What's that old Catskill's joke?

"The food here is terrible!"

"Yeah... and such small portions..."

Fascinating how we Canadians just don't get it.

You can only go so far with bashing your biggest trading partner, sneering at their ideals, beliefs and behaviour - and then, arrogantly expecting them to come and spend money up here.

The thing is, we don't have anything to offer the tourist in Canada; the US has beaches and parks and big cities. The US has a clear sense of its own identity. Canada has none because it squanders it within multiculturalism. So - what do we offer to a tourist? Why come? Is Niagara Falls that impressive?

Higher costs, smug self-assigned superiority - and - anger when they don't do as we want - which is to come and spend their money here. Or set up factories here for us to work in; or set up franchises for us to work in; or come up with TV show ideas for us to copy (Canadian Idol, Canadian 5th grader).

Speaking as a small business owner, I'd like to point out that Canadian businesses have to pay much higher taxes than their U.S. counterparts. Our operating costs are also higher because a lot of the products we buy also incorporate higher taxes as part of their price. This is the fault of Canadian governments at all levels and the Canadians who selfishly demand that "the government" pay for everything.

I do what I can to keep my price competitive, but the whole point of being in business is to earn a living. If I can't -- might as well close the doors.

My business is not aimed at tourists, BTW, but I get the odd American in my shop needing a computer bit or help with their laptop. I do my best to give them a warm welcome and thank them for visiting Canada.

"...Tourism Association of Canada report on the "crisis" in the industry..."

I refer to my comment on the previous thread. You start adding up the cost of land, taxes, employees, taxes, compliance with regulation and taxes, insurance, taxes, pretty soon you see why it costs three grand for five nights at Cleveland's House on Lake Rosseau in Ontscario. Junky cottages are going for $300k and up, do some math and figure out how much profit you have to have from a bed-and-breakfast just to cover the mortgage.

Its cheaper to FLY to Arizona and stay for a week than it is to drive to Muskoka and do the same thing. The days of driving up to the family cottage for the weekend are pretty much past for most regular wage earners.

Tax cut. Now please. Biiiig one.

FUNDY National Park in NB went through a complete transformation after 9/11.

They had all sorts of Americans staying away. I have always thought it was caused by a Liberal Prime Minister who publicly blamed America for what happened before the dead were even cold.

The government had people like Carolyn Parrish and supporters who couldn't say enough negative and bizzare things on a regular basis.

These boneheads are completely incapable of joining the dots. Go figure. These are the people that have run our country for far too long. Let's wake up.

When I read this CTV piece yesterday, I saw Carrolyn Parrish between every line.

Compared to Americans, I find Canadians in general to be anal, unfriendly and condescending.
Parrish is a prime example along with the staff at the CBC.
Whenever I travel to the US I always make it a point not to reveal myself as a Canadian, if at all possible.

funny thing Ron, I had the same vision.

Carrolyn Parrish and the rest of the sneering libs standing beside her.

Ontario leads the pack in US bashing. why anyone would want to go to Trona or the kitch of Niagara Falls in beyond me anyway. been there done that tossed the t-shirts.

SUSAN SARANDON, who appeared in three films last year and won kudos for her TV movie "Bernard and Doris," is still not a contented soul. She says if John McCain gets elected, she will move to Italy or Canada. She adds, "It's a critical time, but I have faith in the American people."

http://community.livejournal.com/ohnotheydidnt/24009465.html

She'll blend nice with those smug folks in Torana.

"A year and a half in the making" - what happened then?

Gas to Vegas and back from Red Deer- $560 (inc. a trip out to the Skywalk at Grand Canyon West, and driving arond Vegas for a week.) 7 nights hotels- $340 (5 at the Stratosphere). My wife spent $500 on clothes that would have set us back $1200-1500 up her. The math is easy to do. Vacationing in Canada can be pricey. Plus, in the American West, you can travel all day on the interstates at 85 mph+. It would take at least 4 hours longer to cover the 930 miles we knocked down in one day on our roads as compared to 13 hours down there.

On the other hand, there is the occasional opportunity to run down lefty moonbats and their offspring

"At least 200 cyclists, some with kids in tow, swarmed the busy Gardiner Expressway last night in a reckless 7-km protest that brought traffic to an abrupt halt for 15 minutes."

How true. And as usual many Canadians and our government would rather go out of business than ever concede that the Americans might in fact do some things better than us.

And look at the cost of flying within Canada. Vancouver to Toronto is typically 3-4 times the cost of a comparable distance within the US. It boggles the mind.

In general I find that Americans travel far more within their own country than Canadians travel within Canada.

Kate you got that right. Even when our dollar was purposely devalued by the liberals encouraging one child families & other social engendering projects to bring on a pseudo-Utopia only a Stalin or any despot would love. Visiting the States was cheaper than in my own Country. Got treated better as well. I will never forget being turned away from an Ontario border crossing because he didn’t like Albertans. Like the US border guard said. You guys should have left those assholes years ago, between the laughs.

I started warning idiots including rabid anti-American journalists with there minions, to stop the bashing of our American cousins e-mail by e-mail. None listened no doubt thinking I was another kook. In fact they where in a swimming pool of contempt mixed with false pride. More pissing in the wind.

They in there hating frenzy where killing Canadian jobs with the real possibility of retaliation. Than came BSE. No surprise there, as well as passports now for visiting. Thank you Liberals , all you tolerant hypocrites. Cabinet ministers pushing hate laced with contempt towards the US . Gee, where was the HRC's then eh? When your leaders echo these sentiments as correct , what do they figure was going to happen?
They pushed the discord till it broke a special relationship in there self righteous neo-Marxist loathing of anyone, or ideas but there own.

This dearth of visitors should be no surprise to anyone, nor our borders now thickening. To you Socialist nuts & Liberals you brought this on your own heads. Because of you we now have a reputation for being the smuggest jerks in the world. Who in there right minds would visit a country wide rip off in fee’s at every junction, while getting rotten service demonstrated anger or revulsion towards the very tourists that support a living for them. All the while thinking there superior because of a “social conscience that conveniently allows them to hate the hand that feeds them. Besides our infrastructure is falling apart from these political crooks lining there own pockets, they have beggared this Nation while they have private Islands with out Canada bank accounts, paying no tax here. These where the worst offenders who brought this on us. Of course this chorus of ideological monkeys sung heartily for the political puppets ,this now is the result. I believe the Liberal ultimate end game was complete isolation for Canada (how do you explain 40% Canadian content in everything) especially from the States. If it broke us no big deal. Our intelligentsia already have there nests to flee to. Our own Government example at the time encouraged this to absurdity. Now we pay big time for there rants of envy, boot laced with malicious lies or pure detestation.

When I visit the States I get treated like a King. Oklahoma has to have the most friendly folks alive.

I don't know if such logical conclusions will ever reach the mind of Liberals and Socialists who have been brought-up to believe that there are no consequences for anything that is done according to their belief-system...

I was at a golf resort in a tiny B.C. town a month ago having dinner with friends. Suddenly a local man stood up and at the top of his voice delivered a rant against "goddamn Calgarians" coming in with all their money, thinking they were better than everyone.

The rant was brilliant. It started with the D word, then the S word, then finally the F and C words. The volume and vitriol rose continuously throughout. I sat in awe.

The table this guy was addressing said they didn't really do anything to set him off. They were just talking amongst themselves.

Some of my buddies missed the whole thing. They wanted to know if there would be an 8 o'clock performance.

But here's the thing. The golf course and club house we were in wouldn't have existed without Calgarians. The entire local economy depended on the money that "goddamn Calgarians" brought in. I guess this guy was prepared to accept the filthy lucre, but not prepared to extend common courtesy. Having grown up in a tourist town, I can tell you it's a common attitude.

"The thing is, we don't have anything to offer the tourist in Canada; the US has beaches and parks and big cities."

This is quite simply false: it's not our attractions that are the problem.

Just off the top of my head, here are 10 easily accessible,* first-rate Canadian locations for foreign tourists:

1. Niagara Falls from the Canadian side.

2. The Old City of Québec.**

3. Vancouver and Vancouver Island.

4. The wine regions of the Okanagan and Niagara Peninsula.

5. The Rockies - Banff, Jasper, Lake Louise and Whistler.

6. PEI.

7. Algonquin Provincial Park.

8. Bay of Fundy.

9. Toronto - yes, good old much-maligned TUHRANNA.

10. 1000 Islands in the St. Lawrence.

There are plenty more - I've not done justice to all provinces - but my point remains valid: it's not what we have, it's how we're handling what we have.

Even in terms of domestic tourism, we shoot ourselves in the foot. Don't you love those Air Canada seat sales that offer $599 return Toronto-Paris or $699 return Toronto-Regina? Fly to Paris or pay $100 more to go to Regina? Tough choice...

Oh, and "craganless", thanks a lot for mentioning Carolyn Parrish; I was having a perfectly good morning until you brought THAT woman's name up.

* Yes, I know there are more esoteric places like the Yukon and the Arctic - and Newfoundland could be listed too - but the key word was easily accessible.

** I was in the Old City a week ago - American tourists everywhere! They love the place because they can go somewhere "European", "French" and exotic without leaving North America.

The crazy thing is we've been preaching tolerance for the last 30 years, great message for all the kids.

To be fair to the "experts" (at least regarding the 1.5 years to prepare), remember that:

- the terms of reference for the study would have been written by bureaucrats (undoubtedly, very poorly);
- the proposals would have been evaluated on lowest cost;
- the work would have been done by the experts within a "narrow" interpretation of the terms of reference and then rejected multiple times while the bureaucrats refined their requirements piece-by-piece; and
- the work (now based on the REAL requirements) would have been reviewed by several different layers of bureaucrats, all looking at the results from different levels of political spin, adjusting the report to make it as palatable as possible for their political masters.

And remember that deadlines for the work of bureaucrats (i.e. their review or response to enquiries) are non-existent.

I can EASILY imagine why it would take a year-and-a-half to produce the report.

Despite the foregoing, the thrust of the post still remains true...the reasons for the crisis are fairly self-evident.

Socialist Miller/TO do their best to attract US tourists.
...-

"After reading this information please visit www.torontothebad.com .

The Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian Institute for Legislative Action is asking for the support of all lawful gun owners across Canada and the U.S. by completely boycotting business and tourism in the City of Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Please read on…."
http://www.huntingfootage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2472

The weak dollar isn't good for Canadian business in the long term. Our forest products are now competitive with government subsidized Canadian products in markets that are struggling world-wide. But, back on topic, I welcome all Canadians to the U. S. and hope your experiences are terrific. We do have fairly decent customer service compared to the rest of the world, we travel world wide, but everyone has a bad day. Americans tend to find any kind of foreigner quite exotic, including Canadians, which helps to ensure smooth transactions. On the other hand, after traveling to Canada and considering Canadians strong allies for years, the Liberal government and the resulting ripple effect among a good proportion of the population put an end to any travel, and even some purchases, e. g., Closet Maid, Molson's, for the better part of ten years now. But, enough whining. Here's what should be done. Lure the Europeans to Canada. Canada remains cheap by comparison. The open spaces and metropolitan cities on the coasts and even Calgary have more than enough beauty, restaurants and activities to lure them over. Plus, go hard after the Pacific Rim. Canada seems to have a special place in the hearts of the developed Orient, e. g., Hong Kong, Japan. Leverage it now. Those folks are rolling in the long green and it would be better spent somewhere in North America.

On top of all the other low price benefits, I find that the US is also more family friendly. Unlike Canadian businesses and tourist areas, Americans actually welcome kids. Even my favorite provincial park in Canada is getting to the point where any interaction with nature is frowned upon. It is becoming the outdoor version of my grandmothers only-to-look-at living room where everything must be preserved but never enjoyed. Must be the effects of a rapidly aging population.

The LIberal solution to the problem then?

First one up will be "Travel & Tourism needs more funding! "
Care to bet?

I read the CTV article earlier this morning - I immediately emailed it (including ALL the reader comments) to my local tourism marketing agency for Vancouver Island.

As some people here may know, I run a Salmon & Halibut Sportsfishing Guide service in Tahsis on the West Coast of the Island.

From what I have gotten, talking with other operators, bookings are down this year by some 30 to 40%. We are getting the perfect storm of high taxation, high gas prices, par dollar, and to boot, poor fishing prospects on the West Coast that while they may not hit us here, have probably spooked everyone into thinking that there are no fish anywhere on the West Coast.

It is still early to tell, but I am not getting the calls I did in the last few years.

JJM, you can't argue with the fact that between hotels, gas and food, its cheaper to go from Buffalo to Disney World for a week than it is to Muskoka.

Having been both places myself, Disney is arguably more enjoyable. The American that want to visit beautiful scenery and go canoing has Vermont right there. And the Finger Lakes, and New Hampshire...

God help you if you want to go from Buffalo to Vancouver for some whale watching. The smart tourist will go to Seattle instead.

Plus, have you seen the way people treat Americans on the road around Toronto? I used to come home from NY for Christmas etc. with my NY plates, people cut me off and gave me the finger pretty much constantly. They don't do that with an Ontario plate on the same truck.

Why the hell would they come here? Looks like they finally figured it out.

No, JJM - those ten 'fabulous' Canadian tourist destinations are hardly that unique or enticing to bring in the tourists. As I said - the US has parks, and waterfalls, and thousand lakes and mountains and wine regions and canyons and on and on...and New Orleans, and Key West..and.. Canada doesn't offer anything special in any area.

That includes heritage; go to Boston for heritage and that area. And the south and southwest. We don't have the 'visuals'.

I fully agree on the costs. Our monopoly Air Canada (which I now refuse to use for any flights) has only one agenda - money. No service.
The costs of gas, service, hotels, food etc - all outrageous.

And the unfriendliness to visitors. And especially to Americans. Why come?

With fewer tourists coming from the US and the coming downturn in the auto sector, Ontario is about to take a BIG hit economically.
But Liberals and sociallists will never retreat from their handbook, they'll just tax and spend until we are so fed up we'll elect someone who will cut taxes and program spending. Why are so many people employed in various levels of government, what is it, one in 3?
Me, I'm vacationing in the US this year, just as I did last year, booked a house on Martha's Vineyard, way less than anything in the Muskokas.

Heh, can add that "Merry Walsh" aka - nasty dry drunk, to this mix, her hatred of Americans, Republicans specifically, is as deep as her hatred those of us that didn't re-elect HER fiberal money stealing alter gods. Her good TV-land friend, George Strop..?...whatever, let her yap off her hatred for anyone NOT hating Israelis and R. Americans on his show when he was doing it from here.

They are also bitching about the sudden lack of American dollars here in QC la la land as well. Oh la la!? What ez 'appening??

Speaking of Arizona, lived there briefly, have visited since as well, can easily say, very friendly place. We'd move there if the right job opportunity came up.
Found the folks very open and welcoming.
Not like in Europe.
We do like the idea that criminals still do serious time for serious crime there, not like here, where attackers, rapists, murderers get out with a second chance within a 1-10 year period.

We do like that the sheriff's officer can shoot the bad guys dead and it's not a national crisis...

If I were an American, I'd not choose to travel here now either, our LSM ( and their's as well ) has poisoned the air.

Toronto: A nice place to live, but I wouldn’t want to visit
Posted on May 15, 2008 by Philip Preville

....This is Yonge-Dundas Square™. Actually it’s not a square; it’s an irregular polygon, just like Times Square in New York City. But it’s totally not like Times Square. It’s cleaner. And emptier. That’s a Sears there behind all that cleavage. It used to be an Eaton’s. Timothy Eaton was the greatest retailer in Canadian history. His company went bankrupt a long time ago. His stores were exactly like Sears, except that people from Rosedale would have been totally happy to be caught dead in Eaton’s. What’s Rosedale? It’s another neighbourhood! They have the nicest liquor store ever. Let’s go! No? Why not? Oh, what do you want to see the CN Tower for? It’s so touristy. And it’s not even the tallest building in the world anymore. It would be better if we visited one of my beautiful river valleys, but I don’t know where they are. Did you know Toronto is the greenest city in North America? Or at least we want it to be. Can’t you tell?....

http://www.torontolife.com/blog/preville-politics/2008/may/15/toronto-nice-place-live-i-wouldnt-want-visit/#comments

Of course anti-Americanism is one of the root causes in the lack of American visitors. "Bush Derangement Syndrome" would have a contributing effect.

If Canada is getting second in line, after Mr. Ahmadinejad, to vilify the US as the "Great Satan" is it any wonder why US tourists spend less time in Canada.

The last time I checked Mr. Bush had a distinct absence of horns erupting from his forehead, there were no cloven hoof feet, and the spade tail was no where evident. Moreover, the pitchfork has long since been discarded, and replaced by Canadian farmer's mechanized New Holland hay balers.

I mean if we are to take PM Paul Martin's "Hell or highwater" statements seriously; certainly every red blooded Canadian should be ready to give HELL a makeover.

Thus we have Blackcomb ski resort advertising "Go to Heaven, Ski like Hell."

But typically, "give 'em Hell" type statements are usually reserved for "Soldiers with guns, in your streets, in Canada. Choose your Canada."

HELLuva marketing plan wouldn't you say?

If you want tourists, you have to make Hell a little more attractive, by providing "Highwater" to cool off every once in a while!

Perhaps go back to the drawing board and showing a few example of God's country:

Last time I checked the coat of arms, our motto was "a mari usque ad mare" -- "from sea unto sea," borrowed from Psalm 72:8 "He shall have dominion from sea to sea."

One could also draw out the point that "HELL and Highwater" is inconsistent with the BNA Act 1867 provision of 'Peace, Order and Good Government" and is thus unconstitutional and is of no force or effect.

Further, "Hell and Highwater" offends Section 7 of the Charter of Rights provision of life, liberty and security of the person. "Hell and Highwater" is not saved, as it cannot be shown to be reasonable in a free and democratic society per S.24 of the Charter.

Moreover, we have to return to our marketing plan which states clear in the preamble to the Charter:

"Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law"

Clearly, "Hell and Highwater" is incompatible with the supremacy of God and should be stricken from Canada's tourist marketing plan as "God's Country".

Cheers

Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht
Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group "True North"

Sorry JJM , Carolyn Parrish's name and many like her hold a lot of pain for many.

Especially for people who had livelyhoods in growing beef, working in the softwood industry, and tourism, not to mention many other honest working people who have been negatively impacted by such a blatant disregard.

All in the name of venting their own irrational beliefs. They have caused much untolled and unnecessary injury. Who the hell votes these people in?

The oxyMORONS in Torontard really just hate themselves. Why would the American bashing be so blatant in the biggest New York wannabe city of all? Self loathing I suspect.

"We don't have the 'visuals'."

Canada?

Canada doesn't have the "visuals"?

Hello?

"Visuals" aren't the problem.

"We don't have the 'visuals'."

Canada?

Canada doesn't have the "visuals"?

Hello?

"Visuals" aren't the problem.

There are definitely places that I'd like to visit in Canada. We could argue all day about whether the US has a greater number of destinations that are attractive to me, but that's not really the important thing; there are plenty of places in Canada that I'd like to visit.

I haven't done it primarily because of the expense. I hadn't really worried about getting a nasty reception because I'm from the USA. The vast majority of the Canadians that I've encountered have been quite friendly. There have been occasional twits who have objected to my use of the term "American" to describe residents of the US (and wanted to call me a "Usanian"), but not many, and Americans aren't perfect, either.

Just to confound the argument, San Francisco, which is one of the least pleasant cities I know, because of the offensive behavior of the druggies, bums, and perverts, had a record year for tourism revenue in 2007. I don't understand.

http://www.harrynads.com/american-tourists-beware-we-will-arrest-you

Posted by Kate at June 3, 2008 10:38 AM

"Yup. It's why I do so much of my dog showing in the US right now. Not only is the competition keener, but it's cheaper than showing in Canada - a fact that's driven home the first time you're charged 25 cents for filling your travel mug with coffee."

Lots and lots of Canadians go past my place every day of the year. Mostly truckers, but also the common traveler and vacationer. I live on the two-lane state highway that is the shortcut for those from western Ontario and the western Provinces to eastern Ontario, and vice versa. Down from Thunder Bay, or crossings further west, across the UP to the Soo, or down to the crossing at Port Huron. Faster and cheaper than the trans-Superior route.

They do seem to like the cheaper prices and the service that is common to the far-Northern Midwest. They all do tend to drive a lot faster, and pay a lot more speeding tickets.

[Kate: if you're ever off to travel on that route mentioned above, and need a stop over, a note in advance would get you a free place to stay,a very large area for dogs to roam, home cooking, and FREE coffee. But, an exceedingly slow internet connection. :-)]

Until the final, health-forced, retirement last field season all of our exploration contracts were with Canadian junior mining/exploration companies poking around in the US. All of them, and the associated service companies, have been very reasonable and enjoyable to work for, with the exception of one. His strongly stated opinion, after a bottle of wine one evening, that Americans had become a fat, arrogant, and indolent people finally led us to inform him we no longer needed his business nor his money.

Stabbing the tourists isn't good for tourism.
http://www.thestar.com/Crime/article/269930

I’ve traveled to almost all the US states, all the continents except the Antarctic and more individual countries than I care to count, but living in Alberta have never been east of Saskatchewan. Why would anyone bother traveling Canada at the inflated costs and snobbish service compared to other countries? With the USD as low as it is now, far more people will be willing to go south than north, enjoying honest opinions, top service and interesting activities other than overpriced elbow to elbow camping for far less cost.

Canada is a beautiful country but so are many others and it’s not the multicultural center of the world “utopia” the elitist snobs would have everyone believe. It’s fast becoming a cultural vacuum ready to be filled with all the worlds’ worst problems and people.

I’ll pick the US over Canada any day to travel especially if trying to stretch a dime. If I feel the need to experience another culture (which I truly enjoy) I fork out a few bucks and get on a plane. Keep it where it belongs, on your side of the fence and everyone stays good neighbors.

It is not anti-Americanism per se. Speaking as an American who can see Owl's Head Mtn in Que from my back yard, but who never goes to Canada anymore. It is the money differences. But honestly, and I know this is stupid, I am having a hard time getting over having our pee wee hockey team booed in Montreal over the Gulf War. Pee Wee hockey players all over the US look at Canada the way Muslims look at Mecca, and to get booed there over politics they had nothing to do with, It is just sort of unbelievable.

iowavette,

I would say customer service in the U.S - at least in my opinion is outstanding! I fly fish about once a week in upstate NY, and without fail the service improves as soon as I cross the border. I don't even bother travelling within Ontario on fishing trips anymore - why would I. NY state has better managed resources, more accessible information and better services all around. I am absolutely baffled when I see NY plates up here in the summer.

SVJ, I've been to San Francisco. Liked the hills and the streetcars. The rest of it... well, its a city, right? LA was like a giant crap hole with some nice parts thrown in. Can't see what all the fuss about Beverly Hills is, its flat and kinda dorky. I've also been to Phoenix, NYNY (its a DUMP), Minneapolis, Boston, Chicago (drove through, kept my foot hard down the whole time)Philly (another dump), Detroit (DUMP!), St. Louis MO, Sioux Falls SD (kinda like Brantford Ontario, really), Orlando, and lots of smaller places. Lots to see, lots to do, very affordable for me as a student with no dinero. Yes, I've driven from Minnesota to Arizona. Yes, its a fun drive. Also from NYC to Phoenix, that was fun too.

I've never been to Vancouver, or anyplace west of Windsor in Canada. Mostly because it was too frickin' expensive and too far to drive (remember, NYC to Phoenix, not afraid to drive far), and once you get there it looks like Toronto if you're lucky. In the case of Wienerpeg it looks like Hamilton.

I've been to Montreal, its just like Toronto except the chicks are a bit better dressed and people are rude as hell. Quebec City has some very nice buildings with really rude@ss people living in them. Rode my motorcycle to Halifax once, nice ride except for Quebec, not much to look at once I got there.

The one, single thing we used to do better than the Yanks was parks. Historically, national and provincial parks in Canada were nice, safe and beautiful. And cheap. Unfortunately this is changing to un-safe and expensive, just like everything else around here.

Craigleith Provincial Park, on Georgian Bay, $75 a night for a (1) tent spot. !!! I about lost my eyesight on that one, not long ago it was ten bucks. We'll see how many drunks I have to beat up when I go for my two night camp-out in July.

Look on the bright side. With a decline in tourism, carbon emissions will drop substantially.

having lived here in WI for 9 yrs now , I have noticed that the only news of Canada that makes the national broadcasts down here is few and far between and almost always negative and anti-american.

It has come to the point that I no longer admit that I am Canadian .

Leftists have done their best to turn Canada into a third-world pestilential hellhole. However, unlike most officially third-world countries, it's an EXPENSIVE hell hole.

Even from a leftist perspective Canada is a bust. Compare CBC to PBS. Compare (for entertainment value) Obama with Jack Layton - sure, Jack looks like Lenin but he just doesn't deliver on the mayhem. Or Hillary vs Elizabeth May.

One mustn't forget Air Canada's own special contribution to travel in Canada!

Never mind American tourists - certainly in Newfoundland most people wanting a vacation head for Florida or "the Dominican" rather than to Canadian destinations, and I imagine it's much the same elsewhere.

I'd suggest that when Robert Mugabe is eventually thrown out of Zimbabwe he should be encouraged to run for Mayor of Toronto. That should take care of tourism in TO, and much else beside.

"But honestly, and I know this is stupid, I am having a hard time getting over having our pee wee hockey team booed in Montreal over the Gulf War."

Tim - this is not stupid at all. It made a lasting impression on you to Canada's detriment.

Those who booed should be ashamed.

I doubt they have any shame though, as the last round of hockey riots in Montréal clearly demonstrated.

Silicon Valley Jim - "Usanian"? That's the most asinine thing I've ever heard and any Canadian who would use such a term on an American visitor deserves a swift kick to the posterior.

I hear you Tim, they have no merit in LSM land...bash Americans is the Canadian way now.

Just like when cbc went on strike, they pumped in non-stop "I hate Americans" emails from Brits daily, just for our enlightenment of course, this is what the heads of cbc provided for broadcast service during that time...and on our over taxed tab.

When I objected on a BBC site at the time, (cbc never responded to my written complaint..) they banned me! Found a blog that was linking and fawning about bbc so I left my comment on that blog... next day the whole post, comments and all poof - gone.

And then there is the celebrated Canadian politeness. I've had many experiences shopping in Canda and in the US which have gone more or less as follows:

American shopkeeper: "Whaddya want?"
Me: "I'd like a dodad."
American shopkeeper: "There y'are. That's two bucks."

Canadian shopkeeper: "Oh good day sir! And how might I assist you on this fine day?"
Me: "I'd like a dodad"
Canadian shopkeeper: "Oh my gracious sir - a 'do' - a 'do-dad'. I'm really not sure ... what is it? Oh I know .... no, I'm terribly sorry, but we don't currently stock dodads. We do have widgets. Would a widget do?"
Me: "I really need a dodad".
Canadian shopkeeper: "You might try at Canadian Tire."
Canadian Tire: "You're in luck. We have one dodad left"
Me: "How much?"
Canadian Tire: "That will be $12.50. Plus HST."

God bless America.

Tim in Vermont >

That wasn't Canada that booed your little league team it was “French Canada”! Listen to Mark Steyns comments on the difference between English & French Canada’s support for the US and Americans. (I don’t have a link readily available, but he has made the comparisons a few times and should be found with a little legwork). This includes the original support for the Iraq war, which was at the time well supported by English Canada and subsequently vetoed by the French Canadian special status in government to do so. I wouldn’t know if the wars support would be the same today due to the ability to see the mismanaging of it, but that would be no different than the diminished support within the US itself today.
I’m not attempting to make hostile comments about French Canadians either, because I don’t know any personally. I am pointing out that there is a tremendous difference between regions within Canada and views within those regions about Americans. Mark Steyn makes those points clear and the mainstream media only beams the negative, which comes predominantly from a minority group with “special status” in an isolated region.

Living in a tourist town, 5 minutes from the American border, I have been sounding this warning for years.

We have had local aldermen(yes, aldermen, 2 f#$%ing bad if it is politically incorrect)burning their flags, insulting them, calling them war mongers, etc, etc, etc.

These idiotic actions(as if some working class family from Syracuse is responsible for the Iraq war)garner front page attention in these border cities, and always with the resultant "why do they hate us?" headline.

The economy of Ontario is in a tailspin(caused by 5 years of chimpy mcliar and his merry band of liberal idiots)and they deserve every hard lick they get!

Thank god we have wealth, and my wife is a nurse!

VICTORIA HERE WE COME.....PUT OUT THE WELCOME MAT SHAMROCK!

remember Ontario re-elected her- now they whine like a dog tied to a hayrack because there arent any yankee tourists. ontario deserves every backhand slap it gets for every forehand one it hands out. Creten (small town cheap) is the same.

the Story of Carolyn Parrish
. On her way out of a meeting, Parrish was overheard on a boom mike saying "Damn Americans, I hate the bastards." She later told the media that her comments were directed towards George W. Bush and his administration and not the American people as a whole. Members of the opposition Canadian Alliance party called for her to be punished by then Liberal leader and Prime Minister Jean Chrétien, but no punishment occurred.

After the widespread media attention on this incident, she remained popular in her home riding. After electoral redistribution leading up to the 2004 election, she faced fellow Liberal MP Steve Mahoney in a nomination battle and narrowly won. She was re-elected with 54% of the vote in the general election, against 32% for her Conservative opponent.

In August 2004, Parrish again created controversy by referring to those supporting the North American missile defence proposal as "a coalition of the idiots", mocking the phrase "coalition of the willing" used by Bush describing the American-led alliance in the invasion of Iraq. Paul Martin, who had succeeded Chrétien as Prime Minister, asked her to use more tact and discretion when sharing her opinions about such subjects but stopped short of asking her to apologize.

Following the November U.S. election, she expressed shock at the re-election of George W. Bush. She said that "America is completely out of touch with the rest of the free world" and blamed this on collective "extreme psychological damage" due to the September 11, 2001 attacks. When Conservative Party members called on her to apologize for these remarks she said that such comments "are in the best traditions of free speech and independence of thought." These comments came just hours after Paul Martin warned his MPs in a private caucus meeting not to make incendiary comments in the wake of the U.S. election. Parrish explained that she wasn't at the meeting, but that even if she had been, it wouldn't have stopped her from speaking her mind.

Isn't it amazing that these intolerant US bashers are often the same people that preach tolerance towards fundamental Muslims?

As an American, let me speak up for Canadians. I visit Canada every couple of years or so, usually in the West -— I have relatives in rural BC (Okanagan/Similkameen area -- mostly ranchers), used to have relatives in Calgary (Americans in oil business) and friends in BC and Ontario.

The drop in the American dollar compared to the Canadian does make it more expensive to go nowadays, but I must say that I have never experienced overt hostility as an American.

Once or twice, maybe a whiff of "you knuckle-dragging gun-loving Americans" but just a whiff. The most prejudiced, not surprisingly, were former American draft-dodgers of the Vietnam era, like the guy running the used bookstore in Nelson, BC. (I suppose the less-bitter ones went home after Jimmy Carter gave them amnesty.)

Never saw or heard of any vandalism to cars with American license plates.

The level of service in stores, restaurants, hotels, etc. always seemed comparable to that at home.

I used to stay overnight in prov. parks a lot -- in the 1980s-90s. If the prices have shot up, thanks for the warning.

As for French Canada, I can't say, but I do have a conference to attend in Montreal in 2009, so I suppose I will find out.

I spoke with a friend of mine here in Saskatoon recently...he owns a small construction business. He insisted that we need to trade with China MUCH MORE, as the US is ripping us off all the time.

I was dumbfounded. His wife was quietly shaking her head, so I know at least one of them has brains.

Of course, I have a soft spot for our American friends, they pick up our wounded in Afghanistan for us (we can't), and the Marines are fighting beside us there now.

My kids are going to the US once they're done school, taking our name and efforts to a real country.

What we need is a new tourism slogan! That would fix things right up.

"Canada: World Class Third World" has a certain ring to it.

Here in Grey/Bruce we have seen the steady decline in US tourists for years, More noticebly the past few. We would see tourist make the trip north up the Bruce Penninsula to catch the MS Chi-Cheemaun from Tobermory to Manitoulin Island in order to go this route to S.S.Marie. While in the area many would stop here in Owen Sound on the edge of Georgian Bay to Sunning on the sandy shores of Sauble Beach on lake huron, or explore the Bruce Trail or have a scenic trip around Flower Pot Island before boarding the ferry. Quite often staying over in the provincial parks or at local motel.
Now we see more Toronto people who have never been to the area mainly because of the traffic on the 400N to the high desity or cost of the Muskoka's. With the high cost of fuel are we going to see even this traffic, Who Knows? My business is on hwy 6 north just on the outskirts of Owen Sound, If the lack of traffic may 24 weekend was any indication(regardless of the weather,never stopped them before) i would say the tourist oriented & seasonal business's in the area are going to suffer, Don't matter if its a Canadian or american traveller.

I might add that i have not seen any hatred in this area towards our American friends, Even our local legion here has a sister branch in Miamisburg Ohio and they go back & forth yearly on trips of friendship. I would say there is more disgust for people from toronto, That have moved here. In fact the liberals have been bringing in the high profile boys for fund raisers and have targeted the 2 conservative ridings. They(liberals) have even said the reason is because of torontonians retiring up here, so they figure us hicks are easy pickings.

Read the comments in the ctv article there is even one that blames the Government for Not implementing Kyoto & for social changes as reason the drop in tourists.

My guesstimate, for the Kingston area, over the past 20 years or so, is that has been mostly elitist arseholes associated with our local university.

And the sad thing is, they fly our flag all over the place, including their local PBS station, and they truly feel that we are almost brothers.

I know one thing for sure. I can relate more with an upstate New Yorker than I can with a pequiste.

BrianR
Having lived in "The Sound" many years ago and subsequently in Meaford for awhile, I can only sympathize with you when the Tranna people decide to come to town.In my opinion, they have destroyed
beautiful towns in Ontario with their holier than thou attitudes and yuppy pursuits. One acquaintance of mine purchased a farm house near Meaford and leased his land to a local farmer, only to complain to the farmer that he didn't like the "cows" being close to his home.
Canadians should clean up their act before complaining about our US friends.

Having visited approximately 80% of US states, and having just returned, last week, from a 16 state roadtrip, I have to agree with ET regarding 'attractions'; things that are considered 'special' in Canada are generally commonplace, and often unheralded, in the States, (trails, lakes, rivers, etc, etc).

Just one example of costs, before leaving I picked up a pair of Clark's sandals at the Bay for $100, I saw the same pair for $60 in Mississippi.

I think you are too hard on Canada, but some things will piss-off “this” American that may not be evident.

In the 90's an aid to PM Cretin (SP) called Clinton an ignorant bastard American. (He was late to a meeting in Europe) Now I am a Republican but don't be disrespecting MY President, unless you are an American... that includes Bush

The Pee-wee Hockey thing was BAD; I think PPL took that to be Ugly.

The CBC Town Hall meetings after 9/11… I saw that programming but it’s lucky that most Americans missed the sick display of "HATE" America.

Canada had the Status "MOST FAVORED NATION" before NAFTA, but something happened. The BSE issue was fueled by the Canadian Media.. If they had just shut up and reported that things in Canada where under control.. It would have ended sooner. (The medis was blaming the US)

BTW: Canada could have sued for compensation from Montana Cow/Calf.

As an addendum: We live in an eastern suburb of Ottawa, and one of our walks, when the trails near us are muddy/icy, is a one-hour main street(s) loop........there is a continual trail of tossed garbage, in fact I'd say we see more trash on this one walk than we saw on our 16 state trip...TOTAL!

I just drove back from Kenora to Sudbury over the past two days. What did I see? Hunting fishing lodges running at less than 50% capacity.

The banning of the spring bear hunt has had a major impact on the economics of the lodges. I saw 5 black bears feeding on roadside grass during the latter part of the trip. It used to be rare to see a black bear. They are obviously more numerous and less afraid of humans. Blame the Ontario government for the next bear attack!

ET @1103, and others:

All nice points. Sigh. Sometimes I dispair of Canadians.

I can sit amongst perfectly nice middle-class, suburban, educated (but apparently ignorant) dinner party types and just find myself repeating:

"That's not true"
"The Americans are good/on our side/benign"
"You are jelaous of Americans"
"Why are you racist?"
"You reveal your inferiority complex".

I’ll ditto that opinion and add some more as a Canadian who has lived & worked around the world including the US and with peoples from many nations. If it were a choice working abroad with Canadian’s or American’s I’d personally pick the American every time. Other Canadian’s I’ve worked with agree with that point. Reason: Other Canadian’s are generally arrogant in an “I’m better at everything than you” attitude unlike the occasional American arrogance of “I come from a better country than you”. Not that they do the job any better than us, but they don’t feel like they need to be stroked like a cat every time they do a good job and without a doubt do not backstab nearly as often as their Canadian counterparts. In fairness employees of the UK are about the same as Canadians in that regard. The Australians are also good in that respect (less tendency to backstab) but do tend to be constant or chronic complainers.

Those were just a few personal opinions of English speaking first world employees of similar but not countries. Again I’ve worked with every other culture at one point or another and each has its good and bad characteristics. Some are only bad in my opinion.

why would anyone in America want to visit socialist Canada?
the weather is lousy, its far too expensive, Canadians are miserable, the media is anti-American and there's nothing to do ....
get your money out of Canada while you can because it's all downhill from here

Knoght99 @2.44

That's a cheap get-out. Anglo Canadians are just as likely to do that.

nemo2 @ 6.32:

"Having visited approximately 80% of US states, and having just returned, last week, from a 16 state roadtrip, I have to agree with ET regarding 'attractions'; things that are considered 'special' in Canada are generally commonplace, and often unheralded, in the States, (trails, lakes, rivers, etc, etc).

Yes, but I have made a similar comparison with Australia. The plain truth is that much of Canada is STILL innacessible. Much of it, probably, having never been set foot upon by man. Also, I believe, tundra is really boring after the initial awesome visual.

RW>

“That's a cheap get-out. Anglo Canadians are just as likely to do that.”

It really wasn’t intended to be. As I stated I personally have had next to zero exposure to French Canada other than media and have in no grievances with them in anyway. I was simply stating an opinion based on what I perceive in the news on such issues and commentaries such as Styen on the same.

What I will say is that growing up and living in Alberta is that the general population is overwhelming and supportive of the US, much more so in many ways than of French Canada. Of course you’re going to have both French and English Canadians both support and begrudge the US, that’s the same anywhere. I’m writing in generalities, the bulk of a regional consensus.

Anyway the point I’m making was that my comment was in no way impassioned, or meant to point fingers or scapegoat. It was intended as an unbiased observation from one western English Canadians point of view.

only noticed small diffs twixt Cans&Amers when travelling. I think the problem is in pockets of hostility, smuggy, morally selfrighteous twits, and besides, Ont tourism problems all belong to mcassweep.

My brother’s experience as a hunting guide near Meadow Lake; Americans are bigger tippers.

Live in Southern Ont. and have only visited Ont. Que. and the Atlantic provinces. When heading to the Soo, we go via the States. Travelling back from the east coast we travel through the States, If I was heading to Winnipeg I would take the short cut through the states. Have family in Toronto but bi-pass it in my travels - take the toll road around it and head to Northern ON.

I've flown to Ireland and the British Isles. It's less expensive than flying to BC. When flying anywhere in the world I travel to the States and catch a plane there. I will visit anywhere in Canada if I can access it through the States. The reasons is quite obvious - it's financial.

When one tries to come into Canada and is held up at customs for over 4 hours, and given the 3rd degree, once is enough and they will never come back. Word of mouth keeps others from trying. Especially if they have some joyriding charge from 20 yrs ago on their record. We see lots of examples of one allowed in but the family has to stay in the States. We have also heard of cdns, who live and work in the US, who bought american cars in the US, not being allowed to bring the car into canada when coming to visit.

There are many reasons to visit America the Beautiful. All good reasons; listed by many posters above.

One reason for people like my better half and I to always go to America for holidays has not been mentioned: siply put. the fanatical smoking bans in Canada.

We go to friendly states where we and our habit and are $$ are treated with respect; we don't bother patronizing any establishment where we do not get that appreciation. We were in N. California last year and the hotel did not have a smoking room so the owner told us to go and sit on his own porch to smoke and eat our dinner! Americans did not look at us like we had horns growing out of our heads when we asked if anyone minded if we smoked.

We do not go to the east coast or the west coast because we love the mid west and the people who live there. We are small town/country people and Montana was like going home for me - I grew up on the Montana border - Canada looks very unattractive when a person is headed home through Montana - the first snippy remark you hear makes a person want to head back where people are friendly.

We used to go to Alberta for a good portion of our holidays because it was a fun and relaxed place to be - not any more! We go visit our friends (who also smoke) and BBQ at their place. I am not whining I am just stating the way it is...there are plenty more people like us!

[quote]Not that they do the job any better than us, but they don’t feel like they need to be stroked like a cat every time they do a good job and without a doubt do not backstab nearly as often as their Canadian counterparts. In fairness employees of the UK are about the same as Canadians in that regard. [/quote]

Knight99,
If you have one Brit working for an American Company all is normal but add another, and they the Brits, backstab each other. We Americans call it the Brit Factor. Its kind of funny actually, once you understand that they are prone to exaggeration you just have to keep them apart like barnyard roosters. Canadians don’t have that problem IMO

I am sure the Americans will rush to visit and embrace us after the opposition just voted to give deserters the right to stay in Canada.
Whenever I come across american visitors the first thing I tell them is do not use american cash if you have a credit card or debit card. Cdns ripped off so many via exchange when the dollar was under par.

I'm an American living in Canada. On Sept 11, 2001 I had people come into my vet clinic, see me crying and say, "I guess Americans will have to rethink their foreign policy decisions now, eh? Americans brought this on themselves."

The first 4 years (out of 10) that I was here, I heard anti-American comments every single day. After 9/11, there was about a year's grace period before they started again.

It baffles me how wound up Canadians get about the American elections yet they don't even bother to vote in their own. There is an Obama '08 sign up in my neighborhood in London, ON.

Hello? Not your country, you don't even live there? Not your issue, eh?

I live only 60 k's from US border,and do all my shopping there.Prices way cheaper on a lot of things..2 pks of smokes for $4.00,as opposed to $13/pk here!I find the store owners,the people I chat with are great,and love our Canadian money.I go across at a very rural crossing,no line up,no problems.Also,my hubby flew float planes for a fly-in fishing lodge in Northern Man about 10 yrs ago (he did this for 5 yrs).The majority of the guests were Americans,and there were a lot of promotional tours from big companies (Valspar etc),and hubby said they were the best!They tipped everyone,loved our great outdoors,and caught lots of fish.OTOH,the Canadian guests were rude,obnoxious,and wanted everything for nothing.A lot of these Lodges are really hurting now,and I for one don't blame the Americans for not wanting to come visit,and spend money in a country where they are bashed repeatedly.

Kyla at June 3, 2008 11:43 PM >

Sounds like you need a Conservative province to live in. Lot's of needs for vets out west. I’m truly appalled to hear American first hand accounts such as yours and couldn’t imagine that your story would have occurred in Calgary, Red Deer, Edmonton, Camrose, Med Hat ect……….I didn’t hear those kind of comments from the Algerians when I flew into Algeria Sept 15/01………Disgraceful.

Please don't be so hard on yourselves. True, you have some silly anti-American politicians -- but so do we. In fact, I would be glad to trade you Seattle Congressman Jim McDermott for Carolyn Parish. (On second thought, maybe I wouldn't make that trade, because I value our many Canadian friends.)

I don't know about the costs for tourism in Canada, but I do know that many Americans from the Seattle area go up to Victoria for the charm, Vancouver for the experiences, and Whistler for the skiing.

(I have somewhat more exotic tastes and hope to visit Mt. Garibaldi and the Burgess shale some time within the next few years.)

And I hope that you will continue to visit the US, and that you will always be welcomed when you do.

I am a Calgarian and I write for a magazine based in the UK. My London editor said he was shocked and perplexed at the anti-American mail the mag receives on a regular basis--- from Canadians--- and said he considered it to be racist. I agree, and as a citizen of this country, I apologize to our friends and neighbours to the south.I don't understand it either, as I have many American friends and in general, find US folks to be generally very open and welcoming...

I am a Calgarian and I write for a magazine based in the UK. My London editor said he was shocked and perplexed at the anti-American mail the mag receives on a regular basis--- from Canadians--- and said he considered it to be racist. I agree, and as a citizen of this country, I apologize to our friends and neighbours to the south.I don't understand it either, as I have many American friends and in general, find US folks to be generally very open and welcoming...

I am an american married to a canadian who lived in Canada for many years. The political tone has always been virulantly anti american although the average person is I think relatively neutral in their personal view.Canada has many fine features but has a dysfunctional multicultural aura that produces a profound insecurity as a nation/ It has a massive crime rate you can check the Vancouver Sun website to read of drugs guns murders etc everyday.I too have found prices there extremly high and now poor value ie my wife and I just paid 69 dollars to cross from Vsncouver to Nanaimo one way.I also notice a marked drop in tourism in downtown Vancouver and the movie business has dried up all presumably due to the canadian dollar on par.

Those few Americans who, a while ago, cared enough to visit Canada now widely view Canadians as the most vocal of Canadians wanted to be identified: Canada is the "Not America".

So: Yank Tourism is down?

Eat the scenery, eh.

well I live about 3 hours (the road sucks!) drive from tofino and if you can stand the hippies then you're welcome to it.

This Canadian is vacationing in the U.S. right now. Live near Vancouver, vacationing in Bend, Oregon. We've been taking most of our holidays in the western states for the last 15 years. Why? Lots of parks and attractions that you can actually get to and are cheap or free, cheap but quality accommodations, almost everybody speaks English understandably, service is good, and it's safer. The last one is true everywhere outside of ghettoes in Oakland and Sacramento, and is especially true in state and national parks, which are regularly patrolled by armed police. In comparison B.C. seems to have given up on law enforcement. If you're in a B.C. park and a couple of boom cars or pickup trucks roll in full of beer-sodden local yahoos -- a regular occurrence BTW -- you're on your own. Yes there are jerk Americans, but 90% of them live within 30 miles of the ocean. Avoiding them is easy.

Canadians hate to be mistaken for Americans abroad, or so goes the legend. I have heard this one both in Australia and England, I have worked both places. An Australian told me that he never asks someone who sounds North American if he is American, he always ask if he is Canadian. Americans are amused by the guess, but if you misidentify a Canadian as American, you have blown any chance for a nice conversation.

Then I was in Scottland staying in a cheap room over a pub and outside drinking were some Canadians. They were talking REALLY LOUD, like Americans tend to do abroad, and Australians too, I have noticed. They were talking about how it was really Canadians who developed the computer, but the Americans took all the credit. I remember thinking "no wonder people mistake them for Americans. Just listen to them"

I have been thinking about it and I am officially over the hockey booing thing. Canadian support in Afghanistan makes up for it and then some. We should stick to what is real, actions, not words.

I've always pitied the anti-American among us. It requires a depth of ignorance that borders on disability.

I travel quite a bit and meet lots of Americans and I tell you they are a great people and love Canadians. If someone thinks only Amnericans are loud, they should visit or parks, bars and sporting events.....loudmouths are everywhere. One day my wife and I will have the guts to leave this country and move to a country (USA) where people stand for something and is still strong and free.

Tim in Vermont>

“I have been thinking about it and I am officially over the hockey booing thing. Canadian support in Afghanistan makes up for it and then some”.

Mighty big of you Tim! You’re welcome here anytime (and always were).

From 1996 - 2000 I traveled frequently from Los Angeles to Canadian cities and made about 8 trips to Toronto. My flights to Toronto arrived at Pearson Airport about the same time as a flight from the Middle East.

It was hard not to notice that passengers arriving from the Middle East were waved through the entrance hall quickly and cheerfully while those of us arriving from the U.S. got a lengthy grilling from stern, scowling officials.

I was a widower with small kids and often brought my younger daughters on those trips. On our eighth visit to Toronto, officials detained me and my daughter separately for several hours while determining the whereabouts of my late wife. When released, I was warned not to return to Canada without her death certificate.

We loved Toronto and there may have been a good reason for our detention at the airport, but on the whole, I'd rather submit to painful oral
surgery than take another trip through Pearson Airport.