Speaking as someone who was frequently dropped as a baby, I have to say that this does not really look all that bad.

Was this an islamophobic post....even though it uses content from certain muslims, and not all muslims would subscribe to this practice?

The next general question is, if this practice was started in Canada by this particular sect, would the authorities intervene and stop it or would they regulate it so that it could be allowed to happen? And would a CHRC/OHRC complaint be allowed to go forward to enable this practice....

I am just curious because I am not sure what to believe (oops sorry feel accouding Faisal Joseph)

I dont know what to "feel" anymore.

heck, bring those catchers over to Canaduh, the firefighters ranks are going to be seriously depleted in the next few years.

which sect of muslims are they?

It's not just Muslims; Hindus do it too. It's a regional thing.

Muslims,Hindus what does it matter. What kind of mental capacity must a group have to drop a kid like that.

Do they love their own children more than they hate us?

Maybe it should be;

Do any of them give a flying f#^k, either way?

Terrorizing kids like that has to leave a lasting impression.

Somebody please send them a few balls to bounce and toss. Crackpots.
There is a ritual that should be performed on these bozos but it's not printable here.

I think that the HRC should export some of our 'child's rights activists over to these people. Where are the helmets? How clean is that sheet? Some of the adults were smoking in that film....there is reason for 'concern' here and I am certain that those people would welcome some 'help'.

On the more sceptical hand, maybe this is a set-up:

Are these people members of the Michael Jackson cult crowd? Are they paid actors/actresses? Are those real babies?

Like Stephen, I just don't know what to 'feel' anymore.

But at least they're not breastfeeding in public.

Slow day Kate?

Wait until David Letterman sees this !

If no one gets hurt so what! Its not like their offering up the child to Moloch. So that they can be burned for prosperity. They did it for the gods fiscal intervention & fertility oddly enough. There is a 50 foot heap of baby bones & ashes at Cartage that attests to the practice.

We in our enlightenment call that abortion in the West. We do it for "economic" reasons as well. Only where prone to suck the brains from a baby's head as their being born. I ask ? Which is worse? Why do most Women get abortions? Than ask yourself what has changed?

Anyway this seems to be an echo from there own human sacrifice day's past, turned into a benign community tradition.

At least there not ripped from there Mothers womb to be sliced & diced. Nor the babies dashed to the ground. How many babies are killed at the state funded abortuaries?

What do they do if the sheet rips? Oopsie!

Our rite of passage was jumping off a big rock into the lake. Jumping off under your own power is kinda different than being chucked off as an infant, eh?

Lesson there, maybe?

its all good fun till someone puts out an eye.---quote ---everybodies Mum.

Also known as

a convenient way to have an 'accident' with a baby you don't want.

All cultures are equal.
Nobody has ever been hurt in 500 hundred years of throwing naked babies off a 4 story building into a sheet, there are no gays in Iran, and Islam is a religion of peace.

No one ever said religion or the religous had to have brains - most don't.

What this video does explain, however, is how "rage boy" and a many others - including a couple now living in Canada - were quite likely released a few degrees off perfectly horizontal.

And the ones that miss the blanket are called... HRC plaintiffs? Muhammed El Squishee? Glorious Leader?

Further proof Islam is the result of brain injuries

I'm with Revnant Dream on this...compared to the western culture, this is nothing.

Even without that perspective, I don't see this as a big deal...very odd...but not a big deal. I wouldn't promote it or encourage it...but I'm not gonna get worked up about it either. Seems harmless enough...babies are very resilient.

I think maybe Kate's a bit choked 'cause someone pulled the sheet out from under her when it was her turn.

"Further proof Islam is the result of brain injuries"

That's some heroic, profound thought there.

It accomplishes so much, too.

Why is it bouncing?

they stay with it into later life

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0z41u4yYypQ&feature=related

...that video pretty well explains islam to me.

Not ot make too fine of a point of it. These people are NOT Muslims. They are Indians, either Sikh or Hindu.
This is just a kind of ersatz Canada's Wonderland or 6 Flags over Texas or maybe even Disney World for the little tots.
Also helps get the phlegm from birth going and may help their little bowel movements as well.
All in all, just another fun day in the Punjab.

Meh, it's better than circumcision.

Nope they are muslims, that line about 1000's of muslim parents, at a mosque.....

that sort of clued me in

That sounds great, Johnny, I'm sure you would just love this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2176885.stm

Hello

People think culture and religion is the same
Muslim look also represent darker skin and while dress therefore if you go to Brampton Ontario you will see the face that so many think they are Muslim while they are Hindo or Sik religion

Plus Muslim are multiculture that some people do some kind of funny or may scary for other

again wonderland and Disney land and all fun game is used for young child not too many parent are suport those game as well

For my opinin as a Muslim person surprised seeing this film for first time or heard about it,when I saw that video I am not supporting this game since child brain is very senstive in younger age and should not do this kind of wrong game. they must stop this game

again do not confuse religion with Islam

even Muslim woman wear the face and eyes is culture not part of religion of Islam again.

In Islam woman should not show their hair, legs and upper hand or wear revealing cloth but never Islam said wear or cover eyes or lip.
====
for know about real law in Islam go to reliable source of Islam since some web page are not reliable and not every write of each book is reliable
we have 1.3 billion Muslim in world.
regard to circumcision is law for all religion even if you asked Jewish they do circumcision and Philipin are doing circumcision for boyes and only christinaty change and mad it option since circumcision is part of health for men not for fun. again if you agree with circucision since more than half men in world agree with it include Jewih and Muslim and some of chinese we can not argue since it is part of law in Islam for health

=====
http://www.al-islam.org/

All cultures are equal.
Nobody has ever been hurt in 500 hundred years of throwing naked babies off a 4 story building into a sheet, there are no gays in Iran, and Islam is a religion of peace.
---Rickfisher

Best comment so far!

Hassam, where did they get that stupid islam law thing about women having to cover their hair, arms and leggs? What was the purpose of something that stupid?

I admit it,

I am a,

throw-baby-from-fifthy-feet-high-building-o-phobe.

I wonder if they would be charged here in Canada for that throwing baby off high building stunt?

I can just see the socialist coming to the rescue, stating that it is an islamic cultural tradition, and part of multicultural make-up of Canada.

"officer, itd ok, we do it all da time back home, good for da babies, give them that feeling of a suicide bomber experience. It is the will of allah."

"Slow day Kate?"

Depends on what you mean by "slow", I guess. In addition to entertaining you, I worked until 1:00 am this morning on a design layout, then was up at 6 am and spent most of the day at the body shop, prepping and repainting motorcycle parts. I also hauled a dog to the vet for a health certificate, then to Ag Canada for certification, picked up my travel docs for my trip next week to Beijing.

I just got home, where I still have a kennel to care for, artwork to finalize for the bike I'm painting tomorrow, and three dogs to help groom for the dog show tomorrow morning.

And you, Johnny? Get much accomplished beyond trolling other people's blogs hoping to lure a few readers through linkbacks to your own dismal little effort?

So THAT's what Michael Jackson was practising for!

Well, thanks for asking Kate. Yeah, I actually have a job or two, just like you. Who would have thunk it, eh? But clearly you are very hard working. And successful, to hear you tell it. Are you white, by any chance?

Worked one of my two jobs, did some linkless writing, thought for myself, battled a couple of bigot dragons...

All in all just another day in paradise. Anyhow Kate, hope you find the time to put your feet up, maybe down a brew, toss a dart or two at your HRC board.

Oh, and by the way Kate...do not feed the troll ;-)

..."again do not confuse religion with Islam"

Ge real. The flavor of the Death Cult varies from one Islamic country to another, but, the rantings of the Supreme Nutcase codified in the Koran corrupts every society that it has touched down upon. I don't care if you are an Irish Amerian convert in your cell in a maximum security prison, Islam is a haven for macho sociopaths.

Islam is a political entity as well as a religion.

Nice try, Hassan, but trying sanitize the Islamic nightmare isn't working for you.

Somewhere Michael Jackson is saying, "hey, that's cool. Next time I can drop the baby."

How did you guys think so many Muslim virgins made it into heaven?

Meh, it's better than circumcision.

Posted by: Travis at May 1, 2008 5:57 PM

if they are decendants of Ishmeal ie - Arabs
they wait a few year before slicing of the front end of the nether parts. so a few minutes of terror ever 10 years till you work your way up to TNT.

Maudlin you fool Kate wasn't feeding you she was slapping you in the chops.

New readers with interesting insights are always welcome here, but twits with nothing useful to say are well and truly ignored, as you will find out.

Your 2 milliseconds of fame are over.

Kate, may I?
Ah Johnny, why do you post here, I'm truly curious. I'll make an assumption that most readers of SDA don't care for your marinated left wing logic. You can't seriously think that you have a following.
This leads me to believe that you're here to debate Kate?
Sorry Johnny, but i'm pretty sure that she has better things to do, like scooping up after her dogs.
Priorities...

"Get much accomplished beyond trolling other people's blogs hoping to lure a few readers through linkbacks to your own dismal little effort?"

ROFL - ouch

Great smackdown! Still chuckling at that.

G'night, Johnny.

mhb23re
at gmail d0t calm

...sure beats being sling shot out of a Jolly-Jumper by your big sister.

Tomax7 at 10:35 wins!

We should get one of these going in Canada.

The trick is to keep em landing on the sheet.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh called on parents in India to stop seeing girls as an economic liability and to end the practice of killing unborn female foetuses.

Singh's appeal on India's 59th Independence Day came four days after the grisly discovery of 25 female foetuses from a private clinic in northern Punjab state, which has the country's lowest sex ratio due to rampant female foeticide.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=060815170658.0gj48car&show_article=1

Goodness gracious Kate, one of your devotees actually requested permission to address me. You are very powerful. Why do I post here? I oppose Kate's world view, that's why. Is this rocket science to you graduates of SDA High?

You agree with Kate's POV, I don't. Pretty simple.

"You are very powerful"

Maybe Johnny suffers from blog envy.

I don't think I saw any women watching the baby tossing. Huh. I wonder why.

I don't think I saw any women watching the baby tossing. Huh. I wonder why. wendy.g

~ likely home delivering the next bouncy bundle of joy...

"You agree with Kate's POV, I don't. Pretty simple."
Yeah, but every time that she responds to you she smacks you down like the ignorant dick that you are. Yet you keep coming back.
Must be a masochist thing.

multirec: if that's your idea of a smackdown dear heart you've got one very weak chin ;-)

Well, thanks for asking Kate. Yeah, I actually have a job...

Are you white, by any chance? -another goofy lib

By chance were you dropped on your head from the second story during a baby-bouncing ritual?

..kinda did the same thing to my little brother when he was about four years old. We had been playing with homemade parachute toys, you know, a paper napkin with lengths of thread tied to each corner of the unfolded napkin, the opposite ends of the thread tied to a 9/16 s.a.e. fine thread nut. Deftly fold the napkin, gently wrap the threads around the napkin and throw the whole shebang as high as you can up in the air.... viola the nut gently parachutes to the ground. What fun.

Take one large card board box approximately 2ftx3ftx3ft, punch holes in the four corners of the top of the box, tie four approximately five foot lengths of 3/8 inch cotton rope through the holes on each corner of the box, tie the other ends of rope to the four corners of your mother's largest bed spread, take entire apparatus to mother and father's second story bedroom with balcony, add little baby brother and push off balcony.... the bed spread never opened up, never left his little head. Later in life he had three sons and my little sister had three of her own, no brother tossing was allowed,ritual lasted only one generation.

I hear you get bonus points for catching them on the first bounce.

What ever you say little Johnny boy. Keep posting though, I get a kick out of watching you make a fool out of yourself.

Spartan-esque.

Except, if the Spartans were doing it, you would be falling over each other to praise them.

How representative is this practice of a religion/people? Probably a lot less representative in terms of proportion than alchohlic wife and children-beaters. And the authorities can intervene at any point in both cases, but they only do so when they are asked to.

Perspective hurts.

That should have read alcoholic wife and child-beaters in Canada.

"...which has the country's lowest sex ratio due to rampant female foeticide."
Well I can see where that that might lead to a decline in 'getting some' down the road. 'Gender Ratio' I might believe. ;)

Actually if you watch the video closely that one guy seems to have spring loaded arm extensions!
See how fast he is? Picked the baby right out of the air on the first bounce, not his first baby bouncing holiday event for sure.

And you point is ? jing?

Did you delete 'crusaders' before using 'Spartans'?

Please list the number woman's shelters you've volunteered in, say in this last decade or hey, the one before, k? Food banks? Gave good winter clothing to poor and needy families? After all that's where these wives and children of abusive alcoholic spouses wind up...right?

"again do not confuse religion with Islam"
there is typing error
the correction:

" again do not confuse culture and every body look like Muslim with Islam and Muslim people"

for more information of laws in Islam go to this web page

http://www.al-islam.org/

so many country before accept Islam as their country religion were not Muslim and for some reason they kept their culture before Islam to their country.

now this is up to goverment of India and their law of supporting small children right and criminla law to forbid those kind of wrong culture.

People think as soon as see the look like Indian with white dress they must be they are Muslim

in relgion of Islam even Tatoo are banned
since in Islam religion think Tatoo you hurt your skin
Islam is the perfect religion for life for spriritual peace and for civil and criminal
again some people think Islam allow young men go and blow up yourself for name of Islam that is not part of Islam law

Never Prophet Mohamed did kill any innocent men or woman for sake of power and money.

all new century or worldwar two if you look at
history chanell came from hatfull people who grow up bad and end up to become criminal
real roat of all criminal act is hate or wrong culture
such as like Nazi christian German that Hilter who German soldure said Hi hitler to him to go and kill Jewish and otehr christian who were not German for hate and they think they are better than other race is not acceptable belief
or steal their land of Muslim like Sahonim in Israel who used religion of Jewish to Kill Muslim
or United stated used as example Japan nuclear weapn to scare world they think they have right to steal all source of attack other contry and made decision for world by killing innocent people or Samda Hossain who used name of Islam to kill his own people and family
people used relgion to kill are not human becuase nature of all good religion is peace

Never Prophet Mohamed did kill any innocent men or woman for sake of power and money. hassan

Hassan, he DID exploit a young girl, for his sexual and social standing. Married at 6 but not touched sexually until AGE NINE!?

AS well anyone who risks their lives by declaring that they do not want to be a muslim is not in a religion, but a cult.

Separation of church and state.
NO SHARIA LAW HERE.

Nazi were not Christians either, you need more informed sources.

The rest of your rant sounds like a bad cbc documentary program...

"in relgion of Islam even Tatoo are banned"

Is it like the clitoris then?

Not welcome in Muslim cultures? hmmm

So if a Muslim man gets a tatoo, what happens to him?

Rob C: your comment about these folks being backward or whatever is off the mark. I'm sure westerners might see something like acupuncture being practised and think WTF, but research (western style research) has shown those eastern kinds of approaches work. How come no one here is asking or interested in the symbolism of this ritual?

The answer is that you don't have any curiousity about these rituals because you've already decided they are not legitimate on any level.

We can park our infants in front of a cathode ray machine for all the hours of the day and night, but these folks are nuts because they engage in a ritual that likely gives the child a sense of flying or floating.

Johnny, go study stats for ABI-I - Acqired Brain Injuries in infants, k?

Brain injury is accumulative and can result in brain lesions, personality disorders, mental impairments and fine motor skill disabilities, decades later. When we see skateboarders without head gear, we think sadly, future client of ABI...

"in front of a cathode ray machine for all the hours of the day and night,..."

Really? Do you actually think before you type?

How come no one here is asking...the answer is...Johnny girl having a Q and A session with himself,kinda like one hand clapping.Parking your kid in front a T.V. all day long might be how you raised your kids or how you were raised but don't take it out on us,you know,non-sheeple.

I'm Dhimmiphobic and proud of it. Still ...

As far as dropping babies off tall buildings into a sheet, it's a curious custom but as long as nobody gets hurt, what the harm?

Great entertainment, at least.

Michael Jackson must be so jealous.

You can crack wise all day long but you cannot dismiss the argument so easily. Interesting how Kate reserves her censure for dissenters but is apparently fine with the off topic insulting belching that masquerades as debate here.

I am not concerned with the rabble. Way above that by now. Again, the point: there are rituals, including the one that Kate has chosen to mock, in other cultures and those rituals are founded in understandings within that culture.

Do you think for one moment that some of our western (white) rituals don't look odd to others? Grow up for God's sake. Part of the response to this video, by some, is to suggest the babes are being harmed or damaged and that the damage might be long lasting.

I counter with a comment about the short and/or long term damage that may be a consequence of a western parenting practise (tv set baby sitter) and the drivel spews forth.

I appeal to some of Kate's more intelligent readers to at least be adult enough to concede (in private)there are valid cultural practises outside of North America.

"And you point is ? jing?"

My point is that it is a little more dangerous than dunking a child in a bucket of water, which, if anything, is as tormenting as a freefall, but its an article of faith. No more, and no less. It has nothing to do with Islam or Hinduism or whatever. Its a local tradition that probably dates back to as long ago as the Ancient Greeks. India and China are continuous civilizations, with many traditions and beliefs surviving since time immemorial.

"Did you delete 'crusaders' before using 'Spartans'?"

Nah. The crusaders didn't institutionalize random killing. They were just your ragtag bunch of unemployed and low skill workers who saw an opportunity for plunder. And the pope promised them salvation, too. Hardly the same as the Spartans. The spartans had civilization and institutions. The crusaders were, after all, the descendants of the barbarian hordes that the Romans despised.

And I don't have to prove my charity credentials to you. Let's put it this way - I haven't lived in a hole of a town in some isolated part of Canada for my entire life. Been around the world. Seen a couple of things. Learnt from them. Its called keeping an open mind.

The child gets a floating or flying sensation,Johnny thinks these kids are filled with helium,I appeal to some of Kate's more intelligent trolls to be adult enough...sorry,bit of an oxymoron,troll and intelligent.

Interesting how Kate reserves her censure for dissenters... -sensitive lib dingleberry

Also interesting how on lib blogs like kinsella's, 'censure' becomes 'censor'.

Freedom Fan: every once in a blue moon try swinging at a ball that's actually been pitched. Did I indicate my feelings were hurt? I'm emphasizing, again, the standard established by Kate here.

My guess is that she would like those standards taken at least semi-seriously. She has, once or twice, gotten pretty pissed at me for breaching the guidelines. If you go over this thread you'll see that my comments are some of the least insulting, employ relatively few personal attacks etc.

I've made my point. My habit is to check for well thought out responses. There have been one or two on this thread. I don't think that's flattering of this readership.

This really brings out the racists, hey. Let's make fun of foriegn brown people's cultural events. The everyone not white is a muslim idiots really make me laugh at their stupidty and ignorance of the world.

It just goes to show that despite the attempts to make the site look like a mainstream politics site it's just another stormfront without the jew hatred - they are friends of convience for know - but their liberal social views and just intelligence will exclude them eventually from the fascists of SDA

What if a father were allowed to drop his baby only after allowing same to be done to himself, first? How many babies would be dropped? None.

We laugh at the newfies, decades now as I can attest. They're still not suing and whining..

The Swedes nail the Norwegians, the Greeks nail the Albanians, the .... you get the picture.

OUR society and culture has evolved in the last 60 years in leaps and bounds. Others need to catch up.

Why do you think we need child restraining seats?
Had to make it law!
Why is that?

Why is it that it's racist for us to point out the dangers of doing this to a child? They also cut they foreheads of babies to the point of flowing blood for 'culture' guess that's ok with some folks; not me, I think it's child abuse, period.

If their was any real danger, they wouldn't be doing it. This was posted to worry about the children but to mock and spout shit about brown people(or muslims as they are all known - to ignorant SDA regulars) this is what makes it racist.

Don't act like you don't know Kate or as if this is yr first visit to SDA - come on - we'll all know what the response to this is supposed to be.

Johnny's made his point,whatever that is.For more well thought out responses go read sir john's comments.

please excuse my poor grammer - I was writing in a hurry. Btw India is a beautiful country. I was lucky enough to visit new Dehli with a friend in '98 and the people are wonderful and kind, very funny and lots to see and do.

I don't know who Maudlin is, never been to his site but he seems to have opinions similar to the average leftist

so anyway,

why are leftists always defending one thing and the opposite of that thing at the same time?

Leftists are the ones who want laws such as the one that forces you to wear a helmet to go on a bicycle ride,

but leftists see nothing wrong with dropping babies that have no protection at all - not even a bicycle helmet - from 50 foot high buildings.

Scratch a lefty,find a hypocrite.

"why are leftists always defending one thing and the opposite of that thing at the same time?"

For the same reason that rightists support freedom of speech but bristle at any opinions that don't conform with their own. For the same reason that rightists support freedom of expression, or freedom to feed, but get outraged at the sight of bare breasts. Think breastfeeding thread on this site. Or the American Attorney-generals decision to cover the bare breast of a marble statue.

Hypocrisy is not the sole domain of any side.

Scratch a righty, find a hypocrite who is to daft to understand what hypocrisy is.

This really brings out the racists, hey. Let's make fun of foriegn brown people's cultural events.

-another brain-dead lib

Yes, just so you don't haul us before the CHRC commisars as being racist for ridiculing stupid, dangerous, and illiberal traditions in other cultures, I urge everyone to drop you on your head from a two story building (we promise to catch you ... honest). Perhaps your world view would improve; couldn't hurt anyway.

And I don't have to prove my charity credentials to you. Let's put it this way - I haven't lived in a hole of a town in some isolated part of Canada for my entire life. Been around the world. Seen a couple of things. Learnt from them. Its called keeping an open mind.
Posted by: jing at May 2, 2008 1:20 PM

Well good for you jing!
Please keep on, you've much to learn.

oh and by the way, my "skin" is dark, so was my papa's and his mother's, even darker...jet black long hair too - never cut.

To is spelled too,or are you too daft to know that?

Hypocrisy is not the sole domain of any side. -pigeon droppings

So according to Libs, Conservatives are 'hypocritical' for defending freedom of speech while denouncing things they don't like (also free speech).

Thanks pigeon, for once again for confirming my premise:

Liberals are either insane, dishonest, intellectually lazy or some combination. -Freedom Fan

Say, isn't defending free speech supposed to be the job of Liberals? Glad we could be of assistance to the honorable Keith Martin. The rest of the Libs are AWOL.

Bird brain pigeon doesn't have the capacity to think beyond what the lapdog msm feeds him/her.

I do not know why leftists are the way they are, but I know I am not surprised they are defending the dangerous baby tossing.

Anything non-white, non-westerner, non-catholic, non-Jewish, non-conservative people do is always fine by them.

on the other hand no matter how right or how great what some white, westerner, catholic, Jewish, conservative people do, they always find something to complain about.

Leftists do not judge the act, they judge by whom is doing it.

They are the supreme bigots.

I have a sister in-law who is an entrenched lefty.When confronted with facts and reason that she can't refute her only response is,"yeah,I guess you are right",but she remains a lefty regardless of the fact that she can't defend anything the media feeds her which she readily gulps down.

Leftists do not judge the act, they judge by whom is doing it. They are the supreme bigots. -Friend of the USA

Exactly. The current example would be jeremiah-the-pariah wright. He is a big time Lib and a world class bigot. As he was spouting his race hatred and treason, most Libs ran to his defense proclaiming well he has a point.

Wright, who earned a doctorate degree, has a very simple way of identifying good and evil: White- Bad, Black- Good. Kinda like the rudderless Lib commenters here and those in the CHRC who see the world in laughably simplistic, superficial terms.

"To is spelled too,or are you too daft to know that?"

Trust you to be too daft to actually understand what I wrote, focusing instead on a typing error. You must feel so proud.

"Bird brain pigeon doesn't have the capacity to think beyond what the lapdog msm feeds him/her."

LDD doesn't have the capacity to think beyond what the lapdog sda feeds him/her.

See. Easy as that. BIrd brain pigeon. I like. I hope you didn't hurt your brain coming up with that one.

"So according to Libs, Conservatives are 'hypocritical' for defending freedom of speech while denouncing things they don't like (also free speech)."

"Liberals are either insane, dishonest, intellectually lazy or some combination. -Freedom Fan"

Ah yes, another semantical joust with an intellectual icon of sda. If you want insanity, dishonesty, or intellectual laziness, you should just scroll above to look at the presence of those three traits in your attempt to equate banning free speech with free speech, albeith with the free speech being used to ban free speech. Or is that too deep for you?

PS- I am not pigeon. I am friend of Pigeon.

I don't know what the Liberals are doing, but it seems that only a conservative of your ilk would think of using Free Speech to demand that free speech be banned. Its called hypocrisy.

"Leftists do not judge the act, they judge by whom is doing it. They are the supreme bigots. -Friend of the USA"

Ditto the right-wing, especially when the actions come from those who the right has sympathy for. Come to think of it, there's not much discussion of the bizzare catholic rituals in America, you know, the ones that involve boys. Didn't the Pope just give a speech about that. And of course, it was duly ignored, because those acts don't nearly compare to this one, eh?

"When confronted with facts and reason that she can't refute her only response is,"yeah,I guess you are right""

And what do right-wingers do when they are confronted with facts?

Call people names (Bird brain pigeon), accuse them of insanity, intellectual laziness etc.

Learn from the lefty. At the very least, at least she accepts facts, which is a redeeming trait missing in a lot of people here.

Oh I forgot. LDD knows ALL the facts. From here, no doubt.

... it seems that only a conservative of your ilk would think of using Free Speech to demand that free speech be banned. -pigeon buddy

"So according to Libs, Conservatives are 'hypocritical' for defending freedom of speech while denouncing things they don't like (also free speech)."

Support the premise of freedom of speech/expression/opinion, but demand the banning of anything that doesn't conform with your views.

Conservatives don't say "I don't like it. But let it be". They say "I don't like it. Get it out of my face (and ban it from public broadcasting)".

And when people disagree, they engage in pointless rants. Like yourself.

"Goodness gracious Kate, one of your devotees actually requested permission to address me. You are very powerful. Why do I post here? I oppose Kate's world view, that's why. Is this rocket science to you graduates of SDA High?

You agree with Kate's POV, I don't. Pretty simple."

Posted by: Johnny Maudlin at May 2, 2008 12:08 AM

Johnny;

I agree with Kate's pov, and further, I can not understand how you can justify this kind of ritual. I suppose you are also behind the ritual of female genital mutiliation, practiced by many
of your heros on the African continent.

Madman

"Leftists do not judge the act, they judge by whom is doing it. They are the supreme bigots. -Friend of the USA"

Ditto the right-wing, especially when the actions come from those who the right has sympathy for. Come to think of it, there's not much discussion of the bizzare catholic rituals in America, you know, the ones that involve boys. Didn't the Pope just give a speech about that. And of course, it was duly ignored, because those acts don't nearly compare to this one, eh?

I am not a religious man at all,
but seriously to call that a ritual is really absurd.

It is everything but a ritual.

The fact we completely disaprove of those acts compared to you completely defending tossing toddlers from 50 foot building illustrates my point,

when people " on our side" ( white, westerner, catholic, conservative et cetera..) are wrong we do not deny it,
we condemn what they did,

but when people "on your side" ( colored, non-westerner, non-catholic, liberal et cetera...) do something wrong you contort like a pretzel to find some justification.

I can find you hundreds of liberals approving of the most bizarre immoral and illegal things,

But you can not find me one conservative who approves of catholic priests abusing little boys.

nice try.

Madman: whoa there, Trigger! Slow down. That's a leap, isn't it? Bouncing off a sheet and female genital mutilation? I think the former is basically harmless and the later is horrifying barbarianism (if there is such a word...)

Madman: hold on there, Trigger! That's one hell of a leap. I think bouncing a baby off a sheet is basically harmless and female genital mutilation is a horrifying example of tribalism beyond the pale.

Your assertion is simply false, my Pigeon friend; but thanks for playing.

Criticism, however strongly felt, is hardly tantamount to government censorship. I constantly hear hypocritical Libs trying to sell this goofy fallacy.

Today any speech, which merely hurts someone's feelings, is a "hate crime" punishable by the government of Canada.

If that is the sort of fascism you support, then perhaps "progressives" should be renamed "regressives", since y'all want to regress back to the pre-Enlightenment days of the Spanish inquisition.

LOL defensive person said:

Call people names (Bird brain pigeon), accuse them of insanity, intellectual laziness etc.

Learn from the lefty. At the very least, at least she accepts facts, which is a redeeming trait missing in a lot of people here.

Oh I forgot. LDD knows ALL the facts. From here, no doubt.
Posted by: Friend of Pigeons at May 2, 2008 4:35 PM

May be cherry picking here, but the facts are a baby, well many babies are being endangered unnecessarily so, it's obvious it's a CULTURE thing...gheeesh, you people need to take yourselves way less seriously!
But this is just a gem...

"Learn from lefty she at least accepts facts??"
WHO'S FACTS??
Just because so and so said so? So now 'she'/'he' says so and it's fact?
Huh?
Um, can't you say NO to being brainwashed or is that just not acceptable behavior of whatever group you've heaped a bunch of us into?

Or does 'she'-leftie, at least check facts before accepting them as facts?
Did I call you a name?

Jolly good, then.

"when people " on our side" ( white, westerner, catholic, conservative et cetera..) are wrong we do not deny it, we condemn what they did,"

Really? Lets not restrict ourselves to the Catholic case - that was just thrown in there because it was in the news recently but did not register on this site (AT ALL).

Where is the SDA post about circumcision and the trauma it can cause to male children? What do you have to say about it?

What about the blatant rac-ism on this board. Bet it doesn't exist in your eyes. Have you condemned it? Condemning "celibate" priests who engage in sod omy is hardly something to pat yourself on the back about. Can you bring yourself around to condemning those who work tirelessly to demonize others? Like SDA, which looks for anything and everything to denigrate Islam?

"but when people "on your side" ( colored, non-westerner, non-catholic, liberal et cetera...) do something wrong you contort like a pretzel to find some justification."

Yes. The Justification is simple. Let them do it if they think its appropriate, and it doesn't affect us in anyway. Its called freedom. Freedom to do what you want so long as it has no bearing on us. If you can turn away from circumcizing young children, why do all your compatriots here feel the need to judge this admittedly bizzare ritual?

Which brings us to the question: what is the point of this thread? Here I will answer it simply - to denigrate Islam.

"I can find you hundreds of liberals approving of the most bizarre immoral and illegal things,"

I can find you hundreds of conservatives who think discrimination on the basis of race/gender/sexual orientation is okay. Or who think Pinochet is above criticism. But that is neither immoral nor illegal, right?

"But you can not find me one conservative who approves of catholic priests abusing little boys."

Yes I can. All the merry numbers who defend the sanctity of the Catholic church even after it goes and does absurd things like this. I am pretty sure I can find you a mullah in Saudi, or indeed, India, who condemns this particular "Muslim" practice.

But that is not the point is it?

Rhetorical posturing is all fine and dandy, but don't expect bold-sounding mundane questions to make you look smart.

" the facts are a baby, well many babies are being endangered unnecessarily so, it's obvious it's a CULTURE thing"

Yes I agree, babies are being endangered. Just like the babies who are circumcized. And the ones who are dunked in water. Where is your judgement about the cultures that carry out those?

In all likelihood this is practiced by a small region based minority. But it is held up as proof of your cultural superiority over whoever is practicing this. It is not even clear who is practicing this. On this evidence, you would think everyone in India was tossing their child off roofs. The population growth rate tells us otherwise.

""Learn from lefty she at least accepts facts??"
WHO'S FACTS??
Just because so and so said so? So now 'she'/'he' says so and it's fact?"

"When confronted with facts and reason that she can't refute her only response is,"yeah,I guess you are right","

I think the "who", would be you? Or does someone else have to confront her with facts in your presence?

"Did I call you a name?"

Yes, you did. I am friend of Pigeons. Not Bird brain pigeon. Shame on you.

Freedom Fan: you are playing games with the truth. You made this assertion; "...Today any speech, which merely hurts someone's feelings, is a "hate crime" punishable by the government of Canada...." No, it's not. Yet you make the statement as if it's so...

Friend of Pidgeon, you'll find neither reasoned debate or a balance of perspectives at this site. You'll find plenty of belligerence and name calling. And if you don't like it, you'll be reminded frequently, bugger off.

As for me, unless banned, I am going nowhere. My presence here is an irritant. And this place needs lots of that. This place could use a full on enema. Now watch, Friend of Pidgeon, the kiddies come out and have a go at that one ;-)

Can you bring yourself around to condemning those who work tirelessly to demonize others? Like SDA, which looks for anything and everything to denigrate Islam? -Friend of Pigeons

Islam needs to be relentlessly ridiculed so it will reform or be discarded as a belief system, because Islam is a threat to vital Western values such as freedom.

Because Islam is anti-West it is embraced by Leftists who find a common enemy.

Through ignorance or design, the Left tries to sell the idea that attacking Islam is somehow tantamount to 'racism'. That is simply false; Islam is just about everything except a race. Unfortunately people of all races practice Islam. Islam is a religious cult, an oppressive political system and a way of life which dictates every mundane aspect of daily existence down to which way to face when taking a dump on sir john.

Similarly, Christianity is relentlessly ridiculed by the Left because it supports traditional values which they loathe, yet no one tries to pretend that those who attack Christianity are 'racist'.

The irony is that the success of Islamic shariah in the West would bring the swift demise of much of what the Left cherishes, such as separation of church and state, homosexuality, abortion, feminism, and personal liberties of every sort.

This is happening in Europe through rapid demographic changes, as was shown in Mark Steyn's book, America Alone, for which he is being prosecuted as a criminal by Canada's insane 'human rights' commisars.

The decadent Left is to enlightened civilization as the scorpion who catches a ride across the river on the head of a frog, yet decides to sting it to death. Both the host and rider drown.

Be careful what you wish for, Liberals.

Like SDA, which looks for anything and everything to denigrate Islam?

Islam denigrate itself all the time by what a lot of Muslim say and do, it does not need anyone's help.

we do not have to look for anything, new events happen every day,

When polls reveal a large percentage of Muslims approve of terrorism,

When Muslims walk the streets with signs reading
" behead those who insult Islam"

When Muslims try to use the HRC to punish those who simply repeat an Imam's words and simply expose Islam for what it is,

When Muslims want to give barbaric physical punishment to an English teacher because she let children name a Teddy bear Mohamed

When Muslims force a bank to stop giving away Piggy banks

When Imams are caught preaching in Mosques the beating of women or terrorism

When a hospital or airport in Europe has to remove all food vending machines during ramadan for fear it may trigger violence or even acts of terrorism from Muslims

When Muslims force their wives and daughters to live under a tent

When Muslims kill their daughter in an "honor" bizarre ritual

When Muslims refuse to shake a journalist's hand at a press conference because she is a woman

When Muslims refuse to let Jewish people participate in an anti racism conference at the United nations

When Manchester’s top imam told psychotherapist John Casson that he supported the death penalty for homosexuality.

When the people who made the Mohamed cartoons have to hide because they received death treaths from Muslims

When Muslims destroy millions of dollars of property simply because of cartoons published in a news paper

When 40% of British Muslim want sharia law

When a Brooklyn Imam named Shata doesn’t speak English, refuses to shake women’s hands, wants to forbid music, and supports Hamas and suicide bombing,

When Iqbal Sacranie of the Muslim Council of Britain called for the death of Salman Rushdie,

When after van Gogh’s murder, a Rotterdam artist drew a street mural featuring an angel and the words thou shalt not kill, police, fearing Muslim displeasure, destroyed the mural (and a videotape of its destruction).

When St-George parade in Britain is cancelled for fear of violence from Muslims

(and I could fill pages and pages with similar facts)

when they do all this, they denigrate themselves.

Small Dead Animals and other blogs of that type simply report events, facts about Islam, that is all they do.

No need to add anything or to denigrate, the truth is enough.

You made this assertion; "...Today any speech, which merely hurts someone's feelings, is a "hate crime" punishable by the government of Canada...." No, it's not. -johnny maudlin

Of course it is. Haven't you read section 13 of the CHRA? If you don't want to be called an idiot, then don't act like one.

Madman: hold on there, Trigger! That's one hell of a leap. I think bouncing a baby off a sheet is basically harmless and female genital mutilation is a horrifying example of tribalism beyond the pale.

Posted by: Johnny Maudlin at May 2, 2008 6:58 PM

My name is Madman not Trigger.

You forgot to mention these idiots are dropping a child into a sheet from 15m. Now when I was a fireman we were told that this was a last resort exercise to save a life if there were no other options.

Do they have first aid classes were you live?

Madman

Thank you for proving my point that the raison d'etre of this board is to promote hatred of all things Muslim.

"Small Dead Animals and other blogs of that type simply report events, facts about Islam, that is all they do."

And what do they/you achieve?

An incestous little club of people who all crow louder and louder everytime Kate throws some meat in your direction. The end result - a hatred for all things Islam and Muslim.

And if tommorrow the Muslim world were annihilated, there would be no sympathy for fellow man. No, they were just "Muslims", subhumans who don't deserve sympathy.

You claim to be so superior to them. But take away the rituals, the practices, the myths, the beliefs, and what you have is two groups of human who loathe each other with equal venom.

The beliefs may be different, but at the end of the day, the hatred is the same. You are indistinguishable from the one's you oppose, because you share their despicable view of being the 'superior' ones in an unequal humanity. After all, humans cannot be equal, because then you, and the muslims you hate, would not be superior to the rest. And we can't have that now, can we?

Yes, you did. I am friend of Pigeons. Not Bird brain pigeon. Shame on you.
Posted by: Friend of Pigeon at May 2, 2008 8:23 PM

Show your proof, otherwise you are a liar or unable to discern real facts, as I've already stated above.

The rest of your babble can only be straightened out by a professional at this time and I can't be bothered with you further.

Freedom Fan: you mean the section of the act that states hurting peoples feelings is a hate crime? The act says no such thing. If it does then quote the act, don't offer your own way less than adequate interpretation.

This is an issue of child abuse and the frightened look on that baby's face is disturbing. The group doing it, regardless of whether they are Indian and/or Muslim are backward, superstitious, and may I say without hurting anyone's feelings, retarded.

If the story didn't say it took place in India at a mosque might have caused the rest of us to conclude that we were actually watching a group of Christians practicing some weird religious rite. We all know there are wing-nuts in the fringe Christian sects.

But, then, if they were Christian, there wouldn't be the same uproar from some of the posters here screaming that the rest of us are showing our prejudice against this particular benign cultural-religious group.

None of them have shown any concern for the children, but that would be asking too much I think.

Pigeon Poop: You do know that it is possible to disagree with a philosophy or a religion without actually hating the holders of such a belief system don't you?

And if tommorrow the Muslim world were annihilated, there would be no sympathy for fellow man. No, they were just "Muslims", subhumans who don't deserve sympathy. -Friend of Pigeons

Conservatives care deeply about people with Muslim beliefs, who are the very first victims of Islam; women are at special risk.

You have proly never heard of brave former Muslims like Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Wafa Sultan, who dare to speak out against the hell a woman often suffers living under the thumb of Islam. There is no escape: Under Islam the penalty for rejecting Islam is death.

I also know that as a Lib you must pretend to actually care about people as you feed the pigeons, but you have no intention of actually learning any facts about Islam, much less ever joining people who speak out against this vicious theology and its stated goal of undermining enlightened Western civilization.

I offer this with the full realization that as a Lib, you are proly incapable of comprehending the obvious fact a person's beliefs are not the same as the person's genetic code.

You are indistinguishable from the one's you oppose

Until you can come up with a list of things that makes us indistinguishable from the people who do what I provided in my partial list above, you can keep telling yourself fairy tales it they make you feel good, but you will not convince anyone.

All you have is indignation and accusations, and no substance.

You keep telling us we are wrong, but you can not tell us what is right about them.

For example tell us what is so right and so great and so admirable about keeping your wife living under a tent?

Don't tell me I am a racist knuckle dragger, tell me what is so great and so right and so fantastic about keeping your wife living under a tent.

You can't.

So I expect more accusations and more indignation but not one damn intelligent argument.

Friend of pigeons:

Contrary to your inverted view of reality, SDA isn't here to promote "hatred" against muslims; however, the facts speak for themselves.

You ARE correct in one thing, although you don't understand it: we DO believe our Western culture and standard of living superior to that of the middle east or islamic countries. They do too, apparently, and that's why if you follow the immigration numbers you see a vast exodus from the M-E to the West, and empty boats bobbing hither and yon on the return leg back. Even your snide tone is illuminating; there is no "multiculturalism" in the 3rd world islamic countries that you so wholeheartedly admire: the "culture" is purely monocultural. Wonder why that is, eh? And why the muslims are leaving in droves to come here? So why is it "bigoted" or "hatred" to ask that these people try to assimilate to our culture and, you know, respect a little bit of free speech, or maybe not murder their teenage daughters for embracing a bit of the canuck culture?

But that wouldn't do, would it? Because in your lovely multicultural bubble, all cultures are equal, right?

Except they aren't. Just... follow the immigration numbers.

At any rate, you might google "moral relevance" to try to understand your mental affliction, and a bit of decent psychotherapy might get you back on track. Maybe.

BTW, as for "hatred" of muslims, you'll find many conservatives didn't really think badly of them until they decided to fly a couple of jetliners into some New York landmarks, and celebrate same on a worldwide basis. That was a rather telling moment for many of us.

mhb23re
at gmail d0t calm

It's you and your liberal ilk who insist on

I wouldn't be too concerned with what the left think in this country. They are dead, or dying. Even fools like Johnny and Pidgeon realize that. Look what they have for leaders, dumb Dion and taliban Jack. Seriously does anyone think for a moment either of those two could organize a tupperware party?

"who dare to speak out against the hell a woman often suffers living under the thumb of Islam"

This I think sums it up. This post sought this particular line. And Kate achieved it. Forget for a moment that this is some obscure group in the middle of India, whose ritual practices may have nothing to do with Islam.

In the simplistic mindset that prevails here;

Muslim throw baby. Muslim bad. Muslim bad. Muslim bad.

And inevitably, I become an Islam defender, without having even the slightest regard for that religion. For the very simple reason that religion and human have become intertwined, and trying to protect the sanctity of the latter is intepreted as defending the former.

Stop bunching together all the adherents of Islam, I say. Stop defending Islam, you say.

"Contrary to your inverted view of reality, SDA isn't here to promote "hatred" against muslims; however, the facts speak for themselves."

It isn't? Then why is it so obsessed with Islam? Read the stuff said here. We know this thread isn't about the child. Otherwise circumcision would have been a bigger deal. Or the Mormon teenage sleepfest. Those conveniently slip under the radar, inspite of Kate's apparent love for children.

No this is about sharpening the knive. As always. Another piece of meet. The same voices crow louder and louder. Some kind of bizzare battle-hysteria that best reveals itself in the frustrated name-calling that emerges here.

No this site is not about promoting hatred towards Islam. It just keeps an eye out for any incriminating evidence. An eye that is dedicated solely to Islam, not to any other religion.

"but you have no intention of actually learning any facts about Islam, much less ever joining people who speak out against this vicious theology"

Great change comes from within, not without. Martin Luther was a religious Christian. Not a heretic.

How are you helping? By standing on the sidelines and proclaiming all that is wrong with them? By giving them a reason to unite, the reason being that regardless of the changes they enact, you and your western civilization will see them as subhuman 'muslims', never equals. Because nothing can be equal.

Its much easier sticking to the comfort of what you know than it is challenging an age old order. And that is without taking into account the open hatred people on the outside propagate. You know, the SDAs.

I daresay that the west bashing sites are probably filled with people who parrot your language and have access to an intellectual capacity similar to yours.

"I daresay that the west bashing sites are probably filled with people who parrot your language and have access to an intellectual capacity similar to yours."
Well, there are sites like Ko's whose intellectual capacity is similar to yours. You should visit it, if SDA gets you're panties in such a knot.
Believe me, your kind of mushy thinking falls right in line there.

Johnny girl isn't going anywhere .He likes it here cause he craves attention.He thinks he's an irritant according to him,kinda like a pooping pigeon.

Friend of pigeons,

Ok ok we get it, you think we are bad people,

but you still have not told us one single thing that makes living under an Islamic state (they have no separation of religion and state ) equal to living in a western democracy.

Tell me, inform me, educate me,
what is so equal that I should change my mind?

Go ahead,

tell me what is so equal.

Tell me what makes it equal and if you have solid arguments I will change my mind.

Seriously I will.

I have changed my mind on few things along the years, but never because I was told I was a bad person.

Telling me I am a bad person is no argument.

What is so equal?

No proof eh, fop?
Merit?

Hm?

A person with merit would apologies for their slanderous inaccurate comments.

... yeah.

This site is about when you see or read anything do not jump to conclusion to Muslim are guilty or Islam are guilty for anybody do any crime or wrong doing for you to blame and generalize and judge us so quickly.

I saw in news in newspaper page A16 Friday May 2, 2008 a question asked Mrs. CLinton for fighting her to win presidency of United stated
the reporter asked Mrs. CLinton If Iran want to lunch atomic bomp against Isreal what you do with Iran and Mrs. clinton said "I want the Iranian to know that if i am the president we will attack Iran"

Iran government protest Clinton comment inUN said
"I wish to reitrrate mt government position thai the Islamic republic of Iran has no intention to attack any nation"

WHne I read this news I as a Muslim come to this conclusion:

UN are aware that first country did attack with nuclear weapon to other nation was United stated in example of Japan since United sated did crime they may do it again why UN are not stop all nuclear facility in United stated first. why we are look for unknow future if Iran want to attack Isreal why not look for live exampel the only country attack by Nuclear weapon and kill so many people were AMerican and second was German who sold nuclear and climical weapn to Iraqi Sadam Hossain to kill Iranian in year 1984 more than one million Iranian are died for trade of illlegal from German country selling nuclear and climical weapon to go and kill Iranina for no crime done from Iran or no attack was started from Iran to Iraq in 1982 war in Iran and Iraq therefore we leave criminal out and we look for made innocent look criminal Mrs. CLinton.

Second, I blived all Jewish are innocent and play with international game of world to come to Isreal for heaven only got batred by rich Jewisn in United stated or Russia or other world pay to keep Isreal on by what cost to kill too many Jewish while the first intention of immigrant of Jeiwsh form Christian man Mr, Hitler while I do belve he was not blieve any relgion in sound he said I am chrisitan so as Sadam Hossain said I am Muslim while both in one eyes only were criminal and did worl crime therefor today Isreal are not used to give any benefit or any credit to jewih in world but also make them go and keep piece of land by murdering your neighbour this sound again racist not religion.

may not sound may some fair if Jewish read my opinion but if you think I have small house and I aske some go to my neighbour and get him out of his hous only I plan to expand my house bigger this is sound now Isreal are built their land by take some other land and still bother then and abuse Muslim in Isreal.

the question should asked Mrs. Clinton while she is lawyer and used to practice law before come to this stage in politic how she can reduce the conflcit in fair way in middle east among Isreali and Palastianian since after AMerica attack Japn and still keep their nuclear weapn shile they must stop or world wathc and inspect USA more thant other country in the smae sclale of judgment how Mrs. CLinton can made Isreal safe place for Jewish and Muslim to leave togetehr nd not kill each otehr that is wish even Jeiwh l ike to have is security and safty in world but again if Jewish look for safty and security since Christian Hitler bother them and did crime agaisnt them did not give toole to they do the same crime against Muslim as well.
is like some one say you kill my father I come and kill your all innocent people in revenge if you believ soem one born as Muslim or Jewihs or Christina is not commit any sin to born from mother then you can not without any seen of crime from otehr side you go and even arret the person and even made judment before hand
then in talk in order to mad muslim look less aggresive I believe North american are not familer with correct dialoge or communication with Muslim the way they talk mad Muslim feel frusterad and get angry and again I bleive if you keep made people angry in wrong way with no reason you mad the socity and paly with safty and security of nation by play in wrong using of word to poltically sayI am amercain I must boss even Iran government or vice versa.

Muslim keep get offended by word used in media and this must stop and if you turn socity in more polite and more kind and better communication you will see Muslim are very good people but before any Muslim or any Iranian did drop any weapon to any wear to go and say I want to say I am going to attack IRan this is sound I am fighting you without doing crime I am police I like to arrest any body in street if they look Muslim because I have not prejedice agaisnt Muislim but also I hate muslim all as we see medai talk about us and this communication can turn to the way we are fighting with bad people

again what Canada troop doing in Afagnestan rather to fight them spend moneyt to built their county back Afagainst are poor conury and no source as you can see only source of country is sellin drug like Mexico are poor while in 50 years Mexico did som much growth by change correct direction tot them Afagani are handy hard working men like Chinees people use their energy to work for candain firm in business with low income they dod best job why spend mondy to send tropp while Canada can folow old way not follow USA way to fight terrroist is fight crime if fight povery and fight hate is do built them in correct way.

in finaly word I think chasing criminal for one person did wrong or you think few Muslim did crime and now you chaseing all Muslim country to kill them all or lable them all or hate them all it is like highway traffic that police chase one criminal in long the way kill so many innocent people if you see Iraq and Afagnestan are too many innocent are dieintg since direction are not correct direction of American are not correct since they do go for mrs. CLinton got lots of money form Jewsh AMercian to bring her up lets hate Iranian while you can encourge good to become better person and keep bad not go worst if you know some countyr had potential to do more crime if they saw any oppoutunity by tlak or motive them more you made bad to act worst this is not correct politic to say it

plus Islam and Muslim are misunderstood by west because the way they talk to Muslim are really offensive and not know Muslim and how to talk to them you can motive to sepearte them from each otehr and this is not good for safty and secuty in any country. finally Mrs.Clitin the crimina may stay in your country do not put flame up for some one outside of United stated the behave we saw in AMerican are not fair toward Muslim therefore we think Ameriaca first start fix Mulim in America before come and teach Muslim in Canada or world what to do and what her wishes is. we saw enoguh hate toward us you better go and watch you law book before you talk.

Great change comes from within, not without. Martin Luther was a religious Christian. Not a heretic. How are you helping? By standing on the sidelines and proclaiming all that is wrong with them? By giving them a reason to unite, the reason being that regardless of the changes they enact, you and your western civilization will see them as subhuman 'muslims', never equals. Because nothing can be equal. -Friend of Pigeons

Muslims have had 1600 years to change Islam. They haven't. They have the same whacked beliefs as always and they want to change ours.

They are succeeding as evidenced by the actions of the Canadian 'Human Rights' Commission, and elsewhere. You quisling Leftists are their willingly ignorant cheerleaders and that's why we are so angry.

In the case of this particular post, you are so blinded by your perverse religion of multi-culturism that you defend the absurd ritual of endangering infants by dropping them, then you fault us as 'haters'. Think about that for a while...

You are selling out Western culture because you don't believe it is anything special. You won't understand how wonderful freedom is until it's gone but that will be too late.

The Muslim religion is not the same as your religion; it does not deserve any respect. This was difficult for me to accept as well until about four years ago. But I wanted to find out who was right. The more I found out about Islam the more deeply disturbing it is.

This is not about hating anyone. Our mission is about preserving freedom for ourselves and our children. Political Islam is a dire threat to our freedom. There are now more Muslims than Catholics, and the demographics show that this is just the beginning.

Rather than engage in your reflective rejection of everything we say and your knee-jerk tendancy to demonize Conservatives as simple-minded bigots, suppose ... just suppose this one time you muster the intellectual curiosity to determine the truth for yourself. Try these sites:

Faith Freedom - A Muslim Apostate tries to Convert Muslims
Prophet of Doom - The Truth about Islam in Mohammad's Own Words
Ask the Imam - Fatwa 7676, Punishment for Apostasy
The Religion of Peace - 11,022 deadly terrorist attacks since 9/11

respond to "freind of USA:"

you said awful thing about Muslim and Islam

again we have 1.5 billion Muslim if you see anybody committ crime because born Muslim are not give her or him the way for you to blame thier religion such as you said a man kill his daughter for not doing certain thing again in Islam are not give free ticket if not body are not follow Islam you go and do the justice and kill him again this is interpretation in media

this site only pick say " another Muslim woman.. again" and start to say any topic related to their religion Islam are not responsilbe for each individaul to defend them if any body born as Muslim but commite crime do not confuse two subject together if Muslim or jewih or christian or Hido do crime minor or major mus tget punish them by law

since we live in Canada not in USA we must follow canadain rules if we want to change rules again this is up to member of parlement

I remembered 24 years ago a woman in Vancover if I am not mistake took his top dress out and change law in Canada than woman are free to walk in sreat with top off and they are allow to show their breast

while Muslim in opposition are not like to even shake hand with their woman
we can say if you think freedom to show it all Muslim are say we are not show it again you can not get mad of Muslim and again this choice woamn say do not even touch me shake hand means you touch body and part of woamn body which is hand and Muslim are not like men who are not father or husband or brotehr or uncle can shake hand with woamn nto the other far or non related relative can nto shake hand with Muslim woman

again freedom christian woamn like to sleep with too many men and Muslim woman like to marry only one man and if they have right o divorce must stay 3 month in seperation to marry again while in Canada alw you must stay one year to divorce therefore shari law means Muslim able to do certain law again this is back to member of parlement to review some law of Islam are not against today law in Canada but are different.
again Canadian goverment has right to enforce thire law unless law maker agree with some of right of Muslim law accptalb by them which is peacfull way. do not worry if some one want ot ask some right for their diffetn religion
like Muslim eact Halal food and Jewihs eat Kosher food and christian eat pork wich is ban by Jewish and Muslim law in any food and Islam are ban drinking alcohole while Jewish and Christian are drinking acohole this is our right to ask some law for them to demand it this law are not hurting any oppostion with them.

Muslim men forced their family live in tent this is not Islam I have no idea where you get idea of Islam is only media and Medai teach you what is Islam is not Isalm tell you or other American that is the law of them is.

but in reality you can not expect to porn star movie actress to like Muslim woman who are majority of them are innocent to like them while these two group are seprated from each otehr

or bar alcohole stors owenrs like Muslim who not like to drink alcohole and belivme Muslim alcohodl change you and cause as you can see do not drink and drive we Muslim say do not drink at all this is affect your brain and no benefit usign achole only the busiensee people or advertisemnt liekt o belive you must drink as you can see no smoke we say No drink too
we Muslim are not like pork while Pork is regular food for christian we belive pork meat can use for animal pets maybe not for human usage again we both are differene made us argue therefore we even has similrity with jewish and more differences with christian in what we eat

again do not read CNN and show muslim country are evils but you must know the law before travel to Muslim country if you do not want to get arrested I bleive the same if Muslim like nto get arrested they must respect Canadain law until they gain some right by using their member of parment otehrwise we can not vilote any law in any country I bleive this .if you respect law and if you respect Muslim for teir woman are not like tos shake hand or touch by otehr men hten we respect you your woman are walk in down town top naked and sleep with too many men before marriage and watch any movies in the same respect but if you want to force Muslim woman to act like Christian woman again you make them agnry never mess with Muslim woman this is my advice to you.

Hassan, Thank you for your comments. I have some questions for you which I hope you have the courage to answer directly:

1) Do you believe that Israel has the right to exist?

2) What is the punishment for a Muslim who renounces Islam?

3) Do you believe it is a moral act when a suicide bomber murders unsuspecting innocent women and children for any reason?

4) Do you believe Sunnis and Shi’ites are equal in Allah’s eyes?

5) Do you believe it is right that Christian churches and Jewish synagogues are forbidden in most Muslim countries such a Saudi Arabia?

6) What is the punishment for a Muslim woman who is found guilty of infidelity under Islamic law? Isn’t it public stoning?

7) Are both men and women treated equally in a court of Sharia law? Doesn’t the testimony of one man count for that of three women according to Sharia? How does a woman prove that she was raped? Doesn’t the crime of rape have to be observed by a man in order to be confirmed?

8) In the Quran, isn’t slavery hallal?

9) Is it hallal for a husband to beat his wife with a small stick according to the Quran?

10) How old was Aisha when Mohammad married her? Wasn’t she six years old?

11) Should a magazine be allowed to publish a cartoon or article if it is offensive to Muslims? Do you believe the death fatwa on author Salmon Rushdie is justified?

Hassan,

a few things,

- I think you are courageous ( I mean this in a good way ) for coming here, and I thank you for keeping this conversation as polite as most of us are trying to keep it.

- I did not say awful things, I only repeated what is available from news sources such as television, newspaper and the internet.

The facts may be awful, but mentioning them is not awful, it is simply telling the truth.

I did not use any offending words, I did not throw one insult, I am polite, calm and respectful, I am only mentioning known facts available in news sources.

It is no worse than saying the USA has a higher murder rate than Canada, that does not make me an awful person , it does not make me an anti-American, and it does not mean I think every American is a murderer, it is simply stating facts.

I do not think all Muslims are alike, but quite enough of them are doing strange and scary things that many of us are worried about it.
This is Canada, I have the right to mention such facts.

- I have seen with my own eyes here in quebec near Montreal Muslim women covered completely except for a thin slit for their eyes, but the husbands were in jeans, t-shirt and baseball caps.
I think this is extremely unfair to the women.
I did not get this from CNN or FoxNews, I saw it with my own two eyes here where I live.

I know not every Muslim lives that way but I know many Imams want every Muslim to live that way.

And I know as more Muslims immigrate to Canada, I will see these covered women more and more.

People who want to live in Canada should integrate and adapt to their new country and not impose their way of doing things on us.

If I were to go live in some Muslim country I would not demand everyone adapt to my western ways, I would adapt to them.

thank you.

hi
I think you can find some answer to your question if you go to http://www.al-islam.org/
I can say my answer to your question but my answer is not necessary you can count as all may be correct too. this is up to you find correct asnwer from good up to date Muslim who are specialist in world politic I saw your question is more politic to start than Islam question but I can say my opinin you are free to do more research if you like to know answre to each quetion you must reasrch more

1) Do you believe that Israel has the right to exist?
with no offense I want to tell you an example

if you wake up one day and you notic after live more than 20 years with your parents you born basterd wich means your father and Mother are not leglaly or commen law are married you feel down as most people may do or already are in this situation. If your parents did commit sin as religion think you must marry and let children born in correct way to born legal child now after the fact is clear to you and all your farid may make you shame but we can not blame of the boy born basterd to now you must pay any price for it

I bleive in the same respect with no offense sorry for Jewish peopple if they may not like my opinion most of htem Jewish are not agree how they built Isreal is legally and morrelly right but now if we can give us right to go and kill Jewish in Isreal I would say No . Now after all wrong and interfer of AMericana nd world Jewish udner pressure of Hitler they made some thing again they can not give them right to continue abuse and kill Muslim too

I bleive we must think of name of country Isreal and Palstinaia first let people in that region who live there made this comment not me wheter or not people like to keep the name of Isral or Palatina or made new name for all people to live there next let people made goverment of them to built such as in IRaq themajoriy are Shia but goverment higest end is soni let people vot who can mad peace in that region do not count America came to help them have peace since if american was smart enough they built taht region under peace while they can not or if you let Jeiwhs outsie of Isral with their money to pay them to kill this is wrong again land verses blood come on ground what is worth what is not worth it plus poeple who bleive god and Allah and Moses is prophet of god can live more in peace in their cementray if they know the blood of poeple who love god nothing else not gos and wasted for racist and power and money any more

I have not count country and region as base of nationalisim that Now I am Isreali let botgher neightr again land or country think it this way if some one offer some nice house in Canada we have so many land empty in Canada are not used transfer all jeiwhs in Canada and give them some aread to live what do you prefer to give you land to die and land to live I think keep the land and dieing every day in street I feel so so sorry for Jewish and Muslim who are innocent to pay that price while people can live any place in world with less violence do not let politc and nationalist made your blood thick and give you weapn to kill this is wrong way to look are survival again thiis is my opion.

2) What is the punishment for a Muslim who renounces Islam?

Islam is last religion ordered by god not by human being sometimes god order is tough but that is god order.
Islam is perfect relgion if you study it if christian and Jewish are drinking Prophet Moheamd ban it for sake of security and safty again people who become Muslim never change their regligon to become christian and if they do just because they are not understand it well you can not say very similar law in islam and Jeiwish and CHristiantgy that you only see some changes in Islam to made god order prefect that is Islam is last relgion to perfect Moses order and Jesis's order not to one can change others simply if you know the best do you change yourself from best to good or wrost the answer is NO if you encourgae peopel who accept teh best to change to worst then you encourge them in wrong direction

I must go and answer to your other quetion later since it is too long to answer to each question I have no time today I will answr later again you can not count on me to get your real answer
I try to anwer to otehr question later.

Hassan,

For the sake of brevity please allow me to paraphrase your answers for our Liberal friends:

1) Do you believe that Israel has the right to exist? NO

2) What is the punishment for a Muslim who renounces Islam? DEATH

3-11 NO COMMENT

Thanks. Please come back and visit anytime, I know Kate enjoys all viewpoints in a debate.

Fine, freedom fan, lets play.

"but you still have not told us one single thing that makes living under an Islamic state (they have no separation of religion and state ) equal to living in a western democracy."

I don't know where that question is coming from, since the video is from India, but there is one thing that is the same in both western and islamic countries. The presence of high-strung, narcissistic, self-praising, chest-thumpers like yourself. Go on. Check it out.

"No proof eh, fop?
Merit?"

The proof, my dear, is right in front of you. Not wanting to see it, does not make it non-existant. Look around on this thread, think a little, and you will find it. Sometimes it is better to not have things spelled out for you, though Kate's spoonfeeding might have deprived you of certain critical analysis skills.

And Freedom Fan,

"Muslims have had 1600 years to change Islam."

Yeah, yeah same old story. They did change. For the worse. After providing reformist thinkers with the Roman and Greek texts that the Church nearly managed to paint out of history - you know, the books that informed western civilization when it sought to come out of "the dark ages". But that is a moot point, just as your stating of age is. Also, the correct age would be 1400. But in light of the reformation (1516-1648) and enlightenment (17th-18th century), what is 200 years, give or take, right? Come to think of it, Christianity took 1500 years to reform.

All of these are, of course, moot points since they don't consider context.

"You quisling Leftists are their willingly ignorant cheerleaders and that's why we are so angry."

Really? I think regardless of whether muslims or leftists existed you would be really angry. It seems to be the only thing driving you. I am sure you would have found some other scapegoat. Your beloved history certainly suggests so. Remember the Jews?

" you defend the absurd ritual of endangering infants by dropping them, then you fault us as 'haters'"

Well, if this thread was about children being endangered, then I would wholeheartedly condemn this move alongside the submersion of Christian infants, and the circumcision of jewish and muslim infants. However, I think we have established that this thread is not about endangering infants. It is about mocking, in this case, Islam. If the person carrying out the procedure knows what he is doing, then this can be no more dangerous than circumcizing a child, could it?

"Western culture because you don't believe it is anything special."

I am not selling out western culture. I am protecting the freedoms of ALL those within it. The difference between you and me, old chap, is that you only want certain freedoms protected - freedoms to do things you approve of. And in doing so you are depriving others of their freedom. Perhaps it is you who should consider what freedom means.

"The Muslim religion is not the same as your religion; it does not deserve any respect."

I don't respect it. But I do afford all muslims the basic respect human beings are entitled to, in the absence of any individual incriminating evidence. I don't see them guilty until proven innocent, a charge that any man with a little knowledge about western civilization will find most absurd. For you, though, I suspect that they are, even if only by association.

"Our mission is about preserving freedom for ourselves and our children."

And how do you propose to do that? By banning muslim immigrants? By assimilating muslims and converting them "out" of their religion. We both know muslims make up a small portion of the western world. Even in England, they account for what, 2 - 3%. In India they are 12%, In China, probably smaller. How are they threatening your freedoms?

"There are now more Muslims than Catholics"

Where? In muslim countries? Okay. Thats their problem. Are you expecting some kind of global invasion of human waves? Because I hate to disappoint you, but even in those countries, muslims are not as fastidiously religious as you want to believe. They have bigger concerns than spreading Islam on a global scale.

Its a wonderful straw man, but the numbers dont add up. Islam has 1.5 bn adherents. Christiantiy has 2 bn. Hinduism has 1 bn. Then theres the allsorts in China, another bn there.

What demographics are you talking about?

Name one coutnry in western civilization where the Muslim population can actually challenge the ruling regime.

"Rather than engage in your reflective rejection of everything we say and your knee-jerk tendancy to demonize Conservatives as simple-minded bigots"

You would know a lot about demonization wouldn't you? After all, you practice it on a daily basis here.

Give it a shot. Prove to me that Islam can actually pose a threat to the freedoms of the west. It is a religion that is not at peace with itself. They are not united, them being Sunnis and Shiias.

And lets stay away from the tired old drivel about the Steyn and the Rights commission. You need those things on occassion to strengthen institutions.

Remember the Jews? -Pigeon Poop

Freedom Fan

"Yes, aren't they the ones who founded Israel, which your buddy hassan here wants to push into the sea?"

Yeah, the ones who were targetted mercilessly by Christians for around 1900 years before a product of western civilization took it one step too far.

You and your kind will always find a minority to hate. First it was Jews, then (depending on where you lived) Catholics/Protestants. Atheists figured briefly. Now its the Muslim's turn. Got to keep occupied, eh?

I suspect you couldn't quite comprehend anything else I posited. Nor do I know who Hassan is. But the langauge of fanatics is as alien to me as the langauge of reason is to you, and ostensibly Hassan (haven't read a word he said). Only dogs can understand other barking dogs, eh.

I suspect you couldn't quite comprehend anything else I posited. -PP

True. You conflated something another poster said with things I said.

You disgustingly assert I am somehow responsible for the Holocaust and the Spanish Inquisition.

You obviously know nothing about Islam and are not about to learn.

You don't know who 'hassan' is although he commented four posts away.

In order to begin to have a debate, there is a requisite minimum level of intelligence, which I'm afraid you don't possess. Please go back to feeding the pigeons.

Yes, I realised that after I posted, I meant to address you directly, but I had pasted those into the box before hand. It was a mistake, not deliberate.

"You disgustingly assert I am somehow responsible for the Holocaust and the Spanish Inquisition."

Not you. People like you. Perhaps you in another age. People who look for somebody else to blame for everything. If the world is a bad place, it is because of muslims. Sound familiar? The people who carried out those two despicable events were, like you, products of western civilization. Hitler, as I recall, was born and bred in Germany, a long-standing part of western civilization. It only goes to show that any civilization can produce nutcases - a cautionary tale of sorts.

"You obviously know nothing about Islam and are not about to learn."

Why should I? I don't intend to practice it. And I don't want to become one of those people who learn about something with the sole aim of attacking it. You say you know a lot about Islam. I daresay you only know what you want to know. All the quotes about how muslims should treat infidels. And probably nothing more. People who go in with your view only see what they want to, in the light that they want to see it. 1.5 bn adherents suggests there might be something morally appealling about it. Perhaps you might want to show your mastery of these "good" parts. Bet you can't though, because if its in the Koran, it must be bad. Prove me wrong.

"You don't know who 'hassan' is although he commented four posts away."

I don't have time to scrutinize his and Friend of USA's duel. It has no bearing on what I am saying. He is a defender of Islam. I am not. I am, however, a defender of basic human dignities for all, regardless of their religion.

Friend of, as always, Pigeons :

Friend of pigeons you say a lot of things amid many accusations.
No facts though. Just warm bubbles of modern multicasts thinking emoting from you in self righteous burps of Values clarification. Believing the human race all just wants to love each other. It plain you never read any history, or have lived in a convent your whole life.
I just have a few facts.

1. 9/11

2. Female circumcision.

3. All non- Muslims are under dhimitude in ALL their Nations, & subject to a tax to be left alive.

4. Women are not equal in law or Religion to men. Rape victims become stoned & not like your crowd.

5. There has been a war on several fronts by Jihadisats. Namely the physical war. But by far there propaganda efforts have focused on our HRc's to back door sharia law. Using our own laws to institute there’s. Useful political idiots as well who don't know there now owned. Quislings.

6. Mohammad raped a 9 year old & did the same on battlefields to Women. Indeed it was a religious duty thus the rape rooms in Syria & Iraq.

7. Islam attacked the West first almost taking Paris, than the Turks Christian pilgrims. They continued these attacks till 1719 when Western medicine & expansion technologically outclassed their fanaticism for a world Caliphate.

8.Communism was & still is a threat, you figure that’s bogus as well?

9. Iranian officials have stated on record many times they will analyze Israel. Syria is an Iranian client State.

10. Fanatic Islamism Iranians really believe the 12th Caliph or Mhadi is about to appear to end the world.

11. What part of blown up trains in Spain & Britain don't you understand? Nor the would be bombing Jihadists here, against parliament & beheading out PM?

Save us all from pseudo-intellectuals!

FOP: A sharp tongue is no indication of a keen mind.

Freedom fan

I took your advise and read what he has to say. Was fairly tough to decipher.

This I found amusing.

"2) What is the punishment for a Muslim who renounces Islam? DEATH"

Christianity (Justinian) put forth a death sentence for apostasy long before Islam was created. And given that Muhammad was heavily influenced by christianity and Islam, well, I would go so far as to suggest that he may have learnt this particular gem from Christianity. Byzantine was not far from where he lived.

"1) Do you believe that Israel has the right to exist? NO"

Titanic observation. A lot of people from a lot of faiths would give you that answer. I beleive Israel has a right to exist, so I won't presume to speak for them, but I should note that you deliberately ignored something he said, which probably doesn't conform with your views.

"I feel so so sorry for Jewish and Muslim who are innocent to pay that price while people can live any place in world with less violence do not let politc and nationalist made your blood thick and give you weapn to kill this is wrong way to look are survival again thiis is my opion."

Sounds like he is against violence. But the short answer deliberately ignores that. Pretty damn strange, given your views about Islam, eh?

Where is that intelligence you chided me about?

Gah. I am not going to defend Islam. I don't know why that is so baffling to people like Revnant dream.

" Believing the human race all just wants to love each other."

My bad. I guess the human race just wants to hate each other. You being evidence in this regard.

"other. It plain you never read any history, or have lived in a convent your whole life."

I did go to Catholic school :D.

But lets put things in perspective. You argue that Islam is bad for doing all those things. In a similar vein I will put forth similar issues from Western Civilization

1. 9/11

World War I/ World War II. Your point?

2. Female circumcision.

Male circumcision.

3. All non- Muslims are under dhimitude in ALL their Nations, & subject to a tax to be left alive.

Yeah, used to be the same in western civilization till Christianity was forcefully removed from politics. No direct tax. But no equal rights. Corpus Juris Civilis, and all that jazz.</