Read the American Declaration of Independence! You'll be needing it before too long!!

This along with free speech are barrel of a gun issues, are they not?

Western Canadian, to my mind this is.

Not only is the Liberal Opposition _meaning_ to kill the Western growth, but they mean to "put us in our place" too.

I apologize to the latte-crowd who may read this, but anyone who wants to plan on killing my business . . . they get my fist in reply.

I sincerely hope I didn't hurt any Torontoninians feelings with my lurid description regarding the action of my "fist".

Cheers,
lance

Thank you Lance, thank you, thank you, thank you! I can use all the help I can get!

Don't tread on me Mr. Dion

The Press has not been completely compromised or "Enslaved". The American Constitution is based on English Common Law (Magna Carta) with the exception to the rights of the Monarchy

I like this quote by Jefferson
"The creator has made the earth for the living, not the dead. Rights & Powers can only belong to persons".. But he concluded with an absolute. "Nothing then is unchangeable but the inherent and unalienable rights of man"

James Madison
"A Government resting on a minority, is a aristocracy not a republic, and could not be safe with a numerical (and) physical force against it, without a standing Army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace."

The Liberals have pissed on every right of the "Person" (individual) What can not be obvious?

A) Smoking Bans that are enforced by race.

B) Gun Laws that are enforced by race.

c) CHRC that are enforced by race.

The rules of law are turned upside down.

Listen up, you greedy westerners. Us here in Ontario are rightfully deserving of all of your wealth. Do you not understand that we have not yet completed the building of our socialist dream state?
Just bear with us, transfer your wealth, and be happy!

We have the following projects to complete, and you oil soaked red necks are going to pay for them:

1. National day care(read, free day care for professors at Ontario universities)

2. Gun Registry II (read, the final confiscation of the rest of your firearms)

3. `Kyoto II (read, outside of Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal, all non-progressives will live in caves)

These are the "priorities"(although, not easy to make)of me, mister bombardion.

If you do not like it, too friggin bad!

"We will not allow another Easterner"

Easterner? It was a quebecker that did it the first time, and a quebecker that's doing it this time.

During the entire era of eastern Canadian economic power, the Ontario and Quebec powers-that-be used every trick in the book to ensure that their products (mostly industrial) were protected (for example, by tariff) to the point that other Canadians were actively prevented from obtaining competing products from elsewhere in the world.

Now that western Canada has something Ontario and Quebec wants, they're going to use every trick in the book to ensure we get the short end of the deal again.

of course you all know that 60% of all canadians will vote for some form of socialism. as far as individual freedom in this country, well, you have already flushed it.

Right on Lance. Passage of that abomination into law in Ottawa means, as far as I am concerned, the end of Canada. Bring on a referendum under The Clarity Act.A hundred years of being the milk cow to feed Eastern greed for Western money will be over.

Relax folks. It is obviously a desperate roll of the dice by Dion with the encouragement of Iggy and Rae who see it as a means of greasing his skids.

Mention of enslaved press brings to mind the MSM here who are just that to the Liberals across the board. They've been wined, dined and married to Liberals and Liberal operatives to the point of no return. It's inbred.

They're already singing Dion's praises for bringing out this shifty green plot to trick us with.
There's little common sense in his proposal aside from confusing people and tricking them to get Liberals to power which is all that matters to Liberals and what this is all about.

Since we're so low on the pollution scale in this country it makes no sense to bring out a fire brigade to put out a candle. We need the common sense, realistic approach taken by the present government, we don't need to be taxed to death and shut down our economy to make progress.

Beware of Liberals mad for power and broke, Dion's green shaft is the first dose of snake oil,swallow at your peril.

I wouldn't even give Dion the credit of seeing this as a 'screw the West' policy. He is trying so hard to please the Suzuki-Gore cult that permeates Toronto and some of the East, that he has no concept of western Canada, hard work, and initiative.(all that izzy money)
If you read the comments on the CBC website following Prime Minister Harper's bold words, you can see who is 'convinced' that Dion is on the right track.
Of course Daltoon backs him up...they are both in the same bubble, and propped by the same media.

Here's an Easterner completely on the side of the West. The Liberals' dirty rotten attempt at a power grab is a slap to all Canadians who value our freedom and our once great country.

If the sheeple keep letting the wolf into the fold we're doomed.

I'd altogether welcome a Western revolt. Maybe I'd join you!

The great thing about this is De-Yawn can say anything he wants but can't actually do it, and the more he talks the more people become convinced that this guy is promising to be for Canada what Bob Rae was for Ontario, a tax and spend socialist of the wost and highest order.

Stick a fork in him, he's done.

Careful zip. Never count the libranos out. In my riding, they could run a monkey and still take 40% of the vote.

One serious gaffe by the CPC, and those arseholes are back.

Rhetorical question of the day: if the carbon tax is so bad, why did the senior economist for TD Bank Don Drummond and Tom D'Aquino of Canadian Council of Chief Executives endorse it?

Surely big business wouldn't back a new $15 billion dollar tax, I ask again rhetorically, if they thought it would harm Canada and the economy, right?

Another rhetorical question: if Saskatchewan had hydro and Ontario had fossil fuels, would you still be against the carbon tax?

If I remember correctly, most of the complaints here were concerning the effect that this will have on the poor, the elderly and the regular working folk.

Big business just passes those costs along.

They are already revenue collection agents for the gov't.

Rhetorical answer - maybe you should not just take bits and pieces out of what someone said.

For example - here is what else Drummond said about the plan

"It's never going to be revenue-neutral for any individual or any corporation,'' Don Drummond, the chief economist for TD Bank, told The Canadian Press.

"Everybody's going to be able to do their own calculations to some degree, and there will be winners and there will be losers. So in aggregate you may say, 'OK, the $15 billion got recycled, but it didn't in my household budget.'''

The real question is not whether it's a good idea or not, the real question that concerns Canadians like me is how on earth a TAX GRAB can be labelled "revenue neutral".

All taxes will eventually be felt by the consumers.

Pretty easy to say someone "supports" something if you pick and choose what they say.

Oh and Rhetorical answer - if Sask had hydro and Ontario had oil; the caps would be against hydro. Why is "big oil" the bad guy? Why are auto makers exempt? That was a "rhetorical question" as I already know the answer.

Kemit the frog is about to create the REPUBLIC OF WESTERN CANADA,we took it last time but never again.

This is your "legacy", your "remembrance". NEP II. I'll tell you right now that we won't take this. We won't take a second edition NEP. We won't allow our Provinces wealth being Shafted to the east. We will not tolerate a federal incursion into our jurisdiction. You can lament our 2% (Canadian GHG contribution) all you want, but it will not fly. It will not pass and you will not win.

Jeeze Louise. Dial it down, you big girl.

How many years in the last 50 was Saskatchewan not gobbling equalization?

I've read Dion's 48 page Green Shi*t Policy. It's a scam. There is NOTHING in it for the environment. It doesn't do one thing to reduce either emissions or pollution. Not. One. Thing.

It's a means of obtaining money to buy votes in specific areas of Canada. In rural Quebec. In the latte cities of Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver.

Remember, the big cities are where the House of Commons seats are. Dion is after those seats. He doesn't give a damn about emissions or pollution. These people will be bought by the mere words of Carbon Tax and 'Evil Polluters'. The latte crowd are not interested in changing their lifestyle except in the most superficial way - just as is Dion. Using cold water for washing and naming your dog Kyoto.

Other than that - it's Up To The Government to look after Evil. So, they'll vote for his 'plan' because it taxes Evil...and they can then forget about doing anything on their own.

BUT, BUT, his plan does NOTHING about reducing emissions or pollution. And he is deliberately misleading us by merging those two words. None of the tax money raised goes to develop and market new technology for our factories. Remember, we Evil Polluters are Canadians. These are factories that we built, according to the legal standards of the time.

Now, because we have changed our standards, we require new technology. So, Mr. Dion - invest in the devt of new technology. He doesn't do that.
Provide low cost loans so we can purchase and install the new technology. He doesn't do that.
Not ONE PENNY goes to reducing emissions or pollution.
Not ONE PENNY goes to enabling reduction.

It goes to buy votes. That's the only action.

Votes in the poor Quebec areas. Votes in the megacities of Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver.

Dion doesn't give a damn about the west; they don't (yet) have enough seats - even though their population is the same size as that of Quebec. They are 11 seats fewer than Quebec despite equivalent populations. So, he doesn't care.

The fact that his plan will increase costs? He doesn't care...because his only agenda is to get those seats in an election and come to power.

You have to read the document and see that there's no plan, no action intended in reducing emissions. Dion doesn't want them reduced; he requires them. Otherwise - there's nothing to tax. And he needs that money to buy votes.

Dion had plenty of opportunity to debate the issue of the environment before he hypocritically betrayed his environmental base and caved because he was frightened of the prospect of an election that he knew he and his party would lose. Now that he is trying his last gasp attempt at life support for his ailing leadership, he wants to be the one to set the agenda? I don’t think so, Dion. You had a lot of opportunities to do just that on this issue and many others - and you failed, time and again.

Screw you Dion. You want a debate on your pathetic little tax scheme? Then grow a pair and have the courage to do so during a leadership debate during an election campaign so the people can finally judge for themselves. If you can’t even do that much, then your idiotic plan, and your position on the issue, aren’t worth the paper its written on. i highly doubt Harper is going to give you and the media the pulpit you are so desperate for to rescue your sinking ass.

I wonder, is the membership roster of the Western Block party going to reach 1 million people this year?

The Axworthy brothers are wholly representative of the PET II socialists who like Citoyen Dion mask themselves as a Liberal.
These PET II socialists would be placed at the top/peak/apex of socialist Citoyen Dion's NEP II, aka socialist Pyramid Scheme.
The Treason of the Intellectuals? Indeed.
The NEP II runs deeply through their heads.
Citoyen Dion is deluded in thinking/casting himself as PET II.
...-

"Thomas Axworthy is chair of the Centre for the Study of Democracy at Queen's University."

"UW-Administration President And Vice Chancellor
Remarks by Dr. Lloyd Axworthy, President and Vice-Chancellor of The University of Winnipeg, To the Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce, May 17, 2007 ..."

wait until the good people of Nova Scotia, who know that 90% of their electricity comes from coal fired plants, get their new power bills, compliments of Steffi's income re-distribution plan.

The asshat who brought you NEP 1;

“Pierre’s father owned a chain of gas stations in Quebec which he sold to Petro Fina prior to WWII. As payment, Pierre’s dad got a lot of shares in Petro Fina. This sale made Pierre Trudeau heir to a sizeable fortune. Pierre’s dad died leaving his fortune to his wife.

In the 1970’s the Arabs jacked up the price of oil and the Canadian government under Pierre Trudeau decided it needed a national “toy” oil company, i.e. Petro Canada. The boys in Ottawa decided they needed a chain of gas stations in their “toy” oil company. Petro Fina owned a chain of gas stations in eastern Canada. The stock was trading at about 10 bucks. The government began negotiations with Petro Fina and its stock rose and rose and rose. Finally, the government closed the Petro Fina deal, got the chain of gas stations, paid Petro Fina big dollars and our government got more debt.

Mrs. Trudeau got rich on the shares she held and Pierre was very happy to see his Momma get rich because he was the heir of her estate. A number of years later, Momma died and Pierre got rich too.

The documents concerning the sale were sealed for fifty years as state secret.

Pierre Trudeau, our CBC created national hero, was a crook. “

http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Goldstein_Lorrie/2008/06/22/5953001-sun.php

I see that a Lib blogger is making a comparison between Dion and Obama..check out blog Far and Wide for the post.I had a feeling this was coming,as there was a line in Dion's speech about 'we will replace fear with hope'..sound familiar?? Same pretty words and empty promises that Obama uses.

I think that if Dion wants to debate his "plan" then Harper should take him up on it. Dion would get his clock totally cleaned - not only would the "substance" of it get destroyed but once again Canadians will get a huge dose of Dion's incoherent babbling.

Ha ha ha you partisan wankers.

Let's have an adult debate and not breathless chicken little declarations.

What I find particularly galling about the entire issue is that Dion is willing to wreck the Canadian economy based on some feeble IPCC climate model that has already been shown to be completely wrong , and the MSM just go along with the BS, assuming the IPCC model is correct !

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/climate-change-confirmed-global-warming-cancelled

If Canada totally shut down it's economy to output ZERO carbon , it would make no difference to climate temperature , even using the discredited IPPC climate model !

I have watched the series "John Adams" twice now. It is inspiring to do so. I sense a shift in westerner's perception of where our "place" in canada is. It certainly isn't as kitchen staff to the Bronfmans, or the Demarais family.

Again, Dion's 'Green Shi*t' isn't about the environment. There is NOTHING in his plan to clean up emissions or pollution.

The plan is only about a massive tax grab on Canadian industries, and in particular, those that produce our energy base. It's a money grab.
What will Dion do with these billions?

He'll buy votes. In the poor areas of Quebec and in the megacities of Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver. How will he buy votes?

For the poor, he's offering money, taken from our energy producing industries. These poor won't realize until Dion is in power (and IF he puts this plan into action, and I claim that he never would do so)..that their cost of living will skyrocket. Far beyond any 'cash back' from that money.

For the megacities, filled with people in govt funded jobs (health care, civil service, education etc) who have no idea how our industries operate - he's offering a Free-Yourself-From-Guilt-Trip. This trip is an acceptance of taxing our industries to 'Punish Evil'. Again, these people won't realize until and if he puts his plan into action, that their costs will also skyrocket.

Oh- and both groups don't realize that Dion's plan has NO ACTION in it to actually stop emissions and pollution. None.

So - what is Dion doing? He's a slick used car salesman. He's using WORDS to pull a fast one on Canadians. The WORDS are that he's concerned with the environment. The WORDS are that he wants to stop emissions and pollution. Oh, and he also wants to Help The Poor.

The ACTIONS are that he's really not stopping emissions or pollution. And he's not helping the poor.

His Green Shi*t plan has no strategies for either. If he actually implemented it, the cost of living and inflation would explode. So, his plan is really only WORDS. He has no intention of putting it into effect. Its real agenda is WORD APPEAL. He wants to appeal to the poor, by giving them handouts rather than jobs. He wants to appeal to the guilty by telling them that The Govt Will Look After Pollution.

But the real agenda is to get them to VOTE FOR DION. That's the only agenda. Afterwords, he doesn't care. Just vote for him.

It's a scam. He's manipulating us by telling us that his plan is about the envt. It isn't. It's an open manipulation to get us to vote for the Liberals.

Carbon tax, or cap-'n'-trade, are both rediculous Emperor's clothing for Western PAttricians completely divorced from reality.

They are genuflections to the current intellectual fad of envro-mentalism.

Right, RW, Dion's using the fad of enviro-mentalism. He's being intellectually and operationally dishonest.

IF his agenda was to lower emissions and pollution, THEN, he ought to invest that tax money into the devt of new technology so that our industries can provide cleaner energy. But his tax money doesn't spend a penny on this.

IF his agenda was to lower emissions and pollution, THEN, he ought to invest that money into low cost loans to enable our industries to purchase new technology. But his tax money doesn't spend a penny on this.

He simply takes our industries' money..and uses it to buy himself votes. The industries won't have any money to purchase any new technology. They won't be able to - they are being taxed to death. Result? They'll have to raise their prices and our cost of living will explode.

Or, our industries will simply leave. No more tax money for Mr. Dion. What will he do? He wants that money - not to lower emissions or pollution. He wants it to buy votes.

What happened in Europe with their carbon taxes? Ivision of the National Post writes:

"This was the experience in European countries that introduced carbon taxes, spent the proceeds and then had to find new revenue sources when the tax dried up.

"In every case, they have defaulted to massive increases in health care, employment insurance and mandatory pension fund premiums to make up systemic operating budget shortfalls," said Aldyen Donnelly, president of Vancouver-based emissions consultancy GEMCo."

Heh. The income from carbon taxes dried up as either the companies left or did manage to reduce emissions. But, since the agenda was really only money, money, money, then, the govt had to increase other taxes to maintain all those programs.

So, to maintain Dion's new income tax reductions, our health care costs, other costs, will all go up. The govt will find that it can't fund its current programs and will start to cut them. It will go further into debt.

The Harper govt has been paying down our national debt, saving us billions each year in interest. Dion and his Liberals will have to put us further and further into debt.

Again, if Dion gave a damn about the envt, apart from using cold water to wash his clothes and naming his dog Kyoto, he'd find the means to develop the technology and use that technology in our industries. He's not interested.

He only wants our money. So that he can bribe us to vote for him.

This is the best explanation of carbon offsetting I have come across.

cheatneutral.com

Lot's of tough talk here today. However, don't be shocked at how nothing will happen if Dion is successful. Not a shot will be fired and no one will leave their "incomes" long enough to mount a decent protest.

Everyone has too much to lose to be a martyr for the cause against the green enlsaught. Most will continue to talk tough then go to work and pay their increased taxes. After all, got kids eh? Want a new truck eh? Got a mortgage eh? Heading South this winter eh? Gotta reno the kitchen eh? Etc. Consumer slavery! Stuff trumps principals. Stuff trumps freedom!

Canadians have no balls and we prove it regularly. Half of out population works for or has family working for government paychecks. We have already been taken over by the forces of big government and we lack the will to fight. Most Canadians think the gun registry is a good thing. Think Muslims are okay folks, think all the things the Liberal have done to us are basically good things. How stupid are Canadians?

Consider what total excrement the Liberals have proved to be and consider that they are still running neck and neck with Chicken Little at the helm.

And you think there is a chance that Western Canadians are going to get up on their hind legs and do anything about anything? Plus who wants to go to jail for trying to do something about our tax slavery and our corrupt lying governments? At this point it would take illegal and violent acts to bring the changes that are talked about here.

We are the land of the spoiled and the soft. We are a socialist country, the Liberals are a socialist party and they will eventually find a way back into power and Harper's tenure will be called a 'nice try'.

Good Morning y'all! Got Coffee?

Greg Weston, who normally writes in favour of the Liberals, has a devastatingly honest outline against the plan in the Toronto Sun. He writes, in part, in the form of a dialogue:

"Simple," said Odd. "First, you collect about $15 billion by slapping a carbon tax on Big Oil, the electric utilities, and any other industry that produces greenhouse gas emissions. Then you use the loot to buy votes in the next election."

Appeals to NDP

"Alors," the Liberal leader said. "With that much money, we could steal votes from the NDP by promising big handouts for poor families, the unemployed, single moms, the elderly, students, even those grumpy people in tweed jackets."

"Already in the plan," said Odd. "The biggest winners in relative terms will be low-income Canadians and the modest side of the middle class, people who would normally vote NDP or swing Liberals. It will also help build your image as a dweeb with heart, compared to those bloodless Harperites."

And the biggest losers? Dion asked.

"Bonus!" cried the wizard. "Over half of that $15 billion will come from Alberta where even my magic wand couldn't produce votes for you, whereupon it will be transferred into the pockets of mainly lower-income voters in more Liberal-friendly Ontario, Quebec, and the Maritimes.

"Extraordinaire!" cried Dion. "But it says here the whole plan is revenue neutral and that the auditor general will make sure of that every year. But the poor people getting the money aren't likely the ones paying the new tax to heat their homes and fill up their SUVs, no?"

The wizard laughed. "Revenue neutral doesn't mean giving the money back in tax cuts to the same people who paid it in carbon tariffs, just that you're promising to spend every penny you collect, and the Liberals have always been pretty good at that, eh, boss?"

"Okay Wiz," said Dion. "Let me get this straight: 15% of greenhouse gases come from cars and trucks, and with fuel prices already through the ozone hole this year, you want us to slap another tax at the pumps?"

"Relax," said the wizard, "The plan specifically exempts fuel at the pumps from any new direct charges -- slap the tax on oil production and eventually it will be passed down to consumers anyway, except they won't know what hit them."

Guess who pays?

Dion leaned forward and squinted at the wizard. "Is what you're telling me is that consumers will ultimately end up paying most of the $15 billion a year in higher prices on gas, home heating, electricity, food, clothing -- you name it?"

"Precisely," said the wizard.

"This is nuts," said Dion.

"Insane," said the wizard. "But there's a chance voters will think that anyone willing to try something this crazy must be a bold and visionary leader."

This is your "legacy", your "remembrance". NEP II. I'll tell you right now that we won't take this. We won't take a second edition NEP. We won't allow our Provinces wealth being Shafted to the east. We will not tolerate a federal incursion into our jurisdiction. You can lament our 2% (Canadian GHG contribution) all you want, but it will not fly. It will not pass and you will not win.

Jeeze Louise. Dial it down, you big girl.

How many years in the last 50 was Saskatchewan not gobbling equalization?
================================
Dear Eastern Bastard. I'm sorry for your unfortunate parentage, but really, it does not excuse your misreading of someone else's comment. The passage you quote was not created at my keyboard, although I'm not saying I disagree with it. Better luck next time.

And besides, where the heck do you think Ottawa got the money to make the equalization payments. Getting back some of our money is not something for we necessarily have to kneel prostrate in perpetual gratitude in front of you Eastern Bastards for. Should'a left it in our pockets to begin with.

The liberals know this is not going to fly. It is just noise they can use. They have to have something to go into the next election, even if they know they haven't a chance. They know Ontario is jealous of the prosperity of the west, and they are going to use that to keep some seats in Ontario. They also know as dumb as the left-lib socialist are, they will not be willing to pay a green shaft tax. There is not a left-lib socialist who is not wondering if their job is considered green enough, by the glowtard movement. Even if it is, they may let their mind wonder to see the correlation effect of shutting down ungreen jobs, to the exisitence of theirs.

Meanwhile back in the real world, Hydro costs are going up, natural gas has announced further increases, fuel costs by the trucking industry has caused rising costs in our food and all products delivered be trucks,almost everything. Of course wages are not rising and job cuts are everywhere and spreading. Canadians savings are the lowest ever and personal debt is at critical levels. Tourism is dropping as Americans are staying home with their own problems.

The safe massive government jobs continue to suck greater amounts of money from the private industry with teachers hitting $94k in their lastest contract offer. GM in Oshawa is being replaced by education and health industry jobs, sounds like an equal trade off. The US is tanking with the stock market in freefall.

Seems like a perfect storm to me and De Yawn wants to further compound this with a tax that will add further costs to everyone! Gun registry ring any bells! Hello...crickets.

Bravo ET, for shining the light on the Grit redistribution scheme to buy votes. Mr Harper should accept a debate with Dion, with some conditions:

- no holds barred debate, no "moderator" to help Dion with his english, logic and rebuttal
- now that Dion has been stupid enough to open door, debate in english on Question Period
- make sure Dion must answer questions about why he and his government "didn't get it done," because Dion will try to argue this is irrelevant. Ensure Mr Dion explains precisely how emissions will be lowered (how many tons?) and how much he will negate global warming with his plan. Then Dion can explain why very little, certainly nowhere near enough, money will go to developing new energy source. Then Dion can explain how Canada is to replace oil as a major revenue source and wealth creator in this country. Then Dion can explain the failure of this approach elsewhere, with fuel riots in Europe and Asia as we speak.

When Dion's debate challenge is presented on those terms, he will run for the curtain, and say this is too complicated to be covered in a debate, so we should just be able to talk about how big a meanie Harper is.

Canadians should get every possible chance to see how inexperienced, naive and incomprehensible the Grit leader really is, and have his power at all costs exposed to the light of day for all Canadians. I would like to see that.

What of the Liberal commitment to Kyoto ? There is only one way to meet our obligations , namely buying our way out . Why no mention of this from Dion ?

I think a key question to put to Dion is:

How does your plan function to reduce emissions?

Remember, he has no targets for reduction outlined. None.
He has no plan to develop new technology to make 'clean energy'.
He has no plan to enable industries to purchase and use new technology.

So, apart from taxing the current emissions, how are you going to reduce them? Well?

His only answer ...has to be, that he will tax them so much that in order to make any money, they'll HAVE to, on their own, purchase and install new technology.
What's the problem with this answer? The real world doesn't operate that way.

The industries will simply increase their prices and the CONSUMER will pay those taxes.

Dion is presupposing two things:
One, that the technology for clean energy already exists, in a functional and accessible form. It doesn't.

Two, that the technology that currently exists is not so outrageously expensive to purchase and operate that it won't bankrupt a company that does purchase/use it. It's still too expensive.

But wait, Dion isn't presupposing those two things above. He's not interested in our energy industries reducing their emissions. He just wants their money, so that he can make tons of promises to the poor and the guilty. So they'll vote for him.

By the time Canadians realize that Dion's plan doesn't zilch for the environment and is a total scam to manipulate us to vote for him, he plans to be in power..and like all Liberals..he'll do what he wants.

Certainly, he won't deal with the national debt; that's not The Liberal Way. The Liberal Way is to bribe voters. And he won't cut costs, he'll offload costs on to the provinces (that's what Chretien and Martin did).

My guess is that at the moment, too many pundits and blogs are seeing right through Dion's scam of Canadians. He's taxing the west, to buy himself votes among the poor and the megacity latte crowd.

Nothing to do with the environment. And, his plan will plunge Canada into greater and greater deficits as the Liberals try to keep up with funding their promises. The environment? Nothing will be done.

By the way, the Conservative plan, called Turning the Corner and EcoAction (google both) does call for targeted reductions.

www.ecoaction.gc.ca

The Conservative Plan sets mandatory targets for all major industries, cutting by 18% by 2010. The plan also addresses air pollution. Dion manipulates us by merging the two terms. And, his plan doesn't do anything about emissions or pollution.

Dion's plan is our very own made-in-Canada Kyoto money grab and transfer. Like Kyoto, it doesn't deal with reducing emissions or pollution. Like Kyoto, it's all about taking money from one place and flinging it out in handbills to others in another place. In return for their vote.

ET: Thanks for your comments. They are always a wortwhile read.

Lance: When Dion comes to Sask. to peddle this "Green Sh*t Plan" we need to organize a prostest and run that *&^%$# out of town on the rails. Let's give him a taste of good old-fashioned Western outrage. Dion is not going to knee-cap Sask. for his election aspirations.

Isn't it time for the West to separate?

ET, yes good points; and another thing - has anyone else noticed that Dion never wants to address his plans in a general election - he just wants to chuck s**t from behind the curtain, and have a debate on an important issue, not in an election, but on a Toronto centric "news" program, where a "moderator" can translate for him, and help him slant the debate into climate heroes (him) and climate criminals (Harper).

Mr Dion, elections are for this sort of thing, but you don't want that. Why not?

The current price of coal is $35 to $45 / tonne. So a tax of $40 per tonne doubles the price of coal. Does this mean that the price of coal generated electricity doubles also?

Rhetorical question of the day: if the carbon tax is so bad, why did the senior economist for TD Bank Don Drummond and Tom D'Aquino of Canadian Council of Chief Executives endorse it?

Because both these lick-spittals are part of the "family compact" of central control. They are both closet commies. Don Drummond has shilled for the Liberals before, as has D'Aquino. They are the Taronna "status quo" crowd - don't rock the boat mentality.

Bluetech:

"I wouldn't even give Dion the credit of seeing this as a 'screw the West' policy."

This is what I commented on WK's site:

No c-tax on gasoline or diesel - the number one source of CO2 emissions and the one people can do the most to change (i.e. buy more efficient vehicles, drive less). And the one item that is purchased by consumers across the country.

But it proposes a tax on heating oil and gas and fossil-generated electricity.

Alberta and Saskatchewan are almost 100% dependent on fossil-generated electricity and will be for decades to come and they use - almost exclusively - natural gas and propane for heat.

Quebec has 100% hydro-generated electricity and a large majority of homes and businesses are heated using hydro (sold at below market rates that also increase the amount of equalization that Que receives - I digress).

The tax refunds and other programs are pan-canadian in scope and offer no relief to areas of the country harder hit by the c-taxes than others

Net/Net this is a significant wealth transfer from AB and SK to Quebec and to a lesser degree other provinces.

Coincidence?

Does a bear butt-belch in the forest?

Still waiting for our great leader (Eddie $$$$) to fire a warning shot accross the bow of the sinking ship Liebrano. You raped Alberta with the first NEP. NEVER AGAIN!!!!

I believe Professor Snidely will take his windfall of money to purchase his pals "carbon credits" in China. Then he can unjustly claim that he has fixed our climate problem. Moe must be chortlin'and counting his cash.
Nice legacy, Steffie, you will cause the breakup of Canada as we know it then your eastern friends can really freeze in the dark. They won't be able to afford the heating bill. (course we'll sell it to

It should be asked how much of this money would go to Moe Strongs pocket for "carbon credits"?

Ya want a legacy? We'll give you a legacy. You can go down in Canadian history as the puffin who broke up Canada. (But we'll sell you our oil for a...reasonable price) yeah that's the ticket.

I think Dion's greeny weeny tax grab is to keep Quebec and Ontario (Toronto) in the manner they've become accustomed to. Alberta and BC will be the majority vote in the next election, but alas Dion still thinks Quebec and Ontario matter-they don't and haven't been a player for a number of years.

For the record, the East isn't Quebec and Ontario they are "Central Canada", Give Dion hell Alberta and Sask. because if it's good for Ontario and Quebec sure as shooten it's bad-bad-double bad for Alantic Canada. We've been bending over and taking it up the neither region for decades, the only votes that have ever counted were in Ontario and Quebec and it does brings joy to me ole ticker thinking the West Coast now has the power to bend Ontario and Quebec over the table and do you know what to them.

The leftards green plan is just that, retarded to the extreme. What does funding "Child Care" have to do with pollution???

Roberto is correct to be asking why Mr. Ed hasn't commented. Here are two mitigating points:

1.Iris Evans - AB minister of finance has come out and condemned it (on Rutherford).

2. At this point this is only a policy promise from an opposition leader - it's not even ratified party policy. Heads of state do not usually comment on opposition leader pronouncements. (however it would be helpful if Mr. Ed's staff would put out a release explaining that as the reason for no comment).

[quote]Nothing to do with the environment. And, his plan will plunge Canada into greater and greater deficits as the Liberals try to keep up with funding their promises. The environment? Nothing will be done.[/quote]

ET,
The Grand Plan has nothing to do with the Environment.. Never has. If you follow the dollars it's the US that is expected to pay the lions share.

DION just wants a CAP & Trade, hidden in the small print, that’s what the folks @ Franks Restaurant have told him they want.(Gore et)

The US is been placed in a financial "BOX". NO Drilling, No Nuclear, NO technology solutions. Once CAP & TRADE. We will be doomed.. stuck.
All the evil forces will insure the US stays in the BOX

In Canada the Indian Act may actually provide a simple solution.. Convince the First Nations to open up tribal associations.. An Open House for membership.. such that we may choose to be ruled by their leadership. They have individual rights including smoking, guns, and taxation. This would give us a second chance to get things right..

BTW. The AGW claim a positive feedback theory is caused by GHG. The Chances that this hidden destruct button exists may be found some where in the 4.6 billion years of the planets development without burning to a crisp or freezing over completely. TOTAL NONSENSE!

Alberta already has a Carbon Tax and Cap & Trade- I think for over a year now!!! So the demonized Albertans are WAY AHEAD of Mr. Greeny.

But, Alberta's carbon tax is NOT a weasle way to grab money for social programs disguised as "environmental".

Instead, ALL industries have a carbon cap and must pay $15 tonne over the cap or they can trade with industries within the province.

The money goes into an Alberta Innovation Fund which is, strangely enough, used for Environmental initiatives and innovations.

So far many millions of carbon tax dollars have been collected from industries and that money is used for the environment.

Industry has incentives to reduce all kinds of emmisions - not just the product we exhale (carbon dioxide).

We don't need no stinking Green Shaft from Ottawa Mr. Dion- no matter how many ads with Liberals giving us the Clap you air.

I just talked to a guy who is so angry with this carbon tax scam, that he has promised this.

If Dion manages to get his carbon tax into play, in fact if any governments worsen our economy with useless, pointless carbon taxes, that he intends to cross the country lighting forest fires. I believe him!

It sounds horrid, but what else can be done to make a point that Canadians are not going to take anymore rip off from our political thieves.

I guess there are many ways to fight back. I hadn't though of the devastation of forest fires. Now that I think about it, there are many ways to harass governments that don't directly involve torches and pitchforks in Ottawa. I think it's called eco terrorism, but from the other side.

Either Lance is a huge shareholder in Gas & Oil companies or he and Kate own a bunch of oil wells! Listen to the words he uses in his rant ....

-" 'WE' won't take this."
-" 'WE' won't allow our Province's wealth ... (blah blah blah)"
-" ... a federal incursion into 'OUR' jurisdiction."
-" 'WE' will not allow another Easterner to kill 'US' ... "

This is part of the frenzy that the Reformers (and Saskatchewan Party) Rightists have worked themselves into! They have this self righteous belief structure that is so evident in their anger and frustration.

Lance ... who exactly are the 'we' you are railing on behalf of? Why are you so in love with the big multi-nation Oil companies (unless as I mentioned, you are a HUGE shareholder or have oil on your property - in which case, I could have some sympathy for your rant) .... I'm JUST asking??!

Love!
LD

LD - the owners of the so called evil big oil are mostly just regular people who own mutual funds or some stocks or their money from their pension plans are invested in the stock market.

If stock investments in the oil industry pay a profit many seniors and pensioners see their own profits rise.

You would scream louder if the oil companies LOST money and stockholders and pension plans went belly up wouldn't you?

Alberta's Carbon Tax is One Year Old on July 1st!
We don't need your scam Dion!
Published: Friday, March 09, 2007
Well, some things you thought you'd never live to see. And one of them is an Alberta carbon tax, imposed by an Alberta government on Alberta energy companies, with the companies quietly nodding acceptance.

That's what the government introduced Thursday -- a surprisingly tough bill that will force companies to reduce their CO2 emissions per barrel by 12 per cent starting July 1, or pay $15 per tonne into a technology fund.

Call it a user fee. Or call it a technology incentive. Please go right ahead.

But what it is, actually, is a tax on carbon users and producers that will fall most heavily on oilsands companies and coal-fired electricity plants.

So it's a carbon tax, the very spectre that made Alberta shudder when the federal Liberals mentioned it.

But this carbon tax has an environmental goal. It will give companies a real incentive to lower emissions, while fostering technology that makes the job easier. And the money stays inside Alberta.

Companies can't escape by lowering production. What counts is emissions per unit, not total emissions. So the tax can be skimmed without bringing the industry to a halt.

The higher cost of doing business -- "hundreds of millions a year," according to Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers President Pierre Alvarez -- may moderate investment, but it will also force the companies to comply.

And one way for them to do that -- get ready for it -- will be through a system mirroring the Kyoto accord.

The emission credits system so reviled by Kyoto haters will come to the province, although the purchases will be called "offsets" rather than credits.

But it's exactly the same idea; big emitters can pay better performers for the right to claim their credits.

Throw in the plan for a huge CO2 pipeline to bury the stuff as deep as atomic waste, and the whole plan has elements of both Kyoto and more current thinking.

The hard greenies will find plenty to complain about, of course. They call for absolute emission reductions right now. That would force production cuts, which is exactly what they want.

And the plan only covers the largest companies that produce 70 per cent of Alberta's emissions. This is a serious omission, because the smallest energy producers are often the most casual about emissions and pollution.

Calgary Herald

relax i just fixed the problem

B.R.I.C. plus Africa at least 30 or
40 % increase by 2020.
Canada will drop at least 30% from
our total of 2%.

Until the carbon scam came along, I would never have believed bullshit could be pile so high.

The real enemies in all this are those idiots who believe the religion of climate change. Without them, the kings of climate will have no clothes.

LD: Lance ... who exactly are the 'we' you are railing on behalf of?
==================================
Sorry WE left you out, LD, but it was deliberate. No big oil benefits to lefties like you. Better luck next time.

As a Vancouverite and proud Westerner, can I make a prediction about the next federal election?

By all accounts, this idiotic, super-energized nanny state plan of Dion's should ensure his own permanent demise and guarantee the Conservatives a Majority government.

The key word there is "should". That's if the majority of Canadians had IQs average or above.

But just watch as the huge swaths of Kool-Aid drinking Torontonians, Maritimers, and some Quebecers ensure that things pretty much stay same-old, same-old.

What was that famous Einstein quote about doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results?!

Finished Lance? finsihed with your self-righteous tirade on, well, absolutely nothing? See, your rant proves that you live in a fantasy world. Your "article" contains the heaviest doses of fiction and misinformation I've read on this subject yet.

For those of you how are interested in reality, you might want to try reading through the plan itself:

http://thegreenshift.ca/pdfs/green_shift_book_en.pdf

before adopting the opinion of a paranoid delusional conspiracy theorist.

If you actually bothered to read the plan, Lance, you'd know that the plan itself is insanely simple to implement, because - get this now, are you ready? - it's a matter of installing a carbon-tax and then reducing personal income taxes, corporate revenue taxes, and small business taxes.

Hence a SHIFT in the incentives - incentives that the government has ready control over - towards cleaner production and investment.

Wooooaaaah. Mind-bogglingly diabolical.

You see, anyone with an ounce of reasonably working brain would come to the conclusion that this plan reads more like a fiscal platform - with tax cuts and tax credits for R&D investment that are likely to make Conservatives jealous (and Conservatives like Flaherty cream his pants).

The plan details...get this now...$15 billion worth of tax cuts which, now calm yourself, will be equal to the amount of tax collected by the government through their carbon tax (and, yes, gasoline is exempted from the tax increase).

In order to ensure REVENUE NEUTRALITY -- which is biiig faaaaancy word for: government cuts taxes equal to what they raised them -- the auditor general will happily comb through the accounting each year.

But hey, I don't expect you to trust the Auditor General (remember them? They're the ones who blew the lid on the Sponsorship Scandel), because the notion that the govenrment can provide checks and balances on itself isn't quite convenient to that Eastern government conspiracy theory.

To all you loser Westerner conspiracy theorist who hate the East: get a life, get a decent rational brain, or get the hell out of the country.

When jt at June 22, 2008 1:28 PM, said . ..

** Rhetorical question of the day: if the carbon tax is so bad, why did the senior economist for TD Bank Don Drummond and Tom D'Aquino of Canadian Council of Chief Executives endorse it?

Because both these lick-spittals are part of the * family compact * of central control. They are both closet commies. Don Drummond has shilled for the Liberals before, as has D'Aquino. They are the Taronna * status quo * crowd - don't rock the boat mentality. **
=================

It brought this question and answer to mind. . .

TD Bank Don Drummond: ** Where are we going to get a huge cash influx to make up for our card fraud and sub-prime losses?

Dion: Don* woree my friend. Carbon tax and carbon tax. = TG

to Rob...That is the smartest thing I have heard come out of any Ontarian.. We will get the hell out of "your" country.
That way, you can use your own military to shovel your streets the next time it snows.

Follow Dion to your grave...you deserve him.

I am afeared that this whole approach by Dion and the Libranos allows Mr. Harper the room to move a little in that direction...and get away with it.

Mark my words.

The trap

When Et points out that none of the revenue of this tax is going to loans for industry upgrades, the pollution aspect of the scam is appearing. "Carbon Tax and 'Evil Polluters'"

Its a bait and switch scam the Greenies are desperate to keep going. They know the general public are not getting it. (courtesy Goldstien ,TorSun)

CO2 is NOT a pollutant, CO, NO2 etc are. Since it is economically suicidal to attempt to control CO2 via industrial upgrades, the argument is "shifted" to pollution, which we have had some success in mitigating.
Aside from all the other faults noted with the "Tax Shift", this policy will make it impossible to attract capital or build refineries in this country anywhere. We need them to expand our economy by using the resources we HAVE.

The anti-AGW group must be carefull in never allowing the discussion regarding CO2 to include pollution. Otherwise our argument becomes dilluted and lost in the background "noise" of Carbon Taxes

Debunking the AGW cult is a top priority for Canada's economic survival

that should be NO (not NO2)

Quote of the Day:

"That is the smartest thing I have heard come out of any Ontarian.."

This is the best jpg from any Ontarian via TORedStar:
"Carbon Knievel".
Check out the helmet!!

Citoyen Dion's goose is kaput when uberleft TORedStar lampoons him.

http://www.cynasta2.com/jack/Carbon_Knievel.jpg

rob - I've read the report.

You state:"it's a matter of installing a carbon-tax and then reducing personal income taxes, corporate revenue taxes, and small business taxes."

So, how does this help the environment? That's what we are all saying; it has nothing to do with the envt; it's a tax grab, to buy votes.

There are no incentives for developing new technology, there are no incentives or low cost loans to install new technology. Nothing.

So, how does this lack of attention to developing the new technology and install it - help the environment? Hmmm?

And don't you think that the companies will simply pass on their increased operating costs (because of the taxes) on to the consumer? So, the costs of everything that is built using energy will increase. Cars, homes, food, clothing, everything.

So, there won't be any clean industries, because the govt isn't investing in developing new technology. Or in low cost loans to companies to install new technology. Instead, the pollution will continue. And costs will rise and rise and rise.

The fact that you can't see that - well, stuck on stupid is the only image I can come up with. But it's a fact. If you tax an industrial system, that tax will be passed right on to the consumer. That's how it goes.

But, Dion's agenda doesn't have anything to do with the env't. If it did, he'd invest most of that money into low cost loans and incentives to our industries to install them.

And remember, these are OUR industries. Industry isn't some Evil Demon, though most leftists, happily living with their SUVs and computers, think that Industry-is-Evil. Industry is our economic mode, and those companies and factories are Canadian built. We built them according to the legal standards and engineering codes of the time. Just because we've changed our standards doesn't mean that we throw baby and bathwater out.
We have to enable ourselves to change our industrial technology. Dion's plan doesn't do that.

That's why it's so obvious to almost all of us, that it's a scam. He's trying to find money. Anywhere. So that he can bribe the voters to vote for him.

In true Liberal fashion, his bribe is first, money, money, money. Remember Martin's election promises? I'll give you this. And that. And more of this. Billions and billions.

The second Liberal strategy is to make the voters feel Guilty. Sinful. For being 'polluters'. Oh boy, is Dion tough. He'll make those polluters pay. Humph. But those are OUR factories. So, he's attacking us. Taking our money and not assisting us to develop and install new technology. No way.

He just wants the money so he can bribe the voters to vote for him. Typical Liberal. Bribes, bribes and paper sacks of money.

ET, you don't really expect a logical response do you?
If you don't agree with Rob, you have to get out of Canada.
Stuck on stupid is putting it mildly.

I see that Louise is off her 'anger management' meds again!

No, ET, you don't get it - our aim as a society apparently is to put it to oil companies, to never be in bed with them. Ah, but those inconvenient perks in society - mass transit, automobiles, furnaces, they all use it. Enough of this shutting down of debate by sliming anyone who offers a different point of view; or worse still, hauling them in front of a phoney commission.

Most of us can agree (I hope) that in their use of carbon fuels, humans are changing this planet. Some go as far as to say we are changing our global climate. Bottom line is oil lubricates our prosperity and yes, ruins our environment. Now, other people want to share in the capitalist, middle class dream, about 350 million of them in China alone. Who is going to develop the technology (which we aren't close to yet) to replace carbon fuels? The answer is us, Canada, I mean. We need to because when the world stops using oil, we will use a significant contributory to our GDP, so we need to stay in the energy business. Government (taxpayers) will have to help, and the evil oil companies are already getting ready for the effort. The smart ones are anyway.

Some people really need to give their head a shake - they live the most mass affluent style in the history of this planet, yet think we should punish "polluters." What garbage, we're the polluters.

Surprisingly, Dion's plan says virtually nothing about any serious effort. Frankly, no party has come close on this one, and Mr Harper should put some meat behind his plans for a real push to find an alternative fuel technology. Dion's plan, does, however, have serious risks of unforeseen economic consequences, especially given the large bureaucracy required to run his new programs, almost none of them in the environment department. John Manley was asked point blank by Craig Oliver today on Canada AM what he thought of the Dion plan. He remarked that he thought it was courageous, but not crazy, as Harper has suggested. He gave two pieces of advice to Mr Dion; to not to be too sticky on the text so he has presented so far. Then Mr Manley said that he knew something about taxation (and used to know a lot more), and that Mr Dion should be wary of hidden economic traps arising out of this type of fiscal policy. I thought it was an ominous warning about fiddling in our economy at this time and space (inflationary pressures via demographic change and oil demand shocks). The Toronto-centric "national" press panel later missed Mr Manley's point completely, to my unsurprise.

Maybe that's what Mr Harper meant when we said he would be screwed. You know, Harper the economist. Oh yeah, I forgot, it's decided that carbon taxes to build day care centres will save the earth, and if Manley can't see that, he MUST be another oil shill.

Along with the rest of us.

Look, Dion is being dishonest and manipulative. That plan has nothing to do with the environment.
Our Liberal 'rob' merely repeated the blurb from the cover page of the 48 page report, "Green Shi*t'. You have to read it through to see the intellectual dishonesty and blatant manipulation.

Dion informs us the income will be 15 billion by the fourth year. He promises to return it all. Not in investment in technology or to those companies to enable them to install new technology. Nope.

In goodies to the poor. A two-earner family with two children with a total earned income of $20,000 (???) will get 2,500 back in taxes a year. Wait, Mr. Dion; that family isn't paying any taxes anyway.
A $40,000 family will get $2,000.

Now how does he explain this? He actually says that a reduction in tax rate from 15% to 13.5 is not a 1.5%reduction. Nope. It's a 10% reduction. That's intellectually dishonest. Most of us figure our tax rate, as a percentage, by reference to 100%. So, if we pay 15%, that's 15 of 100. Moving to 13.5 is a 1.5 reduction. But Dion is manipulating us. He's using 15 as if it were 100. So, 10% of 15 is 1.5.

And he further tell us that the rate reduction from 22% to 21% isn't a 1% cut. Nope. Dion's booklet actually says it's a 5% CUT!

He says he'll reduce corporate taxes by 1% within four years. Wow. Harper's 2007 budget reduced the corporate tax rate from 22.12% to 15% in four years (by 2012). Dion doesn't mention that.

Harper reduced small business from 12 to 11 in 2008.
Harper increased the lifetime capital gains exemption for small business from 500,000 to 750,000 in 2007. The first increase in nearly 20 years.

Dion doesn't mention that. Dion says he'll 'accelerate the capital cost allowance for green inventions'. That's all. Harper, in 2007, now allows manufacturers to write off capital investments in machinery, using a two year 50% capital cost allowance.

Dion says he'll reduce emissions by 20% below 1990 levels by 2020. He doesn't say how. He doesn't set targets. And since our emissions have increased by over 26% since then..how's he going to do this?
Harper's EcoAction plan, www.ecoaction.gc.ca sets mandatory targets. Mandatroy reduction by 18% by 2010. And every year after, 2%. The aim is reduction of emissions by 150 megatonnes by 2020.

Oh, and Harper doesn't mix up emissions and pollution. Dion does; he does that deliberately, because he's using Guilt and Sin to manipualte us. As Dion says: "taxing pollution and making polluters pay'. Ahh, we Canadians are evil and we must be punished.

Hmm. Do you suppose Dion is into Sadism and Masochism?

Read Dion's plan. It does nothing for emissions. Nothing for pollution. But heck, he does tell you how much you'll all get back, particularly the poor among us.

And notice the utter contempt for Canadian industry. We Canadians built our factories and industries. According to the legal standards of the day. Now, according to Dion, we are Polluters. And we must pay him, for our Sins.

The utter ignorance, the arrogance, of such statements - are incredible.

Does it do anything for Canada, for Canadian industry, for Canadians? Nope. But he sure hopes we'll fall for it and elect him. That's what it's all about. A massive scam.

"To all you loser Westerner conspiracy theorist who hate the East: get a life, get a decent rational brain, or get the hell out of the country"

I hope you're not from Toronto, Rob. It's already dangerously dumbed down with pond scum like you.

So, you believe that a Liberal will collect a new tax on everything and give the money back?

Duh.

Do humanity a favour and get the hell off the planet.

IN the west the question is not why we should go,but
why have we stayed so long?

It's all a ploy by lieberal insiders to plant a platform plank so ludicrous that it will get them defeated at the polls again. That way Brutus Ignatieff and the rest of the dagger-holders can get rid of Dion and install their boy or I should say, Pierr's boy, Justin as leader.

Librano$ are BAAaack!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v714/stevekog/LibranosBack.jpg

Bobbie Rae by writing this Carbon Tax has ensured that Dion gets removed as leader at the December convention. The real power behind Dion has been strangely quiet.

Could it be that he is now supporting Bobbie. Must have a new source of income and its not from food banks

Who paid off Dion's leadership debt? Follow the money. Always follow the money.

john v. you are right. the only way we can turn canada from the path of socialism is through violent and illegal acts. i've said it many times, 60% of canadians are socialists and have never seen tax that they don't like. we will not change this because the majority doesn't want to.

Interesting how it's "implementing a carbon tax THEN reducing personal income taxes, small business taxes, and corporate taxes. To quote Dark Helmet from Spaceballs: "When will THEN be NOW?"

"But it's a fact. If you tax an industrial system, that tax will be passed right on to the consumer. That's how it goes."

... and the consumer stops buying the product because it's too expensive.

"So, there won't be any clean industries, because the govt isn't investing in developing new technology."

... but the consumer buys clean technology because it's cheaper. Companies respond by developing more clean products to satisfy a growing market for them. Companies that don't adjust dissolve.

Basic marketing, No?

Well I'll be darned. Someone is posing as me. This is not mine: "Posted by: Louise at June 22, 2008 4:25 PM"