I'm sure glad that I've never been to Toronto. It sounds as if it's a very dangerous place. It will undoubtedly be much safer once this plan is implemented. There's so much evidence that passing laws reduces crime.

David Miller is an idiot. The people who supported and continue to support him – here Margaret Atwood’s stupid smiling face comes to mind – are idiots. The doofus himself said

"It's about a value. Do we as a society value safety, or do we value a hobby that creates danger? And nobody can deny that that hobby directly results in people being shot and killed on the streets of our city. Those are the facts. And they're provable again and again and again."

The lengths to which Miller and other leftist idiots will avoid putting blame on perpetrators, of actually apprehending and incarcerating them, is astounding.

Outlawing murder?

Wow! What a concept!

While he is at it, could he do something about gravity too? It's keeping the disadvantaged down...

SOS . . .

Stuck
On
Stupid

Send help. Urgent!

Set You Free: Wunderbar!

Next we will have the the mayor declare in a GRAVE and unctuous tone:

The KILLER is a MURDERER!

Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht
Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group "True North"

You have to understand the mentality of leftist morons like mayor david miller.

He is a true left-wing ideologue.

Mayor miller only attacks legitimate gun owners because they are,for the most part,WHITE MALES that vote conservative.
In other words his political "competition",or rather his "enemies".

He totally ignores the fact that for the last 35 years STRAIGHT,without exception,greater than 80 percent of all gun crimes in Toronto have been committed by Negroes and other visible minorities.

Mayor miller ignores this because Non-Whites are NOT his competition in life,but White Male Conservatives are.

He will do just about anything,and he will say any baldfaced lie against law abiding gun owners(conservatives),but not one word will come out of his mouth to address the criminal hand holding the gun,pulling the trigger.

The mind boggles! What is he planning on doing about enforcing his 'new' law? The cops will be sooo pleased to hear about this...

This man is ahead of his time.

What incredible fool this Miller is. I do believe he is mentally ill.

I have a dog that sleeps by my chair. Whenever I hear a stray dog bark, I kick my dog. I've been applying this anti-barking program with ever- bigger boots and ever-harder kicks for years. It sends the right message. It hasn't actually reduced the barking, but you gotta give the program a chance to work ....

This is as much about intellectually stunted, half-wit soccer moms as it is about the scumbag, leftard politicians who pander to their hysterical, irrational fear.

A pox on them both.

This man is surely ahead of his time.

Despite the fact that it has been proven that gun bans increase rather than decrease violent crime, I think that this is a good idea. Usually these failed ideas are imposed on all Canadians at the behest of the large cities. This time just Toronto will experience the unintended results.

" ... but not one word will come out of his mouth to address the criminal hand holding the gun,pulling the trigger." No, it's a communal problem you see. Individuals have no prime responsibility, besides, jail doesn't work. You knew that didn't you?

Since all guns will be banned, the police won't need firearms either; even fewer guns making it that much safer on the streets.

Insanity rears its head, opens its mouth, and talks
"policy"...
The alternative really is to decriminalize it and make murder legal, so nobody will be interested in it anymore and you can get your needles and bullets from the free-clinic...

Hans:

I'm anxiously awaiting Miller's declaration on the sanctity of human life.

But then, I predict he will be hesitant to go there.

Human history apparently started the moment this self-centered idiot was born.

And, of course, nobody in human history has dealt with the concept of ‘thou shalt not kill' before the annointed one came up with the idea for this proposed law.

Mayor Pushes To Make Shooting People Illegal In Toronto

You mean all this time it was legal?
Hey lets outlaw all crime next or maybe say nothing is a crime, therefore you have none.

I didn't know David Miller was a god who controls all human emotion so all aggression from man disappears. Will he spread his aura around Toronto inducing a narcotic effect on there populace?

Or will he bore all & sundry into moving. I bet he sets up a public rat line. In all the history of man on Earth only David Miller can defeat human nature. Ladies & gentlemen our answer to Al Gore. David Miller.

Miller and McGuinty are leftists. That means that they define themselves as an elite, which is to say, as people who are of a higher intellect, morals and knowledge than...everyone else. As such, we dimwit peasants require their governance.

The leftist assumption is that we peasants do not, on our own, take any initiative. We act only because of the influence of others or the influence of objects.

We murder only if we have a gun. And, according to Miller, the guns all come from the USA. Stop the guns, and the violence will cease.
Now, Miller is declaring that even as a sport, the gun is, itself, a cause of violence.

The leftist mind is incredible. I have to admit I'm always stunned at the vacuity, the open-spaces, the vast nothingness of the leftist mind.

They refuse to acknowledge the perpetrator of violence. The individual. Who orders and buys the gun. The individual who takes it with him on a robbery. The individual who uses it to 'settle scores' between gangs. None of these intentional acts have any reality to the leftist.

Because their view of the peasantry is that peasants don't think or have intentions (good or evil intentions). Peasants only act on orders - ordered to be violent because of violent videos; or ordered by their violent guns.

Therefore, stop the videos, stop the guns. And presto - no more violence.

Same mindset as the HRC leftists. They too view Canadians as mindless peasants who behave as they do because they are programed and motivated by Others or by Objects. Such as reading opinions, such as a video, such as a gun.

Meanwhile, violence in Toronto continues to escalate. Each week, we hear about not only shootings but knifings - a favourite weapon. The perpetrator is often someone out on parole or bail. The driver of the stolen car has lost his licence for previous infractions. And still, Miller and McGuinty continue to ignore that these 'peasants' have, on their own, made these decisions to rob, steal, knife, gun down.

No- according to the left, the basic cause is The Object. Not the human being. Incredible.

When can we get alcohol banned?

I lost 30 IQ points just reading about it!

Shaken - I am still shaking from laughter over the gravity comment. I shall have to remember that one.

Well, everything that could be said has been said here. For me it is rather like trying to figure out how a grasshopper thinks when it comes to understanding what makes people vote for these space cadets.

The universe is a living organism.

Earth is part of the universe.

Guns, like the universe and earth, are by logica extention, also living objects with minds of their own.

Only fools would see the universe, earth and guns as inanimate objects. We, the wise, know all these so-called inanimate objects contain wills of their own.

So sayeth Gaia.

Is Miller worrying about his own safety? He's like a gopher, he pops out of his hole when there's been a shooting or to make just this sort of announcement. Is he worried about the safety of his own Socialist arse?

Hand guns have been regulated since the thirties and in this civil society, governed by the rule of law it is illegal to shoot people anywhere in the land.
Of course Toronto isn't just anywhere, it's off in a Socialist fog, a real true Lefty haven, isolated from reality. It's the bastion from which the Liberals have kept power for decades due to unloading all the immigrants they dumped there and told to vote Liberal or terrible things would befall them.

This is as stupid as the "war on drugs". If someone wants to get high, no matter what the law says, they will get high. If someone wants to shoot someone, they will shoot someone, no matter what moonbat miller has to say about it.

Toronto is a multicultural sewer, and I wish them good luck.

Mayor David Miller announced... a plan today that would make all murders illegal in Toronto

Brilliant! Why, he could declare Toronto a "Murder free zone" and that would all but solve the problem! That Miller feller, he's a politician I could learn to like ~~

Well there you have it...proof that he has never heard of the Ten Commandments...

or he thinks he's a deity.

Well said ET. Self accountability seems to be lost on people like that. It's always someone else's fault.

“This is about the mayor’s need to be seen doing something about gun violence,”

Because being seen to do something is much easier, and politically safer, than actually doing something.

And in this case, the doing would be an admission that every stupid lefty idea has been an abysmal failure. It's much better to come up with even stupider ideas to "solve" the problem.

One more time with feeling, the leftist mind does not acknowledge “evil”. Therefore, to the left it is the gun that causes the crime not the evil person. To a leftist all people are good , all are equal ; if they do harm it is caused by an object, a gun or caused by a system that isn’t “progressive” enough to redistribute resources.

I was talking to some cops recently and asked them if was just me or does Miller have a pathological abhorrence of cops and of the simple process of catching and convicting those that break the law. These cops were seasoned and had lots of experience with the politics of their jobs, yet they confirmed that Miller is basically a cop hater.

The man is a graduate of Harvard Law school, he’s had a privileged education ; how did he end up with such a warped view of reality?

Cops without guns? Wonderful - I suppose they will use tasers. What about the Miller's bodyguard? Are they to be disarmed?

Have *any* gun homicides in TO over, say, the last 10 years been committed with a *legal* handgun?

In Britain's inner cities, where gun control is very strict, apparently the "kids" are switching to knives. More personal that way, no doubt.

As the other 'her blondess' Paris Hilton would say..."that's hot'

I don't think that the leftist view, nomdeblog, is simply that the peasants are basically good. I think that it's that the peasants are incapable of reason, thought, self-governance. They are empty vessels and must be guided and programmed.

If they are programmed badly (according to the elites) by 'not being loved enough' then they will 'turn out bad'. If they are programmed correctly (via lots of basketball courts) then they'll be OK. They'll be subservient, amenable and controllable.

This is a totalitarian view, held by such esteemed leftists as Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Marx, and yes, Plato. And by Miller and McGuinty.

The way to deal with the 'bad behaviour' of the peasantry is, besides programming them, via lots of social workers - to prevent them from having access to Bad Objects..which will program them just because they are Bad Objects. Guns. Videos. And the HRC believes - Bad Words Spoken/Written by Others.

Remember, the left views the mass as empty vessels, and the Duty of the Left is to control what goes into these vessels. The left rejects that the mass has any mind, any decision-making capacity, any agential forces of their own. It's all about programming.

Kathryn: Bang on! Actually doing something has political risks. The workable program will have it's highs and lows as it slowly progresses. This gives political enemies opportunity. Compare it to the war in Iraq or Afghan.
I believe Miller has even stated in the past that a ban is unlikely to work but the symbolism of appearing to do something is a must.

He missed something and that would be the knife as a weapon. If he really wanted to do something constructive he would ban all knives and forks, issue each person in Toronto a spoon, then we would see results.

Mayor Dave has moved in the Official Phantom Rankings from "useful idiot wrangler" to "dangerous saboteur".

Leaving aside the issues of personal rights to property and self defense, immigration and the rest of it, Mayor Dave is doing EXACTLY what a series of New York City, Washington DC, New Orleans, Boston, Philadelphia, and Chicago mayors did 20 to 30 years ago.

We're talking gun bans, racial sensitivity for cops, megabucks spent on "root causes", catch-and-release, clean needle centers, the lot. Its all been done, and it lead to the near destruction of America's great cities.

The one, lonely policy which has worked in Rudy Giuliani's "Broken Windows" approach. Bust nuisance crimes like graffiti and petty theft, work your way up the food chain by busting storefronts for fire and health violations, etc. Pretty soon, all the violent criminals are IN JAIL having been busted for spitting and discovered to be carrying a gun and drugs too. Giuliani reduced the murder rate in NYC by double digits every year he was in office using that.

Miller KNOWS this. He knows. He's not a fool. Therefore I can only conclude he has some kind of vested interest in the increasing decay of law and order in Toronto, or is the lackey of somebody who does.

Somebody please show the leftards how to use google. Then they could have found this all by themselves.

"Shadow home affairs minister James Brokenshire said: “The rise in gun crime demonstrated by these figures is alarming.” This of course was in an article dated August 2007, a full ten years after guns were banned.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1561107/Britain's-rising-levels-of-gun-crime.html

Kate; How come when I try to post I get a message that says my post has to be approved. I've always been a good boy and I promise to stay that way.

Silicon Valley Jim: Notwithstanding that I see the wit in your post, Toronto is actually quite a safe city with respect to violent crime. The crime rate tends to rise as one heads west in Canada and is much higher in cities like Winnipeg, Regina or Vancouver. The gun violence is mainly restricted to a few well known geographic areas of the city and within a well defined demographic. Stay away from those and you will almost certainly be safe.

Miller reminds me of an interview last year by Andy Barrie on CBC radio in Toronto. Barrie was speaking with someone regarding the banning of handguns thus reducing the number of murders. Barrie brought up the UK where handguns were banned after the Dunblaine massacre expecting the number of gun homicides had dropped. There was palpable surprise when the guest stated that gun murders have actually increased notwithstanding the ban. Reality can be a bitch.

Deductive reasoning is obviously not one of Mayor Miller's strong suits. He wants to take guns out of the hands of honest law abbiding citizens and that will stop murders from occuring in Toronto. Lets fast-forward to having accomplished that. Now Mayor Miller observes with absolute surprise and dismay that there are still lots of murders and other gun crimes in Toronto. But how can this happen???!!!

Its the old saying, David - when you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns. There is another saying that gun control advocates just love to hate and that is "guns don't kill, people kill."

The stupidity of David Miller and Dalton McGuinty know no bounds.

ET “If they are programmed badly (according to the elites) by 'not being loved enough' then they will 'turn out bad'. If they are programmed correctly (via lots of basketball courts) then they'll be OK. They'll be subservient, amenable and controllable.”

Yes and those are all external factors causing the bad. It allows the individual off the hook of accountability .. because they cannot be bad … it is their environment of no love or no basketball courts; that is what causes the bad … there are no bad people … only bad objects like guns .. ban the guns and we’ll achieve the perfect world of utopia that Miller believes is possible.

These leftist perfectionists think there will be only goodness flowing in our community provided we adopt their elitist system .. for them to run, because they are so brilliant … to that extent, I think we are saying the same thing.

Whereas a conservative thinks evil lurks and we need cops and law enforcement to keep the crime economy down to an acceptable level. I will always remember the utopians in the New York Times vilifying Ronald Reagan for calling the USSR the evil empire. The secular extremists at the NYT accused Reagan of being some kind of religious zealot for even thinking “evil” could exist. Déjà vu Bush and the Axis of Evil. Watch Obama .. he'll just ban nukes.

Can we ban stupidity? There seems to be a lot of it in Canada these days.

ET, you mean people are idiots and must be controlled. Miller's gun ban is right down that alley. Normal people will kill if they have a gun, that's the thinking. We are all just a bad hair day away from shooting up the McDonalds.

In truth though, its actually worse than that. He's using this issue as a reason to harass Harper and Co.and oppress his political opposition at home. Namely Conservative voters. No doubt hoping that if he makes life sufficiently unpleasant all the intelligent people will leave, and the morons left behind will keep voting for him.

Worked on me, I left in 1993 and don't miss it. I was over there yesterday for a visit, spent a very pleasant afternoon skipping stones at Kew Beach and watching the chicks roller skate.

You can't really do that up in the Jane/Finch 'hood, and twenty years of Leftist policy is the reason why. Twenty more years and you won't be doing it in the Beaches either. Its happened already in the USA, we're no different here.

We could ban wars, too. That'll fix everything!!

miller, mental midget.

People who voted for Miller, mental midgets

in the USA right-to-carry legislation has significantly reduced crime and saved lives

the mayor of toronto is an anarchist and his agenda is to further erode the quality of life by instituting policies which will increase crime and poverty - there can be no other explanation for his lunacy

mayor miller's wife is a lawyer and sits on the criminal injuries compensation board and her job would be to reduce or deny claims to those who have been victimized by crime which is increasing in toronto at a rate which is now almost double that of comparable cities in the USA

if miller was interested in reducing crime and violence in toronto he would address the issue of the 150 known criminal organizations who operate out of toronto or the 25,000 grow-ops whereby the illicit substances are smuggled into the USA and traded for handguns which are smuggled back into canada across indian reservations which straddle the border

miller's handgun ban is a progressive initiative designed to reduce personal freedom while disrupting society

toronto is a city in rapid decline socially, culturally and economically thanks exclusively to the progressive policies and mcguinty and miller

ET, the same mentality is in play about the disgraceful graffiti that covers just about everything in Toronto. Lovely marble walls, storefronts, transit stations, mailboxes are covered in this crap as you know living in the city. Of course the city demands the victim, the business owner, clean up the graffiti or be penalized and doesn't even bother with the POS that vandalized their business!

Check the murders from cities in the Toronto area, Hamilton, Niagara Falls, and you find the same people involved, blacks, whether its guns, knives or whatever this is the criminal group that perpetrates it. Thanks goodness Toronto has its afro-centric school now and we are saved just in time. (sarc off)

Some relief though can be taken since it is your legal right to smoke dope in a business's doorway on Main Street.

'When can we get alcohol banned'? - that is next on the 'agenda' and it will bankrupt some more people that earn a living in the hospitality industry. First 'they' banned smoking, then they banned hat-less bike riders, then they banned guns...in the minds of these 'rocket scientists' when 'their Preciousness' say NO they mean NO. They are so lost in their own egos that they BELIEVE that the peons ( we, their patrons), will look up in awe at their 'elevated' (like Aristophanes's floating 'bureaucratic gods' in The Clouds!!) persons and 'hear' the golden stream of bile that flows from their plump(ed up) lips; we will 'behold' and crash to our knees in organismic surrender!!

Some people really yearn to be submissive and martyred on the spikes of Bolshevism...others, not so much....the Bolshevik crowd take glee in PUNISHING certain 'special interest groups'; I wonder what 'group' this ban is made for - certainly not criminals - the smoking ban was to bankrupt private businesses, the gun ban was for independant (bothersome for Bolsheviks) people who don't trust the gument to defend themselves and their families from criminals and wanna be tyrants...there IS a hidden agenda here and it will float to the top, like all scum, in due time.

'Nomdeblog' pointed out; "The man is a graduate of Harvard Law school, he’s had a privileged education ; how did he end up with such a warped view of reality?"

Aside from the obvious issues that we've all commented on here, how did this 'Lawyer' come to the conclusion that his city's Charter allows him to make Criminal Code type law?
From this link:
http://www.toronto.ca/ourcity/newrelation.pdf

A City Charter for Toronto

* The Solicitor has advised the CAO that these powers can best be provided by the enactment of a City Charter for Toronto. Montreal, Winnipeg, Vancouver and Saint John are all Charter Cities.
* The Charter would be custom-built to meet Toronto's unique needs and responsibilities.
* It is achievable within the existing legal framework for municipal government in Canada.
* The existing City of Toronto Acts simply do not do the job. They do not provide Toronto with any additional powers that are not in the outdated and restrictive Municipal Act. In fact Toronto, with twice the population of Manitoba, has fewer powers than other smaller municipalities in Ontario since the province removed Toronto's authority to give community names to its electoral wards.

A strategy to achieve a new relationship with Ontario and Canada

* These proposals are a starting point. The report also recommends a five-pronged strategy to advance the City's case for new legal arrangements. The strategy includes:
* direct negotiations with the provincial government;
* direct negotiations with the federal government;
* collaboration with municipal associations like the AMO and the FCM;
* collaboration with other large cities in Ontario and across Canada; and
* activities to stimulate public interest and civic engagement.

I'm sure the Provincial Gov't would LOVE to offload the cost of ALL Criminal proceedings IN Toronto onto Toronto!

wow , what a step forward , I havent seen such progress since Cochrane Alberta declared itself a nuclear free zone. since then not a single missile has fallen or been launched from there, so good on them.

personally I have been wearing hyena repellant since yesterdays story.

I hope they go through with a total ban. That would mean confiscation and compensation, obviously. The cost of such a move, plus the inevitable increase in gun violence, should be enough to keep the entire country from falling into the same abyss. Those of us who have a clue know damn well this won't stop Jamaicans from shooting people.

Ban guns! The sellers of knives and explosives need a boost! /

When your executioner cocks the hammer back on his illegal weapon, (just before he blows your brains out through the back of your head) remember to tell him that what he is doing has been outlawed by David Miller....

Here is Joanne Miller's response to my letter complaining about the Mayor's unwillingness to face reality and take on the thugs, we all know who they are.

"Thank you for writing. I will share your perspective with the Mayor.

Mayor Miller believes the staff report released yesterday is the logical next step in making Toronto an even safer city. Handguns are unlike anything else as they are designed and intended for one purpose: to kill people. As you may be aware, the Mayor has already publicly called for a ban on the private ownership of handguns across Canada. That call has received the support of Mayors from all over the country as well as Premier Dalton McGuinty. The Atlantic Mayors' Congress and Montreal Mayor Gerald Tremblay are among the most recent to add their support.

With that already underway, it is incumbent on the city to take whatever steps and measures are within its power to show that we are serious about attacking gun violence on all fronts. That means that gun clubs will have to vacate city property and gun manufacturers and distributors will no longer be able to establish themselves in Toronto. We cannot talk about a national handgun ban or approach our neighbours in the United States and ask them to help eliminate gun violence without showing we are willing to take whatever actions we can locally.

The City of Toronto has the right to regulate the property and civil rights aspects of firearms as they relate to the health, safety and well being of its residents. Handguns pose an increasing threat in our community that we must not ignore. The Mayor wants to ensure that the City is taking all available actions to address gun violence.

Specific areas of recommended action to be considered next week by the Executive Committee include:
* Land use restrictions affecting manufacture, assembly, warehousing, distribution and discharge of guns.
* Eliminating recreational use of firearms on City property, specifically, shooting ranges at the Don Montgomery Community Recreation Centre (former Mid-Scarborough Community Centre) and Union Station.
* Comprehensive monitoring of incidents and impacts of firearm violence and injury in Toronto. Providing social supports to break the cycle of violence.
* Intergovernmental advocacy.

The report is posted on the City's website at: http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2008/ex/agendas/2008-06-03-ex21-ar.pdf

With respect to the ban, that would be up to the Federal Government to act but Mayor Miller believes the urgency of a handgun ban and the impact it could have in Toronto are simple. We know that about a third of the guns used to commit crimes in this city were at one point legally registered. Recently, a legally registered handgun was used to murder someone on a Toronto street. But this is not just a Toronto issue. Canadian police services reported 8,105 victims of violent gun crime, ranging from assault to robbery and homicide in 2006 - a rate of almost 1 person per hour victimized by violent gun crime.

While there are no simple answers to the scourge of gun violence in all Canadian cities, the banning of private ownership of handguns would cut off supply of at least some of the weapons that are used for criminal purposes.

The handgun ban is part of the Mayor's strategy to make our safe city safer. Among the other parts of the strategy:
* There are 450 more police officers on our streets and in our neighbourhoods.
* We are addressing the root causes of violence through our Community Safety Plan.

The strategy is working. Young people in priority communities are benefitting from the creation of thousands of jobs, training and recreational opportunities. For more information on our plan for Making Our Safe City Safer Community Safer, please visit our website: www.toronto.ca/community_safety .

In Toronto, crime is down in every major category, except gun murders. For this reason, the Mayor's gun violence strategy includes:
* A handgun ban
* Tougher crime legislation for illegal gun use
* Increased anti-gun smuggling security at the Canada-U.S. border
* Stronger U.S. gun controls
* Continuation of community based prevention and youth opportunity development
* Continuation of the Toronto Anti violence Interventions Strategy (TAVIS) initiative of the Toronto Police Service

It's true that the majority of handguns used are illegally imported into the country and the Mayor has called on the Federal government to increase efforts to stem the flow at the border. The Mayor is also working with Mayors across the United States to have the federal government in that country take action on the easy availability of handguns.

I think you will agree that you cannot put a price on human life. If a handgun ban and the other measures we are taking save even one life, it will be more than worth it.

Again, thank you for sharing your point of view.
Joanne Miller

Liberals think nothing about taking away our Freedoms.
This is another freedom issue we must fight.

I think making guns illegal in Toronto is a super idea. Criminals will know that committing their crimes while a ban is in place would in fact be against the law. They will have to either turn their guns in to ensure their criminal activities do not break the law or move outside the city so as to obey the law.

DaninVan, now that you mention it, Obama lead his class at Harvard Law School … hmmmm.

That is an interesting PDF. Because the GTA plus Hamilton is 6 million going to 9 million in 30 years , I would have no problem in the GTHA and a couple of other mega cities moving toward a city-state concept. That is happening all over the world anyway. Half the world’s population lives in cities and the trend is escalating. Match the governance.

But first we must “democratize” the Caesar-like Miller who is corrupted by unions and developers and warped on issues like law enforcement as discussed on this thread

Toronto needs to do 2 things pronto:

Have election laws that ban unions and developers from contributing to Miller and council . We have a bought Mayor.
Force all city union activity to subject itself to entrepreneurial tender.

If we had a real leader in Queens Park who could sit down with Harper and the Mayor of Toronto, new governance solutions would be created. That will not happen. McGuinty has his eye on the Liberal leadership in Ottawa and Miller has his eye on McGuinty's job. These guys are only in it for themselves.

It has been said that we get the government we deserve and those that voted for Miller and company are getting exactly that...ciao

The real problem is when the Ontario Provincial government got on the anti-gun kick and passed a law that any store that sold ammo had to keep record of the purchaser's licence number, name, and address. Then these records (which are kept in the store) can be easily copied and sold to criminals. They are basically buying a shopping list of who has a legal firearm to steal. I will never buy ammo in Ontario because of this. I read an interview where a cop stated he was clearly amazed how most houses broken into had legal firearms stored in them.

Talk to anyone in Toronto and most anyone in Ontario and they totally agree with these two idiots (Miller and McGuinty). As long as Ontario keeps putting the Liberals (Provincially and Federally) into power they deserve what they get. So progressive! I love it!! Good on them! Keep voting Liberal - yeah!

Once mayor Miller bans weigh gain, and I am sure that will be soon, I am movin' to the Big Smoke. Then I am lobbying for guilt free extramarital affairs. "It's ths law, Honey"

Rick..yes, shorter Joanne Miller....

Thank you for your concern, now let me take this opportunity to drown you in rhetoric, obsfucation, questionable statistics and left wing ideaology.All on your tax payers dime.Thanks for playing!..

A few points.
"Canadian police services reported 8,105 victims of violent gun crime, ranging from assault to robbery and homicide in 2006 - a rate of almost 1 person per hour victimized by violent gun crime."

How many of these people were victimized by the same people? People who are serial offenders, recidivists etc?

"Recently, a legally registered handgun was used to murder someone on a Toronto street. But this is not just a Toronto issue."

Registered, in New York state, re-registered in Ontario ( wrongly) to a person who should not have passed the criteria test for handgun ownership in Canada.
Ms. Miller is right.It is not just a Toronto problem. It is a Montreal and Vancouver problem too, where left wing local govts. have let the situation get out of control through lax enforcement of law and an unhealthy reliance on socialist dogma to 'protect' them.

"In Toronto, crime is down in every major category, except gun murders. For this reason, the Mayor's gun violence strategy includes:

* A handgun ban
(un-enforceable, out of Millers Jurisdiction)

* Tougher crime legislation for illegal gun use
(hogwash..sounds good, but rejected at every level of govt. by leftists)

* Increased anti-gun smuggling security at the Canada-U.S. border
(again, almost un-enforceable, out of Millers jurisdiction..)

* Stronger U.S. gun controls
(ad nauseum, COMPLETELY out of Millers jurisdiction and ability to influence..)

* Continuation of community based prevention and youth opportunity development
(more basketball courts..)

* Continuation of the Toronto Anti violence Interventions Strategy (TAVIS) initiative of the Toronto Police Service
(Basketball courts with a lecture..)

All this is a joke my friends..Miller would rather go after the law abiding gun owners than the thugs who use them to commit murder.
If he is going to stick his nose into Federal jurisdiction to influence policy, how about lobbying the federal immigration minister to ban immigration from Jamaica, where the vast majority of these thugs and murderers come from..

rick - what Mr. Miller's assistant, Ms Miller, left out of her bureaucratic stupor, were some relevant facts.

The Feb 20, 2008 Statistics Canada report on gun violence in Canada in 2006, from which she took her data base of '8,100 victims of violent crime using firearms' also reported that these crimes were 2.4% of the ratio of violent crimes.

Furthermore, the report said: "Violent crimes were more often committed with other types of weapons than guns. Knives accounted for 6.2% of violent victimizations and clubs or other blunt instruments were used against 3.0% of victims."

And the report also states: "The 2006 rate of violent crime involving the use of firearms in Canada remained stable for the fourth consecutive year, according to a new study examining trends in gun violence."

Toronto was the third highest in gun violence, with Vancouver and Winnipeg as 1st and 2nd.

Also, "the use of handguns surpassed rifles or shotguns for the first time in 1991. By 2006, three times as many victims were killed with a handgun than with a rifle or shotgun."

And yet the Liberals put in that longgun registration - which did absolutely nothing for crime but did a great deal in getting more bureaucratic government jobs for Maritimers. Oh, and votes for the Liberals because of those jobs.

Now, why doesn't Miller ban knives? After all, statistics show that most of the violent crimes are committed, more and more, with knives. I wonder if the knives are all imported from the USA. Hmmm. Or from China?

John Lewis: "Have *any* gun homicides in TO over, say, the last 10 years been committed with a *legal* handgun?"

Well, as Bill Clinton might say, it depends on what your definition of "legal" is. Miller cited the case of one legally owned handgun that had been stolen from the owner's home, and was subsequently used in five murders, IIRC. So was that a "legal" gun or not? In my view, it's no more "legal" than a gun smuggled in from the US, but apparently in Miller's mind, it is a "legal" gun.

The police, jumping on board, noted that there have been many thefts of handgun collections from registered owners. The police also noted that many gun owners fail to secure their weapons properly.

Unfortunately, I know this is true from personal experience. My father was an excellent shot - he had a bunch of cups he'd won while in the Navy - and he was very proud of his shotguns (which he used to shoot skeet in the back 40 at our cottage.) He often left the shotguns in the trunk of his car; locked and out of sight, to be sure, but not exactly secure. He also had struggles with alcohol, and while in his cups, would often brag about his guns, often in bars of, shall we say, lower quality. Sure enough, he went out to his car one night to find the trunk open and the guns missing.

I think Miller's ban is stupid and pointless; if people are going to steal guns, are they going to be stopped by some magical barrier at Steeles Ave. and not steal guns from Thornhill, Markham, or Vaughan? If he had agitated for more secure storage, I might have some sympathy for him, but what he's proposing just criminalizes honest citizens without doing a thing about the underlying problem.

Miller is part of a disturbing trend in politics to criminalize things that liberal elistists don't like, such as guns and pesticides. Miller is a dink but such a good fit for Toronto.

Kevin- I had a handgun stolen once for basically the same reason. I was young and thought the neighbours would be impressed. One of them was. He was eventually caught with it, and I got it back. That sort of thing has no business happening any more. My guns are under lock and key at all times. That's the law, isn't it?

Can anyone here quote statistics on accidental gun deaths in Canada last year? If I'm not mistaken they're 0. I may not agree with some of the restrictions, the mandatory education has worked. So I really don't believe that legal guns are to blame for all this violence in TO. Guns don't kill people, Jamaicans kill people.

Hey guys don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Joanne Millers response. I'm posting the rationalization of the left. My letter to Miller was blistering and against any more assualts on our freedoms.
Here is what I sent to the Mayor:

"Mr. Miller you and your ilk the Provincial Liberals can go to hell when it
comes to the banning of handguns in Canada or Toronto. First let me tell
you I am not a gun owner nor am I a hunter however if I ever decided that I
wanted to take up the sport of shooting in this alleged free country you
will not stop me.
You are misguided and spineless like your Liberal pal McGuinty.
If you had any courage you would go after the source of illegal handguns in
Toronto by first stopping the illegal importation of handguns by the thugs
who cross the borders every day with them.
Secondly if you were really concerned about handgun violence you would crack
down on the illegal immigrants and Jamaican population that inhabits the low
life ends of your city. No I am not a racist so don't even try that.
You are afraid to take these thugs on because you are afraid to lose your
job because of the "multicultural" ethnicities of your city who vote for
you. You are like most Socialists, a coward afraid to crack down on the
ethnic criminals and take heat from the black community and lose votes. In
not taking action against them is your action not criminal???
That's my perception of what is going on in Toronto.
As far as handguns go there are millions of honest citizens who enjoy the
sport of handgun shooting in Canada and you may think that Toronto is the
center of the universe it is not. So if you want to be Wyatt Earp and have
everyone check their guns at the Toronto City limits go ahead but leave the
rest of Canada alone."

Rick I agree that multi-culti with its politically correct weapon to shut us down is a part of the problem. However for dp to say “Guns don't kill people, Jamaicans kill people” and thus narrowing it down to Jamaicans is like narrowing it down to guns.

Banning Jamaicans is not going to help. Torontonians need to tell our politicians that we have crime levels that are unacceptable; they are unacceptable to Jamaicans too. We need more Cop gang squads, that will cost money , money Miller would prefer to spend on his unions that he won’t outsource.

I heard John Tory calling for cop gang squads in the Mayor race that he lost to Miller 2 terms ago. Miller literally laughed in Tory’s face for thinking more cops were needed. The audience believed Miller and voted for him

As many have posted here the problem is with us …Torontonians .. we got Miller partly because only the left unions are organized enough to vote. Voter turnout is disgracefully about 30 odd percent.

"This is as much about intellectually stunted, half-wit soccer moms as it is about the scumbag, leftard politicians who pander to their hysterical, irrational fear."

NAILED IT. QUIT DECIDING WHAT SHOES TO WEAR AND GET INFORMED.

My guns are under lock and key at all times. That's the law, isn't it?

Criminals might take your life but they won't take your guns. We have a regular Einstein here.

"This man is surely ahead of his time."
Posted by: Sounder

Uh huh...that's what they said about Lenin and Hitler.

Why didn't he just ban crime?

"My guns are under lock and key at all times. That's the law, isn't it?"
Yes it's the law. But Locks and Keys are only an interesting challenge for criminals.
My advice: store ALL your firearms partially disassembled with that critical part, you know the one, removed from the area, possibly the premises.
There was a break-in where the guns were stored this way. Result: no guns stolen.

"The police, jumping on board, noted that there have been many thefts of handgun collections from registered owners. The police also noted that many gun owners fail to secure their weapons properly."
I'm suspicious of this. How many people here can recall a single instance in their locality, where there has been media mention of the theft of a gun collection? The local newstards would be frothing at the mouth! I think this type of statement from the cops, anywhere, is battleground preparation, and propaganda repetition. People who legally own guns in this country, by and large, are not failing to secure their firearms properly, any more. But to hear that, from "the police", makes the non gun owners even more frightened than they are already, and less likely to object to another round of Canadian "pin the blame wherever we can".

When I read that article it reminded me of an article I read on the Horn of Africa, many moons ago the Tribal Leaders in Africa agreed to have their tribes lay down their weapons and surrender to Arab demands from the Sudan to embrace Wahhabi Islam and the raids and killing would cease. Well the Tribal Leaders did disarm their tribes and the Arab blood money (China and Russia also) flowed into these corrupt Tribal Leaders' hands and the result it's now known as the Darfur Genocide. You see people the corrupt leaders allowed their people to be slaughtered for money and power. One of the things I admire about the US is it's people can over throw their government because they are allowed to be armed.

In Canada we are losing our liberties at an alarming rate, the only people who benifit by disarming legal gun owners are the Jamacian Gangs. Lest chance of them getting shot whilst committing a crime. Making guns illegal won't solve the booming gang crime industry but it will prevent a homeowner or citizen from legally protecting themselves. Not exactly Darfur but close enough.

So I really don't believe that legal guns are to blame for all this violence in TO. Guns don't kill people, Jamaicans kill people.

Posted by: dp at May 27, 2008 5:52 PM

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Well dp thats not entirely true.

The problem is that for 35 years in a row in Toronto,over 80 percent of all murders have been committed by NON-WHITES.

NON-WHITES include all types of Visible-Minorities,not just Jamaicans.

the leftard manifesto

first they come for your guns

then they come for you

I would venture a guess that even Miller doesn't believe this tripe. He surely does, however, understand the value of applying cosmetic legislation to an issue that would be a political landmine to genuinely address in a way that might make a difference. I doubt that Miller is stupid or even idealistic. The greater likelihood lies along the lines of cynical, jaded and calculating. He knows how the media (who generally are stupid and idealistic) report things, and isn't afraid for whatever reason of the blood that he'll have on his hands in choosing to deflect the issue away from real solutions.

Miller has zero credibility and he's being total insincere. In the last election, a few months after Toronto's so-called "Summer of the Gun", Miller chose to stand side-by-side with the Martin Liberals and Irwin Cotler—one Canada's most left-wing, soft-on-crime justice ministers ever who, in September of that year, laughed off suggestions that there was any serious problem and argued against manditory minumums for crimes committed with a gun. Miller chose the Liberals over the Conservatives' more robust approach to gun crime. Miller won't get re-elected. Moreover, he won't be around to because he will either run as a Liberal for Rae or Ignatieff or might even run for the leadership himself. He's got a massive ego and is a legend in his own mind.

that would cause too much unemployment for lawyers!!

If we had an honest and non-partisan press corps in this country Miller wouldn't have dared utter something so f*cking stupid.
I mean really, why not take the opportunity to ban ALL illegal behavior and eradicate crime completely?

On a similar note, I just heard on the way home that a BC judge has 'forbidden' the Harper government to enforce our national drug laws and close down the free injection site in Vancouver's downtown eastside.
Once again, a bleeding heart press corps have enabled this sham in avoiding real accountability.

But then we see time and time again that our left-leaning neighbors are not about accountability but about feel-good, pie-in-the-sky proclamations.

I just know that no one knew I had the long guns before the liberals decided I was a criminal unless I registered them.

The guys at the photo shop now know I have guns. Three postal workers now know I have guns. Untold number of government employees now know I have guns. Before, when I was a free citizen, only my buds knew I had guns. Funny ... never worried about my buds.

"I'm suspicious of this. How many people here can recall a single instance in their locality, where there has been media mention of the theft of a gun collection?"

In Oshawa, there was an older collector of handguns that had his entire collection stolen because someone found out his address from an ammunition purchase registar in Canadian Tire..it was in the news for a while..there was also the case of a man who had his entire collection stolen when thieves took 3 days and drilled through his safe to get at them..in both cases, the victims were made to feel like criminals.

In the first instance, most of the pistols have been found, but not returned to their rightful owner..

I just have to add that the pistols found were Luger P-08 semi automatic pistols.Evidently from the tips received, they were dumped because the thieves couldn't figure out how to work the toggle action, nor load the magazines without the special tool necessary for that job!..

No one ever said these boys were swift..

Canadian Observer,

BC judges ... leading the charge for the the reason to have elected judges. Go ... BC judges ... Go!!!!

Yeah great. But think. How is this going to affect the leftards voting platform? Remember,it was the leftards who made it legal for cons to vote,so now,if it is illegal to be a murderer,haven't they lost a huge voting block?

Justthinkin,

Huh? The murderer is the victim!!!! Get with the program.

Peaceful citizens should have the ability (and, no matter what the law says, they have the right) to return absolutely overwhelming firepower when attacked.

That is all.

I supose this mean's a conceal and carry law is out of the question?

To be consistent with leftist thinking on Afghanistan, we have to conclude that the level of violence in Toronto means that Toronto is a failed city. Obviously there is only one way to end the bloodshed: we must direct the police and the Armed Forces to pull out of Toronto.

Alternatively, maybe we should get Jack Layton and the NDP to negotiate with the drug gangs.

If it were a bunch of fat bearded white guys cruising Harleys around causing a majority of the gun violence in TO Miller would waste no time calling in daisycutter air strikes in every clubhouse in the city. The cops would mop up what was left in front of the cameras to show he is tough on crime. But because he's afraid to offend the ethnic base,he has to somehow blame it on whitey through back door bullshit. Remember when smug Canadians used to critisize cities in the states for thier crime? We are progressing all right.

The Phantom :

Miller KNOWS this. He knows. He's not a fool. Therefore I can only conclude he has some kind of vested interest in the increasing decay of law and order in Toronto, or is the lackey of somebody who does.

You get the golden cigar for that bit of insight. Of course he knows & your right to about the latter statement you made. Well said. As I said before I do belive where under attack at once with all these restrictive laws every government is bringing in no matter what stripe. The left is making its move before Conservativesd are entrenched to much to ruin there plans for Utopia.

It's pretty obvious that Miller is not qualified to run the largest city in Canada. These people should be fired - but then again this is Toronto and might be "normal" behavior.

And people wonder Delisle Sask has become the new intellectual capital of Canada.

Thank you David Miller! Heh

first the guns

then the beer

and then the trucks'

they're com'n

Well now that he has banned ALL handguns, incuding preasumably the police, that leaves the cops with only tasers to use and we know what kind of trouble they can get into with tasers.

Horny Toad

This is one of the most assinine and totalitarian plans that I've ever hear. The almost total lack of any outcry over this idiocy in Toronto is disturbing. As soon as I've settled down a bit I'll write moron Miller a letter letting him know what I think of his delusional thinking.

In the meantime, I think that it would be appropriate for gun owners to totally boycott Toronto and refuse to buy any goods that are manufactured there. It would be worthwhile to send a letter to the Toronto chamber of commerce letting them know about this as this would likely be far more effective than sending a letter to Miller.

Also, I'll ensure that any vehicle I buy is not made in Ontario. It's probably time to renew my membership in the Western Canada Concept party as the Conservative party has been strangely silent on this issue.

Incredible mental disorder. First he calls for a ban on handguns, which are already banned. When he doesn't get that which is already a reality, he demands another ban that's already in place. Like, WTF?

David Miller is indubitably a supermodel of contemporary moonbattery.

His stupidity and appalling cluelessness is infinite, a bottomless pit of left-wing scariness into which he's constantly pitching the people of Toronto...

And what of Torontonians, who keep returning him to the Mayor's Office? Are they stupid, too?

DON"T LAUGH PEOPLE!! When John F. Kennedy was assassinated on Nov. 22-1963 in Dallas, Texas, lengthy discussions and legal battles ensued questioning the legality of who should have investigated the crime, that was ultimately a murder. The FBI, the CIA and the US Secret Service all joined in to solve what is still to this day (theoretically) an unsoved murder.
One slight problem. In 1963, murder was not listed as federal offence. Thus the Dallas Sheriff's department and or the Dallas police should have investigated the death of JFK, and the CIA, FBI and US Secret Service were most likely out of their jusrisdictions. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Yet another shooting in Toronto. In an effort to advance their cause, Miller and his cohorts in the MSM will most certainly attempt to take advantage of the situation by making the point that if a gun ban had been instituted that this latest shooting could have been prevented because apparently the suspect in question would know that to commit cold-blooded murder with his illegally-imported gun—which it most likely was—on Toronto streets would not merely be a violation of the Criminal Code, punishable by life imprisonment with no chance of parole for 25 years, but would violate Toronto's ban. The latter, Miller and friends feel, being a risk no murdering thug would ever think of taking.

In the sarcastic-laden words of Jerry Seinfeld: "Things make perfect sense to me now."

I received the same form response from the office of the Mayor...so....I had to respond again:

Karen Duffy -

Thank you for the general response the Mayor's office is sending out. Please allow me to rebute the majority of your response.

What the Mayor is doing by calling for a ban for private ownership ( as well as his sweeping call for a handgun ban ), is punishing law abiding citizens for the actions of others. As well, there are numerous statistics available that clearly show a ban has no effect on decreasing gun crime. One only has to look at Great Britain to see that handgun bans are ineffective. The CCOC already effectively "bans" handguns by making their usage for unlawful purposes illegal. Stating the Mayor has the support of the likes of the Premier adds zero credibility to his call given the record of this Premier.

I agree that the city must take steps to show they are serious about any agenda it may set, however the caveat is that the agenda makes sense. This one does not. Not only does data show that handgun bans are ineffective, they also show that knives are more of a threat than handguns...especially legally owned registered firearms. Data taken from various police agencies in Canada show that over 95% of all firearms recovered, have never been registered.

The Mayor may want to ensure the City is taking all available actions however he has cherry picked the easy ones. Fighting as hard as he has for this ban may impress the uneducated voters however there are many that see it for what it is. The Mayor may be able to say he has fought the good fight against gun violence but the truth is, he is going down a road that is ineffective.

While 8,105 victims of violent gun crime is tossed around, that number is about 1% of the number of people affected by violent crime overall. That would leave over 95% of victims being assaulted by other means. As for your statement that 1/3 of all guns were once registered, I would gladly entertain the official stats. In 2006, ALL guns collected by Toronto Police showed that less than 5% were registered. That is an official number.

The banning of private handguns will have no measurable effect in cutting off the supply of guns. Stats have shown that and to believe otherwise, is being naive.

If the addition of 450 police officers is part of the Mayor's strategy, that does not go far enough. The office of the Mayor is well aware that the attrition rate of the Toronto Police is well beyond that and those 450 will just fill in what is already missing. Using the addition of officers as a selling point for the Mayor's strategy is offensive when the truth is that is lacks substance. As for the other aspects of the Mayor's strategy, they are not in his domain and quite frankly, will have absolutely no influence on those aspects.

Your closing is a typical argument. The flipside is if life sentences for possession of a firearm would save one life is it worth it? If evicting those found with firearms in social housing would save one life, is it worth it? If implementing the tough and successful approach Mayor Giuliani did would save one life, is it worth it? If banning panhandlers would save one life ( too late for Ross Hammond ) is it worth it?

The bottom line is the Mayor is taking the easy road that is politically expedient but useless. Taking the tough approach is not in the Mayor's arsenal. It is pathetically symbolic.

Miller: Moron Moonbat Mayor.