[sputtering, spitting faux outrage] But that's DIRTY oil!!!

Good grief, we are sitting on a sea of oil, no foolin'!

You people deserve this windfall if anyone in Canada does, us Albertans have benifitted from our resources and with the help of you stubble-jumpers we have developed them through hard work. There is no izzy money when one is hanging off a monkey board in 30 below with a wind, I would love to see that Mr. Tidy hands professor try it. Thankfully you got rid of the stinking commies hopefully for good, now if we could only rid the federal scene of stinking liberals the country could realize it full potential.

Something is not right here...

Why is Alberta left off the gravy train? I demand a recount!

/

I wish the best for Saskatchewan. While you can still dream. Particularly when people start coming back home to jobs with less socialism. This will be great until you are robbed by Ottawa. For as sure as the winter brining snow, Ontario will arrive with the hucksters of State Nationalism. In other words carpet baggers with official sanction to steal Provincial wealth to bleed East.

Not only do you not need no stinking giant fans, it turns out they're pretty useless too...

Wind Power Fails to live up to hype

I know that they're playing politics of division, the only game they know, but the Liberal braintrust (?) have made a serious miscalculation on this one. They're fighting fire with sticks of dynamite.

Dion is in Stampede city tomorrow to blow his horn on the Green Shaft. I can hardly wait to see the responce. Should be very funny to see him stumble like he did in Sask. last week.

Ate willz bee izzy toz tock toz da gode pipples hov Albertsa. Wit dhare coowbyez hotts ond beefs bergars. Dayz willz onderstonds dats da greenz shiftz, vil bee ah godez ting forz da pipples hov Albertsa az dayz vill bee holpingz da pipplez of alz centralz Conada. Dayz vil hov toz onderstonds dat dayz hov toes mochz moneyz ond dayz nedez to shore itz. Dats on izzy ting forez dem tooz doz I tink.

Cheers

The jury's out: should the people of the province of Saskatchewan control their own natural resources, or should the decisions be made by voters in Liberal ridings?

It's a really tough call, nationally-speaking.

When does the Bakken windfall tax come into effect?

Same time as the Athabasca Oilsands windfall tax?

25 Billion barrels X $150 = Dats not Fare!

The Bakken field looks like a seal.

Does Heather Mills know about this?

Where's me Hakapik too?

Wanna really make 'em howl? Saskatchewan should announce with great fanfare, the construction of a new oil pipeline direct to the US. Have G.W. cut the ribbon on the unveiling. Then you'd really see the left howl.

On a slightly tangential matter:

How many IPCC climate stations are in Britain? How many in Sask.?

What percentage of Britain is covered in roads or buildings? What percentage of Sask.? Does the IPCC correct for urban heat islands?

My suspected answers: Many. Few. Lots. Little. No.

Centre of Canada?

Me thinks our host needs a geography lesson!

Get a huge straw in the ground ASAP and start sucking that stuff up before North Dakota gets at it.

Well done, and thank you for ignoring the political posturing of our fearless leaders concerning the 'cleanliness' of your particular brands of crbon-based fuel.

We will need it eventually, all of us. You might as well get paid for it.

I think I'd take the lease money now, and not wait to see how Nationalization plays out.

Atlanticjim,
I believe the reference is about the NEW center of the country, with Ontario's economy circling the bowl, the West is now IN.
IN CONTROL.

great news for Saskatchewan! Some of the best Canadians come from there.

Is that the correct latitude for England?

a friend who owns a small oil ex. co. is drilling in Manitoba as i type.

Centre of Canada?

Me thinks our host needs a geography lesson!
Posted by: AtlanticJim at July 4, 2008 6:49 AM

With the Eastern boundary of SK being some 330km west of the geographical centre of Canada, methinks it is one hell of a lot closer to the centre of Canada than the fine folks of so-called Cental Canada.

Does that help with your geography AtlanticJim?

tsk tsk, you dream about sticking that giant straw under the border to suck out all that oil from under the American's feet?

GO FOR IT.

Harry Reid won't notice.

Well sober how's about we do a little math here, k?

Distance from St. John's to Regina - 5400 km
Distance from Victoria to Regina - 1800 km

Gotta love that folks in Saskatchewan and Alberta are turning into exactly what they hate about the folks in Ontario.

It is a huge resourse but it is not as simple as sticking a straw in and sucking it out.

http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2008/05/23/f-langton-bakken.html?ref=rss

"The problem is that the oil available in the Bakken, however much there may be, is encased in sheets of non-porous shale. Traditional drilling methods yield little usable oil compared to the expense required to retrieve it."

This:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/03/wind_power_needs_dirty_pricey_gas_backup_report/print.html

should be required reading for everyone who thinks wind generation is useful.

Hey, the first Newfie troll!

Wanna see the Newfie troll come out from under it's "rock"?

Saskatchewan in indisputably the geographic of Canada. Over 2000 scientists agree.

Does the Bakken Play encompass Delisle?

Just wondering.

More:

http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/archives/008653.html

Well i have seen the geographical center of Canada and according to the hwy markers its east of winnipeg. The geographical center of North America is also not too far away, which I've also seen in Rugby, ND.
So, if Manitoba ends up finding as much oil as Sask and AB we will truly be the center of the universe! (unfortunatly we have Gary Doer and his socialist ndp crew running the show)

Hey Jim, Geographic centre is anouy 20km east of Winnipeg. Geographic centre of North America is Rugby ND about 150km south of Brandon MB.

Hers a newsflash that I would have thought any sailor would know. Road miles don't mean a thing when it comes to distance. So when we drive from A - B the road miles are likely longer than the distance between them. ESPECIALLY through the Maritimes, QC and ON. Then again in BC, but not nearly as bad.

So here's an idea AtlanticJim: grow up.

crap, anouny = about

My apologies. Geograhic centre of Canada IS in MB, but will be well north of Winnipeg as well as about 230km east. However the central meridian cairn as placed by the Royal Geographical Society is approximately 20km east of Winnipeg. The "old" prime meridian cairn, placed before Nfld. joined Confederation is located about 5km west of the Headingly MB scale.

Think I'll trust the Geographical Society's measurements over your Google maps distance click Jim.

AtlanticJim, that's not quite an apt comparison.
How 'bout we do some distances from the east-west geographic centre of Canada (it's just east of Winnipeg, but I'll use Winnipeg itself as a proxy, as it's close enough in this case).

From http://www.geobytes.com/CityDistanceTool.htm?loadpage

Regina to Winnipeg: 534 km (as the crow flies)
St. John's to Winnipeg: 3224 km
Toronto to Winnipeg: 1514 km

I think Regina has more of a right to be called "central Canada" than Toronto...

Jeez I hate fat finger disease. "230km east" posted, "20km east" intended to be posted.

The geographical center is appropriately named Landmark, Manitoba

Can anyone tell me who owns the mineral leases in the Bakken play? Since the oil must be extracted from shale, will the developers need regular oil leases or mineral leases? Are we talking open pit mining as in the oilsands?

You should remember that the oilsands projects took a very long time to get rolling. The startup will create a lot of jobs, but royalties will be a few years coming. I'd really like to see an international play, since the deposit straddles the border. That might keep India and China from buying up leases like they've done in the Alberta oilsands.

Jesu Christu!

SK has been sponging off Ontario (and Alberta) since the last ice age and 44 seconds after you become a "have province" you're whining about non-existent conspiracy theories about Ontario stealing all of your money - money not yet even earned I might add.

Perhaps after TAKING so long you're thinking every other place does the same.

Note to SK: You aren't Alberta, you never were. SK is the home of socialism. That has been your biggest export since confederation - even bigger than your grain. In fact, if the rest of the country takes your oil (not that it's going to happen) it would only compensate us for Tommy Douglas and the NDP.

Sober, AtlanticJim, Nicole, you're all completely wrong. Wrong-o. Couldn't be wrong-er.

Everybody knows the exact center of Canada, that point about which all else revolves, is Toronto. The actual pivot point is believed to be a manhole cover in the middle of the intersection at Yonge and Bloor. Sometimes you can see it turning if you look reeeeeal close.

Torontonians also know that the world ends somewhere a little past Oakville on the west and Scarborough on the east. If you're not careful on the QEW past Trafalgar Road you'll drive off the edge of the universe and be lost forever. Hell, you could end up in... Saskatoon even! Or worse, Hamilton!

This article is dated December 2007. Have there been any updates?

I'm glad you said it Warwick. The main reason SK still has reserves is the reluctance of oil companies to invest because of an "unstable" political scene.

Phantom:

"The actual pivot point is believed to be a manhole cover in the middle of the intersection at Yonge and Bloor."

Oh how wrong you are! The centre of Canada is an ugly building on Front Street called "CBC headquarters." At least in its own mind.

Their are secondary hubs in Rosedale and the Annex.

These are places to be avoided at all costs. They are polluted with stupid and you wouldn't want to catch it.

Yes, Ellie there are - if you count new pumpjacks virtually stacked atop one another in the Stoughton-Forget area an "update".

I'll post a few phots after I get home Tuesday.

Bakken is thought to contain 4 billion barrels...not 400 billion.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2032866/posts

Warwick, you are right.

But the political climate has changed in Sk. I believe that the new government here will leave the socialists like the dinosaurs. Bones buried under layers of success and wealth.

"I've placed England (red) in the north central portion of the province."
The Queen: "We are not amused!"
;)

Yes, as all conservatives are, I was more than happy that SK booting out the conniving comrades in the NDP and I sincerely wish the province all the best going forward.

I just wish supposedly fellow "conservatives" in SK would quit scapegoating Ontario as if it's our fault you lot elected the NDP for all those decades while we paid you untold billions in equalization.

dp, the oil in the Bakken play is found in a thin bed of sandstone, or sometimes siltstone, sandwiched between two layers of shale.

It's much too deep to be mined, nor is that necessary. The Bakken is typically exploited by drilling multi-leg horizontal wells along the zone, and then pumping from the point where the horizontal legs meet the main wellbore.

It's the development of horizontal drilling technology that has made this play possible.

"It's the development of horizontal drilling technology that has made this play possible."

I also believe this was the technology Saddam was using in the '80s to steal oil across the boarder from Kuwait... lol.

Finding the oil, and doing something with it are two different issues. Canadian refineries are operating at 90% of capacity and, as far as I know, no new refineries are being built.
ie. all we can do is export the stuff; great for revenue but that's about it. No different than B.C. exporting raw logs rather than supporting Canadian industry, primary and secondary. Really really short sighted.
(I just know somebody's going to say that B.C. doesn't export raw lumber...
http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/story.html?id=0fb97bf8-4bab-4b01-a6ce-c1abb0a8e76f&k=92715)

Theres also a good article in the calgary hearald today talking about this and the djion tax

"It's the development of horizontal drilling technology that has made this play possible."

I also believe this was the technology Saddam was using in the '80s to steal oil across the boarder from Kuwait... lol.

Posted by: Warwick at July 4, 2008 11:44 AM

If you have a milkshake, and I have a milkshake, and I put my straw into your milkshake...

Saskatchewan has the raw potential (in resources) to become a "have" province, alway had, but technology has clearly made it more viable. It is up to the new political climate there to make the most of it and not screw up. Now if Ontario and Quebec can come to terms with that fact then Canada just might survive as a country.

Not to rain on your parade, but Bakken's recoverable oil is about 4 billion barrels. That's nothing to sneeze at, but to put things in perspective, the U.S. consumes that much every 6 months, and the world, every 6 weeks.

Amounts of 500 billion barrels being floated around by investment promoters should be taken with a whole shaker of salt. Most of that 'oil' would be much harder and costlier to recover than Alberta's oil sands.

Quebec next !?

No thanks, Dion does not like 'izzy money' for hiz peoples.

* Natural gas discovery prompts Quebec to see self-sufficiency *

Ross Marowits
THE CANADIAN PRESS
Published Thursday April 3rd, 2008
Appeared on page B2

[Quebec currently imports all of its natural gas from Alberta. Quebec has long been the focus of natural gas drillers. While exploration of the St. Lawrence Lowlands is the most advanced, other large reserves are believed to exist in the Gaspe and the Anticosti Island.

Substantial gas production from the St. Lawrence alone could mean billions of dollars in royalty revenues for the province and furnish much needed employment along the heart of Quebec's south shore.

It would also create local employment with the addition of support services jobs and produce payments of surface leases and pipeline right-a-ways to landowners.] CP

Hang on a minute here !! Is PQ not the hot bed of anti-carbon Kyotoism ??

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=148655

"Hang on a minute here !! Is PQ not the hot bed of anti-carbon Kyotoism ?? "

Not at all. Quebec is a hotbed of anti-English-ism whereby they support any tax that the English pay and which they then take.

My gawd you have thin skin Warwick. What's your excuse for Bob Rae and Dalton Mcguinty? Never mind, it's rhetorical.

I repeat. The Liberals are playing with dynamite on this issue. Think we're bluffing?

Just. Watch. Us.

dimestorenovel, that article you linked to is FALSE. The survey conducted by USGS estimated that there are 3.4 to 4 billion barrels of RECOVERABLE oil using current technology. Total oil, recoverable and non-recoverable, is estimated at close to 400 billion. Wanna bet that by the time they recover those 4 billion barrels, the technology will have improved enough that they can get another 100 billion barrels?

dp, the oil in the Bakken play is found in a thin bed of sandstone, or sometimes siltstone, sandwiched between two layers of shale.

It's much too deep to be mined, nor is that necessary. The Bakken is typically exploited by drilling multi-leg horizontal wells along the zone, and then pumping from the point where the horizontal legs meet the main wellbore.

Gordinkneehill,
My empirical source (driller) claims the Sandstone is in vertical "Waves" and the horizontal Drill goes through multiple waves like shiskabob.

Oil is Green at top of each wave & red at bottom. I don't know what that means,, maybe to much "Blue" at that point, in my research.

South of the Moose Mtns all drilling is in the Bakken zone... North of Moose Mtn drilling is still conventional ZONE (but of course the future play) More Producing wells in both ZONES

Horizontal drilling has been around for at least 15 years. That's all i've done since i joined the oil patch 13 years ago. I've drilled horizontal wells from Southern Manitoba to North Eastern BC. The biggest difference in the Bakken play is how they are fracing the pay zone. It's also expensive to do and requires a higher price of oil. But new techonolgy is allowing the oil companies to frac more of the pay zone at once.

A. Cooper

Rae and McShifty are Ontario's alone to pay for. When our retard citizens vote left, Ontario pays for it.

When SK votes left, Ontario pays for it.

As for separatism, don't think you'll be safe from leftard fools when the "west" goes as you may want to consider that:

A) one election win in SK isn't a trend, and
B) BC's Cambell is a liberal and they have a whole lot of leftards on the "left" coast. Just listen to what that twit was saying about the North's reliance on Diesel. Not all the leftard fools live in the "centre."

flyboy: "glue a map of the area in question to a flat sheet of boxboard"

...you don't belong to the Flat Earth Society by any chance do ya?

;-)

So when do the Liberals and Dippers start trying to implement NEP II?

You seriously need some geography lessons -- that's England AND Wales you've placed in the north central portion of the province, not England by itself.

Warwick: Sask will happily pay it's share of equalization. Dion's tax is a grab far and above that. Try it, and we walk out.

flyboy said:"phantie: your 'joke' about toronto-is-the-centre-of-the-country are exceeded in age only by the date of confederation. time to update your act."

actually, Montreal used to be the enter of the universe and Toronto was a dump with muddy streets.
the center moved over thanks to both Mayor Jean Drappeu and the PQ.

The last CEO out of Montreal picked up the pivotal manhole cover and dropped it off at younge and bloor.

I hear the big wheels of Hogtown are mounting a discreet guard over the manhole, as there are rumors of an attempt to move the cover to Calgary.

"Sask will happily pay it's share of equalization"

Mighty generous of you, Paul, after all those years of collecting it. I'd say you have a ways to go before you have paid the right to whine.

As I said, Alberta has a reason to be pissed off at Ottawa. SK doesn't. Not given it's hoovering of Ontario's (and Alberta's) cash, not given it's socialism.

"Yes, Ellie there are - if you count new pumpjacks virtually stacked atop one another in the Stoughton-Forget area an "update". I'll post a few phots after I get home Tuesday."

Cool! This made my day -- and I don't even live in Saskatchewan!

Warick,
It is the Ontario voters that set up this retarded system of rewarding socialists and deadbeats for their actions or lack of actions.

Ontario has found it in their interests to pay Atlantic Canada to not fish, not look for work and overtax business. Likewise Saskatchewan could play with discredited social, economic and eugenic theories. Vote for the liberals and they were happy.

Get your fellow Ontarians to change the system. Out here in BC our vote is just as ineffective as any other western province.

"You seriously need some geography lessons -- that's England AND Wales you've placed in the north central portion of the province, not England by itself."

Big whoop.

Personally I don't give a hoot what the center of Canada is.
As for transfer payments, well, I don't think Saskatchewan or Newfoundland should lose there’s till the infrastructure is in place to handle the new wealth or prosperity. Most Albertans I know the best hedge against this insidious monetary equalization horror. Is for all the Provinces to be on there own two feet. If it takes some time okay. Just no Corporate welfare or stupid social programs.

Why should you believe me or any other Albertan? Even though we are giving the lions share of payments in most years with Ontario (Takes money to run an Empire, they had us to steal from at least), we still have given NO interest loans to Provinces like the wine industry in B.C. that has promise. We expected not to be paid back. We have made loans & will now be going full tilt with Saskatchewan since the treaty signing to help develop faster.

Albertans would prefer to see ALL of Canada prosper even against its own self appointed robbers.

By the way we never did get transfer payments. I think 3 carts of rotten apples during the depression. In return they (Ontario ) stole all our personnel bank accounts to shore up Eastern banks. Yup just stole em outright. But than that’s why we have the system we do. Its to stop growth, not create it except more government powers into Provinces or federally. Manitoba had to actually fight a war to become a Province, don’t forget. So lets keep the engine revved in Saskatchewan till they can say to Ottawa , we don’t need your stinking money you take from others for power. Of course the anti-Canadian PET created this cluster #$@!

Warwick. Your constant moaning about equalization payments coming OUT of AB is becoming most tiresome. I would advise you to go have a serious read of how the system works, and then perhaps you will find that about 80% of your moaning is misguided by misinformation.

Whereas equalization started in 1957 under one John G. Diefenbaker, it was hardly a Liberal plot. In the beginning, the only have provinces were ON and BC. In the mid 70's AB finally just crawled into have status and it wasn't until the 90's that AB became a have province of any significance. Certainly, Ottawa with the NEP contributed to this slowing (if not stopping) of AB's economic growth, so according to Warwick's theory this must have been a good thing. After all, had it not been in place, you would have paid FAR more out than you did.

Why is it Warwick that you decline to let SK join the whining of those that are now in the have side of the equation? Your precious AB hasn't been there nearly as long as ON, and yet you moan most piteously and loudly as compared to ON. And SK is just learning how to moan as a have, rather than a have-not. It's a steep curve. It took Ontario almost 45 years to complain a little bit, but once they whimpered, by gum AB hopped right on that woe is us bobsleigh.

NONE of the above applies to the Green Shaft plan which is strictly a "rape your neighbour" plan which all the leftards most enthusiastically support. I'm not even a big fan of equalization. But until we have about 200 million as a population and investment rules that encourage local investment of funds, equalization is what it's gonna take.

As for what I said about local investment, if you want to see it in action, check out Iowa. It seems that any community with a population of 500 or better has some kind of manufacturing industry employing 20+ people. And a great number of communities smaller than that too.Truly amazing and inspiring.

...tee do.

pete is right:

"The survey conducted by USGS estimated that there are 3.4 to 4 billion barrels of RECOVERABLE oil using current technology. Total oil, recoverable and non-recoverable, is estimated at close to 400 billion. Wanna bet that by the time they recover those 4 billion barrels, the technology will have improved enough that they can get another 100 billion barrels?"

As history has proven time and time and time again what isn't recoverable today will become recoverable at some later date due to a combination of technological breakthroughs, the price of oil and improved economies of existing technology.

They are still pumping oil in parts of AB that were given up for dead by the big oilcos 30 years ago.

I would guess that over the life of the bakken we could see 50% of the conservatively estimated 250 BB bbls of in situ oil will be brought to the surface. It may take 50 to 75 yrs before the last BBL is pumped however and probably a couple of decades before we see MM bbl/day production levels in the SK part of the play reached.

Still in all this in the long-term will cause a significant global shift in where oil is sourced.

I'm going to nit pick here, Saskatchewan is 1200km from N to S, and Britain is 900km. That silhouette of Britain should be a lot bigger.

Nit-pick #2 - The red silhouette is actually an image of England and Wales. Not just England.

Off Topic;
Sask Wheat pool employees on strike,perhaps this is old news.

Keith Davey, the Liberals' campaign strategist, put it bluntly during the Liberals' 1980 federal election: "Screw the West, we'll take the rest."
The above is Dion"s stratagy for 2008 -2009 election, or his Green Shaft - watch out Alberta and Saskatchewan, this is NEP II.

"Marc Lalonde, Mr. Trudeau's energy minister and the brains behind the NEP, later acknowledged the motive was what Albertans had suspected all along: to transfer wealth from Alberta to Central Canada."

The above is a direct quote from "uneasy patriots" - see National Post, todays date - Liberal Policy in the 70's - Liberal policy today.
As long as The Liberal Party can get enough seats in Ontario/Quebec, they do not give a damn about the west or east coast. Dion is like a crack whore looking for her next hit - he will do anything to get the Ontario/Quebec vote, raping the west is NO BIG DEAL.

That might keep India and China from buying up leases like they've done in the Alberta oilsands.

At least one major upcoming producing facility is Norwegian-owned. Statoil, to be specific.

I also believe this was the technology Saddam was using in the '80s to steal oil across the boarder from Kuwait... lol.

No, that was a Simpsons episode. LOLOL.

I just never realized how much England looks like a bat seen from the side.

...flyboie

- yep, I'm in the fringe group of creationists, but yes do stay on topic eh.

I like the map analogy. Saskatchewan is BIG. Now, you have a government, hopefully, of the stature of BIG SASKATCHEWAN, and it will finally allow the unbridled exploitation of Saskatchewan's natural advantages. Population grows. Taxes decrease but revenues increase. Everybody happy - except the watermelons.

...yap yap yap.