First I've heard of the connection between Lenin's birthday and earth day. In 1970 I was a very active environmentalist and was busy handing out environmental literature in Calgary that day. At that time we were concerned about another ice age starting if something wasn't done about pollution. The changes that have happened since then are huge and, in my opinion, have gone beyond what is reasonable in terms of statist intervention for "environmental" reasons. All of the environmental problems that we were concerned about in 1970 have been corrected. Even back then I was convinced that nuclear power was the way to go to reduce soot emissions which were going to cause another ice age. The fission power would be a temporary step until fusion power came on line. Needless to say it wasn't long before I had a falling out with non-technophile environmentalists.

This year I won't have anything to do with earth day (and haven't for decades now). Based on the politics of the greens, they should be celebrating earth day on 20-April given that their views are quite homologous to the National Socialist environmental agenda. We know the end result of that particular experiment.

The most notable anniversary to celebrate that I marked this year was bicycle day on 19-April by rereading portions of The botany and chemistry of hallucinogens of which Albert Hofmann was one of the authors.

The most notable anniversary to celebrate that I marked this year was bicycle day on 19-April by rereading portions of The botany and chemistry of hallucinogens of which Albert Hofmann was one of the authors.

Thanks! That explains a few things.

Well, we can certianly see Russia is doing its bit for global warming...

Excellent shot of Magnitogors'k!

Built by slave labour during Stalin's First Five-Year Plan, the steel mills continue to endanger human health to this day!

Photo shot by National Geographic for their August 1993 story on Russia's painful transition period, which also included stories on Ukraine and Kazakhstan (which was NOT written by "zhurnalist" Borat BTW).

OT but related. another CTV.ca poll gone horribly wrong.

With Earth Day upon us, what are you thoughts on global warming?

Optimistic, we can stop it 29%
Pessimistic, we're too far gone 29%
I don't believe in it 42%

Now to be fair, the poll does show that 58% believe in global warming. Of course most of them also believe that if the Canadians who drive SUV's would switch to a more fuel efficient vehicle and if only Canada would abide by the Kyoto accord the world would be safe.

Hey my hometown Windsor,Ontario.

Hamilton on a good day. On a bad day you can't see that far.

This IS a celebration comerades of worker's republic-come-fedration-of-corporate-soviet-states !!

Today Chernobyl has only 10 half lives (24000 years) from full recovery and big welcome back to mother Russia, and the good news is what may be a shorter time with radioactivity has now reached ground water and this will hasten recovery for next great potato production.

Mean while mother Russia has gift of coal for heat home of worker hero and making electric. For this we thank 1600 worker martyrs who die in cola mine each year so other hero workers getting coal.

If we believed in God, he would surly bless our worker's paradise.

Hamilton does look like Lenin's country.
Weird eh?
Hamiltonians vote for Lenin's party too.

It's not earth day here in southern Alberta, we can't see the earth because of the 2 feet of snow covering it, thanks to global warming. I'm very afraid and will now go pray to the wind god to melt this snow, then I might go name those coyotes that eat my calves, Suzuki and Gore.

Reminds one of the CBC photoshopped Toronto smoke stacks a while back.

What is wrong with you people?
Those are smoke signals of peace in socialist paradise, ideologically developed by dictatorship of proletariat, led by communist comrades.

Happy earth day to you, comrade!

The photograph exudes equality and social justice from every pixel.

Those must be the 'working people' Jack Layton talks about so often.

Hmm, Leon Trotsky may not be such an enthusiastic well wisher on Lenin's birthday.

Like some Taliban enthusiasts, watch out for the NKVD wielding a pick axe!!

Cheers

Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht BGS, PDP, CFP

Commander in Chief

Frankenstein Battalion

2nd Squadron: Ulanen-(Lancers) Regiment Großherzog Friedrich von Baden(Rheinisches) Nr.7(Saarbrucken)

Knecht Rupprecht Division

Hans Corps

1st Saint Nicolaas Army

Army Group “True North”

No matter where you fall in the political spectrum... You have a reason to vomit today.

"[Bush] also gave Harper a verbal pat on the back for efforts to combat climate change, something the U.S. also is committed to doing, Bush said."

http://www.dose.ca/news/story.html?id=251406df-bbda-45aa-bfd0-37844fe93882

That photo reminds me of the winter I worked in the smelter at Thompson, Man.

"Hamilton on a good day. On a bad day you can't see that far."

I did see smoke like this in Hamilton - during the 2003 Road Cycling World Championship. It was at the end of the men's time trial when I was returning to the car. I even snapped a photo of it.

Looks like one of those MSM PhotoShopping jobs that makes the smoke look scarier.

The scary thing is that I think that this time the smoke is real.

Did you know that during WW1, Tsar Nicholas II of Russia's troops were sent into battle against the Germans with 6 bullets per day each? Did you know there were standing orders to the Officers to shoot any of their own retreating Soldiers?

Did you know that just prior to entering the War against Germany, the Tsar had been engaged in the disastrous Russo Japanese war of 1904/05 from which the Russian military had yet to recover? Did you also know that Nicholas and the Kaiser of Germany were cousins? Nothing like a little scrap amongst inbreds.

Did you also know that the Tsar's wife had great influence on him and Rasputin, affectionately known as the "Mad Monk" had great influence over her?

Did you also know that while Nicholas was sending Russian troops into battle with 6 bullets each, the economy was crumbling and massive amounts of people were on the brink of starvation? He was also one of the richest men on earth. By averaging, he is still considered today as the third richest person who ever lived.

Nicholas was considered a White Russian. A capitalist.

But you already knew all that. I can't imagine why anyone would revolt against that. Can you?

Hugger

How about a better story from 1917?

The miracle of Fatima told us to pray for the Russian people.

Some of us still are.

Yep, Stalin was definitely better choice compared to the Tsar. That revolution sure was a great success for the Russian people. The went from bad to worse. I wonder what would have happened if after overthrowing the Tsar they had chose capitalism and democracy.

I had a look at those pics - and being left-handed, was stopped in my tracks by the kids missing a forelimb. All of them are missing their left side!

To update Butterfield, "Pollution Increases: Poor, Minorities, and Left-handed Hardest Hit"

What are you rich right-handed bastards of the West going to do about the plight of my people?? We can barely operate can-openers, for chrissake!

"Nicholas was considered a White Russian. A capitalist."

Greg, did you know that TSAR Nicholas, was in fact a monarchist, King of one of the least industrialized powers to enter WW1, King of a country that had barely crawled out of the feudal ages?

Did you also know that mother Russia is no longer communist? Apparently communism failed miserably - Who'da guessed!

Here in Edmonton they held the 'celebration' last Sunday because, I suppose, it fell on the weekend. It also happened to be Adolph Hitler's birthday, which i though was rather comical. The faithful were forced to gather and bemoan global warming in the only heated pavilion on the site because of the minus 11 C temperature outside.
They don't really need to dress as clowns for events such as this.

Did you also know that mother Russia is no longer communist? Apparently communism failed miserably - Who'da guessed!

And Socialists eingthe mentally ill dolts that they are still think it'll work and are trying to shove it sown the West's neck now....

As a post script; I remember the prayers for Russia at the end of the mass years ago. I didn't know it was connected with Fatima, and I don't know if they still say them these days (not having attended mass fo decades) but I was surprised to discover that the prayers were not being said for the people of Russia suffering under communism, but rather for the 'conversion' of Russia from the Orthodox form of Christianity to Catholicism.

Never mind Greg, he's a product of western education. He can't help being ignorant and stupid. The comrads in the system produced him that way.

if after overthrowing the Tsar they had chose capitalism and democracy.
Posted by: lynnh at April 22, 2008 11:53 AM

How would you assess the system they have now? What words would you use? Capitalism, communism, socialism, social democracy, autocratic, totalitarian?

Hugger

You guys, that "smoke" you see in Hamilton? That's STEAM. From quenching. Dofasco downtown runs one of the cleanest steel mills in the entire world. There isn't any smoke. None.

I'm pretty sure Stelco doesn't even make steel in Hamilton anymore, they just have rolling mills. All the steel gets made out on Lake Erie. Again, zero smoke. The Hydro One coal plant in Nanticoke puts out a hell of a lot more/worse poo than Stelco.

Which is what makes me laugh when the greenies around here start whinging about "heavy industry". Their beloved Liberals are running one of the dirtiest coal-fired generators in Canada. Why? Because Liberals don't actually care a tinker's damn about the environment, they just talk about it a lot to keep the Morontonians happy.

If they cared, they'd have shut that wheezy thing and fixed Bruce and Darlington and Pickering nuke stations.

Warwick at April 22, 2008 12:47 PM

Whoa! The sheer weight of the intellectual ability that conceived this mighty thought has convinced me.

Thank you Dr.Gobbles.

Don't forget to take your bow before the minions. Altogether now, group headbob.

Hugger

Russia is in transition. The choices they make today will decide their tomorrow.
I do not keep up to date with Russian politics but they seem to be going two steps forward and one step back in both the free market economy and individual freedom.

They need to learn from the past to see what failed. Then took at which of the world's political systems work the best. Next move steadily towards these successful models. It might be US capitalism or European socialism. Either is superior to the failed path of communism.

Hey Hugger as long as you're telling tales why not complete the tale of the Russian revolution.

Did you know that Stallin and the Bolsheviks pressed rural farm laborers into sevice as revolutionary soldiers under threat to their families?

Did you know that the majority of the russian people did not support a bolshevik solution to maonarchy?

Did you know that the bolsheviks were financed by the richest bankers in London Newyork and Paris?

last of all, do you know where all this wealth the Romanovs had in tangible assets went after the revolution?? It certainly didn't get to the people because Bolshevik leaders were out negotiating loans with western Bankers to stave off post revolution famine.

Just where did the Romanov fortune end up?

Hint: You see the odd bit of Romanov art or jewelry show up at a London or Paris auction house from time to time...usually the seller of the piece is listed as "private". Same as the sources which claimed their asset accounts in foreign banks and brokerages.

Greg: Back to history class my boy ... the Czar was not a capitalist, by any definition. He was a monarchist ... king ... sovereign.

As to what Mother Russia is today ... she is in flux, somewhere between democracy - and totalitarianism. She is still digging out from her destructive history, which included the Czar followed by the most destructive murderous construct that humans have ever conceived ... communism.

Greg....any idea how many people the Bolsheviks killed? Any idea how many ordinary people were displaced by this "glorious revolution" and had their land and assets taken away? You are clearly and profoundly ignorant. Take it from the descendant of a Volga German.

Happy Dearth Day!

Today there will be no good news by order of the Church of AlGorism.

Greg,

Did you read your own post? It contained so many stupid comments that it could only come from the teaching of a university professor.

What was it? Sociology?

As for 6 bullets a day in WWI, I guess it worked so well that Stalin decided to expand on the program and sent one old WWI rifle for every 2 soldiers in WWII. He too, shot retreating soldiers. Neither the Tsar nor Stalin were capitalists.

"Nicholas was considered a White Russian. A capitalist." By who? The Communists? Give me a break. The Tsar wasn't a capitalist. He was a feudal monarch. Russia was the least industrialized place in Europe at that time. The Tsar, like most of the aristocracy in Europe then and today, looked down upon the Capitalist "merchant class" as crass money-grubbers. In fact, the Tsar's attitude toward capitalists wouldn’t have been much different than Lenin's.

The Tsar's fate would have been foreseen by any intelligent man after the French Revolution killed his kin in France. That he didn't is a testament to his isolated, naïve position. Both Louis and Nicholas were young, naïve, incompetent rulers who made life so hard for the average people they revolted. Capitalism had nothing to do with it.

As for the "third riches person who ever lived" this is such pathetic nonsense as to bugger belief. Tsar spent the nation into bankruptcy both through lavish spending on himself and foolish wars. But that didn't mean he was rich. It means he was stupid. I would buy that he could be the third most proliferate spenders in history if I hadn't heard of the two Habsburg dynasties (Spanish and Austrian) as well as the House of Saud, the House of Medici, the Vanderbilts and the Sultan of Brunei. OH! And let's not forget Louis and Marie Antoinette themselves!!

Your whole view on the matter is so clichés, so very campus that it's clear you have never once had an original thought.

Oh, and nice violation of Goodwin's law. Loser.

Before the revolution, the Ukraine was known as the bread basket of Europe.

During the forced collectivization and forced starvation of those who did not hand over their land to the Central Committee, millions of hard-working farmers died.

Not sure of the exact number, but it's out there somewhere.

Josef Stalin was responsible for a minimum 10 million deaths of the people he allegedly led. Some estimates range upwards of 30 million.

In the pre-WWII, Stalin signed a pact with fellow utopian/totalitarian, Adolf Hitler by which each was allowed to invade and take over administration of neighbouring countries.

Hitler reneged on the deal, creating even more misery and death.

Stalin, not content to slaughter millions of people who did not comply with his vision of a perfect society, started killing off his former allies who he suspected were trying to seize power from him.

Insanity is trying he same thing over and over again in the hope the outcome will be somehow different.

Marxism is a political philosophy based, one of whose main features is intolerance toward dissenting opinions, whose outcomes have demonstrated time and time again that ultimately the innocent pay for their objections with their lives.

There is no ‘correct way' to impose the philosophy. It is a poison to the human spirit and will be continue resisted everywhere by free people.

It is the very system to which ‘the road to hell is paved with good intentions' applies.

Need a modern-day example?

Look no further that what has happened in Zimbabwe under Robert Mugabe.

lynnh at April 22, 2008 1:09 PM

Well, at least you took an honest poke at an answer based on what you know.

Thank you.

I wanted to make you think about it for a few minutes particularly in consideration of your reference to Stalin. The intent of Stalin prior to WW2 is a study in itself and as we sit in 2008 it is easier to see the outcome of the effects of everything from WW1 through the revolution to the effect of Hitler breaking the agreements he made with Stalin. Anti Bolshevik sentiments as well. I should say, it's easier if a person tries to look at it with an open mind.

My main point is that Russia has been a country in transition for a long time, as is the case in many countries. They, of course still suffer from the stigma's of Cold War propagandists, therefore don't always get fair consideration.

They are no longer Communist, but still have influence from that era. They are not fully democratic, but more so than they ever were. So, in the end, where did the overthrow of the Tsar take them?

On the road to Democracy??

We are not democratic either with a 2 party system.

Hugger

Greg,

You know there's 5 parties in our national parliament? And just how would only having two parties count as not democratic?

"So, in the end, where did the overthrow of the Tsar take them?

On the road to Democracy??"

And if I went went east from calgary I'd get to Banff eventually, right?

Russia has gone from a thug Monarch to a thug communist to a thug ex-communist gangester state. Their road to democracy seems to have a dead end.

That is an interesting way to look at it, Greg.

If true then it is one heck of a trip to the destination called democracy.

Note to self: if lost, never ask a Russian for directions. :)

Whatever happened to the tzar and his kin? Oh, right, http://members.tripod.com/~Pharaoh30/index-13.html

Here's a film you may enjoy about the dubious nature of some green "solutions" such as carbon-offsetting.

***OHFISHWALL Birfday Gleetings to Comrade Lenin***

Deer All Small Dead Animals,

Tanks for all you do in honoring Comrade Lemon!
His great works is true inspiration to my Glorious Starving People's Army!
In shorts- Small dead Animals WOKS!!!

Ruv Yoo Looong Time!
Great Reader, KIM Jong IL
Pyongyang, California 90210

Warwick at April 22, 2008 1:52 PM

I could only read bits of your stuff, as you venture into revisionist history and cherry picking.

Where do you suppose the Soviets learned that trick of shooting their own?

Now, as you all go off on your individual rants and versions of History and definitions, none of you address the question and point of my post, which was on the topic of Lenin.

Considering the political, economic, historical and military situation that existed in Russia just prior to the Revolution and rise of Lenin, can you understand why the people revolted against the Tsar?

Simple enough question isn't it?

As for the rest of "did I knows", yes I did and a whole lot more.

Here's a question for the would be scholars and political scientists. What is the best thing the founders of the new Russian Federation did for the future of the country when the Soviet Union dissolved?

Oh, and Warwick, I prefer discussion with someone who writes something worth reading so there is no reason for you to respond. Look at the link below. Look for number 3 on the list.

Wealthy historical figures 2008

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealthy_historical_figures_2008

Hugger

It is unfortunate for the Russian people that their revolution was not followed by founding fathers like the US. Communism was not the only other alternative. There was lots of democratic success stories at that time. I can understand the need for revolution but not the choice to replace it with communism.

Beats hanging out on some leftwing blog having a circle jerk eh Greg

Beats hanging out on some leftwing blog having a circle jerk eh Greg
Posted by: bob at April 22, 2008 3:07 PM

Head bobbing bores the living sh*t out of me. Does that answer your question, bob??

Hugger

Note to self: if lost, never ask a Russian for directions. :)
Posted by: lynnh at April 22, 2008 2:26 PM

Oakalie doakalie...

Here's the thing. If you want to understand Russia and it's History you have to understand the tremendous dynamics involved. Particularly in respect to race, language, culture, religion and tribal considerations.

Hugger

"The ranking process is done by the percentage of the total GDP of the nation they live in."

Put Bill Gates in the Sudan and see what happens to that ranking.

What they have produced is a relative ranking based on the wealth of the society. The guestimate isn't actually valid.

"Where do you suppose the Soviets learned that trick of shooting their own?"

I believe I addressed that in my response. Go re-read.

"As for 6 bullets a day in WWI, I guess it worked so well that Stalin decided to expand on the program "

"...can you understand why the people revolted against the Tsar?"

I addressed that, too.

"Both Louis [France] and Nicholas were young, naïve, incompetent rulers who made life so hard for the average people they revolted. Capitalism had nothing to do with it."

It's your assertion that capitalism had anything to do with it I objected to - not the idea that the Tsar wasn't worthy of a bullet (although there's no need to have shot his children - but the communists did a lot of that sort of thing.)

Aside from agreeing that the Tsar brought his fate upon himself, I fail to see how your original comment excuses the actions of Soviet Communism in any area of concern. That was your point, right? That the Tsar was bad so the Soviets were justified in what they did? Else why post it?

My point is that Stalin killed more people than anyone but Mao (fellow commie but not friend) and did far more damage to Russia than did the Tsar.

Did you know Greg that the average amount of land owned by a farmer in Poland was 2 sections before the Russians took over the land, and did you know that each farmer was given 6 acres of land of their own and had to farm the other 1268 acres for the state, and did you know Greg that the farmers grew more on that 6 acres of their own land than they did on the 1268 acres of communist land. And did you know that this provered pride of ownership and only a fool would work for the state. And did you know this is what communism is all about, P.S. tell your Prof.

Hey Greg:

This is what I understand about Russian history.

My grandfather, a parliamentarian in the Tsarist government, was exiled to Siberia where he starved to death.

My father was of Cossack ancestry ... more enemy of the people.

Why is it that the Ukraine was once the breadbasket of Europe (not just Russia, but Europe) and in less that two decades was facing widespread starvation?

How could anybody in their right mind wish that type of intolerance, death of innocents and starvation on anybody?

May I suggest you apply to refugee status to, oh, North Korea. I'm sure your comrades will welcome you there.

Hugger: The Czar was a simpleton who wanted to be part of greater Europe by building glorious structures ... but his people suffered. The Bolsheviks tossed him and his supporters out, and unleashed hell on earth. The Bolsheviks increased the suffering of Russians (if body-counts can be used as a measure) and in later decades exported the suffering globally. But of course, to socialists, body-counts don't matter as long as the end result is the monolithic collective that “progressive” wet-dreams are made of.

No amount of suffering caused by the Czar can justify what the Bolsheviks did ... in any context ... in any era ... in any time. They simply industrialized suffering and made it possible to murder more people than good'ol Nick would've ever imagined. And most tragically, they exported their poison globally so successfully that we are still dealing with it today. Everything … literally everything, that communists touch turns to mould.

Lenin turned something bad into something worse. He made dog shit from dirt.

Guess who's making money out of the "crass commercialism" of "green": http://homerenovationguide.com/solution/flooring-calgary.htm.

Did you also know that while Nicholas was sending Russian troops into battle with 6 bullets each, the economy was crumbling and massive amounts of people were on the brink of starvation? He was also one of the richest men on earth. By averaging, he is still considered today as the third richest person who ever lived.

Greg :

Sounds like a heck of a deal compared to Stalin’s army. Half the troops where only issued guns. The other half where told to pick weapons from there fallen comrades. Or Nazi soldiers.

First they where feed capacious amounts of vodka, told to rush the enemy head on. If you turned back Stalin NKVD was there with machine guns to kill any would be stragglers or those trying to come back to there lines. Some times even falling was an excuse to kill there own. The factories where run on slave labor with people falsely charged every week for sabotage just to keep em on there toes.

Russia has always been more the image of Ivan the terrible than any Western Nation. It’ has a lot to do being under Islamic rule for over hundreds of years, while still using serfs till the 20th century. The aristocracy replaced by a Soviet one, has always held power there. The criminal element the same. Half of Russia’s markets have always been black. Especially after 7 million Ukrainians where purposely starved to end private farms. In Edmonton along with the Jewish holocaust shrine we have one for them as well.

So Greg I just have to say for your apologetics on communism & of real capitalism:

Too bad silliness isn't agonizing.

Further to the above post: click "flooring and carpets".

Further to my post: click "flooring and carpets".

lynnh - You are correct in assuming that the Russian people wanted Democracy when they demanded the resignation of Czar Nicolas II. For about 8 months Russia was the most democratic nation in the world. Prince Lyvov ( a Liberal in the true meaning of liberal) was nominated as the Premier of the Duma and Kerensky was voted head of the Provisional government. All the people in the Empire were allowed to vote (including women). Kerensky was fairly left (a few degrees right of the Puffins/Dippers of Canada). Kerensky was undermined by the fanatical left wing people who wanted Global Communism (Lenin). The Germans sent Lenin to Russia in a closed train car to undermine Kerensky's efforts to hold out against the Axis on the Eastern Front. Lenin already had a network of agents and they infiltrated the lower ranks in the army and navy; telling soldiers that their enemy was the bourgeois middle class and the aristocrats; not the Axis soldiers). The army was pretty well thinned out of officers by the time Kerensky hit the scene and Russia did not have any effective communication/transport lines to the Eastern Front. Soldiers were starving in the trenches and they did not have ammunition - but there was plenty of ammo and food in stranded railway cars in St. Pertesburg and Moscow.

A great Canadian named Joe Boyle sorted out the railroad mess for them and got supplies to the front. Joe Boyle saved millions of Russians from starvation. Sadly, Joe was too late to save the Russian people from Lenin. The soldiers were already infected with the Global Communism virus the Bolsheviks were spreading - they never even considered that they were going to be the only kid on the block with Communism - they planned for the whole world to buy into 'state slavery'. The Czar had failed to treat Russian soldiers with any kind of respect for his humanity so they were angry and resentful - izzy targets for a group of sleaze bags who promised them land and peace.

Contrary to what most people believe, Russia was becoming a super power before WWI. There was a big middle class of tradesmen, industrialists, and merchants that had emerged in Russia. The Czar's education Min was Michael Ignatieff's ( eggie sitting side Deyawn in the Canadian House of Commons) grandfather and this man had made it mandatory for all children to attend school. Russia had one of the highest literacy, per capita, rates in the world.

The Czar had a very stable currency - the Rouble was based on the Gold Standard and the Czar refused to abandon the gold standard (that was perhaps the reason for the support of the Big Banks for Lenin). Russia was looking to a bright future but it was drawn down by a shallow, people pleasing, mealy mouthed Czar and a fanatical mother (his wife) who yearned to 'save' her very ill son. She found a 'mad monk' named Rasputin who seemed the savior of her son. The Czarina put all her eggs in the Rasputin basket and became his 'yes lady'; she bitterly controlled her Czar husband and the three fools lost everything!! The Russian people lost too, they did not realize how weak the country was without a reliable military to keep order.

Just a footnote in History perhaps but it is noteworthy that it was illegal to possess firearms for personal use, in Russia. The average person did not own or know how to operate a gun - they were a push over for armed thugs flying the Red flag of blood.

The begging question, IMO is: 'How did the Puffins/Dippers gain so much power in a free, prosperous, at peace nation like Canada?'

We have no right to mock the Russian people at the turn of the century, IMO. Some Canadians bought the clap trap of the Bolsheviks without the terrible conditions the Russians were faced with - we should hang our heads in shame.

WRT Huggers history lesson:

I am shocked! I have heard a lot of BS from Leftards(people like you) and from Knucledraggers(most of us) but you post is the most twisted simplistic misrepresentation of the facts I've heard. I am sure that if your father or Grandfather read you post they would be ashamed and appalled at your ridicules post.

bartinsky at April 22, 2008 3:16 PM

Just popping in to see if there were any interesting responses, and this one caught my eye. Now, like the rest you have gone completely off the original question and point, but what interested me was the idea of Polish farmers and the 6 acres.

What came to mind is the plight of our own farmers. Saskatchewan for example, having suffered through the enormity of the lowest grain prices in recent history for a period of what, some 50 odd years?

I got thinking about the farmers who have been forced out, the young ones who work off farm and often need their wife to do so also just to survive and keep the farm. Then theres the history of hog and beef farming too. Not dissimilar.

So, I wonder if these poor souls in Poland you refer to where a lot worse off?

I know grain prices have improved, and I'm glad they have. But who owns and or controls the bulk of the grain producing land now? How much profit is made by commodity traders in relation to small to medium sized farmers?

Why was Saskatchewan a have not province for so long?

Hugger

And for those who are still chewing that bone I threw them, ponder this.

What was a Monarchy if not the ultimate form of Capitalism?

The didn't even have to bribe a lot of people to enact plans and programs. Just make up laws, exercise rule of law to suit, install select bureaucrats, play ball with the Church and make money money money!

A Capitalists dream. Nowadays, they finance political campaigns. The smart ones have money on both horses. And think, when they have served their purpose, they even get to keep their head. How civil of us wot??

Hugger.

File under Irony: Here in Toronto today the downtown is inundated with people wearing fresh new T-shirts with the inscription Toronto Tourism - Earth Day - or something to that effect.

According to a googled press release, they are also planting trees. Let's hope they plant enough trees to offset the effects of manufacturing and transporting the T-shirts.

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/April2008/18/c7191.html

No amount of suffering caused by the Czar can justify what the Bolsheviks did ... in any context

Paul at April 22, 2008 3:35 PM..

Ok Paul, now you too are off the mark on the original question but, you are a little closer with the statement above. NO ONE owns a crystal ball. NO ONE can predict where circumstances will lead for certain. Even the Bolsheviks and those who supported them.

Most of the rest of the posts I have glanced at want to go off rambling about what happened after the fact too. We know what happened after the fact, its the circumstances at the time just before the Revolution I focused on. Any one who can't stand to address the truth of humanity, isn't adding a lick to the discussion I initiated for them to tax their thinking power with.

They are not familiar with the dynamics and long term History of Russia either. Much too much for some minds.

I'll throw in another consideration. Up the ante so to speak. Why were the Americans actively recruiting Nazi's after the war, sheltering them and employing them? What effect did the race within the Western Allies to develop superior Military capabilities have on the psyche of a Stalin considering the betrayal of Hitler and subsequent events?

Hugger

Hugger: I'm not too sure what you are getting at here. Are you saying that left wing totalitarianism is better than right wing totalitarianism? In that case they are identical. Just as a word of advice from a longtime historian: When you want to research history at least stick to Britannica or published authors on given subject matter. Wiki is ONLY good for reading about who has died recently.

Russia has always been more the image of Ivan the terrible than any Western Nation. It’ has a lot to do being under Islamic rule for over hundreds of years, while still using serfs till the 20th century. The aristocracy replaced by a Soviet one, has always held power there. The criminal element the same.

Posted by: Revnant Dream at April 22, 2008 3:55 PM

You are getting warm, but you are not there yet. I don't think the Islamic factor is especially significant in the way you put it though.

And I won't insult you. I'll tell you to try harder. It's what a good teacher does. Err...Professor..Lol

Hugger.

If you ever find one, hugger, please send them our way. However with college campuses the way they are today, that should be immensely difficult, as there are likely very few conservative minds left in college history departments.

Dear Free,

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

A moment of your time please, post something.

Hugger

Come now Comrades, Let us stop fighting and go out and roll in the snow while celebrating glorious Earth Day!

That will look clean compared to the environmental rape that will occur with the oil sands in AB.

Wow...this is one of the most interesting threads I have read in a while.

Un-intended comedy from someone who thinks he is in the know, some interesting point & counter-points referencing history and all of it due to a picture posted by Kate ambiguously aka cleverly.

I'm not a history professor, but Hugger is "entertaining" aka not clever.

Keep it up. I'm enjoying the fray. Thanks Kate for letting this run.

Greg, if we got of the Communist Wheat Board there would be a lot less Hutterite colonies, which are communists under our feet, consuming free healthcare and not supporting small towns, and a lot less farmers leaving the farms here in Alberta and Sask. How can one keep going when in Minot ND they were getting 20 dolars a bushel for durum when our farmers were taking what 7 to nine at the time, easy to see why. Hutterites go to town every weekend and sell their wares for cash dollars nd just buy more land out from under the rest of us, who couldn't with 40 slaves per colony, how long would I last paying my workers 5 dollars a month, well thats what a hut gets plus 2 cases a beer a year. Yea we charge around the world fighting communism but let it run rampant under our own feet. As Tim Ball said, there are no farms in the city but there will be no cities without farms.

"Why was Saskatchewan a have not province for so long?
Hugger"

Short and sweet...
N
D
P

Y'know, Hugger, I knew you were a fool. Your volume alone would convince. But I didn't know you were quite that much of a loon.

Tsar Nicholas was a monarchist. Under monarchism, everything of value belongs to the Realm; as a practical matter, assets are managed by the Nobility, with the monarch as chief Noble. By contrast, under communism everything of value belongs to the People; as a practical matter, assets are managed by the Cadre (or Vanguard of the Proletariat), with the Central Committee at the head of the Cadre. You do see the vital and important difference, don't you? --I don't, and neither have any of the legions of professedly socialist "leaders" that have come along over the last century and a half.

Once upon a time there were two strains of Socialist: the communists, exemplified by Marx (who more nearly codified than originated the doctrine), and the Fabians. Fabians can more properly be thought of as usurpers; they don't intend to change the structure, only replace its members with their own people, who promise (cross their hearts) to be Good and Kind Rulers. Marx and the communists hated them. Communism, on the other hand, can be thought of as "liberal", at least in a negative sense -- they think of individual rights as a snare and a deceit placed before the Proletariat to fool them into thinking they're getting somewhere. It is, however, strongly egalitarian, even egalist.

The advance Ulyanov, and the surrounding thinkers, made was to introduce the Cadre, or Vanguard of the Proletariat -- you, in fact. The Cadre are better educated and more intelligent than the common ruck, thus are fit to manage the resources belonging to the People and lead the Proletariat to True Socialism. Some animals are, after all, more equal than others, right? And, having reintroduced the concept of Nobility to what was once an egalitarian philosophy, they turned their hands to taking over Fabianism by changing all the nouns.

You aren't a socialist. You're a wannabee Noble, anxious to establish your existential superiority to the mere common ruck and thereby gain a post managing real resources in the New World Order. You deserve the same respect, and fate, as Pyotr Potemkin.

Regards,
Ric

Will people stop writing "did you know", Greg knows ALL!
C'mon, let's all gather around the fire, Greg's got a story to bestow upon us.
I'm just happy that he stumbled upon this wretched, evil right wing site so he can enlighten us.

"if we got of the Communist Wheat Board there would be a lot less Hutterite colonies, which are communists under our feet, consuming free healthcare and not supporting small towns"
bartinsky

While I agree with you a demise or competition with the Wheat Board would be in the best interest of farmers, characterizing the Hutterites as Communists isn't quite right. On the surface they certainly portray themselves as utopian commune's who share everything, but in reality they are some of the best entreprenuers and shameless capitalists I have ever engaged. As far as suggesting they don't contribute to towns, I would just say they contribute a lot locally, give donations to local hospitals, generally help their neighbors (assuming the neighbor isn't negative towards them)and pay lots of taxes (in some cases disproportionate/person vs services offered by the municipality in some regions due to their larger land holdings) I think you should take a case of beer to your nearest colony every week for a couple months and see how wrong you might be. It's okay to be resentful of their success as they aren't perfect either and make plenty of mistakes, but they certainly aren't communists like a Soviet communist.

Would you guys stop feeding this freakin' troll? Its probably a sock puppet for one of the other idiots already banned here.

Hit "ignore" and move on.

I did not know that it was the the ruskies that came up with the phrase 'getting smoked'.

I really did not know that.

Thanks Kate.

You aren't a socialist. You're a wannabee Noble,
Regards,
Ric
Posted by: Ric Locke at April 22, 2008 9:12 PM

And you are a codswallop anxious to redeem himself after making a fool of himself on this forum recently. You are still at it.

Here, look at this gem; Ric says, "Under monarchism, everything of value belongs to the Realm; as a practical matter, assets are managed by the Nobility, with the monarch as chief Noble. By contrast, under communism everything of value belongs to the People; as a practical matter, assets are managed by the Cadre"

Who was comparing Monarchy's to Communism Ric???

Huh Ric???

If you are going to salivate Ric, wear a bib.

Hugger

I'm just happy that he stumbled upon this wretched, evil right wing site so he can enlighten us.
Posted by: multirec at April 22, 2008 9:23 PM

Pleased to be of service. Would you like an application for my fan club?

Hugger

I do find it interesting how so many of you are so offended when someone challenges your pre conceived notions. A little research and an open mind would do many of you a lot of good.

So, compare this post; Greg at April 22, 2008 11:32 AM

to this post;Jema54 at April 22, 2008 4:15 PM

Now my original point; Can you understand why anyone would revolt against that?

How many answered that? How many went off on great rants about Stalin and such? No one even tried to answer the question I posed on what effect the Western countries quest for military superiority may have had on the psyche of Stalin or why did the US recruit ex Nazi's. Naw, you would rather name call and demean and show your wooden cross to the messenger of Truth.

Sucks to be you.

There were some good posts from inquiring minds and I thought the brief discussion on the Hutterites interesting and representative of both sides and levels of understanding. It's a topic of discussion that could yield greater understanding of not only people of the world, but those who live right here in our own country.

Now I'm no expert on the Hutterites, and everything I know I received second hand, a lot like studying History. My main source did a lot of business with many colonies and spent a great deal of time with many of them on a personal level.

I heard of how they maintained their traditions and religion yet blended that with modern technology. Also how they were non violent, extremely well organized and structured and how they continued to prosper. Apparently they have a boss or overseer for every important aspect of their operations i.e. money boss, dairy boss, hog boss, (not boss hog) etc. Many live in row type housing and have communal kitchens, laundries etc. and share things like pick up trucks, one truck to four households.

One very important aspect that wasn't mentioned is that they are not captives. They can leave the Colony and many do. They can also return later. When my brother was operating a hog facility in Alberta the only people he had work there, that worked out well were a Hutterite who had left his Colony and an Australian.

Hugger

Well Hugger you are almost sounding lucid now re: the Hutterites. You seemed to spin your thoughts of it into a tie in to success of communism in action, but you are off the mark again.

Let me explain:
- they are not captives yes, but like many communist societies families can be and are oppressed by those with the power. The bosses, secretaries and faith leader (minister) are voted in by the elders. If a family group has most of the votes they can use their power wisely or poorly depending on the integrity of the leadership. The Manitoba sects presently have a feud and split right across family lines, which is tearing the very fabric of faith & family, all due to the misuse of power on some colonies due to ideology and grudge. Families on both sides suffer greatly and privately grieve and fear. If you have no power you are open to being lead by fear...sounds like the Soviet Union to me. Now having said that, there is excellent leadership as well but it is waiting for their chance to "change" for the better like the new Russia emerged by standing up and just saying no when the timing is right. I Pray for them all that it all goes well.
- the system promotes a level of corruption from all levels; the little people (non-leading families) have too little to so find ways to have; the power people (Bosses, Secretaries, Minister) sometimes in the bad cases have too much access to Worldly things, they say "do what I say", but themselves carry-on in just the ways they preach against creating a dicotomy and dissent with the overall members. Once again this smacks of the Soviet Union. Once again having said this I would suggest there is good leadership that has learned to balance the overt-evils versus the necessary-evils in order to maintain harmony; but again not always.
- They can be extremely poorly managed, in-efficient and neglectful in their operations due to the dicotomy's and jealousys created by poor leadership and due to the "pretend to pay me and I pretend to work mentality" that festers in oppressive communism much like again...the Soviet Union. Having said that, again while their is too often this effect on colonies, clever leadership keeps a lid on overt-worldliness vs covert-capitilism.

Having said all of the above, I say there are good Hutterites and bad Hutterites, just like in the outside worldly world. They are not perfect, neither are we; but I get to escape their world everyday when I return home to my family, free from any injustice my system protects me against (Not including the Human Rights Commission of course). They are my friends and I wish them well above all, as generally as a people they are good people, but with a very difficult choice in life.

Is it any conisidand that EARTH DAY happens on LENINS BIRTHDAY?

Hugger: Why dont you go live with a hutterite colony for a year, then come back and tell us about this. You know not what you are talking about here bub.

You seemed to spin your thoughts of it into a tie in to success of communism in action, but you are off the mark again.

Posted by: sling at April 23, 2008 9:18 AM

Before I even get to the body of your post, I already see the problem many here have. Attaching bias to words that were objective observations. Searching for hidden meaning that isn't there. I wasn't espousing theories.

I wonder what the Hutterites social stats are regarding things like drug problems, alcoholism, divorce rates, abandoned children, single parent families, and wholesale abortion? I wonder what percentage of Hutterites are incarcerated in provincial jails and federal prisons?

You said; "If a family group has most of the votes they can use their power wisely or poorly depending on the integrity of the leadership."

Now that sounds eerily like our parliamentary system.

You said; "- the system promotes a level of corruption from all levels; the little people (non-leading families) have too little to so find ways to have; the power people (Bosses, Secretaries, Minister) sometimes in the bad cases have too much access to Worldly things, they say "do what I say", but themselves carry-on in just the ways they preach against creating a dicotomy and dissent with the overall members.

Does this not also apply in general society? Why do we hear of one scandal after another? One excess after another? What is ever accomplished to address this? Speaking of excesses, as

Much of the rest you speak of is the human condition, and can be applied universally. Some other things that are universal are jealousy, tribalism, and bigotry. My main source told me that Hutterites commonly experience these things from local society.

You mention returning home to the protection your/our system affords you. Do you work for the Hutterites and if so, doing what?

Lucidity is a matter of perspective. Perspective is derived from knowledge. Knowledge is acquired by seeking it and having an open and analytical mind.

Hugger

Sorry for making that leap Hugger. Your previous posts a led one into the next with your ideology.

As far the Hutterites are concerned; some beliefs of theirs are:

- not to drag outsiders into their problems
- gossip is a sin
- your word is who you are

And in keeping with what I mentioned above. They are my friends, my job is to build bridges.

That is my lucid prespective derived from knowledge aquired by my open seeking with my analytical mind.

They are my friends, my job is to build bridges.

Posted by: Sling at April 23, 2008 6:06 PM

Building bridges is an admirable profession. Especially challenging when its between different peoples.

Hugger

The iron mines of Krivoy Rog