Any culture where people hide their faces, either because the women in their society are forced to hide their faces, or because the cowards that kill these women hide their faces, is not a culture that deserves to survive.

I truly get sick and tired of seeing fools ranting in Arabic with their faces covered.

Lord of the Flies and painted faces...

The resulting outcry from moderate islam will be deafening,or not? It's not like these were useful women,they were obviously way past puberty.Allah ackbar.

It's comforting to think of these as simply extremely late term abortions.

I'd be willing to bet that this was deemed completely legal under Sharia Law.

I'm sure Jack Layton could have sent Libby Davies as a special envoy to clear this mess up...

From Wikipedia...

--------------------
The Associated Press (AP), is an American news agency. The AP is a cooperative owned by its contributing newspapers, radio and television stations in the United States, which both contribute stories to the AP and use material written by its staffers. Many newspapers and broadcasters outside the United States are AP subscribers, paying a fee to use AP material without being contributive members of the cooperative.

As of 2005, the AP's news is published and republished by more than 1,700 newspapers, in addition to more than 5,000 television and radio broadcasters. The cooperative's photograph library consists of more than 10 million images. It operates 243 news bureaus and serves 121 countries, with a diverse international staff drawing from all over the world.
------------------------

Any news organization that is part of the AP or uses its products is complicit in the murder of these women as well as numerous other incidents in the past. When you pick up your local newspaper or watch the news remember that the reporters and talking heads are all actively participating in the death of innocents and spreading enemy propaganda.

Why would you want to encourage this behavior?

I doubt the photographer could have prevented this crime. These pictures never showed up on any Canadian MSM sources. Perhaps news editors determined such material would have distracted readers and viewers from the day long orgy of Khadr-philia.

At least the Taliban didn't question them and make them cry.

Notice that the AP photo captions refer to the women being "executed" while the Jawa Report consistently uses the term "murder" (as does Fritz above).

A vital distinction, and one that civilized people must point out and pound home relentlessly.

Surrender of the language is one step on the road to surrender in the war.

These two iridescent light blue burqa clad women were shot to death by Taliban fighters who accused them of running a prostitution ring that catered to American soldiers. Fat bloody chance of that.

Its more like the weekly/monthly fear and death quotas of random innocent people ( ie: Saddam's Iraq ) - to quell the local population you understand.
Wouldn't be surprised if this AP fellow, Rahmatullah Naikzad shared a few Taliban chuckles and Khatai cookies with these "militants" at some point or another.

When these G-dless, backward, barbarous motherf*****s are finally put out of business..... busy it will be, in the next world celestial court.

As our complicit MSM continues to trot out the religion of peace bullshit in the face of these kinds of barbaric acts, cowards, faces covered as usual it is surreal. This is a religion of the devil himself if this is what classes as peace.

Well said Fritz. These so-called reporters/journalists are disgusting and both they and their work should be shunned at the very least.

Also disgusting is how all the western feminist groups (human rights groups included) continue to ignore the plight of women under Islamic rule.

The AP (and its member companies) should immediately fire everyone involved with this, develop a program to prevent this snuff "journalism" in the future, and publish an apology.

Somehow I doubt that any of those things will happen. The press is just as sick, twisted, and yellow as it was at the turn of the last century.

The AP (and its member companies) should immediately fire everyone involved with this, develop a program to prevent this snuff "journalism" in the future, and publish an apology.

Somehow I doubt that any of those things will happen. The press is just as sick, twisted, and yellow as it was at the turn of the last century.

The AP (and its member companies) should immediately fire everyone involved with this, develop a program to prevent this snuff "journalism" in the future, and publish an apology.

Somehow I doubt that any of those things will happen. The press is just as sick, twisted, and yellow as it was at the turn of the last century.

How can you even describe evil like this. Its hideous pre meditated murder. Not only the Women being killed but this guy making a snuff film of it, than staying with the fiends for a day, if not more. One can only conclude AP has been suborned for a period of time to not even see the ethical implications of this. Least of all any moral sense.

A little terror here , than follow it up with legal challenges in democracies to weaken them into rabbits for the snare. Fools that we are, we have allowed this pandering to barbarians to go on. Better to close ones eye’s to reality than having to face up to real sacrifices for freedom. The problem with that is your enemy will come for you anyway, only now your way has been lost by becoming there slave by acquiescing to unreasonable demands to keep a false peace.

"Any culture where people hide their faces, either because the women in their society are forced to hide their faces, or because the cowards that kill these women hide their faces, is not a culture that deserves to survive."

Hear, hear.

Gimme a break. Any evidence that the reporter was present is entirely circumstantial. I'm not saying that these things don't happen, and that they are not atrocities. Simply that these images prove neither.

Gimme a break. Any evidence that the reporter was present is entirely circumstantial. I'm not saying that these things don't happen, nor that they aren't atrocities. Simply that these images prove neither.

Gimme a break. Any evidence that the reporter was present is entirely circumstantial. I'm not saying that these things don't happen, nor that they aren't atrocities. Simply that these images prove neither.

Any evidence that the reporter was present is entirely circumstantial.

Duh, the original photos (both before the murder and the one taken of the bodies after) contain this credit: AP Photo/Rahmatullah Naikzad. And they've also taken credit for the snuff video of the actual murder taking place. That's what you call circumstantial?

BTW, you don't need to post the same message three times; we got it the first time.

Actual heading for video from AP site:
Afghan Execution: Taliban militants say they have executed alleged prostitutes

Nice tame words: "execution" - makes the women sound like criminals (alleged prostitutes - oh, brother); "militants" - don't call them terrorists (that wouldn't be nice).

I think AP and al Jazeera should merge - it's a match made in ...

Disgusting! There is no other word to describe this act of barbarity. And these are the scumbags that taliban jack and bombardion wish to negotiate with?

From the perspective of a father of 3 daughters, and the brother of 4 sisters, the whole bloody mess turns my stomach!

And where the f@#$ are the hairy legged, birkenstock wearing dykes on this one? Your sisters are getting slaughtered girls, and you sit on your strap-ons and do nothing.

Oh, I forgot, you are too busy filing HRC complaints against evil comedians!

This one picture alone justifies every nickel Canada has spent killing taliban, and justifies the loss of every Canadian soldier in Afghanistan.

VOTE REFORM!
GO ARMY!

Too bad pimps aren't dealt with in similar fashion over here.

Oh, crap, this is sick stuff. WTF??? I can't the women in my life under this "rule".

Sorry. That should read: can't IMAGINE the women in my life under this "rule". pimf

Not first time. Note that the feminists are, and will be, totally silent. They only react on left wing issues, and the treatment of women by Islamonazis is not among them......

Here is the question.

Would the women have been killed if there wasnt a reporter present?

Does he know the murderers and will he squeal?

And yes, major cognitive dissonance when one compares Omar's "you dont care about me" whinge with the cold murder of the women. A mash up showing them side by side would be an effective provactive display (as disgusting as the murders are)

So does this mean that talking to the Taliban will be productive?

If these women actually were prostitutes, I'm guessing the overwhelming majority of Afghan men, Taliban or not, would not be too troubled by their "execution". New "nation building" plan - allow as many Afghan women and boys under 6 to immigrate as may apply. Re-deploy the military budget to perpetual drone monitoring and guided missiles.

If these women actually were prostitutes, I'm guessing the overwhelming majority of Afghan men, Taliban or not, would not be too troubled by their execution. New "nation building" plan - allow as many Afghan women and boys under 6 to immigrate as may apply. Re-deploy the military budget to perpetual drone monitoring and guided missiles.

There may be one benefit for having filmed these women's deaths. We in the west might steel our resolve to eliminate this blight upon humanity called islam.

Evidently I didn't stop the post without the "" around "execution" in time. The "" version is the right one, of course.

Where are all the women's groups in the West on this? Why are they not avocating for the rights of 'sex workers'? The women's movement in the West has been very absent from any discussion on the rights of women in Islamic societies - why is that?

I agree with Jefro on one thing though. You can't take the AP's word for anything.

The key question is would this have happened had the taliban not had media exposure? Was this a show execution for a media show? To my way of thinking AP is an accessory to murder, as had there been no media coverage there may very well have been no murder. What constitutes an accessory to murder?

Western Canadian asks (correctly!), "What constitutes an accessory to murder?"

Lets just do a little cognitive juxtaposition and see what flops out.

Two black women are photographed and videoed by a white AP photographer at their "execution" (lynching) for "prostitution" (hanging out with white boys) by the Ku Klux Klan in God's Wrath, Georgia. The photographer sells the pics to AP for real money. AP sells the pics to the papers and TV for real BIG money.

So even if the photographer wasn't physically there and the pictures were taken by one of the participants, both Mr. Honkey Photographer and the AP made money from the deaths of the women.

Is there a court in the USA or Canada that wouldn't give itself a collective hernia trying to convict Mr. Photographer AND the AP of -something- in that case?

Is posession of kiddie porn a crime even if you didn't take the picture yourself? How about selling it?

So to me the key questions are,

A) How fast can we kill what's left of the Taliban?

B) Has the AP been charged yet?

Where is the OUTRAGE fom the MSM?
oh ya forgot they are concentrating on getting the little boy lost out of Cuba.

Tower said: "...can't IMAGINE the women in my life under this "rule"."

I can. Most of them would be killing these Taliban creatures by stealth in the night, setting booby traps, suckering them into abushes and generally being much more dangerous than most of the men I know.

Women are like that. Don't ever doubt it.

I was at the eye doctor's office the other day (in Delta BC). In comes someone dressed in black from head to toe with only eyes uncovered!! She (??) sat across from me in the waiting room. My reaction to this? I must confess that I wanted to punch her right in the face and tell her to "smarten up" When I finished with her, I would would want to deal with the "man" in her life. What the hell is he thinking? And why are we bringing people who think like this into our country???

Let's see"AP" The news org that has been caught how many times with faked photos.

Yeah we should trust them alright!

NOT....

It's pretty apparent that Rahmatullah Naikzad was embedded with the Taliban. I doubt he got a phone call to his motel room to run right over. Change the paradigm to 1943 and think of Ernie Pyle embedded with the SS at Auschwitz. Ethical journalism? Are their any hideous news events that in good taste don't require coverage? I think so.

I'll say this, that video ought to be required viewing for every foolish little lefty birdbrain that still thinks all cultures and religions are equal or that it was all-about-oil that sent the US military into Afghanistan.

The truth is we are never going to reform this rotten religion and the culture that supports it. All we can do is to annihilate those that would harm us and move this scourge out of the west and back into the box it spilled out of.

Disgusting. You're right, Kate. This is precisely why we despise the left-wing media. It's also why I despise people like Jack Layton, who would even think to negotiate with Taliban terrorists.

To stop the left wing MSM people have to use the power of the dollar. I used to get the G&M daily for its buisness section, but I got sick of it's left wing bias, so I stopped. I also have a Globe Investor account and while I like this, I will in all likelyhood cancel at the end of my subsctription in protest of their scewing the news. This is the only way to change them. Bitching about what they print will not change them as they see that people are reading what they publish. So the only way is hit them in the pocket book.

For my money .... I'd like to see this clown rounded up by our troops and his sorry ass waterboarded till he coughs up the contact info for every last scumbag he knows !

I found the caption under the first photo telling.

The women were "chatting" with each other prior to their execution?????

Yeah - I am sure they were talking about the weather and what their plans were for summer vacation. Is that supposed to "normalize" everything.

The fact the Canadian MSM reports on all Kahdr, all the time while choosing NOT to report this is disgusting; albeit typical....sigh.

Any word on when Avi Lewis and all those other former CBC staffers will be making the jump from Al Jazeera to AP?

mike in ontario - it's not just cancelling newspaper subscriptions, clicking on MSM web sites garners numbers they can use to negotiate with advertisers. It's why I refuse to directly click onto the NYT's site. I'll follow a link from a blog to them, but, I refuse to allow the the creeps to count me in their web subscription numbers.

The lefty MSM is impervious to criticism. They really don't give a damn because it's about ideology not profit to them. Any other industry in as bad a shape would be surveying customers, seriouly trying to build a better product, but, not these fools. Never does content ever get cited by them as THE problem. Fools.

Pictures that show the Taliban killing fellow Afghani citizens reinforces the need to eradicate their blight from the face of the planet.

Jahangir Razmi, a pulitzer prize winning photographer, risked everything to show the brutality of the Ayatollah:

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB116499510215538266-w6oLtTyb6LO2glORvqxTV1PwiTM_20061211.html

The Taliban and their radical Islamic ilk are rabid monsters. The more the world sees the evil they do, the quicker they'll be sent to hell.

mike in onterio

yuppers, I cancelled my Red Star subscription a long time ago

also quit reading the "bible bangin" T O sun for a while

I now read the sun again as they seem to have put the bible aside!!!!!

Some serious hypocrisy going on here; on the one hand much wrath at AP and their Taliban-insider for taking and publishing these pics and video, and on the other hand an equal amount of disgust at Canadian MSM for NOT publishing this stuff.
Personally, I think these pics reinforce the West's case against sticking it out in Afghanistan.
Any time the NDP get on their hobby horse, this needs to be rubbed in their face.
Rahmatullah Naikzad should be given a big 'Thankyou' for handing us this moral ammunition. It may not have been their intent, but it'll certainly be the result. The deaths of the women were inevitable whether they were photographed or not, as are those of the innocents slaughtered in any one of the Islamic pogroms currently (past present and future) taking place.

Sheila T, yes circumstantial. Check your dictionary. At the time of my post I wasn't aware of a video but did you watch it? It shows nothing more really than the before and after photos do. My apologies about the multiple posts.

Precisely my point, Dustoff. It strikes me that the people who are so quick to critique the AP and point out inconsistencies, fake photos, doctoring, etc are the somehow the same ones who jump all over this sort of thing and assume it to have happened exactly as it's described and shown!

Jeffro, is it illegal to possess kiddie porn? Even if you didn't take the picture yourself?

Why is that, do you suppose?

Might that rule extend to possessing and selling pictures of a murder while protecting the source of same?

I wasn't aware of a video but did you watch it? It shows nothing more really than the before and after photos do.

It was taken at night during the actual execution. It's not what it shows or doesn't show. It's the audio that accompanies it - the gunshots and their screams as they're being executed.

It strikes me that the people who are so quick to critique the AP and point out inconsistencies, fake photos, doctoring, etc are the somehow the same ones who jump all over this sort of thing and assume it to have happened exactly as it's described and shown!

Jeffro - want to take a stab for us at an alternative explanation as to what "happened exactly" in those photos? Are you for real! Two pretty commonplace rural women executed as "prostitutes" and you are suggesting that some other missing detail would mitigate the obvious savagery!! We are talking about the Taliban, aren't we?

Any evidence that the reporter was present is entirely circumstantial

The AP stringer credited his name to the photos which makes it less than circumstantial. It's sort of like a signature on a document. A quick question, is AP denying its authenticity?

Get real. Better not to open your mouth than confirm you are a fool.

I wish I could say I'm appalled and horrified but I'm not, this happens on a daily basis in Islamic Countries. Globally women are beaten to death for being immoral, and the world and MSM remains silent. Hundreds of thousands of women in Darfur raped or gang raped and the MSM and the left remain silent. I've come to the conclusion that women, and little girls are desposable beings in the persuit of a Socialist/Islamic Utopia.

In Europe women are being raped at record numbers by Muslim Immigrants and the response by the government and police is to hide the stats and figures. Racial and Religious harmany is more important than the saftey and well being of women.

At least these women won't have to suffer living as a Wahhabi Muslim Female anymore, I'd rather be dead than forced to live under Wahhabi Islam.

Persoanlly I wish I could arm every single Muslim woman on this planet, the next time one of those filthy stinky pigs came to attack a female she'd have the ability to kill the filth where it stood. If the females of Darfur were armed I don't think the Arab Janjaweed would of survived one attack let alone hundreds.

I was at the eye doctor's office the other day (in Delta BC). In comes someone dressed in black from head to toe with only eyes uncovered!! She (??) sat across from me in the waiting room. My reaction to this? I must confess that I wanted to punch her right in the face and tell her to "smarten up"
Sheila at July 16, 2008 10:23 AM

I'd have pointed at her and laughed.
Then I would have asked her, "How long is the Circus in town for?"

Actually I wouldn't.
I pity these women because they don't usually speak Canadian and probably don't know they don't have to put up with living in a bag.

Unless we give them refugee status, including relocation and a new identity to protect them from relatives, and boot the "man" out of the country, there is no hope for them.

How soon we forget about the Korean Missionaries that were executed, In the Media's eyes casualties of war.
Thats what a mission of Peace does for you.

Muslim garb is no more of a threat than swastikas or Che Guevara T's. Those of you ridiculing Muslim female garb are cowards,ridicule the men who hold these women in slavery and the religion that they aspire to; but not the women. The women are real honest to goodness victims; unlike so many of the faux-victim classes manufactured by Western elites. Muslim women have no say in the matter ... none; and many Western Muslim women risk their lives simply if they complain. Imagine their chances in Afghanistan.

If you attack, go after the ideology that binds them; and the scumbags that hold them enslaved, including the leftist elites in the West who offer Islamic purists nothing but soothing tones.

If you love liberty, then fight the Burka in the open market place of ideas, but don't forget that there is a slave under that blue sheet.

DaninVan: "Some serious hypocrisy going on here..."

I don't see it as hipocrisy. FYI, I agree with everything else you say in your comment. It's infinitely better for the terrible evils inherent to radical Islam to be exposed to the world in every way possible to push back the creeping Sharia forces that continually use our western democratic system against us while freely and brutally terrorizing people with violence.

However, it's the intentions of the AP that are suspect. The AP takes and sells everything given to them by Islamic radicals at face value - no risk taking (i.e. real journalism) invested to get to the deeper truths. There's much more story to these murdered women than we'll ever hear because once the AP got its' blood-money shots, they were already moving onto finding another "shock-bite" long before the bodies of those murder women turned cold. By not digging out and reporting the real story the AP is dishonest to claim that these photos have anything to do with journalism. The AP is a trash organization and deserve to be despised by those that respect truth.

I do concur that ultimately these photos and others like these will continue to justify keeping Canada in a combat role...and may eventually persuade others like the germans to join the fight. If the AP and other MSM organizations were actually doing actual journalism on radical Islam there would be no wiggle room for our moonbat leftoid politicos and the effort to rid the world of this menace would be much more overwhelming. Who knows, maybe these women would still be alive and the Taliban devils too busy running from zipping 45 cal's to do much murdering.

DEAR CANADA: If you enjoyed the photos, and you wish to see more, that's easy. VOTE LIBERAL!!!

DEAR CANADA: If you enjoyed the photos, and you wish to see more, that's easy. VOTE LIBERAL!!!

Pity Jack Laydown wasn't there. He would have negotiated their survival, guarantee it.

>"The women are real honest to goodness victims; unlike so many of the faux-victim classes manufactured by Western elites."
Paul at July 16, 2008 2:33 PM

I have personally seen woman who were born and raised in Canada and the U.S. who have voluntarily married Muslim men and are NOT victims.

Momma Kadhr knows how to play the Canadian system like a violin and is clearly NOT a victim.

Nazis and Cuban revolutionaries are no longer a viable threat.
Islam and all of it's trappings is an existential threat NOW, not yesterday.

Having Muslim women walking around Calgary dressed in black bags normalizes something that should be denormalized and discredited.

Paul, you wrote "If you love liberty, then fight the Burka in the open market place of ideas, but don't forget that there is a slave under that blue sheet"

I guess then the Khadr women are the exception, they obviously adore their position in life, hating the non-muslim society they live in, collecting welfare and sit around spewing their hateful nonsense. Yup, real benefit to our society.

Martin B; perhaps "hypocrisy" wasn't really the right word, would you settle for "a disconnect"?
Whatever the photographers original intent, I'd call it a serious propaganda blow TO the Taliban, and, if it can be vigorously circulated, a kick in the crotch to the Khadr clan.
"This is the cause my son was(is) fighting for!" *bogglement*...
Such nice people.

The point of killing the women is to intimidate the Afghanis, so yes, with or without the pics they were doomed. The pics won't even be seen by the majority of illiterate rural inhabitants, and certainly the captions would be unread and unneccesary; the pictures speak for themselves.

Canuckguy, OZ: You can't judge an entire group of women by Kadr momma no more than you can judge all conservatives by one or two people. My general point was, that the vast majority of Muslim women have no choice doing as they do. They must in most cases leave family and friends behind if they want to Westernize. In most Muslim states they face much worse. The pressure on them is far greater than most can imagine, not to mention that ever since birth they've been subjected to the dehumanizing brainwashing of The Prophet.

If they open their mouth and speak out, as does momma Kadr, then engage them in the open market place of ideas ... but their clothing has nothing to do with it. Attacking their Burka, is cowardly.

Are the two victims of the Taliban murder in the AP snuff piece guilty of being nothing but Muslim shmags then? ... they were, after all, covered.

The Phantom, you make a good point. I hadn't considered that.

Penny, I am not "suggesting that some other missing detail would mitigate the obvious savagery." Let's consider what we have here. A 'before' picture of two women clad in blue. We have an 'after' shot of what appears to be two women clad in blue that are dead. We have a video that shows little and is accompanied with audio of gunshots and screams. If in fact the reporter was present for this murder or knows the identity of the murderers, or was/is in a position to do something about this murder, then surely the critiques leveled against him/her and the AP are warranted. Personally, I need more evidence than is currently available.

DaninVan, well said. There's more hear than meets the eye.

Oops. I meant Martin B, well said. Though DaninVan makes a good point too.

"Are the two victims of the Taliban murder in the AP snuff piece guilty of being nothing but Muslim shmags then? ... they were, after all, covered."
Paul at July 16, 2008 3:36 PM

I wasn't critical of foreign burka clad Muslimas.
I even stated @ 2:00 PM:
"I pity these women because they don't usually speak Canadian and probably don't know they don't have to put up with living in a bag."

I still think that wearing "the Bag" in Canada should be denormalized and discredited.
Why?

Because otherwise Canadian women wearing "the Bag" are going to end up at the business end of a pistol like those poor women this thread is about.

Count on it.

Oz: The Burka doesn't need to be denormalized; it already is. They stand out like complete freaks among all the skirts and shorts and bluejeans.

What has not been denormalized is Islamic doctrine. Canadian elites and media refuse to attack that, they'r too busy going after Hitler/Harper to bother about little things like barbarian beliefs.

I say, attack Islamic foundantional doctrine because it is the ideology that threatens us all ... the Burka is just an artifact, and besides, the vast majority of Islamic killers are men, and they dress in Abercrombie & Fitch.

I used Google to confirm the fact that Canada has a few very good snipers in Afghanistan. My memory brought me back to the war years in England. Most of the men around the council houses were WW1 veterans. Nobody wanted to here any stories from them.

A man was said to be a sniper in that war. Someone darkly said, when I mentioned Mr Thacker, a former sniper. "The troops 'ated their own snipers". So the legend lives on. Honest fighting men and others decrying snipers. I suppose they thought it was a cricket match.

Says I to the Canadian snipers.

Go for it!

Well Paul, women wearing "the Bag" need to remain thought of as "complete freaks" here in the West in order that they don't eventually end up as the Afghani women above did.

If "the Bag" is an artifact, it isn't "merely" an artifact until it stops being a contemporary artifact and becomes an historic artifact.

Oz: It's like attacking NDP orange or Che Guevara T's instead of the foundational ideology. Sink the ideology, and Burka's will diminish to a rarity ... which they are anyway.

DaninVan:"would you settle for "a disconnect""

I'm more for "different issues connected by circumstance". The AP is a lazy disingenuous heartless leftnut agenda driven den of yellow striped nitwits. How they pursued and presented this double murder to the public shows the AP's lack of professional mettle.

However, the act of publishing anything that shows brutal naked truth, in spite of the treacherous source and the indifference of the publisher, is always worth it. With the AP, such things, particuliarly when involving radical Islam, seem to happen more by accident than by design.

Paul, I have to side with Oz. In all abusive relationships there is an abuser and an enabler. These women who allow themselves to be treated this way are no better than the beaten wife who refuses to leave her "loving" husband or the wife whose allows her child to be abused by her "loving" husband.

Paul, I did state: "I guess then the Khadr women are the exception" realizing they are not the majority of Muslim women but I believe they are certainly a sizable minority.

And yes, the 'bag' is a symbol and sign of a repressive culture,(it probably predated Islam) but symbols can be powerful and should be dealt with and when necessary, not tolerated. Society can be too tolerant. Sure, deal with the deep rooted cultural medival beliefs but on all fronts. Do not accept the 'bag', Sharia, and the violent behaviour of those Muslims who take screaming fits over the supposed slights.

I recall that women attending the Christian churches in my youth(way back) were expected to wear some sort of head covering whether they be scarfs or stylish hats. Things evolved since then. Islam is regressing or at the very least not evolving to a more civilized liberal society(BTW 'liberal' is not a bad word in this context)

AS for your comment "... as does momma Kadr, then engage them in the open market place of ideas...". In momma's case, her mind is a rusty steel trap, she would be proud if any of her sons became a suicide bomber. You can't engage twisted minds like that.

Gus, Oz: Your ignorance is stunning ... just plain stunning. These women are raised in a fanaticle system from birth; they don't for the most part have the psychological capacity to just walk away, especially when in a foreign country. They have no support system to speak of, unlike normally abused women ... and it's hard enough for "local" women to do so. Normally, abused women only have one male adult to worry about ... in the Muslim case, they have their entire community and all they've ever known set against them.

Now consider this. The vast majority of women in North America who are murdered, are killed by X husbands or boyfriends ... and they are killed "AFTER" they leave the relationship. There is little protection for indiginious women who likely know the system way better and have supports. Imagine what it's like for a Muslim immigrant. She's got no chance.

Once again ... use your brains to defeat the ideology ... don't go after mere symbols.

Paul, your comments are most astute and reasonable and I agree with you that ridiculing the pathetic burqa wearer is pointless. I can't get past though the burqa that's voluntary as a religious expression not so different from some old nuns that won't move to street clothes and the burqa that's an involuntarily imposed symbol of male submission on a female that has no choice in the matter. How do we do justice to the later in secular western societies? That's no small issue. What if instead of burqas cloth handcuffs were the symbolic outerwear imposed on Muslim women, how tolerant would we westerners be then?

I'm conflicted as to whether burqas should have a place in our society. Ataturk banned them. The Shah of Iran tried to ban them. It's more than the west that has tried to grapple with this very arbitrary symbol.

I think that the question that needs to be asked of burqa clad Muslim women immigrating to the west, granted most answers won't be reliable, is: "is it YOUR choice to wear a burqa"? If the answer is "no" it seems to me that we simply can not add such an undemocratic entity to our culture unless we are prepared to fix it for her.

Of course, the West's feminist are dead silent on that problem.

Paul, your comments are most astute and reasonable and I agree with you that ridiculing the pathetic burqa wearer is pointless. I can't get past though the burqa that's voluntary as a religious expression not so different from some old nuns that won't move to street clothes and the burqa that's an involuntarily imposed symbol of male submission on a female that has no choice in the matter. How do we do justice to the later in secular western societies? That's no small issue. What if instead of burqas cloth handcuffs were the symbolic outerwear imposed on Muslim women, how tolerant would we westerners be then?

I'm conflicted as to whether burqas should have a place in our society. Ataturk banned them. The Shah of Iran tried to ban them. It's more than the west that has tried to grapple with this very arbitrary symbol.

I think that the question that needs to be asked of burqa clad Muslim women immigrating to the west, granted most answers won't be reliable, is: "is it YOUR choice to wear a burqa"? If the answer is "no" it seems to me that we simply can not add such an undemocratic entity to our culture unless we are prepared to fix it for her.

Of course, the West's feminists are dead silent on that problem.

Don't go freakin' on the Muslims my pea-brained friends. Your Christian brothers on the right are not far behind:

http://www.wholesomewear.com/page-3.html

Oddly enough... the Muslims do swimwear better:

http://www.ahiida.com.au/

Seriously though... you guys don't quite understand how reporting works do you? And you have no idea how these events transpired, or how these photographers felt, or whether or not they were able to do anything.

The whole point of journalism is to interfere. They do so not through direct action, but by bringing the events to the attention of the world.

We in the West can look at these photos and try to come to some sort of understanding what is going on. If journalists were calling in airstrikes, we wouldn't get this sort of access, and also wouldn't know what's happening on the other side.

"Momma Kadhr knows how to play the Canadian system like a violin and is clearly NOT a victim."

OZ: You miss the point! Momma Kadhr can behave like this BECAUSE she is in Canada and free from political and/or religous retribution. I am sure she would behave completely the opposite in an Islamic country.

Penny: Your point is well taken. I can understand why powers have often banned the Burka or even hijab. It is indeed a sign of oppression and hyper-chauvinism. There also tends to be a direct correlation between Muslim purism, and hijab wear ... the more hijab, the more fundamentalist the local Muslim population.

It's my contention though, that by banning burka's etc., the movement simply moves underground. There are millions of brutally oppressed women in the west who wear T-shirts, skirts, and shorts. They look completely normal outwardly, yet may be slaves to a brutal husband or even family ... or worse yet, organized crime syndicate. Banning the burka for socio/political reasons wouldn't change a thing for Muslim women; after all, some of the most "progressive", wear the hijab.

I read recently an interesting fact, from a Canadian Islamic organization. (If I can find the link, I'll provide it) They claimed that fully half of all Muslim immigrants to North America either become secular or are converted to Christianity. If that's the case ... then our system is working. I won't get worried unless our government allows massive Muslim immigration, whereby they can form enclaves and begin to create their own Islamic mini-states ... like in the EU.

I suppose this is not an issue discussed by our friends the Saudi inter-religious tolerance forum this week -- eh!

I suppose this is not an issue discussed by our friends the Saudi's at their inter-religious tolerance forum this week -- eh!

Quote: The whole point of journalism is to interfere. They do so not through direct action, but by bringing the events to the attention of the world.

We in the West can look at these photos and try to come to some sort of understanding what is going on. If journalists were calling in airstrikes, we wouldn't get this sort of access, and also wouldn't know what's happening on the other side.

Posted by: John at July 16, 2008 7:40 PM

Only a coward does nothing whilst women are being murdered in the name of Islam. Sorta like the feminazis and the leftards in Canada John, they do nothing whilst women get raped and murdered in the name of Islam.

In my small town a woman was thrown down a flight of stairs beaten by her Muslim husband and then dragged up the stairs and thrown down again in front of her two sons. She had been in Canada two years and had not been allowed to leave the house in those two years. Her offense, her mother died and she wanted to go home to Saudi Arabia to the funeral, hubby thought she was acting un-Islamic. He told the judge she deserved it because she looked at another MAN, how? She was a prisoner in her own home for two years? This is happening in Canada and the leftards say nothing, the Burka is the sign of radical Islam. They shove their beliefs down our throats, whilst filing complaints at the various HRC across Canada. Welcome to Wahhabi Islam, a cult who has no equal rival for evil against women.

Yet I'm Islamophobic, and they can treat woman like property in Canada legally under the guise of "Religion". Yet a Christian or a Catholic can't recite the bible lest it offend a advocate of Homosexuality.

Welcome to Canada, radical Islam has a place in society but Conservatives, Catholics and others aren't allowed to speak lest we offend those that hate woman.

How many Muslim Women in Canada are living under Wahhabi Islam Law? We'll never no, the left don't give a rat's ass about Muslim Women only Feminazis.

Where are the feminists?

As we all know they are too busy collecting public money and supporting socialist parties to speak up for Arab women. There is a conflict of interest; coincidentally union reps, black activists, environmentalists, publicly funded TV stations and many others are against our role in the ME.

Two tier feminism is what our professional advocates support, equal rights for some, but not for N.American aboriginals or Arab women here or abroad.

"Where are the feminists?"

Yes indeed and well put. I might add this. They have chilled the very innards of much of the CBC male front men . And then there is Bob; he of the bare backside.

Oh, just a little defence of these men- think Judy Rebick.

John: "If journalists were calling in airstrikes"

Then Osama and his murderous henchmen would have no place to hide. Also people would actually trust them and buy their news.

Remember Johnny Maudlin? Well, he probably doesn't either, but he did write this just last week:

"young Afghani men are being killed for the crime of repelling a foreign invasion of their nation. And we, right here in Canada, are party to the slaughter."

I posted a comment with the link to the Taliban's most recent atrocity. He hasn't yet posted it. Probably too busy to. Yeah, that's it...

Reading some of the AP photo history it looks like these two woman were being forced to prostitutes to raise money for the Taliban. If so they were set up for this.
People, there are more hookers killed in Detroit Michigan in a year than the Taliban will ever manage to knock off.
mild exaggeration on my part I suppose

Taliban:
I still maintain they need a healthy dose of extermination.

I still maintain they need a healthy dose of extermination.

Yeah Man!