My comment is likely to cause future hurt feelings.

I recall how prosperous and advanced that same country was when it was called Rhodesia and Ian Smith was Prime Minister. Of course the leftists demanded Smith's white rule be terminated. The socialist/communist crowd eventually got their way and this is the result. I feel for the white farmers who were brutalized and had their farms confiscated but haven't much sympathy for Zimbabwe or the people. It's odd how silent the usual vociferous leftists have become on this topic.

The beginning of the end, I reckon.

Boob Rae says it's all, uh, uh, uh, mumble, mumble......!
Chretien says, dat dere dooby dooby boo boo not are all mines busyness.

Isn't it fun when people behave exactly like that which they say they are against?

Mugabe's rants against 'colonialism' and the British control of the land are obscuring that he has recolonized Rhodesia. He's changed the name to Zimbabwe; he's taken all the land from one 'tribe' (the white farmers) and given it to his own tribe (his warriors). His tribe, however, haven't a clue what to do with the land; they aren't farmers. Result?

The mass of the population are without sustenance and economic or political power. In Smith's time, the mass of the population had sustenance and no power. Now, they have neither. Nothing is produced by that land. There's no democracy to change the situation, for Mugabe is the new colonial ruler, but one who has moved into vicious repression of his own people.

So, what's new about utopia?

This sounds like a job for the three Black Amigos to go and straighten things out back in the "homeland".

That would be ...

the Reverend Jeremiah Wright
the Reverend Jesse Jackson
the Reverend Al Sharpton

We all know how much they hate anyone who persecutes Afro centric people, or do they just mean African American people?

So where is the U.N. on this?

Hugo Chavez is watching this and thinking, Hmmm?

If Mugabe is left standing after this, and the world does nothing about it, then what will Uncle Hugo do in the next election?

The UN is readying its finest weapon: Behold, Uncle Jimmeh!

Now that we see what happens post-colonialism, we know that colonialism was better for human rights... who can disagree? Just look at what happens in many former colonies...

Oh, and I noticed from the news recently that Chinese soldiers are in Zimbabwe... what's up with that??? Does the Axis of Evil wish to colonize such nations for themselves?

You can educate in a generation or less, civilizing can take centuries.

Gee, is this a surprise to anyone?

Um yeah, its a surprise to lots of LEFTIES, all of whom have a hard time seeing anything wrong with Mugabe's policies up to now.

No doubt its a surprise to whatever bunch of Liberal Party b@sta@rds who crafted that bill Mike Brock was talking about yesterday. Health inspectors able to cross private property without a warrant? Gee, what might that lead to?

www.mikebrockonline.com/blog/2008/04/i-withdraw-my-support-from-the.html#comments

China's interest in Africa is not Africans, but rather resources.

Does that explain the presence of Chinese soldiers?

Good point John V. I hadn't even heard about that.

Everybody all set for the next Chinese Empire? This is really going to suck.

John V., you're correct; part of the SinoCommies' interest in Zimbabwe concerns resources. Same as with their presence/interference in other African nations, their stated aims wrt Taiwan, etc... but it's also an imperialist thing... they're basically like latter day Nazis/Imperial Japanese which we saw in the first half of the previous century...

No, there isn't going to be any 'Chinese Empire'. The world doesn't operate that way anymore.

After all, Canada, for instance, has mining industries in, for example, Peru.

I quote: "And mining companies are getting bold: a Canadian company is proposing to "relocate" massive glaciers in the Andean Mountains in order to get to the gold underneath. The problem is that the glaciers are an immensely important source of fresh water for the ecosystem, and removing them would lead to unimaginable disruption of the ecosystem." (A. Hearn, Alternet, June 2005).

Our interests in Central America doesn't mean a Canadian Empire.

The world is networked and we'll have to acknowledge that the new industrial countries, such as China and India, want to get those resources previously dealt with by the West.

Someone asked 'Where's the UN'? Answer: Where it always is. In New York, counting up the fiscal returns from its many corrupt scams, setting out the many bonuses and benefits for its appointed 'dignitaries'. You don't expect the UN to actually DO anything other than focus on those personal benefits, do you?

If the UN were anything BUT a corrupt and useless gang of cleptocrats this would be exactly the time to pony up a strike force and take charge of Zimbabwe!

Unfortunately .........

Hey its all about the money folks.

Just goes to show you that tyranny is not race specific.

If one is mean spirited enough anything is possible.

I thought Monty Python did a skit about this with Charles Paisley the "Baby Crusher" in a send up on gang violence.

Cheers

Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht BGS, PDP, CFP

Commander in Chief

Frankenstein Battalion

2nd Squadron: Ulanen-(Lancers) Regiment Großherzog Friedrich von Baden(Rheinisches) Nr.7(Saarbrucken)

Knecht Rupprecht Division

Hans Corps

1st Saint Nicolaas Army

Army Group “True North”

Why isnt JESSIE JACKASSON,AL SHARPTON out there denouncing mugabee why arnt the UN HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISION denouncing mugabee HEY MEALY MOUTHED LIBERALS WHY ARE YOU NOT DENOUNCING MUGABEE?

ET, I direct your attention to the interesting developments in the mining business in Ecuador. Look up Aurellian Resources.

Its amazing what happens to property when a government official sticks a gun in your face. Chicom empire? For sure.

ET,

You would like to believe that there is not long a nation interested in empire building, but I think you are wrong. The Chinese don't think the way you do. That puts you in the identity trap. You think that because you have progressed in your understanding how things should work at this time in history that others will see as you do. That is the Identity trap.

There are indeed others on this planet that have not progressed in their thinking beyond the seventh century and you know who I am talking about ... jihad comes to mind.

The Chinese are as ruthless and a people can be and they indent to get their jelly donut as we have had for so long. They will populate Africa with soldiers not to fight anyone, but to let everyone know that they are staking a claim. The assay offices in Africa are not as developed as they are in they Yukon therefore soldiers lend a bit of cred to the claims.

I think that ET means that China doesn't want to colonize Africa as Chinese, but at the same time, China will certainly do what it can to advance its evil, selfish interests there and everywhere.

It's not necessary to colonize in the name of the "motherland" in order to, de-facto, exploit other lands for its agenda.

I believe that Russia has done similar in the Middle East, radicalizing the Muslim population over decades, pretty much inventing terrorism and the concept of "Palestine" (Arafat was actually there, pushing the Big Lie on behalf of the KGB, who wanted to get rid of Israel, a US ally, as she's inconvenient to the Russian agenda in the MidEast, which, I suspect, has to do with oil, mostly).

Hope that doesn't deviate from the topic... but it does pertain to Zimbabwe, and does provide food for expansion of thought/perspective on that country and its dictator.

The chicoms have intrests in our resources and technology right here in Canada.
What they cannot get by legitamate channels they will try to steal.

By the way, I found this at National Newswatch, connecting Mugabe to the Chinese militarily:

Arms ship exposes Robert Mugabe’s link to Chinese firm

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article3822568.ece

Indicative of China's aims in Africa. They're deadly, to say the least...

Need any more proof of the corruptness of the UN?
They should be acting pronto to deal with this situation, it's past being an emergency, it's a crisis of life and death proportions.

If Mugs isn't reigned in, expect more of the same from the dregs of humanity elsewhere.

Question, is anyone worried about the HOLD China is crazy gluing onto the World?
Long past time we get our priorities right, money can't trump human rights and everything else after that.

No, canadian sentinel. I don't consider China as 'evil and selfish'. They aren't much different from any other peoples on this planet.

Further,

The USA has military installations in many countries that it derives resources from. Not to fight, but to lend cred to their claim. For example there is a base in Saudi Arabia. They are in Guam, Korea, Canada, Europe and others. They are not imperialist, but they are serious about their claims to trade and resource extraction. China is doing the same in Africa.

I don't believe they want to populate Africa anymore than African Americans want to return to that beloved homeland. They are populating most of the more civilized western world through immigration and just good old sneaking in.

I think their interest in Africa is for access to a wonderful place to grow food for China and there are many minerals to extract as well. Propping up nasty dictators to get the deals they want is not a new trick for countries with a bit of military might now is it?

Before the scum bags took over Zimbabwe with the help of the racist Leftists in the western world cheering them on, Ian Smith was producing enough food in (Rhodesia/Zimbabwe) to feed half of Africa.

Perhaps if the black Africans who were handed the former white man's farmlands had had a bit of integrity, gumption, training, balls, brains, energy, will, desire, entrepreneurial spirit, character, self-reliance ... they might have continued producing food for themselves. In other words if they had more like the white families they tossed out they would have been more successful. Is that racist or fact?

I ask this question over and over. Name one country that is owned and governed exclusively by black people that is prosperous and desirable to live in.

Vote for Obama? Not a good idea.

Well, John V, I'm sorry to upset your theorem but your attempt link skin colour to prosperity simply has no validity. I certainly agree with you in rejecting Obama but it's got nothing to do with his skin colour; it has to do with what's in his mind.

Prosperity isn't connected to skin colour; it's connected to the environment. You see, the parts of our earth where black-skinned people were living were not amenable to supporting large populations. Near-deserts, rain forests and grasslands with seasonal rains don't support large populations. Oh, and in most of Africa, there are no animals to domesticate. In other parts, you can't grow high yield crops (such as wheat..in the rain forests).

So, for the centuries the people were living in Africa, they kept a stable, no-growth population base. Their societies were, as they existed, prosperous and desirable to live in. Their sustenance was horticulture, pastoral nomadism, swidden agriculture.

In Europe, it's a different story. The envt is extremely rich: thick deep soil, regular rainfall, mild climates. Animals and plants to domesticate. Perfect for increasing the population. It took the peoples of the west centuries (got that? centuries) to develop the technology to support large populations. They had to go through famines, wars, plagues..until they could do so. Many times, the societies were indeed not prosperous and most undesirable to live in.

Heck, we even have that type of society in modern times: think of Stalinist Russia; hardly a choice spa for anyone.

So, sorry to disappoint your bias, but it's got nothing to do with skin colour; check out the environment first.

"No, canadian sentinel. I don't consider China as 'evil and selfish'. They aren't much different from any other peoples on this planet.

Posted by: ET at April 27, 2008 6:57 PM "

So ET. What is your plan to change this? I am not evil and selfish.I work for what I need,and those who don't, well f%&k them. You disagree? And if my neighbor falls on hard times throguh no fault of his/her own, I will help them. So that's selfish? No. Socialists are selfish!

just thinkin - what the heck are you talking about? Change what?

An observation.

Seems that Mugabe’s idol is another socialist from the 1930’s, looking at the mustache, looks like one from that era.

This is another reason to stop funding the UN. Mugabe is the chairman for the committee that looks after 'sustainable development'. I suppose that Chavez was the UN's second choice.

Mugabe is living proof that decolonisation (whatever that means) in Africa will inevitably produce worse living conditions for the people. Rhodesia (and I refuse to call it Zimbabwe) was once the breadbasket of Southern Africa due to the industriousness of white Rhodesians. Under Mugabe and his tribal thugs, it's turned into a basket case with inflation that makes the Weimar Republic look like a tea party. The only remaining sane country in sub-saharan Africa is heading down the same path to destruction thanks to the ANC, who have done everything to support Mugabe's oppression of his own people. Heck, Mugabe made life more difficult for blacks than Ian Smith ever did. Call it anyway you want, the average citizen, black or white, was waaay better off when the country was called Rhodesia and was governed along the Westminster Parliamentary system. The retards who took over when Smith capitulated are perfect examples of Africa's perennial sickness: unenlightened, dictatorial and incompetent "tribal" rule, repeated all over non-arab Africa, of so-called revolutionaries who have a lot of difficulty parsing "Jack and Jill", let along running a country.

The UN's saving grace is that the United States of America has a rule that a President can only hold two terms. Where it not for that, and with the blessing of the Congress, the UN would be out of New York and head-officed in some backwood African country where the likes of Mugabee, Chavez, Castro, Amadinnerjacket, Kim Jong (I'm not ill) Ill, Hassad and yes, even the A-hole Putin - could take up thier greivances with the Human Rights body headed up by some asshole from Lybia.

Remember the song "The whole world is going crazy !!! crazy - crazy crazy crazy craaaaaazy - come on baby - won't you go crazy with me e-e-e-e-e. The last thing we need to be about all of this is _CHAMBERLINESK about this situation.

"So, sorry to disappoint your bias, but it's got nothing to do with skin colour; check out the environment first."

ET,

My point on Obama is that it is his skin color that is responsible for what apparently is in his head. His Reverend Wright has explained it. If Obama was white he wouldn't be representing the phony claim of the present day persecution of "his people" as does Jesse, Al and all the others who are convince they only just got released from the cotton fields yesterday are doing ad nauseum.

Further ... explain my question about why there is no 'black' country that has their shit together. Skin color aside, what's with the Negro that they are so unable to prosper and form a cohesive society?

I am discussing that race and it's traits. I trust you don't think that is racist. I have no grudge against black people other than those who I named who are manifesting gross racism against the white race. I would am equally intolerant of any person regardless of color who hate my culture and want to inflict socialism on me.

I used wonder what was with the Spanish colonials in central and South America with all the difficulties they have getting a livable society together. Some of them appear to be making progress now. Those are the ones who have embraced capitalism and democracy such as Chile, Brazil (Portuguese) and Costa Rica is doing better as well. Columbia is making an effort and so on.

I see little hope in any of the countries of Africa, and toss in Haiti as well.

An after thought ... look at the black ghettos in the USA. Those communities are completely unfriendly to whites. They are crime ridden and in shambles. When a black person like, say, Reverend Wright decides to build a million dollar retirement mansion, he goes directly to a white neighborhood.

Explain.

ET at 12.34 "The mass of the population are without sustenance and economic or political power. In Smith's time, the mass of the population had sustenance and no power." - But let's not confuse the absence of meaningful voting with the absence of power. There was the power of international public opinion that the "colonialists" paid at least some heed to. Now, the new colonialist doesn't even pay attention to that.

And let us not forget our part in this sad affair.
Wait for election results before punishing Zimbabwe: ChretienCanada's PM says he prefers to wait for election results before any decision is made to suspend Zimbabwe from Commonwealth.
www.cbc.ca/world/story/2002/03/02/commonwealth020302.html - 31k -

Regarding the comments on China in Africa. They have been there for decades, helping socialist states build railroads and other infrastructure. They continue to look for legal and illegal access to more natural resources. In one country I know of, their ships come to the shoreline at night and load illegally harvested timber. But should we expect anything different. ET says, they are just people wanting to get ahead, and that is true, but the rules of their culture are different than the rules of our culture. What we may see as being illegal or immoral, they count as a normal part of doing business and trading. And when they have millions of surplus young males and a desire to advance materially we must be wary of how they decide to do it.

"Great Moments in Socialism"?

I realize I'm wasting my time writing to a group of red-baiters -- Joseph McCarthy probably contributes to this blog from the grave.

People, please Robert Mugabe has as much to do with socialism as did Joseph Stalin. Mugabe is a dictator. Stalin was a murderous totalitarian. Democratic Socialism has nothing to do with these guys.

Yes, of course, as soon as the word socialism is used your minds slam shut and all you can see is a hammer and sickle.

Ok, move along folks; you can get back to railing against those who would "want to inflict socialism on me."

Forget I posted.

Gerry, please post again. Thoughtful posts from the opposition are welcome here. My rebuttal to you is that we aren't talking about "Democratic Socialism" (whatever you mean by that) but plain old socialism. Mugabe has used that language since being a Marxist rebel decades ago and still does. That is what attracted your fellow travelers to his cause all this time. But it always ends in tears.

ET, of course I was referring to the Chinese Communist regime.

Not to the Chinese People.

Of course you don't think the Communists in China are the same as you and I, eh! ;)

ET is always a big defender of the China communist party on this site. One of the most totalitarian regime on earth.

I wonder why?

Gerry, about the only "socialism" that people around here approve of is the Federated Co-Operatives of Canada and their locally owned and governed chain of grocery and hardware stores and fuel station/depots. I would say that the vast majority of posters from the Prairies would reveal their membership in said organization - starting with our hostess. I would also say that credit unions and "Co-Operators Insurance" (in Alberta at least) are almost as popular among the readership.

The problem for most here lies in left-wing collectivists who moralize and grandstand and say that their leftist ideology makes them more virtuous than other people who are their equal in every other respect. And if leftists apply their "elitist socialism" in government with no respect for their opponents, this blog gives them classical liberal hell right back.

"Explain."

They have people like you to deal with.

"So ET. What is your plan to change this? I am not evil and selfish.I work for what I need,and those who don't, well f%&k them. You disagree? And if my neighbor falls on hard times throguh no fault of his/her own, I will help them. So that's selfish? No. Socialists are selfish!"

Yeah, what are you on about?

Every country follows George Washington's dictum - There are no permanent friends or enemies, only interests. China is pursuing its interests. It would have done so regardless of whether it was run by socialists or not. The American government is propping up more than its share of unsavoury regimes in the Middle East (Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Qatar etc). And the Bush administration is not socialist.

Hawke - if you can follow the logic, consider that socialism is the absence of personal property which is eplaced by shared property and this law is enforced by dictatorial powers of big government run by an enlightened philosopher king(s) who knows what is best for everybody. That seems to be what Mugabe is all about. The white farmers property was taken and shared with everybody supporting Mugabe. Mugabe is the philosopher king who is doing what is best for Zimbabwe. His veterans (who by the way are much to young to have fought in seeking the vote) enforce his view of social justice. He is the philosopher king of a very socialst state. He is also a dictator and a tyrant.

And lets not forget Gerry that Zimbabwean land/wealth distribution, is the cornerstone of socialism. Just like Canada's cash transfer payments to the have-not provinces.

Mugabe - Trudeau ?

No, there isn't going to be any 'Chinese Empire'. The world doesn't operate that way anymore.

So sayeth the academic. And we know how often they've been right.

ET,

"No, there isn't going to be any 'Chinese Empire'. The world doesn't operate that way anymore."

BS. WE don't opperate like that any more. Just because WE don't do something doesn't mean the Chinese or the Muslims or some other group with less scruples won't.

Gerry,

Democratic Socialism is an oxymoron.

Socialism REQUIRES force as it directly contradicts a whole hell of a lot of human nature.

There will NEVER be socialism without a huge pile of corpses. There will never by socialism without tyranny.

I wouldn't waste my time responding ET.

The subtleties are lost on these black and white thinkers. The shades of gray are invisible to them. I agree with you, but its based on a nuanced reading of the world that is influenced by greater access to a variety of sources of information, a privilige apparently unavailable to many of the armchair strategists on this thread.

There is also a very strong tribal association underlying what is going on in Zimbabwe. Present-day Zimbabwe was taken over in the early 1800's by the Ndebele (Matabele), an off-shoot of the Zulu nation. The Ndebele defeated the Shona (the indigenous people), and afterwards treated them as conquered people. Their property and lives were subject to the Ndebele king, and the Ndebele did not treat the Shona well. They were little more than slaves. The Ndebele were wealthy stockmen with vast herds of cattle. They also farmed the rich lands that were later farmed by the white settlers. Their warriors were virtually unbeatable.

It was the Ndebele, under their king, Lobengula, who negotiated the Rudd Concession with Rhodes in 1888. This territorial treaty allowed the British mining and colonisation rights throughout Ndebeleland.
Mugabe is Shona.

The tribal hatred between the Ndebele and the Shona were put on hold during the fight for independence. Mugabe and Joshua Nkomo were tentative allies, but after Mugabe won the 1980 elections, distrust of Nkomo, on the part of Mugabe, resulted in him unleashing his thugs, the North Korean-trained “Fifth Brigade” on the Matabeleland, killing 20,000 Ndebele. This was all done to rid himself of ZAPU, the party led my Nkomo, and create a one-party state. Much of the hatred Mugabe had for Nkomo was predicated on old tribal rivalries.

Nkomo’s ZAPU party was supported by the Ndebele and the whites, while Mugabe’s ZANU-PF had its support from the majority Shona. The parties were split along tribal lines. Much of the white-owned land was in Matabeleland, and when Mugabe began to strip the whites of their property, he gave it to members of his inner circle, Shona.

Morgan Tsvangirai, a Shona, and leader of the MDC, was outspoken regarding Mugabe’s treatment of Nkomo and the Ndebele. Tsvangirai has been beaten and imprisoned, but has continued his fight against Mugabe’s totalitarian regime.