According to the Garth Dictionary, "greedy" means "reluctant to hand over all of their money to central Canada".

Hostile? in EDMONTON? Is he out of his mind? Edmonton is the only island of Marxist bootlicks in Alberta.

"self-aggrandizing, hostile, me-first, greedy, macho, selfish and balkanizing separatist losers"

that's so unfair! There was nothing "macho" about separatists...the rest pretty much fits.
Seriously, apparently the liberals have decided to get elected by openly run one part of the county against the other, instead of by stealth. I encourage you to talk up western separatism, but I doubt anybody around here will notice until the pumps dry up.

morgan swift :

You will know when where gone when you see the American wheather map has a funny bump on the top.
Ontario & other regions of course as usual will not be on the said map.

So, distilled down, Garth says Albertans are losers.

Good move Garth, is that official Liberal Party policy ?

Off topic;

I just heard a radio spot from the BC Liberals trying to sell Campbell's carbon tax, in which it is stated that global warming is causing "firestorms in our forests".

Firestorms in our forests? Sounds as alarmist as "Soldiers with guns in our streets, in Canada".

Who got the contract for these advertisements? How much is this costing the taxpayers?

My bet is too much

Perhaps he should also slather himself with barbecue sauce and stand ready near a hot grill... just to speed up the process of Albertans' reaction.

Can someone link Rutherford 's bit on Garth ! today ?

Bill D it's here at 11am, http://www.am770chqr.com/StationShared/AudioVault.aspxll

So we are just a bunch of selfish greedy losers just like the people of Quebec; this according to the rantings of Garth Turner. Well I hope that the people of Quebec and also Alberta remember these comments in the next election. And, to the people of Haltern please remove this fool from parliament he has been nothing but an embarassment to the Conservative and Liberal parties.

Has no one picked up on the fact that Dijon is having his little talk in Edmonton? Preaching to the choir?

Now if Dijon tried this in Calgary, the home of BIG BAD OIL, then I might have some respect for him.

Seeing as how Alberta already has an abundance of tar, I'm sure somebody could find some feathers to give both Garth and Stephane an appropriate send-off when they leave the province.

Thank you Hunter , I wonder if he'll post it ........

Every tine a Liberal speaks, an Alberta separatist is born.

Keep up the good work Garth!

And here I thought all of Paul Martin's people were pushed out. Apparently the "Alberta can blow me" mentality is still there.

It would be nice to see Stef hang Garth out to dry on this one as well. Would prove Garth belongs only in the Garth party and might show Stef has some testosterone in him.

My bet, Dion makes his own gaffe trying to explain himself again and again. Will he be going to Ft McMurray to speak? THAT would be something

"...self-aggrandizing, hostile, me-first, greedy, macho, selfish and balkanizing separatist losers..."

In other words, anyone who doesn't believe what's good for Toronto is good for Canada.

There looks to be some pretty good CPC election advertising copy in that thar' blog of the Garthster.

Dion will be ignored in Calgary, who's got time for this Joker.

Unless you pay to see him bob , you won't . As far as I know the functions he's attending are Liberal ( fund raising ) events .

Party on Garth!
The gift that keeps ON giving.

"...self-aggrandizing, hostile, me-first, greedy, macho, selfish, and balkanizing..."

Yep, that's Garth Turner all right.

After reading the comments here over the paste few days, I am now totally convinced:

Within 10 years of western independence, you people will be flying planes into skyscrapers.

Garth is just another mentally ill liberal

the Harper conservatives deserve credit for recognizing that Garth is nuts and kicking him out of the party

"Within 10 years of western independence, you people will be flying planes into skyscrapers."

Another prime example of Leftist Mental Disorder.

Another Liberal from Quebec wants to force the transfer of revenue from the west to the eastern population. The 'NEP II'
If the Lib's were really serious about their plan, gasoline would have been included. Including all fuels would actually impact the real cause of carbon, which is the use of an automobile. Oil sands and the balance fuel/energy production industry exist to supply the consumer with the products for transportation needs, both directly and indirectly. As the Lib's plan effectively shuts down some marginal production (and maybe even some not so marginal production) which in turn will cause an substantial increases in the cost of fuel and everything we buy impacted by fuel (groceries, heat/cooling, transportation) what is going to happen to all those manufacturing jobs in Ontario where they build cars? Fuel will cost more in Canada under this Liberal plan, because Canada will produce less of it. If Mr. Dion gets elected as PM by central Canada and begins to bring the Green Shaft into law, the West will move to protect its interests, with a new set of financial dealings with the balance of Canada. That could mean a number of things. Our offer to Canada will be one time, decisive, and quick. That is how we do business.
Canada is now at a point where Ontario/Quebec will actually need the west more than the west needs them. And we have the financial resources, people, skill sets, professional class to develop and operate our own economy and parliamentary system. Our biggest issue will be where to place the capital of the New West, not whether we want enter into a new arrangement with the balance of Canada.
Do not mess with the West this time. BC, Alberta and Saskatchewan are in no mood for a new NEP, or the Green Shaft, which has to do more with a shift of Green (cash), then anything to do with the environment.

Yeah, that booting of Garth from the CPC seems more and more visionary each day. I wonder just how long the Liberals can keep going with the likes of Garth and Orchard trying to drag them down from within.

Vous êtes des racistes sans culture qui sont jaloux parce que vous ne pouvez même plus faire la différence entre ce qui vient de vous et ce qui vient des États-Unis. Vous êtes tellement déconnectés de ce que vous êtes que vous vous identifiez aux Tim Horton et aux Canadian Tire parce que vous n'avez pas de culture. Vous nous jalousez, bande d'ignorants et d'obscurantistes.

Townhall meeting?...I'd thought telephone booths were non-existant.

You give that academic weenie too much credit: his trying to preach his green shaft only shows that he is too stupid to get out of the lion's den. Geesh!

There is some crow pie being served at Garths ! Click on the link to get a piece ....... it's yummy !

Delicious crow, I must say Bill D. Cat...LOLOL

Looks good on him. This one will stick!!!

Read this link, you will be shocked to say the least.

WE CANNOT ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN.

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/canada_net_censorship.html

Again, this h/t is truly unreal.

Can you update the link Kate ?

Just a little suggestion for you folks out west... when Dion comes to town, get all green carbony and turn off the A/C in the hall.

G-Mail has two (2) amazing scoops up. However, no comments allowed.
...-

1. "Mr. Turner, 59, was a Conservative(sic) when he was first elected to the Commons in 1988."

2. "He [Turner] was re-elected as a Liberal(sic) in 2006."
http://tinyurl.com/5kv9je

Belz, il n y a pas une culture si vous devez le proteger avec reglements comme les lois langue.

Vous etes un bigot et fasciste.

Translation: go f**k yourself, you bigotted fascist. Pardon my french.

There should be a SDA fork for these occasions ........ he's done .

Stephan Dion called and chewed me out ....... more terrifying words have never been spoken .......fare well Garth , we hardly knew ya .

Belz @6.51.

Tu as tort, Belz. Tu as totalement malcompris les gens d'ici, et de l'ouest.

C'est pas racist de demander, au gouvernement, de lesser libre l'argent qu'on a gagne; de ne pas voler l'argent qu'on a gagne, et repasser cet argent parmis leurs amis.

Huh? Comprenez-vous anglais, monsieur Belz? It wasn't anybody here who insulted Quebec. It was Garth. And it's the insecure masses of the GTA who define themselves by a belligerent attachment to anything emblazoned with a red maple leaf in the absence of anything more culturally substantial, not the conservative and western denizens of this blog.

You know you are toast when your name becomes a verb, as in, his political career was progressing nicely until he mysteriously and spectacularly Garthed himself on national television...

With reference to Belz, his comments are common in Quebec, where they view the 'ROC' as 'without a distinct culture' or as identical to the US.

They ignore the fact that Quebec's 'identity' isn't specific to Quebec but to francophones around the world. Quebec aligns itself culturally and ideologically to all francophone nations. It isn't distinct in itself but is merged with all other French-speaking nations.

As a francophone identity, Quebec sets itself up as different from the anglophone identity, and Quebec merges all English-speaking nations into one. Quebecers view the world through the biased prism of language. You are either francophone, which means you are OK'd to live. Or, you are not and are 'Other' and irrelevant.

And you are quite right, shamrock; it's hardly a robust 'culture' if you have to censor and forbid any expressions that are not in French.

Didn't steffi stand up to the separtists by stealing Harper's clarity plan?

ET, you state that in Quebec, any expressions that are not in French are censored and forbidden. Would you actually have any proof of that? Anything verifiable? I know for a fact that this is not true, so I was just curious to see what you consider valid sources, being the Quebec academic and all that.

Official possition of the liberal Perty of Canada -
Qubecers are "...self-aggrandizing, hostile, me-first, greedy, macho, selfish and balkanizing separatist losers..."

Anyone willing to bet that this isn't a put-up job? Dion tells Garth to make an outrageous anti-Western remark, so that Dion can ride in like a white knight and give him a big smack-down.

Just like the smack-down that the Obaminator laid upon Wesley Clark after the latter made unfair remarks about John McCain.

Seems to me that the "Green Shift" plan may be a Liberal codeword for shifting all those (remember the green logo) Reform supporters right out of Confederation. And if Dion succeeds in alienating the West that hard with NEP II, his home province is going to have a hey-wait-a-minute moment at someone else exercising the Clarity Act first. And all this flaring up when we're the most united we've ever been, with separatist movements withering away under the Harper government. We've got to re-elect the Conservatives for the sake of national unity (among other good reasons).

ET: What a spectacularly ill-informed post. Let me take it apart bit by bit, as a Montreal-born Anglo, who despite living in Ontario for the last 40 years, still has a cottage in rural Quebec which I visit regularly.

First off, Quebec culture is incredibly distinct from other French cultures. The actual French look at the Quebecois with disdain, and with the exception of Belgium, all the other full members of La Francophonie are either Asian, African, or Caribbean former colonies, all of whom have vastly different cultures from either France or Quebec. Quebecois taste in literature, music, TV and film is a blend of US and home grown productions, plus a few French imports.

Let's take food as another example. I post on a food blog frequently, and two questions that have come up recently are "What food represents your city?" and "What is your national cuisine?". People from Toronto couldn't come up with anything (I suggested an apple fritter and a double-double, but I was shouted down) better than a hot dog from a street cart. People from western Canada couldn't do much better. I'm sure there are great perogies in Winnipeg, but I think tens of millions of Poles and Slavs would dispute any claim to them. But people from Montreal? They had an embarrassment of riches: Steamies, poutine, smoked meat, tourtiere, tarte au sucre, Montreal bagels, etc. (and that's not including maple products). There's a culture you can sink your teeth into!

Same thing when they discussed Canadian food. Lots of choices from Quebec, very few from the rest of the country and what was suggested was intensely regional - Newfie screech and seal pie, Maritime fiddleheads, Alberta beef, BC salmon, etc. Ontario was conspicuous by its absence. Now, I love living in Toronto for the incredible variety of cuisines that are available, but everything has been imported from elsewhere, and there are people who define Toronto's food scene as "the best (chinese/italian/greek/viet/caribbean) food outside of (China/Italy/Greece, etc.)".

And the Quebecois do have a point; after all, how many times have we had the debate "what defines Canada?", and how many times have we come up empty other than a wide range of mild to virulent "well, we're not like Americans"? I don't think this was as much a problem when I was kid, when the British influence on Canadian culture was still strong. However, thanks to Trudeau's program of destroying most links to Britain and importing millions of people with no allegiance to anything except possibly free health care and some government cheques, the decline in Canadian identity outside Quebec is palpable.

I have to admit, I feel it myself. I'm still proud to be a Canadian, but day by day, I'm wondering what that means. My father was a Navy man, and I was raised to be proud of the RCN (and our merchant marine) and their role in keeping Britain alive from 1939 to 1941. Today, with the disdain shown for the job our brave men and women are doing in Afghanistan, it makes me wonder. I used to believe we were a society that believes in freedom and the right to express yourself, but with election gag laws, "hate crime", and the odious HRC's, it makes me wonder. I used to believe that we were a country that believed in law and order, but with our soft sentences, "criminal as victim" mentality, and the continued support of a party that stole our money to finance their own re-election, it makes me wonder. Finally, I used to believe that we were a country that valued human life, but when we award our highest honour to a baby butcher, it makes me wonder.

Recently in Toronto, the remnants of the United Church met to examine their "mission". I was raised in the UC in the 60's, and they have flip-flopped on every key value since then. No wonder their flock is deserting in (aptly) droves.

Canada has the same problem. The "elites" have tossed out all the old values, replaced them with the empty vacuum of moral relativism, and fostered a mentality of "Where's my cheque?". (In an incredibly serendipitous moment, South Park is right now playing an episode where Canada goes on strike. In a broadcast to US schools, the Canadian spokesman asked "What is Canada known for?" and Cartman replied "Gayness" to general hilarity.)

In a way, I envy Belz. He knows what his culture is about; do we know what ours is?

ET said: Quebec aligns itself culturally and ideologically to all francophone nations.

Nope, the academic elites in Quebec think this way - the average person just wants to make a living and have all the cool toys that come along with being a citizen of western society.

superb post KevinB...

what is the difference between greedy, selfish and me-first?

Posted by: KevinB at July 5, 2008 12:15 AM

That was a great post, Kevin.

Belz should know that there is no uniformity in US culture as well. Each state in the US exhibits a unique culture. Alaska is widely different from Hawaii, Texas is different from the Pacific Northwest, LA is different from Chicago, New York, and Denver. The southern states have massive hispanic cultural contributions. Which part of America's culture is Belz referring to? The US embraces its diversity and it makes the country stronger as a result.

Great post KevinB. Quebec is not France or Mozambique or any other French nation. It is a uniquely Canadian solution to the French problem. The French are almost constantly worried about how to remain relevant and influential in a world where English and the English heritage is the norm. How to remain relevant an influential in Canada? Just watch them. And maybe that is a bit of what ET was trying to say.,

Regarding the BSS59 solution. If only. I know that I for one would fight a war of secession to preserve the freedoms and self determination that the English heritage is built on. But I fear that there are not enough people in the West who take that sentiment seriously enough to stand up for their rights.

Central Canada is about to find out what it's like to such hind tit economically and they just can't stand it.

We in the West know too well how that feels and we have paid our dues long enough.

Hasn't Garth heard that greed is good. It's what create wealth and provides jobs for the otherwise totally useless members of society, usually tossing and turning at one government desk or another.

And oh ... Dion's plan to take jobs our of the oil patch to create more jobs in universities is beyond stupid.

Garth's Words:

"So, why should I even try to justify my words? My attempt to show the Liberal leader has the stones to face down those who think of themselves first, and the country second – no matter where they hail from......."

Let me explain this to Garth:

YOUR LEADER AND YOUR PARTY ALONG WITH YOURSELF, GARTH are the ones thinking of themselves first.
You are deliberately playing one side of the country against the other for your own self insterests in obtaining power. Then accuse everyone else of being divisive (typical of hypocritical liberals). You could give a rats ass about the future of Western Canadians.......the only thing that matters is that you can destroy their (Western Canadians) future to serve your own self interests of obtaining power.

The Liberals and Garth deserve each other. This only goes to prove how smart Harper is to get rid of something as a useless mouthpiece like Turner. Nothing but a liability..........fortunately now........he is the Liberals.

Hey Garth, Dion and turncoat Goodale.......GO TO HELL

"But don’t expect me to roll."

That was the money quote, no doubt about that. Expect it? We're betting on it and so is half the liberal party.
BTW, as for those who are envying belz because he knows what his culture is, I really can't understand why. It's been a long time since I had any respect for those who base their identiy on some sort of ethnic superiority.

I am going to raise your taxes, make you pay more to drive, heat your home, turn on your lights and flush your toilets. I am going to shut your workplace down, give you a welfare cheque, and we will all be happy. Vote for me I am liberal.

What do you suppose the chances of any liberal getting voted in anywhere?

Mind you Ontario is stupid, but not that stupid.

I am going to raise your taxes, make you pay more to drive, heat your home, turn on your lights and flush your toilets. I am going to shut your workplace down, give you a welfare cheque, and we will all be happy. Vote for me I am liberal.

What do you suppose the chances of any liberal getting voted in anywhere?

Mind you Ontario is stupid, but not that stupid.

So, let's get this straight, Garth Turncoat is implying that he and his Leader, Steffi, are concerned for the Country over their party and themselves? It's even beyond a contradiction/oxymoron, it's pure bullshit.

To say a Liberal gives a rat's ass about anything beyond power would fly on par with Garth's lust for attention and delusions of grandeur.

The very fact that Garth is toadying around after the garbling Dion to sell his snake oil is a testament of how bankrupt the Liberal party really is. Is Garth fluent in French?

Kate- you work late Time for some sleep.

I never thought I would live to see the day that a Liberal would say something truly nasty about Quebec.

It would be a real shame if the Liberals lost all their seats in Alberta over this.

Belz is welcome to his superior culture. Poutine is a magnificent and his sense of self inflicted superiority is so inspiring.

Reminds me of Steffi telling me I need to support his morally superior carbon tax.

I guess this means we won't have Belz migrating West any time soon.

Now that's a relief. Our gene pool will be protected.

It would be a shame if the Liberals lost all their Alberta seats over this.

Got on Rutherford when he was dealing with this and taking calls (post a rather flat MP Laurie Hawn interview)http://www.am770chqr.com/StationShared/AudioVault.aspxll @ 11:24

My key point was the big political "what if": - if this SD/LP strategy of divide and conquer Canada and pillage the west strategy works - if the Lp wins a minority or, god-forbid, a majority by playing the screw Alberta (and now SK) card - what will be the political fall-out?

IMO it will be apocalyptic for the CDN confederation.

Stephen Harper will be quickly ousted from the leadership of the CP and replaced by a non-Albertan leader (I have had several discussions with people in Ont and Que over the last couple of years and my anecdotal evidence is that a very large percentage of central CDNS think that SH is an Albertan PM - a PM who doesn't represent them. This, I'm pretty sure, is what LP polling is revealing as well and they are trying to exploit it. It is worth noting that this reveals a lot about the political psyche of central CDNs when they think a PM puts the priorities of the region they come from well ahead of the ROC. Obviously that is what they want a PM to do and it is why they want a central CDN PM. The words "selfish" and "greedy" seem applicable. I digress - a lot).

The fallout from that would be the disintegration of the the CP if it does not vehemently protest and defeat the green graft legislation (which I do not think it will do) and thus it would cease to be a political force. This leaves the West politically disenfranchised yet again.

It seems highly unlikely that the west will yet again form a western-based national party a la the Reform party. I think the desire to remove itself from the decaying eastern half of confederation will be almost all-consuming by that point.

I hope that the great Western leaders such as Manning, Harper and Day will rise to take the initiative (just as Manning and Harper did in creating Reform) and coalesce this desire into a legitimate and effective political force that will facilitate the birth of a new nation using responsible and well-reasoned methods (the western way).

But I hope even more that the central CDN voters come to their senses and kick the LP to the political curb over this, however I am pessimistic that they will.

Excellent post Kevin.As a french canadian or I should say a canadian of french descent,I know that many many others think along the same lines.Prime Minister Harper said it best in Quebec City this weeek."french settlers arrived 400 years ago and the french language[and culture ]is still thriving 400 years later."My point is quite simply that you can be a proud french canadian without being labelled a separatist.And when I say many others share this opinion,Prime Minister Harper has recognized that fact and the Quebec support he gains will guarantee a conservative majority in the next election.In my final analysis,what Quebec wants is exactly what Alberta wants and what Saskatchewan wants and what Newfoundland wants.....more autonomy to manage their own affairs and a strong federal government to ensure key portfolios are properly administered for all canadians such as Defense....Taxation....Health...and Education.The rest is all fluff and as long as Liberals are flaming the fires of separation,they will milk that for all it's worth...It's what they do best

Belz is welcome to his superior culture. Poutine is a magnificent and his sense of self inflicted superiority is so inspiring.

Reminds me of Steffi telling me I need to support his morally superior carbon tax.

I guess this means we won't have Belz migrating West any time soon.

Now that's a relief. Our gene pool will be protected.

...I think ET was making a general statement, no need to jump all over him.

KevinB, what part of Montreal? My wife is from Rosemount and her parents still live in DDO.

She went to Rosemount and Riverdale high. They just had a reunion (rosemountconnect.com and riverdaleconnect.com).

One thing all the people said was how sad the deterioration of the school was due to lack of funding, being an Anglophone school.

Someone was riding ET for proof. Signage. Can't have English only signs, and if so, must be lesser font size then the French one.

Quebec is definitely distinct. Been to France and obviously been to parts of Quebec/NB and they are different like Britain is to Canada.

One sad thing is all my Quebec buddies think it is best for them to separate. They are brainwashed, even my ex-military buddies.

I say, let them go. Totally, have their own money, forces, and festivals.

Within five years they'd turn into little Jamaica, as in poor nation.

But they'd be free, and so would we.

This is good news: http://www.ottawasun.com/News/National/2008/07/05/6071776-sun.html "Tied up over issues - Dion's much-touted 'green shift' fails to win over supporters, poll finds"

However, I wonder what the regional breakdown is...

kevin b- I'll agree and disagree with you; I've lived many years in Quebec, both city and rural, and have some experiences to fall back on besides my own innate ignorance. I'll stand by my point that most Quebecers view the world as divided into francophones and anglophones...and align themselves only with the former.

I certainly agree, the 'actual French' view Quebec and its almost impossible to understand Quebecois with great disdain. But Quebecers align themselves with other people by language; that's their basic 'cultural identity'. That sets them apart from 'les anglos' who are all lumped together in an indifferent mass, which they view primarily as American.

With regard to food, you come up with a list of Quebec's 'identities' that are as regional as those of any other area in Canada. Or the US. Smoked meat (started by a non-francophone by the way) is as regional as Boston Clam Chowder.

If you are seriously suggesting that a people's cultural identity requires having a specific food, then you are ignoring where and how that food emerged. Toronto, as an immigrant hub, can hardly have a distinct food. So?

As for the lack of a distinct Canadian identity - I completely agree with you. Trudeau destroyed our ability to develop that - and an identity doesn't emerge fully formed from the soil; it takes years of history to develop. But Trudeau destroyed that both with his bilingualism and his multiculturalism.

Bilingualism is a fiction; Canada is not bilingual. What that did, however, was to set up a governing system with bilingualism, who are primarily francophones, in power. The rest of the population was reduced to passiveness; they couldn't express themselves because they had no power as non-bilinguals.

Multiculturalism has been devastating, for the hub of immigration has been into Ontario; and it has balkanized the population. Multiculturalism prevents any Canadian identity from developing, for it asserts that differences MUST be retained; that Canadians must define themselves not as Canadians but by their country of origin, by their 'ethnicity', by their religion, and as such, must retain these differences. Right there, you destroy any capacity to develop a national identity.

The Liberals fund these isolate blocs and assist them to retain their differences. This sets up adversarial competing blocs fighting for funding.

However, Quebec selects its own immigrants and a first criterion is that they speak French. That reduces differentiation right away. BUT, Quebec and immigration don't get along. The ratio of immigrants into Quebec cities is the lowest of the provinces; you can check out Canada's immigrant stats for that.

Almost 95% of Quebec's immigrants live in only one city-Montreal, and they are not viewed with esteem. They are not part of the 'pure Quebecois' and aren't accepted as such. So, Quebec doesn't have that multicultural destruction that the ROC does.

A great part of Quebec's identity is its differentiation. Now, identity can be experienced both as 'This'..and as 'Not This'. In Quebec, there's a lot of identification going in this second category, ie, We Are Not This'. It's easy to describe yourself in the Not This category. Because you can say: we aren't linguistically English; we aren't individualists, we aren't greedy entrepreneurs, we..etc.

What abour teaching our history? The anglophone teaching of Canadian identity is disgraceful; it's all about 'multiculturalism' rather than the devt of a shared history. Quebec's school history books, however, focus on Quebec and a common Quebec identity. I assure you, they make for interesting reading.

I fully agree that Canada does not have a national identity. The Liberals telling us that we are 'tolerant', 'peacekeepers' and so on, is garbage. We don't have an identity because those same Liberals set us up to prevent one from developing. It's an easier population to manipulate for votes if you slide-and-dice them into adversarial groups. That's what developed with the immigration boom after WWII. And we can see Dion's slice and dice strategy in his Green Shaft, where he's taking the money from the West to bribe votes in the East.

And as you point out, the HRCs are yet another tactic to silence debate, dissent and any voiced rejection of this balkanizing multiculturalism.

The result is that we don't have a Canadian identity and fighting against a strategy that considers that it's easier to manipulate the population to vote in a certain way..by balkanizing them into blocs of country of origin, ethnicity, religion..and language...Well, that's hard to fight against.

And this is the purpose of dion's visit to AB:

http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/454764

"Dion in the lion's den"

"Hats off to Stéphane Dion, as he doffs his Stetson at the Calgary Stampede this weekend, for entering the lion's den with a sheaf of volatile carbon tax proposals in his saddlebag."

Political red meat for the 'screw the west - vote liberal' strategy.

Garth Turner is part of the strategy not a rogue IMO.

Tomax7, signage is not proof as it's acceptable to have English only signs, and not necessarily with a lesser font size. Not seeing them says more about corporate attitudes not to put them up than the law that governs such rules. BTW, I'm within walking distance of Riverdale, and you'll have to do better than blame lack of funding because it's an Anglo school. It receives the same funding per capita than any French public high school. It's not a victim of anything or anyone.

Although there's a lot of truth in what KevinB says in his post which is a rebutt to ET's post...ET also has a lot of truth in his too.

Take it from a french Canadian born in Quebec now living in Ontario.

As for the ROC having little identifiable culture and being compared to Americans...What's wrong with that? I prefer that to being compared to England or France or any European country. At least America still has balls and the last time I've checked: The last true beacon of freedom and Liberty and the most powerful Nation on Earth. I much prefer having Washington South of us than Moscow or Hong Kong, thank you very much! It does not bother me to be a "more polite and shy American". That's how most Europeans see Canadians anyway: An extention of the US. That's all we are anymore. Thank's in large part to Trudeau and the Liberal doctrines since the 70's. Weaken your Defense and you weaken your stance in the world. Of course being buddies with people like Castro does not help either.

Most Quebecers also like Americans and their culture but just like many Anglo Canucks they will be silent about it or simply deny it. (Our beloved inferiority complex which ALL CANADIANS can culturally identify with!).
Quebecers flock in Florida and Old Orchard beach Maine where they have their own communities.

Their #1 movies are translated American films.

Quebecois are just like Vermont style Americans (Like many BC'ers) except they speak French and many of them (The Bloc supporters) still think they are Canada's cash cow...LMAO...I'm not kidding! Quebec was somewhat Canada's cash cow (Lumber, Mining) in the 1940's and 50's, then Ontario took over in the late 60's with their Auto industry now it's the West with their natural resources.

Vive le Canada!
Vive le Quebec!
Vive les USA!

The numbers are against the West, and that is not about to change any time soon. Control in one form or another remains in the east, get used to it. Until the West or quebec leaves confederation we will never achieve our full potential, never.

Think about how much further ahead Western Canada would be had the YES side won the referendum. Countless billions saved on bilingualism and transfer payments alone. What the hell has quebec added to this Country other than discontent, aggravation and turmoil.. Park your emotions and put your brain into reality mode and things get a lot clearer. quebec leaving is to the West’s advantage, and the sooner the better. Support the Parti Québécois.

Where is this climate change/global warming/climate crisis/ end of water... by the way. Only a liberal is stupid enough to believe this scam, and only a Toronto voter is moronic enough to vote for the purveyors of this bulls..t.

Garth Turner referring to someone else as "self aggrandizing" is the very definition of irony.

This limp dick Turner sure censors his blog or else the Ontario voters who use it are stupider than I have thought for 50 years. The comments on there make one realize there should be a test in order to vote, I despise the thought that my vote is cancelled out by these nose pickin. sister humpin LOSERS from his area.

ET: Sorry, I apologize if I seemed harsh. It was late, eh?

Just a few things about your rebuttal:

"If you are seriously suggesting that a people's cultural identity requires having a specific food"

I'm not saying it's a requirement; that's cart before the horse. I'm saying when people do have a cultural identity, it always manifests itself through food. When I tour any of Toronto's different ethnic neighbourhoods, it's not the clothing or furniture shops that distinguish them; it's the restaurants and cafes. A recent book is titled "Food is Culture"; I'll stand by that.

You and I agree about the horrors of multi-culti, but I don't put all the blame on Trudeau for that. Joe Who? was the first to spout this nonsense, eschewing a Canadian identity for his nebulous "community of communities". The vulpine Liberals saw this as a more marketable strategy than "bi-bi", and exploited it better than the naive Tories.

And finally, I agree with you on the completely disgraceful way Canadian history is taught. My older daughter just finished elementary school. She's in the gifted program, was accepted into an exclusive science and technology program for high school, and was the only kid in her class that objected to the lies in Al Gore's propaganda piece when it was shown to her class. I think she's pretty smart. But she doesn't know who Radisson and Grosselier were, or for that matter, Marquette, Joliet, Hudson, Frobisher, Mackenzie or any of the explorers other than Cabot, Cartier, and Champlain. She's heard of the Red Baron, but she doesn't know who Bishop, Barker, or Collishaw are. She knows something of D-Day, but nothing of Vimy, Dieppe, or the Scheldt. She was not taught how this country was built, or by whom.

A few months ago, I read that some teenage Muslim girl in Toronto told a reporter "Canada's not a real country anyway." I wanted to punch her in the face then (truth be told, I still do), but on reflection, it's hard to blame her for feeling that way when our schools do nothing to foster a sense of Canada as anything more than a medley of (in Kate's apt phrase) "pavilions at the folk fest".

Such a rich discussion; so many things to comment on:

- good to see Garth Turner and Stephane Dion want the debate to be civil. As I understand it, Turner has, sort of, retracted his remarks about the separatists, but not in the context they are like greedy westerners.

- Garth Turner has become the mouthpiece for the Green $haft, simply because nobody else wants it, and he has that rare combination of egotism, arrogance and stupidity that makes him think he can pull it off. As usual, Turner's judgement is suspect.

- ET, IMO, HRCs (how about that for acronyms!) and recent Order of Canada award to Morgentaler are a symptom of something else - the left/progressive/anti-USA/socialist crowd is no longer in power, so their actions are a last gasp effort at retaining some influence, and poking a stick in the eye of the "neocons."

- It is indeed ironic that separatists feel they must have their own country to defend their culture. IMO, the only chance to assure their culture, besides their own efforts which should be all that's required, is within a Canada, with its bilingualism, guaranteed markets and equalization. Belz is right, Mr Harper did say that Quebecers are a nation; but, within a UNITED Canada. I think Mr Harper was implying that the Quebec "nation" would have trouble surviving outside Canada.

- There is no doubt Quebec is a distinct society, but that distinctiveness would surely wither away if she were a small part of a sea of English, with the funding and markets (dairy for example) cut off. Separatists would have Quebecers believe that equalization and favoured markets would continue after their nationhood; they couldn't be more mistaken.

-It really bothers me to hear that Canadian history is not being taught, except in some revisionist fantasy setting. Our history is rich and vibrant, and incredibly interesting and we should be very proud of what we built as Canadian immigrants. That's why people came, and come, here (with notable exceptions of course, still not disproving the rule).

-I really don't care who invented Montreal smoked meat; it's delicious (remember the Hugh Segal line that he never inhaled marijuana, just smoked meat).

- I think I went a bit overboard in my criticism of Belz; that is until I read his blogging at the Garth. I'm quite sick of the ethnocentric pure laine nonsense. I know that's not what Quebecers want; yes they are a more organic (even homogenous) society than ROC, but they are also fiercely private enterprise and have supported free trade.

- I think Stephane Dion is in for a really rough ride if he actually commiserates with the public, rather than staged Liberals-only-attend rallies. Garth Turner has done everyone a favour by exposing the soft undercurrent of Western bigotry in the LPC. (no he was not "re-elected as a Liberal," what shoddy journalism).

- It amazes me that Dion would make such obvious errors in judgement with his gouge and spend policy. He doesn't tax consumption but production instead, and aims most of the spending at Central Canada. What a cynical attempt to vote buy, and it won't work.

Anyway, rant over, it's off the work world I go. Remember, get yourself floored by hardwood.

Garth Turner referring to someone else as "self aggrandizing" is the very definition of irony.

Irony? I would say "insanity".

"I'm saying when people do have a cultural identity, it always manifests itself through food."

Kraft Dinner.

It's a happy day for me whenever Garth Turner opens his big mouth in his never-ending attempts to insert his foot.

What really bothers me is the manner with which the story is being reported in the media today. Not a word about Garth or the LPC insulting Albertans by comparing them to Quebec separatists in insulting terms. Oh, no! The hand-wringing and weeping in the media is based on (as usual) the sensitivities of Quebec, Quebec, Quebec.

KevinB: "In a way, I envy Belz. He knows what his culture is about; do we know what ours is?"

ET: "I fully agree that Canada does not have a national identity"

My entire life, all 61 years of it, I never understood these statements. I've never had an identity crisis as to who, or what I was. I have always been, simply, a Canadian, a product of this land we call Canada (and no different than anyone anywhere who identifies themselves by what country they're from). I had a decent and respectful upbringing and education of what Canada was made of, both physically and anthropologically.

From a very young age, I understood that the province of Quebec and its "frenchness" was "Canada" and I feel a sense of belonging about that.

I understood that the vastness of the prairie and its various settlers, old and new, was "Canada" and I feel a sense of belonging about that.

I understood the majesty of the Canadian Rockies and have always been in awe of those who count themselves lucky to live in that part of Canada, and I feel a sense of belonging about that, too.

I understood and have a deep sentiment for the fragile nobility of life in the Arctic and the peoples who have adapted to live there, and I feel a sense of belonging about that as well.

I understood the quiet dignity of a sometimes hard life in the Maritimes, embodied as it has always been with a down-to-earth sense of community and family, and I feel a sense of belonging about that too.

I have always felt a sense of citizenship in the Nation of Canada. I've never had a particular allegiance to any one province even though I have lived my whole life in one (but travelled in most). I have relatives from sea to sea, and I've always felt I've had compatriots from sea to sea as well.

And I've always resented the foreigner (regardless of their own nationalism, including Brits, especially), newly arrived, or long-time immigrant, who would constantly proclaim "I had no identity". Certainly, my identity is "not French", "not English", "not Italian, German, Swiss, Dutch, Iranian, Saudi, Guyanese or any identity clung to by the many who have come. There is no hyphen in my national soul.

From the time I was old enough to walk and talk, I have been nothing else but Canadian.

A great many of the settled immigrants in the GTA have never been out of it, except to fly back home, or visit relatives in the states. I brook no criticism of my national "identity" from someone who's never even left the province, and I would say to any Canadian, go and see this magnificent country and meet and greet the Canadians that make it up. You simply have no idea what it means to be a Canadian until you have done that.

I find it ironic that we can talk about "Americans" as if they all look the same and come from the same place, and yet Canadians insist on hyphenating their origins. I don't see that as a respect for ancestry, I see it as a repudiation of who you are and where you live.

No, I don't get those kind of comments at all.

What Skip said.

I am just trying to imagine what it sounds like to be "chewed out" by S Dion on the phone.

Just can't quite imagine it. If it was emotional I dont know how you would understand him and if he understood him I cant imagine it sounding particularly harsh.

One way or another I am sure it was humourous.

Garth may yet be the first Green MP in Canada

Skip is the embodiment of a life-long Ontarian. Alone among their countrymen Ontarians think of themselves as Canadians first.
Canadians have a strong national identity, it's just been subsumed by misguided multiculturalism which forgets that Canadian culture, mores and freedoms are the base to which all other identities are added. Meaning that when Canadian ideals are diametrically opposed by an outside influence it is the Canadian ideals that remain.
Given our 141 year history and the longer history of those countries with which we most closely identify, the whole point of Canada is that it is not one of those places, as Canadians long ago abandoned those places to built this place.

http://www.garth.ca/weblog/2008/07/03/yahoo-2/

my suggestion for prime minster is that he needs to reduce some weight since he become prime minster not economic increase except his weight

at least Mr. Dion look slimer I do not like his french accent he needs to take some english course to able to speak English fluent
when French Canadina are talking I feel we are hearing some one outside of Canada are talking Enlgish

I do not belive both know what they are talking about but liek to know to correct direction
and like to learn what they are talking about
Dion more talkitive man in comparison with
Prime minster
harper need to hire Ezra Levant his old freind to talk for him since Ezra talk so much too

if police like to ban drug for ever
need first know where they grow the drugs
suchs as Newmarket all famrer should see those police dogs and airport and border and police report about druges more camera and distribution adn ship and all ship for crouse tourist

all jail phone to outside get checked

for some reason drugs is so much among these group:
first native Indian Canadain are in drugs alot
next are black community young people in Canda are in druge
mexican and spanish are in druges
and finally white Canadian look like unemployeed
check the welfare toevery body apply for welfar do the blood check too
check police and army and rcmp and fbi they may have employee help drugs are spread
check the druge company as well
, more villigi simple white men nd woman with no education even by look of their coulr we can find out who is in druge becaue black tehri colour face is not clear but white people with druge usage are so clear who is in druges
all mental hospital
all celbrity and music and sport club

ban this Medona add more husband for herself
all those celbirity you call we call more to line of adultry in differnet level are spreading druge and alchole

watch rich for druge more than poor for usage of drugs
wtach very poor for distribution of duges

probably more young police below 8 years are help drug dealer as newmarket two police were has work for police for 8 years
police with more time are not involve with druge and old cop also is not trusy for investigation of druge
court need smarter trained crown andpolice to caught the druges

before prime minster need to loose some weight and very quiet may look not know well of subjects and commmuniate with Muslim and made food for Muslim welcom and Mr. Dion learn how to speak Engish with no french accetn make sense englsh can trust him or understand what these two ar talking about

i always thought men adn woman who are not talk are not smart men and woman later notice the English culture are very quiet

power how to talk nice is ablity not every body can have it still I do not like or trust people who are not talk so much are so many in Canada but in back gossip so much

French are look kind and see big people English are look polite smart see the detail picture people

No doubt about it. . .

Garth happens to be correct this time.

You don*t see USA citizens carping about who gets what natural resources. They understand patriotism and we better learn it too!

Albertans, Quebecers and Newfoundlanders who talk separatism are just as petulant and selfish as is North Korea when they use bad nuclear behavior to get special attention and more foreign aid.

Guess we are not mature enough to share the toys in the playpen without pouting yet..

Too bad. = TG

When the subject of Dion attempting to sell his cash grab disguised as a carbon tax in Alberta comes up, I have flashbacks to the old westerns. You know, the ones where a skinny, dwebish tendfoot ends up hopping around in the streets of Dodge City while the cowhands fire their six guns at the general area of his feet. The only difference is that I can't imagine Garth Turner as Gary Cooper riding to the rescue. In fact the Garthinator would probably end up doing the ole soft shoe besides his sponsor.

When the subject of Dion attempting to sell his cash grab disguised as a carbon tax in Alberta comes up, I have flashbacks to the old westerns. You know, the ones where a skinny, dwebish tendfoot ends up hopping around in the streets of Dodge City while the cowhands fire their six guns at the general area of his feet. The only difference is that I can't imagine Garth Turner as Gary Cooper riding to the rescue. In fact the Garthinator would probably end up doing the ole soft shoe besides his sponsor.

When the subject of Dion attempting to sell his cash grab disguised as a carbon tax in Alberta comes up, I have flashbacks to the old westerns. You know, the ones where a skinny, dwebish tendfoot ends up hopping around in the streets of Dodge City while the cowhands fire their six guns at the general area of his feet. The only difference is that I can't imagine Garth Turner as Gary Cooper riding to the rescue. In fact the Garthinator would probably end up doing the ole soft shoe besides his sponsor.

Sorry about the double post.

Dion will never be P.M so why the yipping about ontario amd quebec. just to help his image with them so they think we are the barbarion's attacking them. My rellies down there have no idea. what I'm talking about because the msm has played it down to the east.

TG

I must take exception with your assessment of the current situation. Speaking as a transplanted flat lander who has spent most of his life in Alberta I have found Albertans to be generous to a fault. Unfortunately in some quarters kindness is mistaken for stupidity.

Support for such things as The United Way consistently rises. Albertans may grumble about the tax dollars we send to Ottawa that seem to get spent on social programs we do not agree with but we continue to cough up.

Your attitude, those held by many central Canadians and of course our Liberal friends seems to view Albertans as backwards children in some colonial outpost who really need to be taken out behind the woodshed.

I can't tell you the number of times I've heard the tired old "they won the mineral lottery" gambit as if the oil flows from the ground with little more prompting than a round or two from Uncle Jed's 12 gauge.

Of course we have the likes of Liberal strategist Kieth Davey who famously uttered, "screw the west we'll take the rest", or Borat Dion's more recent "izzy money" proclamation. Other noted central Canadian Liberal thinkers like Turner and Mark Holland have ventured west to lecture us on the crapulence of our ways. I for one am flicking sick of it.

I spent a good portion of my life busting a gut on the rigs to the tune of a double hernia, two broken fingers, and one blind eye to provide for me and mine. In those years I contributed personal income tax in the 20-50k range consistently. For what? To be derided and shat upon by some candyass intellectual priss who "knows" how things should be, to watch while the farmer bob gun registry sucked up 2 billion and counting so some latte sipping socialist asswipe can pretend to do something about gun crime? All the while being chastised for not being a good Canadian?

Even the kindest and most sharing of folk have a limit and many of us out west have reached ours.

I'm not sure where you live but I would be willing to bet it is in one of our more progressive metropolis'.

I suggest you get out of the city for a while because the massive cloud of smug that emanates from the rotten cores of Liberal thought is the real threat to the unity of this country.

My girlfriend is an American who lives in Phoenix and has family and friends who live in northern Ontario and Toronto.

When we started our relationship online some six years ago her friends from the big smoke were aghast. How could an intelligent, beautiful, successful, independent women lower herself to the level of Alberta oilfield trash? Of course they formed these opinions without meeting or even conversing with me. Do you get my point?

Cynthia made a wonderful observation at the time. She said we are not so much a country as a collection of people who really don't like each other much. I think she's right.

Syncro

p.s. Hypothetical here TG. How do you think Quebec or Manitoba would react if a hydro-electric tax was implemented to benefit say Alberta?

p.s.s. Hey TG, when you ponder the hypothetical please disregard the screw job Quebec slipped the Newfies over the whole James Bay project. So much water through the turbines so to speak.

Syncro

Garth Turner proves his vast ignorance once again.

He obviously doesn't know that Alberta and Quebec are diametrically opposite.

While Alberta has shared about $200 billion in transfers to Ottawa since the early 1970s, the slackards of Quebec have squandered about $200 billion of Ottawa transfers going around and around in their wacko little French cultural cul de sac.

Generous Alberta works.

No pride Quebec parties with other peoples money.

What a pathetic legacy the Crooked Liberal Party du Canada and Pierre Trudeau left Quebec.

rockyt

If I may...."What a pathetic legacy the Crooked Liberal Party Du Canada and Trudeau/Cretin/Martin left us all".

For shame.

Syncro

The greatest difficulty I see with Canada is the myriad of petty tyrannies that pass as political wisdom in this vast country we inhabit. Ontario knows far better how to sell wheat than Saskatchewan and so the prairies can’t sell their own legal product! Quebec and Ontario know much better than Alberta the real price of oil and the NEP results. A few urbanized intellectual featherweights determine that societal norms shall be thus and Canada winds up with abortion on demand and gay marriage. Canada has always been a nation without vision or reason for being except of course to tell other people how best to run their lives.

This time Dion and lickspittles don’t push it cause you’re gonna lose!

TG:

In the US the states get to keep ALL of their resource revenues. BIG difference. If texas had to make equalization payments to Washington how long do you think the Union would last?

What is Quebec culture all about anyways -- FOOD!!!? There is sooo much mythmaking and propaganda making to convince Canadians that Quebeckers are so much more superiour - bitch please.
I am a proud Canadian and I know that Quebec culture, Newfoundland culture and all the provinces cultures including Canada's culture are all very young cultures compared to other countries in the world such as Greece, Italy and India etc. I always laugh when Quebeckers expect someone coming from a truly rich cultural history like India and Greece be expected to "respect" Quebec culture. Odd that this same level of respect is not reciprocated to other cultures coming into Quebec yet immigrants are supposed to respect Quebec without this same respect given to their culture and customs. Hypocrisy at its finest.
My culture in Canada includes respect for immigrants and freedom of linguistic expression of which modern day Quebec has much to learn from Canada.

Culture eh ... it's not just about food. And don't let the propagandists fool you that Quebec is sooo culturally advanced and Canada has no culture. They are into this 'Quebec is superiour' mythmaking which I see them trying to do all over the internet. Quebec is still a very young culture so is Newfoundland and so is Canada in the whole scheme of things.
Quebec has much to learn from Canada on how to treat immigrants. I live in Montreal and my neighbours attitude here towards Muslims is disgusting and racist. A much more tolerant Quebec towards other "cultures" is a start before we discuss "culture" and some people's holier than thou attitude.

darkly davis, in my opinion, immigrstion is NOT a two way street. If you leave your native country (and they always sound like the best country in the world, so why the hell did you leave?), your country of adoption owes you very little and you owe it respect and loyalty. But I also understand that for most immigrants today, you couldn't be loyal to your own country so I understand if you can't be to your country of adoption. In any case, it's not a crime to make a mistake, so if you can't live with the way things are where you are, maybe you didn't pick the right country of adoption. Adios then.

maple stump:

In my opinion immigration IS a 2 way street. Here's why.

Who else but mostly immigrants will do the many jobs Canadians are too proud to do?
Canada needs immigrants for economic prosperity and growth ... deal with it!

How would Americans and their American economy survive without that oh so abundantly cheap Mexican labour? Businesses just LOVE cheap labour and immigrants entering into this country will not stop anytime soon. Business owners are dependent on immigrants and business lobbyists are demanding more of them from governments. Again cheap labour equals more profits for them.

Quebec and every other Canadian province dependent on cheap imported human labour better damn well kiss immigrants asses cause it'll ensure their economic prosperity.

Canada needs immigrant labour and if Canada needs 'em we better damn well treat them, their language and their cultures with respect. It's the very least we can do. And it's the decent and right thing to do. Isn't that what makes our Canadian country sooo superior to all those other countries these immigrants come from - that we treat people with respect, better through our equality laws and all? If not then Canada is just as bad as some of the countries they come from.

Also if Quebec doesn't respect and show loyalty to Canada, immigrants then ask themselves "Hey why should I respect and be loyal to Quebec in return anyways." Immigrants come here wanting to be CANADIANS and getting a CANADIAN passport. Quebec can't force immigrants to respect their language and culture, it must be a mutual affair born of respect and admiration both ways first. You can't force people to respect you and your language and this is what some in Quebec don't understand. You can't legislate respect. Unless you're communist China maybe.
Respect is a 2 way street. Better get used to it & quick!

http://rjjago.wordpress.com/2008/07/01/canada-day/

Prime minster video

Synchro,

Albertans are generous and all those good things you said they were.

Few are separatists. I said separatists, not Albertans.

Gord Tulk,

Wealthier US states do contribute to the barren states like North Dakota. Texans are generous and would never stoop to selfish bellyaching.

Those I met while living in Corpus Christie could care less about wealth going to Washington and then on to other states in need. = TG

PS:

No GTA *Smug* here, on ocean clear central Vancouver Island.

Even our provincial *Liberal* government is really conservative. A true surprise to most in the rest of Canada. = TG

No, I don't get those kind of comments at all. Posted by: Skip at July 5, 2008 12:57 PM

Really good stuff Skip.

If I may add this to the discussion around culture and Quebec. What Quebec has that the rest of Canada doesn't have is a population that is pretty much all of one origin, French. I know that the immigrants have come to Montreal in great numbers, but at least Quebec protects itself from being watered down too quickly by protecting it's language.

I used to think that was chauvinistic and narrow, but not anymore. Quebecers have a culture and it's around their language for the most part. They also have a joix de vive ("love of life" forgive the spelling) that sets them apart. They love to be social and free.

They are more likely to rent an apartment than to buy a house so they can spend more time and money having fun rather than mowing the lawn and doing a kitchen reno.

The women are more likely to be better groomed, dress a bit more fashionable and be more sexy and friendly than women in the Rest of Canada. I have lived and worked in a lot of places in Canada and those are some of my observations.

The Rest of Canada would do well to start protecting itself from the newcomers with their less attractive customs, language and religion. You know who I am talking about.

I have also lived and worked in the USA and they are a wonderful people who happen to also have slimy politicians just like we do. However the people are more patriotic, self reliant, friendly and generous. We could learn from them too.

Albertans and Ontarioites are a very generou$ bunch. Who else but them have been con$tantly $upporting the federation. Or else all the have not provinces like Quebec would go way down down down in their standard of living.

You don't think that if the situation were reversed and oil was discovered in Quebec like Alberta has now, Quebec would simply skip out on Canada, say Sayonara to Canada and enjoy their riches. Ontario has been giving out way too much in transfer paymenst to keep Quebec rich and satisfied but they may also become a have not province soon.
Quebec is not a giver they are a culture of take, take, take me-me-me first constantly whining about their lot in life. These are the values the separatist politicians teach their peoples. Even the corporations here in Quebec do not have a culture of supporting the arts and sports organizations in Quebec, they always wait for the various levels of gov't to put out more money. No real culture of giving to help out to others.
Quebec would NOT help the rest of Canada the way that Alberta and Ontario have so far delivered mass riches into their Quebec economy.

Garth is right about Quebec separatists being greedy scumbags but he is WAAAAY off calling Albertans such undeserved names. The evidence shows Albertans are not derelict in their duties, but extremely generous Canadians. But like a deadbeat, derelict father, you can be sure Quebec would never give out their riches to Canada should a province ever be in need. The separatists past history tells me so.

Garth Turner and Baird both need to apologize to the good people of Alberta, not appease the separatists. Politicians in this country need to stand up to the truth and not let pandering for votes in Quebec get in the way of honour and justice Mr. Harper. Baird and Garth Turner need to apologize to the Alberta people for this undeserved criticism when history shows they have paid up ALOT of money. Money which Quebec would NEVER give out. The criticism towards the Quebec separatists IS much deserved but Stephen Harper pandering for votes in Quebec will never admit to this and instead panders to Quebec. You all should keep up to date on how much money Stephen Harper is pumping into the various Quebec festivals and otehr projects to again pander for votes above and beyond what the Quebec population needs. Keep pumping that money in Quebec pandering for those Quebec votes Stephen Harper and Baird keep pandering. Pandering is what conservatives do best.

The truth is a bitch in Canada with spineless politicians always bending over backwards for a Quebec that takes and takes but never gives to Canada. Responsibility is a word that is never expected from Quebec politicians towards Canada, just a constant free pass.
They are a selfish culture let's be frank and truthful. Stop pandering and worrying about votes in Quebec Stephen Harper don't be a spineless politician.

The United States would never put up with such constant abusive behaviour from one of their states like the petty crap Quebec constantly pulls here.

Interesting discussions here:
http://communities.canada.com/MONTREALGAZETTE/forums/thread/201940.aspx
For more reading on this subject check out the Gazette forums

If Dion wants to impose a Carbon tax impose a tax on Hydro Quebec electricity as well so ALL of Canada will benefit from Quebec as well. Oh yeah won't happen cause Dion wants their greedy hands on Alberta's oil money and Stephen Harper will dare not upset Quebeckers by asking them to do their part for Canada.

Spineless Canadian politicians both Conservatives and Liberals makes me wish for the rough and tough American politicians that would not put up with this pandering bullcrap.

Albertans and Ontarioites are a very generou$ bunch. Who else but them have been con$tantly $upporting the federation. Or else all the have not provinces like Quebec would go way down down down in their standard of living.

You don't think that if the situation were reversed and oil was discovered in Quebec like Alberta has now, Quebec would simply skip out on Canada, say Sayonara to Canada and enjoy their riches. Ontario has been giving out way too much in transfer payments to keep Quebec rich and satisfied but they may also become a have not province soon.
Quebec is not a giver they are a culture of take, take, take me-me-me first constantly whining about their lot in life. These are the values the separatist politicians teach their peoples. Even the corporations here in Quebec do not have a culture of supporting the arts and sports organizations in Quebec, they always wait for the various levels of gov't to put out more money. No real culture of giving to help out to others.
Quebec would NOT help the rest of Canada the way that Alberta and Ontario have so far delivered mass riches into their Quebec economy.

Garth is right about Quebec separatists being greedy scumbags but he is WAAAAY off calling Albertans such undeserved names. The evidence shows Albertans are not derelict in their duties, but extremely generous Canadians. But like a deadbeat, derelict father, you can be sure Quebec would never give out their riches to Canada should a province ever be in need. The separatists past history tells me so.

Garth Turner and Baird both need to apologize to the good people of Alberta, not appease the separatists. Politicians in this country need to stand up to the truth and not let pandering for votes in Quebec get in the way of honour and justice Mr. Harper. Baird and Garth Turner need to apologize to the Alberta people for this undeserved criticism when history shows they have paid up ALOT of money. Money which Quebec would NEVER give out. The criticism towards the Quebec separatists IS much deserved but Stephen Harper pandering for votes in Quebec will never admit to this and instead panders to Quebec. You all should keep up to date on how much money Stephen Harper is pumping into the various Quebec festivals and otehr projects to again pander for votes above and beyond what the Quebec population needs. Keep pumping that money in Quebec pandering for those Quebec votes Stephen Harper and Baird keep pandering. Pandering is what conservatives do best.

The truth is a bitch in Canada with spineless politicians always bending over backwards for a Quebec that takes and takes but never gives to Canada. Responsibility is a word that is never expected from Quebec politicians towards Canada, just a constant free pass.
They are a selfish culture let's be frank and truthful. Stop pandering and worrying about votes in Quebec Stephen Harper don't be a spineless politician.

The United States would never put up with such constant abusive behaviour from one of their states like the petty crap Quebec constantly pulls here.

Interesting discussions here:
http://communities.canada.com/MONTREALGAZETTE/forums/thread/201940.aspx
For more reading on this subject check out the Gazette forums

If Dion wants to impose a Carbon tax impose a tax on Hydro Quebec electricity as well so ALL of Canada will benefit from Quebec as well. Oh yeah won't happen cause Dion wants their greedy hands on Alberta's oil money and Stephen Harper will dare not upset Quebeckers by asking them to do their part for Canada.

Spineless Canadian politicians both Conservatives and Liberals makes me wish for the rough and tough American politicians that would not put up with this pandering bullcrap.

Albertans and Ontarioites are a very generou$ bunch. Who else but them have been con$tantly $upporting the federation. Or else all the have not provinces like Quebec would go way down down down in their standard of living.

You don't think that if the situation were reversed and oil was discovered in Quebec like Alberta has now, Quebec would simply skip out on Canada, say Sayonara to Canada and enjoy their riches. Ontario has been giving out way too much in transfer payments to keep Quebec rich and satisfied but they may also become a have not province soon.
Quebec is not a giver they are a culture of take, take, take me-me-me first constantly whining about their lot in life. These are the values the separatist politicians teach their peoples. Even the corporations here in Quebec do not have a culture of supporting the arts and sports organizations in Quebec, they always wait for the various levels of gov't to put out more money. No real culture of giving to help out to others.
Quebec would NOT help the rest of Canada the way that Alberta and Ontario have so far delivered mass riches into their Quebec economy.

Garth is right about Quebec separatists being greedy scumbags but he is WAAAAY off calling Albertans such undeserved names. The evidence shows Albertans are not derelict in their duties, but extremely generous Canadians. But like a deadbeat, derelict father, you can be sure Quebec would never give out their riches to Canada should a province ever be in need. The separatists past history tells me so.

Garth Turner and Baird both need to apologize to the good people of Alberta, not appease the separatists. Politicians in this country need to stand up to the truth and not let pandering for votes in Quebec get in the way of honour and justice Mr. Harper. Baird and Garth Turner need to apologize to the Alberta people for this undeserved criticism when history shows they have paid up ALOT of money. Money which Quebec would NEVER give out. The criticism towards the Quebec separatists IS much deserved but Stephen Harper pandering for votes in Quebec will never admit to this and instead panders to Quebec. You all should keep up to date on how much money Stephen Harper is pumping into the various Quebec festivals and otehr projects to again pander for votes above and beyond what the Quebec population needs. Keep pumping that money in Quebec pandering for those Quebec votes Stephen Harper and Baird keep pandering. Pandering is what conservatives do best.

The truth is a b*it*ch in Canada with spineless politicians always bending over backwards for a Quebec that takes and takes but never gives to Canada. Responsibility is a word that is never expected from Quebec politicians towards Canada, just a constant free pass.
They are a selfish culture let's be frank and truthful. Stop pandering and worrying about votes in Quebec Stephen Harper don't be a spineless politician.

The United States would never put up with such constant abusive behaviour from one of their states like the pettiness Quebec constantly pulls here.

Interesting discussions here:
http://communities.canada.com/MONTREALGAZETTE/forums/thread/201940.aspx
For more reading on this subject check out the Gazette forums

If Dion wants to impose a Carbon tax impose a tax on Hydro Quebec electricity as well so ALL of Canada will benefit from Quebec as well. Oh yeah won't happen cause Dion wants their greedy hands on Alberta's oil money and Stephen Harper will dare not upset Quebeckers by asking them to do their part for Canada.

Spineless Canadian politicians both Conservatives and Liberals makes me wish for the rough and tough American politicians that would not put up with this pandering.

Yes TG, isn't it amazing what having a bicameral govt with a House of Reps (representing population) and an Elected Effective and Equal Senate (representing physical area) does for the United States.

No bitching from individual states exactly because they have sent elected people to Washington to do their talking in the levels of govt there.

And the 500,000 people from Wyoming have 2 senators which have exactly the same power as the 2 from California with 35 million people.

In this mickey mouse Cdn system of govt we have a H of C dominated by Ontario and Quebec with a PM usually a head case from one of those two prov, who has virtual dictatorial power in a majority govt.

He can impose his bullsh!t head problems upon the West with impunity, while being cheered on by Ontario and Quebec.

And because we have appointed old Liberal party bagman from the West to the Senate, the Liberals call it a legitimate process of govt.

I'll tell you one thing, TG.

There are a lot more Westerners who are far more politically aware than there were in the 1970s/80s.
And more agressive politically.
Just read the blogs.

The 'blow me' Liberals had better watch their step in their lust for power this time.

'Men become what the state in which they live makes them.'

John V:

If Quebec has that "joie de vivre" it is subsidized by the rest of Canada. No way could Quebec be able to afford this socialist paradise without Alberta's and Ontario's help. If Quebeckers truly cared and knew the facts about the money politics in this country you wouldn't romanticize the fake "joie de vivre" and all that other fake stuff. I live in Montreal and the people are not as romantic as you are making them out to be. Maybe you live in a Plateau artists colony but I live in real world Montreal and my friends and family are not into the "joie de vivre" that you speak of. People here need to work to have a good standard of living. and support their children. My friends and family want better for themselves and are prepared to work for it unlike maybe your laggard friends.

Who knows maybe you work for tourism Quebec and are putting this fake romanticized stuff out there to sell Montreal like some slimy salesperson. But Montrealers who live here know better than to romanticize this place. Too many problems here to romanticize this place but nice try buddy!

Every region is Canada is distinct and has great people living there. Pretty women are everywhere in this country if only you open your eyes and truly look.

I'm sure the whites in deep American South also think they have a "distinct culture" that needs protecting. Is this what Quebec aspires to Jim Crow laws. Please.
Enough with your intolerance and stop being racist towards people not like you: French, white and Catholic.

what we hear about french Quebec and Ontario English is mostly both are discriminating each other right

have a group in Quebec choose to speak French
and have relgiion of Catholic in most of them
and keep some diffirent culture
see the big picture and talk more by heart
less patient more emotional friendly people

verses
Ontario English culture

have more protestan
keep the unique culture in Ontario or alberta
are think in detail but talk less use brain
more patient and less communicate and less freindly

in comparision all language, race, ethnic background and originally came from diffent part of world immigrant in Canada

all above said is not give quebec seperation or give English to boss all french people too

country need centrailzie law and this centralize law can include any backgroun religion muslim catholic as long as follow the law to cme and lead the country

if you like quebec seperation in order to not share qubec profit margine with otehr province
or not like to go let use your tax to go to war

or not like anybody only selfish like your own ancestor all sound to me discrimination and bullyness behind it

no profit is come for rest of people out of this arugment rather of fight these two for power and money who is boss let both work under same rules and say how to direct countrywell
more inside civil white color ware cause people not fouce to more important issue and cause more seperation and racis and discrimination increase

having some one speak english or french not give htem big terophy who is good leader and their heart is close to god made them better than other and who has used eudation and in more active consider more right and fairness can be lead country sepertation is too late to
divorce quebec from the rest of Canada
I saw in Ezra levant histoy he like seperaton of qubec from canada I do not l ike jewish put seeds to seperaete catholic from protestan is like sepraton of shia verses sunni cause so much wast tiem and death in middel east

just follow one rules in all contries give some differnet in some province is theylive french or english and let got over it t

this is too late to divorce quebec from Canada
get over it and continue work this out through corrct less agresive less offensive communication off cours french are differne than English in so many thing and Muslim and christian are diffenrtn it dos notmean to have so any provice seperated if ther is not reason forit unless osme one say ground for this seprtaion is what benfit fench wil get unless politician get more power in french qubec not any thing else will gain this is more fight over power and money over each province and competition for spending tax dollar to beneif people there in anyhow

[quote]The United States would never put up with such constant abusive behaviour from one of their states like the petty crap Quebec constantly pulls here.[/quote]

Holly Shit! Have you not heard of CALIFORNIA?. We will have to resort to CC (Chemical Castration) to rid ourselves of those friendly Munchkins.

Antidote in pork...NO! NO!...it's Beef dummy

Saw this comment on Dion in western gear on another blog and had to share about how stupid he looked...."a ten galllon hat on a two gallon head!"

The close bond between Garth and Stephane:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v714/stevekog/?action=view¤t=SDCCST.jpg

**I have also lived and worked in the USA and they are a wonderful people who happen to also have slimy politicians just like we do. However the people are more patriotic, self reliant, friendly and generous. We could learn from them too.**

Posted by: John V at July 6, 2008 12:07 PM
============ JV

john V and I seem to have traveled in the same experience *groove*.

We Canadians better become aware that we are really blessed to live next door to the BEST neighbours any nation could possibly wish for.

You have to feel sorry for the anti-US types, for they live in the darkness of ignorance. = TG

Actually, if Alberta ever enlists their help, a few score well-armed patriots from south of the border could take her.

so you are now droping nasty but accurate comments