your posts. Collective got it fairly early on, but I guess troll baiting is more fun. (I have to admit - I missed it at first too, thanks Collective. James, if you feel dirty - go back a bit a try to get the point - ie 9/11, root causes etc.

I see Peter D has finally shut up. Troll hammer works, sometimes.

Funny, there was another massacre in Knoxville that wasn't reported as widely. For some reason I can't quite put my finger on...

(Serious content warning -- not for sensitive readers):

http://vdare.com/stix/071031_knoxville.htm

Churches and Schools are prime targets for armed nutters because they are guaranteed target rich environments of unarmed victims.

This ass would have gotten how far at a civilian gun range?

And the guy who shot up Virginia Tech hated the Roman Catholic Church and Bush. Does that make you responsible for that, PeterD? You'd better turn yourself over to the cops, then.

Larry: "The only journalist who continues to refer to him by his birth name is Mark Steyn. In order to exploit that incident for a radical, anti-male, activists agenda they only refer to him as Mark Lepine and pretended he was a typical Canadian male."

Ever consider the possibility that Mark Steyn similarly exploits that incident for his own radical, anti-Muslim, activist agenda by only referring to Lepine as Gamil Gharbi? Oh right, Steyn speaketh the truth, while all other journalists whisper only lies.

Why is Adkisson just a guy who went crazy and killed a bunch of people, while Garbi/Lepine is the son of an wife-beating, child-beating, Algerian Muslim immigrant who grew up and killed a bunch of people? Why can't he just be crazy too?

Re: Knoxville massacre: Prepare to puke your guts out:

"Ghetto Bragging Rights Unplugged gossip columnist Clarence Star has learned, in a desperate attempt to resurrect her career, Britney Spears may be considering playing the alleged Knoxville carjacking victim, Channon Christian, in NigleryMedia’s forecoming movie about the January 2007 crime.

Spears, who is said to have visited the house on Chipman street where Christian’s rape and murder allegedly took place, is believed to be very excited about the role.

“She likes the sex scenes,” a source close to the Spears camp says. “She likes the script and the concept.”
...
“We’re producing it from the perspective that Channon Christian orchestrated the whole thing. Britney taking the role of Channon Christian is also very exciting. She is a very sexual person. The public will appreciate seeing her in this role. It is guranteed to revitalize her career,” a source close to the production said.

The more here is that it is now being reported that celebrity felon St. Nicolas Thief , who held the pro carjacker rally, may have signed on board the project to play the character of the carjacking ring leader, Lemaricus Davidson."

blackface.wordpress.com/2008/07/27/britney-relives-channon-christians-black-gang-rape-in-new-movie-the-knoxville-carjacking/

Yeah, I trust the media to report potentially incendiary stories in an honest manner. *SNEER*

nv53: "As an atheist I'd wager that any criticism one could make of the Qur'an regarding condoning violence could be applied to the Bible too."

As an agnostic, and having studied the bible extensively, and the Qur'an to a lesser degree, I can say that you are absolutely wrong. The New Testament Bible is by and large pacifist while the Qur'an is the how-to of smite thy enemies, abuse women, and abuse those you dominate. Even the Old Testament Bible doesn't hold a candle to it. Muslims have to twist pretty hard to come up with "peaceful" out of Islam. Christians have to twist pretty hard to come up with "violence" from the New Testament.

QE said: "Why is Adkisson just a guy who went crazy and killed a bunch of people, while Garbi/Lepine is the son of an wife-beating, child-beating, Algerian Muslim immigrant who grew up and killed a bunch of people? Why can't he just be crazy too?"

I'm sure he was, QE. Good ol' Gamil Gharbi was -probably- just another standard-issue lone gunman loon. Maybe you can look that up for us eh?

I'm thinking more along the lines of the wonderful guys who blew up a bunch of people in India yesterday. 45 killed, lots more wounded (which includes horrifically mangled, burned, limbs blown off, blinded, deafened and permanently scarred, don't forget) by "An obscure Islamic militant group" according to the NZ Herald.

Can you make that connection? Can you tell the difference between an act of mental illness and an act of war?

get over it. God will still b e here, there and everywhere long after all the aholes have been buried and judged.

"Even the Old Testament Bible doesn't hold a candle to it."

Oh my friend... the Old Testament is a violent "record" of genocide, incest, and human sacrifice. Don't go getting all high and mighty. Christians and Jews are just as loony as their Muslim cousins.

To be sure... C&J looniness might be in remission right now in comparison to some Muslims who's eyes are rolling about in their heads with religious zeal, but make no mistake... there are plenty of nutbar Jesus-freaks just a-waitin' to kill for god.

And Kate, I know that you're desperate to turn this tragedy into yet another way to bash the centre and left, but face it... this guy is one of your own, probably weaned on rightwing blogs and forums to believe those evil liberals are out to give him the gay, or worse, universal healthcare.

Greg:

I think you're incorrect here...Kate is making fun of Liberals who constantly seized upon those statements by GWB regarding the Islamic world "hating our freedom" and whatnot. Whether or not she actually believes that, I'm not sure.

Personally I think it ranks up there as one of the stupidest statements GWB has made during his tenure as POTUS. It shows a complete and fundamental misunderstanding of the situation in the Middle East, and a misunderstanding of the grievances of those peoples. Now, I suppose you really could say they hate "freedom" in the sense that they would like society to adhere to a strict moral code, and many would prefer theocracies rather than democracies, but regardless, the statement made by GWB was completely daft.

"What did you think would happen after characterizing progressives and liberals as you all do here?"

Look at history Peter, socialists have killed more people than any other religion/ideology in history. Yes, an evil right wing man committed an act of political violence, but it is an exceptional situation. Most Right Wing speech is much more respectful of diverse political opinion than liberals and progressives. Your speech however Peter points toward censorship since you wrongly equate our hatred of liberal and progressive ideas with this crime. We are all allowed to express our contempt for the foolish.

My prayers go out to the families of the dead.

Not again. Leftard is such a fitting description.

"Right after you point out to me where the billion-plus practitioners of Islam around the world, or even the half-million-plus practitioners of Islam in Canada, are all learning and planning to murder us." - QE

Exhibit A:

"people who do not bleive god called Kafer in Islam and fight them" - Isam (12:32am)

I wonder where this resident Muslim learned that?

Could it be the Quran?

Quran 9:123, where Allah says: 'O ye who believe! Fight the infidels who are near to you, and let them find ruthlessness in you, and know that Allah is with the faithful.'

Quran 9:29 “Fight those who believe not in God nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of truth, (even if they are) of the people of the Book [Christians and Jews], until they pay the jizya [poll tax] with willing submission, feel themselves subdued.” (kill them unless they submit to either becoming Muslim or extortion)

Quran 9:5 When the sacred months have passed away, THEN SLAY THE IDOLATERS WHEREVER YOU FIND THEM, AND TAKE THEM CAPTIVES AND BESIEGE THEM AND LIE IN WAIT FOR THEM IN EVERY AMBUSH, then if they repent and keep up prayer [become believers] and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them. (this verse abrogates 125 less violent verses)

Plenty more where those came from. Oh, and then there's the Sira and Hadiths ("Kill the Jews wherever you find them" - Mo).

-----

And, John ("Christians and Jews are just as loony as their Muslim cousins") is an imbecile.

Don,

"socialists have killed more people than any other religion/ideology in history"

I think Islam takes that prize:

"Jihad destroyed a Christian Middle East and a Christian North Africa. Soon it was the fate of the Persian Zoroastrian and the Hindu to be the victims of jihad. The history of political Islam is the destruction of Christianity in the Middle East, Egypt, Turkey and North Africa. Half of Christianity was lost. Before Islam, North Africa was the southern part of Europe (part of the Roman Empire). Around 60 million Christians were slaughtered during the jihadic conquest. Half of the glorious Hindu civilization was annihilated and 80 million Hindus killed. The first Western Buddhists were the Greeks descended from Alexander the Great's army in what is now Afghanistan. Jihad destroyed all of Buddhism along the silk route. About 10 million Buddhists died. The conquest of Buddhism is the practical result of pacifism. Zoroastrianism was eliminated from Persia. The Jews became permanent dhimmis throughout Islam. In Africa over 120 million Christians and animists have died over the last 1400 years of jihad. Approximately 270 million nonbelievers died over the last 1400 years for the glory of political Islam. These are the Tears of Jihad which are not taught in any school." -- Jamie Glazov, 2007

Irwin, the only people who share your particular characterization of Islam are actual terrorists.

And if believing that twisted perversion of faith makes them a bunch of wacko fundamentalist nutjobs -- and I think we can agree that they are -- then what would that make you?

"Irwin, the only people who share your particular characterization of Islam are actual terrorists."

Really?

And perhaps these people, no?

"Killing for religion is justified, say third of Muslim students"

(telegraph.co.uk) A third of Muslim students in Britain believe killing someone in the name of religion is justified, a new poll claims.

The survey found that extreme Islamist ideology has a profound influence on a significant minority of Muslims on campuses across the country.

The findings will concern police chiefs, the security services and ministers, who are struggling with radicalisation among Muslim communities.

The YouGov poll found:

40 per cent support the introduction of sharia into British law for Muslims

a third back the notion of a worldwide Islamic caliphate (state) based on sharia law

40 per feel it is unacceptable for Muslim men and women to mix freely

24 per cent do not think men and women are equal in the eyes of Allah

a quarter have little or no respect for homosexuals.

Although 53 per cent said that killing in the name of religion was never justified, compared with 94 per cent of non-Muslims, 32 per cent said that it was.

----------

As for twisted "wacko fundamentalist nutjob" you've won the trophy prize. Take a bow.

Heh, wonder if the young females being killed in Canada for trying to be too Canadian like, wearing cool clothes, date boys of your choice, go to after school events, get a part time job, like your friends do, wont marry your old uncle as promised by your family and etc...

Just too damn bad DADDY slit your throat with your brothers help, while they were only obeying some obscure Islamic belief that no one other than a few crazies here and there hold to the letter of shiria law,
Gee and others find this All so obscure like that?

THEIR deaths are NOT reported on here in Canada, and or downplayed IF it breaks with that fact.

Almost every single religion in Canada has been hyjacked by the left (yes the left also can be Christians or Catholic), churches across the land are being devided as the left force their socialist doctorine as the "Gospel" instead of following the word of God. At one time the Church was the mainstay of a community now these self same churches lament that they aren't "Gay Friendly" enough, if a certain segment of the congregation don't like what the bible teaches they just ignore that bit and embrace socliast ideology. Can anyone really say they're surprised, devotely religious people find their faith being hyjacked by illiberal faux religious people to further erode our faith.

I suspect this fella was a nut job, he had a criminal record for being violent didn't he?

irwin daisy:

I'm not sure sure of your numbers to be honest. The worlds population at the start of the first crusades was only around 300 million people...to claim that 60 million died in north Africa, so essentially 20% of the world's population was killed in North Africa alone. Problem is that by 1750, there was still only 100 million people in Africa by itself....and if you take the following numbers, you'll again realize how silly what you're saying is:

270,000,000 / 1400 = 192,857 people killed every single year for the past 1400 years because they did not believe in Islam.

Now, sure, there were some big wars back in the day. Armies of 50,000 were around during the crusades, and when the Caliphate became a leading power, they could field even more men than that, but you're suggesting that 200,000 people were killed every year for being non-Muslim. Even if you account for Jihad's and wars...that's outrageous.

Once you tally deaths due to Christianity, you get some similarly overwhelmingly large numbers, so I don't think you've got a leg to stand on. One last fact as well: Africa hasn't even had "120 million people" living there until the year 1900, so claiming that that many have died there seems large. But Africa being Africa, maybe not.

Rose,

I just found it somewhat amusing that you claim a socialist agenda was hijacking the gospels, when they were in fact a group of believers who lived community, where nothing was their own, but rather a resource for the community at large to partake of.

Funny how hot tubs and big screen tv's seem to be ignored in how they hijack Canada's christian population in a far more profound way than homosexuality. Perhaps that's why Jesus never addressed the issue homosexuality, but rather stressed numerous times that wealth can be one of the greatest obstructions to salvation.

So what is wrong with hot tubs and big screen TVs?

Jesus never said one should aspire to be poor or dependent on government welfare.

Irwin Daisy: "A third of Muslim students in Britain believe killing someone in the name of religion is justified, a new poll claims."

Why would you take the Telegraph's report at face value? Don't you know that the MSM is full of spin and incompetence, Irwin?

Here's what the YouGov poll actually found when it asked whether it's ever justifiable to kill in the name of religion:

- Yes in order to preserve and promote that religion (note the double-barreled question -- why if you support killing for self-preservation but not self-promotion?): 4%
- Yes but only if that religion is under attack: 28%
- No, it's never justifiable: 53%

Now, given the current state of interfaith relations in the West (and the fact that people like you actually insist and desire upon a full-fledged war by the West against Islam), I think the defensive responses of that middle 28% are rather understandable.

In fact, then, only 4% of Muslim kids believe killing to preserve and promote their religion is justified, not the 'one-third' reported in the new. And of that 4%, the vast majority were Sunni, which is interesting, because given their current minority power status in Iraq, they may very well believe that the very existence of their religion is under threat.

Anyway, the rest of the survey is available for your scrutiny online. The results are not nearly as sensational as you (or the Telegraph) would have everyone believe.

E.g., A question not reported was "Do you believe that men and women SHOULD be treated equally." Results: 89% Yes, 5% No, 6% Not sure. In other words, the '24% not equal in the eyes of Allah' you cited refers to the students' intellectual opinion of their religion, not their personal beliefs about male-female equality.

Irwin is liar do not answer him. He never used relaity movies or say any thing real, but he may be close to get mentaly ill check up and he miss his check up recently. do not trust his any research tactic he is only simple ignorant
hate Muslim

we have to warn all Muslim mosque be aware of the person like Irwin never come to 10 meter close to any mosque he may do strange thing or harm muslim or damge mosque

I can imgine Irwin in night shift drop stone to all mosque in Canada he hate Muslim so badly
I can not believe this guy even exist
or what relgion he blongs defintly he is not belive any god

barjebus,

I quoted Jamie Glazov: Glazov holds a Ph.D. in History from York University in Canada. He is specialized in Soviet Studies, and U.S. and Canadian foreign policy. He's also a published historical writer.

He's one of many historians who quotes the same numbers.

I think the multiple personality disorder referring to himself collectively as Isam, haye, and now Ishaq, is the real deal. Notice the typical Islamic response used on anybody confronting their belief -"he may be close to get mentaly ill check up and he miss his check up..."

Classic.

BTW, Ishaq, I don't hate Muslims. I feel sorry for them, due to their bondage to a horrifying ideology.

Irwin watch this video, note what passes as Islamic tolerance.

Link: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=02a_1217265949

Quote: but rather stressed numerous times that wealth can be one of the greatest obstructions to salvation.

Posted by: barjebus at July 29, 2008 6:25 PM

LOL barjebus, get real I have a hot tub because my husband was wounded serving his country what exactly does that have to do with "Socialist" hyjacking our Churches to preach the gospel of Communism? Jesus wasn't a commie, but the socialist sure are. As our elderly and families walk away from organized religion in absolute horror who is going to fill the pews? Socialist that attend Church five times a year for face time or to get elected, religion isn't a drive through window Dear but somehow the left have made it appear that it is.

If Christianity and Catholism want to survive they have to cut the socialist cancer out of their religion, or they'll become one of those off shoot fake religous organizations that Preach the Gospel according to "Marx", cause that's what's happening in Canada currently.

John: "Oh my friend... the Old Testament is a violent "record" of genocide, incest, and human sacrifice. Don't go getting all high and mighty. Christians and Jews are just as loony as their Muslim cousins."

Christianity is based on the New Testament Bible, a largely pacifist document; you either know very little about what it contains ... or choose to ignore the fact. Do you have any stats indicating what the body-count is for Christians killing for Jesus?

irwin daisy: The communist body count is about 150,000,000. Nobody's been able to top that. If you consider other leftist regimes, like the German Nazis and Italian fascists ... the number is even bigger.

http://www.digitalsurvivors.com/archives/communistbodycount.php

"BTW, Ishaq, I don't hate Muslims. I feel sorry for them, due to their bondage to a horrifying ideology."

Exactly!

Rose,

The video presents an excellent example of Muslim debating skills.

Or as Churchill said, "What hydrophobia is to dogs, Islam is to man."

Thanks Rose, very telling, and did it not play out like many a discussion here?

Live trolling caught on Vid! Excellent.

Pleased me to see them arrested for their unprovoked attack just because they can't handle their own feelings. Poor hapless feeble minded females.

Not sure I wouldn't have shown such restraint.
Loved the part where he stated "religion of peace folks... piece of you here, piece of you there..."
Clear, Succinct and True.

So where are the lefties now?
Not HERE defending these poor muslim "victims" tonight?

~ cue the crickets

Hi, this is Lance.

Being, you know, not Kate, and having the keys while she's away, I've decided to edit the following for purely readability reasons. Personally, I'm rather sick of "Isam" only because figuring the comment out is bloody annoying.

Edited version follows, my edits appear in ().

---
this (There) is culture of abuse and hate in North America :

people who enjoy some one get abuse like today comments of let otehr woman are also abuser too
Those horrrr!y holly woman who enjoy watching other woman suffer they also live with abuser and love abuse others and made them frustrated

---

Nope, had enough. That second paragraph would have taken me a year or so of Islamic study to figure out. No time.

Isam, if you repeat this kind of crap I'll delete your comment without prejudice. Capish? Kate might enjoy your scrawling, but I've no tolerance.

Capish?

Cheers,
lance

QE,

You can't help but publicly devolve your already idiot brain can you?

"(and the fact that people like you actually insist and desire upon a full-fledged war by the West against Islam), I think the defensive responses of that middle 28% are rather understandable."

"the FACT"? Where did I say this?

And then based on this "fact" you build the rest of your dim-witted assertion?

Though it's redundant to point out - you are a fool.

Rose,

"LOL barjebus, get real I have a hot tub because my husband was wounded serving his country what exactly does that have to do with "Socialist" hyjacking our Churches to preach the gospel of Communism? Jesus wasn't a commie, but the socialist sure are. As our elderly and families walk away from organized religion in absolute horror who is going to fill the pews? Socialist that attend Church five times a year for face time or to get elected, religion isn't a drive through window Dear but somehow the left have made it appear that it is.

If Christianity and Catholism want to survive they have to cut the socialist cancer out of their religion, or they'll become one of those off shoot fake religous organizations that Preach the Gospel according to "Marx", cause that's what's happening in Canada currently."

What I'm getting at Rose is that your reason for living is not to simply _have_ faith, but rather to live a life emulating Jesus, no? Wealth becomes a detriment to that because I'd far rather play video games, watch movies, and live in a wealthy western society, maybe doing some charity work here and there rather than going somewhere to truly make a difference in peoples lives. Homosexuality isn't keeping anyone from helping the needy; wealth is. I'm not saying wealth is evil, I'm just pointing out that I find it humorous to rant about homosexuals and socialists when in fact, there are much deeper and more pressing issues facing the church.

Filling the pews? What does that have to do with anything? Did the gospel ever say, "go forth and fill the pews"? Most church organizations are a joke, merely pandering to our desire for feeling self-righteous.

As to communism and Jesus, please explain to me then the actions of the early church in Acts? They shared everything, lived together, broke bread together, as a community...living communally....in a _communist_ manner. I'm not saying that the bible specifically advocates communism, but rather that communism did wonders for the early church. By sharing their possessions they not only escaped the trappings of wealth that the gospel warns about, but also displayed a profound love for their fellow man to include anyone and everyone in their community.

Er... bad news guys. Buddy suckled at the teat of rightwing media. If he lived in Canada... he probably would have come here.

Why do you guys support terrorism?

"If Christianity and Catholism want to survive they have to cut the socialist cancer out of their religion"

Are you guys reading the same bible? That Jesus guy was pretty much the biggest commie who ever walked on water.

How is it conservatives can ignore all the "a rich man can no longer enter heaven than a camel can pass through the eye of a needle" stuff?

Oh that's right... he must have been speaking in metaphor. Funny how nothing is a metaphor until it's something that's really obvious and clear that you don't like.

Agent Smith: "Peter D - can you say 'Sweeping Generalization'?
One crackpot and everyone (in the leftosphere) will say 'look I told you the right was crazy...' "

Is it too much to hope that this was an elaborate meta-meta-joke of some sort?