Damn. Damn-it-all to hell. I just visited Kansuckyou's sight. PO going in for new work computer right now. This one has been irretrievably screwed.
Aren't we all so glad the Religion of Pukes is sooooo tolerant?

Excellent point made. Good thing the HRC can*t act retroactively.

They would have to call Sir Winston Churchill onto the carpet for writings very similar to Rushdie*s. = TG

I got one thing out of Mike Duffy on Adler today.
It's over. Warren, Dion, the Liberanos, the HRCs. all are dust.
Harper majority, Liberals wiped out, socialists disgraced. Or it really is over.

ZING !!

ZING !!

Can't post over at the urinal photographer's place.

Of course Liberal Party hacks would like MP Keith Martin canned - for being too reasonable.

Doctors !? No way !! We all know a HR panel of party hacks is far more qualified than a surgeon when it comes to patient care.

Can't post over at the urinal photographer's place.

This is fun watching the hrc's exposed for the corrupt slimey thing they are. It won't be long now until the hrc's are fully dismantled. Kinsella's nazi hunting days will soon be over. He latched on to the hrc ship, and he is going down with it.

Why is the apostate to be executed in Islam?

Q: As a non Muslim, I find myself Intrigued and attracted to your faith. However, I find it difficult to comprehend how a man can be sentenced to death for speaking( Salman Rushdie). I would have thought that we as humans do not have that right to make those decisions, only god can?

**************
A: ......In conclusion, the answer is that Allaah is the One Who revealed this religion and enjoined it. He is the One Who ruled that the one who enters it and then leaves it is to be executed. This ruling does not come from the Muslims’ ideas or suggestions. As this is the case, then we must follow the ruling of Allaah so long as we are content to accept Him as our Lord and God.

May Allaah help us and you to do that which He loves and which pleases Him. We thank you once again.....

www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/20327

JM, this is the focal point of religion that always amazes me. If your god, allah, is so powerful and all knowing then why doesn't he himself kill you for crossing his laws. Oh no, it is for his followers to "keel you" as they are his servants and know exactly what this invisible and unresponding god thinks and are acting on his behalf.

islam is truly the religion of death and we are fools for allowing its followers to flood the west. In yesterday's news the 4 most popular boy's name are muslim ones in Naples and the town leaders are worried. Mark Steyn was absolutely right in his demographic projections.

fortunately our life spans are quite short. the islam thing has been going on for 1400 years and will be going on for 1400 more and all of us who rail against this evil cult will no doubt die a natural death. there will be many who will have to fight physically and it may come to that here. what would you do if you had to kill to survive and live free?

what would you do if you had to kill to survive and live free?

Easy, live free or die!
bruce

As much as I disagree with Warren K on this issue you need to take his using seriously, in the sense that you watch what an opponent does.

This position is a difficult one to hold because the cheap point is made so easily. The cheap point being that nasty speech is something the majority of people never do, or think. So the cheap and easy point is that you agree with them.

He has been pushing that line, and I wouldnt be surprised if they went on radio with some of their defenders funding them.

However the point the Commissionista's and Tribunalists and Thought Controllers want have trouble defending is their violations of legal rights and protections, often called human rights, in pursuit of their quarry.

For the life of me I dont get why Warren isnt focussed on salvaging the objective rather than trying to salvage a process he himself has admitted is broken.

I guess when you are paid to do something you do that rather what you believe. How very Punk of him.

Yesterday on Mike Duffy's program, Joy McPhail (former BC NDP leader) said that the Human Rights case was "not resonating at all in B.C." She was obviously very uncomfortable being asked to comment because it was the BC NDP government that brought in the Human Rights Tribunal/Committee and appointed a lesbian activist as the chairman.

Yesterday on Mike Duffy's program, Joy McPhail (former BC NDP leader) said that the Human Rights case was "not resonating at all in B.C." She was obviously very uncomfortable being asked to comment because it was the BC NDP government that brought in the Human Rights Tribunal/Committee and appointed a lesbian activist as the chairman.

Kinsella's website still lists the totalitarian mass murder Lenin as one of his heroes which strongly suggests to me that he hates Canada.

abcd

The Bolshevik revolution was a kangaroo court that murdered 15-20 million ethnic Orthodox Christian Russians lead by Lenin,Trotsky and others. Now you understand the sock puppet better.

I can only assume libertarian free speechers must be utterly disillusioned over the Harper government's decision not participate in "Durban II" for fears it will again degenerate into a public hatefest. Funny though I haven't heard many condemning this as a reprehensible attack on freedom of expression by our conservative government. I guess publicly spewing hatred best suits right wing libertarians when white people are the perpetrators. Will none of them stand up for a Palestinian's right to freely express his hatred of Jews?

I guess not. In their warped logic, like their blind faith in "the invisible hand" of the market, Reason will ultimately prevail in the marketplace of unregulated free expression, but since they construct the Muslim as barbaric and not capable of Reason, then the unlimited right of expression should not be extended to him. Or is this already going too deep into the twisted logic? In truth they may well be guided simply by visceral reactive hatred. If I'm wrong, then they should condemn the Harper government for boycotting the conference on the grounds that we wouldn't approve of what we'd hear there.

Intelligent people, such as Stephen Harper, have no "fears" "Durban II" "will again degenerate into a public hatefest", it IS a public hatefest.

Ignorant lefties may want to chat with any and all, but rational intelligent people recognize when it is utterly inappropriate and futile to sit down at certain tables. In fact, acknowledging their existance gives legitimacy to the underserving. So calling it a "reprehensible attack on freedom of expression by our conservative government" would be really stupid.

Also, by the way, faith in "the invisible hand" of the market is not "warped logic" or "blind faith", it is crystal clear and rational, supported by abundant factual data. Calling it "warped logic" or "blind faith" would be really stupid.

"Really stupid", "really stupid", do you see a pattern developing here Mr Stewart?

Bill Stewart - no one is stopping you from participating in Durban II, so I fail to see the freedom of expression issue. The fact that a rational government has refused to give legitimacy to a raving mob of hate-filled morons shows moral fibre, something the left does not possess in its meek surrender to the forces of hate for fear of offending.

And for what it's worth, the free market of ideas is working well - intelligent people are staying away from repugnant ideas.

Stewart types: "I guess publicly spewing hatred best suits right wing libertarians when white people are the perpetrators. Will none of them stand up for a Palestinian's right to freely express his hatred of Jews?"

It was my understanding that Palestinians considered themselves "white". I have a book right here, written by a Palestinian immigrant to the USA, where he casually refers to himself as a "white man". It is only the racist and fascist political left who are obsessed with racial categories, warping and twisting race, constantly raising race as an issue, to serve their political purposes.

"Footnote:
[1] I'm stumped. What child's toy goes best with "Danny Pearl was not a documentary"?"

The Behead-Me-ElMo?

Kinsella probably hasn't noticed the overwhelming support for the reform of the HRCs especially from the liberal left rights crowd. Too busy trolling for photos in boys washrooms.

Bill Stewart, neither Canada, the Harper Government nor the Conservatives are IN ANY WAY censoring or preventing the hatemongers from spewing their venom...therefore, their freedom of speech is NOT being infringed upon.

Canada, the Harper Government and the Conservatives are doing what anyone can and should do when faced with speech they are offended at: they refuse to listen to it and condemn it as bigotted and hateful. Please note that they HAVE NOT taken the UN to a Human Rights Commission to shut them up.

Get a clue.

"Footnote:
[1] I'm stumped. What child's toy goes best with "Danny Pearl was not a documentary"?"

The pregnant widow barbie doll.

"It's over. Warren, Dion, the Liberanos, the HRCs. all are dust."

Like hell they are! Don't indulge in wishful thinking and delude yourself that everyone else agrees with you.

With Barack Obama possibly the next U.S President, Libera/NDP supporters are going to be working fiendishly hard to create a North American utopia.

We had best prepare for a bitter, nasty fight, and make damned sure we get every single conservative we know to support Harper next election.

To those disappointed Conservative voters, I'd say, if you're disappointed in the current Conservative government, consider the alternative, and if THAT doesn't give you nightmares, nothing will.

I am not allowed to comment on Kinsella's site. He heavily sensors comments, so you can imagine what that place would look like of let everyone speak freely about what he says.

But then, he is not for freedom of speech under any circumstances is he? He is a thin-skinned control-freak with nothing left to control. I am enjoying watching him slip further and further into oblivion as he should.

He is a 'waste of skin' and I love when Kate states on her blog. I am sure she is causing at commie bastard a stomach ache. I anticipate the day when he finally vanishes completely in the quicksand of irrelevant Liberalism.

The Islamic countries participating in the hate fest, 'Durban II', have rejected the UN's universal declaration of human rights. They preach the gospel of their prophet and the Quran that Jews are the sons of apes and pigs. They preach Mohammad's words that the last days will not come until the Muslims have murdered all the Jews.

You are a filthy racist Mr. Stewart, if you agree to participate in any forum on so-called 'human rights' with monsters that abide by an ideology of hate like that.

Hey, Bill, Harpers absence from the notorious organized hatefest at Durban II won't effect the international press coverage. It's going to be there without or without Harper. So, how's Harper keeping Canadians from hearing anything from Durban?

I guess publicly spewing hatred best suits right wing libertarians when white people are the perpetrators. Will none of them stand up for a Palestinian's right to freely express his hatred of Jews?

Could anything be more moronic than a plea for equality of hate and a level playing field?

What poor Bill overlooks is that it is very difficult for the average white guy hater to reach parity with his Palestinian hater counterpart. He can't easily get grant money for suicide belts and rocket launchers. He can't deduct them under capital depreciation on his income taxes. Zoning laws are another hurdle. Home Depot is useless when the equipment needs repair. And, then, there's the social aspect, no one at the neighborhood bar will be cheering him when he make a direct hit on a school or pizza parlor. So, Bill, that's probably why there are, well, zero, white guy haters on a parity with Palestinians haters. Sorry, we let you down.

"Ass-kickers" like him have over-developed egos that will not permit them to ever admit they were wrong. They just cannot do it. I put David Suzuki and Al Gore in the same category. Stubborn as hell, they will not give an inch even though they look like fools and the evidence is staring them in the face.

Kind of like the Fonze who could not say "Sorry". Only Warren isn't that cool.

Patrick Kinsella is in deep sh.. er quicksand here in B.C. as per the early CBC news.

These Kinsella*s seem to gain prominence through messing up in public view. = TG

I wouldn’t break out the Champaign and celebrate the demise of the sock puppet to early. He will be a thorn for some time. He has some many connected friends and let’s say share in the same goals. There are two competing camps in the world today who seek world domination. One is Islam to make the world into a Caliphate. The other a world government through Marxism. The depressing part is western European democracy is being torn to shreds by these two camps. I won’t say who the other camp is but our communist sock puppet has already given you a few clues. One was his admiration for Lenin and the other was the video he had on his web site “kill the white man” History is written by the victors. It would be wise for conservatives not to put all there eggs into one basket and look at past history a little more closely.

The Behead-Me-ElMo?
Posted by: Sean

Heh, yep and I'll wager their pick a of representative 'toy' would be a barbie doll dressed as a hooker - or a hollywierd and or some tv sleazy type (- much the same to me...so take 'yer pick...) saying "I'm sorry I hurt your feelings" as her head pops offs.

Perfect toy for the ROPers that want us (western woman) all to hide ourselves or be killed if we don't conform to THEIR beliefs.

A method of defense and at the same time, exposure of the HRC's. Afterall, the HRC trials are nothing more than a stage.

Your Honour,

If, hypothetically speaking, I were to say that:

“Muslims are the vilest of animals…”
“Show mercy to one another, but be ruthless to Muslims”
“How perverse are Muslims!”
“Strike off the heads of Muslims, as well as their fingertips”
“Fight those Muslims who are near to you”
“Muslim mischief makers should be murdered or crucified”

Would that not be considered the vilest of hate speech, inciting violence and murder?

Then why have you and your Canadian human rights cohorts allowed this hate literature to pour into Canada? Not only that, you are allowing it to be preached everyday and taught to children. Furthermore, this hate literature has been proven to incite violence, rape and murder throughout history, to the present day.

The hate speech in question is contained in the Quran.

Sura (8:55) - Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve

Sura (48:29) - Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves

Sura (9:30) - And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah... Allah (Himself) fights against them. How perverse are they!

Sura (8:12) - I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them

Sura (9:123) - O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness

Sura (5:33) - The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement

Is it any wonder that you and your so-called tribunals are anything but defenders of human rights? That you are in fact violating human rights and the charter? That you are indeed supporting an ideology that is blatantly racist, bigoted and that incites people to violence?

At that point, leave the room and seed the video to the internet.

---------

On another note, I wonder if Steyn will take Elmasry and the sock puppets to real court, accuse them of hate, slander and libel that has caused death threats against himself and his family? I wonder.

To the commenter regarding Palestinians and hate speech... of course a Palestinian can speak freely.

An exploding ball-bearing pack, however, is not "speech". Are we clear on that?

why you insist to change law of Islam and talk and made them angry
why you are enjoy this?

on other hand Muslim think you are
bunch of adult XXX movie watcher
and your woman sleep with too many men before marriage
and you have too many affair not pay your child support
and you are bunch of drunker

all of you in opposite with Muslim culture
why not let them go their way and you do all above said

why you like to talk about Mohamad their prophet and their Islam and Muslim and ther holy book and made htem upset

just leave Muslim alone
you go and sleep near beaches and watch your women

you go your way and they go other way
complet seperae
we even like to built the buss
like Muslim in back and non Mulim in front

becausee muslim not like to talk to you at all
becaused Muslim not like you do not get it!!!
do not talk about 3 things:

Mohamad( or other propeht of god) - Isalam( Muslim) - holy book of Quran( soreh)

most of you in this blogs are not even practice Jewish or christ god as well

I can promise mose you not go to church even

then leave Muslim pray god
at the end of day all thing done by Muslim
for god lover
you are not god lover
peopel who love god not bother other human being

Muslim and NonMuslim are so different in practice
but all religion are similar in main frame

do not wake up extremist since in each relgion we hav extremist

some poeple love god and think god is order to belive Mohamad and you disobey Mohamad and they can not handle your abuse in your blogs

jsut leave Muslim alone go find other topic enjoy your days
at least let peope are not extemst are respct you and come in office and say hello

the environement you will create
in soon Muslim not even say hello to nonMuslim
then stop it.

"do not talk about 3 things:

Mohamad( or other propeht of god) - Isalam( Muslim) - holy book of Quran( soreh)"

Mohammed. Islam. Quran.

Shove it.

Notice that lib WK did not address the issues that Macleans, steyn, Coyne, Levant are fighting for - freedom, security, quality of life, freedom of speech, freedom of expression ?

Nope - just spin it, twist it, use it as a tool(ad) to get the libs back in power. It is how they play the game. He has even bragged as much - is the reason libs are good at winning.

Compare that attitude with the bigness of MP Keith Martin.

HRC 13, a useful lib spin tool.

Same for sponsorship.
Same for Quebec separatism.
Same for religous schools.
Same for wage and price controls.
Same for global warming.
Same for NEP.
Same for gun control.
Same for harm reduction centres.

As stand alone issues - loosers, without a compliant media.

It's very simple, haye. If you don't like the way we do things here in Canada, go home. Just go home. Everyone will be happy then.

RM

Canada never did such things as I witness so long
Canadian usually are famous for nice and kind and polite people

this hidden potential energry taht try to get themselves shape in Canada is recently under people as we see pay people to made thos story

this is my home I do not need to go else wher
if you do not like humran right commision
and if you do not like disrimination law in Canada
it is better you go
sicne you are the one ask in court explain why you siad those hate crime against Muslim not
me?

may be the good idea is this if people notlike Canada law and flag and righ for Muslim in Canada
they are the one must leave Canada

as we can see most of you in blog saying
we are shame of our country I saw at least 4 people said that

then you better go and find new place to live to give freedom to say wih no limit
in Canada every thing has limit

you do your job we do ours
not like step back
not like do not talk and close your mouth
not like do not write about it
as simple as it is
as Muslim agreed to stay and not care what you are doing here

we have freedom with some limit and you have freedom with some limit
do not interfer in ours
we do not dam care waht you are doing

god can choose who did the right and who should go to leave go to Satan way

Haye,

ESL classes.

Please

Thank You.

irwin, I think it is very important that Mark Steyn loses. The worst outcome for Canada is for the tribunal to acquit him with calculated phoney utterances that they've examined their past errors and have reformed themselves. The Liberals vested in keeping the CHRC will sigh with relief, the press will wither away as they only have the staying power of a few news cycles, and the CHRC can return to the shadows and bide their time.

I'm betting they will acquit Steyn with nuanced admonitions to the effect that, although he is a filthy racist, their hands are tied. I wouldn't be surprised if behind the scenes Liberal politicians that want the CHRC to stay in place aren't pressuring them to acquit.

I probably shouldn't, but... In a free society we are allowed to talk about many things. We're free to talk about our faith, or lack of it. We're free to criticise the Catholic church, or the Mormon church, or any of a host of churches. We're free to criticise our neighbors' faith,or lack thereof, or the impact of his or her faith on society, whether that impact be perceived as good or bad. And the subjects of our observations or criticism are free to respond. If our observations make them angry or hurt, well, too bad. Deal with it. Sometimes criticism is unfair, sometimes not. If unfair, it should be responded to with reason and facts, not by running to the state and crying foul. That will only bring a world of hurt to you, as those who succumb to such weakness will open themselves to the scorn of a free society. Freedom is not always pretty, and many find freedom a little chaotic and scary. My suggestion to Muslims who find the freedoms in this country offensive or frightening, is to simply look elsewhere for a home. There are places in this world where you will feel much more at home than you will here, and you may as well raise your family there as here. It is ingenuous, and goes against some of the most basic tenets of your own faith, to accept the hospitality of our culture while struggling to weaken the very freedoms that make it worthwhile. It is ungracious at best, deceitful at worse, and evil at the worst. In the end, many Muslims are asking us to make real sacrifices simply so that they can feel comfortable doesn't work for us. There's far too little "give" in the give-and-take, so far.

You may very well be right, Penny.

haye,

You appear to be quite the Islamic scholar. Here's a couple of questions I hope you can answer:

If Allah is one, with no equal - then why does he speak in the plural "We" throughout the Quran?

Since the Quran claims that Mohammad was the first Muslim and the Quran is the uncreated word of allah, is it not blasphemy to claim that anybody before gentile Mo (the Jewish prophets) were Muslim?

The Quran says that Isa is sinless and blameless. The only other one who is described this way is Allah. Does this not make Isa equal to Allah?

Considering that Mohammad broke every single one of the ten commandments handed down to Moses from God and the Quran claims Moses as a prophet - does this not make Mohammad an unrepentant sinner?

Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes:
Mark Steyn is bigot used by the Asper family (owners of Macleans)
to spread fear and hate against Muslims

The Aspers make no secret of their support for Israel
Posted 05/06/08 at 9:34 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Global magazine

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080605.wbc-maclean06/CommentStory/National/home#comment2114060

=========

that is it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if above said is correct you can immagine
then Mark Styen intentionaly try to disoby Canada law and follow Isreal law for his boss order and happiness

if you see this example taht some muslim also may contacted to some fund or pay fund to terrorist to do illegal in Canada goverment arrest them
since Canada built the rules and based that rules
peopel choose to obey those rules and listen to it

now if you go to people who get fund to write hate crime by use of pen
to made Canada place to start all war

since America war started in middle Easte

Canada become high since too many american loved to resident in Cnada for safty and this is built more money for Canada if peopel think Canada is safe
and people are not going to made second middle east here
but if you act fool and talk like middle easter people and follow their rules in Canada

soon Canada start get divided from people
next goverment like Canada choose ouside fund of isreal to start the war ot stop the war

in every mood or move you must act politically clever if you do not act clever you mad the canada
worth since Canada is not only Middle esat verses Jewish Iselal
if you divided all mutliculture in Canada it beomce internal war here

therefore do not support any body unless you know how his or her bank account get fill off
even presnet of America is only are toys
you msut see who is behind of American presindet to tell them do or do not !!

law is law we must obey by it
if Canada law say do not say this Mr. Mark guy do not say it if he like to say it is better to change counry go to Isreal and get fund to write in other counry not in Canada

Government and RCMP need to follow bank account of all hate crime group is only mass follower of one person by mistake like the lamb

or the person get fund from source like to increase illegal act here

on other hand Global also like to put Mclean donw for competiton as well
but we must know detail of source to judge the political
what direction at the end those leader who like free speech try to bring you

taht is not free speech call Muslim are insects in big Mclean magazine come on wake up guys!!

who hate Muslim alot and why?

you are not gain talk bad about Muslim and you can not change law of Islam tehn why you waste your time here
you can talk about other fait but not offend them by start saying listen your propeht is adultry man as Soman Roshady said

or Mark Styen said you are inscets

you have free to say your opinin but limit of talk

do you like some one come to your home and start break glasses that is your home

you feel the smae Canadas is your home we do not like like Isreal or AMerican here this is Canada

think Muslim love their religion and not like you just start by say some thing with no clue therre si way to say
shut up and be quiet are the same meaning but are two differnet way of say the things

say some one listen to you not bring to your court and ask you under oath say where is your income collected from
when you go to court more detail will get investigate
then do not go to court if you are not strong
you will get jail if you lied before jduges you should respect judge if you do not clam judge has right to get you out of your own court out and only your lawuyer can stay
then behave well in court if you need to go to human right commison court
follow Canada law not Isreal or America or middle eastern law

The day that victims groups hold themselves up to the same standards as their opponents is the day I'll start believing their protests.

The complainants in BC did not prove hate speech or hate crime. They just proved that not everyone agrees with Steyn and that some unidentified posters somewhere in the world do not like Muslims. That can not possible be the new standard for determining hate speech.

haye,

"taht is not free speech call Muslim are insects in big Mclean magazine come on wake up guys!!"

You have wrong. Steyn didn't say Muslims were insects. It was one of your Imams who lives and preaches the lunacy of Islam in Norway.

Steym merely quoted him when the Imam stated. (not verbatim) "We don't have to beat you in a war, we muslims are breeding like mosquitoes, we will simply outnumber you"

And that ... you brain-washed buffoon, is precisely the point of Mr. Steyn's book "America Alone". The demographic growth in Islam is a simple fact and not Western propaganda nor some kind of insult. You are all so sensitive. I do wish you would all just go home if you don't like us. North America is not Europe. We will not let you get as far as you did there already.

And the "Mosquito" reference has nothing to do with the fact that you spend so much in Mosques.

The first muslim is Mohamad
book god is for people and propeht of god is messenger from god to people

Muslim bleive teh Jesis perfected more detail of rules tahn Moses to people and Mohamade is perfected teh Jeses
is like class 1 and class 2 and class 3

Muslim belive book of holy enjil of Jeses is get some changed is not all origin he said

Muslim are not bleive jesis is son of god
Muslim are not belive 3 god some brach of Christian say it
we belive god is one the person create human
we do belive jesis is human creat by god
we belive it was god orderd Mary got pregrant and had the child called jesis

we belive 89% we have sarah called 'Maryam'
in Quran describe about Mary and Jeises

we do believe god can give all majic in hand of moses and jesis but still they are not god

we de belive Moses and jesis was sinless
we do not belive that only god is sinless

we do belive if human being respect god order they can becom sinless
we do not belive only prophet is symbol of perfec
if you obey Islam law you can becom sinless and go to heavan

if prophet made the book can not get diploma of humanity to any body tehn teh book if not wrote for human to follow

we do Muslim disagree taht because Jeis is sinless is god or son of the god
god is only one and one power that aboslute

god can do any thing he wish and can mercy or pusnih you

god is god
propeh is propeht
but we have simbole of human who were not prophet but they were sinless
one is Fatemeh of Zahra daughter of prophet mohamad was sinless woman

-------
mohamad are perfect otehr prophet
for example pork was ban since moses
but if you read ingil is ban too
but recetn christian change the law
but main fram of all religion in humanity is the same

never Prophet mohamad kill innocent person for hate crime and /or revenge

you must go to some resounce to ask who know all wording to tell you more clear than me
god is ONE
you can become Muslim if you say
Ashadon la ilaha illallah

Ashadon mohamaen reasoula al allah

I agree with god is one
and I agree with Mohamd is propeht of allah

then you must obey his rules though
Muslim has the same respect for moses than jesis
most muslim has name of moses for their son more than jesis for their son in Arab country for love of moses
muslim love jeisis and moses and resepct them they are prophet of god with the same sinless and messagner of god and allah

first educated your self before you come to conclusion

I think Haye needs Jesus in his life! Repent!

RM
If only your forefathers on arrival in Canada had done the same thing. Now can you see how stupid your "go home if you don't like it" rhetoric is.
Canada is a country that was created by incomers with different ideas and Canada will continue to grow through weighing different ideas and deciding how to progress.

Irwin
Nice questions to haye.
All the dogmatic tomes and all religions have double standards, self defeating arguments and such because they were devised piecemeal by those who could read to enslave those who couldn't.
The two differing versions of genesis in the kjv is a start.
The hatred spewed in the old testament is common to all the religions of the book too.
But even as a non-believer your questions are retarded.
Ever heard of the royal we?
Mustard and a banana are yellow does that make a banana a condiment?
As for the content of the NT vis a vis the behaviour of christ, that was carefully edited by the writers of the testaments and the collators of the NT. What happened to the guy from being born to when we pick up his story later in life? Jesus just had better PR and a serious editor.
As for the Moses and the prophets riddle, god works in mysterious ways! Isn't that the answer all the religious con-men fall back on?

Thank you Haye.

Should I wish to become a child rapist and pervert like your beloved prophet, and forcibly drag my fellow
man back to the seventh century, I will of course become a muslim.

As I am neither brain-dead nor brain-washed, nor imbued with hatred of jews and Christians, I think
I'll stay as I am.

number #1 insult:
We will not let you get as far as you did there already.

number #2 insult:
do wish you would all just go home if you don't like us. North America is not Europe.

number # 3 insult:
And the "Mosquito" reference has nothing to do with the fact that you spend so much in Mosques

number #4 insult:

You have wrong.

number # 5 insult:
Styen translation of these sentence was not that poor muslim man under pain of hearing so many muslim are dieing every day said taht
the only think you non Muslim cna not see the pain of Muslim open the news saying 50 people die in Iraq 20 die in Palastin
but for you sep 11 is only think to go and kill Afgani in Afganistan by mass army for execuse of not find real crimiinal but killing so many innocent Muslim person!!
that is hate crime
but do not worry Muslim will and did stop Mark Styen fredom of speech already he is trail now not that sheikh in Norway the sound of talk of Mark Styen hurt so many Muslim you can not hurt people under pain

Steym merely quoted him when the Imam stated. (not verbatim)

"We don't have to beat you in a war, we muslims are breeding like mosquitoes, we will simply outnumber you"

Number 6 insult:
And that ... you brain-washed buffoon, is precisely the point of Mr. Steyn's book "America Alone". The demographic growth in Islam is a simple fact and not Western propaganda nor some kind of insult. You are all so sensitive

now you said your point with at least 6 insult to me then you still saying you are talk with not insult

taht is reason America is alone
and nonmuslim Canadian are alone too with them talk about us

because we do not like to talk to you if you are lonely find othe topic to chat with leave muslim alone let stay with their pain to heal their heart

Muslim get over century in too many ways hurtn from west this is need time and not talk from west about them to carry the past and forget or at least forgive teh west and what they done to muslim population and how they reduced their population

do not talk let heart get heal and may time come muslim like to talk to west
if not do not add salt to wounded heart

why muslim are sensetive becaue they got so much unfairness from west can not handle you any more and not like to talk to nonmuslim any more

if you do not open this gap muslim come like some balck hate white and some new generation hate nonmuslim

who went and brought compalin to human right commison as I heard new young studnet who are Muslim live in Canada means what
new generatin are fight old foxes in west
tehy are young and they think by law can fight you
whiel muslim know by law can not fihgt discriminaiton as well
since law maker and judges still are non muslim who give the vote to ok to Mark Styne

and let him go home safe and let kill muslim in world
those judges who ingoner all internationla pain that new young muslim childern who saw tehir patenst for years suffer leave any whre in world it dost not matter Middle east and /or Canada
just no safty and goods so far fro Muslim

who pay mark Styne boss police said Isreal!!

then as said to you just stop it keep the gap and leave hear heal and let time cover all mistake
as we see ate least more than 6 insult I could see when you one say your point to me and still you say we are not racist!!

We will not let you get as far as you did there already here is not europe
who are you ? to give any thing to us ?
just leave us alone we do not like you
we do not anything from you we do not want you to take our things from us get it!!
stop hate and insult muslim

haye,

Macleans magazine is owned by Rogers, not the Aspers. So your racist Jewish conspiracy is dashed.

"The first muslim is Mohamad"

Therefore, nobody before Mohammad is a Muslim, including Adam, Abraham, the Jewish prophets and Jesus. Very good.

Now, would you kindly answer the other questions.

"never Prophet mohamad kill innocent person for hate crime and /or revenge"

It seems you don't know your prophet very well. Mohammad gave the orders to assassinate several poets for the crime of insulting him, including the elderly Meccan poet Al-Nadr bin al-Harith. And in fact, a whole lot more:

In condemnation of the elderly poet’s death, Asma bte Marwan, a poetess and mother of five, wrote verses denouncing Muhammad’s heinous act. Muhammad ordered her execution, too. His blind disciple named Umayr, belonging to Asma’s tribe, entered her house one night, removed her suckling baby from her bosom and plunged his sword into her breast with such force that it got stuck onto the couch. Prophet thanked Umayr for the job well-done [Ibn Ishaq, p675-6]: “You have helped God and His apostle, O 'Umayr.” The blind assassin for his great service received the honorific, ‘Umayr the Seeing.’

Another famous poet to fall pray to Muhammad’s sword was Ka’b ibn Ashraf, a Jew. Hearing about Muhammad’s victory at Badr, he traveled there. Witnessing the ghastly bloodbath, he traveled down to Mecca, and wrote a poem, lamenting over the dead Quraysh and inveighing Muhammad’s unjustified barbarity.

Once reached Muhammad’s ear, he said [Ibn Ishaq, p367]: “Who would rid me of [Ka’b] Ibnu'l-Ashraf?” Muhammad’s disciples, including Abu Naila and a foster brother of Ka’b, volunteered for the job. The assassins, with permission from Muhammad, befriended Ka’b by saying bad things about the Prophet. Then on one moonlit night, Abu Naila went to Ka’b house calling him to come out to devise some plan to counter Muhammad. Ka’b’s newly married wife warned him: “By God, I can feel evil in his voice.” Ka'b answered to his wife: “Even if the call were for a stab, a brave man must answer it.” Then he went out with Abu Naila, who enticed him to go walking around while talking about their plan. A pleasant little proposal on a moonlit night as it was, Ka’b came along. Once gotten at the right place, Abu Naila and his four accomplices fell upon the naïve poet with their swords and dagger and butchered him. Al-Tabari records, they brought Ka’b’s head to Muhammad and the Prophet duly thanked them for their service to Allah.

When Muhammad captured Mecca in 630 CE and destroyed the idol Gods of Ka’ba, he ordered execution of 10-12 men who had criticized, apostatized from, or overtly opposed his creed. Among them, were two singing girls, who had composed songs ridiculing Muhammad’s messages more than a decade earlier during Muhammad’s preaching in Mecca.

Oh, and what of the 900 innocent men and boys of the Banu Quraiz who Mohammad ordered beheaded, in fact beheading several himself? All for the crime of not joining his terrorist army of pirates and rapists?

What of one of the wives, who after watching her husband, father and brothers beheaded was taken as a rape slave by Mohammad?

Your own texts prove that your prophet was a blood-thirsty, thieving reprobate. The furthest thing from God.

Why do you still want to be a Muslim?

"do not talk about 3 things:

Mohamad( or other propeht of god) - Isalam( Muslim) - holy book of Quran( soreh)"

Haye: At some point when I have free time I'm planning to buy some Korans, defile them with EXTREME PREJUDICE, and publish the resulting photography project to the Net. Just for you.

If I get charged with a hate crime for this, so much the better.

If this is what passes for Islamic thought then there is NO point discussing anything.

As far as I'm concerned The Imams, Rabis and Priest can take their fairy tail oppressive religions back to the Middle East where they were hatched and shove their holy books up their respective.

Haye, here are insults #7, #8 and #9 for you:

- you are fat;
- you are ugly; and
- your mother dresses you funny.

There's lots more where that came from, too. When a fatwa is called against me, does it come in a certificate form ready for framing? I've picked out a nice spot already.

Here are some parting thoughts (which I am perfectly free to hold and express): Mohammed is a *********** son of a *********; the Quran is ********-ridden ********; and Allah likes to **** little ****.

Harebell, my forefathers came to this country because they liked what it stood for. They came to escape the repression of the Old World, not to import it.

haye

Your real name isn't Lucy by chance?

Footnote:
[1] I'm stumped. What child's toy goes best with "Danny Pearl was not a documentary"?

Disney's Princes Jasmine from the Aladin movie... in a burkha.

Alternately, if that's sold out you can get Snow White in chains with the beheading accessory kit.

It's not as if Warren Kinsella doesn't believe in freedom of speech. He just doesn't see it as a right, but a privilege, and the most valuable privilege his party can confer. He prostituted himself for years to get that privilege; let's not even consider the price he made his children pay.

He sure as hell doesn't want to share that with peons like you.

Hey, Haye. You're a fraud. Your first language is English; that's obvious from your grammatical structure. And you can indeed spell some words most ESL people can't. So, stop being a coward; stop hiding; and stand up like a man and, if you believe in what you say, be prepared to debate it.

What you are doing is, first, pretending to be a foreigner. You aren't. And second, making a lot of false and ignorant statements about Islam and about other people. Read what Irwin Daisy and others have said about your assertions. MOST OF WHAT YOU ARE SAYING is wrong! Got that?

And third, moving yourself and others outside of the realm of reason and into behaving like hapless sheep.

Islam and its beliefs are NOT outside of debate. Every single belief in every ideology is, and must be, open to debate, discussion, questions. The fact that YOU reject thinking - that's your problem. But you have no right to insist that the rest of the world stop thinking.

Furthermore, Canada is not a hotel. You cannot come to this land and think that it's an empty space where you can simply bring your old beliefs and behaviour and repeat them here. Canada is a nation with a defined rule of law, a defined constitution and its own historical cultural development. YOU have to integrate and fit yourself into these existent laws, this existent constitution, these existent normative modes of belief and behaviour. You have no rights whatsoever to demand that all other Canadians follow your beliefs/behaviour.

If you don't like The Canadian Way, then you must leave and find a country whose values are similar to yours. Remember, in Canada, we have a fundamental belief in freedom of speech. You can't shut us up. We have a fundamental belief in the equality of men and women; your beliefs in their inequality won't function here. We have a fundamental belief in the rule of law; your insistence on your own Sharia Law, is unacceptable here.

So, Hearsay Haye - stop pretending. Stop being so ignorant about Islam and Muslims. And grow up.

Wow, a burning Union Jack! How original!! Who's the IQ 139 who thought of that one?? It isn't a bomb exploding or cannon fire that starts a war, but often a simple pinprick through one's ballon!!

Oh I get it, haye. You're really just a rite-wing sock puppet posing as a Mohammadean in order to further the false sterotype of Muslims as illiterate, thin-skinned nutballs. Nice try.

My belief is that haye and hairball are the same person. I think hes got the whole "Jack the Ripper" act down.
Canada is still a FREE country. Freedom of speech still applies. Dont like it ... Too bad!

haye, you've been here every day trolling with a different moniker. One more time, I'm not buying your Muslim immigrant shtick for a minute.

I've had some foreign exchange students in my home in my time struggling, then, progressing with English. None of them would have spelled correctly or grammatically used "therefore" in a sentence while their basic spelling was as primative as you pretend, inconsistently mind you, yours to be.

I feel sorry for Muslims that aren't here to speak with their own voices. They deserve better than someone your impersonation.

I would be the first person to welcome muslim debate here under the condition that links are given instead of those Loo__ong word dumps.

Links like this one. . .

http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD195108

So easy to make a point this way, while keeping it short.

Muslims blog as well as anyone... see archives of MichaelTotten.com

=TG

http://al-islam.org/begin/intro/rizvi.html

An Introduction to Islam

What is Islam?
Islam is a religion which guides its followers in every aspect of their lives. It is a way of life.
Islam is the modern or latest version of the message sent by God through Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus. Islam was sent to mankind through Prophet Muhammad. Islam is "modern" in the sense that it has come to complement the teachings which were introduced through Moses and Jesus.
Islam is a religion which seeks to give a meaningful purpose to our life on this earth. It seeks to guide us in fulfilling that purpose by creating harmony between ourselves, our Creator and fellow human beings.
What you will read below are some of the basic features of Islam.
The One & Only God
Islam is a monotheistic religion. It teaches that there is only one God who is the origin and creator of the universe. This is the foundation of Islam, and is reflected in the famous sentence which says that, "There is no god but Allah." (Allah is the Arabic name of God.)
The belief in God relates us to our origin and guides us throughout our life. The belief in one God shows that man should not worship any material thing or person in this universe.
By teaching that there is only One God for all humans, Islam promotes the sense of brotherhood and equality in human society--all are equally related to God in the same way. The Qur'an, the holy book of Islam, says:
He (God) is One, God is Eternal;
He has neither begotten,
nor has He been begotten;
and there is no one equal to Him.
(chapter 112)
The Purpose of Life
Our life on this earth has a specific purpose; it is not the result of nature's accident, nor is it a punishment for eating the fruit of the forbidden tree. We are here according to God's plan: the wordly life is a test; it is a chance to prove ourselves as deserving of the eternal blissful life in the hereafter. God did not create us just for few years of this life. To be created just for this world's life would amount to a joke played by the Creator with the human species. Muhammad, the Prophet of Islam, said," You have not been created to perish; on the contrary, you have been created for eternal life."
According to Islam, the final destination of mankind is the life hereafter. At the end of time, all human beings will be resurrected and will be held accountable for their wordly life. The life in hereafter will be an eternal life. However, whether it will be blissful or full of sorrow depends on how we spend our present life.
It was to help mankind in achieving this objective that God sent various prophets and messengers to guide them. Muhammad is the last prophet, and Islam is the final and complete version of God's message.
Status of Human Beings in Islam
Prime Creation: Human being is the prime creation of God. He says, "We have indeed honored the children of Adam; spread them in the land and the sea, provided them with good things; and preferred them in esteem over many things that We have created." (Qur'an: chp. 17, verse 70)
Born Sinless: Islam teaches that every human being is born sinless; no child carries the burden of his or her ancestors' sins. God says, "No carrier shall carry the burden of others." (Qur'an; chp. 35, verse 18). Each human being is born with a pure conscience which can absorb and accept the true message of God. It is only the social and familial influences which take a person away from God's message.
Accountability: Islam also emphasizes on the issue of responsibility and accountability of human beings--each person is responsible for his or her own actions. Although Islam teaches that God has predetermined the span of our life and the time of our death, it does not mean that even our actions are predetermined by Him. We surely are free in our actions and are, therefore, accountable for them. God only provides guidance for us to know what is good and what is bad. He says, "We created man of a water-drop...Surely We guided him to the right way--now whether he (follows it and) be grateful or (goes astray and) be ungrateful is up to him." (Qur'an: chp. 76, verse 3).
Race: Islam very categorically rejects racial discrimination. It promotes the feeling of brotherhood and equality among its followers. God clearly says, "O Mankind! We have created you from one male and one female, and then We made you into different races and tribes so that you may know (and easily recognize) each other." Therefore, no one can claim any superiority over others based on racial or tribal differences. A person is to be judged by his character, not by his color or race. God continues, "Surely the most honorable of you in God's sight is the person who is most upright in character among you." (Qur'an; chp. 49, verse 13).
Gender: Even gender does not count as a criterion of superiority. In Islam, women are as human as men. They are not evaluated on basis of their gender, but on basis of their faith and character. Fourteen hundred years ago, the Qur'an recorded God's clear statements on this issue. Out of the four verses, I will just quote one: "Whoever, be it a male or a female, does good deeds and he or she is a believer, then they will enter the Paradise." (Qur'an: chp. 4, verse 124). So there is no difference in the degree or level of woman's humanity or honor in Islam.
The only difference there exists is concerning the role which Islam has envisioned for man and woman. This has nothing to do with superiority or inferiority. In Islam, man and woman are equalm in rights; but equality is not synonymous to similarity. Islam believes that man and woman are equal but dissimilar. Islam looks at their different roles in society not as superior or inferior but as complementary to each other.
Islam
The Religion of Peace
Islam is a religion of peace. This is evident even from the name "Islam" itself. ("Islam" is an Arabic word.) The word "Islam" and the Arabic word for peace, "salam" both come from the same root, "salima".
Muslims are taught to greet each other by saying "salamun alaykum--peace be upon you." The daily prayers also end with the same sentence. In Islam, one of the names by which God is known is "Salam" which means peace.
However, one must realize that peace can never be achieved in vacuum. It is intertwined with justice. One can have peace only on basis of justice. "Justice" means putting everything in its rightful place. If one starts putting things in the wrong places, then he disrupts the social harmony and disturbs peace.
Islam seeks to promote peace on two levels:
1. Peace within One's Self:
A person can achieve inner peace by creating harmony and balance between his main emotions (desire and anger) and his spiritual self. In other words, between his emotions and his conscience.
Human's spiritual power or conscience is not a static phenomenon: it has the ability of growth as well as decadence. God swears by the soul of human being and says, "He inspired to it to understand what is good and what is evil. Prosperous in the person who purifies it, and failed is he who seduces it." (Qur'an; chp. 91, verse 10).
2. Peace With Others:
Islam very strongly emphasizes on the rights which people have over each other. It seeks to perserve peace in society by training and urging its followers to fulfill the rights of each other. In Islam, salvation is not possible by just fulfilling the rights of God; one has to fulfill the rights of other human beings also.
Unfortnately, because of the Middle Eastern events of the last three decades, Islam has been branded by the media as a religion of violence. In recent years, the word "Islamic" has become one of the adjectives of "terrorism." In this backdrop, firstly, one must realize that the events in the Middle East can be fairly and fully understood only in the light of the post-WWI history of that region, in particular the promises given by the British to the Arabs. Secondly, no fair-minded person would allow himself to blame the religion of Islam for the wrong-doings of those who call themselves as Muslims. It is just like saying that the Catholic Church promotes violence and terrorism because of the Irish Republican Army's activites!
Taken from An Introduction to Islam, Sayyid Muhammad Rizvi, Muhammadi Islamic Center, Canada, 1992/1412.
-------------

I think the CHRC is working over time, tisk tisk it must be boring having nothing to do all day but troll the net looking for hate. Alas we are a tolerant people, in Canada we are all equal in the eyes of the law. No one group based on race or religion is superior to another, YET.

Special K reminds me of my dog's fecis, it's easier to pick up with a bag if I use the first glob to pick up the second glob and so forth. Eventually the stench gets over powering and I must throw said bag of poop out.

Actually, knowislam, your post is pure rhetoric; that is, it is words-without-objective-facts. My goodness - can't you at least THINK about what you read? Don't you know anything about the actual, factual history of Islam? Don't you know anything about the actual, factual writings of the Koran? Well? Are you unable to think and reason?

Because you say that 'Islam is the 'last word of god' etc, doesn't make it such, as fact. It's simply words.

Furthermore, an ideology must be located within its context, and Islam emerged in the 7th century, within a stressed pastoralist economy - please note that the social, political and economic mode of life espoused by Islam is an early form of agriculture. This is where the male is dominant, might require many children as workers in the economy (based around herding), and the family unit had to look after the whole extended family (unmarried women, widows, etc).

Moreover, your textual assertion of 'peace' ignores the violence committed by Muslims in the 8th right through the 17th century. Long, long before any of the World Wars. Long, long before the British and the Middle East. So? Explain the monstrous pillaging, murders, whole villages killed...in those years by The Religion of Peace.

Note also that the Koran is filled with exhorting Muslim followers to kill people, to murder infidels, to..etc etc. Hardly peaceful.

Furthermore, the Wahhabi version began long before the World Wars. So did Al Qaeda in Egypt. And, if Muslims really believed that their religion was 'all about peace' then they would have adamantly rejected this violence.

By the way, has it ever occurred to you that a society, such as the Arab States in the ME, which retains a dysfunctional mode of political and social organization, namely hereditary tribalism, which thus rejects empowering all the citizens of that state...and focuses power only in one tribe...does it ever occur to you that this might be the cause of Islamic fascism?

This utter blindness to reality, this Head-In-The-Mythic Book ...reminds me of the trapped scholastics of the 11th century. They too retreated from reality, denied objective facts, denied reality..and debated only pure rhetoric. Their realm collapsed because facts must always triumph over fiction.

Try to THINK rather than be a sheep copying down what you see.

"Try to THINK rather than be a sheep copying down what you see." by ET

Hell, turn on the TV, read a newspaper, stay a night in Sderot.

KnowIslam seems unable to respond to a polite hint. Too bad.

Looks more like over zealous junior liberals rather than intelligent Muslims. = TG

I hope all you bible thumpin sht heads are handcuffed together for an eternity so us normal people can live in piece.

Funny how the tooth fairy is fantasy but jesus,moses,allah;buddah,crapstick,are all worth diein for.

Wake the fck up!

http://al-islam.org/nutshell/beliefs/

What Non-Muslims Say About … Islam, The Fastest Growing Religion in the World


What Non-Muslims Say About … Islam, The Fastest Growing Religion in the World


Those who listen to the word and follow the best of it; those are the ones whom God has guided, and those are the ones endowed with understanding (Holy Qur'an 39:18)

This is a collection of short quotations from a wide variety of Non-Muslim notables, including academics, writers, philosophers, poets, politicians, and activists belonging to the East and the West. To our knowledge none of them ever became Muslim. These words, therefore, reflect their personal views on various aspects of the religion of Islam.


Bertrand Russell (1872-1970) British philosopher, mathematician, and Nobel laureate, whose emphasis on logical analysis greatly influenced the course of 20th-century philosophy.

 "Our use of the phrase 'the Dark Ages' to cover the period from 699 to 1,000 marks our undue concentration on Western Europe… From India to Spain, the brilliant civilization of Islam flourished. What was lost to Christendom at this time was not lost to civilization, but quite the contrary… To us it seems that West-European civilization is civilization; but this is a narrow view." [History of Western Philosophy, London, 1948, p. 419]


Hamilton Alexander Roskeen Gibb (1895-1971) A leading orientalist scholar of his time.

 "But Islam has a still further service to render to the cause of humanity. It stands after all nearer to the real East than Europe does, and it possesses a magnificent tradition of inter-racial understanding and cooperation. No other society has such a record of success uniting in an equality of status, of opportunity, and of endeavours so many and so various races of mankind … Islam has still the power to reconcile apparently irreconcilable elements of race and tradition. If ever the opposition of the great societies of East and West is to be replaced by cooperation, the mediation of Islam is an indispensable condition. In its hands lies very largely the solution of the problem with which Europe is faced in its relation with East."[Whither Islam, London, 1932, p. 379.]

 "That his (Muhammad's) reforms enhanced the status of women in general is universally admitted." [Mohammedanism, London, 1953, p. 33]


James A. Michener (1907-1997) Leading American writer; recipient of honorary doctorates in five fields from thirty leading universities and decorated with the Presidential Medal of freedom, America's highest civilian award.

 "No other religion in history spread so rapidly as Islam . . . The West has widely believed that this surge of religion was made possible by the sword. But no modern scholar accepts that idea, and the Qur'an is explicit in support of the freedom of conscience." [Islam - The Misunderstood Religion, Readers' Digest (American Edition) May 1955]


Edward Gibbon (1737-1794). Considered the greatest British historian of his time.

 "'I believe in One God and Mohammed the Apostle of God,' is the simple and invariable profession of Islam. The intellectual image of the Deity has never been degraded by any visible idol; the honours of the prophet have never transgressed the measure of human virtue, and his living precepts have restrained the gratitude of his disciples within the bounds of reason and religion."[History Of The Saracen Empire, London, 1870, p. 54.]

 "More pure than the system of Zoroaster, more liberal than the law of Moses, the religion of Mahomet might seem less inconsistent with reason than the creed of mystery and superstition which, in the seventh century, disgraced the simplicity of the gospels." [The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, vol. 5. p. 487]


Jared Diamond Professor of Physiology at the UCLA School of Medicine; recipient of the Pulitzer Prize for General Non-Fiction in 1998.

 "Medieval Islam was technologically advanced and open to innovation. It achieved far higher literacy rates than in contemporary Europe; it assimilated the legacy of classical Greek civilization to such a degree that many classical books are now known to us only through Arabic copies. It invented windmills, trigonometry, lateen sails and made major advances in metallurgy, mechanical and chemical engineering and irrigation methods. In the middle-ages the flow of technology was overwhelmingly from Islam to Europe rather from Europe to Islam. Only after the 1500's did the net direction of flow begin to reverse."[Guns, Germs, and Steel - The Fates of Human Societies, 1997, p. 253]

( continue .. )

--------------

http://al-islam.org/nutshell/personalities/
What Non-Muslims Say About Muhammad, The Prophet of Islam


What Non-Muslims Say About …Muhammad, The Prophet of Islam (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him and His Family)

Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of God and the Last of the Prophets. (Holy Qur'an 33:40)


This is a collection of short quotations from a wide variety of Non-Muslim notables, including academics, writers, philosophers, poets, politicians, and activists belonging to the East and the West.

To our knowledge none of them ever became Muslims. These words, therefore, reflect their personal views on various aspects of the life of the Prophet.


Michael H. Hart (1932- ) Professor of astronomy, physics and the history of science.

 "My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular level." [The 100: A Ranking Of The Most Influential Persons In History, New York, 1978, p. 33]



William Montgomery Watt (1909- ) Professor (Emeritus) of Arabic and Islamic Studies at the University of Edinburgh.

 "His readiness to undergo persecutions for his beliefs, the high moral character of the men who believed in him and looked up to him as leader, and the greatness of his ultimate achievement - all argue his fundamental integrity. To suppose Muhammad an impostor raises more problems than it solves. Moreover, none of the great figures of history is so poorly appreciated in the West as Muhammad." [Mohammad At Mecca, Oxford, 1953, p. 52]



Alphonse de Lamartine (1790-1869) French poet and statesman.

 "Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas, restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images; the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?"[Translated from Histoire De La Turquie, Paris, 1854, vol. II, pp. 276-277]



Reverend Bosworth Smith (1794-1884) Late Fellow of Trinity College, Oxford.

 "… he was Caesar and Pope in one; but he was Pope without the Pope's pretensions, and Caesar without the legions of Caesar. Without a standing army, without a bodyguard, without a palace, without a fixed revenue, if ever any man had the right to say that he ruled by a right Divine, it was Mohammed; for he had all the power without its instruments and without its supports." Mohammed and Mohammedanism, London, 1874, p. 235]


Mohandas KaramchandGandhi (1869-1948) Indian thinker, statesman, and nationalist leader.

 "....I became more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These, and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every trouble." [Young India (periodical), 1928, Volume X]



Edward Gibbon (1737-1794) Considered the greatest British historian of his time.

 "The greatest success of Mohammad's life was effected by sheer moral force without the stroke of a sword."
[History Of The Saracen Empire, London, 1870]



John William Draper (1811-1882) American scientist, philosopher, and historian.

 "Four years after the death of Justinian, A.D. 569, was born at Mecca, in Arabia the man who, of all men exercised the greatest influence upon the human race . . . Mohammed." [A History of the Intellectual Development of Europe, London, 1875, vol.1, pp. 329-330]


David George Hogarth (1862-1927) English archaeologist, author, and keeper of the Ashmolean Museum, Oxford.

 “Serious or trivial, his daily behaviour has instituted a canon which millions observe this day with conscious mimicry. No one regarded by any section of the human race as Perfect Man has been imitated so minutely. The conduct of the Founder of Christianity has not so governed the ordinary life of His followers. Moreover, no Founder of a religion has been left on so solitary an eminence as the Muslim Apostle.” [Arabia, Oxford, 1922, p. 52]


Washington Irving (1783-1859) Well-known as the “first American man of letters".

 “He was sober and abstemious in his diet, and a rigorous observer of fasts. He indulged in no magnificence of apparel, the ostentation of a petty mind; neither was his simplicity in dress affected, but the result of a real disregard to distinction from so trivial a source ... In his private dealings he was just. He treated friends and strangers, the rich and poor, the powerful and the weak, with equity, and was beloved by the common people for the affability with which he received them, and listened to their complaints ... His military triumphs awakened no pride nor vain glory, as they would have done had they been effected for selfish purposes. In the time of his greatest power he maintained the same simplicity of manners and appearance as in the days of his adversity. So far from affecting regal state, he was displeased if, on entering a room, any unusual testimonial of respect were shown to him." [Life of Mahomet, London, 1889, pp. 192-3, 199]



Annie Besant (1847-1933) British theosophist and nationalist leader in India. President of the Indian National Congress in 1917.

 "It is impossible for anyone who studies the life and character of the great Prophet of Arabia, who knows how he taught and how he lived, to feel anything but reverence for that mighty Prophet, one of the great messengers of the Supreme. And although in what I put to you I shall say many things which may be familiar to many, yet I myself feel whenever I re-read them, a new way of admiration, a new sense of reverence for that mighty Arabian teacher." [The Life And Teachings Of Muhammad, Madras, 1932, p. 4]


Edward Gibbon (1737-1794) Considered the greatest British historian of his time.

 "His (i.e., Muhammad's) memory was capacious and retentive, his wit easy and social, his imagination sublime, his judgment clear, rapid and decisive. He possessed the courage of both thought and action."[History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, London, 1838, vol.5, p.335]

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abcd:
"it [the invisible hand] is crystal clear and rational, supported by abundant factual data." I see two problems here. First, the invisible hand is a kind of theological concept, a speculative faith in a harmonizing principle invisibly guiding the market. The language of deductive or inductive science has little place here. Secondly, were such a harmony to exist, it is predicated on actually having a free, unfettered market. I believe monopolistic, not free, best describes modern market economies. In any case, modern markets are heavily regulated. But I'm no economist, so I'm open to correction.

I alluded to it only because it seems to me that the libertarian position on unconditional and unregulated freedom of expression relies on a similar faith. Reason becomes a moral harmonizing force that invisibly will direct the marketplace of words and ideas. Thus, indeed allow any idiot to spew vapid inane and even hateful comments, for the marketplace of words is righteously self-regulating. This seems to be the pivotal argument for libertarians. I'd like to hear others.

In the meantime, I simply pointed to the Harpercrites, who are evidently not wholly averse to right wing libertarianism. While most of you here are full of indignation when it comes to regulating Mark Steyn's cynical, disingenuous, and often hateful speech, you don't seem to have any difficulty with the fact that our government is boycotting a conference because there might be some comments made with which they disapprove. Let's be clear, this is not a sit down with "the terrorists"; it's a UN world conference on racism and xenophobia. While the Harpercrites are not leaning on some HRC, I believe what they are doing is worse because, having learned well from the neocons down south, they are acting purely preemptively. Our government is boycotting this conference for fear that perhaps there might be some offensive statements. The supposed "hate" speech hasn't even yet occurred. In fact, there's a good likelihood such speech won't occur at all. Should libertarians not be indignant at this Harpercritcal stance?
Harper needs an oracle not an HRC. Then again, maybe his spiritualist/stylist knows something the rest of us don't.

I repeat, 'knowislam' (whom I suspect is our friend 'haye') - THINK about what is written and said. It is utterly useless; it is a sign of deep ignorance to cherry-pick selections from diverse authors and post them, trying to make an analysis and conclusion.

You have to critique EACH selection for its veracity, its reliability, its contextual intention. It is the height of ignorance to cherry pick. Young students do that. They don't think; they are given an assignment, so they zip through a bunch of quotations, post the quotes, and think that these quotes support a conclusion.

Nope. They don't. Anyone can find tons of quotes to support or not support anything. Your tactic is a form of fallacious irrationality. It's called, 'appeal to authority' - where you cherry pick quotes, tell us the author is an authority (no, they aren't)...and expect this quote to support your conclusion.

It doesn't. THINK. Question. Critique. Analyze and stop behaving like a passive sheep swallowing everything.

Most of your quotes are ungrounded, non-factual OPINIONS. As such, they are worthless.

Avaia
that passes as a thought to you? Well it was wrong whatever it was.

RM
You ancestors may have come here for that but you are not a chip off the old block with your "like it or go home, but don't try and change anything ever" attitude.
It's that attitude, that one liner smug retort that closes discussions without a reason that annoyed me. Maybe that's not you, but you said it.

This post is one good Kinsella ass-whooping.

knowislam, you don't own a right of reply, keep the comments down to the size of an encyclopedia please. Holy toledo, muhammed, this web page has been conquered.

Oh man that's some really bad impersonation.
You should be embarrassed.

Hey, all these asshats and lame imposters sound just like all the dirtbags over at the urinal photographers place; some old crooks "asskicker".

By allah's beard liberals and the HRCs are weak minded
"A"holes.

Oh man that's some really bad impersonation.
You should be embarrassed.

Hey, all these asshats and lame imposters sound just like all the dirtbags over at the urinal photographers place; some old crooks "asskicker".

By allah's beard liberals and the HRCs are weak minded
"A"holes.

Hey i saw a copy of THE SATANIC VERSES at our librarys annuial booksale i hope they dont decide to burn our library down i live just across the street from it