Facebook group: I don't like Pierre Trudeau.

Just thought I'd plug that. Join and invite all your friends.

no more twigs, light sabres please

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1589133.stm

More UK beyond parody, or even behind hope.

3w.glen-jenvey.com/

For those who don't think that government sponsored economic statistics would be most useful spread on farmers' fields:

In the latest US CPI statistics for April, they state that gasoline prices FELL BY 0.2%. That is not a mis-print; they say gas prices fell on a "seasonally adjusted" basis because the pointy headed economists expected an even larger rise in the price of gas. So, despite the fact that gas is over $4/gallon in some spots, the government expects you to believe the price has gone down.

Cue the sheep: ba-aa-aa-ah, ba-aa-aa-ah.

"Less than a year after leaving the CBC, former editor in chief Tony Burman is taking on a top post at news network Al-Jazeera English."

(via CBC News)

Quelle surprise, eh?

Barbara Hall: Keeping The Business Booming
Hey, hey, three cheers for Babs. Out of a few allegedly racist incidents involving fishermen, her Ontario Human Rights Commission guaranteed themselves years of work and a bigger bureaucracy. In a superb move, she even got the Ministry of Education on board, so now all of Ontario’s children can learn how much bigotry takes place on the high seas…er, lakes.

http://downwitheverybody.wordpress.com/2008/05/13/barbara-hall-keeping-the-business-booming/

Polar bears declared endangered: Streaming live on cnn.com now

Hugo Chavez breaks Godwin's law.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3920575.ece

http://www.planetfeedback.com/index.php?level2=blog_viewpost&topic_id=303884&reply_id=157366

This is Wal-Marts Prescription Drug Plan. The $4.00 per generic has become a preferred source over private plans. What are the Administrative Costs in Saskatchewan or CANADA.

No wonder the Unions hate WAl-Mart

Did Henry Morgentaler use blackmail against then Prime Minister Pierre Elliott Trudeau? See all the interesting details at www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/may/08050801.html. As I am not overtly technologically adept and my teenage daughter is still at school I hope the link works.

"Mr. Babcock’s letter to the Prime Minister"
http://www.pm.gc.ca/eng/feature.asp?pageId=105

MSM/Harris do not mention the above letter.
...-

"Last WWI vet a Canuck again
By KATHLEEN HARRIS
The Toronto Sun

OTTAWA -- Just months before his 108th birthday, John Babcock has reclaimed his Canadian citizenship.

In a small ceremony at his home in Spokane, Wash., yesterday, Canada's only surviving veteran of World War I took an oath of citizenship. Babcock was required to give up his citizenship to become an American at age 46 when he served in the U.S. military during World War II.

"I feel very honoured," Babcock said by telephone. "It was quite a day.""
http://tinyurl.com/6eb4t8

"beyond parody"....I think not.

"According to an internal Correctional Service of Canada manual on religious practices, inmate witches are required to have an altar with candles and incense for worship."

Read the rest here,
http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/2008/04/28/5413011.html

Goreacle/Suzuki, et al, are bloviating-jubilating. The Warmites have scored.
The computer modellers have hoaxed the politicians, again.
...-

"U.S. lists polar bears as 'threatened' species

The U.S. government has decided to list polar bears as a threatened species under its Endangered Species Act — a decision that could deal a severe blow to the lucrative sport hunt in Canada's North."
"He said that computer models projected declines in sea ice averaging 30 per cent by the middle of the century. Scientists predict that as a result, two-thirds of polar bears could disappear by then."
http://tinyurl.com/6xmne7 (cbc)

"Less than a year after leaving the CBC, former editor in chief Tony Burman is taking on a top post at news network Al-Jazeera English."

(via CBC News)

Quelle surprise, eh?
Posted by: Eeyore at May 14, 2008 2:17 PM

- joining Avi Lewis, I see. Birds of a feather...

"Suicide bomber kills 22 in attack at Iraq funeral

BAGHDAD - Iraqi police say a suicide bomber has killed 22 people and wounded at least 35 at the funeral of a Sunni school principal west of Baghdad."
...-

"a pagan people, ever sentient of the fragility of their existence, are always prepared to fight to the death."

"For Rosenzweig, holy war is the sine qua non of Islam, precisely because war is the most sacred act of pagan society in general. As he writes:"

"it is book three, his portrayal of the encounter of the peoples with mortality, that establishes the context—for it is there that he explains the “pagan world of fate and chance,” which applies to paganism’s manifestation in Islam."

"Rosenzweig’s analysis of foundational differences between Judeo-Christian religion and Islam holds more than historical interest for us today. The challenges of theological dialogue with Islam noted by Benedict XVI among others should alert us that an existential divide separates the Judeo-Christian West and Islam."

"Christian, Muslim, Jew
Franz Rosenzweig and the Abrahamic Religions
by Spengler

Franz Rosenzweig is widely regarded as one of the greatest Jewish theologians of the past century. Best known for The Star of Redemption, published eight years before his death in 1929 at the age of forty-three, he began a new kind of dialogue between Judaism and Christianity when he argued that the two faiths complement each other: Christianity to propagate revelation to the world, and Judaism to “convert the inner pagan” inside each Christian.

Less often mentioned, however, is Rosenzweig’s analysis of Islam, a religion he regarded as a throwback to paganism. Indeed, Rosenzweig predicted a prolonged conflict of civilizations between Islam and the West. “The coming millennium will go down in world history as a struggle between Orient and Occident, between the church and Islam, between the Germanic peoples and the Arabs,” he forecast in 1920—in part because Islam is “a parody of revealed religion,” while Allah is an apotheosized despot, “the colorfully contending gods of the pagan pantheon rolled up into one.”"
http://tinyurl.com/39wrwn (firstthings)

"The number of Americans being secretly wiretapped or having their financial and other records reviewed by the government has continued to increase as officials aggressively use powers approved after the Sept. 11 attacks. But the number of terrorism prosecutions ending up in court -- one measure of the effectiveness of such sleuthing -- has continued to decline, in some cases precipitously."

Our southern neighbours benefit from a far broader discussion on the nature of freedom and liberty than our (largely) statist population. And this article is just another example of bureaucrats and paper pushers making work - and dough - under a pretense of fear.

Not that politicians would peddle fear to gain a vote :-)

http://fairuse.100webcustomers.com/itsonlyfair/latimes0285.html

mmmmmmmm tastes like tofu......

http://www.trendhunter.com/photos/waterproof-food-packaging-that-doesnt-dissolve

*
"eeyore says... "Less than a year after leaving
the CBC, former editor in chief Tony Burman..."

I guess our loss is Al-Qaeda's gain.

*

Conservative MP Andrew Turner, who uncovered the new ruling, added: "This strikes me as bizarre. A lot of people would be worried about equating paganism with Christianity."

Unlike giving a con a twig, that statement from the politiican above is far more frightening - given fundamentalist Christian whackjobs imposing their belief structures through law.

Polar bears declared endangered. This is insane.

Long weekends down by the river , in multicultural-ville.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IqGHY7dnrY&feature=related

The UK ... beyond parody.

The 2001 census reveals that 390,000 people across England and Wales are devoted followers of the Jedi "faith"...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2757067.stm

Heh.

Kate! We miss you. Booooooohoooooo!! Tears tears, sniff sniff. love, Canada.

Re: pagans in prison!! Wannna suggestion as to what they could do with that wand?? Hint: It sets prisoners in the right "de-erection."

Has anyone notice that the house of commons question period which normally starts around 2:15 PM (Except Friday which is 11AM) and is shown live on CPAC has been also broadcasted by CTV Newsnet AND CBC Newsworld (Liberalmedias) with both showing about the first 15 min. This started yesterday and happened again today.
It seems they want to continue pushing the Maxime Bernier non issue to the max...(?)

Also on Duffy yesterday, Graham Richarson (Replacing the Duff) had journalists Tondra McCharles (TO Star) and Greg Weston (SUN) commenting on Bernier...McCharles first started and of course she said it was serious and the PM was making fun of Dion over it which is irresponsable etc...When Richardson asked Weston, he said it was a non issue because there's been exhaustive research on the girlfriend which was cleared by the cops, no charges, criminal files etc...WELL RICHARDSON WAS MIGHTY DISSAPOINTED AT WESTON...IF SOMEONE HAS A VIDEO LINK IT'S WELL WORTH SEEING...BIASED MSM? YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT!!!

hardboiled:

Modern Western society is based on Judeo/Christian values.

Fundamentalists are one Christian sect.

Among the accomplishments for the good of humanity of Western societies are the concepts of free speech, freedom of religion, the Geneva Convention.

All are based upon those aformentioned values.

What value system would you suggest would improve upon the framework which respects individual rights and recognizes individuals inherent free will and ability to make their own creative choices?

Ignorance of those values upon which the greatest societies in the earth's history were built upon does not make you wiser, it just confirms your ignorance of those values.

So, could you let us know which particular historical example has demonstrated respect for individuals based upon their inherent ability for self-control?

1. Gates of Vienna has been kicked out of Pajamas Media for some reason. They want help pressuring Pajamas to let them back in.

2. Here's why former CBC news director will fit in just fine at Al Jazeera

3. Garth Turner is an ass. Not really a tip, just fact, that.

earth, a cold dead dry rock. when? who the hell knows. but it will be like mars when the sun cools, as it will. no such thing as a perpetual motion machine or planet. planets might be here forever or maybe not.

Just remember, Hussain, not to bellow "Allahu akbar!" whenever you pick up another party hack superdelegate.

Jennifer Rubin, First Pins, Now Crosses

Remember all the fuss when Mike Huckabee put out a Christmas ad with a bookshelf in the background that media pundits were sure was a “cross”? There were plenty of howls. Well, Barack Obama’s latest ad, in the the form of direct mail, doesn’t leave anything to the imagination. The cross stares you right in the face. And there is plenty about his religious faith in the ad copy.

Surely People for the American Way, the ACLU, and other outspoken critics of mixing religion and politics must be on the case, right?

"Has anyone notice that the house of commons question period which normally starts around 2:15 PM"

Grind, they often do this when there's some particularly sensationalist topic. I actually like it a great deal, seeing our politicians in the mainstream media, actually getting to hear something from the commons etc. is something few people would ever see, since CPAC is usually not the most popular of channels.

I agree the Bernier jazz is ridiculous, but the news showing this stuff just furthers our convictions regarding how silly our politicians are.

Also, has anyone seen that conservative chick with the sunglasses on all the time behind minister of finance in the House? She been watching the Matrix too much lately?

As to Al-Jeezera, I like reading their stuff, gives an interesting perspective from the other side of the world.

Ah, turns out I'm an insensitive ass. She's got graves disease, which apparently results in various symptoms of the eye.

Posted by: set you free at May 14, 2008 5:07 PM
What value system would you suggest would improve upon the framework which respects individual rights and recognizes individuals inherent free will and ability to make their own creative choices?

SYF - I think you are conflating Judeo/Christian tenets with the founding fathers of the US Constitution, and the benefits conferred upon property holders vis a vis the Magna Carta.

While Christian and Judaism's values (I am far more ignorant of the latter) are a component of the values 'western' civilization has adopted legally and normatively, one cannot draw a straight line between the notion of personal freedom, liberty, and equality of individuals - and the Christian church, nor of the synagogue.

Fanaticism and intolerance are a large part of human nature, not neccesarily of a belief structure. One can see this intolerance reflected from the mundane (ability to go shopping on a Sunday), to the symbolic (10 commandments in public buildings), to the intrusive (temperance movements, marijuana prohibition).

My concern with the MP's comments is pandering to a group (presumably) fearful of different beliefs. Do I 'get' wands? Not a chance. Do I care if someone finds divinity or god, that causes no harm nor impact to others?

Not at all.

I do care about religious people imposing their value structures on me or others in our society - whether condoning sharia honor killings in this nation, or some Christian fundies stopping Sunday shopping.

Overall, I just don't believe that anyone should tell anyone else what to do, based upon theology (and naturally, in line with criminal law et al).

Besides, wasn't it our American friends who cam up with the whole seperation of church and state thing? Do you have an issue with secularism?

Above all, I didn't think the Christian church introduced the notion of freedom of religion. I must have missed that papal bull.

Message from Leeds-Grenville, Ontario Conservative MPP:
"Runciman said there is a growing body of complaints against the commission and its method of operations."
...-

Westport [Ontario] mayor rejects findings of commission; Racial profiling behind attacks on fishermen, report concludes

A report citing racial profiling as the cause of two attacks on Asian-Canadian fishermen here last year is being disputed by the village mayor.

Bill Thake says the findings of a Human Rights Commission report released Tuesday afternoon shouldn't prejudge the village based on two OPP investigations that haven't even identified the assailants.

"There's no way anybody knows if it was somebody from Westport or elsewhere. ... I'm not making any admission," Thake said during a phone interview.

The local incidents are among a series of attacks in eastern and central Ontario against Asian-Canadian anglers, including 11 that resulted in complaints to the police, that were subject of an inquiry launched last fall by the commission.

Commissioner Barbara Hall told The Recorder and Times she has no doubt the attacks on Asian-Canadian anglers in Westport last fall were motivated by racial profiling."

"Runciman made it clear he hasn't changed his mind based on the final report issued Tuesday.

"I don't give it much credibility. They draw conclusions without having any sort of point-counterpoint or testimony for the defence," said Runciman.

"They are tarring the community without any documented evidence."

Runciman said there is a growing body of complaints against the commission and its method of operations."
http://tinyurl.com/6663f4 (brockville)

My God, can you imagine spending $5 on this monstrosity, never mind $33.6 million?

Guess I just don't understand art, but I wouldn't want to look at this every day, or even once more.

Mao Stlong say, Human Lights galbage. Lun away, quickry.

"One did accept a brochure, took a look at it and muttered "garbage" in Chinese as he walked away."
...-

"Beijing Olympics protest lands in middle of Chinese tour
By THE CANADIAN PRESS

OTTAWA - Protesters hit a lot closer to home than they could have hoped for as they took their message of Chinese human-rights abuses to Parliament Hill on Wednesday.

The Global Human Rights Torch relay ran right into the middle of scores of Chinese tourists.

The Olympic-like torch has been around the world and is now being carried across Canada to draw attention to Chinese abuses ahead of the Beijing Olympics in August.

The reaction of Chinese tourists to the Parliament Hill protest was mixed. Some showed passive interest in placards declaring human-rights abuses, while others ran away when protesters tried to hand them information pamphlets."
http://tinyurl.com/5uyw7t

"To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson

Electoral law changed by Cretin ensures that EVERY political party in this nation now has its' lips wrapped around your wallet - whether you want it or not.

Looks like Cretin pulled the best joke of all - and how often do you hear your MP talk about it?

Sucker.

Believe me, as a teacher, the jackal like behaviour of the Muslim bullies in England towards the police is, though more extreme, similar to the subversive and pack like behaviour of many of our entitled kids towards teachers. Really. There are many incidents in classrooms like the one on this clip--and, teachers are not allowed to touch the students.

I can imagine what the police were feeling (e.g., like quitting!) as they backed away from the close to violent crowd: any physical retaliation would have required multi pages of documentation and, most probably, a reprimand from the higher-ups. The bullies? Home, scott free.

The authorities' cowardly concern for the rights of the abusers over those of the abused--it's called appeasement--is part of the collapse of our civilization. I shudder when I think of the kind of world we'll live in when the bullies are completely in charge.

Kyrie eleison.

Hardboiled:

You, like many, misinterpret the meaning of the First Amendment. Where it says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..", it has a very specific meaning. At the time the Amendment was being written, in Britain, the Church of England (CE) was "established" - that is, it was the official church of the country. The Sovereign is required to be a member of the church, the church is supported by the government, etc. (Some of us may remember in grade school challenging others to state the longest word in English - "antidisestablishmentarianism" - the doctrine of being opposed to the disestablishment of the CE.)

I don't doubt the Founding Fathers expected America to be a Christian country, but they didn't want any particular branch - Quaker, Methodist, Calvinist, Presbyterian, etc. - to have the support of the government, hence the wording of the First. Look at the numerous references to God in the Declaration of Independence, the fact that all US coins must bear the motto "In God We Trust", etc., and it's clear that "separation of church and state" is a gross misinterpretation of the First Amendment. Note also that the Amendment refers only to Congress, and not state or municipal governments. The extension into these areas not mentioned in the Constitution is typical of the Supreme Court's invention of doctrines, such as the non-existent "right to privacy" cited in Roe v. Wade, etc.

Youtube censored the video. Is Youtube run by Chinese Communist gangsters?

Kevni, it has been since Henry VIII. I fully expect the Muslim Council Of "Britain", read Saudi Arabia, to protest the requirement for the monarch to be C of E; not any protestant, mind you, but C of E. No Quakers and certainly no Catholics. Muslims, tough shit.

This gem from the WFP:

"Thibault is standing his ground and challenging parliament to address the growing libel chill threat, raising the spectre that frivolous lawsuits could silence legitimate parliamentary inquiry and the role of the opposition to hold the government accountable."

It's called parliamentary immunity. The liberals chose to go outside of it and talk about many things in the media. They tied their own noose

also:

"imagine how that could have gagged Fraser's incendiary report on the Liberal sponsorship scandal in February 2004 -- the issue that brought the Harperites to power. Imagine further how the Conservatives could have been libel-chilled from probing it."

I seem to recall:

1) The conservatives waited until the first gomery report to make accusations. Until then, they only asked questions. Something the liberals cannot seem to do.

2) The conservatives also made their accusations within parliament. Parliamentary immunity anyone?

KevinB:

What hardboiled and those of his ilk do not understand is the US Constitution (the ultimate of Western expression) defined freedom of religion, as you quite correctly point out, as individual freedom to practise the religion of their choice.

It was a protection of the individual against state-imposed religion. In the example you cited, the Church of England, which is the official religion.

Naturally, we all know how well the Anglican diocese of Canada has done.

Hardboiled makes a common mistake, believing that religion is a means of control over others, rather than a way to inner peace through self-control.

The US constitution no more banned religious people from public office than it sanctioned official speech as approved by the state, another phrase in the First Amendment.

Of course, in Canada we are told that free speech is not a Canadian value.

Liberal MP Holland hung out to dry by MPs, including his own Liberals.
Holland is dead meat.
...-

"House setting 'dangerous precedent' over legal fees: MP"
http://tinyurl.com/6mrryl

Hey Darrell

I provided the links and facts you asked for in the other thread, re: Wolfowitz's declaration that WMDs were the rationale for the war that "everyone agreed on" and cited the explicit lies told in the run up to the war.

No response. how come? Not a fan of reality?

reality
John Kerry is on record stating that he thought saddamm had wmd, as is Hilary Clinton, so if Kerry had won it would be all Kerry’s fault not all Bushes, they are both a couple of politicians what more can you expect. And you have to have someone to blame, so blame Bush, blame Libby blame Rice, but for god’s sake do not blame the sunni for killing their Iraqi brothers, Or the foreign sewersiders for killing innocents and causing this to drag on and on.

Sometimes I do, you know, other things. Thank you for the links. I believe Wolfowitz's words are ambiguous at best. You may well be correct, but I'm not convinced.

As pointless as it seems discussing this, and as much as I hate risking Kate's wrath for carrying on like this, I don't believe the Bush administration was flat out lying any more than I believe that any of the senior Democratic leadership was lying when they made the following statements, based on essentially the same intelligence:

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998.

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998.

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998.

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998.

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998.

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999.

"There is no doubt that...Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, Dec, 5, 2001.

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
Sen. Carl Levin (d, MI), Sept. 19, 2002.

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seing and developing weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002.

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002.

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force — if necessary — to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002.

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years . We also should remember we have alway s underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Jay Rockerfeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002,

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do."
Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002.

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction. "[W]ithout question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. And now he has continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ...
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003.

In fairness, it should be noted that some of these quotes were assembled in an attempt to discredit the speakers, and that while they are (as far as I can find out) essentially accurate, in that they are accurate reproductions of the speakers' words, those words were sometimes part of a broader effort to speak against a military response to Iraq.

Regardless, it's pretty clear that most everybody was under the impression that Iraq presented a genuine threat to American and Western interests.

(My personal theory is that Saddam himself was under the impression that he possessed, or would shortly possess, these weapons. I believe his own scientists lied to him about the state of their readiness out of fear for their lives.)

As I said, I have no doubt that the Bush administration exploited the situation presented to them in 2001 but I've seen nothing to convince me that they engineered that situation from whole cloth, or simply lied about it -- particularly knowing that they would be found out when no weapons turned up. Just doesn't make sense.

Darrell:

Iraq and Afghanistan are two quite separate situations.

The Iraq question had been ongoing since the first Gulf War and mention of WMD's was in every UN resolution signed by Security Council members.

Part of the terms of surrender by Saddam was to reveal the location of his WMD's.

At some point action was inevitable and 9/11 did provide and unexpected opportunity to resolve the Iraq question which, if you look at your timelines and quotes, was a concern of the US before 9/11.

Darrell:

All anybody would have to do is read the text of UN Resolution 1441 and see the language that it was a final warning to Saddam to understand that this was an ongoing issue.

There were 11 previous resolutions signed by UN Security Council members which specifically mentioned WMD.

That had been going on for more than a dozen years and anybody who does not know this simply has not been paying attention.

SYF, you're quite right.

Incidentally, I lived in Ottawa for much of the 1990s, not far from the Iraqi embassy on Embassy Row, when Saddam was committing so many of his atrocities, quite openly. I don't recall a single protest against the treatment of the Iraqi people until the Americans became involved.

World Hockey Championship Update:

Returned home yesterday (Tuesday) after watching another six games, including 3 on Monday.

Saturday was Canada vs. Germany. As I'm sure everyone is aware, we manhandled the Krauts 10-1. A couple of notes: Eric Staal scored four goals (including a one-handed backhand chip into an open net - when you're hot, you're hot!) two days before his 90-year old grandfather passed away. I hope the old guy was able to watch the game, and went to his eternal rest happy. Second, I was impressed with how Hitchcock didn't run up the score (Canada scored 6 in the 1st, 3 in the 2nd, and 1 in the 3rd); he started playing all four lines equally, and in the 3rd, the big line of Nash, Heatley and Getzlaf had very short shifts. No need to humiliate anyone. Overall, it was a fun game to watch without any of the nailbiting of the 2-1 win over Norway.

After the game, it was raining in Halifax, and I was wearing a waterproof shell over my Canada jersey. The shell is black, with red and orange flashes on the shoulder, which happen to be German colours. My friend and I were standing in an alcove, waiting for his cousin to pick us up, when a German fan walked by. Spotting my friend's Team Canada jersey, he walked up, shook Ken's hand, and said "You were the better team, you deserved to win", which we thought was very nice of him. Then he punched me lightly on the shoulder, and said "We are the losers tonight!". Ken and I were greatly amused.

Sunday, it was those crazy Latvian fans vs. Norway. The bulk of them were bunched behind one net, and the noise started before the puck was dropped. "Lat-vi-a, Lat-vi-a" boomed out, accompanied by the drums and horns, and it didn't stop as the players responded with a 4-1 victory. My friend and I had picked up Latvian flags, along with hundreds of other Canadian fans, and we were waving them right along. Afterwards, throngs of them were marching arm-in-arm down the street, singing and cheering. Great fun!

Then came the US-Finland game. The winner would doubtless get second place in the group. The stronger, bigger Americans dominated the first half of the game, but only led 2-0. Then came the infamous "side door" goal (a Finnish shot went through the mesh on the side of the net). The American bench went crazy, but to no avail. The video goal judge counted it (and was later sent home by the IIHF). US coach John Tortorella had some amusing comments the next day "Goal? What goal?" re: the video judge: "I'm not suggesting stupidity; I'm suggesting blindness", "the guy has problems - he needs to see a doctor", "I've heard about the horrors of international officiating - now I'm living it!". To his credit, he also said that he didn't think his team deserved to win the game.

The phantom goal energized the Finns, and they added a pair to steal a 3-2 victory. As the buzzer sounded to end the game, some pushing and shoving ensued on the north boards. When the linemen and refs rushed in to break that up, David Backes of the US, and Amsso Salmela of Finland were having a terrific scrap on the south boards - I haven't seen a fight than intense in the NHL in years. For some reason, Salmela wouldn't drop his stick, which allowed Backes to punish him to the extent of a broken nose. Both received match penalties, which was great news for Canada, as Olli Jokinen of Finland had earlier received a match penalty on a very ugly looking hit from behind into the boards. That meant the Finns would be without two of their better players for the Monday showdown with Canada.

Monday, it was hockey-hockey-hockey, as we had three games scheduled. The first was US-Norway, and the Americans, to their credit, did not play an ugly, cheap shot game, but relied on their speed and skill to demolish the Norwegians 9-1.

Then it was Canada-Finland. This game had first place in the group on the line, and a loss would mean another game against the US. Canada got off to a great start, as Ryan Getzlaf split the defense and lofted a shot into the net after only 33 seconds. The scoreboard flashed a shot of a beaming Stephen Harper applauding along with everyone else.

A bad clearing pass by Pascal Leclair led to a short handed goal by Finland, and some of us started shifting uneasily in our seats. Was this another Norway? Then, Shane Doan tried to take a shot from the slot, but the puck rolled off his stick. Un-Doan-ted, he picked it back up and from an impossible angle fired it into the opposite side for a 2-1 lead.

The first ten minutes of the second were all Finland, and Leclair had to make a number of great saves. There was grumbling all around us. Hitchcock responded by double-shifting the Nash-Heatley-Getzlaf line, and they responded. Getzlaf made a neat pass to Heatley in the corner, and he walked out along the red line before stuffing a backhander in the short side for a 3-1 lead. Sharp later added a short-handed goal for a 4-1 lead, and early in the 3rd, Doan added his second on the often-practiced but rarely seen double ricochet off stick and defenceman's head into an empty net. Philstrom later scored for the Finns, but Heatley answered with another, and Ruutu added a meaningless goal with 30 seconds left to round out the scoring.

For the last two minutes, the Canadian fans were all on their feet, clapping and cheering and stomping their feet. Having watched that on TV, I can tell you it's nothing like being there; TV gives you no idea of the wall of sound that's out there. I may never get another chance to see this event live, and I'm awfully grateful to have had this opportunity.

Between periods, Harper was not given a moment's rest - he was constantly shaking hands, posing for pictures, and signing autographs. There was a long line up of people (all vetted by the RCMP, apparently) waiting for a few moments with the PM. And I give Harper full marks for sitting down in the seats with the fans; I have no doubt that PM PM, or Cretin would have commandeered a private box to save them the discomfort of rubbing shoulders with the common people.

Our last game was Latvia-Germany, and we were rooting for the Latvians - if they got a point, they would be our opposition in the quarter-finals instead of Norway, and we thought the fans deserved one more game. Latvia took the lead three times, but the superior speed, strength, and skill of the Germans won out; by the middle of the third, the exhausted Latvians were falling all over the ice, and hooking and holding, which meant a steady stream to the penalty box. The Germans scored 3 unanswered goals in the 3rd to take a well deserved 5-3 victory.

This was my first visit to Halifax, and I found it a delightful place. I'm quite impressed with the effort they've clearly made to maintain the quality of the downtown core. I saw one Tim's, one Subway, and one McDonald's, and that was it for fast food chains (there are apparently lots outside the downtown, but the city centre is relatively free). I was kind of surprised that there seemed to be an independent coffee shop on every corner, but no doughnut shops other than the aforementioned Tim's. Very few burger or chicken fast food spots either; pizza and pitas seemed to dominate. Lots of interesting shops, and again, all were independents, not chains. Finally, our hotel was at the southern end of downtown, and the rink was at the northern end. The walk was about 1.5 miles, so the core is quite compact and you don't need to be a slave to your car.

My friend and I agreed that if this event had been held in Toronto, it would have been lost. I don't doubt that we would have filled the ACC for the Canada games, and the US games might have attracted some more fans from Buffalo or Detroit, but the impromptu street parties, or watching the German fans singing - singing! - after Canada thrashed them 10-1, or watching the Finnish fans celebrate led by a guy in a lion suit - well, that would have all been sucked quietly into Toronto's grey hole.

I'll be watching the rest of the games on TV, and cheering for Canada. Hope a lot of you can join me! Over and out from Halifax.

SYF, we cross-posted. I was replying to your first post.

I have tried without success to remind bolik and others that the decision to go to war was entirely in the hands of Saddam. As you're aware the left has a singular ability to completely ignore historical facts.

My favourite Mark Steyn quote: "The socialist's two most feared enemies are history and reason."

"whether condoning sharia honor killings in this nation, or some Christian fundies stopping Sunday shopping."
Now there is a valid comparison.
Spoken like a true leftie.

Horny Toad

Well darrell -

The 'other things' you had to do certainly didn't preclude you from posting here on another issue a full two days after I'd posted the links and facts you had requested. You'll forgive me, since I had to come over here and drag a response out of you, if it seemed to me you weren't man enough to step up to the plate.

On what basis do you say there is ambiguity in Wolfowitz's declaration that the choice of WMDs as rationale was a 'bureaucratic' one that 'everyone could agree on'? The only possible meaning of his statement is that WMDs were a rationale out of many other possible ones which was chosen by consensus. Why else would Wolfowitz make the statement? No-one but a slavish Bush apologist like yourself could read anything else into it.

It's logical inference is that the threat of Saddam's WMD was known to be not so imminent as to make the war necessary - if so, there would have been no doubt among the planners from the outset what the war's rationale was. The inference is that WMD-as-rationale was arrived at as the one most likely to scare the public into supporting the war.

You are aware there was a White House Iraq Group (WHIG) whose purpose was to 'sell' the war to the public, right?

Your list of Dem statements is stale and moth-eaten - it's trotted out everytime anyone questions a Bush apologist about the lies in the run-up to war. Likely you've cut and pasted it from another site of your fellow 25%-er dead-enders who continue to support the man who can do no wrong.

Not sure what you think the list's relevance could be, unless it's to play some sort of partisan 'they did it too!' tit for tat game. Not sure why you think I support the Dems, who've been pathetically bullied by the Repubs for 8 years. Yes, they are culpable in having their milk money stolen, but the bullies, the Repubs, are far more culpable in doing the stealing.

In any case, I see nothing here which matches "Simply put, there is no doubt Saddam Hussein has WMD," as Cheney stated in an outright lie. I see nothing here which matches Rumsfeld's equally unequivocal lie that he knew Saddam had WMD, and further, knew exactly where they were.(seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/269394_rumsfeld08.html - 33k) I see nothing here which is morally comparable to Bush and Rice abusing the powers of their offices to repeat, in a steady drum beat for months, that Saddam was ready to create another Hiroshima in America.

Now: I've cited two outright lies by top administration officials and shown the pattern of misleading fear-mongering. This is way beyond your lame list of quotes largely stating that Saddam 'could' or is 'on the way' to getting WMD.

It seems to me that apologists like yourself have lost your moral bearings and are real threats to democracy when you go out of your way to excuse an administration which has gone out of its way to lie to, and mislead, its own people, about the most important decision a government can make. Is your partisan loyalty so strong, and your concern about the lives of American soldiers so minute that playing with the truth in this circumstance is acceptable to you? That's pretty appalling.

Lastly, your recurrent howler that the administration wouldn't have misled about WMD because they knew they'd be found out is absurd. They didn't 'know' anything - they thought they'd be greeted as liberators, or the war would be over in six months, or that the war would be paid for with oil proceeds. They took a reckless chance with the most sacred duty entrusted to a government and there's been hell to pay ever since.

You say "it doesn't make sense". Did the horrific mismanagement of the war from the beginning of the invasion 'make sense'? Did Bush's mismanagement of Katrina 'make sense'? Even if you're an apologist for him in that case too, there's no denying the perception of his disengagement there hurt him publically - his polls plumetted in the aftermath and haven't recovered since. It must be admitted that on the basis of 'optics' alone his actions there didn't make much sense.

However, your confidence that the administration's actions in Iraq have made a uniform sense from which their inability to find WMD is but an unfortunate deviation is touching and inspiring, I'm sure, to your fellow 25%-ers who eagerly await history's vindication of this deeply moral, honest, prudent and far-seeing administration.

Hey alan -

While you're blaming, maybe you could throw a little on Osama bin Laden too, huh?

Remember him? The guy who slaughtered three thousand people on American soil? The guy who had nothing do with Iraq at all?

Seems to me you people around here like to forget all about him. Dunno why. I know, the Pres said he's "not all that concerned about him."

But hey, the biggest mass murderer on US soil? He could use a little blame, too, right, after you're finished with Sunnis, etc?

Great hockey post, KevinB.

bolik:

Saddam's Hussein refusal to reveal the location of his WMD's ... ongoing issue backed by 12 UN resolutions dating back to the early 90's, the latest being 1441, whose wording said it was a final warning. Easily googled and includes the rationale of all the approving Security Council members.

Afghanistan. A recognition the country run by the medeival Taliban was harbouring al-Qaida, most of whom were foreign invaders from Pakistan. The UN gave its approval to remove Taliban regime after the events of 9/11.

Two separate issues. Two different actions.

Capice?

Golly, set you 'free'

How come they just didn't show the American public all them UN resolutions as the rationale for war if that was all that was needed?

Why did Cheney need to lie and Bush/Rice go on and on and on about mushroom clouds if the UN thing was such an airtight, compelling case?

The UN inspectors were in Iraq from Nov. 2002 and had to be evacuated in a hurry when Bush decided to start bombing anyway in March 2003. How come they weren't allowed to finish the job?

How come the top UN inspectors said the war wasn't justified?

Huh?

bolik:

If an idiot like me can research this all on my own, why would anybody else wait around for the government to do their research for them.

This stuff is readily available on the United Nations website.

Do yourself a favour and use your own God-given talent for something other than demonstrating your ignorance of history and inability to reason based on facts.

Read the language in the resolutions. 1441 is the most recent in an entire series.

Ask yourself, smarty-pants, why members of the entire security council signed these resolutions and gave detailed rationales as to why they demanded Saddam reveal the locations of the WMD he admitted to having in the surrender document after the First Gulf War.

If they were also lying about this, what does that say for their own credibility?

Gosh, set you free

That UN resolution is so clearly an all-encompassing rationale for war that Cheney didn't need to go around telling his lies. Bush/Rice didn't have to go scaring Americans with visions of Hiroshimas in their countries.

All they had to do was to present them this handy UN resolution, and the American people would have demanded they march off to war!

Wonder why they didn't present it. Guess it's just another one of those things that just don't make 'sense'.

Bolik logic.

Spreading poison gas over small Kurd villages and then plundering the following day while stepping carefully over the dead is OK.

Invading Kuwait using actions of atrocity to instill terror is OK.

Hmmm = TG

The UK ... beyond parody. Maybe . .

UK cheery note . .

** The electric truck industry in the UK appears to be going into overdrive!

Modec continues to land new accounts with their uniquely-engineered vehicle while over at Smith EV, they are celebrating a purchase order from their client, TNT, for 100 of their 7.5 ton Newton lorry (pictured above).

The sale marks a significant continuation of their corporate relationship as the express delivery giant had already placed an order for 50 vehicles last year. This additional complement to their EV fleet will replace an equal number of diesel vehicles. * *

AutoblogGreen.com

Nice! = TG

Please everyone...don't bother with bolik the troll. Yes, he is incapable of reason...but that isn't what is driving his posts...what's driving him is his desire to screw with us. You can heap mound after mound of facts and logic on his head and he'll still blather on. So, ignore him please, per Kate's instructions re: trolls.

Eeyore, I believe you're correct.

bolik, the very best thing that can be said about you is that you're a mindless, partisan drone, and an idiot. Goodbye.

Re: Kevin B Hockey update, you're right, the Halifax venue works for events like this. Since moving here a few months back I am pleasantly surprised at how vibrant downtown is. Only downside have found to downtown is parking, or lack of and the price to live on the peninsula.
Unfortunatly, I haven't been to any games but I must admit it was a heck of a lot of fun being downtown on the weekend with a world's worth of hockey fans. And not a single protest/riot in site.

The south shore of Nova Scotia. Heaven.

I have seen about a dozen stories on various newscasts regarding the polar bear being named a 'threatened' species. Not once has anyone mentioned the cold hard fact that their numbers are increasing.In fact,in the past week or so Parks Canada,has been considering allowing MORE hunters out in the wild to cull their numbers as they are becoming a very real danger.This is scary,the eco-elites have won a victory using emotion instead of reality. Beware of what comes up next,sportfishing comes to mind,you know it is very stressful to be pulled out of your habitat by a sharpened hook.

"whether condoning sharia honor killings in this nation, or some Christian fundies stopping Sunday shopping."
Now there is a valid comparison.
Spoken like a true leftie.
Horny Toad Posted by: Horny Toad at May 15, 2008 12:08 AM

:-) Once again, a conservative confuses a libertarian for a leftist.

The point of this is I do not want some religious zealot dictating what I can, or cannot do. It doesn't matter how large, or small, the item of dictation is.

I have used no moral equivalence above. Only that, forcing others to adhere to your religiously driven actions, is hideous.

Leftist and fundy nutjobs do the same thing - they want to control other people's actions.

The difference is simply WHAT actions are being controlled.

Hey Tg

So those atrocities were the rationale for the war? Do tell!

Here I thought it was WMD and all the mushroom cloud stuff spouted by the administration!

Where you goin' next with your great concern for the oppressed of the world, TG? China?

Or rather, where will you be sending the young people to die in your name next as you set peckong away on your keyboard, mastermind?

Oh, darrell

You've reverted to type. You ask for facts, someone presents them, and you run away with your hands over your ears, whining the equivalent of "You're a mean ol' poopy-head!"

So sorry your collision with the reality-based community was so traumatic.

Back to the bunker now!

I thought this was an interesting aside. Shows even in the past they played it easy & loose with news.

If a picture is worth a thousand words, the American Girl in Italy, now living in T.O., speaks volumes about perception and reality.

http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Strobel_Mike/2008/05/15/5571616-sun.php

Ha, ha Eeyyore

I'm the one who presented logic and facts. You guys don't know how to do anything but fling back ad hominems. You and Darrell sound like a couple of kids bawling at me on the playground with your childish insults.

Because that's all you have. You can't counter the facts I've presented so you retreat into invective.

You guys don't like being challenged because your ideas can't bear the light of objective reality. So you yelp mean names at the bad ol' "troll" and hope he'll go away. And leave you to your circle jerk.