Lay a cable thru the Chunnel and suck EU dry.

There is one solution that seems rather obvious,
http://www.nei.org/

I see a whole bunch of Welshmen smiling in the near future. There is still an abundance of coal in them thar hills...

brydia baban brydia!

his is the way to advance, leaving Nuclear costs and waste problems behind.

http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=2012968&contentId=7019791

=TG

I'm curious Tim @ 2:15, what's that you wrote?

GEpower can offer cheaper cleaner than Nuke power

IGCC machines require a start-up fuel because of the dangers of starting on fuels that contain hydrogen. This allows many plants to begin operation on backup fuel with introduction of IGCC and synthesis gas capability phased-in at a later date.

Dual fuel capability has been developed into a standard co-firing feature so users can design plants for uninterrupted power output if syngas production is restricted, or if a plant is contemplating parallel or staged co-production for utilization of syngas.

Gepower.com/prod_serv/products/gas_turbines_cc/en/downloads/igcc.pdf

================== GePower.com

= TG

Just another banana nation with no electricity except for the elite. Soon it will be cars banned , than other commodities. England meet Mugabe land. You did all to yourselves. You sold your birthright for a pot of neo-Marxist scum. Now enjoy the fruits of your neo-Marxist paradise as we will ours when this country takes the jihad creep as well its ideological pre-determined outcome. It never ends up less than complete poverty with camps with poison gas, or bullets. Name me one it hasn’t? You thought you where different I bet, to civilized. lol This is how death cults religious or no always end. The enviro-freaks must be in heaven contemplating the de-industrialization of Briton as it becomes more green in two senses.

Oh well, won't be able to see the Islamic invasion with or without light! What will it matter?

regarding Hydrogen as the energy cure:

"All the losses with the elemental Hydrogen Economy are directly related to the
nature of hydrogen. Hence they cannot be significantly reduced by any amount of
research and development. We have to accept that hydrogen is the lightest
element and its physical properties do not suit the requirements of the energy
market. The production, packaging, storage, transfer and delivery of the gas are
so energy consuming that other solutions must be considered. Mankind cannot
afford to waste energy for uncertain benefits; the market economy will always
seek practical solutions and, as energy becomes more expensive, select the most
energy-efficient. Judged by this criterion, the elemental "Hydrogen-Economy" can
never become a reality."

http://planetforlife.com/pdffiles/h2report.pdf PG 33

More snake-oil and green noise distracting Canadians from focusing on what WE already have in abundance; oil and uranium.

Britain screwed up.

So Canada has to follow along, creating a problem we don't have, (energy available) in order to import a solution, (from Europe of all places) while paying megabucks down the road?
Thats a realistic national plan?
For who??

Canada needs to use what it has NOW. Build the refineries and nukes while we can still afford to.

Dump Kyoto. Britain wishes it had.

G

test

G @ 4:03 "test"

Haha, yes the electricity is still on and you can send emails for now. Canada isn't quite in the same sorry state as the UK, for now.

Paul gets free energy courtesy of Peter's pocket and the government,

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121055427930584069.html?mod=opinion_main_review_and_outlooks

the greens wont be happy till we are all living in log cabins with long beards containing squirrel nests and our women folk hold up their grey socks in birkenstocks held up by backcombing the hair on their boney gams.

The whole pathetic Island has been so morbidly mismanaged, can anarchy be far off?

Apparently not.

Brit "military security" is gearing up for "mass crowd control" as they foresee "flash mobs" over everything from poor services to bad weather and both food and fuel "riots" in the future.

http://www.dcdc-strategictrends.org.uk/viewdoc.aspx?doc=1

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7303846.stm

http://tinyurl.com/4yplbm

I believe we are one Liberal govt from being in the same boat as England. I have already started my own personal campaign. Every dealing I have with a govt dept is no longer just an ordeal for me. I ensure they also feel the pain. Ther are many ways. Large and small.

"They gave inspirational and challenging speeches, but no one mentioned divine guidance and no one asked for blessings on the graduates or their families.

One final speech received a standing ovation.

A solitary student walked proudly to the microphone. He stood still and silent for just a moment, and then it happened.

All 92 students, every single one of them, suddenly SNEEZED!!!!

The student on stage simply looked at the audience and said, "GOD BLESS YOU", and walked off stage.

The audience exploded into applause. This graduating class had found a unique way to invoke God's blessing on their future with or without the court's approval.

Isn't this a wonderful story? Pass it on to all your friends and GOD BLESS YOU!!! This is a true story.

It happened at the University of Maryland.

Tear those walls down!!!

Working people frequently ask retired people what they do to make their days interesting. Well, for example, the other day my wife and I went to Taunton and went into a shop. We were only in there for about 5 minutes. When we came out, there was a Policeman writing out a parking ticket.

We went up to him and said, 'Come on man, how about giving a senior citizen a break?'
He ignored us and continued writing the ticket.

I called him a Turd. He glared at me and started writing another ticket for having worn tyres. So my wife called him a shithead. He finished the second ticket and put it on the windshield with the first. Then he started writing a third ticket. This went on for about 20 minutes. The more we abused him, the more tickets he wrote.

Personally, we didn't care. We came into town by bus.
We try to have a little fun each day now that we're retired. It's important at our age

Sounds a lot like Ontario - shut down all the coal fired plants while the nukes slowly fall apart. But then as the auto industry goes belly up there is going to be a lot less need for all that power.

ah yes, the bountiful fruits of socialism. it works so well.

Sad to see, but heck there no need to shut down the still good plants , just IGNORE the EU directive.

This might explain why the commie-leftist government in Britain has been flooding the country with hundreds of thousands of third worlders as immigrants every year,decade after decade.

These third world immigrants are so used to not having electricity that they will easily assimilate into their new country.

I guess they weren't worrying about the details during the granola orgy (kyoto).

Can hardly wait until the same thing happens in Ontario. Will be able to watch Taliban Jack sit in the sun and cook his hemp and recycled sewage sludge pancakes with a magnifying glass.

I think your all missing the point of the global warming scam, It is to destroy western economies and enslave 80% of the population that survives.
By the UN standards Britian is right on course.
Maurice Strong and his gang of one world government Nazies did not ever intend this to save the planet rather they intended it to enslave the people and cull the herd.
Fear is the greatest motivator.

Just another perfect of example of bureaucrats on a power trip who have no facility in logistics or numbers.

Shut down power plants with no ability to replace the necessary power.

So how is Ontario doing today?

TG, it may have escaped your notice but the price of steam coal has tripled over the past three years. The price of metallurgical coal has increased even faster. So much for your boasting about cost advantages. And by the way, nuclear waste is not just waste, it's spent fuel that can be used again. Do you actually know anything about energy, or do you just cut and paste press releases?

Tim, yes there's coal in Wales. It's deep and expensive. In Britain, it's cheaper to import coal than it is to dig it out of deep underground deposits. It was the use of cheaper, imported coal that was instrumental in defeating the NUM strike in the early 1980s. So what you are suggesting is that Britain be put back in the hands of the militant coal miners unions that took so much effort by Thatcher and Marshall to break in the first place. Good plan, sheer genius; after winning a battle decisively let's give everything back to the losers and fight it all over again.

Brian, Britain is already the largest importer of electricity from EdF, about 20 TWh annually totaling about 6-8 per cent of Britain's electricity supply. That's the equivalent of about two large French reactors working 24/7 all year long.

I just love what is happening in the UK and Europe. They think they are so morally more advanced than North America. How long can it be before Europe disintegrates to the violence? Oh well.... you reap what you sow....at least it will be a lesson for us here in Canada and USA....keep the socialists, liberals, Democrats out of government, unless you want to end up like Europe.

So how is Ontario doing today?

www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/theeditorialpage/story.html?id=03dcba36-e8b1-4c35-875b-f9a918b46330

You know, all this talk of electricity shortfalls is interesting. Lots of governments since the 1960s have pretty much done nothing, so all those big, beautiful generating stations built back then have been carrying the whole load.

Kind of like all the airplanes, ships, trucks, tanks and whatnot our Canadian armed forces bought back in the 1960's and early '70's.

Therefore now, today, Britain (and Canada too, kids) is facing a huge shortfall in generation capacity. That means brownouts and rolling blackouts.

Given the highly electric-dependent nature of modern society, what do you think is going to happen in Britain in the next ten years? First, there will be some big-ass blackouts. Then, people will start voting for the party that makes the best promises on CHEAP ELECTRICITY.

At which point, if the EU (or Eeeeew) is still on this Greenie kick, the new Brit government will stop complying with their idiot regulations, run up the Union Jack, run out the cannons and dare 'em to do anything about it. There will then be a crash building program, probably a coal and nuke mix, and vast profits will be made by "friends" of the new gubmint party.

Or, as an outside possibility some clever bastard will finally figure out a better-than-break-even fusion method. If that happens, all bets are off, because electricity will be too cheap to meter. Go Mr. Fusion!

Today the Irish have their vote on the Lisbon Treaty, will they have the courage to say "no"? Veiled threats were uttered from Brussels last week that there will be consequences if they reject it.

http://euobserver.com/9/26299

I doubt they'll vote No because for too many people once they are herded to the socialist trough they morph into needy unprincipled sheeple. It will be interesting to see what the Irish do.

Sooner or later, it'll become clear to politicians that it's impossible to go along with the kind of draconian reductions demanded by the climate change extremists/lunatics/fascists.

We can see from this post, looking at the facts and figures, that British politicians are going to soon realize that they'll have a choice between having reliable electrical power or letting the EU run their country for them without having to suffer the consequences for stupid policies. Britain will suffer if she goes along with the whole emissions-reducing thing.

Want electricity or not? It's up to all of us.

Can we live without electricity? Oh, sure. But who wants to? Who wants to go through life wondering when the power will be available and when it won't? If there still is any, that is!

life without electricity .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esl2NNOtHQE

Al Gore on guitar.

Lorrie Goldstein, Toronto Sun - sums it all up in one small paragraph. It illustrates how easy it is to see through this shallow scam. If only one takes a few minutes to think about it.

[Here's the real question: Are we willing to play Russian roulette with each other's livelihoods, while politicians pull the trigger and arbitrarily decide the winners and losers, in hopes of "fixing" the climate, long after we're all dead, based on a theory that may or may not work, assuming things are as bad as climate hysterics predict?] LG

It is time for all Journaists to call a spade a spade.

http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Goldstein_Lorrie/2008/06/12/5850336-sun.php

If it saves only one polar bear, it will have been worth it.

The report on my imminent death is premature. I have been sloshing around in the basins on the crust for more than four billion years. I now cover nearly 71 per cent of the planet. Since the last ice age I have lifted myself out of the basin by 120 metres and scared the tribes of Noah to the higher ground. During deep time I became the universal solvent for the volcanoes and the clouds. I have taken up as much salt as required by local circumstances and sometimes give it back in hot shallows and desert areas of my world. I have given man the salt in his blood. Your CO2 output is infinitesimally small. I have absorbed as much gas as I need to maintain balance with the organic world within me and on land. The exchange is so peaceful that science calls it equilibrium. I can absorb more CO2, if the plants do not need it, and it does not give me acid imbalance. My pH will remain basic no matter what you say. These variations you measure have come and gone many uncountable times on the planet and your baseline is too small to know the truth. What you do not get is that warming of the oceans releases CO2 and other gasses from my water, while cooling my water allows me to take up CO2 in vast amounts to nestle with the other molecules in my coldest most remote realms. I can absorb all that man can produce because your impact is feeble compared to my capacity.
Please watch me with humility for you cannot change me. I am the ongoing sink for the planet, and I am huge and my heat content is beyond your estimation. Measure me here and there with your microscopes but know that I will never be that way in that place again. Open your mind to the infinite cycles of chemistry and physics and kneel on my beach. You can only hurt me by not respecting my infinite ability to change chemistry and temperature in all the corners of the seas. My CO2 feeds your plants and your plants provide all the oxygen you breathe. Your base line is infinitesimally small yet your mouth is wide open.

Ocean

What will be the tipping point for the citizens of the UK? A regression to a pre-war lifestyle? Ever increasing government control? Tension between ethnic groups? Extreme poverty?

Maybe not. Perhaps those that had any spirit have already left the country.

From the article cited by penny:

"Ireland is the only country to vote on the EU treaty and is feeling the strong pressure from the rest of Europe to secure a "Yes" vote."

In every other country the elitists have decided what the people need, without bother of recourse to a vote. Even if the Irish patriots save the other fools from the self-inflicted fate today, tomorrow the EU idiocy goes on and the elitists' plan to destroy the basis of European culture and enslave its native population continues apace.

As summum bonum said, we Canucks are only one Liberal government away from the same fate. Actually, watching Mr. Harper and Co. recent performance, we may not even need one more Liberal government.

Sum total of my sympathy for the British people: ZERO. They did this to themselves, and it is absolutely imperative that they suffer for the choices they have made. I hope that the people starving in the dark have to walk by Branson's brightly lit mansion everyday too, just so the hypocrisy is driven home that much harder.

That is my answer to all you Brits, suck it up, and try not to be so stupid in the future.

That was good stuff SumNum, may I use it ?

That's what happens when a nation yields sovereignty over domestic policy (or foreign policy for that matter) to a "union" of other nations. The fact that the looming UK energy shortfall is based on a declaration from Brussels, of all places, says it all.

Canadians should take note of this situation every time someone says we should follow any dictum of the United Nations.

I agree with Kevin: the Brits have brought this down on their own heads, the same way as they've brought cultural segregation and isolation on themselves through absolute deference to multiculturalism and PC codes.

One day, when they wake up to no electrical power, food shortages, no cars and the Muslim call to prayer blaring over the loudspeaker at the mosque on the corner, they'll realize how undone is their once proud nation.

May it never be said of Canada.

Here's whats going to happen: The people will get pushed to far, up until now there has been no sacrifice, squeeze em so they hurt a little and they will vote out and fire all these yahoos with thier wierd agendas, people just want to be left alone.

When you give Popularity Pimps absolute power over every aspect of "civil society" what do you expect. Pseudo-environmental mass hysteria has long driven the agenda of politicians and subsequent legions of bureaucrats ensuring the: narrative is reinforced, industry is co-opted, markets distorted, technology smeared, fear and loathing promoted and power entrenched. This isn't just a British phenomenon. This is the politics of leviathan.

From time to time, Great Britain produces a leader like Elizabeth I, Pitt the Younger, Churchill, and Thatcher. They could use one now.

Not just Ontario following this path of self destruction. It's BC as well.

The Socialist government in MB is sabotaging the economic future in other ways but hydro power mismanagement is part of it.

You do not need crystal balls to see into the future .
You just need to know history and look around you today!
It's very disconcerting that our Conservative government is willing to pander to these flakes who embrace the global warming cult and appear to be bought into the concept of the government as manager!

If I have to concede to the government the management of resources an infrastructure then I expect that they will do it properly and in the best interests of our economic security and physical wellbeing.

The performance of the socialist governments and their bureaucracies is far short of satisfactory.

It’s all a plot, you see they know there is an ice age coming, you cut the electricity and everyone freezes, since the English only discover central heating and indoor plumbing in the 50’s the native born will adapt faster, the rest will leave for the EU, returning England back to a stable place with bad food and good beer.

** life without electricity ?? **

Many Brits are innovative and tech - savvy.

Simple home power systems are affordable for basics like lighting, microwave, radio & TV.

Heavy demand for stove/oven, hot water, washer/dryer and the satanic dishwater is another question however.

Trends are gradual. Brits will adjust. = TG

This is all moot because even labour isn't stupid enough to shut down power stations.

And besides, they won't exist past the next election. They're gonna make Kim Campbell's two seats look like a stunning victory.

If all goes well, Ireland will do all of Europe a favour and veto the EU's end run around democracy and fascism will be averted.

But the benefits of EU membership!

Those benefits are, um ...

"This is all moot because even labour isn't stupid enough to shut down power stations."

Doesn't matter what any British Government thinks . . . the courts will invoke the LAW and the LAW is now made in Brussels.

The UK has ceded control to the Euro Common Government.

Fait Accompli, game over, done deal.

TG...

The UK is capable of providing only 60% of it's domestic food needs at the present level of energy consumption. Cheap food comes from cheap and plentiful energy.

London alone consumes better than 25% of all the resources produced domestically plus imports just for the sustenance of the population.

No matter how many energy gadgets are deployed in the UK they do not have the capacity to feed or sustain themselves.

Now do you want to start talking about the cost of manufacturing production?

Thanks to the relentless stupidity and incompetence of the liberal/socialist forces Britain is Dead!

Ratt:

Most certainly. But be careful. The Conservative Party may consider it a fining offence.

I think I will die laughing.

"Heavy demand for stove/oven, hot water, washer/dryer and the satanic dishwater is another question however.

Trends are gradual. Brits will adjust. = TG"

Here's the green agenda in a nutshell, no cooked food (meaning lots of malnutrition and disease), no hot water (just great for hygiene). As for the trends are gradual stuff, lifestyles will be ground down and impoverishment will increase irrespective of the aspirations of those being oppressed.

Brits will adjust is just another way of saying big government will ram this down your throat whether you like it or not.

Welcome to TG's stalinist world, brought to you by his Greenwar friends.

Take all those eco-wackos take them to the power plants and make them peddle bicycles hooked up to gerators and make the power since these eco-freaks want to prevent us from having cheap abundant energy

Fred

"the courts will invoke the LAW and the LAW is now made in Brussels."

To invoke a cliche, I ask: How many battalions does the EU have to enforce their law?

how many people will have to die before sanity is restored? i had another thought on this but this is adequate. all the words and all the shit does not equal action. i see no action. as an old man i guess i could kick the ass of most posters. except those with shotguns.

brussels, a sprout, shove it up your arse.

TG: "Heavy demand for stove/oven, hot water, washer/dryer and the satanic dishwater is another question however."

The EU may prevent coal fired power stations, but I don't think they can prevent people from using coal to heat their homes and stoves. Washers? The old wash tub will may come back, as will the clothesline. As for showers and baths, people should read (or at least, re-read, Orwell's "The Road to Wigan Pier" - which is available online for free, so no excuses!). Plenty of Brits, not even 100 years ago, had one bath a week, and didn't have hot running water in their homes (or central heating, either). Suddenly, old Gran will seem plenty wise to her family.

Do progressives have any idea how difficult life was for people in their grandparents and past eras? It was not like some "roughing it" for the week camp outing. Not many people, especially women, would really want to return to that life. The simpletons that are advocating this retro-life are similar to those naive "Back to Nature" communes of the hippies. Remember why they did not succeed? Because those romantic visions came crashing to reality. I have no doubt that the Gaia neophytes will quickly abandon the faith too, once the reality bites them in their spoiled butts.

A duck will have more of a chance flying around Syncrude's tailing ponds than over the skies of Britain. I can imagine there will be change in the habits of english birdwatchers as they eagerly train their binocular's skyward from the edges of wind farms: Thup, thup, thup, SPLAT!, thup, thup - "Gee Mr. Hunnybun, I think that was an adult female hen harrier! Guess that means there's only ten left now"

The Brits need to take a page from Norway. They are not EU members. Two referendum votes failed there. If they are real lucky and Ireland does the right thing they can piggyback off of that as soon as they throw Brown out.

In spite of the Yes argument that non-membership denies them the ability to shape policy which is a joke anyways.....

The No camp does not disagree, but stresses a generic lack of dialogue and the centralised nature of the EU. They believe ordinary people are not consulted within the EU process anyway. They argue that only by holding on to “complete sovereignty” can Norway protect its own interests against an elitist, centralised superstate. Dag Seierstad of the “No to the EU” organisation puts it like this: “When you move hundreds of the main decisions from the national Parliament and the national Government to Brussels - to a political superstructure, a huge, political machinery which is completely unpenetrable, incomprehensive to the ordinary citizen, the result is a devastating threat to democracy”.

www.threemonkeysonline.com/als_page2/From%20the%20outside%20looking%20in.html

Greenies being subsidized and killing birds to boot.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121055427930584069.html?mod=opinion_ma

cant the squirrel eating , beard growing , armpit braiding hippies get off the public teet.

However will the milk be frothed for their lattes? Is there a future for a windmill on the top of every Starbucks? Can't be metal, that requires electricity and carbon for refining and smelting. Can't be wood, that destroys the carbon balance. Cannot be plastic, that comes from oil. Hemp, OK, they will be hemp windmills, hand carved, that will turn a wee twizzler that will froth the milk. But the milk must be from free-range, organic cows, only to be milked by PETA-ordained priestesses, who shall sing them lullabies and make incantations to Gaia thanking for the gift. The cup, mind you, cannot be fired ceramic (carbon, again). Nor glass. Nor steel. Clay, I think, might be acceptable, but only if not taken from a stream bottom, for the fish and turtles must have clean water.

Careful what you wish for, lefties.

Is Wind Power Green?

There are many reports that purport Wind power to be an environmentally friendly source of power. Let’s dismiss the fact that it is an unreliable power source as the wind doesn’t blow all the time and therefore must be duplicated by conventional power sources from coal, natural gas, hydro and nuclear.

The press has not reported on the environmental drawbacks of wind power. If wind power was the only source of electricity for the city of Toronto, the wind turbines would take up the land mass of the province of Prince Edward Island. Lord knows how much land would be needed if the country went 100% wind power. Land that could be used for say, something like food production.

In addition, the worlds present wind turbines kill in excess of 100,000 birds each year. How many dead birds will it take to make this environmentally friendly source of power un-green.

The Few ducks that bit the dust at the Tar Sands made National CBC news for a week. How come they don't report on the 100,000 or birds that get smacked by Green Turbines.Hardly balanced reporting. But Hey anything to keep the people afraid of Global Warming is fair game..

TG sounds like Obama, who is looking increasingly beatable, BTW. His latest little gaffe, "The only problem with gas prices is that they should have risen more gradually."

I put that right up there with Dukakis's definition of take home pay "Lost Revenue Opportunity" and his pledge to hire ten thousand new IRS agents.

Or Mondale's "Let me say this, I *will* raise your taxes."

They had one smart one, Bill Clinton, who never promised out loud to raise taxes, and then pretended to regret it after he did it.

What's good about this article is, beside the writer, Booker, is that it is in the Daily Mail, a Main Stream Media, widely read newspaper. Yes, they still read them in the UK.

The rising gas (petrol) prices in the UK has suddenly made people aware of the cost of energy, of the importance of abundant and cheep energy and the costs of [strike]going whacky[/strike] fighting the climate.

TG @2.45

There is nothing new here, only maybe etechnology improvements. Coal gasification was used in britain for a hundred years. When you watch the opld workign class" movies of the British from the fifties & sixities: Saturday night and sunday morning etc. you will see the "GAs Works" in the background.

This is not revolutionary. Coal and oil is abundandant; the eniros and politicians prevent us from using it; that's why we have high prices.

There is enough oil, coal and uranium, even without breeder technology, to last the world a very long time - by which we finally get fusion working.

Revnant Dreams @2.51 You are on the nail with the "banana nastion".

A UK parliamnetary committee was planning the issuing of "carbon" ration cards to the populace. Of course, the IMPORTANT PEOPLE will be chauffeur driven and flown around the world to all sorts of exotice places for yet another discussion of carbon rationing.

I believe we can agree that politicians, as well as environmentalists, scientists and just plain ordinary (guillible, brainwashed, leftist, etc.) folks, haven't been thinking things through, haven't been asking, "Exactly what will it take to make the likes of Al Gore and David Suzuki happy? How will we suffer? How much will it cost us?".

The Chicken Littlists claim that they've figured it all out, that we'll actually prosper like never before if we proceed as they demand. But the Chicken Littlists never, never, never make the case, never present us with the proof that they've got it "all worked out", with the technology, the financial cost, etc. I say they're lying again, and dare anyone to prove otherwise.

Come on, Chicken Littlists, exactly how are we going to effect such incredible, staggering GHG emissions reductions and still have the same amount of electricity, the same transportation ability and so on, without going bankrupt and ending up in another Great Depression and perhaps being incapable of running our militaries, which is what our enemies would love to see happen, as they obviously would love to be able to take over the free world by force, which they cannot, for now, at least, do?

OH, and let's not ever forget that the IPCC itself says that its hypothesis is declared with only 90% confidence, meaning that they concede that they've proven nothing. So why is the world carrying on as if it's proven that we're destroying Earth by consuming energy and so on?

We're most likely being had. And I say this with 90% confidence. May I have a consensus here? Our consensus, our 90% confidence level, to counter the Sacred, Holy Consensus of the "IPCC", a frightening creature of the corrupt, criminal United Nations.

If it saves only one polar bear, it will have been worth it.

HAHAHA Mr. Meaty Mystery, this is worth an entry on Tim Blair's site, or Paco Entrpises.

To RL: And don't forget that in order to make a windmill more efficient, you need battery or diesel backup. Diesel engines spew Carbon Dioxide, Lead acid batteries spread PBO2 in the environment. And let's not forget the birds and the ducks who get caught in the impeller. They quack up every time!!

And the fossil fuel energy to make the concrete, smelting energy for the steel towers and blades , the energy for frequent maintainance, weather damage, .. and then do it all over again in twenty years when junk, .. no wind, too much wind, ice, ..

No wonder even the experts on windpower, the Dutch, canned them when hydro and electric motors came along.

SpurwingPlover has the answer, but I'll add that supervisers be given bullwhips to keep them peddlin.

And then there's the absolutely moronic John McCain. At a time like this with gas and oil prices going through the roof he stamps his little feet and swears by Goebbel's Warming.

What a twit - 75% of Americans want to drill for more oil and John McCain says no! How stupid can the man be? This is a gift from the Gods for him if he runs with it. Drill for oil, build refineries, streamline gasoline production, and build nuclear plants.

Yet he's too stubborn and Mavericky to admit just maybe he's wrong. If he just grabbed hold of this gift and ran with it D'OhBama would have nuthin! Instead Maverick sucks up to the Greenies - pathetic!

RL,

"There are many reports that purport Wind power to be an environmentally friendly source of power. Let’s dismiss the fact that it is an unreliable power source as the wind doesn’t blow all the time and therefore must be duplicated by conventional power sources from coal, natural gas, hydro and nuclear."

Actually most wind farms clock in at around 50 square miles per 1.5 Gigawatts, and in the case of Ontario's average household consumption, 1 million homes can be powered by 1 - 1.5 gigawatts of power. So you're essentially worried that we'll be missing, in a worst case scenario 5 gigawatts of consumption, or 625 square kilometers.

PEI is 5,683.91 km, and so we're talking about 10% of PEI being covered by wind farms to produce power for the city of Toronto. A bit of an exaggeration to say ALL OF PEI!!!, especially since PEI is only 0.6% the landmass of Ontario, so we're talking about 10% of 0.6% of Ontario, or really 0.06% of Ontario!

"In addition, the worlds present wind turbines kill in excess of 100,000 birds each year. How many dead birds will it take to make this environmentally friendly source of power un-green."

This is a common myth that is replayed and replayed. Google it and read for 5 seconds before you make up random facts. The blades on anything built in the last 20 years move extremely slowly, it is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE for almost any birds to be killed on wind farms.

Now, I don't think wind power is the answer at all, but I think that the winning combo by far is Nuclear in addition to Wind Power. Taking advantage of the jetstream crossing our nation in addition to our abundant uranium reserves being used in fast breeder reactors can literally be almost termed a renewable power cycle.

"This is a common myth that is replayed and replayed. Google it and read for 5 seconds before you make up random facts. The blades on anything built in the last 20 years move extremely slowly, it is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE for almost any birds to be killed on wind farms."

by Jebus

I work in close proximity to some of these windmills on a regular basis. The tips of those vanes are moving at least 100 mph on a windy day. I tried to do the math accurately, but it's hard to find specs on the dimensions.

I found reference to Alberta bats being killed by windmills. Bats eat tons of mosquitos, and I hate to lose them.

Canada can make electricity from these resources:

Canda nuclear waste managment we have lots of them can be used for this purpose

solar energy using sun from west end more sunny

use water like Niagara falls and too many rivers in Canada

others resources coals etc...

save energry first

garbage waste managment in Canada is growing
very fast

rather than buy form US we can sell to US in future since Canda is bigger and able to made it happend nad put some land to do this project for at least 5 to 10 years

haye- We're already selling energy to the US in the form of oil from the west, and hydro electric in Quebec. Both sources have damaged the environment. The James Bay project was definitely not environmentally friendly.

The only argument for moving away from oil is the "theory" that CO2 is causing catastrophic warming, and that will soon be debunked.

[A well designed typical three-bladed rotor would have a tip speed ratio of around 6 to 7.]

http://www.reuk.co.uk/Wind-Turbine-Tip-Speed-Ratio.htm

@ 40 mph wind speed, the blade tip speed would be 40 X 6 = 240 mph

Think you could dodge someting coming at you from above at almost 400 kph ?? Dive bomber.

RW, I read you at 6:33,

In your last sentence, the grouping of energy sources, be sure to include various flavours of natural gases.

In the seventies the common knowledge was that we had enough natural gas for 200 years of world needs.

Now, because Serazin gas and others are riding the oil energy price wave, you never hear loose talk like that any more.

Look into *Kitimat* [Google], and you will discover football field sized LNG tankers are shipping to pipeline heads on the California coast.

No shortage, just bottlenecks. = TG

RW, I read you at 6:33,

In your last sentence, the grouping of energy sources, be sure to include various flavours of natural gases.

In the seventies the common knowledge was that we had enough natural gas for 200 years of world needs.

Now, because Serazin gas and others are riding the oil energy price wave, you never hear loose talk like that any more.

Look into *Kitimat* [Google], and you will discover football field sized LNG tankers are shipping to pipeline heads on the California coast.

No shortage, just bottlenecks. = TG

how about nuclear energy change to electricla energy

and how about solar energy uisng sun energy change to electicial enegry

I read some article about nuclear waste can use in land, or sea or air and they can used those waste turn to electicical but they have hazardous

then only need more research about it

made some nuclear facilty under water not in land that if some think happend nobody get hurt Canada has too manybig seas aroudn them to do more research under water facilty

I even saw some small country like DUbai made hotel under water since they do not have land
and their construction of them are Canadian

if we hired those Candaian constructore to build under water nucler facilty we can made more progerss to do some research an that reserach do not harm peopel live in land
again I just think this within a second
I am not uptodate of this topic
need more research about it

use brain of those smart guys and girls in univeristy and fund them good money and made security t make sure do not illegal usage of nucler wast then

if exisitng damage the energy need ask phd studend of Univeristy of Toronto environment group in mechnial, electrical and chemical engineering rather than play with bugs doing nothing seat and think and find solution for it

and governmnt give them funding to fast their research then

I do not know this topic too well I just heard about it

Posted by: dp at June 12, 2008 8:28 PM

** I found reference to Alberta bats being killed by windmills. Bats eat tons of mosquitos, and I hate to lose them. **

DP, You may have noticed a tremendous drop off of insect numbers in the last few years.

The chemical and pesticide companies are so poisonous that insects are really in jeopardy.

Take the massive honey and bumble bee die-off. No easy way to bring them back because they have about 20 various fatal plagues, not just one to correct.

Places in China where orchard workers have to pollinate blossoms with feathers attached to long poles.

Have 3M and Dupont etc. gone too far?

Windmills killing bats may be the insect re-balance we need, just in time.= TG

Kate's right - ignore them and they will move on. Inevitable. Enough rope, will hang self.

YouTube video, some serious comedy;

George Carlin - Saving the Planet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eScDfYzMEEw&feature=related

I try to stay away from this hatred but it's difficult.

"the greens wont be happy till we are all living in log cabins with long beards containing squirrel nests and our women folk hold up their grey socks in birkenstocks held up by backcombing the hair on their boney gams."

Katherine throws a bit of chum to attract the sharks and increase the hits on her site. Shameless.

Jebus: "Actually most wind farms clock in at around 50 square miles per 1.5 Gigawatts, and in the case of Ontario's average household consumption, 1 million homes can be powered by 1 - 1.5 gigawatts of power. So you're essentially worried that we'll be missing, in a worst case scenario 5 gigawatts of consumption, or 625 square kilometers."

Once again, a little lesson in elementary arithmetic is required. I don't know where Mr. Jebus's figure of 50 sq mi/1.5 GW comes from, since he conveniently cites no references, so I found the following real life example:

The Nysted Offshore Wind Farm off Denmark has 72 turbines in a 24 sq km area (just less than 10 sq mi), with a peak generating output of 165.5 MW. Simple multiplication suggests that a 50 sq mi would have a peak generating output of about 900 MW, or 60% of Mr. Jebus's figure. Please note this is an offshore site, where wind speeds are typically higher and more regularly sustained than over land.

However, as any first year engineering student knows, peak power output does not equal average power output. The Nyvesk website notes that their farm provides 600 GW-hours of electricity each year. That's 1.65 GW-hours per day on average. But, 24 hours at 165.5 MW should yield 3.9 GW-hours, so in fact the Nyvesk wind farm actually delivers about 40% of its rated peak power. And please note that these are actual observed figures from a working wind farm, not theoretical calculations. Since they don't post figures for hourly fluctuations, assume the power output is equal for each hour: 1.65 GwH/24 = 68.75 Mw.

Further: the average Ontario home uses about 860 kwH per month, or about 28.7 kwH/day. But, at night, in most houses, only the refrigerator and possibly the A/C is running, so it's fair to estimate that 24 kwH is used during 18 hours, for an average of 1.3 kw. This gives us a figure of just over 52,000 homes electrical needs being met from our 10 sq mi offshore wind farm. Since Ontario has just under 5 million households (and some businesses still operate at night), we would need one hundred of these farms to supply Ontario's household needs. That would take up 1,000 square miles, or just under 50% of the 2,184 sq mi of PEI's land mass. And, as I noted, these figures are from an offshore wind farm, not a land based one, where wind speeds are much lower and not as sustained, and thus output is lower and more variable. Ocean wind speeds are around 9 m/s; land speeds rarely top 6 m/s. Since power density is proportional to the cube of wind speed, ocean winds provide more than 3 times as much potential power as land winds. So, the original post that it would take all of PEI converted to a wind farm to meet Ontario's household needs seems to be optimistic! In fact, it would probably take all of PEI and a good chunk of New Brunswick to do so.

21st century London –
The sound of a muted bell tolls ominously off the dark murky waters of the Thames, as fog rolls thickly through the ancient streets of White Chapel borough. Figures lurk in shadowy corners hidden from the candlelit street lamps, as “Jack” the Mohammedan raper waits to collect his uncovered infidel…………………..

Bravo Kevin !

do not worry about birds go to birdy foods from Dollarama and food basic supermaket and drop them in park and they will survive the birds
watch geography channel or Geography managzine i watched it once based on differen birds you can buy differen animal birdy foods

even Geography channle said about even kind of bird and how educate people to save the birds and planets but you must have timeand love the environemtn and love the bird

but I bleive this must job of government to feed teh wild animal and wild birds with right funding to save teh environment not public since public can interfer to casue some animal or bird get excess which is get harmful than save the enivironment means food for animal in see in jungle and parks should provide by government by some real porportional to save and balance it all

i do not like Roccon in city they must keep them outside city they can be harmful for people and small animals

again as usual off topics

I do not like those group knock your door for save energy they are tricky to me increase teh price today to save tommorrow

how about change electrical equipment to nonelectrical one tell engineering built one
that all those work with no eleticity

builte electcial compresor to change unit of electical unit to 100 time more energy built one if you do not have one

chang 120 to 220

waht I mean if we hae equipment can change one unit of electrical to get increase that energy to 100 times more we do not need to built more resouces we acclerate and increae the base to more energy I am not sure we have this mad eyet or not

most famrer in case tehyloose teh eletricity they have some engine to give them temportay eletricity made the equipment upgrade it to bigger factory
I do not know electricity but electrical and mechnicla and chemicla must work with envioromental group or may mor group together tobuit this project to one plan work can ot damage otehrs

or change existing one all need research and continuous research never ended one to fix the old one and built the new project to back existing one
Canada are poor in science import from Russia and middle east more scientict brainto Canada they may help studnet upgrade

Kevin, Carlin would be uncomfortable that you would risk lumping all those turbines into one massive project rather than dozens of scattered independent and thus more reliable power sources. = TG

And hundreds and hundreds more miles of transmission lines to connect the scattered propellers.

Some new and reliable and feasible forms of energy production may yet come. Perhaps wind, solar, ect will be commonplace some day. But, now, without subsidies - what is being pushed on us, is questionable.

TG:

The only Carlin I know is George Carlin. Who you talkin' 'bout?

And of course, I wasn't advocating building a huge wind farm; just showing how it really isn't feasible except for marginal supply. Note that the 10 sq mi Nysted farm produces 600 GwH per year; the Pickering nuclear plant - which occupies a fraction of that space - produces over 15 Terawatt-hours per year, or about 25 times as much.

I love that the last line of the article says this crisis is "as terrifying" as any the Brits have ever faced. The insinuation being that this is equal or worse to the prospect of being occupied by the Nazis.

Indeed.

I bait and only catch one. come on TG. admit to the beard at least.Im counting on Gerald to admit to birkenstocks with socks.

I try to stay away from this hatred but it's difficult.

"the greens wont be happy till we are all living in log cabins with long beards containing squirrel nests and our women folk hold up their grey socks in birkenstocks held up by backcombing the hair on their boney gams."

Katherine throws a bit of chum to attract the sharks and increase the hits on her site. Shameless

Cal2,

I wouild never tolerate a beard,. . (again).

Had one in the RCN while in the far north.

My feelings are not too solid on windfarms yet I try to balance expert Kevin with Billionair$ T. B. Pickens who decides to invest in the world*s biggest windfarm.

I respect Kevin and yet there*s no discounting Pickens.

Kevin, when windfarms occupy non-navigable shallow deltas, do they take up less arable land than Pickering?

Windfarms, Tidal-generation, NG-gen, Nuclear, thermal, clean-coal tech, Hydrogen-plant,Solar, Hydro, others. It*s always a mix.

Nothing stands alone in energy generation. = TG

BTW, TG, nobody said you were concously agitiating for us to go back and live in the kind of serfdom the enlightenment brought us out of, just that these are the consequences of the policies you advocate. Just stating that you don't intend something does not automatically prove that it would not be the consequence of your proposals.

I don't want to live without electricity, whatever your intentions for how I should live. Windmills do not generate neatly in concert with demand. Never will.

I guess I should clarify, shutting down what works now without having viable alternatives in place, then saying we simply need to adjust is nothing more than the kind of enviro-nazi-ism that does more harm than good to your cause.

Kind of like Obama saying that he only regrets that gas prices rose so quickly, not that they rose.

Tim in Vermont,

Of course I expect everyone to line up behind me, install roof solar, or balcony solar, if you rent.

Then install a wind generator on the corner of the balcony and feed the works to 10, 12v cells and a converter.

Then cook everything by microwave and avoid using the stove, the washer dryer, baseboard heaters, hot water tank and let me know how it goes.

Many of us on Vancouver Island would be wise to have an alternate to BC Hydro.

Developers are going nuts building complexes here, trusting that adequate water and power will *just happen* while protesters south of Vancouver are trying to stop the new essential V.Isle. Xmission lines.

The first company that sells the *efficient home power plant* out of Canadian Tire will make a killing. = TG

PS:
That*s an energy system, not a Honda generator. = TG

TG:
I guess you've never heard of 'economy of scale', not only for the kW/$ invested but for overall environmental impact as well?

Kelly,

brydia baban brydia!

In English is "Burn Baby Burn" or at least it is according to the English to Welsh translator I used...

My apologies for the delay in responding. The fishies were calling and I have no interweby at the cabin.